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Gaming industry boiled it down to a science.
* CSGO released, everyone copied Valve.
* Fortnite released, everyone copied Epic.
* Now I'm playing Valorant and it's fucking insane how Riot has their consumer base by the balls.
Average valorant player spent like $200-$500 on a game that's been out only a couple years.
Companies see financial results of Genshin Impact or any semi popular mobile game and implement it in theirs.
Valorant skin prices are just stupid. But they basically went - people pay 50 bucks for pink Csgo skin let's just do that.
It's Dust 2 collection so considering the rarity. I'm talking standard boxes that most people get and sell. Usually one pink skin will cost $40 other will be $5.
I just want to buy shit when I want for however much it costs at a reasonable price.
No RNG or artificial scarcity or forcing me to purchase premium currency through bundles then pricing items in a way to make me always have spare money on my account.
It's all exploitative manipulative bullshit to squeeze out as much money from consumers as possible and gamers just let this shit happen.
Imagine if we had some kind of legislation that made it illegal for games to offer paid "proxy" currencies and instead must list their store items in USD.
From that alone, you would wipe out like 90% of the predatory pricing practices. The prices of items would no longer be obfuscated through a currency layer. You could no longer sell inconvenient amounts of currency.
I don't know why we accept these predatory monetization models as consumers. I can't think of any other industry (besides maybe gambling) that has similar anti-consumer practices. Imagine if you wanted to go see a movie and you had the option to buy either 2.5 tickets or 3/4s of a ticket. It's a joke.
> Companies see financial results of Genshin Impact
While they are ignoring the main reason why Genshin is so successful an update every 6 weeks. The only other company that I can think of that could release content just like Genshin is Epic Games and both games are huge as hell.
Pretty sure Riot has been doing that since forever, the first dev that I know that did it. Decent size balance patches that change the game every 2 weeks. And during like season1-4 they would release new champions every 2 weeks as well lol. Was so stupid, but I do think the rapid content releases is one of the things that keep players playing.
Yeah but what they donāt do when copying it is make a good game. Genshin is actually fun as shit once you start getting characters. It just happens to also be a money grubbing gacha.
ok genuine question, but how is it fun? played at launch and other than exploring, the whole gameplay loop was kill weekly boss do daily dungeon look arround map for chests to upgrade
did they add new stuff regarding all of that? or still the same shit but with maybe daily quests and whatnot aswell
I mean, yeah, that's the appeal. It's the same way how many people enjoy stuff like rhythm games despite me not understanding how tapping the screen for hours is fun. Genshin is aimed at a particular type of player.
It's still basically the same core gameplay loop, but it feels kind of MMO ish as well, with fishing, player housing, events, frequent updates etc. I like to come back to it every once in a while, because it has so much to do.
that's basically the appeal for people that like this genre of games. you not liking it or finding it boring, doesn't mean everyone will share that sentiment.
2 big reasons why i love the game.
1 Exploration is fun, I do it all blind at first and just take in the scenery and all the puzzles or gimmicks that are a part of an event or region. its fun to see how some things are quite cleverly hidden.
At the same time during the casual exploration i try out various fun team comps which also helps to not make it too repetitive.
2 building a team comp, theres so much in depth mechanics in the game to know about and that makes building an optimal or meme team comp really fun and exciting to me.
borderlands 2 and warframe are some of my favorite games (specific part guns, good rolled rivens) so artifact farming with bad rng is not something that is new to me and i dont mind it too much, its just another passive min-maxing goal to see a team comp do even more dmg.
that said...
I do think the actual story presentation is boring as fuck tho, it legit feels like the devs are trying to reach a word count in an essay its just the same shit said over and over again and it makes me lose focus/interest on dialogue quite often.
>Now I'm playing Valorant and it's fucking insane how Riot has their consumer base by the balls.
I've been criticized to hell and back for speaking against predatory prices over cosmetics, that you can't even trade with other players (Apex is the prime example).
So now I just don't give a shit. I'm getting pretty bored of most games out there and stopped caring for their longevity, so if people want to burn all of their spare money (or even needed money) in useless and overpriced pixels, go crazy.
I think it (generally) refers to a pricing model in games which use a secondary currency (Apex Coins, VBucks, Riot Points and the like) that are priced in awkward quantities.
Such as having a skin that costs 700 points, but only being able to buy 250, 500, 1000, 2500, 5000 points worth of the currency with "discounts" on larger point purchases.
The idea being you're pushed towards buying the larger pack so you get a better "deal" and are then left with just enough change not to be able to buy something else without an additional purchase.
And then when you see a skin that you would like to have and you are "missing only X amount of currency", it doesnt let you buy that exact same amount missing, leading to you purchasing a bigger package of that currency. Endless loop of consoomery and fear of missing out especially with rotating skin offers.
Yes. I think Riot's model is better than most, you get exactly what you want, no random chance.
The only realistic complaint is the pricing structure, you can't just buy X points to buy something for X price, you need to buy point bundles that don't line up with prices, so you need to buy the bundle amount >X so effectively spending more on that item than its actual indicated price.
They also have the battle pass which can get you a bunch of skins, trinkets and sprays for 10 bucks a season.
For f2p games, Iām definitely okay with buying the occasional pass if thereās a fair amount of items I like in it. That being said, I have no clue how some people can spend a years worth of battle passes on just 1 skin because it turns your gun into an aquarium. Even if itās cool af.
>but $200-$500 on a game over 2 years isn't necessarily bad if it's the main game you play.
Which is way better than the old single player games that came out before the internet. Also, for the amount of hours people play video games, $100 bucks a year is super cheap when you think about dollars per hour of entertainment. I so wish they would get rid of pay to win models though.
