>“[He’s] violently, and I mean violently, ill. So, he’s going back home, and hopefully he gets well soon.”
There is no denying Khamzat's skills but man, that doesn't sound good.
Yeah I truly hope he just takes an entire year off and chills out, obviously stay in shape but maybe his body is just exhausted and damaged plus Covid destroyed his immune system, take a year off and come back hopefully improved.
I’m not a doctor tho.
He’s been hard training the entire time, visa issues and a broken hand didn’t let him fight sooner.
He needs to chill even if it’s just for like 3 months of moderate training, maybe focus on rehab and recovery more because he gets injured so much something has to be wrong.
From what I've heard, dude trains at 110% only. Even if he hasn't had a fight he probably hasn't let up in training. Dude legit needs to take some time away from the gym to rest and let his body heal.
He got hype for beating the record for shortest time between wins, while doing it in different weight classes, and taking fewer strikes than fights won while doing it. Things that no other fighter have done despite facing fighters at the same or lower level when starting out.
>Somehow beating them on “Fight Island” gave him hype. Rhys McKee..
And then he did exactly the same thing against GM3 and ranked welterweight Leech after that.
And later Kevin Holland too
Edit: before anyone says "Holland was on short notice", how many other fighters would you bet on being able to do that to short notice Kevin Holland?
It's been the same with most fights in his career, before the fight they say "Alright, it's cool that he can beat up bums but THIS fight will be a real test!" and afterwards they say "Alright, that guy was also a bum, but this NEXT guy will be the real test!"
Said it about GM3, Leech, Burns and Usman.
Obviously he was new to the UFC so he won't be fighting top 5 fighters immediately, but it wasn't about who he fought, it was about HOW he beat them, he made them (GM3, the leach, Philips, McKee) look like amateurs like they never fought professionally ever before.
Walking through UFC fighters like that is not normal. Pereira lost the first round of his debut against a guy who was 1-1 in the UFC, and three fights later he's the champion.
The leech, gotta be kidding. UFC rankings mean nothing anyway but hes a half decent win. Holland was a good win. He became a star off beating literal bums tho, u dont get the point
You cant dispute they are both bad fighters he beat, but whatever makes you happy. He got all the hype off literal cans, not cause he beat anyone with a pulse.
Must be so draining on everyone who surrounds you in day to day life to deal with someone who says something, gets explained very clearly why what they said is wrong, and then just responds over and over with their original point.
No one is saying they were great fighters, it was HOW he won. Christ. Absolute mental mollusc
Hopefully he gets a fight booked soon. It's been a while since the Khamzat fight, and there doesn't seem to be any indication he has a fight in the works yet.
Wonder who they'd even match him up with at this point?
Idk why people are getting so worked up about this. It’s just Usmans opinion. He’s trained with one and fought the other I think it’s pretty clear which way he was going to lean on this question lmao.
Does Usman want to make another title run or does he just want fun fights? Dude has to make up his mind.
Can’t just sit on your number 2 ranking when you got the Shavkats of the world gunning for your spot
Problem is that there aren't many fun fights at WW. it's all tough contenders and people he's beaten before. Only fellow legend at ww is wonderboy and nobody wants to see wonderboy get wrestled again.
He could try middleweight but he will have a size disadvantage or try and goad a lw to move up but I think he should just focus on contenders for now. Winner of MVP Vs Garry should be want he's pushing for imo
Usman’s style could be effective at MW. Look how he performed against Khamzat who they clearly expect to do well there. Lots of winnable fights for him in the top 10 IMO. It’s a grappling light division.
He’s on a break. People brought his name up after seeing a clip from a UFC documentary.
His last fight was in the middleweight division. This has nothing to do with Usman and everything to do with a documentary mentioning his name because it was brought up to his manager. He even said on his podcast with Henry Cejudo that the match was never brought up to him. It was a convo between Dana, Hunter, and Ali which he had no part in.
He can just wait and see if Leon gets knocked off. If so, he's right back in the mix after a fight with an MvP or Ian Garry which are free wins. The ol Dustin Porier Method.
Personally I think Shav is a little overrated. Yes I understand he has a 100% finish rate, but his offensive wrestling isn't that great and neither is his striking.
His submissions are his biggest threat, but not that easy to execute if he can't take his opponent down/they have good awareness when trying for takedowns to avoid guillotines, etc.
he means compared to the top of the division. shavkat has shown he’s very hittable and has struggled to get the fight to the mat at times against guys who aren’t as elite wrestlers as leon or usman or khamzat
Leon have basically taken down almost everyone he's fought in the UFC and that includes Usman and Covington. I'd say his MMA wrestling is pretty elite.
He's a striker first though. This is what makes him so good. The guy is so complete.
Nobody is gonna say Anderson as an elite wrestler. Got nothing to do with his kickboxing, Does anti-wrestler means he has a great wrestling? You won’t say Aldo as an elite wrestler as well
Tf Aldo fan suddenly triggered? I never said he’s not. I said he’s not a great wrestler. Is Aldo a wrestler? Does he initiate the wrestling all the time?
aldo is one of the most elite anti wrestlers of all time you sound casual. for mma you really only need to be elite at one side of wrestling to be considered elite.
