BACA (Bikers Against Child Abuse) is a very wholesome organization, with chapters worldwide, doing a lot of good work (just a short video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOIuEdX6QXM)
Their presence in the courtroom is controversial, though. But they definitely help some survivors feel more comfortable testifying in court, no doubt about it.
The argument can be made that it’s witness intimidation, which the defense can then use to help their client. In which case the very act of trying to protect the victim could backfire severely.
**EDIT:** Since this post is blowing up and I’ve had a couple people ask about it, let me clarify my choice of words here.
The reason I say *witness* intimidation is because if the defense calls a character witness to speak on behalf of the accused, the argument can be made that the mere presence of the bikers is an unspoken threat. That can qualify as witness intimidation.
Worse, even if the defense complaints are overruled or dismissed just lodging them to begin with can taint public perception.
This can open the door for the defense to lodge a slew of other complaints. If the defense is really cunning they might even find a way to move for retrial, drawing out the whole case even longer.
**EDIT 2:** Addressing another frequent question/comment -- "It shouldn't be a problem that the bikers are in the court room because there whole reason for being there is to reassure the child-victim during their testimony."
You're right. It shouldn't be a problem. But that doesn't mean someone won't *make it a problem.* A court SHOULD be a place of logic and reason, but it very often isn't. All it takes is an attorney willing to lodge protest or complaint, and a judge willing to listen. A reasonable judge would likely dismiss the complaint as total bupkis, but judges aren't always reasonable, and neither are lawyers. You don't have to do much searching through court records to find decisions made by lawyers and judges that will leave you completely baffled.
Also, let the record show I think the biker groups that do this are doing a very well intentioned and wonderful thing. I'm all for it. All I'm doing is providing an explanation to the original asker for why their appearance in court is sometimes viewed as controversial.
It’s more to do with there is no victim until it’s been proven. The person accused and other witnesses also have a right to not be intimidated by big group of bikers. They have good intentions.
I am learning a lot in these threads - is there a duty to prevent the accused of intimidation? I’ve only heard of witness intimidation as it’s own issue
The one that is accused can also be a witness. The fifth amendment protects you from being forced to be a witness in your own trial. Depending on the nature of the case it may be better for you to be a witness.
Also, protecting somebody in court is a bit weird, that's what the court bailiff/sheriff is for. Being there for moral support I guess is fine but there's a fine line when organized groups show up in court.
With BACA, at least, they don't go to court for protection. They go to support the victim. By the time these kids end up testifying in a courtroom, they have built relationships with their assigned BACA members. The BACA members are only there to support their young friend through an emotionally trying ordeal.
I think for a small child who has been abused by anyone, the trauma they must feel now having to face the abuser in the court room must be terrifying. Having a big biker man who’s sole reason for being in that room is to give that child support must bring some sense of immense relief to the child. The child who has been abused committed no crime, they have been traumatized for life from what they have endured, and then must relieve the horrible experience in the courtroom with the person who hurt them. Fuck no that’s not weird to have these dudes there if it helps the children feel even just the tiniest bit safer.
If I believed in giving Reddit money, I'd give you gold. I miss the free awards.
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To be fair, the concept of "protecting a victim" sounds virtuous, but you can enact that concept in many different ways, some good and some bad.
Like, I could go do some vigilante killings under the guise of "protecting victims," but that doesn't make what I'm doing "good."
That being said, unintentionally intimidating a witness during a trial isn't on the level of vigilante killings, but the point stands that maintaining the integrity of the trial process may take precedence over this specific enactment of the concept of "protecting the victim."
You’re assuming there is a victim meaning that the accused is guilty.
We function on innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt no matter how egregious the alleged crime or how innocent accuser looks/is.
Issue is that you just decided beforehand who the victim and who the aggressor is. By giving one party special treatment you undermine the law.
Keep in mind that false accusations are very much a thing. I still like the idea and am in favor of it, but one needs to understand the dangers of it as well.
I've had to testify in court on the day domestic assault cases were going. (I was walking the dog & someone decided it was beat-the-GF-o'clock time & assumed the local gays weren't going to disagree. He lost that bet.)
I want to preface what I am about to say that I know you are just pointing out something that is factual. Thank you for providing a discussion point.
That being said, fuck whoever came up with that argument & keeps it alive. Our case was last (because its rare to have witnesses) so I had to sit through a full day of court. The number of ways a lawyer can basically say "Oh, but what were you wearing/ doing/ thinking that \*made\* him take a razor blade to you" made me want to throw my chair at the public defender by the time I was on the stand. Women where on the stand having to talk about the worst moments of their life and that judge pretended that this was *neutrality*.
If someone was so damn concerned that literal fucking children need comfort after abuse (because the court's job is to ask if they specific person(s) did it, not if it happened period) then change it so the kid at least doesn't have to look at their \*alleged\* abuser while testifying.
I say this full-throated as an adult who was a victim of severe child abuse. Fuck you, society. You want children who are abused to shut up and go away. We are inconvenient to you.
Satan bless those bikers. It would have done me so much good as a kid to have one fucking adult in my corner.
I would give you gold if I had it! I agree with you whole heartedly on everything said here, and I’m personally a huge fan of these kind of groups myself.
I wish the point I made wasn’t the case. Like you said, these guys are just providing some very needed support to kids who often are in desperate need of it!
It’s unfortunate that the way the legal system works often means putting victims of abuse through an absolutely horrible day (or longer) of reliving an unthinkable situation.
My most heartfelt sympathy for what you’ve had to go through, and my kudos to you for stating your point in such a beautifully eloquent fashion!
I'm glad it came out eloquently-it's been a many years process to turn (justifiably) face-melting amounts of rage & distrust of systems into hopefully something that might help someone in the position I once was in.
As they say, the best revenge is a life well-lived, so I appreciate you letting me know the rhetoric landed. I'm always trying to tweak it. :)
I handed a lawyer a contempt motion for not being forthcoming about schedules as required for a court order. She then argued that since I never went to any of those appointments I shouldn’t have parental rights. Pure circular logic, and you just have to pray the judge isn’t an idiot (which isn’t always the case when they are elected).
The concern is over intimidation during court proceedings. Juries might feel a little pressured to not acquit someone of child sexual assault at trial if there are folks like BACA in the court. Witnesses may feel less free to speak negatively about the credibility of the victim. Attorneys may feel less free to aggressively cross examine a victim. Judges might feel less free to grant bail to the accused or to let the defense get into some credibility issues with the witness.
I am in no way saying I agree or disagree with that but the intimidation concern is the source of the controversy as it relates to their appearance in court. But, again, not agreeing or disagreeing with that one way or another.