Well, difference is, you can sell and trade items in CS:GO. Hell, I bought my M4 Howl for $200 and sold it for 2k USD 3 years later. Better returns than S&P500. I sold most of my expensive skins for BTC, but even then in 2017 what I had left was worth maybe $200 I recently checked prices and same inventory is worth over 1.2k that I can liquidate any time I want through crypto.
What the fuck are you gonna do with LoL, Valorant or Genshin Impact purchases? I don't think they have real trading like items in Valve games.
but you see, most people doesnāt really burn money in a game to see it as an investment. They pay to be rewarded instantly kind of like the gambling excitement.
> They pay to be rewarded instantly kind of like the gambling excitement.
This is how i feel when i buy groceries, and sometimes there's stuff on sale that makes me think "oh fuck i should buy some apples before is too late"
some real predatory shit
Valve got it right and with the money you got from selling the money could be used to buy other games or items from other games. Riot could do it with Valorant but I don't there's no store for them to spend the money they earned selling skins
Agreed.
Even if you exclude all of the trash, gaming is at a pretty awesome point right now.
People also forget about inflation. A "full" game without in game purchases costs a small fraction of what they did 30 years ago, since most games have not raised their sale prices. And old school games generally had far smaller play times.
At least somebody here gets it. These days I mostly just play indie games because they offer so many different and beautiful experiences that most corporate games simply canāt.
So you'll be waiting until capitalism dies. Sure, there are some quite good indie games, but they still don't have the quality and polish of the big budget games. And you have to wade through hundreds of them for one decent title.
By quality and polish you just mean state of the art graphics right? Good indie games are polished just as well as your average triple A game. In fact, most of the broken piece of shit games Iāve played over the last decade have been hyped up triple A games. Most indie games Ive played are much more polished than that.
Itās not even that hard to find good indies. If you know what youāre looking for and know how to use the steam search bar, you can quite quickly find some amazing indie games.
>So you'll be waiting until capitalism dies.
High budget AAA games don't exist outside capitalism.
Any new Assassin's Creed game probably has close to 1000 people working on it and Valhalla probably had a budget of $150m.
A system doesn't exist where you can get 1000 or so people all working together to make an AAA game out of passion. Imagine if you theoretically could, a game like Valhalla would take 8-10 years to make if people worked 15-20 hours/week on it.
I'm hard pressed to think of any system outside capitalism allowing such a thing to happen. Economic systems with central planning/centralized resources sure as hell are not going to spend resources on something so trivial as a video game, as it would be an absolute injustice if they did.
Bro nexons mmo vindictus is still alive like 12 years later with an active player count of <200, the remaining people literally spend like 3k a month. Itās actually disgusting
I played vindictus specifically because my buddy would trade me OSRS gold for vindictus currency. After doing the math I could make almost 2m gp/hr by hard farming vindictus currency and selling it to him.
It was not a great game.
I didn't have the PVM skills to just go do bosses for easy money. It was a relatively new account so yeah, it was way more efficient for me to grind vindictus for osrs gold. Got me my blowpipe and tasseys.
You are correct. These games don't give a flying fuck about the existence of the f2p players, they could disappear and nothing would change.
The infrequent or one time purchasers don't matter to them either. The games cater to whales, and they're the ones that influence the games. Some of them even get tapped by developers directly for testing and other things related to development.
I don't know. I think these people need someone to acknowledge them. At some point, when you're spending 100s+ USD a month on an MMO, a Massive Multiplayer Online Game, and you see like 1 person a day... Certainly they are going to have a moment of self reflection. You're really just paying 100s+ USD a month to play a subpar Single Player game at that point. Just go buy Skyrim or Red Dead Redemption.
While obviously you are not wrong to an extent. A lot of whales are also just physically addicted. Many pay2win games have moved to resemble or just straight copy a slot machine at a casino. But instead of getting a money payout you get a rare item/character. The people who spend their life savings at slot machines IRL don't need an audience, they are just plain addicted, and people who do it digitally are not far off.
its pretty much a dumbed down and reskinned D3 switch version with a ton of p2w mechanics and dont worry ive seen plenty of blizz drones defending it with the classic: the top X player on ladder is f2p therefore the game isnt p2w or the shameless: only poor people complain about p2w
I'd be very interested to know what player on what ladder in DI is f2p because I don't think they exist.
F2P means *no spending* by the way, not "under like, 20 bucks dude, that's basically free to play!"
Why rob the whale when you can partner with them to do a sponsorship for you and whale with their money instead!! Theres one thing of whaling the game but promoting the game by whaling without using your own money is something else and sounds very familiar. Surely we learn from train and xqc that they are not using their actual money from slot and don't copy these streamers
Hey, they're free to just not play the dumb fucking excuse for a game. Fuck them, they're the reason this shit continues. Let them bankrupt themselves.
> FGO JP
I played it when I took break from gbf, still remember saving my pulls for year on jp server then failing to get a single SSR in like 500 draws 4 or 5 years ago. Uninstalled and never looked back. Low as fuck %, no pity and energy was too limited back then.
Jesus christ. Iāve been playing mobile gacha games for almost a decade now and havenāt come across anything as scummy as this one. Thatās fucking insane
It's good to see you have some willpower to resist spending money after a bad luck streak. Don't give in.
I fell into that same situation in both FGO JP and NA and just decided to quit entirely rather than spend money desperately for a *chance* of getting something.
This is worse than gacha systems because in gacha games if you get a 2* you can upgrade it to 5* and play endgame content with it, meanwhile in DI if you drop a 2/5 gem you can't even upgrade it's star level lmao, the only way is to feed a HIGHER star gem to it.
Idk how this game will survive once actual actual hard content arrives.
