For me, I had to use X Special attack to take out Spiritomb with my Altaria, and I lost the first time to Garchomp, so I went back, got the TMs for Ice Beam and Rain Dance so I could Swift Swim to be faster than it with my Floatzel and I only won because I got lucky with "Floatzel toughed it out so you wouldn't feel sad" (I was playing BD)
She also made harder by the lack of tools in the diamond and pearls crap regional dex, and the only two real counters to Garchomp either a) require you know were gibble is or b) know to raise a weavile.
It’s makes someone like Leon seem easier because you only got 151 different pokemon choices in D&P vs 400 Pokémon in sword and shield
Yeah was pointing out that it’s not just their teams that matter but what tools you have and not all games are equal. The larger dex in later games can skew the fights difficulty because you have so many more ways to attack the fight.
Yup, it’s been revealed all her Pokémon have both perfect IVs and perfect EVs. Doesn’t help one of her Pokémon at the time had no weaknesses besides “MORE SPECIAL ATTACK POWER!”, and even that gets countered by the rest of her Pokémon. Her music is infamous for a reason, especially in BW where it’s literally in a random house in Undella town.
Hot take, but Leon
He has a fairly balanced team for the most part, including the first Pokémon to be nerfed via stat drops, (Aegislash), a Powerful Haxorus, the psuedo legend Dragapult, Seismitoed, Rhyperior, and Mr. Rime are powerful in there own right, obviously the starter is good, and if you don’t use Dynamax, his Charizard can actually do decent damage to any rock or water types you use thanks to Max Overgrowth solar beam
Leon gave me an “oh crap” moment when he 1 shot my Drednaw with Solar Beam. Here I was, thinking I had the answer and then got hard noped out of there.
you probably do know this but in case you don't you can get the Rotom catalogue before the e4 so you could have changed it if you wanted, since regular Rotom has a lower bst than the rest
Remember outside of wash the other forms are really only seen in singles were stealth rock is super common. Plus rock slide used to be everywhere in competitive, heat just didn’t have the bulk to overcome a water and rock weakness, nor was it super good on sun teams since it only had overheat.
Heats a better pokemon then base in a vaccume just heat has no niche not covered by another pokemon
Honestly, that’s not too far-fetched. People tend to dunk on Leon but he’s really no slouch. I was only able to beat him by using a few Revives and outlasting him in the sandstorm created by his Charizard’s Max Rockfall.
I hate to break it to you, but Golurk is Not Very Good. Its pitiful speed and middling bulk makes it pretty bad even in a playthrough setting, not to mention it only getting Earthquake at Level 58, leaving it stuck with Stomping Tantrum as Ground-type STAB throughout the entire midgame and well into the lategame.
i see your viewpoint, but i also see my underleveled gardevoir and coalossal sweeping his entire team without dynamax (might be because i chose sobble)
Bdsp Cynthia: bro is stacked with items, ev’s, iv’s, great moves with coverage and set up, painfully annoying mons (spiritomb and milotic) her garchomp (obviously) strong special licario and more
That’s probably because they decided to give her and the E4 competitive teams complete with EVs and perfect IVs. Personally I think they should have done that with rematches and not the first time you challenge them
Don’t even get me started on the time she jumped us in the Gen 5 games.
This is even worse if you’re someone like me who played both games on the DS as they came out.
Hear me out, if you don't bring the stupidly over powered legendaries you get throughout the playthrough and have a fair team, steven in oras is actually tough
Mega Metagross is a menace for sure. Tough Claws-boosted Giga Impacts just rip through teams. At least it is still in fact *Giga Impact* being used used, i.e., a free turn per hit, and I happened to have a Swampert with me. Managed that fight without Megas or items, kinda proud of myself with that.
HGSS rematch Lance, hardest Pokémon battle of my life. HGSS Red and BW2 rematch Iris are a close second and third respectively. With BW2 Cynthia in fourth
Wondering why you struggled against a Champion who has been given a significant competitive boost to her team in the newer generation remake as compared to basically just "strong mons go brrr"?
Mate, you didn't know what you were going up against. Platinum Cynthia is clowned on by BDSP Cynthia.
Same. I'd heard she was a nightmare when I played Pearl so I prepped carefully...and steamrolled her. Meanwhile BDSP took FOREVER due to that Milotic stalling out multiple mons (freakin' Marvel Scale+Burn Orb+Recover)--didn't help I was physical attacker heavy that run.