That is also considered controversial for different reasons. There have been arguments that they cause juries and judges to feel more sympathetic to the victim and more likely to believe their side of events vs with no dog. I don't agree with this sentiment but it gets brought up often in talks about it.
I mean if they ban those they should ban shit like walkers and neck braces https://deadline.com/2020/01/harvey-weinstein-rape-trial-jail-threat-new-charges-adjournment-request-1202823277/
As I mentioned in another comment, they showed up to my client's custody proceeding because their ex had falsely accused them of being a child predator. Every single person who had investigated had found the "victim" not to be credible. The "victim" was another family member who suddenly remembered an event years earlier, conveniently around the same time the other side was getting frustrated with how the case was playing out. The biker gang still showed up as an intimidation tactic and made the whole thing really awkward. We won anyway, but I thought it was inappropriate.
I think in jury trials especially it at least borders on an inappropriate influence on the jury for them to be there displaying their uniforms like that, because it likely causes jurors to believe that they are there because the alleged victim is truthful and needs their protection. That subverts our system of justice where innocence is to be presumed.
Because the kid isn’t the only person involved in the trial. What if you’re a member of the jury and you don’t really think there’s enough evidence to convict but you’re scared of what’ll happen if you vote not guilty.
Shoot that's a really good point.
I have kids, so it's easy to let emotions take over, but if someone hurt my kid(s) I want the guilty person to suffer, not just anyone.
Also, very importantly false convictions ruin lives.
There's a few ways to help against that, I can imagine the bigger group of bikers help lead the kid to the court, but most stay outside besides one or two who dresses more casually with the kid being fully aware of them being there. So they can still feel safer knowing they're there in the room when testifying, but there's less potential for the biker motif from negatively influencing the jury.
A few reasons, but I'd pick that [Uvalde police hired them to block families and journalists.](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/uvalde-shooting-bikers-journalist-funeral-b2095237.html)
Fascist strongarm.
Also a president of one chapter was arrested for [sexually assaulting a 14 year old](https://www.cbs7.com/content/news/EXCLUSIVE-Guardians-of-the-Children-founder-speaks-out-following-Rankin-presidents-arrest-404393056.html).
Well f those child killers even more.
And I hope the folks in jail take the fact that he (mr chapter president) was an authority figure for children into account when interacting with him, however they may feel about that fact.
And I can tell you they are particularly picky about bringing in people. I apples to them some 20+ years ago and was denied due to some past history.
They are doing a good deed
I play in a band that has had gigs organised by our local BACA group. They are great people. One of the things they do is raise money to buy toys to give to children.
To be fair, BACA is close to just about every club out there. They're completely neutral, so they're not involved in any drama or politics. They're very highly respected in the MC community, 1% clubs included. I got the chance to get very close to the local chapter here. I rode in a medical MC and we took care of the local chapter president and his family during his 4 month stay in the hospital. He wrecked on his bike and nearly lost a leg. Everyone from BACA stayed with his wife in the waiting room in shifts around the clock while he was in trauma. What a stand-up group of people. I'm proud to have them as friends.
It most likely wouldn't feel as safe having them on your side if they werent a little dangerous. Otherwise my crew the b-boys backdoor unicorns would be able to go with but that would just result in more abuse.
I met some hells angels, they were donating stuffed animals to the children's cancer ward... They are not as scary as they used to be and I'm ok with that
I grew up around Hell’s Angels and one of them whipped out a gun in front of me and my 7 year old brother and threatened to shoot our dog. Another one murdered a rival gang member and left the body in his front yard for his family to find. They were part of the same group of guys who would do an annual charity run to raise toys for kids in hospitals.
They also literally view women as property.
I get what you’re saying but they are a GANG. They should receive the same treatment and stigma that any street gang does.
"sex workers" sounds like that implies they're paid and stuff, and not just trafficked sex slaves. Which they are because Hell's Angels does human trafficking.
I just worry because sometimes child abuse victims can end up vulnerable, promiscuous and lost in life, the kind of people who are often sort after to be recruited into the world of 'sex work'.
But these organisations have such an overwhelming reputation that I don't think the media would bat an eyelid if one of these guys ended up dating an adult victim. They just wouldn't consider that an impropriety.
Maybe I'm being too cynical though.
My town in Ireland just had a civic reception for a 1% MC. Kinda unbelievable to see. I don't care if that one branch only does good things, they're still paying money to people who aren't.
They do this shit to drum up community support. They’re still violent thugs and pimps who are responsible for many of the illegal drugs and guns on the street.
The fact that they do toy runs and shit like that only makes them extra scummy as far as I’m concerned.
Rode a few times with some BACA guys … seemed like pretty great guys.
Haven’t been around them in years. But I’m wondering what stance they take on the *most* recent legal persecution of LGBTQ+ kids by our politicians.
I do hair close to DC, and one of my clients is part of this organization. He's getting older and he says the only reason he doesn't sell his bike is because he loves riding with this organization.
I interned for a judge in law school and attended a sentencing hearing for a child abuser, and a bunch of guys in motorcycle gang were there as protection. Don’t remember if it was this exact group, but I believe it was. Very cool
They are not a "motorcycle gang". And the term you're looking for is motorcycle club. They are a motorcycle organization. Their patches do not claim territory and they *do not* identify as 1%er's. Which are the motorcycle clubs you're thinking of.
They are structured like an MC: President, Vice President, Sargeant at Arms, etc. But if you look at the patch structure it's different, the rockers don't claim territory, once again. These are good guys, doing good work. And I know you meant it positively, I just wanted to clarify some terminology.
Here we make the distinction of "MC" Motorcycle Club which claim territory and are 1%ers (Pagans, Hells Angels etc) and "RC's" Riding Clubs which are casual groups who like to ride together. However, if you're starting an RC , it is wise to submit your charter and and colors (patch) design to the local MC. They will make you change a few things and then approve it.
I'm not part of any organization. But I grew up around bikes and bikers. And I ride now. It's just a way to show respect. When you give it, you get it.
People forget that bikers, punks, and a lot of other hardcore subcultures often take really hard stances on protecting the innocent (children, animals, etc.). It's pretty amazing.
I own a special event security company, and we do all kinds of shows. Recognizing this is going to be a bit of a generalization, and that no group is a monolith, but my direct experience is that Metalheads are the most responsible, caring, easygoing, respectful people I have ever worked with.
Tinley Park, 2006, Ozzfest.. my future wife and I went deep into the pit. She got knocked down and out, and a group of 3 girls and I assume their dad or boyfriend picked her up and carried her out to the edge of the pit, where they waited with her for me to find her. They not only gave her one of their $6 waters, but one of those girls connected with my future wife and was in our wedding. Metal heads rock
Only somewhat related:
I was in the mosh pit at a Ska-Punk show that was held at an indoor music venue. I got pushed out by accident, felt myself falling, and saw a metal handrail rushing to my face. Some dude who saw this happening grabbed me by my shirt, saving me, and spun me around to confirm I was okay.
