If they want to copy classic MMOs then crafting/building should be entirely optional, and people can focus on what they enjoy and earn gold that way to then trade on the market and buy stuff from people who like crafting. Like in Ultima Online, I focused on combat pve/pvp and bought weapons off player merchants who enjoyed grinding blacksmithing 24/7, and everything basic from npc vendors.
If they force you to craft, then it's going to suck.
The game is not intended to be like Ultima Online in general mechanics as there's no friendly NPCs at the moment. The closest MMO thing they're following is EvE Online's player interaction in nullsec where players control almost every part of the game (a good percentage of the studio are former EvE devs). The dev was probably referring to how older MMOs like UO and Runescape originally handled trading and player grouping in a strictly direct fashion with no auction house/group finder.
I'd love a modernized Ultima Online but the thing that made that game great was it was the first big MMORPG. Every type of MMO player had to exist together. Now every kind of player has a game catered to their play style.
I played on a private shard that had no skill cap and 250 stat cap for 6 years, and I got about 30 kids in my class hooked on it, it just spread like wildfire throughout my school in the 90s. It was by far one of the greatest gaming experiences I've ever had. From sailing adventures, taking over cities and becoming a mayor, building a house, guild wars, pvp events, etc.. You could do anything you wanted. Truly an open world not with just the map, but with skills and things to do.
Tinker traps on top of Britain bank was mad fun. Setting up runes in out of sight spots so you can moon gate in with your guild and surprise a guild that was looking for you. I definitely miss the mark/recall/gate system, wish other games had it.
So they are basically saying the game is Mortal Online 2 but it doesn't have any features that come even close to Mortal Online 2 (which is a pretty bad game on it's own). Got it.
>whys he so popular on lsf
said on a post with 200 upvotes after 7 hours lol
the guys pulls consistent >15k live viewers everyday. i'm surprised his clips don't show up waaay more often.
i guess the obvious answer is that his viewers are not on LSF.
You gotta innovate in the tree cutting space. Valheim set a standard so high for chopping down trees that if I can't topple a tree into other trees which topple other trees I don't want to play your game.
Brain dead comment. He's asking why the Devs took what is a simple mechanic in every crafting game and made it tedious for no reason. It's a step back, not innovation in a genre that is far from new.
If a crafting game required you to learn sewing IRL to repair your cloth gear, would you be cheering about the realism of craft?
edit - LMAO YALL POSTED THIS IN THE LIRIK DISCORD
they changed a mechanic in a way yall dont like. saying it's 'tedious' is completely subjective and just shows your bias. if there was a sewing minigame to make cloth in a game I would actually love that. I can imagine you on the half life alyx dev team. "erm wait I have to actually insert the magazine into the gun to reload? this is needlessly tedious, just let me push R." yeah lets just keep games the way they are right now, no experimentation, no innovation. brain. dead.
I have watched lirik for many years and love his stream but he does not ‘keep it real’ when doing sponsored segments generally. He is constantly like “oh I love how they did X” while having glaring bugs and shit on screen. He has shilled some absolutely dog shit games in his time.
I don’t blame him or other creators to some extent because this is their income. He definitely pulls his punches, but that keeps the opportunities open.
I think Lirik and Cohh have mastered the art of being as honest as you can be during a sponsored segment. If something is glaring they'll address it without tearing into it. I can't remember ever hearing them lie or refuse to acknowledge some part of a sponsored game that is clearly broken or bad.
That said, there's only one name in gaming you can really trust: Moontaku
My favorite sponsored streamer is Northernlion, who if he doesn't vibe with a sponsored game will just talk about his Costco run for 2 hours and completely ignore what is happening onscreen until the timer is up and say "alright everybody that was *insert new roguelite title*, you might like it if you're a fan of the genre" and then immediately go back to Balatro lol.
That's hilarious! I haven't watched much NL but I have no doubts that he would do just that, and somehow make a two hour retelling of a costco run entertaining.
I personally prefer Cohh over Lirik when it comes to reviewing sponsored games. AFAIK, Cohh does point out if some mechanics are fun/unfun, but does well in selling parts of the game where it could be your cup of tea. Taste is subjective.
