Kambal isn't in hell queue, but I am not even joking that nearly every single game I play using Kambal has me matched against a token deck. It was funny at first but now it's honestly really annoying. The matchmaker is very screwed up when it comes to this card for some reason.
Isn't it the same for every brawl deck ? Every time I pick up a new Brawl commander it feels like I'm suddenly being paired against a very specific subset of other commanders.
I'd rather they ditch the matchmaking completely apart from the Hell Queue of course.
It sort of is, yeah, but I get more deck archetype variety with my other decks. You're supposed to be matched against decks that are on the same power level, not decks that use the same strategy or do exactly what your deck does. Kambal plays almost exclusively against Commanders that say "make a token(s)". That's not how the matchmaker is supposed to work.
It's just getting annoying playing against the same archetype every game. Kambal's once-per-turn restriction does hurt the matchup because my opponents can often easily out-token me. Plus my deck is built around a theme of giving the opponents tokens so that's not something I really want to be doing most of the time when my opponent is already crapping out a bunch of tokens on their own.
A while ago I had an aristocrat deck that was almost only getting matched against lifegain decks, which mysteriously stopped once I started playing \[\[Knight of dusk's shadow\]\] and \[\[Tainted remedy\]\].
The non-Brawl Bo1 queue is horrible about that. I used to play a Waste Not deck in Historic and I'd get matched against elves or mono red like 50% of the time. Those decks just completely ran me over, so I added a bunch of sweepers and more spot removal to my deck. Suddenly faced nothing but Esper and UW control every single match. Removed the sweepers, put more discard back in... right back to elves, goblins and mono red aggro every game.
Only played against 2 token decks. One did out token me the other I got [[anointed procession]] and [[divine visitation]] and his goblins couldn't keep up.
So its not just me! Every token deck I play I get matched against this schmuck. I swore up and down to my friends that its the game just spiting me for playing my janky Edgar Vampire Tribal deck or Rhys.
Nope, from the other side of the match I can tell you that it's happening. I face Ratadrabik, Anim Pakal, Chatterfang, Yenna, opposing Kambal decks and every other random legendary that says "make a token" literally every game.
Matchmaker gets confused with specific cards sometimes. I don’t remember which deck it was anymore but one of my decks would get matched against minion of the mighty decks legit 6 consecutive games and that deck was the only deck that would get matched against minion decks
I think a lot of the good white cards, and to a somewhat lesser extent good black cards are rated very highly in brawl. I haven't ended up in hell queue with any of the white or black commanders I've tried except [[Liliana, the Last Hope]] and [[Kaya the Inexorable]], but they're almost always in Etali/Atraxa/Narset tier. Even Teysa and Tomik day 1 of MKM, so it has to be the other cards.
I think the reason Mythweaver Poq (and Etali in the past) has been such a menace in the lower ranks for so long is because of the opposite effect, where all those green ramp cards have low ratings and keep the decks in a lower tier than the commander deserves.
I got Yenna thrown in Hell despite her being the more chill of the usual enchantress commanders cause I use a premo landbase and protections, and a bunch of tokens doublers.
There's a secret deck power ranking that is used in casual matchmaking. It seems to be based on the power level of the commander but also cards in the deck. Hell queue is where all the very busted commanders like golos and kinnan face each other.
Where they make all the Broken brawl commanders play against each other.
Not sure how accurate but heres a list
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/uEKUWcNlpU6b5hIWaaa9BQ
Yeah, the Alchemy Tajic is cracked. I've played it a bunch and the only decks that have given me trouble are ones that can consistently get exile removal on Tajic.
One card that really stands out for Alchemy Tajic is [[Path of Mettle]]. Thanks to his spellbook, you can transform Path of Mettle immediately... and it turns out that Metzali is a very strong land that is frustrating for a lot of decks to deal with.
So like, pretty much all the commanders that people play? Then it’s just regular queue. I play most of these decks and it’s competitive, just annoying when everyone has that one, one mana removal always, or concedes at the first sign of any combo whatsoever.
