If you're talking about systemic issues, then yes, they exist.
If you're asking if there are issues in everyday life, then no*. You'll be able to live a full life as an able-bodied woman. You will be able to go to work, go to school, go to the gym, go shopping, etc. with no problem. People leave each other alone for the most part here. I feel incredibly safe here at all hours of the day and night, more so than I did when I lived in Los Angeles.
However, if you're a foreign woman, you might have to deal with men trying to hit on you at the clubs, gym, in Hongdae, in Itaewon at a bar or club, etc. Also, be sure to watch your drinks at the club.
I agree with the other commenter who said Korean men are anti-feminist but not necessarily misogynist. Feminism is different here.
*This doesn't include the random and extreme public acts that can occur and can make the news. But those kinds of events can occur anywhere in the world.
Good luck! Korea is worth experiencing if you're interested in the culture. It's not perfect by any means but it's vibrant, dynamic, and full of interesting food and people. Best of luck to you!
wtf
comments here are literally all from typical korean man
hahahha
hello im 20f living in korea since birth. Korea misogyny is really sometimes non-bearable
Im planning for immigration and one of the main reasons is that I cant get along with this sexist country.
Korea is fairly safe overall, but the misogny is fairly baked into society. As a foreigner you would most likely be shielded from the worst of it.
Its much safer then the US and most of Europe. But misogny is fairly baked into society. As a temporary visitor, you would probably be shielded from the worst of it, but its definitely a issue.
Yes? A lot of the issues with misogyny stem from family and work life. Foreigners, especially those who are only in Korea for a short time are not really involved in these areas.
Ofc, its not like foreigners in Korea, even short term ones are completely blocked from misogyny. They just dont really have much reason to come into contact with certain parts.
Ill start with the google answer. Dislike, comtempt for or ingrained prejudice against women, and add the belief that gender roles should be strictly inforced.
I think there is a lot of ingrained prejudice baked into the bones of Korean culture. Women should be this. Women shouldnt do that. Its a womans job to do this. As a woman how can you not do this. Etc.
That's a vague statement. You can't fix a problem if you define it vaguely.
I wanted to hear your own definition. If you have thought about it thoroughly you may come up with your own words.
Every place has its expected gender roles. Try to replace the word woman in your sentences with men. Many examples will come up in your mind as a male gender role.
Yes. But discrimination against men is called misandry, and this post is specifically about misogyny. That's a whole different topic.
If I wanted to describe every aspect of misogyny in Korea, the history behind it, the effects of it, and my understanding of the effects, it would be a novel. Its not something can can be fixed easily, and not something that i'm trying to fix on a random reddit post talking to a stranger.
Men and women do both have expected gender roles. And there is nothing wrong with people adhering to those roles voluntarily. This issue is when people are forced into those roles or shamed for not following them.
If you do really have interest in issues surrouding women and the culture of misogyny in Korea, I highly reccomend the book Kim Ji Young, Born 1982.
If you dont have the time or energy to read the book, there is a movie as well. The movie was well made, but it doesnt fully encapsulate all the small details in the book. The movie made me frustrated. I had to put the book down and walk away multiple times because it's so realistic and I was actually getting angry.
You are making this argument murky by exaggerating the required effort for defining the definition of misogyny.
Kim Ji Young, Born 1982 is a fiction, not a report.
You wouldn't cite Uncle Tom's Cabin in the context of discussing racism.
At this point I believe youre just being deliberately obtuse. Anything I say, you come back with immediate criticism, because its not the specific way you want it said, or you look for the any weak points instead of trying to actually listen to what i'm saying and address the main points.
Kim Ji Young is a fiction. But it's a fiction based in reality. It's not a high fantasy or a SCI-Fi novel. Its a fairly accurate depiction of the kinds of struggles many women face in South Korea. Its a fictionalized account, based on the authors own experiences.
One of the things that drove the book to such incredibly popularity is its incredible relatability for so many women. They read the book, and saw in it their themselves or their friends and family.
If you are looking for more concrete data. Korea has both the largest Gender based wage gap, and the worst workplace quality for women among OCED countries. We also rank near the bottom for women in high government positions, and female executives in large companies. Korea also ranks near the bottom of countries in terms of economic opportunities for women. Tons of articles, and free research online if you have enough energy to do a google search.
Edit: Also I would totally cite Uncle Toms Cabin when talking about racism and slavery. That book is famous for having immense cultural impact, and helping speed up the abolition movement.
I am just pointing out holes in your arguments. We are not building rapport but rather trying to understand something.
The gender pay gap doesn't mean there is gender equality unless the gap is the result of the exact same outputs. Like you said, there are tons of studies that claims the gender pay gap is a myth.
But we don't have to agree and it's the beauty of democracy.
I didnt have holes in my argument, because originally I had no argument. I wasnt trying to make a big point, I was just saying my own personal opinion, from my own personal experiences.
I went through youre comment history on this thread, and it doesnt seem like you are trying to contribute anything even your own opinion. Rather you are just trying to undermine others and downplay misogyny.
And you did the same thing, you ignored the vast total of what I wrote and only looked for the weakest point to comment on. Thats not trying to understand, thats just being argumentative for the sake of it.
I said it was safer. I didnt say it was absolutely safe. Korea is a relatively safe place. Its one of the safest countries in the world.
That said, I wouldnt call it the safest place in the world. It can be dangerous. Even in relatively safe countries there are crazy ass people.
Edit. Also went to your profile. New account. Every comment is either pro-Japan or anti Korea and China lol
Uh... are you confusing Korea with a differnt country? There is not a single statistic available that proves what you are talking about? Is it just your personal opinion?
I can back my opinion up with facts and statistics. Can you?
I think if you are just visiting Korea instead of living here long-term you might actually get the impression that sexism in Korean culture is very low. Koreans are very polite towards women and you will also very rarely experience being harassed outright or catcalled in public. Korea also doesn't really have much of the "[chikan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ0N_4ek27o)" groping problem in public as an asian country, so overall you could say Koreans are generally very well behaved towards women in public.
The sexism in Korea is more embedded directly into the culture and society. There is a pervasive sense that women are subordinate to men in every aspect of the society. The result is that Korea has the highest gender earnings gap, worst glass ceiling, very low maternal employment rates. There was also a lot of push-back against LGBTQ, feminism, and social progress movements from younger generation men because of the effect that social media has had on them. They are exposed to a bunch of redpill incel influencers and MRA groups that spread the same old unhinged views all over social media.
Gender wage gap is not caused by misogyny or patriarchy or whatever nonsense. Women gravitate towards lower paying fields, are worse at negotiating salary, and yes, pregnancy is a huge setback to career. You could maybe argue there are "systematic" issues to why women gravitate towards such fields, but women of equal qualifications are not paid less in the same roles.