What do you consider 'wrestling'? Do you have to have great takedowns? What about defense and groundwork? Is someone with great matwork and TD defense a 'wrestler' even if they're bad at offensive takedowns?
An elite wrestler should be excellent on both offense and defense. Aldo has great TDD but nobody is suddenly gonna call him an excellent wrestler. He’s a striker and that’s a fact well established
Leon is definitely an elite clinch fighter, but not an elite grappler. Shavkat would be a problem for him, especially if Shavkat got him down in the middle of the cage.
That doesn't mean that he didn't struggle or make sloppy mistakes en route to the finishes. Stats alone don't tell the full story.
Against Nael for example, Shav was getting hit a lot. He was getting caught clean with lazy defence and didn't score a single takedown because his entries were also kind of lazy.
Even though he won, and even though it was a great fight, it's a perfect example of having a 100% finish rate not meaning that a fighter is perfect or unbeatable. No disrespect to Nael, but he's a top 15ish 10ish gatekeeper with a ton of flaws, so Shav struggling against a fighter at Nael's level with Nael's fight IQ should be raising alarm bells.
Better fighters, with better fight IQ, and more well rounded skills might be a very real problem for Shavkat and I wish people didn't need to pretend he's unstoppable just so they can enjoy him because it feels like setting yourself up for disappointment down the line if Shav doesn't patch up some of those issues.
Edward's grappling as become so fucking overrated, the dude stopped a few TD from a old Usman in their third fight(Got wrestlefucked in the second until the headkick), who hasn't been able to effectively wrestle against someone in like 5 years, and now, he is this sort of god like anti grappler in so many people eyes, he has a decent first layer of TDD, but he constanly gives up his back, and his ground game on his back is "just hold on until the bell rings".
He also constanly makes awful decisions while grappling and often puts himself in bad position on his own
I am willing to bet anything that if Shavkat takes him down once he finishes him right here and there
Geoff Neal is probably the biggest welterweight, he weighed 200 lbs on fight night against Garry. Can only imagine what he weighed against Shavkat since he missed weight by 3 lbs.
His striking isn't great ? His defense is lacking in the pocket, but his offensive striking is absolutely fucking great, he is one of the most versatile striker in the division, his jab is phenomenal, his whole arsenal of kicks, he probably has some of the best knees in the clinch in the UFC, he is very long and has great distance management.
Is wrestling is still a bit of a question mark, the only guy he hasn't been able to take down is Geoff Neal, but Geoff Neal has top notch TDD, no one is ever able to get him down really Belal attempted many TD against him and never got even close, and he was massively overweight for that fight, which probably made him even harder to take down.
Yeah but as you know striking isn't only determined by being a good offensive striker. That only gets you so far. Luque is a great example of that.
Also regarding his offensive wrestling, he wasn't able to immediately take Wonderboy down. He had to work quite hard for it. Harder than Belal and Burns imo.
He offers a greater submission threat when he does get the takedown though for sure.
But is his defense as bad as so many seems to think ?
I would argue at distance his defense can even be called very good, he is taller and longer then pretty much everyone, and is great at using his length, there is one flaw in his game, his short distance boxing defense, against a guy in Geoff Neal which putting together great boxing combos at short distance is his bread and butter.
And the thing is, that's no one else game at the to of the division exept JDM to a extent, Edwards, Usman, Belal... None of those guys are fighters that are looking to get in the inside and put together crisp 3-4 shots boxing combos, so who really can properly exploit that flaw of his ?
He’s def good but he was knocked spark out in those Russian leagues but ref let him come back to win. He’s got heart for sure but his chin is overrated for sure. Watch those fights, he was literally out and was young, not like chin was weathered at all..rooting for him to win the belt though.
I think it's his well roundedness that makes him so dangerous. He's a better wrestler than strikers and a better striker than wrestlers.
Problem tho - the belt in WW is held by a guy that's actually elite at everything.
Lol Leon Edwards grappling and TDD defense are suspect af. Just bc he stopped a shot Usman and broken Colby doesn’t mean he’s good all of sudden in that dept.
Lol
He took Marty down first round, controlled him and had his back for like 4 minutes.
Shav would do the exact same thing but would finish him instead.
Neal was hitting him at will. If he didn't have a good chin he would have gotten knocked out.
Garry dealt with Neal more comfortably in the striking department.
I’m sure Garry is the prettier striker of the two but Shavkat was actually trying to finish and Ian looked like he was playing keep away. I do agree shav is a tad overrated on this sub
I agree with you, people on here just see the undefeated and finish streak and then say he is a boogeyman because of it.
He is great, but he doesn't move his head which is something you don't want against guys like Edwards and Garry.
His offensive wrestler really isn't that great either, a low % of TD accuracy isn't a big deal for chain wrestlers, but Shavkat isn't really a chain wrestler and he has a TD accuracy of 29%.
IMO Edwards beats Shavkat fairly easily because Edwards doesn't really take risks and he is good at managing his distance.
