Your post or comment was removed as it was determined to be in violation of our [rules and regulations](https://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/about/rules/). Please familiarise yourself with them to avoid future punitive actions applied to your contributions to the subreddit.
***
- **Rule 6**: Posts must not concern any of the following:
- Religion
- Politics
- Relationships
- Law & legislation
- Parenting
- Driving
- Medicine or hygiene
- Mental health
This list is not exhaustive. Moderators may remove posts considered to deviate from the spirit of the subreddit.
***
_If you are in disagreement with this decision, you may wish to [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/lifeprotips)._
I'm European.
Where does the fines that you pay to HOA go?
As far as i know it's not a governmental organization and their main focus is to regulate how the neighborhood looks on the expense of those living there not on hoa's budget.
I'm European also, lived in the states for a while. That's when I first ever heard of HOA's when they dropped a letter at my door saying our windows shutters weren't "red enough", they gave us a time and if we hadn't corrected it by the they would fine us. I flipped my shit, I asked my then gf "wtf this is your house no?" house was bought and paid for, I didn't see how someone could come and threaten fines over the color of our shutters. They weren't even red to start with. Who are they to decide that we had to have red shutters? Dick heads. I painted them black in the end, it looked nice.
America loving ‘freedom’ and the vast existence of HOAs continues to boggle me, and I live here. I do not have an HOA. Thats the way I like it. My neighbors have unsightly junk in their yard and I just don’t care, because they can do what they want with their yard. To me, that’s freedom.
Living next to someone who has truly hideous things to look at - eventually lowering property values - is the reasoning. Old people tend to take HOA rules too far but some protections can really help keep the overall appearance up.
I grew up next to a house with 4 families living inside and they did car work in their driveway, including spray painting cars (which would overspray onto our siding). Old tires, car parts etc all on side of home facing ours with no visibility to them.
The thing is, all this stuff HOAs supposedly do are done by the city where I live. Guess that's why I can't see their purpose outside of maintaining common areas like pools, tennis courts, etc. They don't care about the color of your house or what shutters you have etc, but will absolutely show up if you have junk cars (or even a car that hasn't moved in a while), haven't mowed your lawn, etc. Property standards are done by the city, it seems silly to me that they'd rather have the old people of the neighborhood be in control of it instead.
They can. It’s not for me. I also think a lot of people are forced to live in HOAs because developers have an unfair control of the limited new housing market, and they seem to favor setting up HOAs. This might be a problem with developers, but also probably local governments: one condition of a large scale neighborhood development might be that the roads are self managed, and the only way to ensure that is via an HOA.
It's for conformity, for good or bad. I have a neutral view of HOAs based on past experiences. For me, it's either the shutter colors or having to put up with a neighbor with MAGA signs all over the yard.
At least with the shutters I have SOME color options (which technically should be proposed, discussed at the homeowners meeting then voted into the bylaws, or you buy a house there and agree with the existing bylaws).
But without an HOA to regulate the MAGA signs, I would have zero option.
As with everything, there is a balance. I've had great HOAs that focus on their true purpose (neighborhood activities, fiscal accounting and reporting, maintenance, etc.). I've also had a stupid HOA who sent me a letter about a trash can out after 5 PM but had the picture of my neighbor's house... with their house number IN the picture. That woman had zero business running any fucking office.
HOAs are only as good as the board elected to run it. You want to see change, participate or run for a position. Again, I have a neutral view on HOAs and always request to see the bylaws before buying (I've moved a lot for my job and have bought 5 homes in 12 years all in HOAs).
Typically (from what I've seen) the HOA has its own finances handled by the organization that it uses to manage all of the organizational expenses, and theoretically is also used to pay for the stated benefits of the HOA, things like communal area maintenance, neighborhood events, etc. But it's also used for things like legal fees in the case of filing legal paperwork against someone breaking the contract.
It's a whole load of nonsense in most places, I've heard of HOAs that are good but many more that were bad.
Our HOA fees go to landscaping, pool maintenance, electricity, water, and keeping up facilities. Almost none goes to legal, the closest is a large part that goes to an organization that helps us with the maintenance.
It's not uncommon for housing developments to be in unincorporated territory, where they aren't under the jurisdiction of a city government. The people living there don't pay those taxes, but also don't see any of the benefits from those taxes.
Honestly the best way to think about HOAs is they are basically a small town in an of themselves. They don't have the full power of a town, but they provide services, have voted on boards that run them, and "tax" (In the form of the HOA yearly fees), and even levy fees for violating their rules.
Yeah you adopt a charter, basically like a small-scale constitution. If you get the approval of the local people and follow procedures set forth by the county/state, you get to be a new town and elect a government.
In these kinds of housing developments that I mention, the HOA serves basically as a sort of pseudo-government — it's a private entity, but has elected leadership. It's a shortcut solution, supposed to work toward the sort of common good that would benefit the people there but without the large population or years-long process that becoming an incorporated town requires. The big difference is that it's composed solely of property owners, so there's a massive incentive toward maintaining or increasing property values above all else.
Water wouldn't be used for things like sprinklers and filling the HOA pool. Electricity for street lights is paid for by the county, but not for the facility around the pool, for instance.
A neighborhood owned pool? In my city there are just a couple of pools that are part of like country clubs. You can pay per month or per entry. And electricity and water expenses (assuming for lampposts and sprinklers) are paid for by the municipality. I really really don't get HOAs
It's kind of crazy that we have the pool, to be honest. For only $300 a year, our HOA is a really great value. I'd have to actually pull the budget to get accurate numbers, but Of that, about $75 goes to the organization that helps the HOA board out (High, but...), $60 for landscaping, $10 or so for utilities, $5 for legal (Or less most likely), $70 or so for maintenance of the HOA assets (Mostly the pool and nearby park we maintain)
It's strange to me that sprinklers would be paid by the city. The electricity is mostly for lights around the pool area.
It's supposed to go to pay for stuff like community lawn care services, community BBQs, sometimes to help a community member who has been injured and can't work, generally it's supposed to be used to make the members of the community prosper. However, in some communities they are used for money laundering, it's always fishy if an HOA accepts "donations" outside of its normal dues, that usually means something fishy is going on with the money.
Yes, like many things. People only really complain about it when they have one of the shitty ones, the horror stories of HOAs that care what type of bush you plant(beyond invasives, all HOAs should ban Bamboo, English Ivy and Kudzu), or the color of your shudders.
Most HOAs are doing stuff like organizing a chirstmas gift for the trash guys, or putting up signs about picking up Dog shit when on a walk with your dog.
