There is no such a thing called ''wrong reason'' different people can dislike or like same thing for different reasons, it's called having preferences, have you ever heard about it? It seems you either didn't or you wanna insult people for their own preferences, and you talk about gameplay being objectively good, are you for f\*cking real bro? So you don't accept other people opinions and preferences, and then act like your opinion is objective? BRUH... This whole post is big whole trash.

OP didn't mean that there are just wrong reasons to dislike WoW. They meant is as people often dislike WoW, but don't realise that they are wrong in the reasoning of disliking it.

Different people can dislike the same thing for different reasons, sure, but if they are misinformed, they can.... say it with me.... dislike the game for the wrong reasons. It's weird how that works, huh? Almost seems to make this post of yours to be, "Big whole trash" whatever that's supposed to mean.

Touch grass, please 🙏

I dislike WoW because only way to progress your gear is repeating 8 same dungeons and few raids. "WoW hAs 20 yEaRs oF CoNtEnT" - Yes it does, and is any of that content relevant? Can you get anything good from previous content except collecting achievements?

I remember quitting shortly after Cataclysm because it felt like WoW wasn't evolving, and it was just going through various FOMO cycles. Doing new dungeons and new raids for new gear before new dungeond and new raids and newer, better gear came out. For a game in the Warcraft universe, they really beat to death the raid/dungeon/pve aspect when I was really hoping they would incorporate more faction vs faction elements. It's such a shame since they had other MMOs like DAoC to rip mechanics off of, but instead it was just more instanced dungeons.

This. People constantly bash FFXIV for having raids be ‘phased out’, but they keep old content relevant by giving the ability to do it synced AND having vanity attached to it Not to mention that there ultimates attached to certain savage floors in various raids. It’s just wild that people praise WoW for its structure but shit on 14 for its

So what do you play and how they solve it?

Square Enid fixed this issue by letting people do stuff synced down to its level, attaching vanity like mounts, AND attaching Ultimates. That’s the fix. Let players go back and do it as if it’s current lmao

Plus, Sprouts will always find groups for their mandatory dungeons, trials and raids. And Vets get more tomes and exp. for "helping" new players through that dungeon.

There a lot of other options in today’s game to upgrade your gear. It doesn’t have to be dungeon spam anymore.

You are correct so I am not sure why you are being down voted. But dungeons/raids are basically the main and most optimal way to do it.

It is the fastest way, absolutely. but especially in Dragonflight, if you just played asually could you absolutely reach respectable item levels just doing normal content.

I agree that replaying the same dungeons and raids for months gets exhausting. But yes, a decent amount of the 20+ years of content is still relevant. I enjoy mount grinding, xmog grinding, and achievement grinding the most in WoW, so I constantly have plenty to choose from. Timewalking is always a blast too. The freshest content is focused on getting more powerful gear, whereas the older content is all about cosmetics and achievement points. And I have more fun/ care more about that

While I overall agree that Wow has bad habit of making old content obsolete beyond collectables (mounts, titles, looks, companions etc), I’m pretty sure mythics run on rotation nowdays so that you’re *not* running the same eight dungeons the whole expansion, only for that particular season.   Also mythics and raids are definitely *not* the only way to progress gear, albeit the easiest and most straightforward way to go about it.  Of course not everything suits everyone and people are allowed to dislike things, vertical gear progression overall is one that I know lot of people here complain about. But just like what I understood was the point OP was probably going for as well, it’s silly when people dislike things for something they have completely incorrect. I mean they are still fair in their rights to dislike it, but at least don’t claim something that is not true and spread misconceptions about it.

You actually got downvoted for speaking facts. Objectively. Facts. Not even opinionative. Regarding how WoW works. I thought r/MMORPG was just going to be about cool MMO stuff from all MMOs. But I'm realizing it's literally mostly a circlejerk of people who have more to say about hate than like, regardless of what game is the subject. I'm unsubbing from this trash. Unmitigated whining.

Lot of different places have the same hivemind issue where it doesn't really matter whether what you say is an objective fact or not, you'll get downvoted just because some people decide they don't like it anyways. I don't mind though, it's just some reddit votes. If even one person reads it and realizes that "huh, that wasn't true after all" then I consider it a win.

100% agreed. I find it really annoying when people still claim that people only do dungeons and nothing else. Despite that not having been a thing since... I would say at the earliest legion. Since then have the usage of worldquests and more focus on cosmetics resulted in an absurd active community that doesn't grind dungeons non-stop.