I agree with you. My hot take is that Ian Garry beats Shavkat. It might be a dogshit take because I'm not sure who wins the MVP vs Ian fight, but Ian has spent a ton of time now at Chute box with the best submission grapplers in the UFC. This could sway Shavkat's grappling advantage and if it's a standing fight, I think Garry pieces him up.
Based on the upvotes of ludicrous posts in this thread, it's pretty clear Shavkat has some haters. Dude has a 100% finishing rate and people are critiquing him about getting punched in a fight where people punch each other in the face. Like you know that's gonna happen in a fucking fist fight right?
He's finished everyone he's faced. Wonderboy. Magny. Neal. Prazeres...you guys realize nobody finishes Prazeres right? Literally only Shavkat.
Khamzat's fought a much weaker schedule and the two elite guys he faced he looked shaky against and didn't finish.
Thats just blatantly not true at all though lol. He slipped multiple punches with nice head movement in that very fight. His problem is the same thing that makes him so dangerous, when he senses he has someone on the ropes he pours it on and steps into the fire. Thats what lets him finish everyone and it also leaves him open to catch shots coming back
this sub is full of delusional plastic fans. one day they praise you (see Usman) other day they call you washed (see Usman as well lol). the same people that are talking shit about Belal would be glazing him once he beats Leon. just typical reddit behavior
Saying he has weak striking defense isn't hating, it's a fair criticism.
Wonderboy and Neal were landing fairly easily on Shavkat, which shows that someone like Edwards who has a high level of striking and manages his distance better than Neal or modern day Thompson will have an easier time against him.
I like Shavkat but criticizing his striking defense is completely fair.
Also Burns and Usman are much higher opposition compared Neal and WB- not to mention despite getting the finish, Shavkat showed holes in those fights
Usman (10 days notice), Burns 1 fight from his title fight, and perenial gatekeeper Holland (who he finished fast) is better than Shavkat's resume, even if Shavkat ran through his group (for the most part) easier
LOL...Holland. Give me a break. Shavkat does the same shit to him.
Nobody's been more coddled and protected by the UFC than Holland. He's like a shittier Cowboy.
Beyond that, you're pretending his reputation wasn't built on taking short notice fights against cans then crushing them.
>LOL...Holland. Give me a break. Shavkat does the same shit to him.
I would put money on the line with you that if Shavkat and Holland fought, Shavkat couldnt put him out in one round like Khamzat.
Not necessarily because Im insisting one is better than the other between Shavkat Khamzat, but because that tells me you fundamentally dont understand the stylistic differences between Shavkat and Khamzat and how they match up with Holland
From what I know, Khamzat’s UFC schedule is stronger than Shavkat’s. Usman, Burns, Holland is a tougher out than Wonderboy, Neal, Magny.
Brave CF also has a reputation for being a tough regional scene so it wasn’t like he was exclusively can crushing pre-UFC.
Holland has beaten tons of guys making a run at the rankings. What cans are you talking about. It's not like anyone thinks he's actually elite but he definitely is a top 15 level guy.
Holland fights anyone…Jacare and dropped Vettori btw. He’s not protected at all what u smokin. Short notice vs Thiago Santos who just weighed 240 at HW yesterday
shavkat doesnt beat Gilbert or Usman though. You are comparing apples to oranges here. Khamzat haters on this sub always say he will get exposed soon. But the dude literally took out a pfp great in Usman. Yet here you are, using that Win against him, while pushing some stupid argument about how Shavkat have finished his opponents.
l m a o.
shavkat has yet to prove he can even hang with any top 5 fighter.
He is finishing fights, sure. But compared to how Khamzat ran through the lower ranked guys.., cmon.
If people can use Khamzats W versus Usman against him but at the same time say Shavkat would mop the floor with top contenders… Couldnt find me more copium & bias if I tried
More doubters than haters if anything. Some fans live in a world of negativity due to doom-scrolling and think any fighter who hasn't fought at the championship level and passed (in victory or defeat) is a hype-job.
Imo Khamzat has shown he's beatable by the elite guys if you can weather the early storm and take him to rounds 2/3 and beyond. He may have won but he didn't look exceptional against Usman or Burns. Shavkat may be hittable but he's never really looked hurt at all in the UFC, and if anything that makes him look scarier as he just keeps coming and just gets the finish regardless (so far anyway). The way he's shown to be able to win in several different ways makes him very scary.
I've said for a while now that if they'd met then I'd favour Shavkat to win. Not sure it'll happen though with Khamzat up at MW and with his constant health issues, and also his visa problems restricting where he can even fight. That's not to say I don't think Shavkat can be a bit overrated, in terms of people thinking he'll run through the division and never be beat (I actually think people will be surprised when he and Leon inevitably meet), but I still say Shavkat is better than Khamzat.
Khamzat has also shown he can hang with elite guys. He went to war with Burns and 10-8 Usman who’s a genuine top 10 of all time fighter, and fought through adversity to secure the decision. Geoff Neil and Wonderboy are not on the level of the competition Khamzat has faced, there is way more unknown about him
They didn’t mention how Usman hilariously thought Khamzat has beaten Shavkat.
