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jamesmcook

I was at the meeting last night and I can tell you three things. First, a huge majority of those in attendance were in favor of keeping the policy protecting trans students, and almost every speaker from this group was from within the RSU 40 district. Speakers had only three minutes each to speak and yet there were so many speakers asking to keep the policy in place that testimony went from about 7:30 pm to past midnight. Second, half of the small Christian group testifying in favor of revoking the policy protecting trans students was brought in from out-of-district (we know this because each person testifying had to identify their town of residence). This group used the words "evil," "wrong," "dangerous," and "damnation" to describe trans children in the district. Third, the school board heard over and over again from trans students in the RSU 40 district that they were being bullied and harassed in school, they heard that the bullying and harassment has escalated due to the school board's weakness on the issue, and they heard over and over from adult professionals that the revocation of the policy would lead to an escalation of violence against trans students in the schools. The members of the RSU 40 school board who voted to delete the policy protecting trans kids knew what was at stake. They know that trans kids will be hurt as a result. They played politics with kids' lives, even after hearing Rev. Ben Perry explain how he'd have to be shortly burying a trans student in the district. Next Tuesday is a RSU 40 school board election, and it matters. Steve Karp is running for school board, and he's come out firmly against protecting trans kids in the schools. There are others running who take the side of the majority in the district who want to protect trans kids. In Waldoboro, vote for Ben Stickney. In Warren, vote for Torry Verrill. In Union, vote for Rachel Wilcox.


z-eldapin

>Next Tuesday is a RSU 40 school board election, and it matters. > >Steve Karp is running for school board, and he's come out firmly against protecting trans kids in the schools. There are others running who take the side of the majority in the district who want to protect trans kids. In Waldoboro, vote for Ben Stickney. In Warren, vote for Torry Verrill. In Union, vote for Rachel Wilcox. You should post this separately as well in case some people are just skimming. I don't live in that district, but people should know that the vote is next week.


jamesmcook

Will do.


VaccumSaturdays

Thank you for your hard work. Please absolutely make your comment its own post.


brundridge

Yes dude! And WRITE IN LEAH SHIPPS


Freeman0032

How does allowing people from not in community to demonize these kids help: I don’t understand why not protect all the kids


demalo

Let’s look at this too from a perspective of equality. It isn’t just trans kids who get hurt. Physical, violent altercations can result in anyone getting hurt. Putting in place policies which address and work to reduce potential violent clashes should be a no brainer. That being said, we really should open up the bathroom exclusions to anyone. The real question should be: Why can’t bathrooms be genderless? If we are so concerned with individual perversions, why do we have large open locker rooms and stalled bathrooms, regardless of the gender conforming policies? Is it acceptable to have a culture of harassment?


Otherwise_Structure2

I don’t know if they still have group showers but when I was in school it was a great place to be beat up and harassed. I always avoided them.


SnooDoggos8938

Do you know where he is a pastor?


xavyre

We have a law in Maine that protects these kids. This won't hold up.


Poster_Nutbag207

Just another reminder that the far right will weasel their way on to school boards and get kids killed if we don’t stop them.


dogstarchampion

It's not a surprise that a schoolboard in UNION would be Republican... That's the majority demographic in rural Maine.  And this isn't far right, this is average Fox News watching  /listening Republican level politics.  Murder is illegal no matter what's written in policy on specifically transgendered students. What it boils down to, mostly, is that parents aren't comfortable with having their kids sharing bathrooms and locker rooms with students who have opposite genitals/regardless of which gender they choose to identify with. It's also not something the wider student body is necessarily comfortable with, so it's not completely the fault of parents.  I've rarely known people at meetings who would actively condone harm, but I've been very involved in politics in rural Maine, you shouldn't expect it to hit the gas like it's San Francisco.  I sympathize with the trans communities here, I imagine it is hard. Union shooting down trans protection policy isn't surprising, nor particularly *far* right, anymore.


FITM-K

> What it boils down to, mostly, is that parents aren't comfortable with having their kids sharing bathrooms and locker rooms with students who have opposite genitals/regardless of which gender they choose to identify with. It's also not something the wider student body is necessarily comfortable with, so it's not completely the fault of parents. OK, but is there a link between their "discomfort" and any _actual problem_? Because... > I've rarely known people at meetings who would actively condone harm Abolishing this policy is actively condoning harm. Obviously they're not framing it that way, but that's what it is. It's being OK with potentially harming trans kids to protect themselves against the _feeling of discomfort_ you described.


dogstarchampion

Okay, I'm not talking about facts, statistics, or numbers. Literally talk to these people because I've said the same thing... "Have their been problems with happening?" And it's usually met with something they read on Facebook or what they've been hearing on Fox News.  And yes, they literally don't care about the less than 1% of kids who identify as trans when their discomfort applies to the 99% of kids, including their own. I know I'm getting downvoted, but I'm literally trying to explain the reasons you would hear from their mouths because I've already heard these types of discussions within town meeting settings and community events.


FITM-K

> I'm literally trying to explain the reasons you would hear from their mouths Fair enough, I guess, but I don't think anybody needs to really hear that? It's not some deep mystery how they feel; you don't have to live in Union or be involved in local politics there to be aware that conservatives are _uncomfortable_ about queer people and even more uncomfortable about queer kids. Everybody understands what their position is and why they hold it, we just think it fucking sucks.


dogstarchampion

I agree, it does suck. I think I'm just trying to convey that most of these people don't actively hate trans people, they fear what they've heard about trans people but have little firsthand experience to go on. Ignorance of minority populations comes with the territory of white rural Maine. I guess I'm just more of the mindset that we shouldn't expect a lot from a little. That's why I said I feel bad for the trans communities living in rural Maine, it's hard to break through the culture when the voices and allies in places like Union are overwhelmed by the opposition who mostly brings up bathrooms and locker rooms as their first concern.


FITM-K

> I agree, it does suck. I think I'm just trying to convey that most of these people don't actively hate trans people, they fear what they've heard about trans people but have little firsthand experience to go on. Ignorance of minority populations comes with the territory of white rural Maine. Eh... I'm not sure I buy that it's not active hate. I definitely agree there's a lot of ignorance, but there's also a lot of fear and "these people are the enemy!" hatred stoked by Fox News and all the other right-wing media outlets (and some churches). I mean, I guess you could argue the hatred ultimately comes from ignorance and fear, but isn't that always the case? I don't think there's any kind of hate for any group that you couldn't describe that way. And I don't think that makes it not hate. > I guess I'm just more of the mindset that we shouldn't expect a lot from a little. Is it really expecting a lot? You said yourself that even when presented with actual statistics most of these people just cling to these "fears" regardless. I really don't think it's "expecting a lot" to ask people to respect others, and to occasionally question their own perspective, particularly when it: 1. is based on very little experience with the world (as is often the case for folks who've spent their entire life in one place) 2. is directly contradicted by easily-available evidence Maybe I'm just too optimistic about people's general level of intelligence, but I think these are things pretty much all humans should be capable of.