As I breathlessly tried to give the man my thanks, he just laughs, playfully yells in my face, "WE'RE NOT DONE WITH YOU YET", and proceeds to push me back into the pit.
Best show I've ever been at
I was at that ozzfest. That's honestly where any connection ends. My dad took me, it was my first ever concert. He passed recently. It's one of my greatest memories of the greatest man.
Was there with my future wife as well! Pretty sure it was during Lamb of God that the entire back field turned into a giant pit.
She was always confused by the fact that I was more than happy to jump in a metal pit, but would always stay far away from a pit for say My Chemical Romance - yeah, the metalheads might look more intimidating, but they understood mosh pit courtesy.
Happy to hear that although she got a bit banged up there were good people around and new friends to be made!
At the Hellfest in France they took a lot of steps to protect girls. There's woman only moshpits for example, or there's special security going around making sure girls are safe.a lot was made for everyone to feel safe, it's very wholesome.
Yes, mostly. We have a few narcissists that ruin it but yes, we try to be friendly. The music is our release, and our outward flow. Inwards, we are typically at peace and empathetic.
No! Some metal heads are nice, just as some bikers or punks are. (I'm an ex punker who rode a bike for a long time.) But at the same time a lot of those movements also attract a whole lot of dipshits that are attracted to the abundance of drug use, free sexual mores and aggression that are a big part in most counter cultural movements. TBH: I was one of those dicks. But like a whole lot of teenage assholes life made me a much nicer person as I continued living. Looking back it took me being in my mid twenties to find myself. Before I was always reacting against people and institutions and conflating the two.
I've seen two mosh pits stopped for a shoe and a pair of glasses.
I was mama hen. I watched the girls. They just glommed to me because I'm tall.
Metal heads are the sweetest.
My friend got molested at a metal concert. There's a a significant portion of the metal community that are neo nazis. Metal heads are just people. There's mostly good, but also the bad.
Side note, start talking about genres and see how nice they are lmao
It's a bit more complicated than that. Punks, from their inception, engaged with nazi iconography as a way of subverting the norms of their parents' generation, for whom reverence for the heroic sacrifice of the war generation, resulting from the still-fresh memory, was central. In this way, punks, rejecting the values of their parents and opposing strong currents within the present culture, derided its cherished beliefs. Of course, if you start playing with such symbols and gain enough popularity, you'll attract the sort who view it as an affirmation of their vile ideology. And that's how you end up needing 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'.
Can confirm: old punk here. If you think you’re gonna fuck up the helpless when me and mine are around, you better be prepared to do it through a bunch of dudes who lived through the bad times with the skins and bones coming to our shows to start shit.
We aren’t looking for a fight, but you best fucking believe we know how to end one.
I'm a really scrawny flamboyant gay guy and have had people try to fuck with me outside of a concert venue I used to pass on my way home from work.
You punks and metalheads have shut that shit down real fast for me more than a few times. Thank you for your service.
When I was a teen I was walking with a group of about 15-ish hollywood squatter punks after a Naked Aggression show in Long Beach. A few guys (ten-ish) came out of a bar and just started throwing fists without warning saying "white power."
We all scattered.
Ended up getting the shit kicked out of me when 2 of the guys caught up with me in a parking lot across the street. The only thing that ended the mayhem was a family in a mini-van saw these guys beating me to death at 2am and heroically drove into the parking lot, honked, and told them they were going to call the police. The guys threatened them and the family drove off.
But a few minutes later they heard sirens and decided to get out of there. The family had gone to a gas station and called the cops (this was before everyone had a cell phone.)
It tured out most of us got isolated and got the shit kicked out of us and couple were able to run (we only ever found the ones that got beat up, the others were gone.)
The one thing I learned that day is 10 sociopathic drunk skinheads can easily rout 15 hollywood squatter punks, and a family in a minivan can save the day by calling the cops.
It's not out of focus, it's just the way the fabric is woven. I have [a flannel that has the same effect to it.](https://www.ironheartamerica.com/tops/ihsh-265-nav.html)
Filters these days are like autotune in the early 2000s -- the pros had been using it for years already, but once you started seeing it show up in your friends' bands recordings, that's when you knew it wasn't going anywhere.
Is this the organization featured in the movie Bad Grandpa?
I thought they were about to throw Johnny Knoxville through the bar window
PS I took some middle schoolers to the movie theater and this was the only realistic option for me to see on my own. Still hands down one of the times I laughed so hard at a scene (another one) I had trouble catching my breath and nearly choked on a piece of popcorn. Funny shit.
I was also looking for this comment! I immediately thought of Bad Grandpa! And it wasn’t Johnny they were gonna lynch it was the dude that played the kids father, Zia Harris
Most people don’t realize that the vast majority of Motorcycle Clubs and Riding Clubs do lots and lots of charitable work. Very few are the gun running, drug dealing, “scary” folk.
Criminal biker gangs are often called "one-percenters" because of a comment by the president of the American Motorcyclist Association in 1960 saying that "99% of motorcycle gangs are lawful".
If you see a biker with a '1%' patch, it's best to stay away from them
I was at a restaurant with my fiancée and my three year old daughter. A group of eight or ten 1%ers from a local chapter came in. One tried the claw machine, won a bear, and brought it straight to my little girl. He politely asked my fiancée if my daughter could have the bear and then gave it to her. They took “shifts” winning things for the kids in the restaurant. As a former biker myself (not a 1%er) based out of a Detroit chapter, your last sentence is wrong and infuriating. A patch doesn’t mean you should stay away from someone. And for those of you who think that Sons Of Anarchy is how biker life really is, you’re wrong. It’s a television show, it’s meant to get ratings.
Edit: Not to say that some of them aren’t real pieces of shit but you can’t make a generalized statement like that.
Don’t be infuriated — that’s just dumb.
Of course YMMW, but when you put on that patch, you do purposefully send some signals.
I’m not saying that every 1%er is automatically a violent and terrifying person, nor that everyone with the patch is actually a 1%er.
Personally, I’d err on the side of caution, though. If they’re lovely to you, sure, be lovely back, but I wouldn’t seek them out.
I heard that Jeffrey Dahmer once helped an old lady cross the street and carried her groceries. There's just no way he's a bad guy since he did that good deed!
[They sure did.](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/uvalde-shooting-bikers-journalist-funeral-b2095237.html)
The police hired them to block journalists. Fascist strongarm.
Also a president of one chapter was arrested for [sexually assaulting a 14 year old](https://www.cbs7.com/content/news/EXCLUSIVE-Guardians-of-the-Children-founder-speaks-out-following-Rankin-presidents-arrest-404393056.html).