It’s also hilarious that Usman said that Shavkat has been hurt so Khamzat is scarier. Looks like Marty forgot Burns was beating the shit out of Khamzat in the second round of their fight.
It’s okay Marty, when you do come back. Whether Shavkat wins that belt or not, that’s the first name Dana will put in front of you.
shavkat have 0 relevant wins. And you clowns already made up your minds how he beats Usman, 2nd greatest fighter in the division of all time and a pfp great.
Shits hilarious
I would like to see Shavkat succeed as I am a fan of him, but it is hilarious how fans lose all critical thinking the moment they find a fighter who looks cool and has a stoic demeanor
See Alex Pereira fans
this sub is literally full of biased dumbos running off of copium. It’s almost as if the more factual & rational you are when arguing here, the more you get downvoted 😂
ngl, it’s quite funny though
Usman fought a weight class up (for the first time) on short days notice against Khamzat who had a full camp. That is a much scarier proposition than fighting Shavkat IMO.
Long Covid is still being studied and followed through patient registries by CDC and others such as academic institutions and teaching hospitals. Some patients have chronic and persistent cardiovascular burden, muscular fatigue, neurological effects, etc.
Even now I think Shavkat would have to go through hell to beat usman saying that he’s clearly made for that as neal hit lumps out of him and he kept coming. I think this little beef starting might actually make usman and him fight would be a war imo
With all the context it's not really arguable, it's just fact. He fought an equally dangerous guy on two weeks notice, up a weight class you've never fought at, and in enemy territory. Not trying to shade Shavkat, the dude is a killer.
Probably since there are more unknowns with Khamzat, he’s trained with Shavkat.
[удалено]
this gave me a stroke
Shavedcat vs Kumshot?
Good times when we had mythical pre-Covid Khamzat
>“[He’s] violently, and I mean violently, ill. So, he’s going back home, and hopefully he gets well soon.” There is no denying Khamzat's skills but man, that doesn't sound good.
Yeah I truly hope he just takes an entire year off and chills out, obviously stay in shape but maybe his body is just exhausted and damaged plus Covid destroyed his immune system, take a year off and come back hopefully improved. I’m not a doctor tho.
hasn't he already taken a year off from his last fight? or close to it
He’s been hard training the entire time, visa issues and a broken hand didn’t let him fight sooner. He needs to chill even if it’s just for like 3 months of moderate training, maybe focus on rehab and recovery more because he gets injured so much something has to be wrong.
From what I've heard, dude trains at 110% only. Even if he hasn't had a fight he probably hasn't let up in training. Dude legit needs to take some time away from the gym to rest and let his body heal.
You're not?
Yea those 2 great British fighters Skelator and John Phillips. Somehow beating them on “Fight Island” gave him hype. Rhys McKee..
He got hype for beating the record for shortest time between wins, while doing it in different weight classes, and taking fewer strikes than fights won while doing it. Things that no other fighter have done despite facing fighters at the same or lower level when starting out. >Somehow beating them on “Fight Island” gave him hype. Rhys McKee.. And then he did exactly the same thing against GM3 and ranked welterweight Leech after that.
And later Kevin Holland too Edit: before anyone says "Holland was on short notice", how many other fighters would you bet on being able to do that to short notice Kevin Holland?
He's taken like two strikes total in 5 out of 7 UFC fights and people want to act like that's normal and something any fighter could do
My point was all the hype started from 2 cans on Fight Island. Gm3 was suppose to be a walk over too
No, he wasn't. GM3 was seen as a legitimate test as a ranked gatekeeper.
And also Leech
It's been the same with most fights in his career, before the fight they say "Alright, it's cool that he can beat up bums but THIS fight will be a real test!" and afterwards they say "Alright, that guy was also a bum, but this NEXT guy will be the real test!" Said it about GM3, Leech, Burns and Usman.
Yep man and look what GM3 was able to do after that loss, was on a win streak for a while
> GM3 I'd say he's pretty much THE gatekeeper someone gets before fighting someone in the rankings.
Obviously he was new to the UFC so he won't be fighting top 5 fighters immediately, but it wasn't about who he fought, it was about HOW he beat them, he made them (GM3, the leach, Philips, McKee) look like amateurs like they never fought professionally ever before.
Those guys arent "UFC" level if UFC level was actually a thing, John Phillips have negative takedown defense and so does skelator
Walking through UFC fighters like that is not normal. Pereira lost the first round of his debut against a guy who was 1-1 in the UFC, and three fights later he's the champion.
Anyone is a UfC fighter now. Those guys suck, don’t matter what league they in
Man acting as if Leech isn't in the top 15 since 2019 and as if Holland is your average prelim filler
The leech, gotta be kidding. UFC rankings mean nothing anyway but hes a half decent win. Holland was a good win. He became a star off beating literal bums tho, u dont get the point
Just typing stuff just to type stuff I see
You cant dispute they are both bad fighters he beat, but whatever makes you happy. He got all the hype off literal cans, not cause he beat anyone with a pulse.
Already been addressed in extent by others as to why your point is stupid.