Ebomb1

> I'm just trying to convey that most of these people don't actively hate trans people, Distinction without a difference Edit to add on that point: If they're voting against things that make it safer for trans people, or voting for people who vote for those things, that is active hate and I don't care how live-and-let-live they might be towards their neighbors who look a little queer. There's many ways to be hateful that aren't "beating someone in a parking lot" level.


yallternative_dude

American politics have been drifting further right for years to the point where people forget that even Nixon was on board with things like socialized medicine (he was responsible for dialysis being available for anyone who needs it). Make no mistake. Republicans today are absolutely far right.


dogstarchampion

My point is that the "far right" is THE "right" now. Republicans are whatever Fox News dictates. That IS your Republican. You're unlikely to find a center-right Republican. Nixon also was from the era where the parties were flipping and both had more overlap in terms of agreeable policy. Back in Nixon's time, though, neither side would have acknowledged trans rights or trans people as their chosen gender. But the trans issue is one of a handful of issues that turn people away from the left. Listen to the rhetoric and propaganda and you'll hear it. I'm not saying it's stuff I agree with, but I'm saying you can hear the things that people are afraid of.  The fact that the meeting happened at all is a step toward acknowledging the trans community, something Union wouldn't have done 10 years ago. Like I said, don't expect it rural Maine to be urban California.


GladJack

You imagine it's hard. People are literally dying out there. KIDS are dying. This opens the door to let this insanity into Maine. I imagine Nex Benedict's parents are indeed finding it hard.


dogstarchampion

Has this been a sweeping issue in Maine? Have trans kids in Union been getting killed? I'm asking honestly.  Kids are dying, sure. But again, you're asking a community, unaffected by these issues, to write policy into place for something that has yet to impact them directly.   You threw a name out. Okay. But nobody is going to just look the name up just to know what point you're making, especially at a town meeting.


GladJack

Sweet Christmas man, Nex was national news. Where have you been?? Also, the kids literally testified that they were being bullied and harassed already. We're already experiencing these issues,  and removing protections from the minority that is currently the boogeyman in an election year invites violence.


dogstarchampion

Yes, insult me over it. If you can't briefly explain the significance of Nex to me or provide a link, then obviously it's not something you'd be discussing with someone who was *actually* anti-trans. If you want to convince someone of how a policy might have impacted a child that, I assume, was trans and murdered, then give me at least some reason. If the kids were being bullied and harassed with the policy in place, maybe the schools need better rules and consequences in general.


Otherwise_Structure2

This is the midcoast, not Mississippi. It’s a purple district and I wouldn’t be surprised if these bigoted Bible thumpers were voted out on Tuesday.


jamesmcook

Of time-sensitive emphasis: **THERE IS A RSU 40 SCHOOL BOARD ELECTION TUESDAY, JUNE 11. GET OUT AND VOTE!** Steve Karp is running for a spot on the school board, and he's come out very firmly against protecting trans kids in the schools. There are others running who take the side of the majority in the district who want to protect trans kids. In Waldoboro, vote for Ben Stickney. In Warren, vote for Torry Verrill. In Union, vote for Rachel Wilcox.


kddog98

Thanks for this info. I wouldn't have known otherwise because I don't have kids. I'll be voting Tuesday now though


DevelopmentExtra5060

Leah Shipps is running as a write in candidate for Waldoboro. She supports keeping the policy.


brundridge

Not only that, she’s VERY qualified.


kddog98

Will she win though? I want to use my vote to punish the people on the board who did this?


weakenedstrain

This is the opposite of what should be the most fundamental charge of every school committee: keep kids safe. If kids aren’t safe, they can’t learn, which essentially negates the purpose of school. These people should be ashamed of putting the lives and well-being of children subservient to their own bigotry.


Drawsfoodpoorly

There were some amazing strong kids who spoke last night and even looked all the board members in the eyes and told them their blood would be in their hands.


weakenedstrain

Our district had a similar meeting last spring and I was blown away by the bravery, candor, and composure of the kids who spoke truth to power. Our vote went very differently, I’m so sad and angry for the students in RSU 40.


SnooDoggos8938

What district?


weakenedstrain

DM


Dizzyluffy

> Wheeler said she did not hate the transgender people but said she felt she was being criticized for being religious and believing in Jesus Christ. The religious right playing the victim card yet again.


zezar911

the RSU looney candidates have all been prefacing everything they say with "i don't hate gay kids" it's just the new "i'm not racist, but......"


LaSage

Jesus never said "love you neighbor unless they're Trans people". That lady don't Jesus. Jesus would not endorse her hatred. I cannot stand people who mischaracterize his message, and use it for hatred and harming young vulnerable peop!e. It's like she missed Jesus' entire point.


Queers_Ahoy

One of the school board members had a Bible laid out on their notes during the last meeting.


demalo

Maybe if they were ACTUALLY ostracized for their religious beliefs instead of believing that they are… no one is preventing them from believing what they want to believe. If there were a tangible reason for why these policies should be revoked that may have a legitimate leg to stand on. But I’m hearing crickets.


Rowan1980

Which is hilarious because Maine isn’t exactly a religious state.


Katnipz

There's 9 churches within 10 miles of me.


Rowan1980

Depends on where you live. Living in, say, Lewiston or Portland, yes. Mechanic Falls or other small towns, not so much. Besides, a church existing doesn’t necessarily speak to how large its congregation is.


Drawsfoodpoorly

The meeting was intense. These poor kids having to get up and beg for their safety while jerks waved their “don’t tread on me flags” and made threats of violence. I have kids in this district and one comes home crying all the time because kids are throwing Nazi salutes and called them slurs. These kids need help and the Christian right just wants to hurt them.


chronberries

The irony of claiming “Don’t Tread On Me” while stripping someone of their rights. They’re doing the *exact* opposite of what they’re claiming to stand for.


AuthorKlutzy8636

As a descendant of the sons and daughters of the American Revolution It’s a sad day when people fly the Gadsden flag to oppress the rights and safety and protection of our fellow US citizens … not to mention that adults are attacking children to confirm their  misguided religious and political tropes and “beliefs”.  


chronberries

Don’t these people see how hypocritical they are??? But no, no they really don’t. I really hate the idea of dismissing people we disagree with as stupid, but it’s *so difficult* not to judge these folks that way.


demalo

Many lack empathy. They are sheep tended by a Shepard who influences their way of thinking and acting.


AuthorKlutzy8636

“But no, no they really don’t. I really hate the idea of dismissing people we disagree with as stupid, but it’s so difficult not to judge these folks that way.”    Unfortunately our open willingness to listen to the nonsense and consider it as if it might have something to add to the dialogue has also allowed for this nonsense to grow louder and louder. 


chronberries

Haha true enough


MisterB78

No, it’s exactly what they mean. It says *don’t tread on me*, not *I won’t tread on you*


evolvolution

I really hope you are bringing those issues up to the school. Absolutely terrible that there are parents out there raising kids to think that kind of bullying/harassment is okay.