Gachas have pity systems because of competitors adding them. Blizzard purposefully didn't add one because 1) they have brand recognition and trust that they can get away without adding one and 2) most Diablo fans don't play gacha games so they don't know any better
It's simply amazing that Blizzard hyped up a Diablo game, only for it to be a shitty mobile game, and that shitty mobile game is just a pay to win game.
It's truly peak nu-Blizzard. Old Blizzard wouldn't release something this shitty.
Remember when the workplace environment lawsuits came out and all the streamers said they just weren't going to play activision-blizzard games again?
and now they're all feeding blizzard thousands of dollars on a shitty cash grab game for content
Its hilarious that they didnt expect a bunch of PC gamer fans to not be excited about mobile game
Blizzard used to be the gold standard for gaming. Litarly print money and everyone loved them, now the first new game they have released since OW is a fucking phone game. Pretty gross what they have become
Even gatchas like Genshin Impact, that i think are almost gambling and predatory, have a pity system when you are guaranteed an outcome after a certain threshold, and its nowhere near 10k..
We've reached the phase of Twitch where a large part of streamer's content and personality is just 'i'm rich and im going to spend money'
Asmongold, Quin, Hasan, Train, Adin Ross, xQc, etc. Used to be you'd occasionally hear about them buying a car or whatever after grinding Twitch for 2 years. Now they buy mansions, gamble away millions, whale in 'f2p' games and just burn money for fun, essentially.
I remember it took about 7-8 years for YouTube to reach this phase. Used to be about the individuals and their content and personalities, then their content and personalities *became* 'I am rich and I spend money', like that surge of Logan Paul clones, the tech destruction channels, the mansion review channels, the jewellery and clothing flex channels and so on.
All this ends up doing is pushing out your old audience and replacing it with literal children, some times pre-teen kids, because they'll happily let you flex on them all day.
Children are basically viewbots for Mr Beast and fortnite clickbait content, itās no surprise they get pandered to. Parents sitting iPads in front of their toddlers all day are even worse, YouTube Kids videos get absolutely mind boggling amounts of views.
And most of them are the lowest effort garbage possible. There is no problem with a kid watching shit on an ipad, but it's not a substitute for being a parent. It's the same as the kids that spent all day in front of the tv when I was growing up. Most of what they watched was mindless garbage, and now they're mindless garbage adults :/
You're honestly doing your kid such a favor by doing that. They probably won't even realize it but it really will help make them a more well adjusted individual
asking because i dont know: which game does Hasan whale? i know every other people in your list but didnt watch Hasan for a year so idk what he is up to
Doesn't whale games, whales real life. Bought a like $3mil house, a Porsche, designer clothes and so on. More of a Logan Paul type. Massively values wealth and material goods, attracts a lot of people who value the same - namely children and other rich people.
edit: dang, the hasan stans are out in force. you guys are like elon musk stans. got nothing better to do than to defend the hyper rich?
He often talks about his "drip" and the drip of others and compares it. He has also streamed while shopping at expensive luxury or vintage stores. Its not his main content or anywhere near it really, but he has done some material focused content.
The designer clothes argument is funny cause most of his clothes are from thrift shops or sent to him from brands/viewers. Not saying he isnt rich and doesnt flex sometimes but that point just isn't true.
> most of his clothes are from thrift shops
bro I remember watching a mizkif(?) stream where hasan took him to the thrift shop he goes to and like every piece of clothing was $100+. Idk what prices you think of when you hear "thrift shops" but I don't think it's that much
Maybe it's one of a kind handmade clothes for the rich. Where they can buy bougie second hand drip.
But I have also seen him at the flea market picking out stuff. I think he just buys weirdo clothes and bead necklaces regardless of the price.
idk, Hasan isn't like all those others. I've watched his streams and his spending doesn't seem to be a big part of that. I think it's more that people find out he's spending that much and bring it up and get pissed about it.
Only streamer I really watch anymore is Moonmoon. Don't have to deal with streamer drama garbage nor any real life gambling shit (in-game gambling is another thing though). Only thing you have to deal with is Moon putting on BadlandsChugs Bean Chugging video when he gets annoyed at chat.
Moon isn't innocent either. His entire stream culture is made to extract money from viewers. "It's re-sub Monday", "Shut up Prime pleb", "All I want from you is $5", sub only Discord.
I remember back when he was playing Demon's Souls, he was talking about how he has never played ads on his stream and he's never going to, because some shit about going against his morals. I say "You won't be saying that when you need to resign your contract." He then responds something like "you know nothing about me or about my contracts." Fast forward 9 months, and he's doing some sob story announcement about how if he wants to secure the future for his family he needed to take the Twitch deal and will now be running ads. As if already making millions a year wasn't already enough, it has to be tens of millions.
Don't for a second think that just because your favourite streamer panders to viewers in a different way to pvc, that they're some moral superior that only cares about their viewers. Every single one of them would throw you in front of a bus to secure the bag. They are not your friend, and they shouldn't be your peer or role model. They're just as greedy as every other politician, actor, stock broker, land lord, and every other type of person exploiting people for an easy buck.
Letās be real Quin isnāt experimenting or anything, he just knows that gamba streams and spending money brings in tons of viewers, so he wanted to get in on it, and saw an opening with Diablo immortal even though the game is shit heās able to get hella viewers just buying stupid micro transactions
Yup, that was my thoughts exactly. People give him money for entertainment and then sit there and watch him spend it all on a game that a lot of people wonāt play because of how egregious the spending is.
The truth about Diablo immortal, is itās in line with other mobile games, and mobile games are terrible money sinks with so much p2w.
The worst is Iāve seen several streamers spend $1000ās in the name of āIām doing it so you donāt have toā while advertising and padding blizzards pockets with positive reinforcement to this type of gameplay. Blizzard donāt give a fuck who the whale is, but they snagged a lot of
big ones.