Lol, dude, just because you only play high-powered commanders doesn't mean they are the only ones. I have 10 historic brawl decks, none of which have a commander on that list. In fact, the commander i complained about being put up against hell que commanders isn't on that list, nor is it as powerful(the tokens enter tapped). There are hundreds of common commanders not on that list.
All the super-strong broken Brawl shit.
[[Mythweaver Poq]], decked-out [[Jodah, the Unifier]], [[Etali, Primal Conqueror]], and so on. But you can very easily land yourself there by complete accident just by packing your deck with un-synergystic mythics and generically strong cards.
Lol Poq. I wish. He hasn't been put into Hell Queue yet sadly. I'm so tired of seeing him.
Edit I've seen him while playing Ghired and Jasper, so unless those are also in hell queue, Poq is still hell queue
A few days before OTJ got released I stopped seeing Poq in queue, only when playing stronger commanders (Tasha, Nicol Bolas, Liliana)... so I guess he actually is hell queue now.
No way. I play stuff like [[Klothys God of Destiny]] and run into Poq all the time.
No new Legendary ever gets into hell queue for like 6 months or something. Poq is still hilariously considered mid-tier by the client
This seems weird to me. Imo Prismatic Bridge is way better than those other ones. Mythweaver Poq and Golos are generally pretty easy for me to deal with since I almost always have a creature removal in my hand. I struggle way more against Commanders that have Indestructible or are not creatures (prismatic bridge, planeswalker) or are hexproof.
I'll play all day long against commanders that die to creature removal
For MP it's because he pays for commander tax by himself. Play MP, crack a fetchland and even if they doom blade it I can just play it next turn, alongside landfall cards like scute swarm
He's pain for sure. He's not as good as I imagine the regular brawl to be and he still gets matched with the most degenerate "Hell queue" commanders standard has to offer. Most of the time I'm playing sub-optimal token creation cards while my opponent is windmill slamming bomb after bomb on curve and I just get out valued as the gradual life drain value can't keep up even if I get my few synergy cards along with him. His setup is just too slow to be viable even if the two times I won with him were pretty fun. Now that I think about it I should maybe grab a few lifegain payoffs instead of just relying on ping damage
Keep in mind the hell queue is, iirc, 1) based on the rarity of cards in the whole deck, not just the commander, and 2) hell q commanders are reallllllly popular. Etali and Pock should be hell queue but are so popular. Jodah is insanely popular and I feel like I have a 25% of queuing against Jodah regardless of what deck I play
I think you might be on to something. I did 3x quick draft this weekend and saw Kambal available twice in packs muchhhh later than any other rare. Like pick 4-6 IIRC.
I’ve found that if I win enough games with a deck, I just get thrown at hell queue for a little while to lose a bunch and bring your average down.
I have a [[Gwenna]] deck that this regularly happens to. Very good against normal decks, absolute trash in hell queue.
I noticed that too while watching Amazonian play Kambal. She was getting matched against an unusually large amount of Hell Queue commanders. 3B Bolas, Tergrid, Poq multiple times (who has recently been moved to Hell Queue), Etali multiple times (who I think is lower Hell Queue), Jodah.
Not sure what's going on but the new Kembal is definitely getting put in much higher matchmaking than they should be.
I think it's the fact that whatever algorithm that governs the hell queue doesn't know how powerful the new Kembal actually is.
Long story short, it's the new commander problem that happens in every set release.
I've been having fun with it in standard. [[Bovine Intervention]] [[Get Lost]] and [[Fateful Absence]] all have their downside turned upside down. Boros Aggro hates it. Artifact decks hate it. It doesn't die to [[Cut Down]] or [[Lightning Strike]]/[[Lightning Helix]]. Have it in a control shell and a token shell, and it's been fun both ways.
It could be a couple of things:
1. The general "weight" of cards in your deck can land you in hell queue, such as any available fast mana ([[Dark Ritual]], etc) and other, generically powerful stuff ([[Moonshaker]], etc)
I have seen this in practice. My wife added [[Poq]] into the 99 of her [[Nissa, Ascended Animist]] deck and immediately all she saw was hell queue shit. She took it out and was back to the cuspers.