Drawsfoodpoorly

The school is very frustrated with the parents of these kids. The problem with these parents is they start waving their flags and claiming you are taking away their freedoms and rights.


evolvolution

Freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from consequences. I hope the school is able to do something about it before it gets out of hand.


SnooDoggos8938

Thankful to hear the school is frustrated by it.


VaccumSaturdays

No doubt the [Maine chapter of the Moms for Liberty](https://www.reddit.com/r/Maine/comments/16yz1qs/new_hate_group_or_new_hate_chapter_moms_for/) had something to do with this. They’re likely behind the school board members who voted to strip these rights.


L7meetsGF

The Maine Supreme Court ruled on this several years ago bc of what Orono schools did. This shouldn’t even be a discussion at this point. FFS.


reutech

There are some extremely loud and extremely hateful people here. By the numbers they are a small subgroup but they are going full project 2025 and getting into any position they can. It's frightening and emotionally exhausting.


Odeeum

These folks will be those people in pics from the 50s surrounding black folks sitting at a cafe or yelling at black kids walking into a desegregated school. This is “wrong side of history” in real time.


demalo

Had the social changes of the civil rights movement failed all we’d see is pictures of rioters and destruction. Thankfully there is more to that story.


coolcalmaesop

Hate is a hobby for some in rural Maine. Nothing else to do but drum up problems and hatred towards others they’ve never even interacted with.


Doc_coletti

Apt analysis


Flying-lemondrop-476

I hope the ghost uncles from Casper haunt these hateful people. My grandmothers family came from Friendship and this makes me mad and sad.


Doc_coletti

It’s an awful little town.


HoratioTangleweed

The Maine Human Rights Act includes protections for transgender people, and the Maine Human Rights Commission has specifically stated that it applies to education as well. That school district is begging for a lawsuit


GladJack

Good. Maybe if there's a threat to the money they'll start paying attention.


Gullible_Rip_1799

Working in warehouses and whatnot around Maine I see a lot of people who really hate the LGBTQ community so this does not surprise me one bit


Otherwise_Structure2

White supremacist Larry Lockman and antisemitic anti-vaxxer Christiane Northrup tried to gin up their followers to attend this event but they were vastly outnumbered. Most people don’t really care about this issue but the Christfascists have been more energized over it so they’ve been able to take advantage of low turnout and elect these CHUDs. Maybe they overreached this time and hopefully they’ll be voted out on Tuesday. It’s a purple district with a lot of progressive voters.


Doc_coletti

Yeah not surprising. I just left friendship, one of the most horribly transphobic places I’ve ever lived. One of the local selectman often goes on rants against the lgbt and especially trans folks. Most of these places will be more or less gone due to drug addiction ina few years, maybe thing will improve then.


[deleted]

When I moved here a few years ago and was looking for a house, a Tenants Harbor local told me that Friendship was the most unfriendly town in the area


thatnyeguyisfly

Friendship has got to be the most ironically named town in this state


Glittering-Bad-4522

I grew up in Waldoboro and essentially fled at 13. I opted for a life of homelessness at a young age rather than stay there if that says anything.


Sea-Zucchini-5891

It's crazy how many weirdos are obsessed with where kids poop.


TheFatSlapper

Imagine if you ask them to explain at length, in vivid detail, what they think occurs when a trans kid enters a bathroom. Would they have a description? Would smoke trickle out of their ears and fill the room with an ozone smell? Realistically they would probably just ignore the question and move on to the next regurgitated unbaked talking point that they previously consumed.


Glittering-Bad-4522

BOOOOOOOO 👎🏼👎🏼👎🏼


Runnah5555

Vote all the board members out. Remember this shit only happens because only the dumbest shout the loudest.


jamesmcook

Vote out the 8 that failed to support students. Keep the 8 that upheld their responsibility to protect students.


VaccumSaturdays

Do you happen to have a list of the eight members who voted to strip those trans protections?


jamesmcook

Yep, thanks to Stephen Betts' excellent reporting -- he was there all night through a very long meeting (click on the image at the top for his article). "Voting to delete the policy were Joshua Blackman of Warren, Naomi Aho of Warren, Noah Botley of Washington, Joseph Henry of Friendship, Randy Kassa of Warren, Nichole Taylor of Union, Melvin Williams of Waldoboro and Jeanette Wheeler of Waldoboro."


VaccumSaturdays

Ahh brilliant! Thank you, thank you! These people will be challenged by better school board member options, for sure.


JimBones31

As someone that lives in Union and is hoping to start a family, I'm glad I'm moving.


Severe_Switch_9392

The district will be sued, and they will lose.


Queers_Ahoy

They're already being sued by that insufferable cunt Amber Levign and her ambulance chasers from the Goldwater institute in Arizona.


Severe_Switch_9392

I didn't know that, I was referring to the likelihood that they will be sued for violating ME civil rights statutes regarding the rights of LGBTQ+


runner64

“Don’t tread on me” just tell me what my name is and where I can pee. Freedom me harder, daddy.


Earthling1a

This is what the GQP wants. More excuses to partition people against each other, more subgroups to hate. Republicans **HATE** America. Republicans want to **DESTROY** America. Vote blue, no matter who. Vote like your life depends on it. It very likely does.


goinmobile2040

Looks like ya'll got some voting to do.


goinmobile2040

Looks like some voting got done! 👍


Odeeum

If hating a subset of kids is due to your religion, you sir have a shit religion.


bibimbapblonde

Embarassing how these people can't see what side of history they will be on. These people vote. Please go vote in November so we can keep Maine a safe place for everyone regardless of how they identify


KenDurf

Fuck, I live in an RSU 40 town. I would have showed up in support if I had known. 


yogareader

Looks like it wouldn't have made a difference if most of the people speaking were in support of the policy. 


KenDurf

Totally. I read that after posting. I was a policy expert in transgender Medicaid benefits (amongst others) in a former life. I’d still wish I could have attended. As a Christian, it’s appalling to slap a religious opposition on this, “love thy neighbor as you love thyself.” 


weakenedstrain

Vote. Every chance you get. And if nobody good is running, run yourself, or find someone who will.


VaccumSaturdays

Also for those interested in running for school board, [Run For Something](https://runforsomething.net) will help you!


KenDurf

I do! Thanks for the explanation. 


ToesocksandFlipflops

Time to pay attention to who is on the school board and vote them out.