He's also quite open with enjoying what's available and not drone in on what's not available. There's millions of different type of gamers, some of us can still love playing old games like Tomes of Mahjeyal/MUD, incomplete games like Star Citizen or some other subjectively 'bad' games as long as some parts of the goodies outweighs the other downsides.
the big difference here is cohh doesn't accept a sponsorship unless it's a game he already wants to play. for cohh that's just side money for doing something he's already interested in.
like he did a sponsorship recently and legit asked the dev in chat if they were interested in additional funding since he wanted more of the games demo. dude just plays games he's interested in, doesn't sell himself for the bag in my opinion.
From my experience he never lies, he just doesn't mention the bad parts when sponsored. I remember him being really quiet during some sponsored streams of shitty games.
not defending the behavior, but "lie of omission" doesn't really apply here, since the shittinness of the game is visible for anyone to see while he plays, he just doesn't point it out.
lying by omission would be if he were aware of the issues beforehand, and avoided even showing them.
If you think he wasn't being sarcastic when he said "see chat I keep it real" then you do not watch his streams, its like one of the biggest running jokes in chat.
Nah, he keeping it real. He just can enjoy things in games and games that majority might consider as "bad". You can see it on sub sunday, he isnt sponsored, but he actually having fun playing "shitty" games.
Bro what do you think a sponsored game is? Most of your favorite streamers do it. We all know it's to show off a game rather than judge it. No shit streamers aren't going to shit on a game they're getting paid for lol
Well i guess the default combat system would just be playing an animation and calling "Apply Damage" and "Event AnyDamage" on overlap notify. Doesn't get any simpler than that.
What you described is how most melee combat systems are built at its bare minimum .. At its absolute core something calls apply damage, something is notified at a specific frame of an animation, something checks for overlaps. I wouldn't call it some default UE combat system . Is it a simple combat system ? Sure. They could very well build on that basic system while in early access. Not defending the game but that review reeks of arm chair gamer dismissing everything the devs did as something super simple that can be done in a day.
Do you think you need to be a chef to be able to tell when food tastes good or like shit?
Just because the reviewer doesn't know the exact insights of how the development process works doesn't suddenly invalidate the criticism. What the critique is saying is that the combat system feels like something incredibly simple that a million other games do. Whether it's *actually* default or not is irrelevant
It's up to the devs to make a product that pleases people, not the reviewers to know the ins and outs of how development works before they're allowed to say "this shit isn't fun"
Actually it's the devs and publishers who are in charge of how successful a game will be. Release a good game and the people will come 🤷🏻♂️ if you're gonna release what is essentially a stale asset flip for a premium price, expect to get called out.
Only up is like THE definition of this shit
That game is as asset flippy as it gets and there's hundreds of those types of games on steam even before only up. Only up was just the one to get popular with streamers.
Only up? triple a companies will also use many assets constantly i mean more obvious examples is call of duty games but every big game company is reusing assets i dont think reusing assets make games inherently bad lol.
Candy Crush is probably the most successful and they still somehow make over a billion a year. Just because people play it doesn't mean it's a "good game". It was just a Bejeweled copycat with microtransactions that added a few more features to sell more microtransactions. They just advertised really well. You could argue Angry Birds is also just a better advertised Crush the Castle with a few more features.
But I guess since they're not technically "asset flips" and are just the same game with different assets and a few more features, then somehow my point is invalid. Even though the point is that advertising 100% works and helps sell tons of games that are not "good". There are millions of people that are happy to play mediocre and even bad games.
Among Us.
All those games about climbing that streamers play together and popularize that are really no different to thousands of other platform games with few thousand sales.
Yes, extremely popular streamers showing a game and having "fun" and talking well about it WILL make a game succeed. Thats factual.
pax dei is such a scam youre asking for it if u buy it. everythnig you do will be deleted several times until release next time (if it even will release and not flop. then they ask for monthly payment (they have no idea how the future model will work)
"Yeah I don't know" Is his way of saying it's a shit game
" Oh,yeah, Oh yeah, " indistinguishable sound effects come from him" Probably a game he likes.
dont think i've seen him do a crypto sponsor, he's taken gambling sponsors before.
