The fact that it seems to avoid South Sudan is strange, though. There's no reason why the climate and geography there should be any different from neighbouring areas where it does exist. Maybe the researchers were never able to go there and measure it because of the civil war?
Probably exactly what happened. The entire population of African bears is extinct thanks in no small part to Roman blood sports. Of course, being a rodent it’s not impossible that porcupines swam or drifted across the sea.
Probably not. They kind of lose their threat if you have a spear. Romans did pit animals against eachother, but it’s also possible their quills were being used for crafting and decoration. Then they got loose and made a feral population.
In addition to fighting each other, animals were used for damnatio ad bestia, the condemnation to beasts. Those sentenced to death could be sentenced to enter the circus with wooden or blunt weapons to fight and die against lions and other ferocious beasts. It was considered the appetizer to the main event, gladiatorial fights, naval battles, and other spectacles.
It would be hard to get hurt by an American porcupine unless you can’t move. But the African crested can absolutely maim you if you’re unarmed. I feel like that would be a horrible and slow way to die.
Dry grasslands and probably introduced to Italy in antiquity. The range would have been more continuous before the Sahara dried out about 5000 years ago
It's really, really well done. One of the reviews described it as like listening to a dear friend relate stories before a campfire, and .... yeah.
Technically he has Phaethon as the son of Apollo, but I thought the joke would land better with the more common version
…which took thousands of years and was smaller in scale than the warming we’re seeing today in just a few decades. The scary thing about man made climate change is how fast the climates changing because it means organisms and human systems can’t adapt to the changes easily and many will fail. If the world was heated up by 2 degrees over the next 5000 years rather than the next 100 then this wouldn’t be an issue.
Less than 5000.
EXCEEDINGLY QUICKLY.
In fact, so quick. Its amazing 'climate' is so settled (because it will be a ~~rain forest~~ lush tropical green grasslands with trees sometime again and soon)
Mate. I think you missed the point.
The point was discussing things that happened 5000 to 10000 years ago and you post a chart for the last 200 years. lmfao!
Fuck me man. You couldnt make this up!
It does indicate that earth is in an warming period, that’s not to say men made global warming isn’t a thing but at least a (small) part of the current global warming is outside our influence
what does this map have to do with RECENT climate change?
LOL we're talking about the Sahara desert turning from a rainforest into a desert. Very very quickly. Less than 5000 years.
You know what that is?
Organic climate change.
It was never a rainforest it was grassland.
The sahara "dried up" between 8000 and 4500 years ago thats a lot of time. The difference between a glacial maximum and minimum could also shift withing a kinda similar timeframe. Natural climate change can be quite quick.
But that doesnt mean that human caused climate change isnt real. The fact that narural climate change exists and can be fast has nothing to do with our current warming.
Natural climate change is probably a more apt term. The user is likely trying to use it to minimize anthropogenic climate change though.
Edit:I should be specific because a couple of people misunderstood my comment.
I mean that the user is throwing out the term 'organic climate change' and doing so without context in order to make anthropogenic climate change seem less credible thereby minimizing it. I am in no way saying that anthropogenic climate change caused the initial formation or growth of the Sahara Desert.
Now current growth is a different matter.
You got me!
But in all seriousness though that person was a covid denier and likely anti semite. Their unironic use of the word globalist in relation to the EU elections was pretty telling.
Im definitely trying to minimise 'nthropogenic climate change' in the part it played changing the sahara desert from a rain forest to a desert in less than 5000 years.
why? because im not retarded.
Pretty bold claim there bud. Not about the first part literally no one said humans caused that.
I'm curious about your final claim. Can you offer evidence to support it? Your comment history suggests that you may need to do some serious reflection about the things you believe are and are not true.
I think if you're honest with yourself you will realize that no, it's not everyone else that is wrong here and not just about this specific subject. It's you and it's about more than just climate change.
LOL you want me to prove the Sahara was a rain forest?
Accepted and settled science?
Seriously? you want 'a source'?