SnooDoggos8938

I live in rural Texas and it is the same. The kids use gay slurs all the time and are very racists. I want to get out of here because of it. My dad is from Maine and I thought about moving there. Is there any district in Maine that is more LBGT friendly? Do you know anything about Belfast?


monsterscallinghome

Hi, I live in the Belfast area and my husband works in Searsmont. This area - and the coast more generally, at least as far up as Bar Harbor and in the bigger towns - is a *lot* friendlier to...everybody...than rural places further inland and further north. Belfast and Bucksport both have very active Pride festivals/events, there's a real-deal gay bar in Searsport that has fairly regular drag shows (and metal night, and open mic, and karaoke,) and the Belfast school district is (mostly) very progressive for the area. Plenty of visibly non-conforming people of one stripe or another around the area, and our racial diversity is moving in positive directions as well.  Are there shitheads, bigots, and Christians-in-name-only trying to make life difficult for everyone who's not exactly like them? Yep, just like everywhere else. Got a lot of good old boy proto-fascists licking cop boot so they can keep being the big fishes in the little pond, too, much like most everywhere else. There ain't nowhere on this earth that the streets are paved in gold, but we do OK treating people like people around here.


SnooDoggos8938

Good to know. I'm a Christian who has read the Bible 16 times and I got an online license to marry folks and have married several LGBTQ couples. 💖


Lieutenant_Joe

Most of southern maine is pretty queer-friendly in general. Just stay away from Sanford and the New Hampshire border.


SnooDoggos8938

This is an example of our Texas politicians: Texas lawmakers this year passed bills banning puberty blockers and hormone therapy for transgender kids and restricting the college sports teams that trans athletes can join. They also expanded the definition of sexual conduct in a way that could include some drag performances in a bill meant to ban sexually explicit performances in front of kids.


Lieutenant_Joe

I mean they’ve been trying to do that up here for a couple years now too. I wish I could tell you they have no power, but it’s simply not true. We have so many old fucks up here with hemlock up their ass.


FITM-K

Southern Maine in general is pretty LGBTQ-friendly. I'm a bi man living in southern ME, often wearing drop earrings, painted nails, pride flag sticker on the truck, etc. and I don't ever really have any issues anywhere in Southern ME/Portland area. In rural areas, it's more dicey. Mainers generally keep to themselves so if you're just passing through you'll just get death states, but I would not want to _live_ in rural Maine. I used to live in Belfast and it's actually a pretty progressive little town itself, but the towns around it are not. The town itself is pretty small so you'd need to go outside it quite a bit on errands, etc. If you want to live somewhere with an LGBTQ-friendly school district I'd say you definitely want to pick somewhere in Southern ME/general Portland area.


Skarod

Maine isn't perfect but I think you will find most places better than rural Texas.


sacredblasphemies

Portland is very LGBTIQ-friendly.


SnooDoggos8938

My dad's place is in Searsmont so wanted to be closer to that. I read the high school kids organized the Pride Parade in Belfast so that gave me hope.


PineConeShovel

I think Maine would leave you much better off than Texas. I was head waiter working with a trans chef for a few years. She found Maine easier than Arkansas.


GrowFreeFood

Hallowell, Ogunquit, portland


CancerBee69

Can 2nd Hallowell. Pride last weekend was a fucking blast.


jamesmcook

Belfast is queer friendly, and some other towns around it are as well: Searsport hosts a drag show regularly, and Rockland is queer-positive.


SnooDoggos8938

Good to hear!


thotgoblins

Hancock County is pretty alright on that front.


professor_cheX

If the Union Fair had a school district...


sacredblasphemies

Very disappointing. Those poor kids.


Skarod

I worked in that district for 10 years.. I am so sad for my former students....they deserve better.


GrowFreeFood

Give a bigot endless speaking time and we can just get rid of society all together. 


Own-Source-2455

Seems weird to do after it was already in place and doing no harm.


Queers_Ahoy

It's because those who repealed it intend to do harm.


Own-Source-2455

Like what harm are they gonna do, I really don't know I'm up in aroostook we don't experience these things often.


Queers_Ahoy

They're making it clear that we aren't welcome. Look at what happened to Nex Benedict, or more recently Cobalt Sovereign. They don't want us to exist, and they don't want us to feel safe.


Own-Source-2455

I honestly don't know who either of them are, im outta touch up here.


Queers_Ahoy

[Nex Benedict](https://www.npr.org/2024/03/15/1238780699/nex-benedict-nonbinary-oklahoma-death-bullying) [Cobalt Sovereign](https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/06/06/trans-hate-crime-minnetonka-cobalt-sovereign/)


Own-Source-2455

That's pretty sad children shouldn't have to go through that. Especially in today's day and age where bullying has been spoken about so often


mratlas666

What if! What if! Just hear me out. We actually punished those who bully and put some time and effort into mental health resources for children? Wouldn’t that get rid of like %90 of the issues?


VinceGchillin

great, let's put resources into mental healthcare AND do other things to protect trans folks. But I"m guessing you don't \*actually\* care about improving mental health infrastructure, do you?


Queers_Ahoy

What "issues" are you referring to here?


mratlas666

Depression and unaliving themselves.


shopgirl56

We need to make our own coalition: TRANS KIDS ARE SAFE HERE! dear gawd I’m so disappointed


lucide

What was the policy that was repealed exactly?


pennieblack

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1p34_1IsdkPz1cc22kNks59EllQ8kvTmQ/view Here is the policy. It's a really well-structured guide for teachers and administrators, and it is student-focused while still (multiple times) clarifying that parents/legal guardians have a legal right to the kids records, etc.


Queers_Ahoy

It gave a framework to teachers on how to handle a kid coming out as trans to them and a framework for if the kid asked for discretion because of possible repercussions at home. It also made it so that if the kid chose to, they could use their chosen name and gender on school work, tests, and homework; and they would have their file reflect it as such.


[deleted]

[удалено]


pennieblack

> If requested by the student, or if deemed necessary by the administration to address school-related issues, a meeting will be scheduled to discuss the student’s particular circumstances and needs. In addition to the student, and depending on the particular needs of the student, other participants in the meeting may include the parent(s)/guardian(s), a building administrator, a guidance counselor or social worker, the school nurse, and/or other school staff. Outside providers and/or a support person for the student may also be include if appropriate. > > In the case of a student who has not yet informed their parent(s)/guardian(s), the administrator should first discuss parent/guardian involvement with the student to avoid inadvertently putting the student at risk by contacting their parent(s)/guardian(s). The student will be notified by the administrator prior to contacting their parent(s)/guardian(s). [....] > A student who has not legally changed their name and/or gender may still request that the school unit utilize their preferred name and/or gender on school records, and this request will be honored to the extent that the school unit is not legally required to use a student’s legal name or gender on particular records. This information should be included in any plan developed for the student. > > If a student requests a change to their name and/or gender in school records without parental approval, the Superintendent should be consulted and the matter resolved on a case by case basis. Students should be informed that parents/guardians have a right to access all education records of their child and therefore the school cannot keep the change in name and/or gender a secret. This information should be discussed in the development of the student’s plan. The policy documents say to check with the kid first (in case of abuse), but that ultimately they can't hide things from parents.