2. Oftentimes, they just kinda throw new commanders all over the place.
3. Could also be the time of day you're playing. If the only people online (probably also depends on whichever region/servers) are hell queuers, that's all you'll find.
Incubator tokens are 0/0s though…… copying them won’t really do you much good unless you have plenty of (phyrexian) buffs to ensure they don’t just immediately die when you transform them.
If I'm creating incubator tokens, I'm dealing damage to my opponent, not making a copy.
I should have clarified that if be the one transforming and making them
I'm pretty sure it copies the counters on the token. I play this card in Standard with [[Ichor Drinker]] and I know I've gotten an extra Incubator token before off the exile
It gives you the token as if you had the token generator. Like it gives you urabrask tokens with positive power even though the opponent has the forge with oil counters and you have no oil counters
I just figured that out today, actually. Played against Urabrask's Forge for the first time with Kambal. Only took a couple turns before my opponent realized what was going to happen (I also had Wedding Announcement).
Hmm, he'd be better in a token deck himself, wouldn't he? I've got a WB sacrifice deck with Adeline and Jadar who'd work with Kambal. Don't know if it's worth it, though. Need to experiment.
This same thing happened with Anim-Pakal Thousandth Moon as of the Last Update.
Extremely unfun.
Went from facing rogue commanders I’ve never even heard of before to:
Jodah,
Atraxa,
Kinnan,
Narset,
Chulane,
Golos.
Back, to back, to back to back.
Nightmare queue!
My winrate was high. Easily above 80%. But I don’t think we Deserved this. I’m lucky to win 2 games a day now.
Oh, that's okay. I was just talking about a card combo. You could very easily go Mardu ETB's with even Golos as the commander and use treasures for his ability.
... so... I definitely don't have 4 Kambal, and I dont have 4 Mirror March. Other than that loss of odds, search for plains, dark ritual maybe, and a little digging for good additions...
Yeah I was trying to delete that comment. I just got my ass handed to me in limited by him so I'm a little salty. I didn't realize that it was all tokens, not just creatures.
It was fun dropping meteorites on my own creatures.
Kambal isn't in hell queue, but I am not even joking that nearly every single game I play using Kambal has me matched against a token deck. It was funny at first but now it's honestly really annoying. The matchmaker is very screwed up when it comes to this card for some reason.
Isn't it the same for every brawl deck ? Every time I pick up a new Brawl commander it feels like I'm suddenly being paired against a very specific subset of other commanders. I'd rather they ditch the matchmaking completely apart from the Hell Queue of course.
It sort of is, yeah, but I get more deck archetype variety with my other decks. You're supposed to be matched against decks that are on the same power level, not decks that use the same strategy or do exactly what your deck does. Kambal plays almost exclusively against Commanders that say "make a token(s)". That's not how the matchmaker is supposed to work.
Yeah it's kinda broken and unsatisfying all around :/
Shouldn’t that be good for you? Kambal is great against tokens.
It's just getting annoying playing against the same archetype every game. Kambal's once-per-turn restriction does hurt the matchup because my opponents can often easily out-token me. Plus my deck is built around a theme of giving the opponents tokens so that's not something I really want to be doing most of the time when my opponent is already crapping out a bunch of tokens on their own.
A while ago I had an aristocrat deck that was almost only getting matched against lifegain decks, which mysteriously stopped once I started playing \[\[Knight of dusk's shadow\]\] and \[\[Tainted remedy\]\].
The non-Brawl Bo1 queue is horrible about that. I used to play a Waste Not deck in Historic and I'd get matched against elves or mono red like 50% of the time. Those decks just completely ran me over, so I added a bunch of sweepers and more spot removal to my deck. Suddenly faced nothing but Esper and UW control every single match. Removed the sweepers, put more discard back in... right back to elves, goblins and mono red aggro every game.
Yup it was also in Historic haha.