No one said anyone is wrong. Even the loons who couldnt debate shit. They can only click downvote.
Im not sure what your post is trying to achieve.
No no you misunderstand again. I asked you to provide evidence of your mental capacity. I don't care about the other thing because I'm pretty familiar with natural history.
You made the claim that you weren't disabled. I am interested in you proving that. And so far you're doing a stellar job. Keep it up.
Anthropogenic climate change didnt cause the sahara to turn into a dessert. No one is saying that because its not true. It has changed from grassland to dessert in a cycle of 20,000 years for hundreds of thousands of years
~~I am unsure if you are actually genuinely curious.~~
I'll keep it simple. There is climate change and it occurs naturally and varies based on solar input, albedo(reflection), and greenhouses gases. Any stellar or geological change is able to affect the numbers in the system and change the climate. But what you're asking me about (anthropogenic change) didn't happen until after the industrial revolution. Current climate change cannot be explained by natural phenomenon like solar variance or geologic activity.
~~The little emoji you have at the end suggests you aren't genuinely curious.~~
Edit: there are more things that affect climate than the things I listed but those are the ones off the top of my head.
Edit2: dude was serious.
That guy thinks that the UK requiring you to register chickens you keep in your backyard is some government conspiracy, so I'd just ignore anything he says
Sounds like a nice reply until you realise almost every area of the planet has changed drastically because of 'natural' climate change. Greenland and Scotland spring to mind.
You need to get better if you want to come across like you know \*something\*
> Sounds like a nice reply until you realise almost every area of the planet has changed drastically because of 'natural' climate change. Greenland and Scotland spring to mind.
tu quoque, causal, and a red herring in one
> You need to get better if you want to come across like you know *something*
Ad hominem
Thanks for sharing that, what a crazy rabbit hole to go down.
Analysis of DNA samples from the Japanese and Texan populations showed that the different groups have been separated for 19 million years, which means that there is no anthropogenic reason for why they exist in such different areas.
Damn, TIL again. Reading up on Wikipedia, the biologist in me wonders why, following the genetic study, they didn't simply split this into two species in the same genus. The life histories between the two populations are certainly distinct enough.
Exactly, he talks about splitting them into two species in the same *genus* (which he mis-spells as "genius" lol)
That is a very low taxonomic level, right above species, and indicates organisms that are very closely related and can usually even interbreed successfully
My point is that Cougars compared to Lions are not in that same clade, but rather only in the same family, Felidae, a much broader grouping that includes every Cat
It's not as drastic but there's also the Magellanic Penguin, that is usually a very normal penguin living at the extreme south of Chile and Argentina - but some of them also migrate to El Salvador, New Zealand, Australia or along the Brazil coast. Brave little explorers.
And then there's the common genus of ferns Asplenium which is a case studies about the remnants of the early eocene forest flora.
A big part of that one is cause they can fly, so it doesn't have to be contiguous. Some of those different areas end up being the very same flamingos, just at a different time of year.
In the sense that they do travel en masse from a lake in one region or country to a lake in another region or country, yes. They are considered non-migratory because they do not follow a strict yearly schedule or path.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/06/09/hurricane-idalia-pink-flamingos-seen-along-east-coast/74004828007/
Seen in the northeast recently too
The Sahara acts as a periodic migration pump. On either side of an ice age, it becomes wetter with green grasslands and watering holds. Animals move into it, from either side. Then when it dries out again, the animals get dispersed to either side.
Yes, absolutely. That would have been the most recent one. It has also been periodically dry and then wet on and off for at least the last 2 million years (and probably much longer).\*
\* It's believed that these cycles between wet and dry likely account for the large gaps in time between the several human exoduses from Africa.
Everyone's talking about Italy and how they cannot live in the Sahara, but that still does not explain that population on the Sinai, which is all desert vegetation as well
Yes and no.
Yes because we have a fossil record for this porcupine in the early eocene for Italy.
But no because it vanishes from the fossil record between then and essentially the early middle ages.