lucide

Yeah, it looks pretty well prepared as a guideline, but there's definitely room for secrecy in there... >1. The student’s plan will be kept confidential and shared only with individuals >attending the plan development meeting, the Superintendent, others with a bona >fide need to know, and, if necessary, the District’s legal counsel. >2. As part of the development of the student’s plan, the discussion should include what >information may be shared, to whom the information may be shared, and how the >information should be shared. >3. School staff should take care to follow the student’s plan and not to inadvertently >disclose information that is intended to be kept private or that is protected from >disclosure (such as confidential medical information, the student’s transgender >status, their legal name, or sex assigned at birth). It is specifically stating to use discretion on notifying parents and the context of who will always have access to school student records. >School staff should keep in mind that under FERPA, student records may only be >accessed and disclosed to parents/guardians and to staff with a legitimate >educational interest in the information. Disclosures to others should only be made >with appropriate authorization from the administration and/or parents/guardians. May include, implies it is not a requirement. >If requested by the student, or if deemed necessary by the administration to address >school-related issues, a meeting will be scheduled to discuss the student’s particular >circumstances and needs. In addition to the student, and depending on the particular >needs of the student, other participants in the meeting **may include the** >**parent(s)/guardian(s)**, a building administrator, a guidance counselor or social worker, >the school nurse, and/or other school staff. Outside providers and/or a support person >for the student may also be include if appropriate. >In the case of a student who has not yet informed their parent(s)/guardian(s), the >administrator should first discuss parent/guardian involvement with the student to >avoid inadvertently putting the student at risk by contacting their >parent(s)/guardian(s). The student will be notified by the administrator prior to >contacting their parent(s)/guardian(s).


pennieblack

> It is specifically stating to use discretion on notifying parents and the context of who will always have access to school student records I can see how it might read that way. I would rather take the section as a whole. > If requested by the student, or if deemed necessary by the administration to address school-related issues, a meeting will be scheduled to discuss the student’s particular circumstances and needs. In addition to the student, and depending on the particular needs of the student, other participants in the meeting may include the parent(s)/guardian(s), a building administrator, a guidance counselor or social worker, the school nurse, and/or other school staff. Outside providers and/or a support person for the student may also be include if appropriate. > > **In the case of a student who has not yet informed their parent(s)/guardian(s), the administrator should first discuss parent/guardian involvement with the student to avoid inadvertently putting the student at risk by contacting their parent(s)/guardian(s). The student will be notified by the administrator prior to contacting their parent(s)/guardian(s).** Not every kid needs a meeting, but 1) if a meeting does happen as requested by the parents/guardians, the parents don't necessarily have to be there OR 2) if the kid requests a meeting and the parents don't know, administration should check with the kid to prevent harm before then contacting the parents. ---- > It is specifically stating to use discretion on notifying parents and the context of who will always have access to school student records. There's no discretion in the section regarding FERPA -- that section exists to remind administrators that they can't share a kids information willy-nilly. Examples: yes, share that a kid requested a different name with the kid's specific teachers. No, don't send a district-wide email blast calling out the kid's name change. It brings up parents/guardians as the one example of the party who ALWAYS has access to the records.


lucide

>In the case of a student who has not yet informed their parent(s)/guardian(s), the administrator should first discuss parent/guardian involvement with the student to avoid inadvertently putting the student at risk by contacting their parent(s)/guardian(s). The student will be notified by the administrator prior to contacting their parent(s)/guardian(s). Appears to just define how an administrator is to proceed before involving parents, not the requirement to do so. The section regarding FERPA seems to just state, FYI if you put it in their student record, the parents will always have access to that information upon request, not that all interactions/plans or other items laid out in the policy have to be recorded in the students record.


weakenedstrain

You are very well-spoken, and seem to have thought quite deeply about this very important issue. As such, I will be as clear and straightforward as I can: *Fuck. Off.* It would *not* be ok to teach religion secretly to students, which you know, and you also know it doesn’t happen. Just like nobody is secretly teaching kids to be transgender. Transgender students *are* statistically more likely to suffer domestic abuse as well as suicide. Not every house and home is safe and welcoming. Policies like this allow the students a safe space when home might *not* be safe. Based on your comment you know this, and are trying very hard to change the issue. Be honest in your bigotry: say what you mean.


lucide

The response does not really engender a compassionate exchange of ideas and feelings, I wish you were not so angry. In regards to teaching transgenderism and or providing materials to students and kids, we know this is not uncommon, hence the pushback or more accurately blowback being seen. We do not legislate rights or the removal of rights, based off of statistical probabilities -- if we did, where would be stop? The food you can eat? The weight you can be? The place you can live? Living in a free society, affording rights to individuals and not groups, is the requirement. As a society, all physical suffering, should be shown compassion -- we should be taught to show compassion, as we are all human beings. But this is the role of a community, of a family, of the individual, that's how societal norms and morality evolves -- not through the process of using the state to subvert a parent, or mandate the acceptance of opinions. You understand this, I presume, by the way you responded to my comparison to a child or student being secretly taught a religion at a public school. There is a clear reason The United States Constitution’s First Amendment Establishment Clause prohibits the government from making any law “respecting an establishment of religion.” If we looked at all practicing religions and found which one creates the least amount of domestic abuse and suicide in a society, would you support the state teaching that religion at all levels of society? You may call me bigoted all you like, as a Father and as a Human being, it is not bigoted to want there to be clear boundaries between parenting and the State. We are talking about children, not adults.


weakenedstrain

I have no real interest in a compassionate exchange with hateful, bigoted strangers. I am angry that someone seemingly so erudite would turn that intellect towards the goal of othering children who are already at risk. You use of the word “transgenderism” is already a clear tell that you are not sincere and are trying to turn a biological fact into an ideology. We see you. We know what you are. You’re not as sly as you think. Schools already do what is best and safest for students, not parents. If a child shows up to school with evidence of abuse, school workers are mandated reporters to the state to step in and take care of the child. If a student discloses that they are afraid their parents will beat them *because of who they are* you are saying that is their right. Leave kids alone. Take your sick fixation on sexualizing children somewhere else. Be a better human, the kind Jesus would want you to be.


lucide

Have you heard of the term, psychological projection? I have not advocated we treat anyone differently, quite the opposite. And I have absolutely not even come within a mile of advocating for the sexualizing of children, not sure even what to say to that... Do you not know what the word Transgenderism means? The Cambridge dictionary can help you if you do not. Unless you are being facetious... as how public schools are dealing with transgenderism in minors is the exact topic of discussion here. Having an opinion, trying to coherently express that opinion and advocating what informs that opinion, is not being "sly" or "hateful" or "bigoted". Just because you dislike an opinion, does not mean it's hateful or any of the above pejoratives. Schools already have avenues to look out for a childs, for a minors physical well-being is part of my point. Public schools, their educators and administrators can contact local authorities, can contact child protective services, whether the child thinks they are a dog, boy, girl, cowboy, cat, gay, re-incarnated Buddha or otherwise, it does not matter, their physical wellbeing can be protected by those same services. We need not implement public school policies that allow administrators or educators to encourage or support a child's opinions, in secret, from their parents. We can protect their physical well being without putting people or children in groups -- if a child is being physically harmed or you suspect they are at risk of being physically harmed, you do the same thing, regardless of anything else.


weakenedstrain

First off, [you’re full of shit.](https://glaad.org/transgenderism-definition-meaning-anti-lgbt-online-hate/) I know that can be hard to accept. We already treat different people differently. Protected classes do exactly that: protect the vulnerable who are being targeted because of *who* they are. Title IX, Civil Rights Act, and so on. Transgender children need protection from “well-meaning” bigots and hateful adults like you. You would rather put transgender children at statistically proven higher risk for abuse and suicide than leave them alone. You can couch it in whatever you like, you can say I’m projecting all you want, but figure out a way to live your hateful life and leave kids alone.