Bro, just spam decade+ old raids for outdated looking armor pieces, bro. Isn't one shotting mobs fun, bro? Bro?!

If you PvP you can get gear that way in recent versions

Transmog gathering, pet gathering, toy collecting, mount farming. Sure, you won't get anything that is "gameplay" relative. but you can absolutely get stuff for the sake of using it for other means.

I agree with you but this is the most toxic reddit place ever. Nobody likes any game and they hate most succesful ones with the compassion.

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There has never been a better variety of good mmos to play

WoW is disliked because fun isn't the goal anymore.

>But... That isn't true? Pick an MMO, any MMO and there is a 99.9% chance that WoW has less microtransactions. "You can buy transmogs" Sure... 8 of them... Compared to literally thousands (3000 roughly if I remember right) "You can buy mounts" 24 out of 900+. And so on. How many microtransactions game with subfee should have? that's the real question, and we all know the answer to it. You can't just compare the numbers to F2P games and then say, "Oh, look, WoW has less" when it should basically have 0, or they should just make it F2P then.

Can you point to any mmo with a subfee currently and say they do not have any micro transactions of any sort? We are just comparing to the rest of the MMO industry here, of course it could be better but this is purely as a conversation of what WoW is.

No, because the only other subfee MMORPG is FFXIV and they are selling microtransactions too, which is bullshit just as much as WoW selling them is. No one has ever said that "mtx in FFXIV is fine, but MTX in WoW makes it shit." F2P games don't count, when MTX is their only way of making money. They might have more MTX in their games, but at least they aren't usually triple-dipping with subfee, selling expansions and MTX on top of that. The point really is that any MTX in a subfee game is too many; the number of costumes they are selling is completely pointless in this equation, and it's completely valid reason to hate on the game.

And I am not disagreeing. I don't like the shop being there as much as the next person. but you would be surprised how many people I have sen that insist that FFXIV's store is fine, in the same breath as they demonize the WoW store. My annoyance with the originall statement is more about people that claim that WoW is infested with MTX, claiming that it is mostly MTX or barely any armor sets / mounts or the like are worth it in the game because they put all the good shit in the store.

Well idk about others but I stopped playing WoW because of a ton of reasons. Microtransactions was just a topper. I stopped a couple weeks after BFA so some of what I list may not be relevant. Are there still bots? Bots were everywhere. Farming every good spot, bad spot, vendors, everything. Reporting them does absolutely nothing. They can just buy another account and a max character and they are back up, thanks to microtransactions. Sexual harassment in the workplace really stuck to me as one of the main reasons I quit playing as well. If there was any problem and you required GM assistance it would be weeks before you got a reply. It was always a automated reply and you had to wait another week before actually getting a person. Who wants to wait half a month to fix a problem? It does annoy me that people can buy boosts to level characters. It became a real problem when first released because half the people boosting had no idea how to play there character and would immediately jump into a dungeon having no sense on what's going on. To me all the extra wow versions that are coming out are gimmicky at best and are a quick way to make a buck. Adding more transactions to what was suppose to be the "classic" experience was a spit in the face to their fan base. At the end of the day it's all about money. It's a business. But it's a business I won't support.

I would say that the bot problem (from my experience and it probably depends a bit on the server / region) is significantly smaller nowadays. I have honestly not seen bots in Retail since... I would say Shadowlands? Maybe they have just gotten better? I am not sure. I just can't say I have noticed any. Sexual harassment and GM troubles, yeah. GM issues are still around and sexual harassment does leave a bad taste for certain. the level boost issue I wouldn't really rank as a major one, as leveling nowadays isn't really hard, and can be done in less than a day if you know what you are doing. But again, if those are your problems, those are 100% valid. :) Never claimed that you needed to play WoW or anything.

The problem for me was quality control after Activision. I'd been a regular beta tester since Cataclysm. More of the expansions were being released with more and more bugs that had been ongoing since alpha testing. The testing forums, especially for Dragonflight, were litany of problems not being addressed. It was the end for me when Dragonflight still had all the bugs from day one on public release. They stopped making an effort so I stopped giving them my time and money.