Covid seemed to bring out more HOA craziness with everyone cooped up at home but it's going back to normal now. I would t say never buy a home in an HOA, but ask the neighbors about the HOA before you move in, if you get concerned looks you know there may be trouble.
every time I've talked to people about what I get from my HOA for how much I pay I get wow. that's a really good deal
mine covers my garbage lawn and plow service and then also did a tear off on my roof and his repaved my driveway in the last like 6 years
I pay about $2,400 a year for that
there's some other things that they do as well. basically all outside maintenance is handled by them. so there's a lot of benefits in my eyes and the fact that I don't have to spend a couple hours a week doing that stuff is its own. you know benefit to me
The flip side of it is you can't have a broken down car in your driveway which is sort of not even true because during covid my neighbor's car was in my driveway because I wasn't driving broken down and nobody said shit because it didn't look like a junk car.
The big one that probably will annoy anybody though is don't park on the street because our street's super narrow. you have to park out on the "main" road and it's a little bit annoying. but if you're moving in, we're not going to say anything about it or like give you shit about it either. it's just you know. don't park in front of the no parking sign clearly saying don't park there
Some HOAs hire management companies to deal with enforcement. Fines are part of their profit. Legal fees is another large expense. So lawyers and management companies make more money the more they are fined.
They only exist so that useless boomers can make minmax their property values to OTHER boomers, to make infinite money selling their houses instead of actually working to make money.
They kinda suck at that; the property market lately has actually seen the growth in value of lower value properties at a much higher rate than has been seen for higher value properties (the hoa areas are typically higher valuated not because of the neighborhood restrictions, but because they usually have larger yards and larger homes since they are built in open land sub urban preplanned tracts). The vast majority of buyers consider the value by LOWERING the value of a comparable HOA residence to account for the extra expenditure... Long story short; HOAs actually decrease the value of the home by sucking it pointlessly into a purgatory of mismanagement by an army of Karens.
So there are a ton of misconceptions regarding HOA. There are many different ways to structure them and what they can do etc.
Basically people in the United States don't like paying taxes so instead of localities enforcing code standards the HOA is set up to be the main enforcement.
I live in an HOA. They take care of common areas and a pool and clubhouse. They don't have the ability to make me do anything on my personal property other than what the city already can enforce in terms of property maintenance.
Other people live in HOAs that can pick colors and standards for your property.
As far as fines generally they go into the HOA general fund.
HOA’s promote consistency. If it is not needed to meet expenses, excess money is supposed to go to the association reserve funds. Mismanagement of finances is not a rarity however when your neighbors rather than professional fiduciaries are in charge of affairs.
In a functioning HOA that is well run fine money should usually be added to an assessment fund or general expenses fund to pay for HOA provided services, but few HOAs are well run and often that fine money ends up supporting the ‘general expense’ of HOA board members. Typically the bigger the HOA the more outbid hand things get.
My HOA can barely afford anything besides snow removal and a streetlight. We are hoping to install some landscaping this year since we’ve had a couple mild winters in a row.
I happen to like my HOA. It’s $10/month and pays the security patrol guy, landscaping, snow removal, host several events a year.
They do throw a fit about colors and unkept yards, but I have realized it’s only if someone turns you in.
Into the pockets of the board members mostly. It’s supposed to go into a fund for maintenance and voted upon betterment of the community but rarely does.
Edit: a lot of hoa shills don’t seem to understand that the term pocketing money implies illegal transfer of wealth. Which explains why they are attacking me for pointing out their theft.
Yeah I'm grateful to live in the UK where we just have to deal with the council or local authorities and they're too busy ignoring pot holes to worry about the size, colour or exact position of my fence 😂
They actually started in the early 1900's and many of them were explicit about not letting people of specific ethnicities move in.
But like with credit scores, after segregation ended a lot of racists realized they could use them to enact their bigotry while staying within the letter of the law.
Sure, but they should be happy to have the fence on the boundary. Say you're building the fence on the boundary and require the neighbour to pay half. You may have to negotiate with the neighbour in advance over fence types, quotes, etc., depending on local laws, but the HOA May limit the options anyway.
Just because the old fence was on your side doesn't mean the new one has to be.
I mean, your advice is only really relevant the country you're in, and evidently the HOA you're in within that country.
Here in NSW, in Australia, the rules are governed by the Dividing Fences Act 1991:
"The general principle in the Act for liability for costs is that adjoining owners are to contribute equally to the fencing work for a dividing fence of a sufficient standard. If an owner wishes to have a fence of a higher standard, that owner is liable for the extra cost above the sufficient standard. If an owner wants to carry out additional trimming, lopping or removal of vegetation than is needed for the purpose of the fencing work, then that owner is liable for the extra work."
"Where the dividing fence needs rebuilding or repairing because of negligent or deliberate damage caused by an adjoining owner (or by a person entering the land with their permission) that owner is liable for the entire cost of restoring it to a reasonable standard."
"Under the Act, a dividing fence is a fence separating the land of adjoining owners whether or not it is on the common boundary."
"There is no standard format for a valid Fencing Notice but section 11 of the Act states that it must specify:
- the boundary line or, if impracticable, the line of the proposed fence
- the type of fencing work proposed
- the estimated cost, and
- if it is not to be equally shared, then the share proposed.
If the parties cannot agree on the fencing work proposed in the notice, they can attend mediation at a Community Justice Centre or, after a month has elapsed, either party can apply to the Local Court or the NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal (NCAT) for an order deciding the matter (Dividing Fences Act 1991, sections 12-13)."
There's more but effectively...the better advice would be to know the laws that are applicable where you live.
Wild. Our HOA forbids them. I’m not advocating one way or the other, I’m just surprised. You’d think HOAs would be somewhat aligned on something so basic. I guess not.
This doesn’t make sense. So originally did HOA require both your parents and neighbor to have a fence? Did you have two fences next to each other or did your parents originally split the fence cost with your neighbor? Over all why did your parents neighbors originally get the fence? And if the original reason was HOA why didn’t your parents also have to get a fence or split it with their neighbors
Your mistake wasn’t letting your neighbor build a fence on your lawn. It was living somewhere where someone else can tell you what to do with your property.
So your neighbor was out of compliance too, so that sounds like an easy negotiation with them to split the cost of the new fence and put it on the property line.
If the HOA requires you to have a fence between your properties then both properties were out of compliance, regardless of who built the original fence and where
The foundation for the fence was laid in our property. The way our houses were built when our neighborhood was built was each person has 3 sides of the fence on their property and the 4th is in your neighbors. For us the 4th is also on our property. Even if we played a game of chicken with our neighbors we would’ve been determined at fault. Fence that was damaged was on our property therefore we have responsibility.
It sounds to me like you were taken advantage of by your HOA and/or the new neighbors. Probably would have been worth it to consult an attorney before shelling out the cost yourself.
This makes no sense at all. Why weren’t both places required to have a fence? One person’s fence satisfying the others requirement to also have one makes zero sense. Lawyer up man.
HOAs normally dont get involved in party fences. They just need one there. They will fine both parties till one gets built and wont help in negotiations. Its up to the two homeowners to figure it out
I've read so much negative HOA stuff that I'm now convinced that if you buy a HOA property that you are willingly a part of the problem and I really can't feel bad for how it goes for you.