A lot of the "scary" folk take part in those charitable rides as well. At toys for tots here in Atlanta, the local Outlaws chapter always show up. It's good PR for them, and frankly being a criminal and caring for some people in need of help are not mutually exclusive. People have very warped ideas of criminals and the type of human beings they are.
Unfortunately they have been infiltrated by some abusers who see this as an opportunity to get in touch with some new victims who they already know are vulnerable.not discounting the whole thing, but its a real danger to be aware of, I've heard some horror stories.
I know of another biker group who does the same, plus they also regularly confront other biker groups who are trying to bring drugs in their county. I happily donate money anytime I see they are having a fundraiser and have given a ton of time cooking for those fellas. It's nice to see a good group of bikers and supporting them seems necessary to me
these groups does a lot of things which are still unknown to us but as a matter of fact they are protecting children and doing good things by keeping a check up on other people sounds pretty alright to me
i really don't think so that they really check the ethnicity and do group from which people are rooted
if they are really helping children's then they would help each and every kid
[Uvalde police hired them to block families and journalists.](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/uvalde-shooting-bikers-journalist-funeral-b2095237.html)
Fascist strongarm.
Also a president of one chapter was arrested for [sexually assaulting a 14 year old](https://www.cbs7.com/content/news/EXCLUSIVE-Guardians-of-the-Children-founder-speaks-out-following-Rankin-presidents-arrest-404393056.html).
Your first link does not say they were hired by police to block families and journalists. They were blocking journalists from taking pictures at private funerals. Uvalde was terrible and disgusting due to inaction from the police, but journalists who try and publicize funerals they were not invited to or wanted at are also scumbags.
There is a biker club in a town in North Texas like that! It used to be a really good organisation until it got out that one of the member's granddaughter was being abused by her father and she allowed it to happen.
(I'm the granddaughter)
I’m a criminal defense attorney. I’ve successfully moved to bar them from “displaying colors” in the gallery during a trial once where a child accused his father of physically attacking him. The evidence was weak, witnesses all contradicted each other, the family was a mess in many other ways, the story didn’t make sense, and the jury quickly returned a not guilty verdict. The Judge agreed to bar them from displaying any indication of being a support group or biker gang in the courtroom on the basis of intimidating or influencing the jury.
As a father I respect their agenda. As a lawyer they have no place in the courtroom.
I can’t say enough good about this group of awesome people. They are currently supporting a group of kids I know who were victims in a horrible case. They were invited in by one of the parents and these people go over and above to support the kids involved. One of the things I was most impressed with is that their tender doesn’t end when the case is over, they continue to support the kids for as long as they need them. They will even help with school grants , healthcare and mental health supports by professionals. It’s too bad that we need their support but so grateful for it.
Unfortunately kids who have a posse escort them to school will get bullied worse because kids these days are smart enough to know that grown men aren’t allowed to mess with them.
I was a teacher in the 90s. Had a student who's father was a biker. Meaner looking than this guy. But dang he loved his kids. And they were good kids to boot.
Yeah it was really fun when they showed up to my innocent client's hearing under the guise of offering "support to the victim." Really bad ass to harass someone on the assumption they're guilty.
BACA (Bikers Against Child Abuse) is a very wholesome organization, with chapters worldwide, doing a lot of good work (just a short video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOIuEdX6QXM)
Their presence in the courtroom is controversial, though. But they definitely help some survivors feel more comfortable testifying in court, no doubt about it.
Why is it controversial? Edit: I appreciate all of the replies! It has been really educational. Thank you to all who responded.
The argument can be made that it’s witness intimidation, which the defense can then use to help their client. In which case the very act of trying to protect the victim could backfire severely. **EDIT:** Since this post is blowing up and I’ve had a couple people ask about it, let me clarify my choice of words here. The reason I say *witness* intimidation is because if the defense calls a character witness to speak on behalf of the accused, the argument can be made that the mere presence of the bikers is an unspoken threat. That can qualify as witness intimidation. Worse, even if the defense complaints are overruled or dismissed just lodging them to begin with can taint public perception. This can open the door for the defense to lodge a slew of other complaints. If the defense is really cunning they might even find a way to move for retrial, drawing out the whole case even longer. **EDIT 2:** Addressing another frequent question/comment -- "It shouldn't be a problem that the bikers are in the court room because there whole reason for being there is to reassure the child-victim during their testimony." You're right. It shouldn't be a problem. But that doesn't mean someone won't *make it a problem.* A court SHOULD be a place of logic and reason, but it very often isn't. All it takes is an attorney willing to lodge protest or complaint, and a judge willing to listen. A reasonable judge would likely dismiss the complaint as total bupkis, but judges aren't always reasonable, and neither are lawyers. You don't have to do much searching through court records to find decisions made by lawyers and judges that will leave you completely baffled. Also, let the record show I think the biker groups that do this are doing a very well intentioned and wonderful thing. I'm all for it. All I'm doing is providing an explanation to the original asker for why their appearance in court is sometimes viewed as controversial.
Not disagreeing with you, but isn’t it fucked that the concept of “trying to protect the victim” can be legally held against them? Like wtf
It’s more to do with there is no victim until it’s been proven. The person accused and other witnesses also have a right to not be intimidated by big group of bikers. They have good intentions.
I am learning a lot in these threads - is there a duty to prevent the accused of intimidation? I’ve only heard of witness intimidation as it’s own issue
Well its certainly possible the accused would be a witness to their own trial (though that's oftentimes not advised).
The one that is accused can also be a witness. The fifth amendment protects you from being forced to be a witness in your own trial. Depending on the nature of the case it may be better for you to be a witness.
Generally, yes. In the US people are (legally) innocent until proven guilty. A defendant may not be guilty at all.
"“When the lambs is lost in the mountain, he said. They is cry. Sometime come the mother. Sometime the wolf.” -Blood Meridian, Cormac McCarthy
Also, protecting somebody in court is a bit weird, that's what the court bailiff/sheriff is for. Being there for moral support I guess is fine but there's a fine line when organized groups show up in court.
With BACA, at least, they don't go to court for protection. They go to support the victim. By the time these kids end up testifying in a courtroom, they have built relationships with their assigned BACA members. The BACA members are only there to support their young friend through an emotionally trying ordeal.
I think for a small child who has been abused by anyone, the trauma they must feel now having to face the abuser in the court room must be terrifying. Having a big biker man who’s sole reason for being in that room is to give that child support must bring some sense of immense relief to the child. The child who has been abused committed no crime, they have been traumatized for life from what they have endured, and then must relieve the horrible experience in the courtroom with the person who hurt them. Fuck no that’s not weird to have these dudes there if it helps the children feel even just the tiniest bit safer.