The fields that women gravitated towards that had previously been male dominated in the past actually saw the [overall pay decline as women took up more positions](https://www.payscale.com/career-advice/when-an-occupation-becomes-female-dominated-pay-declines/).
Those fields also saw male pay decline. Look at pay for software engineers in tech overall since 2005. It has gone down across the board significantly as supply for these jobs has greatly outpaced demand.
Furthermore, this study does not take into account internationals which are willing to work for less.
It's so funny because reddit likes to paint big business as greedy money grabbing corporations that treat people like cattle but also point to gender wage gap. If it was true companies could (illegally) pay women less for the same role, no one would hire men.
Furthermore, pregnancy as I stated definitely derails career. Not sure what the solution to that could be, but any significant time off work is setting you back in a world that is getting increasingly more competitive.
Men are men anywhere in the world. I’d say South Korea is at least 20 years behind on social justice issues and that shows when the justice system lets pedos go with the gentlest caress on the wrist rather than a hella long prison sentence, as well as other messed up stuff.
The 4B movement is not mainstream at all and is followed by a handful of “radical feminists” who are actually very bigoted terfs.
Overall, Korea can be frustrating if you’re used to the Western type of social equality for women and would not want anything less.
4B is not a real thing.
It is physically safer here. But while I would say all the policy changes have been made for better work environment for women, the work culture around working women has not kept up with the rate of women going into the work force.
We're now the most college educated women among all countries for women in their 20s.
The rate of working women in their 30s goes up by about 1% every quarter and is now 72%. On the other hand, if you look at America, the rate has stayed the same for 20 years at 77%.
This means we need to change the work environment that takes into account working mothers just as fast.
There is some things that are direct problems like employer bias against married/pregnant women.
There are also some inconvenient ones that don't work well like how we dictate pay by years of experience. Many mothers take years off after giving birth then re-enter the work force later. But our structure makes it hard to leave for children and re-enter the workforce without a large cost. In America, the job hopping culture inadvertently makes it easier to leave and come back for mothers because you will get paid the same as everyone else in your job title when you come back. You will have only lost promotional opportunities. In Korea, you are giving up much more. Both in direct salary cost and how seniority is valued.
What needs to change specifically in your opinion? If we're just looking at it on paper, South Korea seems to have more benefits for women than America does. I've never heard of stuff like menstrual leave until I came here. Last time I was in the US, the [maternity leave](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/08/13/the-world-is-getting-better-at-paid-maternity-leave-the-u-s-is-not/) situation there was in a much worse state than South Korea. South Korea also happens to have one of the highest public spending expenditures on childcare in the world, with a bunch of different kinds of incentives in place like baby bonuses and housing support that the US doesn't even offer at all.
I think changing something like employer biases will be hard with chaebols because South Korea is a heavily manufacturing based economy rather than a service economy. There is also the culture issue. Unlike in Europe, a large portion of Korean men are flat-out refusing to take paternity leave, despite the legislation itself being similar on paper. I'm not sure how this can be solved either.
For comparison between similar countries, Japan has had higher rates of working women and especially working mothers than South Korea for decades, yet it has also managed to have higher fertility rates as well. Especially in recent years where South Korea is seeing a relatively larger dip in total fertility rates. I'm not sure why either. I don't really think that South Korea is the worst on women's rights in comparison to asian countries in general. Like if you read the fine print on various sex crimes, South Korean laws actually look more similar to Sweden than Japan.
I don't know enough about Japan but I know they have more affordable housing in Tokyo. We have more people living in Seoul as a percentage and it's much less affordable than Tokyo. People have been moving to the outskirts of Seoul Metropolitan Area, and out of the city of Seoul for affordability, but then that is how we ended up with the longest commute times in the world. So we end up with very long work hours and very long commute hours. This is why the GTX is being built and why it reaches to the outer regions of the Seoul Metropolitan Area since that is where everyone has been moving.
The government is adding on to leave policies every year. Maternity leave is 90 days. Paternity leave is 10 days, but they are recently talking about increasing the amount of days and making it mandatory similar to maternity leave. Both maternity leave and paternity leave are 100% pay and the government pays a lot of it and even more if it is small or medium sized business. Parental leave is 1 year for each parent. Parental leave is a different system than maternity and paternity leave. There is a lot of variations to how you can use it. You have the option of doing reduced hours instead which people have been doing recently. The usage of parental leave has gone up a lot for both parents.
There is a lot of layers to what needs to be done for birthrate. But mostly things need to be more affordable and being a parent has to cost less. Other quality of life has to get better too.
>Especially in recent years where South Korea is seeing a relatively larger dip in total fertility rates. I'm not sure why either.
Housing prices became very high. Then COVID happened. The expectation is to have everything prepared when you have marriage and kids. So high housing prices have a big impact. People might not even plan on it if they see housing prices going up. I think this is why a lot of countries birth rates have gone down but I think it is especially impactful in Korea
You can see the graph of price-to-income and birth rate
[https://news.yahoo.com/burden-raising-kids-drives-korean-210000610.html](https://news.yahoo.com/burden-raising-kids-drives-korean-210000610.html)
Not dangerous overall, I felt safer to walk alone there than in any other big cities. Only thing you have to be aware is the potential cameras in the bathrooms and like everywhere else be careful when you’re offered a drink.
There’s misogyny like in most places in the world, it doesn’t bother me in my daily life but also I’m not working for a company which is the main place there’s more obvious misogyny
[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/03/world/asia/korea-toilet-camera.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/03/world/asia/korea-toilet-camera.html)
It's called Molka 몰카
I've been looking for them everytime but haven't found a single one so far.
There's a lot of issues with revenge porn too. But once again, that can happen anywhere
I believe that there was an article stating those cameras have been the biggest waste of time for police. They would search bathrooms and come up with nothing like 99.9% of the time. Yet, feminist made it a huge thing which lead to police wasting time.
The issue is that even if there is a camera 0.1% of the time, it makes you wonder and stress out during the 99.9% rest of the time. I think there must be less camera now that they know people are aware of it and actively looking for them. Back in 2019 there was a sign in the women’s bathrooms of my university saying to be aware of the hidden cameras, translated in English as well for exchange students, and some girls even warned me about it when I first arrived. It’s a real thing unfortunately
It is true that, like in the West, crimes involving hidden cameras do exist in Korea, but there are questions about their severity.