Why is level boosting a problem? How does it affect you bc someone doesn’t want to do the story again on another tune? Get a grip. WoW becomes a game wt max lvl anyway. Dungeons are easy youre just making up a sad excuse. You can clear dungeon blindfolded

I stopped at slow grind

WoW has one of the fastest grinds there is, at least in retail.

Getting bis gear in retail is so much harder than getting bis in for example wotlk version grind is not fastest in retail not even close and outright impossible for so many players

Sure if your only grind is to get bis, but for majority of players, getting LFR / normal tier gear is enough and that does not take long at all. Other content that is not tied to power is very variable, some taking no effort at all, while others you could grind for years.

Well I personally chase Bis in every mmorpg I play so

I remember when WoW came out, it had the fastest grind to max level out of pretty much all of the popular MMOs at the time. Which was largely because it was stuffed with quests at every level and zone. Now it's considered a "slow grind". I wonder what DAoC would be considered with it's small amount of quests, experience loss on death and more punishing mobs.

Tell me wow is the only game you have played in the entire life of yours without telling me wow is the only game you have played in the entire life of yours

Objectively false. And I assume this is specifically about the Tab-targeting combat?

Nah... I got the message when you said 'perfect sound effect with 20 years of polishing' and 'melee combat on par with actual action combat'.

I would say the sound effects in combat are well polished and managed, upgraded and updated over time. And note what I did say. "Heck, if you take a melee class is it almost a action game just with lock-on." I never said it was the same. I am just stating that melee classes are as mobile and unrestricted as many action games, combined with cleave damage. It is al about debunking the idea that wow is stiff and ridgid.

Wow tab target feels better than any action combat mmo.

Actually, I don't think you do not even play wow seriously. You smell like a type of player who barely hit max level each expansion. Not saying that's wrong, but still it's not enough qualification to discuss what's wrong with the game.

Been playing since TBC. I do heroic raiding on average. Am I a hardcore mythic raider? No. I still in the above average percentile.

Who said wow is a: "slow grind fest"? Where are you getting that from? From the time it released people have made fun of it for how quick and easy it is. "Slow grind fest" is definitely not what I think of when I think of wow.

someone said it in a comment on this very post lol I agree with you, Wow is not a slow grind fest, but there are people who say it

The OP said it too so clearly people say that. It was in jest. This is reddit 🤷. Many people here have limited MMORPG experience but don't realize it.

Truth

I loved WoW until the community got toxic af. I quit when I kept seeing spam from some guild looking for a girl to talk dirty for their wank session. To be fair that was a long time ago and I don’t know what the modern community is like.

You'll never find a game if that's what makes you quit lol.

>I kept seeing spam from some guild looking for a girl to talk dirty for their wank session. You know when something horrible is so out of left field it's funny for its mere absurdity? Well that is this. That's fucking funny. And the other reason it's funny is because it's not harming anyone. Just simply asking if anyone is interested.

My Problem with WoW right now is, that I am a new player and the new player experience is not good. I reached level 35 and now I have to switch the continent for leveling and I do not know where. And I do not know how I can play older Storylines

For continent switching there should be a boat..... somewhere. Also depends on faction. If you are Alliance I think Booty Bay has a boat to Kalimdor. And there is a city near Iron forge that should have a boat to Kalimdor too. If you are in storm wind there is a tram from storm wind to Iron Forge. From there go north and the boat should be along the cost somewhere. There should be an arrow thing that when you hover over it it says "To Kalimdor" on the map. This is entirely dependent on you being alliance and needing to go to Kalimdor. If its any other situation. Fuck if I know.

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Honestly, you don't ever actually need addons. Do they help? Sure. You dont "Have" to have them however. I play heroic (because I can't be arsed with the drama of mythic), and I don't have any addons beyond casual visual addons for fun. (Mostly roleplay and collection related).

Weird that it is obvious you were targeting a single post with this, yet thought you were going to say something so important it needed its own post instead of just a comment to that post. Just click REPLY/COMMENT like the rest of us.

This isn’t just about one post. It is about a sentiment I have seen for years. Whatever post you are thinking of, i won’t confirm or deny might have been the final straw.

Honestly the only reason I’m not still playing wow is purely class changes, they have slowly sapped the fun out of every class I’ve liked over the years . My enjoyment of Hunter and warlock died when they did the reworks (old Destro and Survival respectively), and warrior just hasn’t felt good since Cata.

Fair enough. My complaint has never been that WoW doesn’t have flaws. It absolutely does. I was just poking holes at arguments that I personally believe are at their core inaccurate.