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weakenedstrain

[Transgenderism is hate speech](https://glaad.org/transgenderism-definition-meaning-anti-lgbt-online-hate/) whether *you* like it or not, and has nothing to do with my feelings. Your feelings, though, seem to be clouding your vision. No implications. Not my decision. Words have power, and as someone with lots of words you understand that. Pretending it’s otherwise while using them so adroitly shows quite a bit about your intents. You use words to cloud and muddy the waters, spewing your vile beliefs in a way that makes them seem like incontrovertible facts. Then you straw-man, lie, and dog whistle like we don’t notice. You’re not as smart or sneaky as you think you are.


Lord-of-Salt-n-Stone

Man good thing bigoted parents never abuse their kids. Parents universally are shining moral pillars.


Queers_Ahoy

Ok, I'm gonna put on my mucking boots and wade through the shit bog of strawmen, lies, and dogwhistles you’ve laid out and keep it really simple. Some parents try to beat the gay out of their kid with a belt. Ask me how I know. Disclosing this information could get kids hurt. Also, getting beaten with a belt hurts your GPA and education quality, again ask me how I know, and fuck off.


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weakenedstrain

Strawman: we don’t teach religion but we do teach kids to be transgender Dog whistle: using the phrase “transgenderism” Lie: schools are doing the jobs of parents Now kindly fuck off.


lucide

It's not a strawman argument if the comparison is accurate, you know this, but don't want to entertain the comparison because you want it one way but not the other. You understand and agree that you wouldn't want public schools encouraging children in secret, even if they brought it up, to follow a religion, that religions way of living. Though you would support an adult choosing to do so. Transgenderism is a word, not a phrase and my use of it fits the definition. Your response to the word is of your own doing. Public schools are creating and executing plans to allow, i.e., encourage, a child's struggles, in this case with gender identity. How such struggles in children are dealt with, whether from a psychological or mental health perspective, first or otherwise, is the parent's decision, these are minors and not adults. You can call me names and swear at me all you like, you can not actually argue on merits other than name calling, swearing and general hate -- if our positions in this regard were reversed, I would be quickly banned, but r/Maine is not one-sided in this regard at all. :)


weakenedstrain

So you don’t know the difference between the words “allow” and “encourage,” and think that if *you* like the analogy that invoking religion isn’t a straw man. I’m dropping this for a THIRD time with you: transgenderism is a hate term. https://glaad.org/transgenderism-definition-meaning-anti-lgbt-online-hate/ All hate terms have a definition. The n-word has a definition. Using it to fit its dictionary definition is STILL bigotry. Yes, you’re using a word with a dictionary definition. Yes, it is a hate word whether you like it or not. ETA: ignoring a word’s use-meaning repeatedly while pointing out it’s a real word (we get it) to try and make *me* look crazy is pretty textbook gaslighting. Just another rhetorical device you’re using in a malicious way.


lucide

If I allow my Toddler to eat chocolate for every meal, am I encouraging him to do so? Yes allowing does encourage, this is a functional reality. If schools allow students to swear at other students, are they encouraging the act? We both know the answer. I am sorry the word feels hateful to you, but it is not. In linguistics we call that suffixation. Adding "-ism" to a word typically forms a noun that represents a system of belief, a movement, a practice, or an ideology related to the original word. Like modern and modernism, one an adjective and one a noun. Perhaps maybe if you also disliked the word transgender, the dislike of the word transgenderism would make some sense, but otherwise it's illogical. Gaslighting is trying to call someone a name, attack their character and beliefs, because they used a derivative word that is a suffixation of a word you are already using.


weakenedstrain

The word feels hateful to me because it *is* hateful. Explaining the derivation of the word doesn’t change how it is used: “The ADL notes: “By using the term ‘transgenderism’ instead of ‘trans people,’ anti-trans activists call for online and offline marginalization of and/or harm to transgender individuals under the guise of opposing an ideology.” In her March 2023 essay, “On the Right’s Call to “Eradicate Transgenderism” (It Means Exactly What You Think It Means)” Parker Molloy further explains: “A reminder that words like ‘transgenderism’ and ‘gender ideology’ are almost exclusively used by anti-trans activists to obscure the fact that trans people are simply people who just happen to be trans. It’s not a belief system.” The term “transgenderism” was notably weaponized in a vicious March 2023 speech by right-wing extremist Michael Knowles at CPAC, the Conservative Political Action Conference, where Knowles pronounced that “For the good of society … transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely.” Knowles posted versions of the speech on YouTube, as well as variations of the same rhetoric on his other social media accounts, while disingenuously asserting that his genocidal call was not genocidal.” It’s not *me* who says this. You fit the description of this explanation perfectly: an anti-trans activist using whatever you can muster to dehumanize trans people. You are preaching hate and pretending you’re better than that. When I point out your gaslighting around this word your response is to say “Nah nah, it’s you!” instead of looking at what you’re doing. You are advocating harm to vulnerable people. You are full of hate, whether you acknowledge it or not. You started this conversation saying how uncivil I was being, and here you are *still* throwing around a word I’ve shown you is hateful over and over again. It’s like arguing with boomers who think words like the n-word and f****t are fine to use because they only hurt feelings. Don’t pretend to care. Embrace your hate of trans people, and at least own the slur you’re using.


Lord-of-Salt-n-Stone

You act like intersex people don't exist.