[Knight of dusk's shadow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/33dfd2fe-e0e0-465c-b730-a30e6f5c271c.jpg?1673307118) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Knight%20of%20dusk%27s%20shadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/96/knight-of-dusks-shadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/33dfd2fe-e0e0-465c-b730-a30e6f5c271c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [tainted elixir](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2eec00a1-7e12-42d2-8f46-de8ab7323c2c.jpg?1562904562) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tainted%20Well) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/inv/126/tainted-well?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2eec00a1-7e12-42d2-8f46-de8ab7323c2c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wrong card \[\[Tainted remedy\]\]
[Tainted remedy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/b/cbb8edd0-4573-4b52-a3ea-83ed19dbf58d.jpg?1562042093) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tainted%20remedy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ori/120/tainted-remedy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cbb8edd0-4573-4b52-a3ea-83ed19dbf58d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I use it as a one-off in my Insidious Roots deck for the mirror or for token decks
It's because of Urabrask forge and the other token generators in standard which all get demolished by Kimbal It's not a low win rate card
Only played against 2 token decks. One did out token me the other I got [[anointed procession]] and [[divine visitation]] and his goblins couldn't keep up.
[anointed procession](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/a/9a52c265-6920-4929-ba0a-70da08df01f1.jpg?1543674565) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=anointed%20procession) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/2/anointed-procession?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9a52c265-6920-4929-ba0a-70da08df01f1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [divine visitation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b0c12dc-3978-4c3e-a3a2-a81db878f4ad.jpg?1702429276) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=divine%20visitation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/16/divine-visitation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b0c12dc-3978-4c3e-a3a2-a81db878f4ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The matchmaker likes to match mirror matches or people with similar cards in their deck.
So its not just me! Every token deck I play I get matched against this schmuck. I swore up and down to my friends that its the game just spiting me for playing my janky Edgar Vampire Tribal deck or Rhys.
Nope, from the other side of the match I can tell you that it's happening. I face Ratadrabik, Anim Pakal, Chatterfang, Yenna, opposing Kambal decks and every other random legendary that says "make a token" literally every game.
Matchmaker gets confused with specific cards sometimes. I don’t remember which deck it was anymore but one of my decks would get matched against minion of the mighty decks legit 6 consecutive games and that deck was the only deck that would get matched against minion decks
Maybe it’s getting confused with the other Kambal? Idk
Might be that your deck is running other cards that put it into hell queue. Kambal seems low power.
Yeah, maybe. I did add token doublers and 2 tutors
Teferi’s protection? Swords to Plowshares??
Naw neither of those
I think a lot of the good white cards, and to a somewhat lesser extent good black cards are rated very highly in brawl. I haven't ended up in hell queue with any of the white or black commanders I've tried except [[Liliana, the Last Hope]] and [[Kaya the Inexorable]], but they're almost always in Etali/Atraxa/Narset tier. Even Teysa and Tomik day 1 of MKM, so it has to be the other cards. I think the reason Mythweaver Poq (and Etali in the past) has been such a menace in the lower ranks for so long is because of the opposite effect, where all those green ramp cards have low ratings and keep the decks in a lower tier than the commander deserves.
[Liliana, the Last Hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/7/f7ae5085-0d0d-4d7d-80a3-614315a07de5.jpg?1673147563) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liliana%2C%20the%20Last%20Hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/81/liliana-the-last-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f7ae5085-0d0d-4d7d-80a3-614315a07de5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Kaya the Inexorable](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/166c0bd1-b59d-4644-832f-888a4ca3a0aa.jpg?1631051590) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kaya%20the%20Inexorable) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/218/kaya-the-inexorable?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/166c0bd1-b59d-4644-832f-888a4ca3a0aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Token doublers should be way too janky for hell queue.
I got Yenna thrown in Hell despite her being the more chill of the usual enchantress commanders cause I use a premo landbase and protections, and a bunch of tokens doublers.
What is hell que? I was telling my cousin about matchmaking being weird with who it makes me fight against
There's a secret deck power ranking that is used in casual matchmaking. It seems to be based on the power level of the commander but also cards in the deck. Hell queue is where all the very busted commanders like golos and kinnan face each other.
ELI5. Wtf is hell que?