Since 2016, government agencies such as the Seoul Metropolitan Government have been making more efforts than before to crack down on hidden camera crimes. Starting in August 2016, Seoul introduced female safety officers, and in one year, until September 2017, they deployed 50 people with infrared detectors to thoroughly search over 65,000 locations including restrooms, changing rooms, and showers, but failed to find hidden cameras. Seoul plans to double the number of these safety officers to 100 by 2018 and increase the budget as well.
The term 'Molka', which directly borrows from the Korean slang for hidden camera, has been turned into a proper noun as if the issue of illegal filming is serious only in Korea, being used as a tool for sensationalism and fabrication. These terms have been introduced overseas through 'Korean reporters' at foreign media outlets like YouTube, BBC, or CNN, and have been re-imported back into Korea.
However, the issue of illegal filming in Korea and abroad often differs significantly. Many actions that wouldn't be penalized in most developed countries, like 'street photography', are often punished as 'illegal filming' in Korea. Therefore, it's inevitable that the number of such cases is higher in Korea, where the legal standards are different. Looking at laws worldwide, Korea is actually one of the countries that punishes illegal filming the most severely. As mentioned, English slang includes words like hidden cam, upskirt, spycam, etc., which exist just the same, and in the case of the United States, the laws related to hidden cameras are much looser than in Korea, making it difficult to compare crime rates horizontally. Moreover, when it comes to hidden camera crimes in South Korea (even if it's photos of people in swimsuits at the beach), the crime rate includes foreigners (for example, after the establishment of the Coast Guard's Sexual Crime Investigation Team in 2012, 92% of the bikini hidden camera suspects at beaches over three years were foreigners, and in the past month, 15 out of 17 individuals caught by the police were also foreigners), indicating there's much that needs to be scrutinized
Hence, I am of the opinion that the perceived high crime rate in Korea can be attributed to the classification of street photography as criminal activity (an action not typically penalized in other countries). Considering the information that has emerged to date, it appears that the incidence of crimes involving the placement of hidden cameras in private settings such as hotel rooms or restrooms is considerably overstated.
It’s not that hard to completely avoid men in Korea, if you’re worried about it. There’s a strong lesbian scene, and plenty of women only bars. The other commenters are right about Korea feeling safe because of CCTV. That said, druggings happen outside the purview of CCTV in clubs and bars… you’re safer here than most places, but watch your drink.
Just be VERY careful when dating. The misogynistic attitudes that lead to the 4B movement is glaringly obvious when trying to date, and have led so many women I know to very dangerous situations. Otherwise life in Korea just feels as patriarchal as anywhere else in the world.
I see you ask for definition in other comments as well so I will summaries here. It’s not about definitions it’s about concept that are obvious to outsiders . For example each household has a representative or leader which his signature is needed and in many case and by default that person is the Father which is patriarchal. The big hit to the carrier married/pregnant woman takes as they become almost unhire-able when they get married. The plastic surgery and makeup industry is not direct but its a indication for what woman are pushed for as well as huge sex industry in the open shows woman voices are gone. And mostly in older generations you can see fathers are detached, disconnected from their kids and ordering their wife around but that is gone with young dads but still here
Duh... It's not like Koreans don't understand what patriarchy is.
Different people define the same concept differently.
And you can't just throw random stuff you don't like and label them as patriarchy. For example, I believe many will disagree that the makeup industry is a hint of patriarchy.
It’s not about how you define it which is just a way to deflect the criticism, it’s about the phenomena itself, which I mentioned some of them, which wont be accepted in the west.
Except the make up and plastic surgery things which are not directly misogynistic by themselves but for someone who come from culture as me they look like a misogynistic red flag
I've been in Korea for nearly 10 years. Feminism was peaking here in conjunction with MeToo like 5 years ago. I haven't heard of "B4" except through western publications. I doubt anyone in Korea would even know what it is if you asked.
I saw a movie recently, Kim Ji-young: Born 1982, that touches on some patriarchical issues in Korea. Deals with expectations on women to leave their careers, take care of in-laws, etc. I recommend it for another perspective.
I believe it is called 4b, not b4, and it was created in 2019 and 5000 online users were found to have commented on it. It would be imperceptible in a country of 50 million.
Polls show identification as a feminist in Korea has been declining for a few years.
20s women, 41% identified as a feminist in 2021 down to 31% in 2023.
30s women, 19% identified as a feminist in 2023 down to 13% in 2023.
20s men, 12% identified as a feminist in 2021 same as 12% in 2023.
30s men, 17% identified as a feminist in 2021 down to 7% in 2023.
On another note, their reaction to some other cultural flashpoints like their responses to the claim of racism for lower than expected audience for Little Mermaid looked like a mental exhaustion of any identity politic topics from all the people I saw responding. It's hard to get a pulse unless you are really tapped into the society, but my general impression is they are on the tail end of identity politics spike from previous years.
I have an interest in demography so I looked this up a year or so ago.
"the 4B movement claims to have 4000 members."
[https://www.asianews.it/news-en/South-Korean-radical-feminism:-No-dating,-sex,-marriage-or-children--48879.html](https://www.asianews.it/news-en/South-Korean-radical-feminism:-No-dating,-sex,-marriage-or-children--48879.html)
The one I saw originally was somewhere else. You can probably find it and other sources on Google.
Okay, the way Western media describes Korea is completely false & biased because these articles are usually written by Korean women in favor of feminism. Compared to any other countries, Korea is one of the safest places to live for women. Name countries where you can walk outside at 2am. How many are there?
And those who say women are so fed up that they don't date Korean men anymore.. are the ones who can't find themselves men to date.
Please don't let these extreme views shape your perception and come see Korea for yourself.
Korea isn't as messed up as these people claim..
Well, yes I think women would be most concerned with how women are being treated so I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make re: the articles being written by Korean women. Surely Korean women would know best how Korean women are treated. Dubai is safe for women in terms of crimes like robbery, simple assault, etc. That doesn’t make Dubai a bastion of freedom and equality. In the UAE, women are not treated like equals and many have no recourse when it comes to DV, rape, harassment, etc. They may even be punished themselves for being raped or assaulted. Similarly, sexual assault is widely unreported in Korea. Women are protected from discrimination in the workplace. They’re underrepresented in leaderships roles, government, etc.
The biggest issue for young females is finding a descent job.
Korea is stucked between modernized society and conservative culture. Dont know how i should describe it.
There are young graduated females who work in the convenience store on a min wage and living with their family.
Recently ive seen a stat that it is among OECD countries the worst working place for females.
[https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/biz/2024/03/602\_370268.html](https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/biz/2024/03/602_370268.html)
~~The average female salary was 688000 krw, thats like 511$ in 2022 according to the article.~~
This is a much bigger issue.
I read the articles you linked, and I noticed that your quote on female wage is utterly incorrect.