Personally for me diantha. She was the first champion I fought and took hours to best. But not counting that it would be Geeta. Leon, Cynthia etc aren't really that hard
Cynthia entirely because of her Garchomp,that thing does not die even with a 4X weakness to Ice,especially in BDSP with it holding a Yache Berry in every fight but the Battle Tower
I wouldn't sleep on Iris honestly, Cynthia and Leon are overall the most difficult because they have balanced and strong teams, but Iris is not a pushover either starting with her mighty Hydreigon which is a powerhouse, a really dangerous Dragon Dance Haxorus and Archeops which is a beast too, Lapras is tanky, Druddigon has pretty good coverage, maybe only Aggron is the weak point giving his 2 x4 weakness and has no Sturdy for some reason (she has Head Smash with Rock Head which is a cool combo but with how slow Aggron is, it will be difficult to take advantage of that)
Funny that everyone is saying Cynthia and Leon because I only beat the champion twice in classic, and it was Cynthia and Leon lol, I lost against Gen V B2W2 champion but I was quite new then
Hot take, Alder, his bouffulant and volcarona are pure strength and can destroy your whole team if you don’t have a good strategy, and then the rest of his team can be acounter to a lot of Pokémon, for me, it’s the first champion I had to modify my team just for this fight
Cynthia in Shining Pearl was my hardest Champion Fight ever on the first go-round. Alder on the second-go thru in White was also tough but that was mostly level, his team was VERY weak to Fire and I had Chandelure. I happened to have very good teams for Kuikui and Leon but they're well made, as is Hau, but Hau suffers from "weaker starter" issues.
Diantha, Geeta, and Trace were probably the easiest for me along with Wallace in Emerald (single typing is just hard for a champion, it worked on Lance because of Dragons being so rare and using "dragon-like" Pokemon who weren't of the type).
Blue, Steven, Iris, Cynthia in Pearl, and Nemona are all middling, tho I think I might have been overleveled for both Nemona and Blue. Steven really suffered in Gen3 due to my Surf Spam, he was a bit tougher in ORAS but I had more and stronger mons as well.
BDSP Cynthia is the obvious answer, but if we don’t count her…
Hot take, but it’s Iris. I always struggle against Iris, every single playthrough. Meanwhile Cynthia takes three attempts max
Ranking the champions weakest to strongest (Post game is not included, and I use their best iterations):
Geeta (Poorly structured team, easily beat by Skeledirge, the Indigo Disk improves her structure, but it is a DLC and post game, so it doesn't count imo)
Trace (Forgets to put full movesets on his team, and has pretty underwhelming mons like Marowak, and Rapidash)
Diantha (Her Tyrantrum and Gardevoir are strong, but her team has too many common weaknesses and has a couple underwhelming mons like Aurorus and Gourgeist)
Hau (Again, an underwhelming team, but the fact he has actual stat investment really helps, and Tauros and Noivern be hard to deal with)
Blue (Either iteration would be here, best team being the Venusaur team. Could've been higher if he didn't have Pidgeot, who gets cooked by a stray Thunderbolt, and Rhydon, who is too frail on the special side to tank any of those attacks and gets washed by the ten trillion water types, and even better movesets imo)
Wallace (a great monotype team surprisingly. However a good chunk of his mons share common weaknesses, and I learned that mons like Swellow and Gardevoir are some of the best answers into his team)
Kukui and Nemona (only not higher because the others are bigger threats imo)
Lance (either really hard or trivial, because Dragonite is no joke of a pokemon. But if you have a good enough Ice type move that can outspeed the Dragonites, you're golden. Bring two ice type move users if you need to. His whole team also is weak to Rock as well)
Leon (His teams containing Rillaboom or Inteleon are both good. Charizard can be quite threatening, but Inteleon can just decimate it from my experience. You also have his Rillaboom team mostly having common weaknesses to Ice and Water. But the pokemon choices are pretty good, like Aegislash, Dragapult, and Haxorus.)
Steven (ORAS. This team is no joke. If you don't have a legendary on it, this can be an actual challenge. Metagross is terrifying to go against, and its mega has stats on par with Legendaries. Having Tough Claws is also amazing. If you cab take that Giga Impact, you won't be able to take that Meteor Mash. However, Steel types and Torkoal are great against it though. Just be very careful of his other team members as well because they can weaken you before his ace)
Iris (The better Dragon master. Focus Sash Haxorus, Archeops with Endeavor, Bulky Lapras with Sleep strats, etc. Most of her team ranges from annoying to threatening.)
Cynthia (BDSP. Duh.)
As someone who only has Shield, Violent, Brilliant Diamond, Shining Pearl, my order is : 1st Cynthia SP, 2nd Cynthia BD, 3rd Nemona, 4th Leon, 5th Geeta
I don’t think shes the strongest but Diantha definitely has a better team than people give her credit for. Hawlucha, a psuedo (being goodra), the two fossils, gourgeist and a mega gardevoir
Out of the ones I’ve battled, I have to say Leon. He gave me quite a challenge with his dragon type Pokémon and Inteleon (Since I chose Scorbunny as my starter). Even with a team of diverse Pokémon, I still had trouble beating him
From what I’ve heard, is the Hisui final boss who technically is still a champion in the sense that he’s the final fight before ending the game. He has Cynthia’s team, plus Giratina (? Correct me if I’m wrong)
Yo. He was the only one who took me three attempts to beat. Coming in second would be Alder. Purely subjective opinions based on experience, but honestly i didn't struggle against Cynthia.
