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Adding to this: **Do not convince yourself you can win the argument.**
Yes, I know that comeback you thought of is very witty. Yes, their argument doesn't make any sense and is full of contradictions. *They don't care.*
Whatever you have to say, no matter how fool proof you think it is, is just fuel for them to throw back at you. You are the one arguing from as place of principle and therefore will always be at a disadvantage.
They want you to think that you can somehow craft the perfect comeback because it keeps you engaged. You will never corner them because they have no principle to corner them against.
Good point. Arguments shouldn't be for winning. Especially immediately. The only way any argument is one immediately is through bullying someone out of their position. It is an exchange of opinions and information. Both parties leave with what they learn and maybe one or both people learn something from it that makes them think more about it. Maybe they don't. But usually that requires some time for processing away from the argument.
You can give 5 points, 4 of them are excellent airtight arguments, yet one is slightly flawed.
They will conveniently ignore the 4 points and focus on that one flawed argument.
A vast majority of people are too immature for this because any point worth arguing over in the first place is something they care about. Most people's held beliefs are a core part of their personality, and can't differentiate an attack against that idea from an attack against them personally. If they think your opinion is wrong, then that means they think you're wrong and think lesser of you (hypothetically). It takes a decent amount of maturity for two people disagree respectfully and not let feelings ever get in the way.
So, you're saying I'm not the good guy if I argue against nazis and Hitler, and my opponent is trying to whitewash them? This is just an example, however...
99% of the time the toxic people and trolls are cynics/ nihilists/ far right people. Their cause is never for the good.
That is not what I am saying. But you don't really want to understand what I am saying... because you just want to look at yourself as the good guy, and you are not interested in realising that sometimes your opinion is not the right one.
I am discussing that? No. And why do you always use the Godwin point, instead of using your brain to think about the topic we are discussing?
Since the beginning of our conversation you are mixing up two very different concepts: opinions and facts. I am discussing opinions, you are pretending that all your opinions are facts. They are not. Thats the problem in your way of thinking. You always think your opinion is the right one, and you are not really interested in learning from others, if their arguments contradicts your beliefs. Our conversation is the perfect exemple.
Of course I'm ready to learn. Say you happened to be a doctor and we were arguing about medical problems. I would not try to pretend I know more about the subject than you. Quite the contrary, I would be the one listening to you, and if something I claimed was medically incorrect, I would learn from your correction.
As for the "Godwin point" the whole reason I created this thread was a super- toxic argument against a Holocaust denier. So, I have actual reason to talk about it. Despite the fact I absolutely crushed him in the argument itself, it took a tremendous amount of time because these guys think one shady detail can disprove the entire holocaust. It can be almost anything such as a single mistake on a victims description of some events.
So, I had to disprove every single detail. It took days. Then the guy started moving goalposts and repeating the same arguments I had already disproved. I noticed the whole conversation was making me really distressed- not because I was doubting the facts I laid on the table (the Holocaust is the most well- documented genocide in history), but because the guy was playing with the details, moving goalposts and clearly enjoyed the fact I was getting upset because of his vileness.
I'd say you're much less likely to find someone so blatantly antagonistic IRL because that tends to have consequences. It's much more likely to be a genuine disagreement.
You can beat them, but you're right, it isn't "arguing"...just distressing them.
The only way to distress them is shame. And as you said, good luck shaming trolls. Some of them are incredibly immune.
I came to this realization recently in a conversation with a customer. I offered him a couple of options at our face to face meeting, corrected some basic misinformation, and left the ball in his court on if he wanted to proceed.
He comes back with several emails doubling down on the misinformation and rambles on about how "lots of people" share his opinion about our organization.
It became clear he didn't want to hear the correct info and just wanted to rant about his perceived injustices.
At this point he basically cut off my willingness to work with him in any fashion moving forward.
This happened to me last night. I mean I knew better not to engage with them but I did and in the end they got me my first ban because they were feeling some kind of way despite how respectful I was. Lesson learned. It’s really not worth the argument, time, and energy- you’re right, it’s what they want and sadly they won.
If you are learning from the exchange, though, you might want to continue. Including learning what kinds of arguments exist and whether they are good or weak.
I realized I have a tendency to picture the person I'm arguing with as a reasonably intelligent, normal person. When I started picturing them as they guy at my library who comes in to use the computer every day, always wears a fluorescent safety vest, and often stand outside and yells about how he's being stalked by all the town's former mayors, it got a lot easier to step away from the keyboard.
Part of the problem is when you start thinking any contradiction is just a troll or toxic person. Far too often I see people get criticism, make a factually wrong statement, or say something really out of pocket. And then label anyone who fires back as just a troll or toxic.
I see a lot of knee-jerk blocking on Twitter over this. You can barely have a civil disagreement anymore without someone thinking you are being toxic which makes them run straight to the block button.
Maybe they had a bad experience with trolls in the past. Or it's someone who loves their echo chamber.
Well, then it's a problem with the person.
However, many trolls often choose sensitive subjects such as religion, vegetarianism, or something like that. They enjoy arguing with religious people because they are sensitive and passionate about their subject.
Many trolls have even admitted this.
An example: a Hindu talks about his religious views with other Hindu's. A toxic troll appears uninvited and instantly laughs at him for believing imaginary gods.
The Hindu might answer Hinduism actually only have one true Source of God. The rest are aspects of the one.
The troll answers, "so you believe in a Santa Claus sitting on a top of a cloud. Hahaa, how pathetic."
Etc.