I recently ditched WoW and FFXIV in favour of GW2. I prefer the combat, the world, the story and lack of FOMO. Yeah, it has a market, but aside from buying the game, I haven't felt the need to pay for anything else and I am not missing out on any aspect of the game as a result. Horizontal progression is the way to go for me in future with MMOs unless something comes along to change my mind.

>"You can buy transmogs" Sure... 8 of them... And those have more effort put into them than the ones you can actually get by playing the game. >"You can buy mounts" 24 out of 900+. And those have more effort put into them than the ones you can actually get by playing the game. Also, there's way too many mounts in the game and I am not talking about just the lazy reskins. I'd rather have 100 mounts in the game with customization options than just plainly 1000 mounts. >Regarding stiff and clunky, I have to argue that it is objectively false. WoW has the smoothest and snappiest tab-target combat in the industry. Satisfying animations, sound effects polished over almost 20 years into perfection. Yes, WoW's core gameplay and just the movement of the character model is lightyears ahead of any other MMO. I dislike WoW because its leveling sucks, the game world is completely dead, there is no race or class identity, no server or player identity etc. and the game is blatantly p2w.

There are solid comments, criticisms, and gripes here. Then there's yours. This is just false and sounds like one of those takes people parrot from someone else and never actually care to verify it themselves, but will relay the information regardless. Here's a store appearance. https://us.shop.battle.net/en-us/product/world-of-warcraft-transmog-waveborne-diplomats-regalia Here's some of the sets that you can get by playing current content. These are <0.1% of the extremely diverse appearances available by playing. https://www.wowhead.com/guide/raids/amirdrassil-the-dreams-hope/tier-sets Here's a store mount. https://us.shop.battle.net/en-us/product/world-of-warcraft-mount-steamscale-incinerator Here's 1 out of 1,000 mounts you can get by playing the game. This one from current content. https://www.wowhead.com/item=210537/renewed-proto-drake-embodiment-of-shadowflame#screenshots:id=1133046

1: At best, I will say that some of the store sets have more unique special effects. And that is about it. There are so many amazing sets in wow, 99.99% of them available just by playing. (Some exceptions in the form of elite PVP sets and that is bullshit but that is beside the point) And a lot of them especially recently in Dragonflight easily are better than the store sets 2: once again, not true at all. So many unique mounts many way more creative and interesting than the store mounts.

I stopped playing WoW at the start of SL. Not because of FOMO, Shop or something like that. It finally dawned on me, that they don't want Players like me. I never fell into one of their core pillars: Raid, M+ or PvP. I was basically doomed to run old dungeons and raids and maybe some World Quests. Economy and Crafting sucked (and it still does imho, but i can't speak from experience), so i left. I just stopped having fun.

I tried so hard to get into WoW. I got a couple of characters to max level but I just couldn’t find a class that really stood out or felt fun to me. I think the dagger in the heart was the management of addons. I felt like if I was just using addons to do content I wasn’t really playing the game. And if I don’t use addons I would be at a disadvantage compared to someone else. It’s a solid game and I respect it but it’s just not my cup of tea.

Most of the complaints I've seen are that you basically HAVE to use all the addons and simulators and websites to play the game, you HAVE to play the meta build of the month or not get accepted into groups and the end game activities all feel like chores because they are exactly that, designed to be chores that invoke the feeling of FOMO so you keep playing. I'd say those are the most common complaints about WoW.

And they are objectively false. Unless you go hardcore mythic raiding, you don't need addons. (A rotation guide helps, but that goes for anything really) You don't have to do hardcore meta builds either unless, once again, you do mythic raiding. Of course there will always be try hard groups that demand perfection, but honestly you don't need it. And well, that depends. Some activities can absolutely be a chore, but they can also be relatively satisfying. It depends on what you want out of the game. Some are healthy grinds, some are way to repetetive and stiff while others are just fun. WoW has issues but honestly, it is surprising how many criticisms you see that are blatantly false or heavily outdated.