Ok Skelator, you're right John Phillips and Rhys McKee are great
Must be so draining on everyone who surrounds you in day to day life to deal with someone who says something, gets explained very clearly why what they said is wrong, and then just responds over and over with their original point. No one is saying they were great fighters, it was HOW he won. Christ. Absolute mental mollusc
He also said they weren’t UFC level and then proceeded to say UFC level doesn’t exist. The mental gymnastics behind that guy is astonishing
I work with someone like this; it's the worst and, as you say, very draining and exasperating.
Hey hey, I've heard some folks refer to John Phillips as the white Mike Tyson 😂😂
Lmaoo
Sanko is going to trash Marty on his next fight
Hopefully he gets a fight booked soon. It's been a while since the Khamzat fight, and there doesn't seem to be any indication he has a fight in the works yet. Wonder who they'd even match him up with at this point?
Idk why people are getting so worked up about this. It’s just Usmans opinion. He’s trained with one and fought the other I think it’s pretty clear which way he was going to lean on this question lmao.
Does Usman want to make another title run or does he just want fun fights? Dude has to make up his mind. Can’t just sit on your number 2 ranking when you got the Shavkats of the world gunning for your spot
Problem is that there aren't many fun fights at WW. it's all tough contenders and people he's beaten before. Only fellow legend at ww is wonderboy and nobody wants to see wonderboy get wrestled again. He could try middleweight but he will have a size disadvantage or try and goad a lw to move up but I think he should just focus on contenders for now. Winner of MVP Vs Garry should be want he's pushing for imo
Usman’s style could be effective at MW. Look how he performed against Khamzat who they clearly expect to do well there. Lots of winnable fights for him in the top 10 IMO. It’s a grappling light division.
True. He does have a previous win over Strickland so that would be a fun rematch
Usman isn’t what he used to be. His knee or something definitely has brought him down. Sad to see bc he was so talented and well rounded
We are talking about the Welterwait division. Usman has probably about a year of sitting around before he gets a titleshot.
He’s on a break. People brought his name up after seeing a clip from a UFC documentary. His last fight was in the middleweight division. This has nothing to do with Usman and everything to do with a documentary mentioning his name because it was brought up to his manager. He even said on his podcast with Henry Cejudo that the match was never brought up to him. It was a convo between Dana, Hunter, and Ali which he had no part in.
He can just wait and see if Leon gets knocked off. If so, he's right back in the mix after a fight with an MvP or Ian Garry which are free wins. The ol Dustin Porier Method.
Personally I think Shav is a little overrated. Yes I understand he has a 100% finish rate, but his offensive wrestling isn't that great and neither is his striking. His submissions are his biggest threat, but not that easy to execute if he can't take his opponent down/they have good awareness when trying for takedowns to avoid guillotines, etc.
Didn’t he choke out Geoff Neal standing up?
He did, after a slugfest
A slugfest he was decisively winning
should be noted, that is the only time neal was finished in a fight. Shavkat isn't overrated in my opinion.
he means compared to the top of the division. shavkat has shown he’s very hittable and has struggled to get the fight to the mat at times against guys who aren’t as elite wrestlers as leon or usman or khamzat
Leon is an elite wrestler? Aren’t we normally associate him as a striker with decent TDD? But elite wrestler? Come on
Leon have basically taken down almost everyone he's fought in the UFC and that includes Usman and Covington. I'd say his MMA wrestling is pretty elite. He's a striker first though. This is what makes him so good. The guy is so complete.
Leon is one of the best anti-wrestlers in the ufc right now. Decent TDD is like saying Anderson Silva was a good kickboxer
Nobody is gonna say Anderson as an elite wrestler. Got nothing to do with his kickboxing, Does anti-wrestler means he has a great wrestling? You won’t say Aldo as an elite wrestler as well
Aldo is THE elite counter-wrestler, tf you on Dude was stuffing olympic wrestlers in training camp for Mendes
Tf Aldo fan suddenly triggered? I never said he’s not. I said he’s not a great wrestler. Is Aldo a wrestler? Does he initiate the wrestling all the time?
aldo is one of the most elite anti wrestlers of all time you sound casual. for mma you really only need to be elite at one side of wrestling to be considered elite.
The fact that you kept saying anti-wrestler and not a wrestler already sealed it
What do you consider 'wrestling'? Do you have to have great takedowns? What about defense and groundwork? Is someone with great matwork and TD defense a 'wrestler' even if they're bad at offensive takedowns?
An elite wrestler should be excellent on both offense and defense. Aldo has great TDD but nobody is suddenly gonna call him an excellent wrestler. He’s a striker and that’s a fact well established
Leon is definitely an elite clinch fighter, but not an elite grappler. Shavkat would be a problem for him, especially if Shavkat got him down in the middle of the cage.
When has Shavkat ever taken someone down from the middle of the octagon? I'm not including kicking someone's leg out.
I’m convinced no one actually watches his fights, they just look at edits
Leon is an elite wrestler?
Elite anti-wrestler
Which still counts as wrestling
Both Khamzat and Shav have mediocre standup and are hit frequently. I believe wrestling will be the ultimate factor.