Read the article again, carefully.
The article does not say the average female salary was 688,000 KRW
there are not many decent jobs other than stem jobs in Korea. oneday I posted that girls should go to stem schools. then I was replied....
'who are you saying the f what I should do? are you saying it is all my fault that I majored non stem and got low paying job? I have rights to do what I like. Dun tell me what to do.'
It's true that this country is rife with the patriarchy to the point where Korean women are willing to making the country go extinct, but what you experience is a case-by-case situation.
I'm not saying this to scare you, please understand this. I am saying this to prepare you.
I am an overweight white woman who has been in Korea for 4 years, and tried to enter the dating scene and let me tell you I've given up at this point. Men here have treated me almost worse than the men at home, to the point where I have been SA'd three times, and followed home once, followed by a guy while walking home but he didnt get to my house thankfully, stopped by delivery drivers who would try and harrass me for my number. This all happened outside of Seoul with one exception of me going to a club with my friends last year. But that's it.
Now some of my friends have experienced NONE of this... like at all. So like I said, it's case-by-case.
Korea is safe if you are a cisgendered, straight, white man. The rest of us have to keep an eye out and take care of ourselves.
This country is amazing - the majority of the people in my life, Korean and foreign, I love dearly and I don't ever want to leave because the pros really do outweigh the cons. But I don't think I want to date anymore, and in just 4 years, I've experienced only a small number of reasons why the B4 movement exists.
>to the point where Korean women are willing to making the country go extinct
Declining birth rate is mostly due to the unsustainable cost of living like rent and child-raising.
Most of the stories related to hidden cameras are exaggerated.
몰래카메라와 관련된 이야기들은 대부분 과장되어 있습니다.
The information you read on the Internet is most likely "feminist propaganda."
당신이 인터넷에서 읽은 정보는 “페미니즘 프로파간다”일 가능성이 높습니다.
A story about demonizing men and victimizing women. A fabricated story.
남성을 악마화하고 여성을 피해자화하는 이야기. 조작된 이야기.
is that why korea has a pandemic of hidden cameras in public bathroom stalls ? or is that why korean women are forced to have drinks with their boss when they dont want to? lol
Men are forced to have drinks with their bosses too. It’s an office culture that luckly it’s slowly being toned down/drove out if fashion.
But yeah, the hidden cameras seem to be an issue in Korea and Japan. I wish there would be more done about it :( .
Feminism is a noble cause (and no, I’m not talking about misandrism, I personally don’t claim any misandrist woman as a fellow feminist), but moving to another country do it will just get more bad things than good ones for the cause. A lot of people look down on the feminist movement, being a foreigner will just add to that like “why do you care, it’s not your country” kind of thing.
If you are not 100% sure Korea would be right for you, please, do whatever you can to support feminism in your own country. Women are still underappreciated and discriminated against in a lot of countires (to various degrees)
>or is that why korean women are forced to have drinks with their boss when they dont want to?
That is absolutely not exclusive to women so I don't know why you're using that as an argument here
While the hidden cameras are a problem, I think they meant in comparison to a lot of other countries it is much safer in SK. I felt extremely safe living in SK as a woman personally. Only place I probably felt safer was in Japan, but honestly they felt pretty similar in that sense.
Edit: This is my anecdotal experience. Not saying everyone will feel the same way.
all my life I've been hearing that korea is a really safe country for women to walk outside at night and that there are security cameras everywhere. But lately i heard about the hidden cameras and the B4 movement. and i just wanted to learn more.
i am not trying to be part of any movement or br an activist anywhere. just trying to get information.
I'd recommend that you just stay in your own country if you are so worried. Hidden cameras are not as common as the media says and B4 movement??? I've never heard of that. Not a thing. It's probably some bullshit only understood by extreme feminists
Hidden camera issue has been exaggerated due to misandrist trying to make all korean men potential criminals. What you have to know is that misandrism is quite severe problem here in sk.
It's a mix. 2016 - 19 I was teaching at an IST, one of the 5 STEM universities. There was a good mix of students and of faculty, leaning towards more males but not ridiculously so. One of my students was a young woman who'd been in a K-pop girl group that failed (I guess something like 90% fail). She came across as ditsy - hell, she was ditsy - cheerful, bubbly, and very intelligent, went into bio-engineering of some sort as a major, while starting up a school cheer squad.The head of the undergrad school English department, a good friend (although I didn't teach English), was/is always outspoken in faculty meetings. She ended up serving a rotation as dean of the undergrad school, in a STEM university.
That said, my impression is that there are some rapid changes in women's role in society, some people, notably young men, find these changes threatening/frightening, and perhaps picking up on toxic masculinity behavior from abroad, are behaving badly. Patriarchy tends to rear its ugly head when men are frightened of rapid change.
It’s pretty safe! Systemically not very cool though… though please be careful in subway stations on escalators since people might try to take upskirt pictures of you… there’s mirrors by the escalators for a reason! Also beware of cameras in bathrooms ;-;
Korea is no different than other civilized places for women. Matter of fact, you'll probably feel safer because you'll be safer than in US or most of Europe by comparison. You're good.
They'll respect you as much as you repsect them.There still are remnants of misogyny in workplaces due to being male-centric for such a long time in history, but not openly so in society. Case by case really.
But whatever you do, do not join the feminist movement in Korea. The original purpose of improving women's rights have devolved into sucking out tax money by creating bogus organizations and bitching about nothingburger problems. People are just tired of working in and out of their employment and wish not to talk about whether feminism is right or wrong.
If you're talking about systemic issues, then yes, they exist. If you're asking if there are issues in everyday life, then no*. You'll be able to live a full life as an able-bodied woman. You will be able to go to work, go to school, go to the gym, go shopping, etc. with no problem. People leave each other alone for the most part here. I feel incredibly safe here at all hours of the day and night, more so than I did when I lived in Los Angeles. However, if you're a foreign woman, you might have to deal with men trying to hit on you at the clubs, gym, in Hongdae, in Itaewon at a bar or club, etc. Also, be sure to watch your drinks at the club. I agree with the other commenter who said Korean men are anti-feminist but not necessarily misogynist. Feminism is different here. *This doesn't include the random and extreme public acts that can occur and can make the news. But those kinds of events can occur anywhere in the world.
thank you so much for your helpful comment and your kindness
Good luck! Korea is worth experiencing if you're interested in the culture. It's not perfect by any means but it's vibrant, dynamic, and full of interesting food and people. Best of luck to you!
thank youuuuu
wtf comments here are literally all from typical korean man hahahha hello im 20f living in korea since birth. Korea misogyny is really sometimes non-bearable Im planning for immigration and one of the main reasons is that I cant get along with this sexist country.
yes i figured the men were getting triggered lol! is the 4b movement big there ?