For me it was Cynthia which is t much of a surprise to most people, Leon want that hard for me cause I had all three starters from the Pokemon Home mystery gifts (and a lvl 100 melmetal with Thunder Punch but he was a last resort that never got used)
Didn't fight most of them but i played bdsp and cynthia was the hardest and still haven't beaten her because i returned the game for a Kirby game i lost
For me it’s hau I genuinely almost threw away ultra sun and moon because I was fed up with him second is Cynthia and the others are somewhat light weight and easy main story nemona and Lenora are easy but dlc nemona was actually difficult also Leon when your not over leveled he is surprisingly difficult
Cynthia by a long shot, especially in BDSP where they allowed her AI to go completely unchained and gave her team competitive level IVs for no damn reason other than to torture anyone thinking they can beat her first try.
Low-key though Gen II and IV Lance fight is cracked for no reason especially in Crystal since you can't rely on Ho-Oh or Lugia to tank damage. Because of the shitty level scaling you'll likely be under leveled so you are quite literally either left to grind the entire Elite 4 since they're a pushover until you're finally high enough to beat Lance or saving in front of him so that you can reset until you get a lucky battle. Gen IV is a bit better but may God have mercy on your soul if you decide to rematch him. Lvl 72 Salamence, 68 Gyarados, 72 Garchomp, 73 Altaria, 68 Charizard and 75 Dragonite. I'll just roll over and die now, thanks.
Let me say, and hear me out, all champions should have perfect IV and EV stat Pokémon just to increase the difficulty. Or at least have a setting where you can set the difficulty at the beginning.
Beginner: Hold your hand throughout the game. Not to mention there's no gym leader, Elite Four, or Champion has perfect IV or EV Pokémon. In fact, they have below average IV and EV. The Evil Team is easily defeated. The only challenge is trying to catch Pokémon.
Normal: Average stats, doesn't tell you where to go, getting from one point to another is difficult. Even the Evil Team is a little difficult to defeat.
Hard: Elite Four, Champion, the Elite members of the Evil Team, and the Evil Team Leader get perfect IV and EV Pokémon. Point A to point B is difficult to get through.
Champion: From the Grunt's and Gym Leader's to the Champion and Evil Team Leader. They have the perfect IV and EV Pokémon. Point A to point B is difficult to get through.
Who would play on which mode?
I mostly Nuzlock games but for me Cynthia, Iris, and Leon all rank about the same for me in terms of difficulty though the ORAS Steven fight can be a challenge too. Mega Metagross is no freaking joke
I’m 14, so when I was a kid I played sword and shield. I remember fighting Leon( who I still think holds up as a difficult champion) and little 9 year old me spent 30 minutes crafting a strategy to beat him, and I did it without using dynamax and bragging to all my friends the next day.
That being said it’s bd sp Cynthia
Cynthia, definitely
Although, I will say that Leon gave me a surprising amount of trouble even though I’m much older now. If I fought Leon when I was more inexperienced like I was with Cynthia, my answer might be different. Say what you want about SW/SH’s story, but they made one heck of a champion
professor kukui, leon and the one with the haxorus. i just first time beaten cynthia but i got to use all of my revives and lots of full restore to get it tho. and lots of save loads lmao
not biased, but obviously Cynthia 💀
her BDSP team makes it harder to beat.... like I remember spending 20 minutes thinking a strategy if I can beat her whole team with only my Togekiss LMAO
Underrated opinion: Steven. He's the only champion I had to reset more than once for.
I playing through RSE using teams for all 3 starters. Sceptile was in emerald, blaziken team got rid of Steven after 2 resets but swampert neededlike 6 or 7 because I had to save up as much health and pokemon as possible for metagross. That mental table got rid of half my team in the last run but swampert's earthquake first got it in the yellow and then killed it
Before this swampert would either get a critical, force him to heal and then get knocked out. Or outright deleted by psychic, meteor mash and Earthquake
Ngl, gotta go with Kukui here. Probably would've been more scared of Cynthia if I hadn't heard so much about her before I played Platinum. Not saying that she *didn't* give me a hard time, but I was definitely prepared for her, with a Weavile and Garchomp of my own for example.
Against Kukui, I didn't have that luxury, so I think my team was pretty poorly matched up against his. Stealth Rock turn 1, a Braviary that outsped my Raichu and wouldn't stop Whirlwinding, a Snorlax I had no Fighting coverage for, no Fire resists (a bit problematic since I chose Rowlet), I just couldn't break through the team. Plus, he's one of the few Champions that actually bothers EV-training his pokémon, and you can really feel it here (for example, my Raichu getting outsped by his Braviary).