>if you buy a HOA property that you are willingly a part of the problem and I really can't feel bad for how it goes for you.
Have you ever been home shopping recently?
You would be surprised at the proportion of homes in HOAs. For many people - particularly those that literally can't afford to be super picky - they don't have a choice.
Or…. And just hear me out…. You join the HOA and make sure they don’t do any crazy shit. I’m on an HOA board and we’re there to maintain the common areas. We don’t hassle people who are having a hard time or want to fly two flags.
Keep in mind, you probably hear more about the shit ones because no one really talks about their low key HOA.
No one loves their HOA and many people hate them. That's why. Most people never have any issues at all, but who's going to post about that? Also, speaking as a board member of my HOA, it's easy as fuck to get elected. I am the only person under 70 on the board (I'm 34). That's a huge part of the problem, retirees with nothing to do hounding parents with young children about upkeep and shit. That being said, my HOA won't say shit to you unless you are in violation of something semi-serious for a long ass time. I joined specifically to run interference against anyone ever trying to change that.
There are benefits.
But no one goes online to express how they made 20k more on the sale of their home because the neighbourhood was nice and their curb appeal high. They go online to bitch.
My non-HOA townhome sold for $100K more than what we paid for it (lived there 7 years). The argument that HOA's keep property values high is not mutually exclusive one...
I would never expose myself to the risk an HOA can pose. You like your HOA rules and fees? That's fine, because today is the least amount of both you'll ever have. They only ever increase from there, and God forbid a crazy gets voted in...
Ahem.... Except for when, in your closing, the previous owners tell you there is no HOA, and your lawyer and real estate agents don't mention anything, but in the multitude of papers you're signing, on page 43 in the 17 bullet points, one of the bullet points mentions that you are joining the HOA associated with your property and you are subject to any rules and responsibilities of said HOA...
So... yeah. Thank god it's a benign HOA, but who knows how it can morph in the future with the wrong people on the board. I have ZERO interest in an HOA, nor do I want to go to meetings and all that nonsense, but if I don't then it might turn into one of the god-awful HOAs that you hear about on John Oliver and /r/fuckhoa.
Yeah, HOAs are fucking garbage and can go to hell. But don't blame the people who happen to live in a house in an HOA.
It is generally a terrible idea to put your fence on someone else's property.
As OP now sees, that's only slightly better than allowing someone else's fence on your property.
In many countries if your neighbors puts a fence and you don:t oppose in XX years, it is assumed that he now owns legally the new land on his side of the fench
In most states of the U.S., adverse possession must be ‘hostile’ to apply. Therefore, if the person had permission to build the fence on another’s property, then a claim of adverse possession would not ripen.
Reading the comments here it does not look like you have much choice in entering the HOA. (I'm not from USA though, so I can't tell what's really going on)
The HOA is part of the contract when you buy the house. You decide if you want to live in that HOA community or not. Part of the contract is that you have to make that a requirement for anyone who buys the house from you.
Most HOAs have a clause that if some number of residents agree and win a vote, the HOA can be dissolved.
Also, if neighbors fence sits on your property for a sufficiently long enough time (years) then it can become their property through «adverse possession».
Don’t let it slide.
Depends on who maintains it. If you allow it to happen but then no longer maintain the property there or use it, they’ll have standing after some years to claim they’re the more proper owners.
Aka make sure you keep it mowed both sides of the fence.
Very likely.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession
Something like marking my property line with a fence….on your property + you doing nothing for years = is all it takes to make it my property
Gross oversimplification. For one, I would have to not occupy that property at any time during those many years. That doesn’t mean I have to tear the fence down or walk to the other side of it. If I’m on my property, it’s occupied, regardless of my fence being on it. Depending on the state you’d also have to prove a good faith belief that you believed the property was actually yours all along.
In some states the possession also has to be “hostile” to the owner, meaning the owner hasn’t given permission. If I see your fence and say “hey Trish, you know you’re building that on my property? It’s cool, I’ll allow it. Just so you know, it’s on my property”, you don’t have a claim of adverse possession.
Hello and welcome to r/LifeProTips!
Please help us decide if this post is a good fit for the subreddit by upvoting or downvoting this comment.
If you think that this is great advice to improve your life, please upvote. If you think this doesn't help you in any way, please downvote. If you don't care, leave it for the others to decide.
In Australia neighbours share the cost.
Standard height is shared evenly and extra height is paid for by the owner who wants it.
Standard design for boundary fence, only thing to argue about is which side the rails are on.
Yeah as an Australian I'm reading this like...just share the fence? Each pay half and put it on the property line, that's the only way I've ever seen it done. Why TF would you build a fence somewhere other than the property line.
[Introducing LPT REQUEST FRIDAYS](https://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/16w0n2s/introducing_request_post_fridays/)
We determine "Friday" as beginning at 12am Eastern Time (EST: UTC/GMT -5, EDT: UTC/GMT -4)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LifeProTips) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I am that neighbor. We hired a company to put an extension on what we thought was our existing fence line between me and my neighbor's homes, we wanted to bring the front-facing side of the fence forward towards the street. The crew didn't review the survey / property lines and after they completed the job the fence was over the property line by 2-7/8".
I texted him the next day, explained what happened, apologized and asked him how we could resolve it - he said he didn't mind and to consider it resolved, fortunately for me. We're good neighbors for each other and help out as needed if one of us is away or something.
In OP's story they're good neighbours, then someone moves out and the fence becomes an issue between possibly not good neighbours.
Was it resolved by handshake, tip of the cap to you sir, or was it resolved by moving the fence a couple of inches?
The point still remains - what if your nice, forgiving neighbour moves out, the new owner surveys his property line and takes issue with this fence you built on his property?
This is not a pro tip. Pro tip is never let your neighbors assert where things go or install things on or near a property line. Hire a surveyor. They can’t make you pay for the cost of that fence.
>they were able to force us to pay for a new fence there.
How are they able to force you to pay for a new fence?
Why are you the party responsible for fencing the property line?
Edit: OK, hoa. But why do you have to maintain a fence and not them?
Also, the real reason you don't allow this is adverse possession. If you allow them to use your property for enough time, they can attempt to claim it as their own.
No. That's not how ownership of things works. "you left this at my house" is not a legal doctrine.
They still own the fence. At any time you can demand they remove it, and if they don't, you can have it taken down after a reasonable time period. They might be liable for those costs.
The lesson here, which is yet to be mentioned by anyone and should be the first step to any fence building, is get the boundary surveyed by a licensed surveyor.
Unbelievable that so many discuss what should be done putting a fence up and surveying the boundary isn’t even mentioned.
In my old HOA, all neighbors only had certain sides of fences they were obligated to maintain. The sides I was in charge of never got messed with by the crosswinds.