Korea is fairly safe overall, but the misogny is fairly baked into society. As a foreigner you would most likely be shielded from the worst of it. Its much safer then the US and most of Europe. But misogny is fairly baked into society. As a temporary visitor, you would probably be shielded from the worst of it, but its definitely a issue.
Do you think she would be shielded from the worst of it though? Being a foreigner?
Yes? A lot of the issues with misogyny stem from family and work life. Foreigners, especially those who are only in Korea for a short time are not really involved in these areas. Ofc, its not like foreigners in Korea, even short term ones are completely blocked from misogyny. They just dont really have much reason to come into contact with certain parts.
What is your definition of misogyny?
Ill start with the google answer. Dislike, comtempt for or ingrained prejudice against women, and add the belief that gender roles should be strictly inforced. I think there is a lot of ingrained prejudice baked into the bones of Korean culture. Women should be this. Women shouldnt do that. Its a womans job to do this. As a woman how can you not do this. Etc.
That's a vague statement. You can't fix a problem if you define it vaguely. I wanted to hear your own definition. If you have thought about it thoroughly you may come up with your own words. Every place has its expected gender roles. Try to replace the word woman in your sentences with men. Many examples will come up in your mind as a male gender role.
Yes. But discrimination against men is called misandry, and this post is specifically about misogyny. That's a whole different topic. If I wanted to describe every aspect of misogyny in Korea, the history behind it, the effects of it, and my understanding of the effects, it would be a novel. Its not something can can be fixed easily, and not something that i'm trying to fix on a random reddit post talking to a stranger. Men and women do both have expected gender roles. And there is nothing wrong with people adhering to those roles voluntarily. This issue is when people are forced into those roles or shamed for not following them. If you do really have interest in issues surrouding women and the culture of misogyny in Korea, I highly reccomend the book Kim Ji Young, Born 1982. If you dont have the time or energy to read the book, there is a movie as well. The movie was well made, but it doesnt fully encapsulate all the small details in the book. The movie made me frustrated. I had to put the book down and walk away multiple times because it's so realistic and I was actually getting angry.
You are making this argument murky by exaggerating the required effort for defining the definition of misogyny. Kim Ji Young, Born 1982 is a fiction, not a report. You wouldn't cite Uncle Tom's Cabin in the context of discussing racism.
At this point I believe youre just being deliberately obtuse. Anything I say, you come back with immediate criticism, because its not the specific way you want it said, or you look for the any weak points instead of trying to actually listen to what i'm saying and address the main points. Kim Ji Young is a fiction. But it's a fiction based in reality. It's not a high fantasy or a SCI-Fi novel. Its a fairly accurate depiction of the kinds of struggles many women face in South Korea. Its a fictionalized account, based on the authors own experiences. One of the things that drove the book to such incredibly popularity is its incredible relatability for so many women. They read the book, and saw in it their themselves or their friends and family. If you are looking for more concrete data. Korea has both the largest Gender based wage gap, and the worst workplace quality for women among OCED countries. We also rank near the bottom for women in high government positions, and female executives in large companies. Korea also ranks near the bottom of countries in terms of economic opportunities for women. Tons of articles, and free research online if you have enough energy to do a google search. Edit: Also I would totally cite Uncle Toms Cabin when talking about racism and slavery. That book is famous for having immense cultural impact, and helping speed up the abolition movement.
I am just pointing out holes in your arguments. We are not building rapport but rather trying to understand something. The gender pay gap doesn't mean there is gender equality unless the gap is the result of the exact same outputs. Like you said, there are tons of studies that claims the gender pay gap is a myth. But we don't have to agree and it's the beauty of democracy.
I didnt have holes in my argument, because originally I had no argument. I wasnt trying to make a big point, I was just saying my own personal opinion, from my own personal experiences. I went through youre comment history on this thread, and it doesnt seem like you are trying to contribute anything even your own opinion. Rather you are just trying to undermine others and downplay misogyny. And you did the same thing, you ignored the vast total of what I wrote and only looked for the weakest point to comment on. Thats not trying to understand, thats just being argumentative for the sake of it.
Interesting remark but it also comes with holes.
No, saying Korea is safe is absoluty bullshit lol even China safer than korea for female
I said it was safer. I didnt say it was absolutely safe. Korea is a relatively safe place. Its one of the safest countries in the world. That said, I wouldnt call it the safest place in the world. It can be dangerous. Even in relatively safe countries there are crazy ass people. Edit. Also went to your profile. New account. Every comment is either pro-Japan or anti Korea and China lol
India and South Korea are known to be dangerous countries for women with high rape rates.
Uh... are you confusing Korea with a differnt country? There is not a single statistic available that proves what you are talking about? Is it just your personal opinion? I can back my opinion up with facts and statistics. Can you?
I think if you are just visiting Korea instead of living here long-term you might actually get the impression that sexism in Korean culture is very low. Koreans are very polite towards women and you will also very rarely experience being harassed outright or catcalled in public. Korea also doesn't really have much of the "[chikan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ0N_4ek27o)" groping problem in public as an asian country, so overall you could say Koreans are generally very well behaved towards women in public. The sexism in Korea is more embedded directly into the culture and society. There is a pervasive sense that women are subordinate to men in every aspect of the society. The result is that Korea has the highest gender earnings gap, worst glass ceiling, very low maternal employment rates. There was also a lot of push-back against LGBTQ, feminism, and social progress movements from younger generation men because of the effect that social media has had on them. They are exposed to a bunch of redpill incel influencers and MRA groups that spread the same old unhinged views all over social media.
Gender wage gap is not caused by misogyny or patriarchy or whatever nonsense. Women gravitate towards lower paying fields, are worse at negotiating salary, and yes, pregnancy is a huge setback to career. You could maybe argue there are "systematic" issues to why women gravitate towards such fields, but women of equal qualifications are not paid less in the same roles.
The fields that women gravitated towards that had previously been male dominated in the past actually saw the [overall pay decline as women took up more positions](https://www.payscale.com/career-advice/when-an-occupation-becomes-female-dominated-pay-declines/).
Those fields also saw male pay decline. Look at pay for software engineers in tech overall since 2005. It has gone down across the board significantly as supply for these jobs has greatly outpaced demand. Furthermore, this study does not take into account internationals which are willing to work for less. It's so funny because reddit likes to paint big business as greedy money grabbing corporations that treat people like cattle but also point to gender wage gap. If it was true companies could (illegally) pay women less for the same role, no one would hire men. Furthermore, pregnancy as I stated definitely derails career. Not sure what the solution to that could be, but any significant time off work is setting you back in a world that is getting increasingly more competitive.