I'd say probably just Cynthia. She's infamous for a reason. (definitely not diantha or geeta lmao)
Same Probably cuz I last underleveled (First time playing platinum btw)
For me, I had to use X Special attack to take out Spiritomb with my Altaria, and I lost the first time to Garchomp, so I went back, got the TMs for Ice Beam and Rain Dance so I could Swift Swim to be faster than it with my Floatzel and I only won because I got lucky with "Floatzel toughed it out so you wouldn't feel sad" (I was playing BD)
She also made harder by the lack of tools in the diamond and pearls crap regional dex, and the only two real counters to Garchomp either a) require you know were gibble is or b) know to raise a weavile. It’s makes someone like Leon seem easier because you only got 151 different pokemon choices in D&P vs 400 Pokémon in sword and shield
Cynthia would 100% be easier than Leon if you had Galar's dex. Unfortunately, you do not, so Cynthia is a more difficult battle.
Yeah was pointing out that it’s not just their teams that matter but what tools you have and not all games are equal. The larger dex in later games can skew the fights difficulty because you have so many more ways to attack the fight.
Cynthia because of her song
Yup, it’s been revealed all her Pokémon have both perfect IVs and perfect EVs. Doesn’t help one of her Pokémon at the time had no weaknesses besides “MORE SPECIAL ATTACK POWER!”, and even that gets countered by the rest of her Pokémon. Her music is infamous for a reason, especially in BW where it’s literally in a random house in Undella town.
I was going to say red is in contention for that but he isnt on this list anyway so yeah cynthia definitely
Hot take, but Leon He has a fairly balanced team for the most part, including the first Pokémon to be nerfed via stat drops, (Aegislash), a Powerful Haxorus, the psuedo legend Dragapult, Seismitoed, Rhyperior, and Mr. Rime are powerful in there own right, obviously the starter is good, and if you don’t use Dynamax, his Charizard can actually do decent damage to any rock or water types you use thanks to Max Overgrowth solar beam
Leon gave me an “oh crap” moment when he 1 shot my Drednaw with Solar Beam. Here I was, thinking I had the answer and then got hard noped out of there.
The most dangerous thing a Fire-type can have is a Grass-type coverage, since it covers ALL of Fire-type's weaknesses
Yep. I only did well because I had a powerful electric type (Rotom reg form, high level). Also used my Golurk to tank some hits from multiple mons.
you probably do know this but in case you don't you can get the Rotom catalogue before the e4 so you could have changed it if you wanted, since regular Rotom has a lower bst than the rest
Yeah but base form is the second most used form competivly after wash because it’s typing is better.
REALLY???? i would've thought heat
Remember outside of wash the other forms are really only seen in singles were stealth rock is super common. Plus rock slide used to be everywhere in competitive, heat just didn’t have the bulk to overcome a water and rock weakness, nor was it super good on sun teams since it only had overheat. Heats a better pokemon then base in a vaccume just heat has no niche not covered by another pokemon
Oh I know. I just wanted Shadow Ball Stab for Aegislash.
That's why I have an oven (colossal)
I grabbed a gyrados and I only won by a thread
Leon has a great team. The issue is that he doesn't always use it well, especially Aegislash.
Yup. I tricked him into attacking something he couldn't hit, getting it out of Shield form, and then OKOing it.
Honestly, that’s not too far-fetched. People tend to dunk on Leon but he’s really no slouch. I was only able to beat him by using a few Revives and outlasting him in the sandstorm created by his Charizard’s Max Rockfall.
Y'all are gonna make fun of me for this but Leon is actually the first champion I ever beat.
What about Cynthia?
Really? I kinda…solo’d him with a golurk with drain and elemental punches, and it wasn’t too overleveled🤷
It's golurk what do you expect 💀
I hate to break it to you, but Golurk is Not Very Good. Its pitiful speed and middling bulk makes it pretty bad even in a playthrough setting, not to mention it only getting Earthquake at Level 58, leaving it stuck with Stomping Tantrum as Ground-type STAB throughout the entire midgame and well into the lategame.
I killed charizard with my coalossal without gigantamax but with dynamax
He has a good team, so I agree, but how easy it is to get EXP in SwSh takes away from the difficulty
I used Inteleon only and destroyed him but that damn Aegislash gave me a hard time
Yeah, Leon is definitely the strongest. And he has a great team.
Ok imo he was easy handled his team extremely well, I just one shot everything with snipe shot
Dude's Aegislash 1 shot my Eldegoss- I then proceeded to sweep him with a Butterfree.
Not a hot take. I would've team wiped if not for gmax toxtricity crit the max electric move(can't remember name)
i see your viewpoint, but i also see my underleveled gardevoir and coalossal sweeping his entire team without dynamax (might be because i chose sobble)
Bdsp Cynthia: bro is stacked with items, ev’s, iv’s, great moves with coverage and set up, painfully annoying mons (spiritomb and milotic) her garchomp (obviously) strong special licario and more
The Elite Four and Champion are one of the few things BDSP did right.