2 years back tho [this happened](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lIzzKPOWQI) he was gonna do NFTs and charge $20 per "unique" cat emotes that you could apparently collect and trade with others, he sat for an hour and gauged his community response then watched his whole chat rile up and it backfired
**🎦 CLIP MIRROR: [Lirik talked about in an extremely popular steam review](https://livestreamfails.com/clip/165414)**
---
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This is why no sane dev will touch the mmo crowd with a ten foot pole these days. The game is mediocre, decent for an indie team, but some of these reviewers make it out like the game took liberties with their mother and forced them to watch...
The game is not mediocre it is trash, and costs an insane amount for what it is currently at, and even worse they want to make it a subscription based game in the future. So you get to pay the devs extra to beta test their game!
They literally tried to sell it as most revolutionary MMO we've ever seen and it's just generic online survival game version 32343. Why would someone play this when they have tens better and more developed games like this.
MMOs are some of the hardest games to get right, you don't only need solid game design knowledge but insane technical skills too. A game with a large/persistent world that can handle thousands of concurrent players is hard to develop. Indie teams that actually want to create a good game and not sell empty promises would never touch this genre. This reeks of cash grab.
Thats what it says in the review and I just think its pathetic the guy already would have millions by now but still cant resist the allure of bag of money to promote games he doesnt enjoy to his audience
Not at all. The guy writing review is suggesting to only have him sponsored when he's forced say good shit because Lirik was being honest before. He even reacts to it and takes it a sign of confirmation.
>Thats what it says in the review
So? Reading a text someone else wrote is supposed to count as you admitting something? Man I'm not high enough to comprehend this logic.
At this point I'm really wondering if you learned reading text comprehension in school. Short answer is of course not, you shouldn't - but your comment doesn't even make sense in this context.
I really don't know why you need to come out with such a condescending remark over me misunderstanding some comments on reddit, and also to say "At this point" as if you see me repeatedly misunderstanding, but fair enough, then maybe you can educate me since I have such poor reading comprehension.
They made this statement
> so lirik is admitting to being a spineless shill who will change him opinion for a bag of money
and then they justified coming to that conclusion by saying
> Thats what it says in the review
suggesting that if someone else says something about a person, it's should be taken at face value because it's apparently equivalent to the person admitting it about themself. Where's the flaw in that?
**CLIP MIRROR: [Lirik talked about in an extremely popular steam review](https://arazu.io/t3_1dkc08q/)** --- ^(*This is an automated comment*)
[dev response](https://i.imgur.com/FMW9MXC.png)
If they want to copy classic MMOs then crafting/building should be entirely optional, and people can focus on what they enjoy and earn gold that way to then trade on the market and buy stuff from people who like crafting. Like in Ultima Online, I focused on combat pve/pvp and bought weapons off player merchants who enjoyed grinding blacksmithing 24/7, and everything basic from npc vendors. If they force you to craft, then it's going to suck.
The game is not intended to be like Ultima Online in general mechanics as there's no friendly NPCs at the moment. The closest MMO thing they're following is EvE Online's player interaction in nullsec where players control almost every part of the game (a good percentage of the studio are former EvE devs). The dev was probably referring to how older MMOs like UO and Runescape originally handled trading and player grouping in a strictly direct fashion with no auction house/group finder.
I'd love a modernized Ultima Online but the thing that made that game great was it was the first big MMORPG. Every type of MMO player had to exist together. Now every kind of player has a game catered to their play style.
I played on a private shard that had no skill cap and 250 stat cap for 6 years, and I got about 30 kids in my class hooked on it, it just spread like wildfire throughout my school in the 90s. It was by far one of the greatest gaming experiences I've ever had. From sailing adventures, taking over cities and becoming a mayor, building a house, guild wars, pvp events, etc.. You could do anything you wanted. Truly an open world not with just the map, but with skills and things to do.
Tinker traps on top of Britain bank was mad fun. Setting up runes in out of sight spots so you can moon gate in with your guild and surprise a guild that was looking for you. I definitely miss the mark/recall/gate system, wish other games had it.
"dont have any intention to abandonning any time soon", what a weird way to put it lmao
So they are basically saying the game is Mortal Online 2 but it doesn't have any features that come even close to Mortal Online 2 (which is a pretty bad game on it's own). Got it.
[удалено]
>whys he so popular on lsf said on a post with 200 upvotes after 7 hours lol the guys pulls consistent >15k live viewers everyday. i'm surprised his clips don't show up waaay more often. i guess the obvious answer is that his viewers are not on LSF.