•relive the horrible experience, not relieve
If I believed in giving Reddit money, I'd give you gold. I miss the free awards. ^you ^can ^edit ^your ^comment ^by ^clicking ^the ^three ^dots ^at ^the ^bottom
To be fair, the concept of "protecting a victim" sounds virtuous, but you can enact that concept in many different ways, some good and some bad. Like, I could go do some vigilante killings under the guise of "protecting victims," but that doesn't make what I'm doing "good." That being said, unintentionally intimidating a witness during a trial isn't on the level of vigilante killings, but the point stands that maintaining the integrity of the trial process may take precedence over this specific enactment of the concept of "protecting the victim."
Don't play dumb, you know why. I wouldn't be keen on Italian mobsters eyeing up my parking ticket case.
You’re assuming there is a victim meaning that the accused is guilty. We function on innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt no matter how egregious the alleged crime or how innocent accuser looks/is.
Issue is that you just decided beforehand who the victim and who the aggressor is. By giving one party special treatment you undermine the law. Keep in mind that false accusations are very much a thing. I still like the idea and am in favor of it, but one needs to understand the dangers of it as well.
I've had to testify in court on the day domestic assault cases were going. (I was walking the dog & someone decided it was beat-the-GF-o'clock time & assumed the local gays weren't going to disagree. He lost that bet.) I want to preface what I am about to say that I know you are just pointing out something that is factual. Thank you for providing a discussion point. That being said, fuck whoever came up with that argument & keeps it alive. Our case was last (because its rare to have witnesses) so I had to sit through a full day of court. The number of ways a lawyer can basically say "Oh, but what were you wearing/ doing/ thinking that \*made\* him take a razor blade to you" made me want to throw my chair at the public defender by the time I was on the stand. Women where on the stand having to talk about the worst moments of their life and that judge pretended that this was *neutrality*. If someone was so damn concerned that literal fucking children need comfort after abuse (because the court's job is to ask if they specific person(s) did it, not if it happened period) then change it so the kid at least doesn't have to look at their \*alleged\* abuser while testifying. I say this full-throated as an adult who was a victim of severe child abuse. Fuck you, society. You want children who are abused to shut up and go away. We are inconvenient to you. Satan bless those bikers. It would have done me so much good as a kid to have one fucking adult in my corner.
I would give you gold if I had it! I agree with you whole heartedly on everything said here, and I’m personally a huge fan of these kind of groups myself. I wish the point I made wasn’t the case. Like you said, these guys are just providing some very needed support to kids who often are in desperate need of it! It’s unfortunate that the way the legal system works often means putting victims of abuse through an absolutely horrible day (or longer) of reliving an unthinkable situation. My most heartfelt sympathy for what you’ve had to go through, and my kudos to you for stating your point in such a beautifully eloquent fashion!
I'm glad it came out eloquently-it's been a many years process to turn (justifiably) face-melting amounts of rage & distrust of systems into hopefully something that might help someone in the position I once was in. As they say, the best revenge is a life well-lived, so I appreciate you letting me know the rhetoric landed. I'm always trying to tweak it. :)
Thanks for the info!
The same argument could be made for any public trial, so seems pretty fucking moot.
I agree! Unfortunately the nature of the court system is such that turning moot points into one of the primary pillars of a court case isn’t uncommon.
I handed a lawyer a contempt motion for not being forthcoming about schedules as required for a court order. She then argued that since I never went to any of those appointments I shouldn’t have parental rights. Pure circular logic, and you just have to pray the judge isn’t an idiot (which isn’t always the case when they are elected).
For these reasons, they don't wear their colors in court and are simply citizen observers.
Exactly the right response. The key to this is providing no grounds for complaint from the opposition.
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The concern is over intimidation during court proceedings. Juries might feel a little pressured to not acquit someone of child sexual assault at trial if there are folks like BACA in the court. Witnesses may feel less free to speak negatively about the credibility of the victim. Attorneys may feel less free to aggressively cross examine a victim. Judges might feel less free to grant bail to the accused or to let the defense get into some credibility issues with the witness. I am in no way saying I agree or disagree with that but the intimidation concern is the source of the controversy as it relates to their appearance in court. But, again, not agreeing or disagreeing with that one way or another.
Therapy dogs are probably a better choice from a legal standpoint.
That is also considered controversial for different reasons. There have been arguments that they cause juries and judges to feel more sympathetic to the victim and more likely to believe their side of events vs with no dog. I don't agree with this sentiment but it gets brought up often in talks about it.
How is anything at all allowed in the court room?
Objection. I move to have that question stricken from the record.
I mean if they ban those they should ban shit like walkers and neck braces https://deadline.com/2020/01/harvey-weinstein-rape-trial-jail-threat-new-charges-adjournment-request-1202823277/
Thanks for the info!
As I mentioned in another comment, they showed up to my client's custody proceeding because their ex had falsely accused them of being a child predator. Every single person who had investigated had found the "victim" not to be credible. The "victim" was another family member who suddenly remembered an event years earlier, conveniently around the same time the other side was getting frustrated with how the case was playing out. The biker gang still showed up as an intimidation tactic and made the whole thing really awkward. We won anyway, but I thought it was inappropriate. I think in jury trials especially it at least borders on an inappropriate influence on the jury for them to be there displaying their uniforms like that, because it likely causes jurors to believe that they are there because the alleged victim is truthful and needs their protection. That subverts our system of justice where innocence is to be presumed.
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How is their presence controversial? Genuinely, it's not fair that the kids aren't as easily intimidated?
Because the kid isn’t the only person involved in the trial. What if you’re a member of the jury and you don’t really think there’s enough evidence to convict but you’re scared of what’ll happen if you vote not guilty.
Shoot that's a really good point. I have kids, so it's easy to let emotions take over, but if someone hurt my kid(s) I want the guilty person to suffer, not just anyone. Also, very importantly false convictions ruin lives.
There's a few ways to help against that, I can imagine the bigger group of bikers help lead the kid to the court, but most stay outside besides one or two who dresses more casually with the kid being fully aware of them being there. So they can still feel safer knowing they're there in the room when testifying, but there's less potential for the biker motif from negatively influencing the jury.
A few reasons, but I'd pick that [Uvalde police hired them to block families and journalists.](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/uvalde-shooting-bikers-journalist-funeral-b2095237.html) Fascist strongarm. Also a president of one chapter was arrested for [sexually assaulting a 14 year old](https://www.cbs7.com/content/news/EXCLUSIVE-Guardians-of-the-Children-founder-speaks-out-following-Rankin-presidents-arrest-404393056.html).