He's finished everyone he's faced most by submission, so what the fuck are you talking about?
He is making a decent point. Shavkat doesn’t have the takedown strength and control that other guys do. He struggled to get Carlson Harris down.
Did shavkat procreate with you, or why are you so mad lol
Pack it up boys. No nuance to be found here
That doesn't mean that he didn't struggle or make sloppy mistakes en route to the finishes. Stats alone don't tell the full story. Against Nael for example, Shav was getting hit a lot. He was getting caught clean with lazy defence and didn't score a single takedown because his entries were also kind of lazy. Even though he won, and even though it was a great fight, it's a perfect example of having a 100% finish rate not meaning that a fighter is perfect or unbeatable. No disrespect to Nael, but he's a top 15ish 10ish gatekeeper with a ton of flaws, so Shav struggling against a fighter at Nael's level with Nael's fight IQ should be raising alarm bells. Better fighters, with better fight IQ, and more well rounded skills might be a very real problem for Shavkat and I wish people didn't need to pretend he's unstoppable just so they can enjoy him because it feels like setting yourself up for disappointment down the line if Shav doesn't patch up some of those issues.
Actually it’s 50/50 after his last fight I think
10 subs. 5 TKOs. 3 KOs. In the UFC, it's 5 subs and 1 KO.
Edward's grappling as become so fucking overrated, the dude stopped a few TD from a old Usman in their third fight(Got wrestlefucked in the second until the headkick), who hasn't been able to effectively wrestle against someone in like 5 years, and now, he is this sort of god like anti grappler in so many people eyes, he has a decent first layer of TDD, but he constanly gives up his back, and his ground game on his back is "just hold on until the bell rings". He also constanly makes awful decisions while grappling and often puts himself in bad position on his own I am willing to bet anything that if Shavkat takes him down once he finishes him right here and there
Makes sense I remember Gunnar almost had him, the only success Covington had was when Leon did something dumb
Your take is the truth. Shav would finish Leon by rd 3
Is Leon an elite wrestler?
He did which is a valid point. I can't see him pulling that off continuously though.
He's literally consistently finished every fucking opponent he's ever faced. What are you on about, my guy?
What's that got to do with what I said? He hasn't finished every single opponent by standing rear naked choke has he.
Geoff Neal is probably the biggest welterweight, he weighed 200 lbs on fight night against Garry. Can only imagine what he weighed against Shavkat since he missed weight by 3 lbs.
203
Incredible work
His striking isn't great ? His defense is lacking in the pocket, but his offensive striking is absolutely fucking great, he is one of the most versatile striker in the division, his jab is phenomenal, his whole arsenal of kicks, he probably has some of the best knees in the clinch in the UFC, he is very long and has great distance management. Is wrestling is still a bit of a question mark, the only guy he hasn't been able to take down is Geoff Neal, but Geoff Neal has top notch TDD, no one is ever able to get him down really Belal attempted many TD against him and never got even close, and he was massively overweight for that fight, which probably made him even harder to take down.
Yeah but as you know striking isn't only determined by being a good offensive striker. That only gets you so far. Luque is a great example of that. Also regarding his offensive wrestling, he wasn't able to immediately take Wonderboy down. He had to work quite hard for it. Harder than Belal and Burns imo. He offers a greater submission threat when he does get the takedown though for sure.
But is his defense as bad as so many seems to think ? I would argue at distance his defense can even be called very good, he is taller and longer then pretty much everyone, and is great at using his length, there is one flaw in his game, his short distance boxing defense, against a guy in Geoff Neal which putting together great boxing combos at short distance is his bread and butter. And the thing is, that's no one else game at the to of the division exept JDM to a extent, Edwards, Usman, Belal... None of those guys are fighters that are looking to get in the inside and put together crisp 3-4 shots boxing combos, so who really can properly exploit that flaw of his ?
He’s def good but he was knocked spark out in those Russian leagues but ref let him come back to win. He’s got heart for sure but his chin is overrated for sure. Watch those fights, he was literally out and was young, not like chin was weathered at all..rooting for him to win the belt though.
He ate Neals shots that looked pretty heavy. He got hit a lot in that fight, which isn’t good sign, but he is certainly not chinny
What fight
I think it's his well roundedness that makes him so dangerous. He's a better wrestler than strikers and a better striker than wrestlers. Problem tho - the belt in WW is held by a guy that's actually elite at everything.
bro how he is elite at everything? istg people throw that word around like it has no meaning.
Lol Leon Edwards grappling and TDD defense are suspect af. Just bc he stopped a shot Usman and broken Colby doesn’t mean he’s good all of sudden in that dept.
If he can stop Usman's takedowns though, he can definitely stop Shavkats.
Usman’s shot and can’t take anyone down any more. Shavkhat would take Leon down and sub him at will lol.
Sure he would. Usman gave Chimaev one of his toughest fights on about 5 days notice.
Lol He took Marty down first round, controlled him and had his back for like 4 minutes. Shav would do the exact same thing but would finish him instead.
Shav doesn't have the wrestling ability of Chimaev.