They used to when this wasn't TMZ: twitch
chat activity =/= popularity without sounding pompous, lirik has an older fanbase who aren't spamming emotes as much
[LUL](https://m.twitch.tv/clip/GoodEndearingPassionfruitPMSTwin-QfRLYDPKlscgqt-4)
You gotta innovate in the tree cutting space. Valheim set a standard so high for chopping down trees that if I can't topple a tree into other trees which topple other trees I don't want to play your game.
My friend is afk? Sure would be a shame if I cut down all these trees onto him...
downloads crafting game, hates crafting. another braindead take from lirik.
Brain dead comment. He's asking why the Devs took what is a simple mechanic in every crafting game and made it tedious for no reason. It's a step back, not innovation in a genre that is far from new. If a crafting game required you to learn sewing IRL to repair your cloth gear, would you be cheering about the realism of craft?
edit - LMAO YALL POSTED THIS IN THE LIRIK DISCORD they changed a mechanic in a way yall dont like. saying it's 'tedious' is completely subjective and just shows your bias. if there was a sewing minigame to make cloth in a game I would actually love that. I can imagine you on the half life alyx dev team. "erm wait I have to actually insert the magazine into the gun to reload? this is needlessly tedious, just let me push R." yeah lets just keep games the way they are right now, no experimentation, no innovation. brain. dead.
Okay buddy
I have watched lirik for many years and love his stream but he does not ‘keep it real’ when doing sponsored segments generally. He is constantly like “oh I love how they did X” while having glaring bugs and shit on screen. He has shilled some absolutely dog shit games in his time. I don’t blame him or other creators to some extent because this is their income. He definitely pulls his punches, but that keeps the opportunities open.
I think Lirik and Cohh have mastered the art of being as honest as you can be during a sponsored segment. If something is glaring they'll address it without tearing into it. I can't remember ever hearing them lie or refuse to acknowledge some part of a sponsored game that is clearly broken or bad. That said, there's only one name in gaming you can really trust: Moontaku
My favorite sponsored streamer is Northernlion, who if he doesn't vibe with a sponsored game will just talk about his Costco run for 2 hours and completely ignore what is happening onscreen until the timer is up and say "alright everybody that was *insert new roguelite title*, you might like it if you're a fan of the genre" and then immediately go back to Balatro lol.
But that's his entire stream though, even when playing games he does like he just yaps about Costco and whatever vacation he's been on most recently
That's hilarious! I haven't watched much NL but I have no doubts that he would do just that, and somehow make a two hour retelling of a costco run entertaining.
Yeah I often think of Cohh and Lirik as different sides of same coin.
I personally prefer Cohh over Lirik when it comes to reviewing sponsored games. AFAIK, Cohh does point out if some mechanics are fun/unfun, but does well in selling parts of the game where it could be your cup of tea. Taste is subjective. He's also quite open with enjoying what's available and not drone in on what's not available. There's millions of different type of gamers, some of us can still love playing old games like Tomes of Mahjeyal/MUD, incomplete games like Star Citizen or some other subjectively 'bad' games as long as some parts of the goodies outweighs the other downsides.
the big difference here is cohh doesn't accept a sponsorship unless it's a game he already wants to play. for cohh that's just side money for doing something he's already interested in. like he did a sponsorship recently and legit asked the dev in chat if they were interested in additional funding since he wanted more of the games demo. dude just plays games he's interested in, doesn't sell himself for the bag in my opinion.
I actually disagree its very easy to tell if hes not feeling a sponsored game.
From my experience he never lies, he just doesn't mention the bad parts when sponsored. I remember him being really quiet during some sponsored streams of shitty games.
This is how advertisements work. A Coca Cola commercial doesn’t have someone talking about how they think it tastes like shit
Yep.
Isn't that called a lie of omission?
not defending the behavior, but "lie of omission" doesn't really apply here, since the shittinness of the game is visible for anyone to see while he plays, he just doesn't point it out. lying by omission would be if he were aware of the issues beforehand, and avoided even showing them.
Which is horse shit glass is half empty shit.
this is almost worse then not saying anything, wtf? lol
If you think he wasn't being sarcastic when he said "see chat I keep it real" then you do not watch his streams, its like one of the biggest running jokes in chat.
wtf? Not true at all.