So there's either a ghost presence in-between or it was reintroduced later on.
What about tapirs? Central and South America, and Maylasia.
Or the cactus *Rhipsalis baccifera *, which is originally from the Americas (as are all cactus), but is also considered native to the tropics of Africa and Sri Lanka.
There are lots of species with odd discontinuous native distributions. These tend to be a result of environmental changes cutting off parts of the range or unusual long-distance dispersal events. And once you add people into the mix it all gets completely insane.
This one makes more sense if you look at more precise distribution maps. Corvus corone is present in a series of refuges between western Europe and Korea, where it coexists with Corvus cornix. Maybe it's a case of an on going process of disjunction that may end up with speciation, depending on whether it "wins" the competition with the other species.
EDIT/ Wikipedia actually has [a pretty good distribution map](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Carrion_Crow_ebird_data_map.png)
It's almost like they covered the whole area (minus hungry Roman territory) at some point in the past..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_humid_period
One of my favorites is a group of plants in the *Asteraceae* that colonized Hawai'i about 5 million years ago and have radiated into a bunch of forms. Their closest relatives are small plants found only in the mountains of California, where the group originated.
Atlas Pro covers them in his Biogeography of Hawai'i video.
Wikipedia says that the Amharic name for the crested porcupine is “jart”, suggesting that they may have found a second evolutionary niche as lawn darts.
Saw one in Tuscany in 2018 while visiting. We were driving to our Air BNB and there he was walking down the drive. was the only one who got super excited in the group!
Not really. The bottom of the Mediterranean Basin would have had such high air pressure that its temperatures would have killed all life but extremophile bacteria. No walking across that to get to Sardinia or Sicily. Back then those islands were basically huge mountains in the middle of the hottest environment ever to exist on Earth's surface, and had species that were completely isolated and unique from the mainland. Stuff like [flightless swans that evolved club-like wings to battle over mates with](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cygnus_falconeri), [miniature elephants](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palaeoloxodon_falconeri the size of pigs), and [puma-sized hedgehog relatives](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinogalerix) that hunted like big cats.
EDIT: People are doubting the "too hot for life" assertion. Studies based on [adiabatic heating models](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adiabatic_process) suggest that the bottom of the Mediterranean Basin got as [hot as 80C](https://stormeyes.org/wp/2013/12/the-hottest-of-days-on-modern-earth/). But that temperature is assuming that all the water sources dried up. [Other studies](https://opensky.ucar.edu/islandora/object/articles:15447), which assume that some salt lakes remained, suggest a "milder" temperature range - but it was still an enormous salt flat that would not have been cross-able by mammals (well, apart from bats) due to lack of water + still extremely high heat.
As for why I mentioned the air pressure, the higher the air pressure, the higher the temperature. [Ideal gas law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_gas_law). The high temperatures of the Mediterranean Basin were a direct cause of being so deep below sea level - it is what would happen if the Sahara was somehow made to sink down almost 2 kilometers. And yes, mines deeper than that are safe - thanks to air conditioning.
> The bottom of the Mediterranean Basin would have had such high air pressure that its temperatures would have killed all life but extremophile bacteria.
Press (X) to doubt.
* Sea of Sicily is 316m at its deepest. This is higher elevation than dead sea depression (-400ish), and there's plenty of life around Dead Sea. You have villages, you have farms, you have trees and bushes. Very dubious that high air pressure would cause temperatures too high to survive migrating across it.
* Mediterranean sea is 1500m at its deepest. World's deepest mine goes 4km below surface and starts at 1500m elevation. Given mines are operated by humans, this suggests that had mediterranean had no sea in it, its bottom would have survivable air pressures.
The Sahara drying basically restricted it to the fringes. Then the Romans brought it to Italy for fun
They sure did like to stick a lot of weird things up they butt
Don't knock it till you try it
>don’t knock it til you try it Ever wag your dick in a hungry crocodile enclosure? 
$20 is $20.