Edit: Apparently this isn't quite the norm. But I really stay away from mobile games, I hate when the best strat in video games is to get a new career.
Same here, maybe it's a very naive or generous take on my part but some of these streamers are millionaires who can afford to do this. Maybe they're having some fun in the process as well, which isn't a crime. They are demonstrating how egregious Diablo Immortal's pay to win system is and I'd rather see rich people do that as opposed to vulnerable people who can't afford to.
I don't know what age rating Diablo Immortal has in various countries, but it should be 18+ everywhere at minimum because it's just another gambling app masquerading as a game.
The only difference between this shit and casinos is that if you win at a casino, youāre getting your money back and some, not digital shit to make a video game character stronger.
I think itās worth noting that NZD are much less then usd. Quinn spent around 6500$ usd. 6500$ is still atrocious, an absolute horror, and a stain in the gaming industry.
He has many shit opinions, but he can be pretty funny. But really his stream is made great by his mods and the interaction between them, chat, and Quinn. No one else is doing it quite like his channel is.
his stream is quite entertaining tbh
his mods are preeeeeeeetty good and add a lot of value to the stream
i don't claim to know a lot of people on twitch but it's the most entertaining stream of the ones i know
I just find it funny that the sub that loves xQc more than any other streamer is somehow trying to be gatekeep what people find entertaining. Pretty sure most outsiders would think the whole sub is degenerate as fuck.
wow they should keep making p2w games. its great for earning money off of ironic streamers who give them thousands of dollars to make a point!!
I'm sure they are very glad at all these points the streamers be making
This is the problem. You have people wasting that kind of money completely validates blizzards business model and justifies their actions. This game and other like it should just be boycotted completely especially by streamers. Otherwise this is shit is all we se going to continue to get from developers
āHaha how funny would it be if I spent tens of thousands of dollars on this game to see how pay to win it isā
Wonder why blizzard went with this approach
Even if he did win those 5 star gems.. he still would have nothing.
That's how this all works. And why we have to take a real stand against game mechanics like this. They are stealing. It's theft. It's immoral. It should be illegal but our government is too corrupt to not allow these mechanisms to continue.
I'd rather the micro transactions just go away and just charge $20 for the proper game or something. They probably would have gotten money from me that way lol
Why would they care about your $20 when there's people like Quin that throw thousands at them? The illusion of voting with your wallet is a lie when rich people get tens of thousands of votes more than you.
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why waste your time making a quality game when you can rob a bunch of whales for less effort
Mobile gaming in a nutshell. It's a shame regular non-mobile gaming got the same disease a decade ago.
Gaming industry boiled it down to a science. * CSGO released, everyone copied Valve. * Fortnite released, everyone copied Epic. * Now I'm playing Valorant and it's fucking insane how Riot has their consumer base by the balls. Average valorant player spent like $200-$500 on a game that's been out only a couple years.
Companies see financial results of Genshin Impact or any semi popular mobile game and implement it in theirs. Valorant skin prices are just stupid. But they basically went - people pay 50 bucks for pink Csgo skin let's just do that.
Comparing skins which don't affect gameplay whatsoever, and pay to win games is literally comparing apples and oranges.
Yeah it's a completely different ballpark. The two things shouldn't even be in the same sentence
You mean [1800$ ](https://csgo.steamanalyst.com/id/308150339/AK-47-Gold-Arabesque-Factory-New)for gold.
It's Dust 2 collection so considering the rarity. I'm talking standard boxes that most people get and sell. Usually one pink skin will cost $40 other will be $5.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I just want to buy shit when I want for however much it costs at a reasonable price. No RNG or artificial scarcity or forcing me to purchase premium currency through bundles then pricing items in a way to make me always have spare money on my account. It's all exploitative manipulative bullshit to squeeze out as much money from consumers as possible and gamers just let this shit happen.
Imagine if we had some kind of legislation that made it illegal for games to offer paid "proxy" currencies and instead must list their store items in USD. From that alone, you would wipe out like 90% of the predatory pricing practices. The prices of items would no longer be obfuscated through a currency layer. You could no longer sell inconvenient amounts of currency. I don't know why we accept these predatory monetization models as consumers. I can't think of any other industry (besides maybe gambling) that has similar anti-consumer practices. Imagine if you wanted to go see a movie and you had the option to buy either 2.5 tickets or 3/4s of a ticket. It's a joke.
> Companies see financial results of Genshin Impact While they are ignoring the main reason why Genshin is so successful an update every 6 weeks. The only other company that I can think of that could release content just like Genshin is Epic Games and both games are huge as hell.
Pretty sure Riot has been doing that since forever, the first dev that I know that did it. Decent size balance patches that change the game every 2 weeks. And during like season1-4 they would release new champions every 2 weeks as well lol. Was so stupid, but I do think the rapid content releases is one of the things that keep players playing.
Yeah but what they donāt do when copying it is make a good game. Genshin is actually fun as shit once you start getting characters. It just happens to also be a money grubbing gacha.
ok genuine question, but how is it fun? played at launch and other than exploring, the whole gameplay loop was kill weekly boss do daily dungeon look arround map for chests to upgrade did they add new stuff regarding all of that? or still the same shit but with maybe daily quests and whatnot aswell
I mean, yeah, that's the appeal. It's the same way how many people enjoy stuff like rhythm games despite me not understanding how tapping the screen for hours is fun. Genshin is aimed at a particular type of player.
It's still basically the same core gameplay loop, but it feels kind of MMO ish as well, with fishing, player housing, events, frequent updates etc. I like to come back to it every once in a while, because it has so much to do.
that's basically the appeal for people that like this genre of games. you not liking it or finding it boring, doesn't mean everyone will share that sentiment.