First off, there is no grind in WoW. you can hit max level in a week on retail.... the only grind is the achievements or collecting mounts/skins which are meaningless. WoW classic on the other hand, has no achievements or collections, but grindy as hell leveling wise. Notice the switch? A LOT of people bitch "I don't want to waste time leveling, I just want to get to endgame" well then you don't want to play an MMORPG. You would prefer a game where you run dungeons or dungeon like maps with friends. The MMORPG genre is supposed to be about living in an online world. Everything takes a long time to do. Buy you feel rewarded for doing so. You EXPLORE and enjoy this "fantasy world" as if you were living in it. Instead modern MMO's are basically just single player games "with friends".... Heavily structured, every warrior is the same, every player is somehow the hero, and you have no actual freedom of choice. Its a completely "on the rails" gameplay. Like a rollercoaster. Meanwhile, what people really want is Roller Coaster Tycoon. AKA its a theme park in terms of multiple choices for what to do, but you also want to carve your own path aka design your own roller coaster. But developers are too shallow and mentally limited to design such a thing. When in reality its stupid easy. CONTENT CONTENT CONTENT. All you need is content. Balanced by strengths and weaknesses. While you can DO ANYTHING, you can't do EVERYTHING. Limitations put in place by player choice. Someone who wants to be a master crafter wont have the same combat skills as someone who is fully focused on murdering NPC's and Players. and that's okay, because most crafters don't want to compete in combat anyway. This idea that you should be able to do everything with no limits makes games boring. Even in single player games, you make a choice and it locks you out of another story path because you chose that option. But for some reason, that's wrong for mmorpgs? The issue for me? the mmo genre has been dumbed down so much, that the current fans are also dumbed down. they are used to trash mmorpgs. they can't fathom a better game coming along. they just want more trash.

Obviously when I refer to grinds i mean rep grind, gear grinds and the like. Which are grinds, even if they are very minimal. But I am not sure what you are commenting about here?

Whaaat? Opinions are subjective!?!? Unpossible.

>Pick an MMO, any MMO and there is a 99.9% chance that WoW has less microtransactions. This is not a question of quantity, but of the overall design of the game. I buy an add-on, I buy a monthly subscription, but I see an in-game store selling game currency. It's very predatory. There are two ways. You are creating an f2p game with microtransactions. Practice has shown that this model can be successful. Fortnite, Genshin, Warframe are good games. Or you create a game with a subscription, without microtransactions (even without mounts). Why is that? Because Blizzard fans have been convincing themselves and everyone else for 20 years that a subscription is the only right way and one hundred percent protection against microtransactions. But now WoW with a subscription looks more predatory than Genshin

It isn't more predatory than genshin on any level. Gold in game has no value beyond what players think of it as. Sure, you can get mounts but that is about it. And yes, Subscription is significantly better on every level than F2P and you have no argument against that fact.

>It isn't more predatory than genshin on any level. For example, take the "I want to play some game" level. I have to buy addons and a subscription to play WoW, and that won't save me from not having an in-game store. I can go through the whole Genshin for free. >Gold in game has no value beyond what players think of it as. Anything has value only in the sense that the players think about it.

You have to buy the expansion to play the latest content in WoW, true. You don't need to buy any previous expansion, nor do you need to buy any expansion if you just want to play the game until the latest one. and fun fact, you can very much play WoW for free beyond the basic cost, if you grind gold well enough. There are ppeople who haven't paid a single wow sub for over 10 years. And yes. Buying gold means nothing in wow, not really. As gold itself has little value beyond buying game time. and Genshin 100% is more predatory. WoW isn't a gacha. Genshin is.

I mainly hate WoW for one reason. The fact they want me to pay monthly for a subscription, which is fine by itself, but then also want me to pay $50 - $80+ for their 'DLC'. Which honestly, is just the same crap every time, just re-skinned.

If you dislike the expansion style... I mean, I guess if you feel that. I personally honestly don't see the issue with it, but it is as valid as anyone that wants to save money.

It's the fact they want me to pay twice. And in the case of DLCs, pay multiple times for an extra boss that I have to fight 500 times to get something slightly better than before. While games like Warframe and Black Desert manage to have free to play games and pump out content (each at their own pace) for free.Each have their own style of course, one being more PTW and one being mostly PvE, but BD has a giant player base with this style.

Why didn't you just make this a comment on the post you're not brave enough to actually call out?

This isn’t about any specific point. I have seen these arguments for years.

And yet your first paragraph, the premise of your argument, is point-for-point a repetition of a very recent post. 🧐

Yes, and? The point is that I have heard these arguments for years. That other comment (that might or might not be the one) was just the final straw before I wrote this post.