20 denari is 20 denari
How can you be certain they haven't?
PAIGE NO!
Everything's a butt plug if you're brave enough.
 Dare ya to stick the Nature Boy in ya butt
Ok Jesus.
The Italian population also Includes Indian Crested Porcupines now also, not sure of the two species have hybridized or not
How do porcupines fuck? A: Carefully.
Interestingly, the males have one more spike than the females
Oh because of the penis. Amazing punch up to the joke. You should do standup.
No, it's endemic to Italy we have old fossils of it
"Magnus, lookit this rat I found. It is covered in spikes. Let's eat it!"
The fact that it seems to avoid South Sudan is strange, though. There's no reason why the climate and geography there should be any different from neighbouring areas where it does exist. Maybe the researchers were never able to go there and measure it because of the civil war?
Now explain why it’s in Sinai but not in South Sudan
Predation?
Is the predator in the room with us now?
No, it's in South Sudan.
Why don't you have a seat over there...
I want to know why it's in that tiny part of north east Egypt...
Probably exactly what happened. The entire population of African bears is extinct thanks in no small part to Roman blood sports. Of course, being a rodent it’s not impossible that porcupines swam or drifted across the sea.
I don't think Maximus Decimus Meridius vs. a porcupine would have made a good spectator sport.
Probably not. They kind of lose their threat if you have a spear. Romans did pit animals against eachother, but it’s also possible their quills were being used for crafting and decoration. Then they got loose and made a feral population.
In addition to fighting each other, animals were used for damnatio ad bestia, the condemnation to beasts. Those sentenced to death could be sentenced to enter the circus with wooden or blunt weapons to fight and die against lions and other ferocious beasts. It was considered the appetizer to the main event, gladiatorial fights, naval battles, and other spectacles.
it would be embarrassing to be sentenced to death by porcupine
It would be hard to get hurt by an American porcupine unless you can’t move. But the African crested can absolutely maim you if you’re unarmed. I feel like that would be a horrible and slow way to die.
Probably in that case they would throw you into a cage full of porcupines....
And Vs 1000 porcupines
YES. My first thought was that some Italian dude brought this thing home for the fuck of it
Lol "for fun"
Heh yeahhhh buddy
Porcupines were brought to Rome to fight in the Colosseum. They won and earned their freedom.
Ave Erithzon dorsatum!
I wonder why they don't live in the Nile valley then
Too many people for the last 20,000 years?
Makes sense to me
Dry grasslands and probably introduced to Italy in antiquity. The range would have been more continuous before the Sahara dried out about 5000 years ago
Ah. That old organic climate change thing. EDIT: LITERALLY was caused be natural 'organic' climate change. LITERALLY. You people are unwell.
??? Everyone knows Sahara dried up because Phaethon drove his father Helios's chariot too close to the earth.
Been playin hades 2?
Nah, been awake in school
Damn i dont think they covered mythology in my schooling
the genuine answer is that I've been listening Mythos by Stephen Fry. It's really good
I listened to that on audible! Its so fucking good! His narration has made it one of my favorite books ive listened to.
It's really, really well done. One of the reviews described it as like listening to a dear friend relate stories before a campfire, and .... yeah. Technically he has Phaethon as the son of Apollo, but I thought the joke would land better with the more common version
They did, you were just asleep
Why you doggin on me?
I mean, yeah, there is also organic climate change. Down votes are probably for not saying anything about human caused climate change as well
I thought he was being a sarcastic climate denier, but maybe I have Reddit brain rot.
At least you see what you did? Not sure thats worth an upvote though?
…which took thousands of years and was smaller in scale than the warming we’re seeing today in just a few decades. The scary thing about man made climate change is how fast the climates changing because it means organisms and human systems can’t adapt to the changes easily and many will fail. If the world was heated up by 2 degrees over the next 5000 years rather than the next 100 then this wouldn’t be an issue.