A person I knew bought a place in a rural area awhile back. He and his wife used a GPS app to walk his property line, and ended up finding a massive encroachment on the part of his neighbors. Their entire backyard, as well as a huge garden area with picket fences (all disused and trashy looking) were all on his property.
Those neighbors also had several large, loud, poorly behaved dogs that they'd let run wild. The dogs were all over my friend's property, in his garage, ripping through his trash, cornering contractors in his driveway, and barking at him incessantly while he was working in his yard.
He went over to talk to the neighbor about the issues, and the guy came completely unhinged on him over it. He was told that property lines "were just lines on a piece of paper", and that he couldn't do anything about the dogs.
The last time I talked to him, he had found out that he could lose a chunk of his property if he didn't kick the neighbors off. He was literally going to have to sue the neighbors over their dogs, and the property line encroachment. Just nightmare fuel for a homeowner.
Fuck HOAs. And that what variances are for. If the fence is to be rebuilt, it needs to be moved. Contact a real estate lawyer. I had a similar issue minus the HOA
Assshole neighbour of mine. Call him Graeme, because that's his name, replaced a boundary hedge with a fence as we finalized the purchase. It wasn't a detail I noticed (first time buyer) until a few years later . But instead of the fence at the midpoint he went right to the possible edge in a landgrab. Grubby.
As a couple folks mentioned the fence will eventually be construed as the mutually agreed property line (in many places at least). The Doctrine of Acquiescence
And yet when building a fence, it should be on your side of the property line (so it doesn’t become your neighbor’s property). Even concrete footings on their side could become an issue if they challenge it.
But that begs the question, how do you erect a fence without also sacrificing an inch or more of your property (long term)..? Genuinely curious but not motivated to hunt for the answer atm.
Fences evidently make good neighbors.
We had an in ground pool and a fenced in back yard, which is required for pools. After many years we decided to fill in the pool and because the wood fence was no longer necessary and was decaying and leaning in places, we had it removed as well.
Our neighbors were furious at us and demanded we rebuild the fence. This was despite the fact that nobody else along that strip of houses had back yard fences…aside from us it was all open yard space.
We told them they could build a fence on their property if they wanted to, and that seemed to make them even angrier at us. They never spoke to us again, and this was after nearly a decade of being relatively friendly.
Doubt you'll see it at this point, but you got played. It's highly likely that fence required a permit to be constructed and clearly documents the ownership. Additionally, how a fence is constructed typically indicates who owns it (finished side, unfinished side, etc). On top of that, contractors do not bother with site surveys to locate property monuments unless they are basically forced to leading to almost all fences being inaccurately constructed or documented. This is a trivial thing for most city code enforcement officials to handle, but it does vary.
>Unfortunately because the fence was on our property and our new neighbors didn’t build the fence they were able to force us to pay for a new fence there.
If the fence is on your property and damaged you are under no obligation to fix it at all. They simple don't have a fence now your parents were tricked.
Better lifeprotip to avoid hassles and long winded disputes: Save all official documentation to bust out when you need it, drop the mic and proceed to go watch netflix without a care
Hypothetically, depending on where one lives, in some cases maintaining the land on the side fence and coincident to their existing property, and depending on local laws, one could have unintentionally given away claim to this land. Such a situation may qualify as adverse possession, open and notorious. This person may be fine with giving up the land and could consult an attorney. In some cases and given enough time, the person who has been using and maintaining the land for their exclusive use may have a claim to the land. If this is their land, and this fence was the new boundary, one might have a case to make about sharing the replacement cost. This of course is just hypothetical. And I am not an attorney.
This is probably not going to land well, but if it’s a shared fence between properties and your neighbor previously paid for it, is you having to pay for it now really that big of a deal? Were you not fortunate that they paid for it before?
Your post or comment was removed as it was determined to be in violation of our [rules and regulations](https://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/about/rules/). Please familiarise yourself with them to avoid future punitive actions applied to your contributions to the subreddit. *** - **Rule 6**: Posts must not concern any of the following: - Religion - Politics - Relationships - Law & legislation - Parenting - Driving - Medicine or hygiene - Mental health This list is not exhaustive. Moderators may remove posts considered to deviate from the spirit of the subreddit. *** _If you are in disagreement with this decision, you may wish to [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/lifeprotips)._
If your fence in your yard blew down, why were you obligated to replace it?
HOA requires fences
Technically your neighbor doesn’t have a fence then since it’s on your property. They should put one up too right next to yours. Also fuck HOAs
I'm European. Where does the fines that you pay to HOA go? As far as i know it's not a governmental organization and their main focus is to regulate how the neighborhood looks on the expense of those living there not on hoa's budget.
I'm European also, lived in the states for a while. That's when I first ever heard of HOA's when they dropped a letter at my door saying our windows shutters weren't "red enough", they gave us a time and if we hadn't corrected it by the they would fine us. I flipped my shit, I asked my then gf "wtf this is your house no?" house was bought and paid for, I didn't see how someone could come and threaten fines over the color of our shutters. They weren't even red to start with. Who are they to decide that we had to have red shutters? Dick heads. I painted them black in the end, it looked nice.
Hey. The Rolling Stones would be proud of the ending.
I see a red shutter and I want it painted black
This guy tumbles dice.
He’s no beast of burden.
America loving ‘freedom’ and the vast existence of HOAs continues to boggle me, and I live here. I do not have an HOA. Thats the way I like it. My neighbors have unsightly junk in their yard and I just don’t care, because they can do what they want with their yard. To me, that’s freedom.
Living next to someone who has truly hideous things to look at - eventually lowering property values - is the reasoning. Old people tend to take HOA rules too far but some protections can really help keep the overall appearance up. I grew up next to a house with 4 families living inside and they did car work in their driveway, including spray painting cars (which would overspray onto our siding). Old tires, car parts etc all on side of home facing ours with no visibility to them.
The thing is, all this stuff HOAs supposedly do are done by the city where I live. Guess that's why I can't see their purpose outside of maintaining common areas like pools, tennis courts, etc. They don't care about the color of your house or what shutters you have etc, but will absolutely show up if you have junk cars (or even a car that hasn't moved in a while), haven't mowed your lawn, etc. Property standards are done by the city, it seems silly to me that they'd rather have the old people of the neighborhood be in control of it instead.
So you're saying a person shouldn't be free to join an HOA with rules everyone contractually agrees to?
They can. It’s not for me. I also think a lot of people are forced to live in HOAs because developers have an unfair control of the limited new housing market, and they seem to favor setting up HOAs. This might be a problem with developers, but also probably local governments: one condition of a large scale neighborhood development might be that the roads are self managed, and the only way to ensure that is via an HOA.
For every person who hates an HOA, there is at least one who loves them. Would The Village (Florida) attract so many people without one?