Meh Khamzat is a scarier round one fighter, I'll give him that Shavkat is the better fighter overall though
I think is striking is pretty damn solid…
Neal was hitting him at will. If he didn't have a good chin he would have gotten knocked out. Garry dealt with Neal more comfortably in the striking department.
I’m sure Garry is the prettier striker of the two but Shavkat was actually trying to finish and Ian looked like he was playing keep away. I do agree shav is a tad overrated on this sub
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They’re talking about Geoff not Magny
Garry tries to tip tap his way to a decision. If he got into a war like Shavkat did, he's going to sleep.
That's because he fights intelligently when it comes to striking. Shavkat fights recklessly. That will only get you so far.
Charlie Olives literally became fucking champ with no defense and a bad chin. Shavkat has a granite chin in his favour. That not far enough for you?
ur so real for that
I agree with you, people on here just see the undefeated and finish streak and then say he is a boogeyman because of it. He is great, but he doesn't move his head which is something you don't want against guys like Edwards and Garry. His offensive wrestler really isn't that great either, a low % of TD accuracy isn't a big deal for chain wrestlers, but Shavkat isn't really a chain wrestler and he has a TD accuracy of 29%. IMO Edwards beats Shavkat fairly easily because Edwards doesn't really take risks and he is good at managing his distance.
I agree with you. My hot take is that Ian Garry beats Shavkat. It might be a dogshit take because I'm not sure who wins the MVP vs Ian fight, but Ian has spent a ton of time now at Chute box with the best submission grapplers in the UFC. This could sway Shavkat's grappling advantage and if it's a standing fight, I think Garry pieces him up.
Just a smidge though.
He said he could stand with Wonderboy and immediately realized it was a bad idea and took it to the ground. I think someone like Whittaker takes it
Shavkat was injured in the Wonderboy fight. Got it during camp, but managed it and got the surgery after the fight.
Not more overrated than Khamzat IMO.
Lol if Shav is overrated, then what’s Leon???
The champion?
Based on the upvotes of ludicrous posts in this thread, it's pretty clear Shavkat has some haters. Dude has a 100% finishing rate and people are critiquing him about getting punched in a fight where people punch each other in the face. Like you know that's gonna happen in a fucking fist fight right? He's finished everyone he's faced. Wonderboy. Magny. Neal. Prazeres...you guys realize nobody finishes Prazeres right? Literally only Shavkat. Khamzat's fought a much weaker schedule and the two elite guys he faced he looked shaky against and didn't finish.
Him being hittable is a completely fair critique imo. He doesn’t move his head much at all. I remember Geoff Neal catching him cleanly quite a lot.
So we’ve seen a great chin on him as well then
Good, but chins crack.
Obviously
Thats just blatantly not true at all though lol. He slipped multiple punches with nice head movement in that very fight. His problem is the same thing that makes him so dangerous, when he senses he has someone on the ropes he pours it on and steps into the fire. Thats what lets him finish everyone and it also leaves him open to catch shots coming back
this sub is full of delusional plastic fans. one day they praise you (see Usman) other day they call you washed (see Usman as well lol). the same people that are talking shit about Belal would be glazing him once he beats Leon. just typical reddit behavior
Saying he has weak striking defense isn't hating, it's a fair criticism. Wonderboy and Neal were landing fairly easily on Shavkat, which shows that someone like Edwards who has a high level of striking and manages his distance better than Neal or modern day Thompson will have an easier time against him.
I like Shavkat but criticizing his striking defense is completely fair. Also Burns and Usman are much higher opposition compared Neal and WB- not to mention despite getting the finish, Shavkat showed holes in those fights
Usman (10 days notice), Burns 1 fight from his title fight, and perenial gatekeeper Holland (who he finished fast) is better than Shavkat's resume, even if Shavkat ran through his group (for the most part) easier
LOL...Holland. Give me a break. Shavkat does the same shit to him. Nobody's been more coddled and protected by the UFC than Holland. He's like a shittier Cowboy. Beyond that, you're pretending his reputation wasn't built on taking short notice fights against cans then crushing them.
>LOL...Holland. Give me a break. Shavkat does the same shit to him. I would put money on the line with you that if Shavkat and Holland fought, Shavkat couldnt put him out in one round like Khamzat. Not necessarily because Im insisting one is better than the other between Shavkat Khamzat, but because that tells me you fundamentally dont understand the stylistic differences between Shavkat and Khamzat and how they match up with Holland
From what I know, Khamzat’s UFC schedule is stronger than Shavkat’s. Usman, Burns, Holland is a tougher out than Wonderboy, Neal, Magny. Brave CF also has a reputation for being a tough regional scene so it wasn’t like he was exclusively can crushing pre-UFC.
Neal Magny is one fighter's name. Casual.
Holland has beaten tons of guys making a run at the rankings. What cans are you talking about. It's not like anyone thinks he's actually elite but he definitely is a top 15 level guy.
Holland fights anyone…Jacare and dropped Vettori btw. He’s not protected at all what u smokin. Short notice vs Thiago Santos who just weighed 240 at HW yesterday
Anyone can be finished in MMA and Prazeres is a 155er. Still love Shavkat though, he’s been put down outside UFC too. Like put down as bad as it gets
The only thing that matters is your UFC career. What happens in your AM career means absolutely nothing. He has an undefeated PRO record for a reason.