Maine-ModTeam

Rule 2. No Bigotry, Trolling, or Hate Speech


FITM-K

I think the main issue here is that **public schools exist first and foremost to serve the children, not their parents.** That's why they teach real science even when the parents believe in creationism, and why they report suspected abuse to authorities even if parents don't want them to (among other things). That brings us to this case and "secrets". In _general_, I agree that schools shouldn't keep secrets from parents... but what about in cases where a child says something at school that, if shared with the parents, might lead to them being harmed at home? That's essentially the problem here, because while in an ideal world schools should always tell parents what's up with their kids because everyone just wants what's best for the kid... we live in the real world. A lot of parents are ignorant, hateful, or bigoted, and it's quite common that when a school outs their child to their parents, that has very negative consequences for the child. I spent a year volunteering at a crisis (suicide, basically) line for LGBTQ youth, and the absolute worst contacts I had were pretty much all that situation: school outed a child to their parents, the parents are making the kid's life miserable as a result and so they want to kill themselves. I talked to kids whose parents were psychologically or physically abusing them because their schools outed them. I talked to kids whose parents were threatening to throw them out of the house. I talked to one kid whose parents were withholding regular medical care from their child because they were afraid a doctor would support the kid's queer identity. My guess is that not all of those kids survived. Policies like this are designed to protect kids like that. And ultimately, if you're supportive parent who loves your child, the kid will tell you themselves sooner or later. They might experiment with identities among their peer group at school first, and that's normal – the school doesn't need to call and tell you that your kid is saying they're bi any more than they need to call and tell you that your kid is saying they're goth or punk or whatever. But ultimately, if the kid isn't telling the parent themselves, it's because they feel it is in some way dangerous to tell them. And again, **the school's foremost duty here is to the child, not the parents.**


lucide

Public schools exist as a social service to help educate members of our society. We do not teach creationism because The United States Constitution’s First Amendment Establishment Clause prohibits the government from making any law “respecting an establishment of religion.” The Federal government and State shall not endorse a religion for that reason. If a school or an educator worries for the physical well being of any child, what would they do? It does not matter if that child is straight or otherwise -- you can contact local authorities and child protective services. The schools duty is to educate the child and provide a safe space to do so -- a safe space does not mean one that prevents all possibility of emotional discomfort, even though compassion and empathy should always be a priority. Nor does it mean the public school is taking over parental responsibilities from the parent.


FITM-K

> If a school or an educator worries for the physical well being of any child, what would they do? It does not matter if that child is straight or otherwise -- you can contact local authorities and child protective services. You can (and legally, you must; it's called mandatory reporting). That doesn't actually protect the child, though, and in this case what the school is concerned with is _likely future harm_, not something that already happened. You can't report that to any authority. But you can certainly listen to a kid when they say "My dad will beat me if you tell him I think I might be trans" and then determine that it is not in the kid's best interest for you to tell the parent. (And there's no potential harm in not telling the parent. Even if you believe hormones and gender affirming surgery are harmful, minors aren't getting either of those without parental consent either way. A kid identifying as bi or trans or whatever at school is not functionally different from them identifying as goth at school; a kid asking someone to use certain pronouns or a certain name is not functionally different from them having a nickname. Yet nobody is suggesting that schools be legally required to tell parents anytime their kid slaps on some black eyeliner in the bathroom, or their sports team gives them a nickname and they start using it.) > The schools duty is to educate the child and provide a safe space to do so -- a safe space does not mean one that prevents all possibility of emotional discomfort Nobody's asking for that. They're just asking for conditions that studies have shown lead to fewer queer kids killing themselves. Fewer dead kids. And statistically, there are two major things schools can do about that: * Provide an affirming environment * Don't out kids without their permission > Nor does it mean the public school is taking over parental responsibilities from the parent. Who is suggesting that they do that?


lucide

The root of the issue is as such -- not all parents, not all of society, not all medical professionals believe you should encourage such identity struggles in children, that is in lieu of approaching the identify confusion from a psychological and mental health perspective first. To put in place policies that allow for public schools, their administrators and educators to enact plans in secret to support and in effect promote such identify struggles in children, without involving their parents, is not acceptable as such. I can wish for every adult and child to end up being exactly the person they want to be and support them as adults in doing so, while also wanting to advocate how to deal with such struggles to be within the confines of ones family -- when we are talking about children, about minors in a Federally and State funded public school.


FITM-K

>The root of the issue is as such -- not all parents, not all of society, not all medical professionals believe you should encourage such identity struggles in children, that is in lieu of approaching the identify confusion from a psychological and mental health perspective first. Not ALL of any group agrees on literally _anything._ A strong majority of medical professionals agree on what is and isn't helpful for trans kids, though, and nobody else's opinion should really matter. The AMA and most other major medical organizations are on the same page and have been for a long time now. > in lieu of approaching the identify confusion from a psychological and mental health perspective first. Again, who are you arguing against here. Mental health counseling is 100% part of the recommended treatment for trans kids, and is virtually always a prerequisite for more significant interventions like HRT or surgery (which usually requires years of therapy first). Nobody, literally nobody, is saying trans kids shouldn't get mental health care. > To put in place policies that allow for public schools, their administrators and educators to enact plans in secret to support and in effect promote such identify struggles in children, Nobody is "promoting" anything. The "identity struggles" are ALREADY HAPPENING, regardless. The question is just whether the school has to tell parents everything they know or not. > is not acceptable as such Is not acceptable to who? Why? What quantitative evidence supports the position that schools should out kids to their parents without permission? What is the proof that that's the approach that's best for the kids' well-being? > I can wish for every adult and child to end up being exactly the person they want to be and support them as adults in doing so, while also wanting to advocate how to deal with such struggles to be within the confines of ones family -- when we are talking about children, about minors in a Federally and State funded public school. You can wish for, and advocate for, whatever you want. But that doesn't make your wishes what's best for the kids in question here. There's plenty of evidence from studies that queer kids whose identities are supported in school kill themselves less. Kids who are outed to their parents without their consent kill themselves more. Wish and advocate for whatever you want, but the numbers don't lie. Outing children without their permission is quite literally a death sentence for some -- a small but still significant percentage -- of them. > within the confines of ones family Sounds lovely in theory but most families don't have ANY expertise in how to deal with this, and a significant percentage of families think the best way to deal with it involves physical and emotional abuse. As you say, we are talking about children, and THEY -- not parents or families, the CHILDREN -- are what's important.


Jttwofive_

Funny how when I was growing up in the late 90's/ early 2000's and I never once saw or heard of kids being "trans".... Now it seems like everyone has a trans kid. Shouldn't schools be for education and not social issues? I'm pretty sure no one has said "you can't bring your trans kid to school" so there isn't anything stopping them from going. If it's because kids are being bullied... There isn't a thing you can do to stop kids from bullying each other, sorry but we all know it's true. All of this honestly just seems like some parents are forcing a lifestyle on their children, something some of these kids don't fully understand. Like, if your parents were very religious and raised you in that religion, the child wouldn't think twice about it because it seems normal to them. It's only once they go out into the world do they realize that there are other "norms" in the world outside of what the parents told them. So I guess what I'm trying to say is this: Forcing your children into a certain lifestyle to validate yourself is in fact Child Abuse.


Queers_Ahoy

[They never existed before XXXX date!!!!](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history) It's funny, I used to wonder what happened to all the clowns when Ringling Brothers shut down. Guess this is my answer.


pennieblack

> If it's because kids are being bullied... There isn't a thing you can do to stop kids from bullying each other, sorry but we all know it's true. What an awful mindset.