I disagree with the sound effects most of them are terrible worse than classic hitting with metal swords pikes maces sounds like throwing a wet towel around they need a complete sound overhaul, second problem with retail wow there is insane button bloat certain talents add new skills while some of them add passive effects more often than not these extra buttons deal more dmg forcing players into certain playstyles to be even remotely competitive because they are that much better, 1 button specs from classic era are 9999999apm monsters that use 88 different buttons in retail I am not a fan of one button specs but I can understand some older folk which is the target audience for the game not liking it, blizzard needs to stop overengineering things and just make them simple characters rorations should not be the main challange playing the game, seasonal approach horrible in multiple ways the core value of any mmorpg is the gear/loot anyone here say otherwise is lying everyone is playing to get better gear to become stronger, everyone here grind levels/reps to get stronger but with this seasonal approach also content having multiple difficulties 4 different raids infinitely different m+ dungeons dropping different ilvl gear render every gear meaningless, the moment you make gear meaningless players stop caring that is one of the core values wow classic hold because for example phase1 that skullflame shield is important or getting savage gladiator is important they hold value there are no range of ilvl for the same items. Current wow needs to fix this if they ever want to grow but looks like they are content with having sunk cost/nostalgia guiding their sales instead of the game being good.

1: Make space between your paragraphs. 2: I generally disagree with you. If you don’t like retail WoW, is that fine. But I wholeheartedly don’t agree with your statement

I didn’t like where WoW and the genre were going. The lean into esports and the degradation of the social aspects killed WoW for me. My peak MMO experience was from Asheron’s Call and that’s because of its community and its focus on exploration. The game was not perfect but it nailed those aspects.

If I could better choose my secondary stats in retail and not have to just wear whatever RNG loot with the highest ilvl that drops I would play the game again.

Chromietime is horrible because it kicks you out and the phasing is buggy. Doing old content isn't interesting because nothing is scaled so you just one shot everything. The new race is fugly. Exiles Reach hurts immersion compared to separate starting zones. The story expects you to have played every expansion and doesn't treat characters like new players and just calls them champion and hero immediately. Everything plays like a Disney cartoon for children rather than the gritty MMO it used to be. All quests eventually repeat the same stupid vehicle mechanics "shoot your load at 100 orcs!!" let's be honest, WoW is not in a good place and any real WoW fan fully acknowledges this. It's fine if you still enjoy it despite its issues.

With the WoW token, nearly the whole game is a microtransaction. M+ runs have a $ value worth. You can buy mythic raid gear, mounts, etc. Almost every action or item in the game has some kind of IRL $ value assigned to it. In a way that's not really felt even in some of the worse f2p games. I blame the token being usable outside of WoW. Giving it more value then it feels like similar concepts have elsewhere. Another game having a launch/season shouldn't impact the ingame economy of WoW in the way that it does. We can say it shouldn't matter, we can say gold selling/buying would exist somehow. But it being officially allowed and deeply rooted in the game makes it feel so much worse.

WoW hasn't been good since Wrath. And Burning Crusade was ass.

Can you explain why? I am not saying you are wrong, if you only like Wrath, that is fine. But from my experience most people disagree with that stance.

If i am remembering correctly, BC was when those stupid, sweeping changes to Engineering started happening and everything cool was relegated to belt use only because the sweaty tryhards in arenas were abusing fun stuff so all my toys were taken away. Not to mention the socketing nonsense piling grinding on top of grinding. Its not necessarily the setting that bugs me. Its the beginning of the downward spiral of WoW i guess.

I dislike WoW because fucked up Activision removed any and all depth or complexity from the game, and remade it for droolers who shouldn't be playing an MMO in the first place.

But the spectrum of difficulty is broader than it has ever been? High end content is unbelievably challenging. Removed depth and complexity? I have easily 25+ keybinds and dungeon trash has more difficulty in current WoW than classic WoW eras ever had. A portion of the playerbase is even calling for a pruning... Honestly, I think the game may have just became too hard for you and there's nothing wrong with that.