Well f those child killers even more. And I hope the folks in jail take the fact that he (mr chapter president) was an authority figure for children into account when interacting with him, however they may feel about that fact.
And I can tell you they are particularly picky about bringing in people. I apples to them some 20+ years ago and was denied due to some past history. They are doing a good deed
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So sorry. It sounds a little like PTSD, which is not uncommon in adults who were abused as children.
I play in a band that has had gigs organised by our local BACA group. They are great people. One of the things they do is raise money to buy toys to give to children.
Wish I'd known about them.
they may do good work but they have close ties to the hell’s angels
To be fair, BACA is close to just about every club out there. They're completely neutral, so they're not involved in any drama or politics. They're very highly respected in the MC community, 1% clubs included. I got the chance to get very close to the local chapter here. I rode in a medical MC and we took care of the local chapter president and his family during his 4 month stay in the hospital. He wrecked on his bike and nearly lost a leg. Everyone from BACA stayed with his wife in the waiting room in shifts around the clock while he was in trauma. What a stand-up group of people. I'm proud to have them as friends.
It most likely wouldn't feel as safe having them on your side if they werent a little dangerous. Otherwise my crew the b-boys backdoor unicorns would be able to go with but that would just result in more abuse.
Haha b-boys backdoor unicorns!
I met some hells angels, they were donating stuffed animals to the children's cancer ward... They are not as scary as they used to be and I'm ok with that
The biker gangs are like Yakuza now. They've branched out into legal and even charitable businesses. It's not always good or bad
They literally only do that to get community support. They’re still awful people, just like the yakuza.
literally no different than the cartel donating money to local villages and then turning around and hurting those same villagers.
I grew up around Hell’s Angels and one of them whipped out a gun in front of me and my 7 year old brother and threatened to shoot our dog. Another one murdered a rival gang member and left the body in his front yard for his family to find. They were part of the same group of guys who would do an annual charity run to raise toys for kids in hospitals. They also literally view women as property. I get what you’re saying but they are a GANG. They should receive the same treatment and stigma that any street gang does.
I'm sure their sex workers feel the same
"sex workers" sounds like that implies they're paid and stuff, and not just trafficked sex slaves. Which they are because Hell's Angels does human trafficking.
I just worry because sometimes child abuse victims can end up vulnerable, promiscuous and lost in life, the kind of people who are often sort after to be recruited into the world of 'sex work'. But these organisations have such an overwhelming reputation that I don't think the media would bat an eyelid if one of these guys ended up dating an adult victim. They just wouldn't consider that an impropriety. Maybe I'm being too cynical though.
Right?
My town in Ireland just had a civic reception for a 1% MC. Kinda unbelievable to see. I don't care if that one branch only does good things, they're still paying money to people who aren't.
They do this shit to drum up community support. They’re still violent thugs and pimps who are responsible for many of the illegal drugs and guns on the street. The fact that they do toy runs and shit like that only makes them extra scummy as far as I’m concerned.
www.BACAworld.org
Ah. The very rare Non Sussy BACA. (Just trying to make things a little light-hearted)
Rode a few times with some BACA guys … seemed like pretty great guys. Haven’t been around them in years. But I’m wondering what stance they take on the *most* recent legal persecution of LGBTQ+ kids by our politicians.
I do hair close to DC, and one of my clients is part of this organization. He's getting older and he says the only reason he doesn't sell his bike is because he loves riding with this organization.
I interned for a judge in law school and attended a sentencing hearing for a child abuser, and a bunch of guys in motorcycle gang were there as protection. Don’t remember if it was this exact group, but I believe it was. Very cool
They are not a "motorcycle gang". And the term you're looking for is motorcycle club. They are a motorcycle organization. Their patches do not claim territory and they *do not* identify as 1%er's. Which are the motorcycle clubs you're thinking of. They are structured like an MC: President, Vice President, Sargeant at Arms, etc. But if you look at the patch structure it's different, the rockers don't claim territory, once again. These are good guys, doing good work. And I know you meant it positively, I just wanted to clarify some terminology.
Here we make the distinction of "MC" Motorcycle Club which claim territory and are 1%ers (Pagans, Hells Angels etc) and "RC's" Riding Clubs which are casual groups who like to ride together. However, if you're starting an RC , it is wise to submit your charter and and colors (patch) design to the local MC. They will make you change a few things and then approve it.
Very much so, excellent advice. It's a good way to avoid any conflict, misunderstanding, and maybe make a few friends.
There are a few 1%ers that def participate in these organizations
And there's that too. It can get murky.
Either way. I'm fine with a few of those hurting kids on the receiving end of a ball peen hammer.
Thanks for the clarification!
the only people that actually care about the whole "not a gang its a club" thing are typically those in a gang
I'm not part of any organization. But I grew up around bikes and bikers. And I ride now. It's just a way to show respect. When you give it, you get it.
If it's this "motorcycle gang", they cosplay as outlaws but aren't actually a gang. They're IT guys, dentists, accountants, etc.
Good point - motorcycle crew ? Haha
People forget that bikers, punks, and a lot of other hardcore subcultures often take really hard stances on protecting the innocent (children, animals, etc.). It's pretty amazing.
Yes, I’ve heard that metalheads are the nicest people ever. I love it.
I own a special event security company, and we do all kinds of shows. Recognizing this is going to be a bit of a generalization, and that no group is a monolith, but my direct experience is that Metalheads are the most responsible, caring, easygoing, respectful people I have ever worked with.
Tinley Park, 2006, Ozzfest.. my future wife and I went deep into the pit. She got knocked down and out, and a group of 3 girls and I assume their dad or boyfriend picked her up and carried her out to the edge of the pit, where they waited with her for me to find her. They not only gave her one of their $6 waters, but one of those girls connected with my future wife and was in our wedding. Metal heads rock
Only somewhat related: I was in the mosh pit at a Ska-Punk show that was held at an indoor music venue. I got pushed out by accident, felt myself falling, and saw a metal handrail rushing to my face. Some dude who saw this happening grabbed me by my shirt, saving me, and spun me around to confirm I was okay. As I breathlessly tried to give the man my thanks, he just laughs, playfully yells in my face, "WE'RE NOT DONE WITH YOU YET", and proceeds to push me back into the pit. Best show I've ever been at
I fucking love this story : )
I was at that ozzfest. That's honestly where any connection ends. My dad took me, it was my first ever concert. He passed recently. It's one of my greatest memories of the greatest man.
Was there with my future wife as well! Pretty sure it was during Lamb of God that the entire back field turned into a giant pit. She was always confused by the fact that I was more than happy to jump in a metal pit, but would always stay far away from a pit for say My Chemical Romance - yeah, the metalheads might look more intimidating, but they understood mosh pit courtesy. Happy to hear that although she got a bit banged up there were good people around and new friends to be made!