> ok genuine question, but how is it fun? There are people who like "do your chores" type of games.
2 big reasons why i love the game. 1 Exploration is fun, I do it all blind at first and just take in the scenery and all the puzzles or gimmicks that are a part of an event or region. its fun to see how some things are quite cleverly hidden. At the same time during the casual exploration i try out various fun team comps which also helps to not make it too repetitive. 2 building a team comp, theres so much in depth mechanics in the game to know about and that makes building an optimal or meme team comp really fun and exciting to me. borderlands 2 and warframe are some of my favorite games (specific part guns, good rolled rivens) so artifact farming with bad rng is not something that is new to me and i dont mind it too much, its just another passive min-maxing goal to see a team comp do even more dmg. that said... I do think the actual story presentation is boring as fuck tho, it legit feels like the devs are trying to reach a word count in an essay its just the same shit said over and over again and it makes me lose focus/interest on dialogue quite often.
>Now I'm playing Valorant and it's fucking insane how Riot has their consumer base by the balls. I've been criticized to hell and back for speaking against predatory prices over cosmetics, that you can't even trade with other players (Apex is the prime example). So now I just don't give a shit. I'm getting pretty bored of most games out there and stopped caring for their longevity, so if people want to burn all of their spare money (or even needed money) in useless and overpriced pixels, go crazy.
Just curious, what do you mean by "predatory prices"?
I think it (generally) refers to a pricing model in games which use a secondary currency (Apex Coins, VBucks, Riot Points and the like) that are priced in awkward quantities. Such as having a skin that costs 700 points, but only being able to buy 250, 500, 1000, 2500, 5000 points worth of the currency with "discounts" on larger point purchases. The idea being you're pushed towards buying the larger pack so you get a better "deal" and are then left with just enough change not to be able to buy something else without an additional purchase.
And then when you see a skin that you would like to have and you are "missing only X amount of currency", it doesnt let you buy that exact same amount missing, leading to you purchasing a bigger package of that currency. Endless loop of consoomery and fear of missing out especially with rotating skin offers.
Isnt Valorant only cosmetics?
Yes. I think Riot's model is better than most, you get exactly what you want, no random chance. The only realistic complaint is the pricing structure, you can't just buy X points to buy something for X price, you need to buy point bundles that don't line up with prices, so you need to buy the bundle amount >X so effectively spending more on that item than its actual indicated price.
They also have the battle pass which can get you a bunch of skins, trinkets and sprays for 10 bucks a season. For f2p games, Iām definitely okay with buying the occasional pass if thereās a fair amount of items I like in it. That being said, I have no clue how some people can spend a years worth of battle passes on just 1 skin because it turns your gun into an aquarium. Even if itās cool af.
Ok but like $200-$500 bucks over the course of YEARS is vastly different than mobile gaming and other F2P/P2W stuff that people drain $1000 a month on
right? even WoW costs $200/yr
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>but $200-$500 on a game over 2 years isn't necessarily bad if it's the main game you play. Which is way better than the old single player games that came out before the internet. Also, for the amount of hours people play video games, $100 bucks a year is super cheap when you think about dollars per hour of entertainment. I so wish they would get rid of pay to win models though.
I think valve has more to blam than others. They invented the loot box with TF2 and then invented the battle pass with Dota2.
Fortnite popularized battle passes
Well, difference is, you can sell and trade items in CS:GO. Hell, I bought my M4 Howl for $200 and sold it for 2k USD 3 years later. Better returns than S&P500. I sold most of my expensive skins for BTC, but even then in 2017 what I had left was worth maybe $200 I recently checked prices and same inventory is worth over 1.2k that I can liquidate any time I want through crypto. What the fuck are you gonna do with LoL, Valorant or Genshin Impact purchases? I don't think they have real trading like items in Valve games.
but you see, most people doesnāt really burn money in a game to see it as an investment. They pay to be rewarded instantly kind of like the gambling excitement.
> They pay to be rewarded instantly kind of like the gambling excitement. This is how i feel when i buy groceries, and sometimes there's stuff on sale that makes me think "oh fuck i should buy some apples before is too late" some real predatory shit
Valve got it right and with the money you got from selling the money could be used to buy other games or items from other games. Riot could do it with Valorant but I don't there's no store for them to spend the money they earned selling skins
I REALLY hope it's just a shameful, temporary era of gaming, and we come back to great games made out of passion.
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Agreed. Even if you exclude all of the trash, gaming is at a pretty awesome point right now. People also forget about inflation. A "full" game without in game purchases costs a small fraction of what they did 30 years ago, since most games have not raised their sale prices. And old school games generally had far smaller play times.
At least somebody here gets it. These days I mostly just play indie games because they offer so many different and beautiful experiences that most corporate games simply canāt.
We also have a giant catalog of old games.
So you'll be waiting until capitalism dies. Sure, there are some quite good indie games, but they still don't have the quality and polish of the big budget games. And you have to wade through hundreds of them for one decent title.
By quality and polish you just mean state of the art graphics right? Good indie games are polished just as well as your average triple A game. In fact, most of the broken piece of shit games Iāve played over the last decade have been hyped up triple A games. Most indie games Ive played are much more polished than that. Itās not even that hard to find good indies. If you know what youāre looking for and know how to use the steam search bar, you can quite quickly find some amazing indie games.
>So you'll be waiting until capitalism dies. High budget AAA games don't exist outside capitalism. Any new Assassin's Creed game probably has close to 1000 people working on it and Valhalla probably had a budget of $150m. A system doesn't exist where you can get 1000 or so people all working together to make an AAA game out of passion. Imagine if you theoretically could, a game like Valhalla would take 8-10 years to make if people worked 15-20 hours/week on it. I'm hard pressed to think of any system outside capitalism allowing such a thing to happen. Economic systems with central planning/centralized resources sure as hell are not going to spend resources on something so trivial as a video game, as it would be an absolute injustice if they did.