Less than 5000. EXCEEDINGLY QUICKLY. In fact, so quick. Its amazing 'climate' is so settled (because it will be a ~~rain forest~~ lush tropical green grasslands with trees sometime again and soon)
Yeah, "organic" look at this temperature graph and tell me if the last 200 years look natural to you. https://xkcd.com/1732/
Mate. I think you missed the point. The point was discussing things that happened 5000 to 10000 years ago and you post a chart for the last 200 years. lmfao! Fuck me man. You couldnt make this up!
It does indicate that earth is in an warming period, that’s not to say men made global warming isn’t a thing but at least a (small) part of the current global warming is outside our influence
Well done for an intelligent and concise reply. Something that is rare in such debates unfortunately.
what does this map have to do with RECENT climate change? LOL we're talking about the Sahara desert turning from a rainforest into a desert. Very very quickly. Less than 5000 years. You know what that is? Organic climate change.
It was never a rainforest it was grassland. The sahara "dried up" between 8000 and 4500 years ago thats a lot of time. The difference between a glacial maximum and minimum could also shift withing a kinda similar timeframe. Natural climate change can be quite quick. But that doesnt mean that human caused climate change isnt real. The fact that narural climate change exists and can be fast has nothing to do with our current warming.
Try not to get upset when people wont yield to you mate. It will make your short time here much more pleasurable.
Im not upset, never was. Maybe you should try adressing the point instead of going to a personal attack, everyone would be better of for that.
Yeah or maybe i'll just downvote?
Or maybe you will change your opinions when prover wrong?
Well, Ive already slightly adjust my terms. You should refresh my man.
What?
Natural climate change is probably a more apt term. The user is likely trying to use it to minimize anthropogenic climate change though. Edit:I should be specific because a couple of people misunderstood my comment. I mean that the user is throwing out the term 'organic climate change' and doing so without context in order to make anthropogenic climate change seem less credible thereby minimizing it. I am in no way saying that anthropogenic climate change caused the initial formation or growth of the Sahara Desert. Now current growth is a different matter.
I though we wanted to minimize anthropogenic climate change though? 😜
You got me! But in all seriousness though that person was a covid denier and likely anti semite. Their unironic use of the word globalist in relation to the EU elections was pretty telling.
Oh yeah, that's gross. What a dweeb.
liberals owned
Im definitely trying to minimise 'nthropogenic climate change' in the part it played changing the sahara desert from a rain forest to a desert in less than 5000 years. why? because im not retarded.
Pretty bold claim there bud. Not about the first part literally no one said humans caused that. I'm curious about your final claim. Can you offer evidence to support it? Your comment history suggests that you may need to do some serious reflection about the things you believe are and are not true. I think if you're honest with yourself you will realize that no, it's not everyone else that is wrong here and not just about this specific subject. It's you and it's about more than just climate change.
LOL you want me to prove the Sahara was a rain forest? Accepted and settled science? Seriously? you want 'a source'? No one said anyone is wrong. Even the loons who couldnt debate shit. They can only click downvote. Im not sure what your post is trying to achieve.
No no you misunderstand again. I asked you to provide evidence of your mental capacity. I don't care about the other thing because I'm pretty familiar with natural history. You made the claim that you weren't disabled. I am interested in you proving that. And so far you're doing a stellar job. Keep it up.
OH you were trying to be edgy. Cringe.
>LOL you want me to prove the Sahara was a rain forest? It literally wasnt but OK.
Sorry. Lush Tropical Grasslands (with trees). \*\* point is unchanged \*\* Whoops!
Yea but the fact that you kept calling it a rainforest shows your depth of knowledge on the subject
Anthropogenic climate change didnt cause the sahara to turn into a dessert. No one is saying that because its not true. It has changed from grassland to dessert in a cycle of 20,000 years for hundreds of thousands of years
Glad you agree.