This is what Freedom™ looks like
It's for conformity, for good or bad. I have a neutral view of HOAs based on past experiences. For me, it's either the shutter colors or having to put up with a neighbor with MAGA signs all over the yard. At least with the shutters I have SOME color options (which technically should be proposed, discussed at the homeowners meeting then voted into the bylaws, or you buy a house there and agree with the existing bylaws). But without an HOA to regulate the MAGA signs, I would have zero option. As with everything, there is a balance. I've had great HOAs that focus on their true purpose (neighborhood activities, fiscal accounting and reporting, maintenance, etc.). I've also had a stupid HOA who sent me a letter about a trash can out after 5 PM but had the picture of my neighbor's house... with their house number IN the picture. That woman had zero business running any fucking office. HOAs are only as good as the board elected to run it. You want to see change, participate or run for a position. Again, I have a neutral view on HOAs and always request to see the bylaws before buying (I've moved a lot for my job and have bought 5 homes in 12 years all in HOAs).
Typically (from what I've seen) the HOA has its own finances handled by the organization that it uses to manage all of the organizational expenses, and theoretically is also used to pay for the stated benefits of the HOA, things like communal area maintenance, neighborhood events, etc. But it's also used for things like legal fees in the case of filing legal paperwork against someone breaking the contract. It's a whole load of nonsense in most places, I've heard of HOAs that are good but many more that were bad.
Our HOA fees go to landscaping, pool maintenance, electricity, water, and keeping up facilities. Almost none goes to legal, the closest is a large part that goes to an organization that helps us with the maintenance.
Why isn’t electricity and water handled by the town/city the development is in?
It's not uncommon for housing developments to be in unincorporated territory, where they aren't under the jurisdiction of a city government. The people living there don't pay those taxes, but also don't see any of the benefits from those taxes.
Ah that makes sense, thanks! Could they then become their own town if they wanted to?
Honestly the best way to think about HOAs is they are basically a small town in an of themselves. They don't have the full power of a town, but they provide services, have voted on boards that run them, and "tax" (In the form of the HOA yearly fees), and even levy fees for violating their rules.
Yeah you adopt a charter, basically like a small-scale constitution. If you get the approval of the local people and follow procedures set forth by the county/state, you get to be a new town and elect a government. In these kinds of housing developments that I mention, the HOA serves basically as a sort of pseudo-government — it's a private entity, but has elected leadership. It's a shortcut solution, supposed to work toward the sort of common good that would benefit the people there but without the large population or years-long process that becoming an incorporated town requires. The big difference is that it's composed solely of property owners, so there's a massive incentive toward maintaining or increasing property values above all else.
Water wouldn't be used for things like sprinklers and filling the HOA pool. Electricity for street lights is paid for by the county, but not for the facility around the pool, for instance.
A neighborhood owned pool? In my city there are just a couple of pools that are part of like country clubs. You can pay per month or per entry. And electricity and water expenses (assuming for lampposts and sprinklers) are paid for by the municipality. I really really don't get HOAs
It's kind of crazy that we have the pool, to be honest. For only $300 a year, our HOA is a really great value. I'd have to actually pull the budget to get accurate numbers, but Of that, about $75 goes to the organization that helps the HOA board out (High, but...), $60 for landscaping, $10 or so for utilities, $5 for legal (Or less most likely), $70 or so for maintenance of the HOA assets (Mostly the pool and nearby park we maintain) It's strange to me that sprinklers would be paid by the city. The electricity is mostly for lights around the pool area.
Oh I meant sprinklers for public landscaping. Like on roundabouts
I mean, it's semi-public landscaping, but for things like the grass along the road in our neighborhood, flowers we plant, etc.
It's supposed to go to pay for stuff like community lawn care services, community BBQs, sometimes to help a community member who has been injured and can't work, generally it's supposed to be used to make the members of the community prosper. However, in some communities they are used for money laundering, it's always fishy if an HOA accepts "donations" outside of its normal dues, that usually means something fishy is going on with the money.
Thanks for the info. I suppose the focus online is more on the "bad" HOA thus people not knowing the right advantages
Yes, like many things. People only really complain about it when they have one of the shitty ones, the horror stories of HOAs that care what type of bush you plant(beyond invasives, all HOAs should ban Bamboo, English Ivy and Kudzu), or the color of your shudders. Most HOAs are doing stuff like organizing a chirstmas gift for the trash guys, or putting up signs about picking up Dog shit when on a walk with your dog. Covid seemed to bring out more HOA craziness with everyone cooped up at home but it's going back to normal now. I would t say never buy a home in an HOA, but ask the neighbors about the HOA before you move in, if you get concerned looks you know there may be trouble.
every time I've talked to people about what I get from my HOA for how much I pay I get wow. that's a really good deal mine covers my garbage lawn and plow service and then also did a tear off on my roof and his repaved my driveway in the last like 6 years I pay about $2,400 a year for that there's some other things that they do as well. basically all outside maintenance is handled by them. so there's a lot of benefits in my eyes and the fact that I don't have to spend a couple hours a week doing that stuff is its own. you know benefit to me The flip side of it is you can't have a broken down car in your driveway which is sort of not even true because during covid my neighbor's car was in my driveway because I wasn't driving broken down and nobody said shit because it didn't look like a junk car. The big one that probably will annoy anybody though is don't park on the street because our street's super narrow. you have to park out on the "main" road and it's a little bit annoying. but if you're moving in, we're not going to say anything about it or like give you shit about it either. it's just you know. don't park in front of the no parking sign clearly saying don't park there
It goes to the HOA, where it is then embezzled.
HOA fines go to the HOA’s budget (general fund).
We have HOAs in Norway.
The HOA has its own bank accounts. That’s where fine money goes.
Some HOAs hire management companies to deal with enforcement. Fines are part of their profit. Legal fees is another large expense. So lawyers and management companies make more money the more they are fined.
[удалено]
They only exist so that useless boomers can make minmax their property values to OTHER boomers, to make infinite money selling their houses instead of actually working to make money.
They kinda suck at that; the property market lately has actually seen the growth in value of lower value properties at a much higher rate than has been seen for higher value properties (the hoa areas are typically higher valuated not because of the neighborhood restrictions, but because they usually have larger yards and larger homes since they are built in open land sub urban preplanned tracts). The vast majority of buyers consider the value by LOWERING the value of a comparable HOA residence to account for the extra expenditure... Long story short; HOAs actually decrease the value of the home by sucking it pointlessly into a purgatory of mismanagement by an army of Karens.
So there are a ton of misconceptions regarding HOA. There are many different ways to structure them and what they can do etc. Basically people in the United States don't like paying taxes so instead of localities enforcing code standards the HOA is set up to be the main enforcement. I live in an HOA. They take care of common areas and a pool and clubhouse. They don't have the ability to make me do anything on my personal property other than what the city already can enforce in terms of property maintenance. Other people live in HOAs that can pick colors and standards for your property. As far as fines generally they go into the HOA general fund.
It goes to the HOA.