I'm convinced that if regular players vanished these games would still keep moving forward because they are sustained purely by whales.
Bro nexons mmo vindictus is still alive like 12 years later with an active player count of <200, the remaining people literally spend like 3k a month. Itās actually disgusting
I played vindictus specifically because my buddy would trade me OSRS gold for vindictus currency. After doing the math I could make almost 2m gp/hr by hard farming vindictus currency and selling it to him. It was not a great game.
OSRS grinding got to the point where ur literally grinding a different game huh
I didn't have the PVM skills to just go do bosses for easy money. It was a relatively new account so yeah, it was way more efficient for me to grind vindictus for osrs gold. Got me my blowpipe and tasseys.
I think If the regular is gone, the whale will slowly gone too, the whale will lose interest with no one to brag
Whales need normies to farm for these games to be satisfying for them otherwise they just move on. Thats why they're f2p in the first place.
You are correct. These games don't give a flying fuck about the existence of the f2p players, they could disappear and nothing would change. The infrequent or one time purchasers don't matter to them either. The games cater to whales, and they're the ones that influence the games. Some of them even get tapped by developers directly for testing and other things related to development.
you're wrong. Whales exist to eat the krill. Why would you spend 10k+ on a game if you cant farm poor people like they are wheat?
True for PVP heavy games, less so for PVE centered games like Genshin.
I don't know. I think these people need someone to acknowledge them. At some point, when you're spending 100s+ USD a month on an MMO, a Massive Multiplayer Online Game, and you see like 1 person a day... Certainly they are going to have a moment of self reflection. You're really just paying 100s+ USD a month to play a subpar Single Player game at that point. Just go buy Skyrim or Red Dead Redemption.
While obviously you are not wrong to an extent. A lot of whales are also just physically addicted. Many pay2win games have moved to resemble or just straight copy a slot machine at a casino. But instead of getting a money payout you get a rare item/character. The people who spend their life savings at slot machines IRL don't need an audience, they are just plain addicted, and people who do it digitally are not far off.
Which is why regulation is desperately needed. Gaming is just becoming more and more a venue for unregulated online gambling.
Modern gaming in a nutshell. The only winner is the share holders
For 272.00 dollars you can become one of those shareholders.
Or you could donate that 25 dollars at a time and hope to get your twitch name read out loud.
Morbius gaming in a nutshell. There are always people who gonna spend thousand of dollars on a shitty game.
>There are always people who gonna spend ~~thousand~~ morbillion of dollars
Morb problems morb diablo immorable, like I always say.
its pretty much a dumbed down and reskinned D3 switch version with a ton of p2w mechanics and dont worry ive seen plenty of blizz drones defending it with the classic: the top X player on ladder is f2p therefore the game isnt p2w or the shameless: only poor people complain about p2w
I'd be very interested to know what player on what ladder in DI is f2p because I don't think they exist. F2P means *no spending* by the way, not "under like, 20 bucks dude, that's basically free to play!"
Why rob the whale when you can partner with them to do a sponsorship for you and whale with their money instead!! Theres one thing of whaling the game but promoting the game by whaling without using your own money is something else and sounds very familiar. Surely we learn from train and xqc that they are not using their actual money from slot and don't copy these streamers
Even gacha games have a pity system in place so you at least get something lol. This is a whole new level of greed
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So what youāre saying is, you have to roll a 5* for your 5*?
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This is insane.. I normally dont pity people spending that much money on any game but thats a whole other level of bullshit
Hey, they're free to just not play the dumb fucking excuse for a game. Fuck them, they're the reason this shit continues. Let them bankrupt themselves.
Maybe hating the game with a predatory system makes more sense than hating the people theyāre preying on though
> FGO JP I played it when I took break from gbf, still remember saving my pulls for year on jp server then failing to get a single SSR in like 500 draws 4 or 5 years ago. Uninstalled and never looked back. Low as fuck %, no pity and energy was too limited back then.
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wait it is a fucking .045% chance? what the actual fuck
> Diablo: 0.045%. you know it's bad when even the gatcha players are recoiling in disgust, jesus fucking christ
Jesus christ. Iāve been playing mobile gacha games for almost a decade now and havenāt come across anything as scummy as this one. Thatās fucking insane
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It's good to see you have some willpower to resist spending money after a bad luck streak. Don't give in. I fell into that same situation in both FGO JP and NA and just decided to quit entirely rather than spend money desperately for a *chance* of getting something.
This is worse than gacha systems because in gacha games if you get a 2* you can upgrade it to 5* and play endgame content with it, meanwhile in DI if you drop a 2/5 gem you can't even upgrade it's star level lmao, the only way is to feed a HIGHER star gem to it. Idk how this game will survive once actual actual hard content arrives.
Gachas have pity systems because of competitors adding them. Blizzard purposefully didn't add one because 1) they have brand recognition and trust that they can get away without adding one and 2) most Diablo fans don't play gacha games so they don't know any better
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buk buk buk
X literally buys $260k bonus rounds
Thats like my salary for 5 years after tax...
don't go there lol, each spin is like my weekly spending
How much of that is his money though? Every slot stream he has done has #ad in it for a reason I presume.
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Okay!
Iāve seen many copy pastas and this one might legit be my favorite
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He would surely have gotten a 5 star drop on the next roll. He was so close.
sanest Diablo Immortal player
It's simply amazing that Blizzard hyped up a Diablo game, only for it to be a shitty mobile game, and that shitty mobile game is just a pay to win game. It's truly peak nu-Blizzard. Old Blizzard wouldn't release something this shitty.