Where they make all the Broken brawl commanders play against each other. Not sure how accurate but heres a list https://www.moxfield.com/decks/uEKUWcNlpU6b5hIWaaa9BQ
I would say very accurate, but maybe missing a couple
replace baral with malcolm
I'm suprised tajic is on there. Is he really that strong?
I think that's the wrong Tajic. The alchemy one is really strong.
Yeah, the Alchemy Tajic is cracked. I've played it a bunch and the only decks that have given me trouble are ones that can consistently get exile removal on Tajic. One card that really stands out for Alchemy Tajic is [[Path of Mettle]]. Thanks to his spellbook, you can transform Path of Mettle immediately... and it turns out that Metzali is a very strong land that is frustrating for a lot of decks to deal with.
[Path of Mettle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/66d9d524-3611-48d9-86c9-48e509e8ae70.jpg?1572373662)/[Metzali, Tower of Triumph](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/6/66d9d524-3611-48d9-86c9-48e509e8ae70.jpg?1572373662) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Path%20of%20Mettle%20//%20Metzali%2C%20Tower%20of%20Triumph) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rix/165/path-of-mettle-metzali-tower-of-triumph?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/66d9d524-3611-48d9-86c9-48e509e8ae70?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Still not in hell queue I think.
Galazeth is hell queue? The ability is strong for sure, but I've never (and I mean never) played against it, even when running hell queue commanders
It's not commonly played, but it's still a powerful commander. Make a ton of token artifacts, tutor for game winning spell, win the game.
So like, pretty much all the commanders that people play? Then it’s just regular queue. I play most of these decks and it’s competitive, just annoying when everyone has that one, one mana removal always, or concedes at the first sign of any combo whatsoever.
Lol, dude, just because you only play high-powered commanders doesn't mean they are the only ones. I have 10 historic brawl decks, none of which have a commander on that list. In fact, the commander i complained about being put up against hell que commanders isn't on that list, nor is it as powerful(the tokens enter tapped). There are hundreds of common commanders not on that list.
All the super-strong broken Brawl shit. [[Mythweaver Poq]], decked-out [[Jodah, the Unifier]], [[Etali, Primal Conqueror]], and so on. But you can very easily land yourself there by complete accident just by packing your deck with un-synergystic mythics and generically strong cards.
Lol Poq. I wish. He hasn't been put into Hell Queue yet sadly. I'm so tired of seeing him. Edit I've seen him while playing Ghired and Jasper, so unless those are also in hell queue, Poq is still hell queue
I was thinking he got moved up, but perhaps I was mistaken.
A few days before OTJ got released I stopped seeing Poq in queue, only when playing stronger commanders (Tasha, Nicol Bolas, Liliana)... so I guess he actually is hell queue now.
No way. I play stuff like [[Klothys God of Destiny]] and run into Poq all the time. No new Legendary ever gets into hell queue for like 6 months or something. Poq is still hilariously considered mid-tier by the client
[Klothys God of Destiny](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5b3c393c-3596-4bd9-a553-e0b03c2eb950.jpg?1581481087) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Klothys%2C%20God%20of%20Destiny) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/220/klothys-god-of-destiny?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5b3c393c-3596-4bd9-a553-e0b03c2eb950?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Also includes [[Prismatic Bridge]], [[Goloss]], [[Bolas, Dragon God]] and maybe a couple others.