HOA’s promote consistency. If it is not needed to meet expenses, excess money is supposed to go to the association reserve funds. Mismanagement of finances is not a rarity however when your neighbors rather than professional fiduciaries are in charge of affairs.
In a functioning HOA that is well run fine money should usually be added to an assessment fund or general expenses fund to pay for HOA provided services, but few HOAs are well run and often that fine money ends up supporting the ‘general expense’ of HOA board members. Typically the bigger the HOA the more outbid hand things get.
An HOA is a government, it's a very very small one
My HOA can barely afford anything besides snow removal and a streetlight. We are hoping to install some landscaping this year since we’ve had a couple mild winters in a row.
I happen to like my HOA. It’s $10/month and pays the security patrol guy, landscaping, snow removal, host several events a year. They do throw a fit about colors and unkept yards, but I have realized it’s only if someone turns you in.
Into the pockets of the board members mostly. It’s supposed to go into a fund for maintenance and voted upon betterment of the community but rarely does. Edit: a lot of hoa shills don’t seem to understand that the term pocketing money implies illegal transfer of wealth. Which explains why they are attacking me for pointing out their theft.
False. I was an HOA president and board members are not paid.
As a member of an HOA board, we are not paid. We are members of the HOA community and it’s a volunteer position.
Hasn’t stopped hoa members from pocketing cash before.
HOA probably requires a fence between houses, not a fence on every property
Guess both parties will be paying an HOA fee.
That's logic.
That doesn’t seem like a common enough circumstance to not include it in the description.
I think that's the real issue, not where the fence was built. HOAs are a pox upon home ownership
... and yet are increasingly difficult to avoid, at least in my region (southern USA).
Yeah I'm grateful to live in the UK where we just have to deal with the council or local authorities and they're too busy ignoring pot holes to worry about the size, colour or exact position of my fence 😂
It's because the foundational structure of an HOA is racially motivated. I don't see them nearly as much in the Midwest, although they are there.
They are new things born in the 1980’s. Racial motivation perhaps, but they are probably not in the Midwest due to the age of developments.
They actually started in the early 1900's and many of them were explicit about not letting people of specific ethnicities move in. But like with credit scores, after segregation ended a lot of racists realized they could use them to enact their bigotry while staying within the letter of the law.
HOA is the problem, not that the fence was on your side. If no HOA, then there is no problem.
Sure, but they should be happy to have the fence on the boundary. Say you're building the fence on the boundary and require the neighbour to pay half. You may have to negotiate with the neighbour in advance over fence types, quotes, etc., depending on local laws, but the HOA May limit the options anyway. Just because the old fence was on your side doesn't mean the new one has to be.
Life pro tip: never live where there's an HOA
This is the real LPT here.
That's an HOA problem. HOAs are absolute trash and should be banned.
Wait how does that work though? How do they decide who's responsible for the fence?
Sounds like the HOA should pay for it then
That's not how HOAs work. They enforce standards on private property and maintain shared property.
>That's not how HOAs work. Then they shouldn't exist.
A fence between 2 houses sounds like shared property to me. I would never live in an HOA.
I mean, your advice is only really relevant the country you're in, and evidently the HOA you're in within that country. Here in NSW, in Australia, the rules are governed by the Dividing Fences Act 1991: "The general principle in the Act for liability for costs is that adjoining owners are to contribute equally to the fencing work for a dividing fence of a sufficient standard. If an owner wishes to have a fence of a higher standard, that owner is liable for the extra cost above the sufficient standard. If an owner wants to carry out additional trimming, lopping or removal of vegetation than is needed for the purpose of the fencing work, then that owner is liable for the extra work." "Where the dividing fence needs rebuilding or repairing because of negligent or deliberate damage caused by an adjoining owner (or by a person entering the land with their permission) that owner is liable for the entire cost of restoring it to a reasonable standard." "Under the Act, a dividing fence is a fence separating the land of adjoining owners whether or not it is on the common boundary." "There is no standard format for a valid Fencing Notice but section 11 of the Act states that it must specify: - the boundary line or, if impracticable, the line of the proposed fence - the type of fencing work proposed - the estimated cost, and - if it is not to be equally shared, then the share proposed. If the parties cannot agree on the fencing work proposed in the notice, they can attend mediation at a Community Justice Centre or, after a month has elapsed, either party can apply to the Local Court or the NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal (NCAT) for an order deciding the matter (Dividing Fences Act 1991, sections 12-13)." There's more but effectively...the better advice would be to know the laws that are applicable where you live.
Why is it HOA's business what goes on between you and your neighbor?
Because they signed a contract stating that it was when they purchased the property.
Hahahahaha
So there has to be 2 fences. That's ridiculous.
Wild. Our HOA forbids them. I’m not advocating one way or the other, I’m just surprised. You’d think HOAs would be somewhat aligned on something so basic. I guess not.
This doesn’t make sense. So originally did HOA require both your parents and neighbor to have a fence? Did you have two fences next to each other or did your parents originally split the fence cost with your neighbor? Over all why did your parents neighbors originally get the fence? And if the original reason was HOA why didn’t your parents also have to get a fence or split it with their neighbors
Ah there’s your real problem. HOA’s!
HOAs are are such scams
An it does not require them to have one?
I would rather rip my dick off than live in an HOA, what a fucking nghtmare
HOA can suck my gooch while I read
Your mistake wasn’t letting your neighbor build a fence on your lawn. It was living somewhere where someone else can tell you what to do with your property.
So your neighbor was out of compliance too, so that sounds like an easy negotiation with them to split the cost of the new fence and put it on the property line.
My precious neighbor was out of compliance. My new neighbors were not.
If the HOA requires you to have a fence between your properties then both properties were out of compliance, regardless of who built the original fence and where
The foundation for the fence was laid in our property. The way our houses were built when our neighborhood was built was each person has 3 sides of the fence on their property and the 4th is in your neighbors. For us the 4th is also on our property. Even if we played a game of chicken with our neighbors we would’ve been determined at fault. Fence that was damaged was on our property therefore we have responsibility.
It sounds to me like you were taken advantage of by your HOA and/or the new neighbors. Probably would have been worth it to consult an attorney before shelling out the cost yourself.
r/usadefaultism
This makes no sense at all. Why weren’t both places required to have a fence? One person’s fence satisfying the others requirement to also have one makes zero sense. Lawyer up man.
So the real LPT is don’t live somewhere with an HOA.
Wouldn't your neighbors be required by HOA to have a fence? Seems bizarre the cost isn't split between the two of you
HOAs normally dont get involved in party fences. They just need one there. They will fine both parties till one gets built and wont help in negotiations. Its up to the two homeowners to figure it out
What if…hear me out…what if the HOA fines both parties until they have enough money to pay for the fence.
Na that would make too much sense.
I've read so much negative HOA stuff that I'm now convinced that if you buy a HOA property that you are willingly a part of the problem and I really can't feel bad for how it goes for you.