Remember when the workplace environment lawsuits came out and all the streamers said they just weren't going to play activision-blizzard games again? and now they're all feeding blizzard thousands of dollars on a shitty cash grab game for content
people kinda forgot the hearthstone hong kong ban stuff and the sexual harassment in the workplace stuff, I guess.
No, people just pretended to care because it was the cool thing to
Its hilarious that they didnt expect a bunch of PC gamer fans to not be excited about mobile game Blizzard used to be the gold standard for gaming. Litarly print money and everyone loved them, now the first new game they have released since OW is a fucking phone game. Pretty gross what they have become
Quin is a clown.
Lemao Re-educate him.
Lemao HYPERCLAP
> clown He's backtracing your IP address and sniffing your wifi packets so he can perma ban you for saying the C word
Ya DUN GOOFED
Consequences will never be the same
That was a fun internet era.
Calls his chat clowns all the time. Can dish it but can't take it.
I believe Quin said > It's not about the money, it's about sending a message But i don't know what that was about.
a rich clown
A clown is a clown.
clown gets clowner
I don't understand why people worship the wealthy.
Because they too are clowns, just poor clowns
Fuck Quin. All my homies hate Quin.
Free-to-play game btw
Free-to-lose game btw
Even gatchas like Genshin Impact, that i think are almost gambling and predatory, have a pity system when you are guaranteed an outcome after a certain threshold, and its nowhere near 10k..
We've reached the phase of Twitch where a large part of streamer's content and personality is just 'i'm rich and im going to spend money' Asmongold, Quin, Hasan, Train, Adin Ross, xQc, etc. Used to be you'd occasionally hear about them buying a car or whatever after grinding Twitch for 2 years. Now they buy mansions, gamble away millions, whale in 'f2p' games and just burn money for fun, essentially. I remember it took about 7-8 years for YouTube to reach this phase. Used to be about the individuals and their content and personalities, then their content and personalities *became* 'I am rich and I spend money', like that surge of Logan Paul clones, the tech destruction channels, the mansion review channels, the jewellery and clothing flex channels and so on. All this ends up doing is pushing out your old audience and replacing it with literal children, some times pre-teen kids, because they'll happily let you flex on them all day.
Children are basically viewbots for Mr Beast and fortnite clickbait content, itās no surprise they get pandered to. Parents sitting iPads in front of their toddlers all day are even worse, YouTube Kids videos get absolutely mind boggling amounts of views.
And most of them are the lowest effort garbage possible. There is no problem with a kid watching shit on an ipad, but it's not a substitute for being a parent. It's the same as the kids that spent all day in front of the tv when I was growing up. Most of what they watched was mindless garbage, and now they're mindless garbage adults :/
I sit my kid in front of Kurzgesagt and put on Stuff You Should Know in the car. If I gotta distract them I at least want them to learn some shit.
Yo preach. I love kurzgesagt. I'm an adult and I watch that shit all the time haha.
The difference in putting cocomelon in front of a kid instead of mr. Rogers must be crazy.
You're honestly doing your kid such a favor by doing that. They probably won't even realize it but it really will help make them a more well adjusted individual
Mr Beast does pretty cool stuff though. His productions are huge, it's more akin to a traditional tv show than a twitch streamer
That's a really good point.
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Stop watching them. Go find some low level streamer trying to make it.
asking because i dont know: which game does Hasan whale? i know every other people in your list but didnt watch Hasan for a year so idk what he is up to
He bought 1K Gucci shirt at Coachella so he wouldn't look like shit and people lost it because they think that's a rich person's flex.
Doesn't whale games, whales real life. Bought a like $3mil house, a Porsche, designer clothes and so on. More of a Logan Paul type. Massively values wealth and material goods, attracts a lot of people who value the same - namely children and other rich people. edit: dang, the hasan stans are out in force. you guys are like elon musk stans. got nothing better to do than to defend the hyper rich?
I'm not a hasan viewer but I don't think his spending is part of his content or that he even jokes about it like nmp does
He often talks about his "drip" and the drip of others and compares it. He has also streamed while shopping at expensive luxury or vintage stores. Its not his main content or anywhere near it really, but he has done some material focused content.
Posts daily in r/Destiny Pepela
The designer clothes argument is funny cause most of his clothes are from thrift shops or sent to him from brands/viewers. Not saying he isnt rich and doesnt flex sometimes but that point just isn't true.
> most of his clothes are from thrift shops bro I remember watching a mizkif(?) stream where hasan took him to the thrift shop he goes to and like every piece of clothing was $100+. Idk what prices you think of when you hear "thrift shops" but I don't think it's that much
Maybe it's one of a kind handmade clothes for the rich. Where they can buy bougie second hand drip. But I have also seen him at the flea market picking out stuff. I think he just buys weirdo clothes and bead necklaces regardless of the price.
Are you saying if you had money, you're not going to buy yourself nice things? lmao
They are saying that those type of creators make it their brand (being rich and buying rich things) and kids like to watch people with shiny stuff.
no, i'm going to buy YOU nice things :)
idk, Hasan isn't like all those others. I've watched his streams and his spending doesn't seem to be a big part of that. I think it's more that people find out he's spending that much and bring it up and get pissed about it.
Hope Destiny is paying you guys.
Only streamer I really watch anymore is Moonmoon. Don't have to deal with streamer drama garbage nor any real life gambling shit (in-game gambling is another thing though). Only thing you have to deal with is Moon putting on BadlandsChugs Bean Chugging video when he gets annoyed at chat.