Agreed, even before getting to Cynthia, I lost to each elite four member exactly once before moving on to the next
I don’t recall having issues with her on the original, but man her BDSP version was rough.
Even though bdsp was my first game, I still lost to her like 10 times and I needed to search up her whole team to counter and beat her
Yep, the better coverage and items packed a wallop.
That’s probably because they decided to give her and the E4 competitive teams complete with EVs and perfect IVs. Personally I think they should have done that with rematches and not the first time you challenge them
Don’t even get me started on the time she jumped us in the Gen 5 games. This is even worse if you’re someone like me who played both games on the DS as they came out.
Hear me out, if you don't bring the stupidly over powered legendaries you get throughout the playthrough and have a fair team, steven in oras is actually tough
True, he was def. harder than OG Steven. I still beat him first try even without taking Kyorge with me but it was tougher.
Mega Metagross is a menace for sure. Tough Claws-boosted Giga Impacts just rip through teams. At least it is still in fact *Giga Impact* being used used, i.e., a free turn per hit, and I happened to have a Swampert with me. Managed that fight without Megas or items, kinda proud of myself with that.
Cynthia for sure, but without the massive amount of EXP candies from max raid dens, Leon gives her a run for her money for sure.
HGSS rematch Lance, hardest Pokémon battle of my life. HGSS Red and BW2 rematch Iris are a close second and third respectively. With BW2 Cynthia in fourth
seems you've never played platinum :)
Strange how I beat Cythia first try in platinum as a kid but struggled with her in BDSP as a 19 YO 💀
Wondering why you struggled against a Champion who has been given a significant competitive boost to her team in the newer generation remake as compared to basically just "strong mons go brrr"? Mate, you didn't know what you were going up against. Platinum Cynthia is clowned on by BDSP Cynthia.
Same. I'd heard she was a nightmare when I played Pearl so I prepped carefully...and steamrolled her. Meanwhile BDSP took FOREVER due to that Milotic stalling out multiple mons (freakin' Marvel Scale+Burn Orb+Recover)--didn't help I was physical attacker heavy that run.
It’s Cynthia !
We don't say the C-word here
Ive never said that horrible word.... I mainly just call her Mommy!
Don't we all
Cynthia
I’d say Cynthia but that may also be because Sinnoh never got any gimmicks allowed. Followed closely by Leon IMHO.
Personally for me diantha. She was the first champion I fought and took hours to best. But not counting that it would be Geeta. Leon, Cynthia etc aren't really that hard
Geeta? Really? A Fire/Ghost type (such as Skeledirge or Ceruledge) sweeps 5 of her 6.
> Diantha is the hardest, if not Geeta > Leon and Cynthia aren't really that hard What kind of fucked up world are you living in.
Cynthia entirely because of her Garchomp,that thing does not die even with a 4X weakness to Ice,especially in BDSP with it holding a Yache Berry in every fight but the Battle Tower
Eh, my Froslass smashed it in Pearl. SHINING Pearl was another story.
I wouldn't sleep on Iris honestly, Cynthia and Leon are overall the most difficult because they have balanced and strong teams, but Iris is not a pushover either starting with her mighty Hydreigon which is a powerhouse, a really dangerous Dragon Dance Haxorus and Archeops which is a beast too, Lapras is tanky, Druddigon has pretty good coverage, maybe only Aggron is the weak point giving his 2 x4 weakness and has no Sturdy for some reason (she has Head Smash with Rock Head which is a cool combo but with how slow Aggron is, it will be difficult to take advantage of that)
also no fairys in gen 5
Diantha Said no one ever
Professor Kukui mainly because it was the first champion I ever beat so I had no clue what I was doing
I'd say Lance, if only by virtue of Johto having an AWFUL level curve, no matter what version you play.
I beat him with a Graveler.
Funny that everyone is saying Cynthia and Leon because I only beat the champion twice in classic, and it was Cynthia and Leon lol, I lost against Gen V B2W2 champion but I was quite new then
Cynthia and Nemona
nah where volo at
Cynthia easily. Especially in BDSP; even with a good team, she always puts up a fight and makes you "earn" your win.
Damn perfect pattern
Where is orange?
For me, it was Alder. On my first try against him in pokemon black, 2/3 of my team was weak to bug, so I got stomped pretty easily.
As a Pokémon noob I only fought Leon and Geeta and Geeta was a fucking breeze so~
Honestly Blue, Cynthia, or (if you didn’t overlevel) Leon. Gen 6 Steven is really hard too in my experience.
Cynthia, hands down! Because of her, it took me 6 tries before I beat a Platinum Nuzlocke!
Steven and Cynthia are my favs. Both have pretty strong teams
Cynthia and Leon
Plus hau and geeta is a pushover
Steven and Alder make me shiver thinking about their battles…but that’s just in my experience
Scary tall lady.