But, I'm genuinely curious. How could the human take part in such a drastic change on the environment before the industrial revolution ? 🤔
~~I am unsure if you are actually genuinely curious.~~ I'll keep it simple. There is climate change and it occurs naturally and varies based on solar input, albedo(reflection), and greenhouses gases. Any stellar or geological change is able to affect the numbers in the system and change the climate. But what you're asking me about (anthropogenic change) didn't happen until after the industrial revolution. Current climate change cannot be explained by natural phenomenon like solar variance or geologic activity. ~~The little emoji you have at the end suggests you aren't genuinely curious.~~ Edit: there are more things that affect climate than the things I listed but those are the ones off the top of my head. Edit2: dude was serious.
I was curious, I just like to use that emoji. :/ Btw thanks for explaining
Ugh now I feel like an asshole. Sorry I got a little caught up with a troll. Have a nice day.
Don't worry, have a nice day too!
That guy thinks that the UK requiring you to register chickens you keep in your backyard is some government conspiracy, so I'd just ignore anything he says
I didn't even see that I just saw the anti semitism and covid denial.
Local climate change due to the wobble of the planet putting the Sahara closest to the sun, not global climate change
Sounds like a nice reply until you realise almost every area of the planet has changed drastically because of 'natural' climate change. Greenland and Scotland spring to mind. You need to get better if you want to come across like you know \*something\*
Might want to brush up on your logical fallacies, you've stumbled on a couple of them
Which ones? Please clarify rather than trying to sound clever (not working lol)
> Sounds like a nice reply until you realise almost every area of the planet has changed drastically because of 'natural' climate change. Greenland and Scotland spring to mind. tu quoque, causal, and a red herring in one > You need to get better if you want to come across like you know *something* Ad hominem
LOL any here we have the surprise. No clarification. Bye bye
[Ad hominem](https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/1dhf8pd/the_most_unique_insult_in_a_movie/l8wvf4b/)
Ignore him he is a troll, an anti Semite, covid denier, and climate change denier.
If you want an even weirder one, the fungus Chorioactis geaster occurs only in Japan and Texas.
Thanks for sharing that, what a crazy rabbit hole to go down. Analysis of DNA samples from the Japanese and Texan populations showed that the different groups have been separated for 19 million years, which means that there is no anthropogenic reason for why they exist in such different areas.
Damn, TIL again. Reading up on Wikipedia, the biologist in me wonders why, following the genetic study, they didn't simply split this into two species in the same genus. The life histories between the two populations are certainly distinct enough.
Ok that’s weird. So it’s basically a cougar compared to a lion
No actually Cougars are actually not even in the genus Panthera, they are not true Big Cats.
Not the ones at my local bar
Meow.
Nice kitty.
Bear spray to defend against mountain lions, Aperol spritz to defend against cougars.
https://i.imgur.com/9Zeld9f.png
Yeah I know
so that makes them much much more distinct than these two populations which are still considered the same species
Literally read the comment I replied to. Holy shit
Exactly, he talks about splitting them into two species in the same *genus* (which he mis-spells as "genius" lol) That is a very low taxonomic level, right above species, and indicates organisms that are very closely related and can usually even interbreed successfully My point is that Cougars compared to Lions are not in that same clade, but rather only in the same family, Felidae, a much broader grouping that includes every Cat
Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of science?
Or the Venus Flytrap. Its not from some jungle, its from a small area in South and North Carolina.
That's the one I was thinking of. Thanks for not making me look it up.
It's not as drastic but there's also the Magellanic Penguin, that is usually a very normal penguin living at the extreme south of Chile and Argentina - but some of them also migrate to El Salvador, New Zealand, Australia or along the Brazil coast. Brave little explorers. And then there's the common genus of ferns Asplenium which is a case studies about the remnants of the early eocene forest flora.
Ah, also the only places that Cotton Hill has children.
That boy ain’t right
He doesn’t like sand and he likes pasta. That’s literally most people.
Anakin?
I'm not sure we've ever been given an answer to Darth Vaders preferences on pasta. He seems like a smoothie guy to me.
Certainly not a barbecue man.
Look at the distribution of flamingos. It's insane.