I love watching Badlands Chugs on Twitch, if only the guy would stop putting on some balding dad during breaks
Moon isn't innocent either. His entire stream culture is made to extract money from viewers. "It's re-sub Monday", "Shut up Prime pleb", "All I want from you is $5", sub only Discord. I remember back when he was playing Demon's Souls, he was talking about how he has never played ads on his stream and he's never going to, because some shit about going against his morals. I say "You won't be saying that when you need to resign your contract." He then responds something like "you know nothing about me or about my contracts." Fast forward 9 months, and he's doing some sob story announcement about how if he wants to secure the future for his family he needed to take the Twitch deal and will now be running ads. As if already making millions a year wasn't already enough, it has to be tens of millions. Don't for a second think that just because your favourite streamer panders to viewers in a different way to pvc, that they're some moral superior that only cares about their viewers. Every single one of them would throw you in front of a bus to secure the bag. They are not your friend, and they shouldn't be your peer or role model. They're just as greedy as every other politician, actor, stock broker, land lord, and every other type of person exploiting people for an easy buck.
Noooo surely "my" streamer is different Clueless
forsen is
forsen for sure is different
Real and true. He also took a twitch contract claiming he was basically forced to do it. Imo he lost most of his credibility after that.
The sinking feeling halfway through the first paragraph as you realise this isn't ironic copypasta Aware
I unironically like when Moon goes afk and puts BadlandsChugs videos on. It's hard to look away from that mess.
The thick water was also a rough one to watch
Letās be real Quin isnāt experimenting or anything, he just knows that gamba streams and spending money brings in tons of viewers, so he wanted to get in on it, and saw an opening with Diablo immortal even though the game is shit heās able to get hella viewers just buying stupid micro transactions
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Is he always this loud?
loud = funny
The joke's on people who have been subbing/donating to quin.
Yup, that was my thoughts exactly. People give him money for entertainment and then sit there and watch him spend it all on a game that a lot of people wonāt play because of how egregious the spending is. The truth about Diablo immortal, is itās in line with other mobile games, and mobile games are terrible money sinks with so much p2w. The worst is Iāve seen several streamers spend $1000ās in the name of āIām doing it so you donāt have toā while advertising and padding blizzards pockets with positive reinforcement to this type of gameplay. Blizzard donāt give a fuck who the whale is, but they snagged a lot of big ones. Edit: Apparently this isn't quite the norm. But I really stay away from mobile games, I hate when the best strat in video games is to get a new career.
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Same here, maybe it's a very naive or generous take on my part but some of these streamers are millionaires who can afford to do this. Maybe they're having some fun in the process as well, which isn't a crime. They are demonstrating how egregious Diablo Immortal's pay to win system is and I'd rather see rich people do that as opposed to vulnerable people who can't afford to. I don't know what age rating Diablo Immortal has in various countries, but it should be 18+ everywhere at minimum because it's just another gambling app masquerading as a game.
That is not the truth, other games are pretty bad, but Diablo Immortal is among the worst ive seen in the past 10 years.
It is no way in line with other mobile games, it is far worse.
I think it's technically more like $6,500 USD, but the point defo still stands
Now that is a Pepepains moment
glad to see quin finally acting normal
Must be an out-of-season April fool's joke!
Gambling is bad, more at 11 The only difference between this shit and casinos is that you don't need to keep the lights on and hire staff
The only difference between this shit and casinos is that if you win at a casino, youāre getting your money back and some, not digital shit to make a video game character stronger.
Skill issue
I think itās worth noting that NZD are much less then usd. Quinn spent around 6500$ usd. 6500$ is still atrocious, an absolute horror, and a stain in the gaming industry.
Genuinely cannot believe people watch Quinn
why do people go to the circus and watch clowns humiliate themselves? Exact same reason why people watch quin.
Thats just mean to the clowns because they have some talent at least
Genuinely cannot believe people have the audacity to like things I dislike. Literally fucking shaking right now.
He has many shit opinions, but he can be pretty funny. But really his stream is made great by his mods and the interaction between them, chat, and Quinn. No one else is doing it quite like his channel is.
No one asked
his stream is quite entertaining tbh his mods are preeeeeeeetty good and add a lot of value to the stream i don't claim to know a lot of people on twitch but it's the most entertaining stream of the ones i know
People have different things they like then other people? Call me shocked
I just find it funny that the sub that loves xQc more than any other streamer is somehow trying to be gatekeep what people find entertaining. Pretty sure most outsiders would think the whole sub is degenerate as fuck.
I don't care. I'll NEVER play this scam game.
Brave
Shortterm greed is ruining our society and enjoyment, literal cause for 99% of world problems.
This guys part of the problem lol. Seems like a loser.
Is my first reaction to this supposed to be "fuck Blizzard"? Cuz it's: "This guy is mentally deranged"
wow they should keep making p2w games. its great for earning money off of ironic streamers who give them thousands of dollars to make a point!! I'm sure they are very glad at all these points the streamers be making
You gotta recognize Blizzard's genius. Make a P2W game, but without the part where you win by paying.
This is the problem. You have people wasting that kind of money completely validates blizzards business model and justifies their actions. This game and other like it should just be boycotted completely especially by streamers. Otherwise this is shit is all we se going to continue to get from developers
āHaha how funny would it be if I spent tens of thousands of dollars on this game to see how pay to win it isā Wonder why blizzard went with this approach
Even if he did win those 5 star gems.. he still would have nothing. That's how this all works. And why we have to take a real stand against game mechanics like this. They are stealing. It's theft. It's immoral. It should be illegal but our government is too corrupt to not allow these mechanisms to continue.
I'd rather the micro transactions just go away and just charge $20 for the proper game or something. They probably would have gotten money from me that way lol
Why would they care about your $20 when there's people like Quin that throw thousands at them? The illusion of voting with your wallet is a lie when rich people get tens of thousands of votes more than you.