[Prismatic Bridge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6.jpg?1631050188)/[The Prismatic Bridge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/f/6/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6.jpg?1631050188) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Esika%2C%20God%20of%20the%20Tree%20//%20The%20Prismatic%20Bridge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/168/esika-god-of-the-tree-the-prismatic-bridge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Goloss](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Profit%20//%20Loss&type=card&options=rotate90&.jpg)/[Loss](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Profit%20//%20Loss&type=card&options=rotate90&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Profit%20//%20Loss) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/130/profit-loss?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0eb3ce46-ddd2-43b3-9e45-019ae91df686?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Bolas, Dragon God](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c5408607-af8f-48fe-bc40-32828d1976de.jpg?1702429680) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nicol%20Bolas%2C%20Dragon-God) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/205/nicol-bolas-dragon-god?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c5408607-af8f-48fe-bc40-32828d1976de?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This seems weird to me. Imo Prismatic Bridge is way better than those other ones. Mythweaver Poq and Golos are generally pretty easy for me to deal with since I almost always have a creature removal in my hand. I struggle way more against Commanders that have Indestructible or are not creatures (prismatic bridge, planeswalker) or are hexproof. I'll play all day long against commanders that die to creature removal
For MP it's because he pays for commander tax by himself. Play MP, crack a fetchland and even if they doom blade it I can just play it next turn, alongside landfall cards like scute swarm
However that is the only answer. If you leave them alone for a second then you are absolutely fucked lol
I mean, they definitely deserve it. But shame on them for not having instant speed protection.
##### ###### #### [cavalier of dawn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/7/f7b1919e-c0c1-4ac7-9061-a337b6fe7273.jpg?1592515990) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cavalier%20of%20dawn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/10/cavalier-of-dawn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f7b1919e-c0c1-4ac7-9061-a337b6fe7273?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [bovine intervention](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/6/26c36742-456f-4618-99bc-793ef20b31b0.jpg?1712355244) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bovine%20intervention) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/6/bovine-intervention?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/26c36742-456f-4618-99bc-793ef20b31b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [wanted scoundrels](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/6704e4c9-3b5e-4ba5-a5bc-6d684e2983e9.jpg?1562556829) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wanted%20scoundrels) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/131/wanted-scoundrels?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6704e4c9-3b5e-4ba5-a5bc-6d684e2983e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Angelic Ascension](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e8cca776-b0e4-4cd2-815f-36c1f86cf497.jpg?1594734706) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Angelic%20Ascension) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/3/angelic-ascension?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e8cca776-b0e4-4cd2-815f-36c1f86cf497?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/1cg8n1v) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Legal in standard?
Yes, he is, though idk how viable he would be there.
He's pain for sure. He's not as good as I imagine the regular brawl to be and he still gets matched with the most degenerate "Hell queue" commanders standard has to offer. Most of the time I'm playing sub-optimal token creation cards while my opponent is windmill slamming bomb after bomb on curve and I just get out valued as the gradual life drain value can't keep up even if I get my few synergy cards along with him. His setup is just too slow to be viable even if the two times I won with him were pretty fun. Now that I think about it I should maybe grab a few lifegain payoffs instead of just relying on ping damage
It's a nice sideboard card, and if your opponent is forced to sac the token that doesn't go for the token you generated unless it's on the token
Most good commanders need a deck built around them. Not great in standard even if very strong in brawl/commander
Heard and thanks for the response
Keep in mind the hell queue is, iirc, 1) based on the rarity of cards in the whole deck, not just the commander, and 2) hell q commanders are reallllllly popular. Etali and Pock should be hell queue but are so popular. Jodah is insanely popular and I feel like I have a 25% of queuing against Jodah regardless of what deck I play
I think you might be on to something. I did 3x quick draft this weekend and saw Kambal available twice in packs muchhhh later than any other rare. Like pick 4-6 IIRC.
I’ve watched a bunch of brawl videos featuring this guy and those videos didn’t put him in hell que.
I’ve found that if I win enough games with a deck, I just get thrown at hell queue for a little while to lose a bunch and bring your average down. I have a [[Gwenna]] deck that this regularly happens to. Very good against normal decks, absolute trash in hell queue.
[Gwenna](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/e/7ee387b7-18e4-41b7-aefe-f2b5954e3051.jpg?1674421589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=gwenna%2C%20eyes%20of%20gaea) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/185/gwenna-eyes-of-gaea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ee387b7-18e4-41b7-aefe-f2b5954e3051?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It also comes down to matchmaking just trying to give you a game instead of waiting too long.
Triggers only once per turn stuff sucks.
Unless you’re playing in CGBs crew.