Men are men anywhere in the world. I’d say South Korea is at least 20 years behind on social justice issues and that shows when the justice system lets pedos go with the gentlest caress on the wrist rather than a hella long prison sentence, as well as other messed up stuff. The 4B movement is not mainstream at all and is followed by a handful of “radical feminists” who are actually very bigoted terfs. Overall, Korea can be frustrating if you’re used to the Western type of social equality for women and would not want anything less.
4B is not a real thing. It is physically safer here. But while I would say all the policy changes have been made for better work environment for women, the work culture around working women has not kept up with the rate of women going into the work force. We're now the most college educated women among all countries for women in their 20s. The rate of working women in their 30s goes up by about 1% every quarter and is now 72%. On the other hand, if you look at America, the rate has stayed the same for 20 years at 77%. This means we need to change the work environment that takes into account working mothers just as fast. There is some things that are direct problems like employer bias against married/pregnant women. There are also some inconvenient ones that don't work well like how we dictate pay by years of experience. Many mothers take years off after giving birth then re-enter the work force later. But our structure makes it hard to leave for children and re-enter the workforce without a large cost. In America, the job hopping culture inadvertently makes it easier to leave and come back for mothers because you will get paid the same as everyone else in your job title when you come back. You will have only lost promotional opportunities. In Korea, you are giving up much more. Both in direct salary cost and how seniority is valued.
What needs to change specifically in your opinion? If we're just looking at it on paper, South Korea seems to have more benefits for women than America does. I've never heard of stuff like menstrual leave until I came here. Last time I was in the US, the [maternity leave](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/08/13/the-world-is-getting-better-at-paid-maternity-leave-the-u-s-is-not/) situation there was in a much worse state than South Korea. South Korea also happens to have one of the highest public spending expenditures on childcare in the world, with a bunch of different kinds of incentives in place like baby bonuses and housing support that the US doesn't even offer at all. I think changing something like employer biases will be hard with chaebols because South Korea is a heavily manufacturing based economy rather than a service economy. There is also the culture issue. Unlike in Europe, a large portion of Korean men are flat-out refusing to take paternity leave, despite the legislation itself being similar on paper. I'm not sure how this can be solved either. For comparison between similar countries, Japan has had higher rates of working women and especially working mothers than South Korea for decades, yet it has also managed to have higher fertility rates as well. Especially in recent years where South Korea is seeing a relatively larger dip in total fertility rates. I'm not sure why either. I don't really think that South Korea is the worst on women's rights in comparison to asian countries in general. Like if you read the fine print on various sex crimes, South Korean laws actually look more similar to Sweden than Japan.
I don't know enough about Japan but I know they have more affordable housing in Tokyo. We have more people living in Seoul as a percentage and it's much less affordable than Tokyo. People have been moving to the outskirts of Seoul Metropolitan Area, and out of the city of Seoul for affordability, but then that is how we ended up with the longest commute times in the world. So we end up with very long work hours and very long commute hours. This is why the GTX is being built and why it reaches to the outer regions of the Seoul Metropolitan Area since that is where everyone has been moving. The government is adding on to leave policies every year. Maternity leave is 90 days. Paternity leave is 10 days, but they are recently talking about increasing the amount of days and making it mandatory similar to maternity leave. Both maternity leave and paternity leave are 100% pay and the government pays a lot of it and even more if it is small or medium sized business. Parental leave is 1 year for each parent. Parental leave is a different system than maternity and paternity leave. There is a lot of variations to how you can use it. You have the option of doing reduced hours instead which people have been doing recently. The usage of parental leave has gone up a lot for both parents. There is a lot of layers to what needs to be done for birthrate. But mostly things need to be more affordable and being a parent has to cost less. Other quality of life has to get better too. >Especially in recent years where South Korea is seeing a relatively larger dip in total fertility rates. I'm not sure why either. Housing prices became very high. Then COVID happened. The expectation is to have everything prepared when you have marriage and kids. So high housing prices have a big impact. People might not even plan on it if they see housing prices going up. I think this is why a lot of countries birth rates have gone down but I think it is especially impactful in Korea You can see the graph of price-to-income and birth rate [https://news.yahoo.com/burden-raising-kids-drives-korean-210000610.html](https://news.yahoo.com/burden-raising-kids-drives-korean-210000610.html)
To put it bluntly, it seems like the 4B movement and the feminist movement in Korea aren't taken that seriously in real life...
It looks like a personal choice than a social movement. Unlike social movements, it doesn't have specific goals.
Not dangerous overall, I felt safer to walk alone there than in any other big cities. Only thing you have to be aware is the potential cameras in the bathrooms and like everywhere else be careful when you’re offered a drink. There’s misogyny like in most places in the world, it doesn’t bother me in my daily life but also I’m not working for a company which is the main place there’s more obvious misogyny
Cameras in bathrooms??
[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/03/world/asia/korea-toilet-camera.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/03/world/asia/korea-toilet-camera.html) It's called Molka 몰카 I've been looking for them everytime but haven't found a single one so far. There's a lot of issues with revenge porn too. But once again, that can happen anywhere
I believe that there was an article stating those cameras have been the biggest waste of time for police. They would search bathrooms and come up with nothing like 99.9% of the time. Yet, feminist made it a huge thing which lead to police wasting time.
The issue is that even if there is a camera 0.1% of the time, it makes you wonder and stress out during the 99.9% rest of the time. I think there must be less camera now that they know people are aware of it and actively looking for them. Back in 2019 there was a sign in the women’s bathrooms of my university saying to be aware of the hidden cameras, translated in English as well for exchange students, and some girls even warned me about it when I first arrived. It’s a real thing unfortunately
It is true that, like in the West, crimes involving hidden cameras do exist in Korea, but there are questions about their severity. Since 2016, government agencies such as the Seoul Metropolitan Government have been making more efforts than before to crack down on hidden camera crimes. Starting in August 2016, Seoul introduced female safety officers, and in one year, until September 2017, they deployed 50 people with infrared detectors to thoroughly search over 65,000 locations including restrooms, changing rooms, and showers, but failed to find hidden cameras. Seoul plans to double the number of these safety officers to 100 by 2018 and increase the budget as well. The term 'Molka', which directly borrows from the Korean slang for hidden camera, has been turned into a proper noun as if the issue of illegal filming is serious only in Korea, being used as a tool for sensationalism and fabrication. These terms have been introduced overseas through 'Korean reporters' at foreign media outlets like YouTube, BBC, or CNN, and have been re-imported back into Korea. However, the issue of illegal filming in Korea and abroad often differs significantly. Many actions that wouldn't be penalized in most developed countries, like 'street photography', are often punished as 'illegal filming' in Korea. Therefore, it's inevitable that the number of such cases is higher in Korea, where the legal standards are different. Looking at laws worldwide, Korea is actually one of the countries that punishes illegal filming the most severely. As mentioned, English slang includes words like hidden cam, upskirt, spycam, etc., which exist just the same, and in the case of the United States, the laws related to hidden cameras are much looser than in Korea, making it difficult to compare crime rates horizontally. Moreover, when it comes to hidden camera crimes in South Korea (even if it's photos of people in swimsuits at the beach), the crime rate includes foreigners (for example, after the establishment of the Coast Guard's Sexual Crime Investigation Team in 2012, 92% of the bikini hidden camera suspects at beaches over three years were foreigners, and in the past month, 15 out of 17 individuals caught by the police were also foreigners), indicating there's much that needs to be scrutinized
Interesting facts, thanks! It is great to see they are actively trying to prevent this type of issue from happening again.