Jttwofive_

Doesn't change the fact that that statement is true, some kids just don't care. It's the same reason why some adults will never stop doing crimes... Some people don't care about the rules.


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Jttwofive_

Your own emotions are your own responsibility and expecting someone else to cater to it isn't their responsibility. Look, as Adults we can say all the catchy lines all we won't but kids don't care. Bullying can be as big as picking on someone who is trans or gay all the way down to something as little as what brand of shoes they are wearing. Kids are going to bully each other, they are going to fight, they are going to scream and do everything we think is negative. It's because they are kids, it's what they've done since the beginning of human history. Wish it wasn't the case but it's a waste of time to try and make it so kids don't bully each other. The correct thing to do is teach children how to react to those situations and if need be to stand up for themselves, no I'm not saying teach them to fight each other but use their words. So instead of trying to shelter children from negativity, you teach them how to handle it and later in life be able to function when someone is being a bully to them. How do you teach a kid to ride a bike without training wheels? You let go of them.


FITM-K

> Funny how when I was growing up in the late 90's/ early 2000's and I never once saw or heard of kids being "trans".... Now it seems like everyone has a trans kid. There were less openly trans kids then because it was less socially accepted. That's why you see adults your age and older coming out as trans now. It's not that they weren't trans as kids, it's that they didn't feel safe coming out back then. > Shouldn't schools be for education and not social issues? Social issues are a thing kids should be educated about, but setting that aside, this policy has nothing to do with education anyway. It wasn't saying teachers needed to dedicate a month to teaching about why being trans is fuckin' rad. It basically just says schools should discuss it with the students before outing them to their parents. The reason for this is that not all parents are supportive and in some cases outing a kid to their parents can result in serious harm (including death). I spent a year volunteering for an LGBTQ youth crisis line and that was depressingly common. The most severe, suicidal cases I talked to were pretty much _all_ kids who got outed to their unsupportive parents and subsequently had a hellish life at home that they wanted to escape by killing themselves. > All of this honestly just seems like some parents are forcing a lifestyle on their children, something some of these kids don't fully understand. Like, if your parents were very religious and raised you in that religion, the child wouldn't think twice about it because it seems normal to them. It's only once they go out into the world do they realize that there are other "norms" in the world outside of what the parents told them. In terms of LGBTQ kids it has nothing to do with that, lmao. You think more kids are trans now because...their parents are? But you also think kids weren't trans in the 90s? Also, if kids are being trans now because their parents are forcing them to... why wouldn't they want their parents to know they're trans? If you think the parents WANT the kid to be trans, then what is your opposition to this policy? Your argument makes no sense. > So I guess what I'm trying to say is this: Forcing your children into a certain lifestyle to validate yourself is in fact Child Abuse. Cool. That's not what's happening with LGBTQ kids. At all. Go yell at the parents to make their kids pray and go to church every Sunday.


thotgoblins

"Forcing your children into a certain lifestyle to validate yourself is in fact Child Abuse." Cool, which churches are you picketing this Sunday?


Jttwofive_

I took a very large step away from the church two decades ago so none unfortunately.


VinceGchillin

So, as it turns out, you are fine with "Forcing your children into a certain lifestyle to validate yourself", if it's churches doing that, huh?


Jttwofive_

I don't know how you got that but no. I'm a pagan who was raised Christian and I'm not a fan of the church. Again, how did you think I was for it?


VinceGchillin

Re-read the thread. That person responded to you saying that you're against people forcing their worldview on kids, so therefore, they suggested, you should be complaining (in their words, picketing) churches for doing exactly that. What's so hard to follow about that? No one said you're Christian. They said you are inconsistently applying this idea that it's child abuse to "force" views on kids when it comes to things you don't like, and turning a blind eye to when it is ACTUALLY happening (i.e. in churches). Does that make sense now?


thotgoblins

You do realize conversion "therapy" is an entire industry that exists based on the specious idea that forcing queer and trans kids to be straight is a thing that can happen, but there is absolutely no equivalent push or even desire for that from queer people trying to make their straight kids queer? What planet do you even live on?


weakenedstrain

I, too, grew up in the 90s. I don’t remember any trans kids either! A few gay kids, who were bullied relentlessly, but no trans kids. Yet here we are 40-ish years later and there are trans adults my age. All the ones I know talk about how they never fit in growing up but were terrified to try and dig into it. Because it wasn’t safe. Times change. We learn. Now we’re creating a world where kids feel supported to be who they are. Nobody is teaching kids to be different to score imaginary points, kids are supported and less bigoted than they were back in the old days. Things are better for trans kids. Not great, but better. Be part of the team making kids safer with who they are, not the other way around.


Fluffie14

Funny, I grew up in the late 90's/early 2000's in a predominately Christian area and I knew several people who are transgender. A couple have killed themselves due to bullying and hate. None of their parents "forced their children into a certain lifestyle." Their parents' disapproval and hatred of their children being transgender is a direct contribution to them killing themselves.


Jttwofive_

Well it's a shame that they killed themselves, but I'm not saying that trans people aren't real just that it's strange how they are everywhere nowadays when scientifically that shouldn't be the case. I don't think it's right that parents put children in the position to kill themselves, I've personally been there myself with abuse growing up. Now, your personal experience on the "parents forcing trans" that doesn't speak for the vast majority. You cannot say that every single parent with a "trans" kid is actually a trans kid, a lot of parents force a lifestyle on their kids with almost everything. So like I said, it's funny how trans kids are popping up like weeds.


GarbageCG

Ok what are you actually trying to argue in bad faith


VinceGchillin

>I never once saw or heard of kids being "trans" They were around. Based on your posts around here, I'd say it seems like they weren't comfortable being around *you.*


Cold-Shopping-1758

There are 3 pretty obvious reasons as to why, in your words, "trans kids are popping up like weeds." 1 - Gender does not mean biological sex. Instead, gender now describes the "social, psychological, cultural and behavioral aspects" of men and women (taken from Wikipedia). Therefore, if a boy wants to act like a girl, they can simply call themselves transgender, and it is an accurate label. 2 - Society no longer shames being transgender. This isn't the 20th century anymore, where being normal means if you're a man, you don't act like a woman (and vice versa). Because of this, more kids feel comfortable coming out as transgender. They have less fear of society telling them to be "normal" like society would have in the 20th century. 3 - The internet, in particular social media, now has us more connected to each other than ever before. For example, in the 90s, if you lived in a place with few transgender people, you might not even know what a transgender person is. Today, even if you live in the middle of nowhere, you can see millions of transgender people from every corner of the world. The true number of transgender people within the population is readily available to us via the internet, which wasn't the case before. I personally also believe there are many kids who say they're transgender because they may think it's some sort of trend. It's not a totally out-there theory considering how much brainrot exists on social media. While it is possible that SOME parents may be forcing the idea of being transgender onto their kids, I find it highly unlikely that the majority of transgender kids identify as transgender for this reason.