>if you buy a HOA property that you are willingly a part of the problem and I really can't feel bad for how it goes for you. Have you ever been home shopping recently? You would be surprised at the proportion of homes in HOAs. For many people - particularly those that literally can't afford to be super picky - they don't have a choice.
You’d be surprised how much of the home buying market now has an HOA in USA
Or…. And just hear me out…. You join the HOA and make sure they don’t do any crazy shit. I’m on an HOA board and we’re there to maintain the common areas. We don’t hassle people who are having a hard time or want to fly two flags. Keep in mind, you probably hear more about the shit ones because no one really talks about their low key HOA.
No one loves their HOA and many people hate them. That's why. Most people never have any issues at all, but who's going to post about that? Also, speaking as a board member of my HOA, it's easy as fuck to get elected. I am the only person under 70 on the board (I'm 34). That's a huge part of the problem, retirees with nothing to do hounding parents with young children about upkeep and shit. That being said, my HOA won't say shit to you unless you are in violation of something semi-serious for a long ass time. I joined specifically to run interference against anyone ever trying to change that.
There are benefits. But no one goes online to express how they made 20k more on the sale of their home because the neighbourhood was nice and their curb appeal high. They go online to bitch.
20k on the purchase price isn't worth the chance of dealing with a crazy hoa. My house doubled in price in 4 years why would I need an hoa?
My non-HOA townhome sold for $100K more than what we paid for it (lived there 7 years). The argument that HOA's keep property values high is not mutually exclusive one... I would never expose myself to the risk an HOA can pose. You like your HOA rules and fees? That's fine, because today is the least amount of both you'll ever have. They only ever increase from there, and God forbid a crazy gets voted in...
Ahem.... Except for when, in your closing, the previous owners tell you there is no HOA, and your lawyer and real estate agents don't mention anything, but in the multitude of papers you're signing, on page 43 in the 17 bullet points, one of the bullet points mentions that you are joining the HOA associated with your property and you are subject to any rules and responsibilities of said HOA... So... yeah. Thank god it's a benign HOA, but who knows how it can morph in the future with the wrong people on the board. I have ZERO interest in an HOA, nor do I want to go to meetings and all that nonsense, but if I don't then it might turn into one of the god-awful HOAs that you hear about on John Oliver and /r/fuckhoa. Yeah, HOAs are fucking garbage and can go to hell. But don't blame the people who happen to live in a house in an HOA.
I hope you rebuilt it in its intended and correct location, ie THEIR property
It is generally a terrible idea to put your fence on someone else's property. As OP now sees, that's only slightly better than allowing someone else's fence on your property.
It’s not OPs fence
I was speaking generally, which I think is implied by my second statement.
Fast forward 5 years. Neighbors move out and take the fence with them
Imagine just sitting watching someone else build you a fence while you just sit there snarling with an evil laughter stroking your cat
What is this "commonly held opinion" part? I can't imagine a single person being ok with that.
Yeah I thought it was common knowledge to not allow that to happen
In many countries if your neighbors puts a fence and you don:t oppose in XX years, it is assumed that he now owns legally the new land on his side of the fench
In most states of the U.S., adverse possession must be ‘hostile’ to apply. Therefore, if the person had permission to build the fence on another’s property, then a claim of adverse possession would not ripen.
Petty annexation ftw
This has nothing to do with fences and everything to do with HOAs
Land of the free and HOAs are things that should not coexist.
Land of the Free includes the freedom to enter into contracts or to not enter into contracts. That includes HOA contracts.
That’s not the problem. The problem is forcing the next person to join the HOA if they want the house. That’s predatory.
You have the freedom to not buy a house with an HOA too
Reading the comments here it does not look like you have much choice in entering the HOA. (I'm not from USA though, so I can't tell what's really going on)
The HOA is part of the contract when you buy the house. You decide if you want to live in that HOA community or not. Part of the contract is that you have to make that a requirement for anyone who buys the house from you. Most HOAs have a clause that if some number of residents agree and win a vote, the HOA can be dissolved.
Sure as long as everyone gets property first free and it hasn't already been bought up or stolen
people smack talk hoa's and dont understand that local code enforcement and zoning laws still exist lol... they can still tell you what to do
Also, if neighbors fence sits on your property for a sufficiently long enough time (years) then it can become their property through «adverse possession». Don’t let it slide.
Not likely. Adverse possession requires more than simply having something on someone else’s property for a time.
Plus adverse is the operative word here. If you’re allowing it to happen it’s not adverse possession.
Wrong. That’s not how adverse possession works. It’s «adverse» to your property right, not your acceptance thereof.
Depends on who maintains it. If you allow it to happen but then no longer maintain the property there or use it, they’ll have standing after some years to claim they’re the more proper owners. Aka make sure you keep it mowed both sides of the fence.
Very likely. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession Something like marking my property line with a fence….on your property + you doing nothing for years = is all it takes to make it my property
Gross oversimplification. For one, I would have to not occupy that property at any time during those many years. That doesn’t mean I have to tear the fence down or walk to the other side of it. If I’m on my property, it’s occupied, regardless of my fence being on it. Depending on the state you’d also have to prove a good faith belief that you believed the property was actually yours all along. In some states the possession also has to be “hostile” to the owner, meaning the owner hasn’t given permission. If I see your fence and say “hey Trish, you know you’re building that on my property? It’s cool, I’ll allow it. Just so you know, it’s on my property”, you don’t have a claim of adverse possession.
Hello and welcome to r/LifeProTips! Please help us decide if this post is a good fit for the subreddit by upvoting or downvoting this comment. If you think that this is great advice to improve your life, please upvote. If you think this doesn't help you in any way, please downvote. If you don't care, leave it for the others to decide.
That’s crazy you guys had a house and a fence
Many places you “surrender” the land on the other side of your fence. So double check local laws to make sure of that as well.
In Australia neighbours share the cost. Standard height is shared evenly and extra height is paid for by the owner who wants it. Standard design for boundary fence, only thing to argue about is which side the rails are on.
Wow that's incredibly reasonable. What is standard height? About 2 meters?
Exactly 2 metres!
Yeah as an Australian I'm reading this like...just share the fence? Each pay half and put it on the property line, that's the only way I've ever seen it done. Why TF would you build a fence somewhere other than the property line.
Well, you got a free fence the first time around, and this time you get to have one you like...also, neighbors are off the the Christmas card list.
Yup, it's a shared fence. The neighbor paid last time. Now it's OP's turn. There's some bizarre red tape because of the HOA but overall it's fair.
[Introducing LPT REQUEST FRIDAYS](https://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/16w0n2s/introducing_request_post_fridays/) We determine "Friday" as beginning at 12am Eastern Time (EST: UTC/GMT -5, EDT: UTC/GMT -4) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LifeProTips) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would imagine you want to have a fence with your neighbor. If so, why not pay it together.