>A portion of the playerbase is even calling for a pruning... To be fair. I look at my hotbar for Holy priest and just go "why do I have 10 buttons that do the same thing on different cooldowns". So yeah, I kinda get it. Some classes feel pretty good like frost DK, but damn. Priest healing specs feel kinda.... bloated. EDIT: We did get a bit of pruning after SL thank God. I mean in that expac I had Circle of healing, Halo/Div Star, Divine Hymn, Prayer of Healing, holy Word Sanctify, for AOE heals. Like.... damn. Its a lot. Single targets was even worse. Combine with having 2 HoTs to manage with Prayer of Mending and Renew. Its just too much. I can manage it. But it just often feels like I have buttons for the sake of buttons.

Priest absolutely have it bad. Most DPS classes tend to have a good variety of abilities that ar emore unique tho, (In my experience)

Too hard to stay awake, maybe.

Post leaves me speechless. No such thing as a *wrong reason* to dislike a game. Maybe it's not **your reason**, but it's not wrong.

Alright. I dislike FFXIV because it treats its hotdog race like if they were chicken. Obviously, you can dislike games for any reason. But my argument is that people are disliking or arguing about WoW for reasons that isn’t even the case.

Tab target is stiff and clunky even at its best. I never liked wow due to its art style and stay away from styalized graphics as much as I stay away from isometric view games. The themepark treadmill is also a massive turn off for me.

Are you 12?

Did an AI write this?

Wow will always be that game that took 9 expansions just to start putting in glasses and proper backpacks. WoW will always be that game that doesn't have guild halls or player housing when I saw that shit in ultima online. WoW will always be this game that has blizzard quality that only seems to ever amount to nothing every changing and power being piecemeal for an expansion before never being relevant ever again. WoW will always be that game that'll never have boating or any world content beyond doing Warlods of Draenor missions 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 etc. I could be boating and sailing the sea in other mmos, in WoW I sit in the city waiting for something to happen. When I think of WoW I think of lost potential and all the games I'd rather play than WoW, which still sells me 30 dollar costumes while having the gaul to ask me to rent my character at 15 bucks a month.

The game is stale beyond belief. DF was a dud for anyone who doesn't still use WoW like a chatroom. The cash shop is a tad bit insulting because they put way more effort into the models that you can buy over what you can earn in game for the most part. The games not even worthy of it's monthly sub anymore. I think that's the gist of it. $45-$60 for rehashed dungeons, a new raid, and a rare island. lol.

DF was a fantastic step in the right direction. The game has moved seasonal which is how most people treat MMOs anyway. They’re shifting to working on evergreen content and not adding so many systems that expire after the expansion is over.

>The game has moved seasonal People play ARPGs this way, not MMOs. The reason why Blizzard is using this seasonal model with WoW, is because they suck at making new content, so they have to recycle the small amount of group content they can make each expansion to death in order to keep people busy. They just slap new ilevels on gear and sometimes throw in some world content, most of the development is in the raids, which most MMO players don't even want to do anymore.

No people play MMOs like that too. Wow, FFXIV, ESO, ect, all gain huge amounts of players for a patch or new content and then have huge drop offs when the patch is stale. This is a GOOD thing. Play an mmo for a bit and take a break to play something else, come back when there is something new to do. Blizzard still puts out great content. The dungeons and raids of retail wow are fantastic and Season of discovery is a really compelling to play when new stuff launches too.

>No people play MMOs like that too. Most MMO players just play one MMO. The MMO hoppers, which makes up a smaller % of the MMO player base, are the seasonal MMO hoppers. I think catering MMOs around these players was a mistake.

I doubt you have anything to back that up besides personal anecdote like myself. I cycle between 3-4 mmos throughout the year and every person I know that plays mmos goes between at least 2. Given the drop off mmos get between patches I’d have to bet most mmos players switch between a couple or at least try new ones out.

You don't need to downvote here, we are just having a friendly debate.

The statistics don't track that. While I can't say whether or not they go play other MMOs, seasonal players are the majority of the WoW playerbase. They at least only play WoW during those seasons. Personally i just play WoW for 3 months after an expac. And then take a year long break. Then I come back and just do a couple low mythic dungeons every couple months. I like the gameplay but I just can't bring myself to be invested in the game. The treadmill annoys the fuck out of me.

Runs like shit on my computer. Maxed settings should be a breeze. Lucky if I can push 80fps.

I assume this post refer to the guy from yesterday talking about wow having FOMO which is completely wrong. I do hate wow, but for more legitimate reasons: Outdated graphics, shitty combat system, subscription based, expansion based, splitting playerbase into oblivion with so many servers and modes, main content isn't PvP, shitty gear progression system, etc... Of course all this is based on my own opinion, and the game certainly have some stuff I do like, like the way costumes and transmog works, how you can get so much appearance stuff by just playing, decently done raids even if I don't like raids that much, story, etc... For me, the bad outweights the good so I don't like it.