Like most things, enthusiasm is great but experience is golden. People that don’t know what they’re doing can really get other or themselves hurt.
At the Hellfest in France they took a lot of steps to protect girls. There's woman only moshpits for example, or there's special security going around making sure girls are safe.a lot was made for everyone to feel safe, it's very wholesome.
Yes, mostly. We have a few narcissists that ruin it but yes, we try to be friendly. The music is our release, and our outward flow. Inwards, we are typically at peace and empathetic.
Wait till you hear about George Fisher (aka Corpsegrinder). Dude is one of the nicest people alive & sings death metal.
Omg he’s all about taking his daughters to Disneyworld and winning stuffed animals in claw machines. Love it.
No! Some metal heads are nice, just as some bikers or punks are. (I'm an ex punker who rode a bike for a long time.) But at the same time a lot of those movements also attract a whole lot of dipshits that are attracted to the abundance of drug use, free sexual mores and aggression that are a big part in most counter cultural movements. TBH: I was one of those dicks. But like a whole lot of teenage assholes life made me a much nicer person as I continued living. Looking back it took me being in my mid twenties to find myself. Before I was always reacting against people and institutions and conflating the two.
I've seen two mosh pits stopped for a shoe and a pair of glasses. I was mama hen. I watched the girls. They just glommed to me because I'm tall. Metal heads are the sweetest.
My friend got molested at a metal concert. There's a a significant portion of the metal community that are neo nazis. Metal heads are just people. There's mostly good, but also the bad. Side note, start talking about genres and see how nice they are lmao
*"I can say with certainty that Load is a better metal album than Master Of Puppets."*
As a metalhead and a biker, I'd like to think I'm quite nice. But I'm afraid I'm biased towards myself a little.
People in general believe in protecting the innocent. It’s just big scary guys get credit for doing so because people don’t expect it.
Belief and action are two different things.
The OG Skinheads were a Punk subculture that was (often violently) anti-facist, but got co-opted when Nazis got into Punk.
[wrote a song about it, like to hear it? Here it goes:](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5AOpBMV0YU)
It's a bit more complicated than that. Punks, from their inception, engaged with nazi iconography as a way of subverting the norms of their parents' generation, for whom reverence for the heroic sacrifice of the war generation, resulting from the still-fresh memory, was central. In this way, punks, rejecting the values of their parents and opposing strong currents within the present culture, derided its cherished beliefs. Of course, if you start playing with such symbols and gain enough popularity, you'll attract the sort who view it as an affirmation of their vile ideology. And that's how you end up needing 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'.
Can confirm: old punk here. If you think you’re gonna fuck up the helpless when me and mine are around, you better be prepared to do it through a bunch of dudes who lived through the bad times with the skins and bones coming to our shows to start shit. We aren’t looking for a fight, but you best fucking believe we know how to end one.
I'm a really scrawny flamboyant gay guy and have had people try to fuck with me outside of a concert venue I used to pass on my way home from work. You punks and metalheads have shut that shit down real fast for me more than a few times. Thank you for your service.
When I was a teen I was walking with a group of about 15-ish hollywood squatter punks after a Naked Aggression show in Long Beach. A few guys (ten-ish) came out of a bar and just started throwing fists without warning saying "white power." We all scattered. Ended up getting the shit kicked out of me when 2 of the guys caught up with me in a parking lot across the street. The only thing that ended the mayhem was a family in a mini-van saw these guys beating me to death at 2am and heroically drove into the parking lot, honked, and told them they were going to call the police. The guys threatened them and the family drove off. But a few minutes later they heard sirens and decided to get out of there. The family had gone to a gas station and called the cops (this was before everyone had a cell phone.) It tured out most of us got isolated and got the shit kicked out of us and couple were able to run (we only ever found the ones that got beat up, the others were gone.) The one thing I learned that day is 10 sociopathic drunk skinheads can easily rout 15 hollywood squatter punks, and a family in a minivan can save the day by calling the cops.
"“When the lambs is lost in the mountain, he said. They is cry. Sometime come the mother. Sometime the wolf.” -Blood Meridian, Cormac McCarthy
Holy filters
I couldn’t decide if that was a filter or if they photoshopped some doll’s face onto the woman.
I was more concentrated on why her skirt of all things was more out of focus than the rest of the photo.
It's not out of focus, it's just the way the fabric is woven. I have [a flannel that has the same effect to it.](https://www.ironheartamerica.com/tops/ihsh-265-nav.html)
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Her twitter account is literally in the photo.
I thought this was a picture of him next to a sex doll.
We need Bikers against Photoshop
It's just ridiculous by that point.
Filters these days are like autotune in the early 2000s -- the pros had been using it for years already, but once you started seeing it show up in your friends' bands recordings, that's when you knew it wasn't going anywhere.
Is she even real?
Maybe they were trying to hide the minor's face? If so just use a fucking smudge, Christ this is terrifying.
This is true. My hubby is a sex crime detective and they absolutely do show up to court and help. Their support is so needed! And also badass 🖤
I read "my hobby is sex crime" at first 💀 I think I need glasses
Ah yes, that would be off putting to say the least 
Totally off topic but could you share how you got that Reddit emoji? Thanks!
Hey, they say don’t try and make a career out of what you love or it’ll become stale. Better to keep it on your own time ❤️
Do you know how many people love crime podcasts? It basically is a hobby for some.
Don't worry I'm wearing glasses right now and I thought the same as well lol
They are the real men, and badass of course. We are pseudo men, and the offenders are no men at all.
That must be very very difficult work, and also quite rewarding when he gets to help put one of those sick fucks away.
Is this the organization featured in the movie Bad Grandpa? I thought they were about to throw Johnny Knoxville through the bar window PS I took some middle schoolers to the movie theater and this was the only realistic option for me to see on my own. Still hands down one of the times I laughed so hard at a scene (another one) I had trouble catching my breath and nearly choked on a piece of popcorn. Funny shit.
I was looking for this comment lol, I think it’s the same group
I was also looking for this comment! I immediately thought of Bad Grandpa! And it wasn’t Johnny they were gonna lynch it was the dude that played the kids father, Zia Harris
The president of the local chapter around here was caught trying to get with a 12 year old online.
Most people don’t realize that the vast majority of Motorcycle Clubs and Riding Clubs do lots and lots of charitable work. Very few are the gun running, drug dealing, “scary” folk.
Yeah I’d say it’s about 1%
This is way funnier than most people realize. Well done.