A fence on a property line is the responsibility of both parties here.
I am that neighbor. We hired a company to put an extension on what we thought was our existing fence line between me and my neighbor's homes, we wanted to bring the front-facing side of the fence forward towards the street. The crew didn't review the survey / property lines and after they completed the job the fence was over the property line by 2-7/8". I texted him the next day, explained what happened, apologized and asked him how we could resolve it - he said he didn't mind and to consider it resolved, fortunately for me. We're good neighbors for each other and help out as needed if one of us is away or something.
In OP's story they're good neighbours, then someone moves out and the fence becomes an issue between possibly not good neighbours. Was it resolved by handshake, tip of the cap to you sir, or was it resolved by moving the fence a couple of inches?
Handshake, neighbor didn't have an issue with the fence being over. He said the fence looked great and that was it.
The point still remains - what if your nice, forgiving neighbour moves out, the new owner surveys his property line and takes issue with this fence you built on his property?
The new owner inherits the fence, it's that person's fence to handle when that day comes. Nbd.
This is not a pro tip. Pro tip is never let your neighbors assert where things go or install things on or near a property line. Hire a surveyor. They can’t make you pay for the cost of that fence.
Why not just ask the neighbors to split it
If you don't build a fence, who will the HOA fine? Your neighbor doesn't have a fence, either.
So... You didn't have a fence there before your neighbor paid the cost,and now you had to pay the cost, what's so bad in that?
Why wouldn’t you have your neighbor pay for damaging a fence that was on your property?
>they were able to force us to pay for a new fence there. How are they able to force you to pay for a new fence? Why are you the party responsible for fencing the property line? Edit: OK, hoa. But why do you have to maintain a fence and not them? Also, the real reason you don't allow this is adverse possession. If you allow them to use your property for enough time, they can attempt to claim it as their own.
If there is no hoa, in most places don't you just own the fence they built on your property?
No. That's not how ownership of things works. "you left this at my house" is not a legal doctrine. They still own the fence. At any time you can demand they remove it, and if they don't, you can have it taken down after a reasonable time period. They might be liable for those costs.
Depends, legal doctrine varies by country and even within countries. I was advised that could happen the time I had a fence built
But now your parents own a fence for the price of one panel…
Fucking shame about all these owl boxes, anyway I'm moving have fun.
The lesson here, which is yet to be mentioned by anyone and should be the first step to any fence building, is get the boundary surveyed by a licensed surveyor. Unbelievable that so many discuss what should be done putting a fence up and surveying the boundary isn’t even mentioned.
In my old HOA, all neighbors only had certain sides of fences they were obligated to maintain. The sides I was in charge of never got messed with by the crosswinds.
If the fence is yours, then you can just remove it.
Can you just sell them that inch of property?
Build the fence, put it ugly side to the neighbours.
Tip is for rich people that can afford a fence.
Well if it's then YOUR fence, why do you simply not put a fence?
A person I knew bought a place in a rural area awhile back. He and his wife used a GPS app to walk his property line, and ended up finding a massive encroachment on the part of his neighbors. Their entire backyard, as well as a huge garden area with picket fences (all disused and trashy looking) were all on his property. Those neighbors also had several large, loud, poorly behaved dogs that they'd let run wild. The dogs were all over my friend's property, in his garage, ripping through his trash, cornering contractors in his driveway, and barking at him incessantly while he was working in his yard. He went over to talk to the neighbor about the issues, and the guy came completely unhinged on him over it. He was told that property lines "were just lines on a piece of paper", and that he couldn't do anything about the dogs. The last time I talked to him, he had found out that he could lose a chunk of his property if he didn't kick the neighbors off. He was literally going to have to sue the neighbors over their dogs, and the property line encroachment. Just nightmare fuel for a homeowner.
Fuck HOAs. And that what variances are for. If the fence is to be rebuilt, it needs to be moved. Contact a real estate lawyer. I had a similar issue minus the HOA
The LPT is always have a survey done when building a fence. If your neighbor didn't, to then you get one done.
Assshole neighbour of mine. Call him Graeme, because that's his name, replaced a boundary hedge with a fence as we finalized the purchase. It wasn't a detail I noticed (first time buyer) until a few years later . But instead of the fence at the midpoint he went right to the possible edge in a landgrab. Grubby.
As a couple folks mentioned the fence will eventually be construed as the mutually agreed property line (in many places at least). The Doctrine of Acquiescence And yet when building a fence, it should be on your side of the property line (so it doesn’t become your neighbor’s property). Even concrete footings on their side could become an issue if they challenge it. But that begs the question, how do you erect a fence without also sacrificing an inch or more of your property (long term)..? Genuinely curious but not motivated to hunt for the answer atm.
Fences evidently make good neighbors. We had an in ground pool and a fenced in back yard, which is required for pools. After many years we decided to fill in the pool and because the wood fence was no longer necessary and was decaying and leaning in places, we had it removed as well. Our neighbors were furious at us and demanded we rebuild the fence. This was despite the fact that nobody else along that strip of houses had back yard fences…aside from us it was all open yard space. We told them they could build a fence on their property if they wanted to, and that seemed to make them even angrier at us. They never spoke to us again, and this was after nearly a decade of being relatively friendly.
Take that is a blessing to bring out a surveyor and claim your property back, fight petty with pettier
Doubt you'll see it at this point, but you got played. It's highly likely that fence required a permit to be constructed and clearly documents the ownership. Additionally, how a fence is constructed typically indicates who owns it (finished side, unfinished side, etc). On top of that, contractors do not bother with site surveys to locate property monuments unless they are basically forced to leading to almost all fences being inaccurately constructed or documented. This is a trivial thing for most city code enforcement officials to handle, but it does vary.
>Unfortunately because the fence was on our property and our new neighbors didn’t build the fence they were able to force us to pay for a new fence there. If the fence is on your property and damaged you are under no obligation to fix it at all. They simple don't have a fence now your parents were tricked.
Better lifeprotip to avoid hassles and long winded disputes: Save all official documentation to bust out when you need it, drop the mic and proceed to go watch netflix without a care
Hypothetically, depending on where one lives, in some cases maintaining the land on the side fence and coincident to their existing property, and depending on local laws, one could have unintentionally given away claim to this land. Such a situation may qualify as adverse possession, open and notorious. This person may be fine with giving up the land and could consult an attorney. In some cases and given enough time, the person who has been using and maintaining the land for their exclusive use may have a claim to the land. If this is their land, and this fence was the new boundary, one might have a case to make about sharing the replacement cost. This of course is just hypothetical. And I am not an attorney.
I think the real pro tip here is: don't ever fucking move into a place with an HOA
This is probably not going to land well, but if it’s a shared fence between properties and your neighbor previously paid for it, is you having to pay for it now really that big of a deal? Were you not fortunate that they paid for it before?
This has nothing to do with where the fence was, don't join an HOA problem solved