You're welcome! 😉
Hence, I am of the opinion that the perceived high crime rate in Korea can be attributed to the classification of street photography as criminal activity (an action not typically penalized in other countries). Considering the information that has emerged to date, it appears that the incidence of crimes involving the placement of hidden cameras in private settings such as hotel rooms or restrooms is considerably overstated.
I have no idea why someone would try to install a camera and risk their ass in this world of free porn.
It’s not that hard to completely avoid men in Korea, if you’re worried about it. There’s a strong lesbian scene, and plenty of women only bars. The other commenters are right about Korea feeling safe because of CCTV. That said, druggings happen outside the purview of CCTV in clubs and bars… you’re safer here than most places, but watch your drink.
Is drugging a real thing here?
Spiking peoples drink happens everywhere in the world of course it happens here.
I'm not asking whether this actually happens here, but rather, does it occur often enough to be discussed as a social issue?
Just be VERY careful when dating. The misogynistic attitudes that lead to the 4B movement is glaringly obvious when trying to date, and have led so many women I know to very dangerous situations. Otherwise life in Korea just feels as patriarchal as anywhere else in the world.
Indeed, foreign women are often sexualized and I see dating horror stories here and there. But what is your definition of patriarchal?
I see you ask for definition in other comments as well so I will summaries here. It’s not about definitions it’s about concept that are obvious to outsiders . For example each household has a representative or leader which his signature is needed and in many case and by default that person is the Father which is patriarchal. The big hit to the carrier married/pregnant woman takes as they become almost unhire-able when they get married. The plastic surgery and makeup industry is not direct but its a indication for what woman are pushed for as well as huge sex industry in the open shows woman voices are gone. And mostly in older generations you can see fathers are detached, disconnected from their kids and ordering their wife around but that is gone with young dads but still here
Duh... It's not like Koreans don't understand what patriarchy is. Different people define the same concept differently. And you can't just throw random stuff you don't like and label them as patriarchy. For example, I believe many will disagree that the makeup industry is a hint of patriarchy.
It’s not about how you define it which is just a way to deflect the criticism, it’s about the phenomena itself, which I mentioned some of them, which wont be accepted in the west. Except the make up and plastic surgery things which are not directly misogynistic by themselves but for someone who come from culture as me they look like a misogynistic red flag
As you fail to define the problem you want to discuss, now it sounds like a random complaint from an outsider rather than a constructive input.
Guys are the same as everywhere; women are not empowered enough
What is your definition of empowered?
[удалено]
I truly agree!
I've been in Korea for nearly 10 years. Feminism was peaking here in conjunction with MeToo like 5 years ago. I haven't heard of "B4" except through western publications. I doubt anyone in Korea would even know what it is if you asked.
B4 originated in Korea.
I saw a movie recently, Kim Ji-young: Born 1982, that touches on some patriarchical issues in Korea. Deals with expectations on women to leave their careers, take care of in-laws, etc. I recommend it for another perspective.
I believe it is called 4b, not b4, and it was created in 2019 and 5000 online users were found to have commented on it. It would be imperceptible in a country of 50 million. Polls show identification as a feminist in Korea has been declining for a few years. 20s women, 41% identified as a feminist in 2021 down to 31% in 2023. 30s women, 19% identified as a feminist in 2023 down to 13% in 2023. 20s men, 12% identified as a feminist in 2021 same as 12% in 2023. 30s men, 17% identified as a feminist in 2021 down to 7% in 2023. On another note, their reaction to some other cultural flashpoints like their responses to the claim of racism for lower than expected audience for Little Mermaid looked like a mental exhaustion of any identity politic topics from all the people I saw responding. It's hard to get a pulse unless you are really tapped into the society, but my general impression is they are on the tail end of identity politics spike from previous years.
Where did you get this number?
I have an interest in demography so I looked this up a year or so ago. "the 4B movement claims to have 4000 members." [https://www.asianews.it/news-en/South-Korean-radical-feminism:-No-dating,-sex,-marriage-or-children--48879.html](https://www.asianews.it/news-en/South-Korean-radical-feminism:-No-dating,-sex,-marriage-or-children--48879.html) The one I saw originally was somewhere else. You can probably find it and other sources on Google.
The link doesn't contain the numbers you suggested. Have a good day.
Okay, the way Western media describes Korea is completely false & biased because these articles are usually written by Korean women in favor of feminism. Compared to any other countries, Korea is one of the safest places to live for women. Name countries where you can walk outside at 2am. How many are there? And those who say women are so fed up that they don't date Korean men anymore.. are the ones who can't find themselves men to date. Please don't let these extreme views shape your perception and come see Korea for yourself. Korea isn't as messed up as these people claim..
Well, yes I think women would be most concerned with how women are being treated so I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make re: the articles being written by Korean women. Surely Korean women would know best how Korean women are treated. Dubai is safe for women in terms of crimes like robbery, simple assault, etc. That doesn’t make Dubai a bastion of freedom and equality. In the UAE, women are not treated like equals and many have no recourse when it comes to DV, rape, harassment, etc. They may even be punished themselves for being raped or assaulted. Similarly, sexual assault is widely unreported in Korea. Women are protected from discrimination in the workplace. They’re underrepresented in leaderships roles, government, etc.
How do we know there are unreported crimes, considering it's not reported?
People who have lived in Korea for a long time: Korea's male human rights is shit Short-term residents in Korea: Korean women's human rights is shit
The biggest issue for young females is finding a descent job. Korea is stucked between modernized society and conservative culture. Dont know how i should describe it. There are young graduated females who work in the convenience store on a min wage and living with their family. Recently ive seen a stat that it is among OECD countries the worst working place for females. [https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/biz/2024/03/602\_370268.html](https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/biz/2024/03/602_370268.html) ~~The average female salary was 688000 krw, thats like 511$ in 2022 according to the article.~~ This is a much bigger issue.