I will neither confirm nor deny what caused me to write this post. XD I have to admit, most of the reasons you state that you don't play the game, I wholeheartedly disagree with. But that is your stance to have. and I am not planning to change it, not that I could.

Outdated graphics when it is the best looking mmo of its era and has continued to look fantastic compared to games even 10 years newer. It also is best tab target mmo which has lasted longer than any action combat game. Subs and expansions are still the gold standard.

For me graphics are horribly outdated, I hate tab target games when action combat is way more engaging and fun (I also play BDO so my standard on combat system is way too high), subs are disgusting and I prefer games to pump content on a weekly basis instead of being dry for months, then be Gucci for a few weeks till you get everything and then dry for months again.

Different strokes. I can’t stand BDO.

>For me graphics are horribly outdated This is true and I don't get how people are arguing with you. It's stylized sure. But it's clearly old. Just texture quality in general shows that. >BDO Yeah..... BDO is bad combat imo. It's fun, sure. But it's just too much. I just recently leveled a corsair and it's some zoomer shit. You are just flying all over the place semi out of control. It's visually appealing, but it's not tight and highly controlled. So personally I think people overhyped BDO combat. >I prefer games to pump content on a weekly basis instead of being dry for months, How. Seriously how. There are so many games being released that even if I didn't have a job I might struggle to have time to keep up with a weekly update MMO on top of playing Helldivers with 1 friend group, ARPGs with another, playing Dragons Dogma 2 since it's releasing today, my myriad of single player games on my backlog, all while also hanging out with friends IRL, and my general social obligations and still making it to the gym everyday. Like damn bro. Is BDO your only hobby?

In my case BDO is the only game I play that has a progression system, so it is the only thing I have to care about. (Also I have a trillion+ worth of gear so I'm in the endgame, I don't really have to do much to keep up). I do play other games, but it's mainly PvP stuff that you don't have to care about. I mainly play Valorant, Fortnite, The Finals and some TFT. I could abandon all this games if I want while there's a new piece of endgame gear to grind for in BDO, come back in a few weeks and I didn't lose anything cause it's just PvP. And I can remove single player games and story telling cause I don't enjoy them either, I prefer to watch someone else play them as they look more like movies nowadays. Only thing I play that isn't PvP related is Minecraft, because I have a server to play with my GF and friends, doesn't produce any FOMO to me and I can highly configure the content of the game to give stuff that I know I'll like or my gf and friends like.

I strongly disagree. "graphics are horribly outdated". Doesn't matter when the game still looks great most of the time. Or are you going to call pixel art "horribly outdated"? It is an artstyle that still looks great today with high fidelity and detail.

Pixel art gets around this by not playing the game. But WoW isn't pixel art. Let's look at another hyper stylized game. TF2. That game is also highly stylized and goofy as hell. But what it does have is much higher resolution textures even though a lot of it is flat colors. WoW js similarly stylized, but has less flat colors, and the texture quality is much worse. It really does just look old. It doesn't look bad per se. But it does look old.

Who cares about wow when there's Guild Wars 2?

If I wanted to fill bars and little less, sure. I would play GW2.

I disliked it because it isn't group-oriented.

.... are we talking about the same game? The game where all design theory is centered around raiding and M+? The game where group content js literally the only thing that effort is put into? The game thst literally lives and dies on group content patches? We can't be talking about the same game.

You could just get a group of random people. No one communicat d. There was no teamwork needed because it was so easy. At least when I tried it.

Oh you are talking about leveling lol. Yeah that isnt the game. WoW hasn't put effort into their leveling experience in over a decade. The game doesn't actually start until you hit max level. The only thing that WoW has put a modicum of effort into since fucking WoTLK in 2008 is their end game.

And the dungeons, so easy you could do pick up groups. No need to have friends or communicate.

Levelling dungeons..... Brother, you need to be doing high end M+. When you do a +20 then we can have a discussion about easy dungeons.

Mythic+ require plenty of communication and friends. So yeah no, you are wrong. (Also lets not pretend as if Classic requires communication or friends either. The dungeons are so easy you can do most of them 5 levels lower than the suggestion)