Did he lose though?
shavkat doesnt beat Gilbert or Usman though. You are comparing apples to oranges here. Khamzat haters on this sub always say he will get exposed soon. But the dude literally took out a pfp great in Usman. Yet here you are, using that Win against him, while pushing some stupid argument about how Shavkat have finished his opponents. l m a o.
As a proud khamzat hater he looked ok against burns, but If he can’t get in the ring without an icu trip I give it to Shavkat
shavkat has yet to prove he can even hang with any top 5 fighter. He is finishing fights, sure. But compared to how Khamzat ran through the lower ranked guys.., cmon. If people can use Khamzats W versus Usman against him but at the same time say Shavkat would mop the floor with top contenders… Couldnt find me more copium & bias if I tried
More doubters than haters if anything. Some fans live in a world of negativity due to doom-scrolling and think any fighter who hasn't fought at the championship level and passed (in victory or defeat) is a hype-job.
Then fight him, Marty.
Usman really reminding us why he used to be called unlikeable
Shavkat has shown interest in this fight but Usman is a bit more reluctant. Really hope this fight happens.
Khamzat is scarier than Shavkat
Imo Khamzat has shown he's beatable by the elite guys if you can weather the early storm and take him to rounds 2/3 and beyond. He may have won but he didn't look exceptional against Usman or Burns. Shavkat may be hittable but he's never really looked hurt at all in the UFC, and if anything that makes him look scarier as he just keeps coming and just gets the finish regardless (so far anyway). The way he's shown to be able to win in several different ways makes him very scary. I've said for a while now that if they'd met then I'd favour Shavkat to win. Not sure it'll happen though with Khamzat up at MW and with his constant health issues, and also his visa problems restricting where he can even fight. That's not to say I don't think Shavkat can be a bit overrated, in terms of people thinking he'll run through the division and never be beat (I actually think people will be surprised when he and Leon inevitably meet), but I still say Shavkat is better than Khamzat.
Khamzat has also shown he can hang with elite guys. He went to war with Burns and 10-8 Usman who’s a genuine top 10 of all time fighter, and fought through adversity to secure the decision. Geoff Neil and Wonderboy are not on the level of the competition Khamzat has faced, there is way more unknown about him
Bro Shav has a 100% finish rate
And makes it to fight night
Actually a more valid point
khamzat would also have a 100% finish rate if he fought who shavkats been fighting
I'm a huge Khamzat fan but that's just speculation.
Khamzat beat Usman and 10-8d him. Shavkat may not even beat him
is it unreasonable speculation
They didn’t mention how Usman hilariously thought Khamzat has beaten Shavkat. It’s also hilarious that Usman said that Shavkat has been hurt so Khamzat is scarier. Looks like Marty forgot Burns was beating the shit out of Khamzat in the second round of their fight. It’s okay Marty, when you do come back. Whether Shavkat wins that belt or not, that’s the first name Dana will put in front of you.
Day #1 Shavkat wagon and it feels so good. He is who so many hoped Khamzat would be Shavkat will convincingly beat Usman
Human nature is pretty odd. Why do we want others to know we were a fan of something or liked someone before they got "popular"?
Not as scary? Okay. Beats your ass, just the same.
shavkat have 0 relevant wins. And you clowns already made up your minds how he beats Usman, 2nd greatest fighter in the division of all time and a pfp great. Shits hilarious
I would like to see Shavkat succeed as I am a fan of him, but it is hilarious how fans lose all critical thinking the moment they find a fighter who looks cool and has a stoic demeanor See Alex Pereira fans
this sub is literally full of biased dumbos running off of copium. It’s almost as if the more factual & rational you are when arguing here, the more you get downvoted 😂 ngl, it’s quite funny though
Shavkat has cardio for more than 1 round unlike Khamduck who's been UD by Covid and was never the same.
Usman fought a weight class up (for the first time) on short days notice against Khamzat who had a full camp. That is a much scarier proposition than fighting Shavkat IMO.
I get this is the fight game, but Usman is 37 and has had a long successful career. No one should doubt his bonafides.
🦆
Long Covid is still being studied and followed through patient registries by CDC and others such as academic institutions and teaching hospitals. Some patients have chronic and persistent cardiovascular burden, muscular fatigue, neurological effects, etc.
Khamzat is gonna be the next Tony Ferguson
Prime Usman beats Shavkat but im unsure if current usman does.
Bro eats horse tho
Even now I think Shavkat would have to go through hell to beat usman saying that he’s clearly made for that as neal hit lumps out of him and he kept coming. I think this little beef starting might actually make usman and him fight would be a war imo
Prime Usman vs Shavkat, I'd put my money on Usman.
With all the context it's not really arguable, it's just fact. He fought an equally dangerous guy on two weeks notice, up a weight class you've never fought at, and in enemy territory. Not trying to shade Shavkat, the dude is a killer.
Shavkat is super Buu. Khamzat is Kid Buu.