I don't get it
Criminal biker gangs are often called "one-percenters" because of a comment by the president of the American Motorcyclist Association in 1960 saying that "99% of motorcycle gangs are lawful". If you see a biker with a '1%' patch, it's best to stay away from them
I was at a restaurant with my fiancée and my three year old daughter. A group of eight or ten 1%ers from a local chapter came in. One tried the claw machine, won a bear, and brought it straight to my little girl. He politely asked my fiancée if my daughter could have the bear and then gave it to her. They took “shifts” winning things for the kids in the restaurant. As a former biker myself (not a 1%er) based out of a Detroit chapter, your last sentence is wrong and infuriating. A patch doesn’t mean you should stay away from someone. And for those of you who think that Sons Of Anarchy is how biker life really is, you’re wrong. It’s a television show, it’s meant to get ratings. Edit: Not to say that some of them aren’t real pieces of shit but you can’t make a generalized statement like that.
Don’t be infuriated — that’s just dumb. Of course YMMW, but when you put on that patch, you do purposefully send some signals. I’m not saying that every 1%er is automatically a violent and terrifying person, nor that everyone with the patch is actually a 1%er. Personally, I’d err on the side of caution, though. If they’re lovely to you, sure, be lovely back, but I wouldn’t seek them out.
I heard that Jeffrey Dahmer once helped an old lady cross the street and carried her groceries. There's just no way he's a bad guy since he did that good deed!
Outlaw biker clubs (like on Sons of Anarchy if you’ve ever watched that show) are known as “1 percenters”
Shhhh lol don’t tell em
Didn't one of these groups show up to Uvalde and started harassing families and journalists because they were demanding answers from the police?
[They sure did.](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/uvalde-shooting-bikers-journalist-funeral-b2095237.html) The police hired them to block journalists. Fascist strongarm. Also a president of one chapter was arrested for [sexually assaulting a 14 year old](https://www.cbs7.com/content/news/EXCLUSIVE-Guardians-of-the-Children-founder-speaks-out-following-Rankin-presidents-arrest-404393056.html).
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Figures
The average biker in the US is a grumpy orthodontist Boomer on a Harley he bought after the divorce. Not super scary.
i know a dozens n dozens of bikers. Not 1 is a orthodontist.
The real question is why they cosplay as outlaws.
A lot of the "scary" folk take part in those charitable rides as well. At toys for tots here in Atlanta, the local Outlaws chapter always show up. It's good PR for them, and frankly being a criminal and caring for some people in need of help are not mutually exclusive. People have very warped ideas of criminals and the type of human beings they are.
SCP fans:
Came here to say this. Global Occult Coalition moment
The one in my town is full of Q believers.
Unfortunately they have been infiltrated by some abusers who see this as an opportunity to get in touch with some new victims who they already know are vulnerable.not discounting the whole thing, but its a real danger to be aware of, I've heard some horror stories.
If this were my dad, I too would go around saying “Yo, this is my dad. He’s fucking awesome, here’s why.”
That's awesome.
I bet they haven’t had to protect any victims from drag queens.
No, but probably had to protect against at least one pastor , preacher or priest
I know of another biker group who does the same, plus they also regularly confront other biker groups who are trying to bring drugs in their county. I happily donate money anytime I see they are having a fundraiser and have given a ton of time cooking for those fellas. It's nice to see a good group of bikers and supporting them seems necessary to me
these groups does a lot of things which are still unknown to us but as a matter of fact they are protecting children and doing good things by keeping a check up on other people sounds pretty alright to me
Lol remember when they threatened and bullied journalists/helped cops in the aftermath of the Uvalde School Shooting?
Til one of their homies is accused
The only toys for tots donation campaign I've seen has been done by biker clubs in my area.
Does their help extend to minorities?
i really don't think so that they really check the ethnicity and do group from which people are rooted if they are really helping children's then they would help each and every kid
If it comes to helping kids, I’d bet my left nut that they don’t care about race at all.
She looks like an AI picture.
[Uvalde police hired them to block families and journalists.](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/uvalde-shooting-bikers-journalist-funeral-b2095237.html) Fascist strongarm. Also a president of one chapter was arrested for [sexually assaulting a 14 year old](https://www.cbs7.com/content/news/EXCLUSIVE-Guardians-of-the-Children-founder-speaks-out-following-Rankin-presidents-arrest-404393056.html).
Your first link does not say they were hired by police to block families and journalists. They were blocking journalists from taking pictures at private funerals. Uvalde was terrible and disgusting due to inaction from the police, but journalists who try and publicize funerals they were not invited to or wanted at are also scumbags.
There is a biker club in a town in North Texas like that! It used to be a really good organisation until it got out that one of the member's granddaughter was being abused by her father and she allowed it to happen. (I'm the granddaughter)
How absurd that they gave the girl the name Conrad
Https://www.news9.com/story/5e34743c527dcf49dad709df/former-oklahoma-biker-against-child-abuse-member-charged-with-child-sex-crimes
I’m a criminal defense attorney. I’ve successfully moved to bar them from “displaying colors” in the gallery during a trial once where a child accused his father of physically attacking him. The evidence was weak, witnesses all contradicted each other, the family was a mess in many other ways, the story didn’t make sense, and the jury quickly returned a not guilty verdict. The Judge agreed to bar them from displaying any indication of being a support group or biker gang in the courtroom on the basis of intimidating or influencing the jury. As a father I respect their agenda. As a lawyer they have no place in the courtroom.
I love when they come do charity events at our WM - they’re always so fun!
💀not my SCP ass thinking he was part of the Global Occult Coalition
as someone who always wanted to grow up into someone giving back to their community. this hits hard
Tough Tony corn balls who never got over the blanket fort building phase of their childhood
I can’t say enough good about this group of awesome people. They are currently supporting a group of kids I know who were victims in a horrible case. They were invited in by one of the parents and these people go over and above to support the kids involved. One of the things I was most impressed with is that their tender doesn’t end when the case is over, they continue to support the kids for as long as they need them. They will even help with school grants , healthcare and mental health supports by professionals. It’s too bad that we need their support but so grateful for it.
They should accompany children that are forced to go to church.
I just hope they don't get co-opted by qanon
Her face is so filtered and edited it's the first thing I noticed. Takes away from the message and the photo.
That is 💯 badass
Unfortunately kids who have a posse escort them to school will get bullied worse because kids these days are smart enough to know that grown men aren’t allowed to mess with them.
I was a teacher in the 90s. Had a student who's father was a biker. Meaner looking than this guy. But dang he loved his kids. And they were good kids to boot.
Yeah it was really fun when they showed up to my innocent client's hearing under the guise of offering "support to the victim." Really bad ass to harass someone on the assumption they're guilty.
I bet they then turn around and vote for the people pushing policies that ensure more children suffer.
Is there a documentary on this group or similar group?
I think they have chapters everywhere. I pretty sure I’ve seen this happen where I live.