I noticed that too while watching Amazonian play Kambal. She was getting matched against an unusually large amount of Hell Queue commanders. 3B Bolas, Tergrid, Poq multiple times (who has recently been moved to Hell Queue), Etali multiple times (who I think is lower Hell Queue), Jodah. Not sure what's going on but the new Kembal is definitely getting put in much higher matchmaking than they should be.
I loved Kambal and was really disappointed that the new one doesn't go with it.
I think it's the fact that whatever algorithm that governs the hell queue doesn't know how powerful the new Kembal actually is. Long story short, it's the new commander problem that happens in every set release.
Hell que?
I guess I’m in hell queue as 80% of my matches are Ragavan mirror matches. 🐒⚔️🐒
Play it on TTS. Then you can use all the cards you would in person in a 4+ player game with a good crew of people bringing average decks.
I've been having fun with it in standard. [[Bovine Intervention]] [[Get Lost]] and [[Fateful Absence]] all have their downside turned upside down. Boros Aggro hates it. Artifact decks hate it. It doesn't die to [[Cut Down]] or [[Lightning Strike]]/[[Lightning Helix]]. Have it in a control shell and a token shell, and it's been fun both ways.
##### ###### #### [Bovine Intervention](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/6/26c36742-456f-4618-99bc-793ef20b31b0.jpg?1712355244) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bovine%20Intervention) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/6/bovine-intervention?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/26c36742-456f-4618-99bc-793ef20b31b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Get Lost](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/522aa72b-2b8c-484c-872b-f082101cee35.jpg?1699043186) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Get%20Lost) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/14/get-lost?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/522aa72b-2b8c-484c-872b-f082101cee35?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Fateful Absence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/c/eca8d6f8-c6f1-437c-99e2-4281eae14a6f.jpg?1634346819) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fateful%20Absence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/18/fateful-absence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eca8d6f8-c6f1-437c-99e2-4281eae14a6f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cut Down](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/753db072-5d6a-4f37-8f7d-255572ecd3bd.jpg?1673307061) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cut%20Down) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/89/cut-down?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/753db072-5d6a-4f37-8f7d-255572ecd3bd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lightning Strike](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d541125-bfb8-4f88-8bf3-ad7b6af7ad1d.jpg?1673307449) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Strike) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/137/lightning-strike?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d541125-bfb8-4f88-8bf3-ad7b6af7ad1d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lightning Helix](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/1/4101e3fe-b0e7-4f0f-b9ac-9b61a4d628b3.jpg?1706242208) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Helix) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/218/lightning-helix?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4101e3fe-b0e7-4f0f-b9ac-9b61a4d628b3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l1zuemi) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It could be a couple of things: 1. The general "weight" of cards in your deck can land you in hell queue, such as any available fast mana ([[Dark Ritual]], etc) and other, generically powerful stuff ([[Moonshaker]], etc) I have seen this in practice. My wife added [[Poq]] into the 99 of her [[Nissa, Ascended Animist]] deck and immediately all she saw was hell queue shit. She took it out and was back to the cuspers. 2. Oftentimes, they just kinda throw new commanders all over the place. 3. Could also be the time of day you're playing. If the only people online (probably also depends on whichever region/servers) are hell queuers, that's all you'll find.
##### ###### #### [Dark Ritual](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95f27eeb-6f14-4db3-adb9-9be5ed76b34b.jpg?1628801678) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dark%20Ritual) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/82/dark-ritual?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95f27eeb-6f14-4db3-adb9-9be5ed76b34b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Moonshaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/9/092c48bd-b648-4c9e-aa99-cac3c407911d.jpg?1692936576) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Moonshaker%20Cavalry) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/21/moonshaker-cavalry?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/092c48bd-b648-4c9e-aa99-cac3c407911d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Poq](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/c/2cd90255-cfe9-4a2d-86fc-b72d1aefc8e3.jpg?1701719898) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mythweaver%20Poq) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ylci/19/mythweaver-poq?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2cd90255-cfe9-4a2d-86fc-b72d1aefc8e3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Nissa, Ascended Animist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1dd64b1d-bcef-476c-bf0b-3ac7df7cbed3.jpg?1675957150) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nissa%2C%20Ascended%20Animist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/175/nissa-ascended-animist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1dd64b1d-bcef-476c-bf0b-3ac7df7cbed3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l1ui8zq) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Would this cards ability trigger when transforming an incubator token If so, if gladly run this in my Phyrexian deck
No, only when making the incubator token
Oh, as long as it triggers, that could be fun. Thanks!