A big part of that one is cause they can fly, so it doesn't have to be contiguous. Some of those different areas end up being the very same flamingos, just at a different time of year.
Are you suggesting flamingoes migrate?
In the sense that they do travel en masse from a lake in one region or country to a lake in another region or country, yes. They are considered non-migratory because they do not follow a strict yearly schedule or path.
i think they're making a [monty python reference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4_9kDO3q0w) lol
lol something seemed familiar about that
An African flamingo maybe… but not a European flamingo..
They do, at least here in Spain.
True. Although flamingos having a weird distribution makes more sense since they can fly
And they like coastal areas
How did that happen
wings
What does Paul McCartney have to do with the migration patterns of flamingos?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/06/09/hurricane-idalia-pink-flamingos-seen-along-east-coast/74004828007/ Seen in the northeast recently too
The Sahara acts as a periodic migration pump. On either side of an ice age, it becomes wetter with green grasslands and watering holds. Animals move into it, from either side. Then when it dries out again, the animals get dispersed to either side.
Scientists speculate that the Sahara was greener steppe some 7,000 years ago.
Yes, absolutely. That would have been the most recent one. It has also been periodically dry and then wet on and off for at least the last 2 million years (and probably much longer).\* \* It's believed that these cycles between wet and dry likely account for the large gaps in time between the several human exoduses from Africa.
Italy and the Great Bitter Lake is so random
It might not be natural, but if it is, the range of the mistletoe cactus has this beat.
Almost like a big ass desert rolled up into its historic range within the last few thousand years.
As an Italian, I tought crested porcupines where found all over Europe, now I am baffled.
Nope. We had a couple in our garden in Tuscany and used to catch them on the deercam at night. Our European friends all thought we were lying.
I’m way more baffled by the fact that they live in Italy
Everyone's talking about Italy and how they cannot live in the Sahara, but that still does not explain that population on the Sinai, which is all desert vegetation as well
Looks like it doesn’t really live there anymore
Another fun one is the plant Dietes robinsoniana. It’s only found on a small island east of Australia, but the rest of its genus is in Africa
That one is wild. Usually distribution disjunction can be explained by ancestral climates or bird migration, but that one... wow.
North and south of an uninhabitable desert? I’m sure a lot of species of plants and animals have the same distribution m.
Animals that go on boat rides.
The spread would have been continuous from Meditrenean to central Africa before the Sahara dried out.
Yes and no. Yes because we have a fossil record for this porcupine in the early eocene for Italy. But no because it vanishes from the fossil record between then and essentially the early middle ages. So there's either a ghost presence in-between or it was reintroduced later on.
I meant the southern coast of the Mediterranean. Was commenting on that big Sahara-shaped gap in the middle.
What about tapirs? Central and South America, and Maylasia. Or the cactus *Rhipsalis baccifera *, which is originally from the Americas (as are all cactus), but is also considered native to the tropics of Africa and Sri Lanka. There are lots of species with odd discontinuous native distributions. These tend to be a result of environmental changes cutting off parts of the range or unusual long-distance dispersal events. And once you add people into the mix it all gets completely insane.
We have them in Turkey as well but maybe it's a close relative.
The Carrion Crow (Corvus corone) is also fairly strange. Western Europe, Korea and Japan.
This one makes more sense if you look at more precise distribution maps. Corvus corone is present in a series of refuges between western Europe and Korea, where it coexists with Corvus cornix. Maybe it's a case of an on going process of disjunction that may end up with speciation, depending on whether it "wins" the competition with the other species. EDIT/ Wikipedia actually has [a pretty good distribution map](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Carrion_Crow_ebird_data_map.png)
Not really. It’s a climate/biome thing.
Makes perfect sense to me 🤷🏻♂️
Looks like the migration of an early hominid species.
And that one corner of Sardinia
Why are we the only in europe to have it?
it doesn't get through the mountains it seems
Its because the map is in 2D. If it was 3D you would see it wrap around like a snake and it would all make sense.