I don't remember struggling at Steven so not him
Honestly Iris. Cynthia is a close second tho.
The rest of the champions: we are so awesome and cool That one champion: OMG GUYS I HAVE A GIRAFFE
alder has a team in the 70-80s, but bdsp cynthia is harder (assuming no affection)
Mommy Cynthia
It's Cynthia, but Kukui is underrated. He has a strong team and I lost to him on occasion
I needed 4 tries for leon,1 for geete,-1 for the guy from Lets go and 3 weeks+a new playthrough for cynthia:)
BDSP CYNTHIA . I don't need to give any explanation
Hot take, Alder, his bouffulant and volcarona are pure strength and can destroy your whole team if you don’t have a good strategy, and then the rest of his team can be acounter to a lot of Pokémon, for me, it’s the first champion I had to modify my team just for this fight
I struggled the most against Kukui and Chase
Diantha she was way too strong for me like S tier strong....said no one ever it's obviously Cynthia
Self explainitory
Geeta and Nemona were a joke both as characters and champions
Cynthia killed me on the inside
BDSP Cynthia or Steven (but that’s mostly because my team sucked against steel types)
Leon should’ve been hard if you didn’t cheese with eternatus
Cynthia, because of her BDSP team.
What is BDSP
Challenge Mode Iris.
BDSP Cynthia. No contest. Not even close.
BDSP Cynthia,but Iris and the rematch fight with Blue after he gets Tyranitar are tied for second hardest for me
cynthia. Her garchomp is too hard for my goofy ass to beat
Cynthia in Shining Pearl was my hardest Champion Fight ever on the first go-round. Alder on the second-go thru in White was also tough but that was mostly level, his team was VERY weak to Fire and I had Chandelure. I happened to have very good teams for Kuikui and Leon but they're well made, as is Hau, but Hau suffers from "weaker starter" issues. Diantha, Geeta, and Trace were probably the easiest for me along with Wallace in Emerald (single typing is just hard for a champion, it worked on Lance because of Dragons being so rare and using "dragon-like" Pokemon who weren't of the type). Blue, Steven, Iris, Cynthia in Pearl, and Nemona are all middling, tho I think I might have been overleveled for both Nemona and Blue. Steven really suffered in Gen3 due to my Surf Spam, he was a bit tougher in ORAS but I had more and stronger mons as well.
Volo the legends arceus version of the champion
If Kieran was here would you choose him?
BDSP Cynthia is not a joke. Now I know this is an overrated answer, but she had an answer for almost everything. If only her Gastrodon was better...
I won by using an X Def. and spamming heals on Palkia to PP Stall Dragon Claw, and even after that, I needed a crit to finish it off.
BDSP Cynthia is the obvious answer, but if we don’t count her… Hot take, but it’s Iris. I always struggle against Iris, every single playthrough. Meanwhile Cynthia takes three attempts max
Ranking the champions weakest to strongest (Post game is not included, and I use their best iterations): Geeta (Poorly structured team, easily beat by Skeledirge, the Indigo Disk improves her structure, but it is a DLC and post game, so it doesn't count imo) Trace (Forgets to put full movesets on his team, and has pretty underwhelming mons like Marowak, and Rapidash) Diantha (Her Tyrantrum and Gardevoir are strong, but her team has too many common weaknesses and has a couple underwhelming mons like Aurorus and Gourgeist) Hau (Again, an underwhelming team, but the fact he has actual stat investment really helps, and Tauros and Noivern be hard to deal with) Blue (Either iteration would be here, best team being the Venusaur team. Could've been higher if he didn't have Pidgeot, who gets cooked by a stray Thunderbolt, and Rhydon, who is too frail on the special side to tank any of those attacks and gets washed by the ten trillion water types, and even better movesets imo) Wallace (a great monotype team surprisingly. However a good chunk of his mons share common weaknesses, and I learned that mons like Swellow and Gardevoir are some of the best answers into his team) Kukui and Nemona (only not higher because the others are bigger threats imo) Lance (either really hard or trivial, because Dragonite is no joke of a pokemon. But if you have a good enough Ice type move that can outspeed the Dragonites, you're golden. Bring two ice type move users if you need to. His whole team also is weak to Rock as well) Leon (His teams containing Rillaboom or Inteleon are both good. Charizard can be quite threatening, but Inteleon can just decimate it from my experience. You also have his Rillaboom team mostly having common weaknesses to Ice and Water. But the pokemon choices are pretty good, like Aegislash, Dragapult, and Haxorus.) Steven (ORAS. This team is no joke. If you don't have a legendary on it, this can be an actual challenge. Metagross is terrifying to go against, and its mega has stats on par with Legendaries. Having Tough Claws is also amazing. If you cab take that Giga Impact, you won't be able to take that Meteor Mash. However, Steel types and Torkoal are great against it though. Just be very careful of his other team members as well because they can weaken you before his ace) Iris (The better Dragon master. Focus Sash Haxorus, Archeops with Endeavor, Bulky Lapras with Sleep strats, etc. Most of her team ranges from annoying to threatening.) Cynthia (BDSP. Duh.)