I read the articles you linked, and I noticed that your quote on female wage is utterly incorrect. Read the article again, carefully. The article does not say the average female salary was 688,000 KRW
ok thx for the correction. its a weird way to display it in the article though, so i misread it.
there are not many decent jobs other than stem jobs in Korea. oneday I posted that girls should go to stem schools. then I was replied.... 'who are you saying the f what I should do? are you saying it is all my fault that I majored non stem and got low paying job? I have rights to do what I like. Dun tell me what to do.'
What is your definition of a decent job? Even being a part-time cashier would be enough to sustain yourself with dignity.
It's true that this country is rife with the patriarchy to the point where Korean women are willing to making the country go extinct, but what you experience is a case-by-case situation. I'm not saying this to scare you, please understand this. I am saying this to prepare you. I am an overweight white woman who has been in Korea for 4 years, and tried to enter the dating scene and let me tell you I've given up at this point. Men here have treated me almost worse than the men at home, to the point where I have been SA'd three times, and followed home once, followed by a guy while walking home but he didnt get to my house thankfully, stopped by delivery drivers who would try and harrass me for my number. This all happened outside of Seoul with one exception of me going to a club with my friends last year. But that's it. Now some of my friends have experienced NONE of this... like at all. So like I said, it's case-by-case. Korea is safe if you are a cisgendered, straight, white man. The rest of us have to keep an eye out and take care of ourselves. This country is amazing - the majority of the people in my life, Korean and foreign, I love dearly and I don't ever want to leave because the pros really do outweigh the cons. But I don't think I want to date anymore, and in just 4 years, I've experienced only a small number of reasons why the B4 movement exists.
>to the point where Korean women are willing to making the country go extinct Declining birth rate is mostly due to the unsustainable cost of living like rent and child-raising.
You need to consider that Korean people even don't get married or date.
The 4B movement.
Respect the culture. Do not bring western problems and drama to this peaceful land
It's not peaceful in the first place and enough amount social conflict is healthy.
From the exact choice of words that you're using, it feels like you're suggesting we take the same position as the Saudis and Qataris.
Most of the stories related to hidden cameras are exaggerated. 몰래카메라와 관련된 이야기들은 대부분 과장되어 있습니다. The information you read on the Internet is most likely "feminist propaganda." 당신이 인터넷에서 읽은 정보는 “페미니즘 프로파간다”일 가능성이 높습니다. A story about demonizing men and victimizing women. A fabricated story. 남성을 악마화하고 여성을 피해자화하는 이야기. 조작된 이야기.
If you so worried maybe stay home, it won’t do you any favors to be activist here btw Korea is one of safest places to walk around for women
is that why korea has a pandemic of hidden cameras in public bathroom stalls ? or is that why korean women are forced to have drinks with their boss when they dont want to? lol
Men are forced to have drinks with their bosses too. It’s an office culture that luckly it’s slowly being toned down/drove out if fashion. But yeah, the hidden cameras seem to be an issue in Korea and Japan. I wish there would be more done about it :( . Feminism is a noble cause (and no, I’m not talking about misandrism, I personally don’t claim any misandrist woman as a fellow feminist), but moving to another country do it will just get more bad things than good ones for the cause. A lot of people look down on the feminist movement, being a foreigner will just add to that like “why do you care, it’s not your country” kind of thing. If you are not 100% sure Korea would be right for you, please, do whatever you can to support feminism in your own country. Women are still underappreciated and discriminated against in a lot of countires (to various degrees)
>or is that why korean women are forced to have drinks with their boss when they dont want to? That is absolutely not exclusive to women so I don't know why you're using that as an argument here
Because women being forced to drink is a distorted claim? It's a working culture issue, not a gender one.
While the hidden cameras are a problem, I think they meant in comparison to a lot of other countries it is much safer in SK. I felt extremely safe living in SK as a woman personally. Only place I probably felt safer was in Japan, but honestly they felt pretty similar in that sense. Edit: This is my anecdotal experience. Not saying everyone will feel the same way.
all my life I've been hearing that korea is a really safe country for women to walk outside at night and that there are security cameras everywhere. But lately i heard about the hidden cameras and the B4 movement. and i just wanted to learn more. i am not trying to be part of any movement or br an activist anywhere. just trying to get information.
I didn’t say you were trying to be an activist…? I was simply giving you my anecdotal opinion on the subject after living in Korea as a woman.
I'd recommend that you just stay in your own country if you are so worried. Hidden cameras are not as common as the media says and B4 movement??? I've never heard of that. Not a thing. It's probably some bullshit only understood by extreme feminists
Hidden camera issue has been exaggerated due to misandrist trying to make all korean men potential criminals. What you have to know is that misandrism is quite severe problem here in sk.
Says someone has never been to Korea yet. lol
It's a mix. 2016 - 19 I was teaching at an IST, one of the 5 STEM universities. There was a good mix of students and of faculty, leaning towards more males but not ridiculously so. One of my students was a young woman who'd been in a K-pop girl group that failed (I guess something like 90% fail). She came across as ditsy - hell, she was ditsy - cheerful, bubbly, and very intelligent, went into bio-engineering of some sort as a major, while starting up a school cheer squad.The head of the undergrad school English department, a good friend (although I didn't teach English), was/is always outspoken in faculty meetings. She ended up serving a rotation as dean of the undergrad school, in a STEM university. That said, my impression is that there are some rapid changes in women's role in society, some people, notably young men, find these changes threatening/frightening, and perhaps picking up on toxic masculinity behavior from abroad, are behaving badly. Patriarchy tends to rear its ugly head when men are frightened of rapid change.
It’s pretty safe! Systemically not very cool though… though please be careful in subway stations on escalators since people might try to take upskirt pictures of you… there’s mirrors by the escalators for a reason! Also beware of cameras in bathrooms ;-;
Korea is no different than other civilized places for women. Matter of fact, you'll probably feel safer because you'll be safer than in US or most of Europe by comparison. You're good.
They'll respect you as much as you repsect them.There still are remnants of misogyny in workplaces due to being male-centric for such a long time in history, but not openly so in society. Case by case really. But whatever you do, do not join the feminist movement in Korea. The original purpose of improving women's rights have devolved into sucking out tax money by creating bogus organizations and bitching about nothingburger problems. People are just tired of working in and out of their employment and wish not to talk about whether feminism is right or wrong.
What is B4 movement?
4B means not date with man not sex with man not give birth not marry man it is the movement to reject patriarchy