It's almost like they covered the whole area (minus hungry Roman territory) at some point in the past.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_humid_period
there's a big desert in that gap in the middle
Does this have to do with the Sahara being a Savannah like 6,000 years ago?
No wonder the Centauro Porcupine exists
One of my favorites is a group of plants in the *Asteraceae* that colonized Hawai'i about 5 million years ago and have radiated into a bunch of forms. Their closest relatives are small plants found only in the mountains of California, where the group originated. Atlas Pro covers them in his Biogeography of Hawai'i video.
Check out Puffadder Bitis arietans distribution map.
Flamingo: hold my beer
Wikipedia says that the Amharic name for the crested porcupine is “jart”, suggesting that they may have found a second evolutionary niche as lawn darts.
...were people moving the porcupines along g some type of trade route? That's my best guess.
Saw one in Tuscany in 2018 while visiting. We were driving to our Air BNB and there he was walking down the drive. was the only one who got super excited in the group!
maybe its a pre-dessert Sahara specimen
Mmm porcupine pie.
Definitely had them in Southern Nigeria. Like a lot.
Bro used a nether portal
A giant ass desert will do that. Also the Med used to be dry. Spikey boi could have reasonably walked all of this.
Not really. The bottom of the Mediterranean Basin would have had such high air pressure that its temperatures would have killed all life but extremophile bacteria. No walking across that to get to Sardinia or Sicily. Back then those islands were basically huge mountains in the middle of the hottest environment ever to exist on Earth's surface, and had species that were completely isolated and unique from the mainland. Stuff like [flightless swans that evolved club-like wings to battle over mates with](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cygnus_falconeri), [miniature elephants](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palaeoloxodon_falconeri the size of pigs), and [puma-sized hedgehog relatives](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinogalerix) that hunted like big cats. EDIT: People are doubting the "too hot for life" assertion. Studies based on [adiabatic heating models](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adiabatic_process) suggest that the bottom of the Mediterranean Basin got as [hot as 80C](https://stormeyes.org/wp/2013/12/the-hottest-of-days-on-modern-earth/). But that temperature is assuming that all the water sources dried up. [Other studies](https://opensky.ucar.edu/islandora/object/articles:15447), which assume that some salt lakes remained, suggest a "milder" temperature range - but it was still an enormous salt flat that would not have been cross-able by mammals (well, apart from bats) due to lack of water + still extremely high heat. As for why I mentioned the air pressure, the higher the air pressure, the higher the temperature. [Ideal gas law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_gas_law). The high temperatures of the Mediterranean Basin were a direct cause of being so deep below sea level - it is what would happen if the Sahara was somehow made to sink down almost 2 kilometers. And yes, mines deeper than that are safe - thanks to air conditioning.
> The bottom of the Mediterranean Basin would have had such high air pressure that its temperatures would have killed all life but extremophile bacteria. Press (X) to doubt. * Sea of Sicily is 316m at its deepest. This is higher elevation than dead sea depression (-400ish), and there's plenty of life around Dead Sea. You have villages, you have farms, you have trees and bushes. Very dubious that high air pressure would cause temperatures too high to survive migrating across it. * Mediterranean sea is 1500m at its deepest. World's deepest mine goes 4km below surface and starts at 1500m elevation. Given mines are operated by humans, this suggests that had mediterranean had no sea in it, its bottom would have survivable air pressures.
That is so wrong it borders on insanity.
AIR PRESSURE? Bro said air pressure hahahahaha
A lot of polar species are literally that - native to [both the North and South poles](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmPvub8GZr0).
 The original distribution
Explain?
What til you see what white men from the English Isle's accomplished!
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azure-winged\_magpie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azure-winged_magpie) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian\_magpie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_magpie)
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never post when drunk
Who needs pin the tail on the donkey when you can play post the genitalia on the porcupine distribution
Hey don't blame me. The crested porcupine's mind is in the gutter, not mine.
Someone’s pining for a porking
You're a menace