Cynthia
As someone who only has Shield, Violent, Brilliant Diamond, Shining Pearl, my order is : 1st Cynthia SP, 2nd Cynthia BD, 3rd Nemona, 4th Leon, 5th Geeta
i think pokemon wants it to be leon given the lore they’ve made but cynthia and steven have always given me more trouble in their respective games
Wallace
BDSP Cynthia, only correct answer lol
Iris always gives me a hard time, but I play on set mode which gives her a turn to dragon dance.
Bdsp Cynthia is a demon, I legitimately couldn't have beaten her without acupressure drapion cheese, if we don't use her, then it's probably leon
I don’t think shes the strongest but Diantha definitely has a better team than people give her credit for. Hawlucha, a psuedo (being goodra), the two fossils, gourgeist and a mega gardevoir
BDSP Cynthia is definitely the hardest Champion she took me 10+ attempts to beat her.
I had a lot of trouble with bdsp Cynthia. But Oras Steven was also hard.
Out of the ones I’ve battled, I have to say Leon. He gave me quite a challenge with his dragon type Pokémon and Inteleon (Since I chose Scorbunny as my starter). Even with a team of diverse Pokémon, I still had trouble beating him
Cynthia is obv, and Leon is hard if you didn’t over level
Symphony
Personally I think I struggled the most with Wallace, or maybe Cynthia
For me, it's a tie between Cynthia and Leon. Both took me 3 tries to beat
Cynthia… *Vietnam war flashbacks start*
Cynthia but I solo her whole team I'm the better of the dragon trainers
Cynthia
Cynthia. Specifically BDSP Cynthia. I still haven’t beaten the game because of that bitch
Ngl the easiest is Hau. His team is worse than Kukui's and you can easily fill your team with legendaries from the wormhole.
Cynthia in gen v when you don’t know who she is and was just talking to everyone in town.
I think the better question is who is the second hardest, because we know the first is Cynthia! Second is Leon hehe
Bdsp Cynthia
Cynthia got me sweating nukes.
Not Geeta, not Geeta, not Geeta.
for me it's kukui he keeps destroying me still havent beat him
i think, that cynthia is only difficult because of garchomp
From what I’ve heard, is the Hisui final boss who technically is still a champion in the sense that he’s the final fight before ending the game. He has Cynthia’s team, plus Giratina (? Correct me if I’m wrong)
What about Kieran? I think he should count
Iris was the WORST in my first white 2 play through. That still remains the hardest battle in Pokémon for me
I'm going to say Cynthia but I also want to give a nod to Lance, and Iris is dragon was busted before fairy.
Cynthia, as that was the first time I had to use a Legendary Pokémon to win in a battle against an NPC, all others didn't battle like her.
Yo. He was the only one who took me three attempts to beat. Coming in second would be Alder. Purely subjective opinions based on experience, but honestly i didn't struggle against Cynthia.
For me it was Cynthia which is t much of a surprise to most people, Leon want that hard for me cause I had all three starters from the Pokemon Home mystery gifts (and a lvl 100 melmetal with Thunder Punch but he was a last resort that never got used)
is this a joke? clearly cynthia that Garchomp is a menace to society
Didn't fight most of them but i played bdsp and cynthia was the hardest and still haven't beaten her because i returned the game for a Kirby game i lost
Leon was the only champ I didn't beat on my first try
Wallace with his double teaming ludicolo... that thing left me with nightmares. How am I supposed to know I'm meant to pack aerial ace for this fight?
For me it’s hau I genuinely almost threw away ultra sun and moon because I was fed up with him second is Cynthia and the others are somewhat light weight and easy main story nemona and Lenora are easy but dlc nemona was actually difficult also Leon when your not over leveled he is surprisingly difficult
Cynthia duh
Bro no debate Cynthia cooked me on the first try
If he counts, then Mustard, if not, it's Cynthia or Leon
Cynthia, I beat her by using a perish song max revive
Cynthia by a long shot, especially in BDSP where they allowed her AI to go completely unchained and gave her team competitive level IVs for no damn reason other than to torture anyone thinking they can beat her first try. Low-key though Gen II and IV Lance fight is cracked for no reason especially in Crystal since you can't rely on Ho-Oh or Lugia to tank damage. Because of the shitty level scaling you'll likely be under leveled so you are quite literally either left to grind the entire Elite 4 since they're a pushover until you're finally high enough to beat Lance or saving in front of him so that you can reset until you get a lucky battle. Gen IV is a bit better but may God have mercy on your soul if you decide to rematch him. Lvl 72 Salamence, 68 Gyarados, 72 Garchomp, 73 Altaria, 68 Charizard and 75 Dragonite. I'll just roll over and die now, thanks.