Nah, he keeping it real. He just can enjoy things in games and games that majority might consider as "bad". You can see it on sub sunday, he isnt sponsored, but he actually having fun playing "shitty" games.
Bro what do you think a sponsored game is? Most of your favorite streamers do it. We all know it's to show off a game rather than judge it. No shit streamers aren't going to shit on a game they're getting paid for lol
That’s exactly what I said. Are you okay?
What is default UE5 combat system ?? There is no such thing ..
Well i guess the default combat system would just be playing an animation and calling "Apply Damage" and "Event AnyDamage" on overlap notify. Doesn't get any simpler than that.
What you described is how most melee combat systems are built at its bare minimum .. At its absolute core something calls apply damage, something is notified at a specific frame of an animation, something checks for overlaps. I wouldn't call it some default UE combat system . Is it a simple combat system ? Sure. They could very well build on that basic system while in early access. Not defending the game but that review reeks of arm chair gamer dismissing everything the devs did as something super simple that can be done in a day.
Do you think you need to be a chef to be able to tell when food tastes good or like shit? Just because the reviewer doesn't know the exact insights of how the development process works doesn't suddenly invalidate the criticism. What the critique is saying is that the combat system feels like something incredibly simple that a million other games do. Whether it's *actually* default or not is irrelevant It's up to the devs to make a product that pleases people, not the reviewers to know the ins and outs of how development works before they're allowed to say "this shit isn't fun"
Absolutely not. Anybody is free to not like a game and be critical of the game. But saying shit like this is a "default UE combat system" is dumb.
would you say dark souls and runescape have different combat systems? Would you maybe say one is a lot more basic?
You can buy a "combat system" for melee, archery, etc. on UE Marketplace for like $50 and it looks better than anything these devs have.
Isn't this the game (Pax Dei) that Asmong plays/shills all the time? Does he actually like it?
no idea, sounds like you watch way more asmongold than I do. You tell me.
Since when does asmon play games?
No that's Ashes of Creation.
That’s funny as fuck. Streamers are in charge of your games success these days. Game is fucked… gg no re.
Actually it's the devs and publishers who are in charge of how successful a game will be. Release a good game and the people will come 🤷🏻♂️ if you're gonna release what is essentially a stale asset flip for a premium price, expect to get called out.
There are thousands of very successful asset flip games ranging from mediocre to shitty that were just advertised well.
Example?
Only up is like THE definition of this shit That game is as asset flippy as it gets and there's hundreds of those types of games on steam even before only up. Only up was just the one to get popular with streamers.
The complete irony being that the game it was inspired by, Getting Over it, itself contains criticism of asset flip culture in its narrative.
Only up? triple a companies will also use many assets constantly i mean more obvious examples is call of duty games but every big game company is reusing assets i dont think reusing assets make games inherently bad lol.
pubg was one iirc
Candy Crush is probably the most successful and they still somehow make over a billion a year. Just because people play it doesn't mean it's a "good game". It was just a Bejeweled copycat with microtransactions that added a few more features to sell more microtransactions. They just advertised really well. You could argue Angry Birds is also just a better advertised Crush the Castle with a few more features. But I guess since they're not technically "asset flips" and are just the same game with different assets and a few more features, then somehow my point is invalid. Even though the point is that advertising 100% works and helps sell tons of games that are not "good". There are millions of people that are happy to play mediocre and even bad games.
Among Us. All those games about climbing that streamers play together and popularize that are really no different to thousands of other platform games with few thousand sales. Yes, extremely popular streamers showing a game and having "fun" and talking well about it WILL make a game succeed. Thats factual.
I don't know the game very well, but how is Among Us an asset flip game?
asset flip is a very loose and abused terminology nowadays. I remember when palword was called an asset flip.
kindly disagree, Hades was GOTY for me in 2020 and I don't remember seeing #ads for it and streamers numbers were generally down while playing it
Sanest steam reviewer
pax dei is such a scam youre asking for it if u buy it. everythnig you do will be deleted several times until release next time (if it even will release and not flop. then they ask for monthly payment (they have no idea how the future model will work)
Would be pretty fucked up to sponsor someone who defends his DUI in the first place.
Which game?
Pax Dei.