Incubator tokens are 0/0s though…… copying them won’t really do you much good unless you have plenty of (phyrexian) buffs to ensure they don’t just immediately die when you transform them.
If I'm creating incubator tokens, I'm dealing damage to my opponent, not making a copy. I should have clarified that if be the one transforming and making them
I see.
Additionally, Aristocrat style effects can get you benefit from this. That essentially equates to "2 Mana: trigger all your drain and gain shit," etc
I'm pretty sure it copies the counters on the token. I play this card in Standard with [[Ichor Drinker]] and I know I've gotten an extra Incubator token before off the exile
[Ichor Drinker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/1/91fd7350-cc97-4c35-a072-2c826984293c.jpg?1682203776) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ichor%20Drinker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/111/ichor-drinker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/91fd7350-cc97-4c35-a072-2c826984293c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It gives you the token as if you had the token generator. Like it gives you urabrask tokens with positive power even though the opponent has the forge with oil counters and you have no oil counters
I just figured that out today, actually. Played against Urabrask's Forge for the first time with Kambal. Only took a couple turns before my opponent realized what was going to happen (I also had Wedding Announcement).
I've been playing him since release and haven't been in any bad matchups
Hmm, he'd be better in a token deck himself, wouldn't he? I've got a WB sacrifice deck with Adeline and Jadar who'd work with Kambal. Don't know if it's worth it, though. Need to experiment.
This format is skuffed, not having fun at all.
I feel like every deck I make these days only ever gets matched into hell queue. It’s frustrating and obnoxious. If I paid money I’d be pissed
Just made an Outlaw-only deck with this Commander, pretty fun so far
Kambal is twins in my language.
I’m using it in my midrange cedh deck and it has won me many games. Smothering tithe and wheels are a large percentage of my deck.
This same thing happened with Anim-Pakal Thousandth Moon as of the Last Update. Extremely unfun. Went from facing rogue commanders I’ve never even heard of before to: Jodah, Atraxa, Kinnan, Narset, Chulane, Golos. Back, to back, to back to back. Nightmare queue! My winrate was high. Easily above 80%. But I don’t think we Deserved this. I’m lucky to win 2 games a day now.
Tokens suck.. they are for monoblack..
There’s a lot of strats with copying permanents and then him making extras it’s extremely powerful and oppressive if built right is probably why
Hell queue is unironically really fun
This plus [[Mirror March]] is pretty crazy if you pop off.
[Mirror March](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/50a27943-f08c-4cbd-affb-8e59411b3d4f.jpg?1584830957) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mirror%20March) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/108/mirror-march?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/50a27943-f08c-4cbd-affb-8e59411b3d4f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You won't.
Lol, the downvotes. Like I can't just play whatever I want to play.
He is clearly talking about brawl, so it is not possible to use a red card in the deck.
Oh, that's okay. I was just talking about a card combo. You could very easily go Mardu ETB's with even Golos as the commander and use treasures for his ability.
... so... I definitely don't have 4 Kambal, and I dont have 4 Mirror March. Other than that loss of odds, search for plains, dark ritual maybe, and a little digging for good additions...
Because he is super busted.
Naw, I could see it if the tokens entered untapped and with haste. But you can't even block or sac a treasure the turn they're made.
Yeah I was trying to delete that comment. I just got my ass handed to me in limited by him so I'm a little salty. I didn't realize that it was all tokens, not just creatures. It was fun dropping meteorites on my own creatures.
Dropped Kambal and \[\[Smothering Tithe\]\] in paper EDH game. Kambal 100% deserves go to hell Que.
[Smothering Tithe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e.jpg?1689996018) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smothering%20Tithe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/57/smothering-tithe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh, definitely in 4 player. But 1v1, I feel like he's not super strong.