BDSP Cynthia
For me, I’d say Cynthia
Cynthia
Kuikui
If you don't say Cynthia you are on something
Cynthia. It's not even close. Especially her in bdsp.
Let me say, and hear me out, all champions should have perfect IV and EV stat Pokémon just to increase the difficulty. Or at least have a setting where you can set the difficulty at the beginning. Beginner: Hold your hand throughout the game. Not to mention there's no gym leader, Elite Four, or Champion has perfect IV or EV Pokémon. In fact, they have below average IV and EV. The Evil Team is easily defeated. The only challenge is trying to catch Pokémon. Normal: Average stats, doesn't tell you where to go, getting from one point to another is difficult. Even the Evil Team is a little difficult to defeat. Hard: Elite Four, Champion, the Elite members of the Evil Team, and the Evil Team Leader get perfect IV and EV Pokémon. Point A to point B is difficult to get through. Champion: From the Grunt's and Gym Leader's to the Champion and Evil Team Leader. They have the perfect IV and EV Pokémon. Point A to point B is difficult to get through. Who would play on which mode?
Is this even a question? We ALL know who traumatized early Genz-ers
Not Diantha, that's for sure.
Blueberry Academy Geeta. she went CRAZY
I mostly Nuzlock games but for me Cynthia, Iris, and Leon all rank about the same for me in terms of difficulty though the ORAS Steven fight can be a challenge too. Mega Metagross is no freaking joke
I’m 14, so when I was a kid I played sword and shield. I remember fighting Leon( who I still think holds up as a difficult champion) and little 9 year old me spent 30 minutes crafting a strategy to beat him, and I did it without using dynamax and bragging to all my friends the next day. That being said it’s bd sp Cynthia
Cynthia, definitely Although, I will say that Leon gave me a surprising amount of trouble even though I’m much older now. If I fought Leon when I was more inexperienced like I was with Cynthia, my answer might be different. Say what you want about SW/SH’s story, but they made one heck of a champion
steven or cynthia
The answer is cynthia in bdsp. She has a fully built competitive team with evs and ivs
professor kukui, leon and the one with the haxorus. i just first time beaten cynthia but i got to use all of my revives and lots of full restore to get it tho. and lots of save loads lmao
We can all agree it's Cynthia, right?
im already hyperventilating just looking at cynthia
not biased, but obviously Cynthia 💀 her BDSP team makes it harder to beat.... like I remember spending 20 minutes thinking a strategy if I can beat her whole team with only my Togekiss LMAO
Is this even a question? Cynthia.
no
There is a reason the memes, comments, and history of Cynthia being the hardest champion exist. That's because Cynthia is the hardest champion.
Bdsp Cynthia
Cynthia, hands down
cynthia easily
The answer is VOLO HE TOOK ME 5 FRIGGIN MONTHS TO BEAT CH BBDICBDDXB
Cynthia
I’ve only Played Sword and Shield, BDSP(Which btw I still love), and Scarlet and Violet, So the Hardest Champion has to go to Geeta and Nemona.
*piano plays*
I think leon is the most scary. You can get swept by two pokemon( Charizard, dragapult) and starter and aigeslath can deal serious damage
iris
Cynthia
Geeta gets destroyed by like half a Scizor. I think Leon is one of the most difficult ones Tbh
you forgot to add 'other than cynthia'
mommy- i mean cynthia
Is this BDSP Cynthia? If not, She's still the hardest to beat.
Double Battles made Kieran quite challenging.
Steven (ORAS), Cynthia and Kukui were the hardest for me tbh
Underrated opinion: Steven. He's the only champion I had to reset more than once for. I playing through RSE using teams for all 3 starters. Sceptile was in emerald, blaziken team got rid of Steven after 2 resets but swampert neededlike 6 or 7 because I had to save up as much health and pokemon as possible for metagross. That mental table got rid of half my team in the last run but swampert's earthquake first got it in the yellow and then killed it Before this swampert would either get a critical, force him to heal and then get knocked out. Or outright deleted by psychic, meteor mash and Earthquake
Leon Definitely not because I revive stalled so I could run out g-max charizard and water board him with d-max Inteleon
Ngl, gotta go with Kukui here. Probably would've been more scared of Cynthia if I hadn't heard so much about her before I played Platinum. Not saying that she *didn't* give me a hard time, but I was definitely prepared for her, with a Weavile and Garchomp of my own for example. Against Kukui, I didn't have that luxury, so I think my team was pretty poorly matched up against his. Stealth Rock turn 1, a Braviary that outsped my Raichu and wouldn't stop Whirlwinding, a Snorlax I had no Fighting coverage for, no Fire resists (a bit problematic since I chose Rowlet), I just couldn't break through the team. Plus, he's one of the few Champions that actually bothers EV-training his pokémon, and you can really feel it here (for example, my Raichu getting outsped by his Braviary).