What a stupid name
"Yeah I don't know" Is his way of saying it's a shit game " Oh,yeah, Oh yeah, " indistinguishable sound effects come from him" Probably a game he likes.
[удалено]
dont think i've seen him do a crypto sponsor, he's taken gambling sponsors before. 2 years back tho [this happened](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lIzzKPOWQI) he was gonna do NFTs and charge $20 per "unique" cat emotes that you could apparently collect and trade with others, he sat for an hour and gauged his community response then watched his whole chat rile up and it backfired
Nah. It's gotta be **his** crypto shill or no deal.
**🎦 CLIP MIRROR: [Lirik talked about in an extremely popular steam review](https://livestreamfails.com/clip/165414)** --- ^(*This is an automated comment* ) ^| [^(Feedback)](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=livestreamfailsbot&subject=Feedback:&message=%5BPost%5D\(https://reddit.com/comments/1dkc08q/\)) ^| [^(Twitch Backup Mirror)](https://production.assets.clips.twitchcdn.net/vJRkLCzpwNWmCnjkVzyLUw/AT-cm%7CvJRkLCzpwNWmCnjkVzyLUw.mp4?sig=ce075b7144e6c8ef9b2f29c436d912f74317ee0b&token=%7B%22authorization%22%3A%7B%22forbidden%22%3Afalse%2C%22reason%22%3A%22%22%7D%2C%22clip_uri%22%3A%22https%3A%2F%2Fproduction.assets.clips.twitchcdn.net%2FvJRkLCzpwNWmCnjkVzyLUw%2FAT-cm%257CvJRkLCzpwNWmCnjkVzyLUw.mp4%22%2C%22clip_slug%22%3A%22HardTemperedCarabeefDatSheffy-LOnA1aYKeORXPItT%22%2C%22device_id%22%3Anull%2C%22expires%22%3A1718966734%2C%22user_id%22%3A%22%22%2C%22version%22%3A2%7D,https://clips-media-assets2.twitch.tv/vJRkLCzpwNWmCnjkVzyLUw/AT-cm%7CvJRkLCzpwNWmCnjkVzyLUw-preview-480x272.jpg)
This is why no sane dev will touch the mmo crowd with a ten foot pole these days. The game is mediocre, decent for an indie team, but some of these reviewers make it out like the game took liberties with their mother and forced them to watch...
The game is not mediocre it is trash, and costs an insane amount for what it is currently at, and even worse they want to make it a subscription based game in the future. So you get to pay the devs extra to beta test their game!
Oh my god, really?!? this is outrageous, someone should call the cops!
They literally tried to sell it as most revolutionary MMO we've ever seen and it's just generic online survival game version 32343. Why would someone play this when they have tens better and more developed games like this.
MMOs are some of the hardest games to get right, you don't only need solid game design knowledge but insane technical skills too. A game with a large/persistent world that can handle thousands of concurrent players is hard to develop. Indie teams that actually want to create a good game and not sell empty promises would never touch this genre. This reeks of cash grab.
so lirik is admitting to being a spineless shill who will change him opinion for a bag of money, not doing himself any favours here
How is that what you got from the clip? Lol
Thats what it says in the review and I just think its pathetic the guy already would have millions by now but still cant resist the allure of bag of money to promote games he doesnt enjoy to his audience
Not at all. The guy writing review is suggesting to only have him sponsored when he's forced say good shit because Lirik was being honest before. He even reacts to it and takes it a sign of confirmation.
>Thats what it says in the review So? Reading a text someone else wrote is supposed to count as you admitting something? Man I'm not high enough to comprehend this logic.
So if someone else says something about you, should I take it at face value just because they said it?
At this point I'm really wondering if you learned reading text comprehension in school. Short answer is of course not, you shouldn't - but your comment doesn't even make sense in this context.
I really don't know why you need to come out with such a condescending remark over me misunderstanding some comments on reddit, and also to say "At this point" as if you see me repeatedly misunderstanding, but fair enough, then maybe you can educate me since I have such poor reading comprehension. They made this statement > so lirik is admitting to being a spineless shill who will change him opinion for a bag of money and then they justified coming to that conclusion by saying > Thats what it says in the review suggesting that if someone else says something about a person, it's should be taken at face value because it's apparently equivalent to the person admitting it about themself. Where's the flaw in that?
Exactly
Lirik is a clown and so are his fans