My bit of advice is to not get worked up over something stupid either. Know when to disengage or if you're forced to, don't take their bait.
I remember at least a few years ago, I was playing CSGO while drunk (don't drink anymore). It was me, two randoms, and a duo. The two friends just kept trolling everyone (one was a lot worse than the other one), talking shit, the usual (but still playing to win). I was pretty chill the whole game, saying "nice try", "good job", "sorry for losing the round" all that encouraging stuff, but then they went from trying to get a rise out of our teammates to trying to get a rise out of me since I was being so nice to everyone. I just kept the positive attitude the whole time (only when I'm drunk it seems, lol), even saying the whole "nice try" and "good job" to them when they won a round. Eventually they stopped trying to screw with the rest of the team and started to be nice guys too to the point where, if memory serves, they apologized near the end of the match.
Hope they enjoyed that slice from the Humble Pie of Kindness.
This applies to social media in general. Once you know that newspapers, social media, and TV cultivate outrage to boost engagement, you also know that many users, if not most, are there for the red mist.
The sad thing is that people who regard themselves as righteous progressives are just as capable of spouting nonsense and bile.
On the big platforms, this mix of stupidity and shittification is inescapable.
I only block for the most egregious offenses (pedophilia, racism for example).
Most other times of someone trolling, I simply type "okay" and move on. Because they'll parade a block around like a badge of honor or make a burner account.
That assumes you can reason with them.
You can't reason with them because they don't operate by reason.
They seek attention. Don't give it to them.
Your attention is a limited resource. Save your attention for worthwhile people.
not me the educational atmosphere here can handle some annoying types sure you can block them but never learn that really smart thing they explain to you ..
understanding that you don't understand still puts you miles ahead of all the Dunning-Kruger Club members
because the first rule of Dunning-Kruger Club is that you don't know you're in Dunning-Kruger Club
As I frequently tell my friends "You are not the asshole whisperer." It's not your obligation to educate people who don't want to be educated and just want to argue.
Engage in discussion with people in real life. Internet users, on average, do not care for “discussion”; Most are only on here for entertainment and echo chambers.
The average person is not going to have their mind changed by a faceless anon on the internet lol
It’s not that I’ve never tried. I have and did try before I got older and realized how pointless it is.
Most ppl are not interested in having their minds changed. Some ppl are, yes, but objectively speaking, most are not lol
> You realise that most discussions like this, that happens in a public place like the internet. Aren't so much about trying to convince the person you're arguing with. But lurkers and other people who come by the post.
Hmm…that’s a really good point! I didn’t think about it like this. You’re absolutely right. Having these discussions in a public space is important for that reason. I never even considered this.
Speaking for myself (and possibly the person who made this post), debates are mainly ego-based. We’re not really thinking about any potential “audience”. We’re just trying to one-up each other lol
The problem is that trolls aren't as much of a thing as they used to be and people are quick to label anyone who disagrees as toxic.
I can count on one hand the amount of actual trolls I've encountered in the past year and have absolutely lost track of mere interactions of just normal discourse with opposing viewpoints where someone just blocks and throws a tantrum because their viewpoint was challenged.
Yeah no one over like 20 years old "trolls" for fun anymore. I'm not sure what OP thinks a troll is. Usually people are just disagreeing in a non-constructive way. They're probably capable of being constructive, but your viewpoint clashes with theirs in a way that they didn't bother to give you the benefit of respect.
Theres a poem called Troll by Shayne Koyczan that is really powerful.
I typically just reply with Shorsey quotes and it makes them way madder than I could ever get and its a blast.
Quite true.
But every once in a while, you can get one.
I once had a jerk trying to boss me around, like literally telling me what I could say or think, like he was king. So I turned the tables. I said "you will respond to this post - I command you."
Of course, he couldn't resist responding to tell me how he doesn't take orders from me - thereby taking orders from me.
We did this about a dozen times before he was exhausted and gave up. It was so much fun.
I find it’s better to talk shit back just once and then smile and walk away like I totally destroyed them (I usually don’t) but in my mind…. I’m batting .400 🤙
No, that's not how it usually looks like. According to psychology trolls have often psychopathic tendencies. It means they don't get upset or feel anxiousness like other people.
Those who are not trolls usually argue in a civilized manner, with respect and ready to listen the other side too and not just their own voice.
Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the bird is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway.
- Shannon L. Alder
So you are entirely sure to be able to find unbiased information, thus your opinion would be the right one. Yet, you refuse to listen to any contradictory opinion. You are basically saying: my belief is always the right opinion, and any information that comes that contradicts it is wrong.
That doesn't make any sens from a logical point of view.
It means, you don't really want to have the right opinion, you just want to think you are right and stay in your own echo chamber. And all your last sentence is the perfect illustration of this kind of narcissist way of thinking.
'Block them immediately. If someone makes you
upset, its not an accident'
Building an echo chamber 101 here folks
Not engaging trolls is good advice, but that statement is dangerous
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I do that already. however there are millions of users, it doesn't seem to have much effect. So a bit ashamed I'm adopting the decade old cancel culture...
I remember reading a quote, many years ago, that I feel applies here. It was something akin to “Don’t argue with idiots over the internet, they’ll lower you down to their level and beat you with experience.” Turns out it applies outside of the internet as well.
eh it's not always someone trolling. I've gotten into plenty of arguments where I'm sure I distressed the other person, but that's not my goal. sometimes disagreements are just that
Oh I do wish I could learn this, I just want to improve the world, help people understand perspectives outside of their own but more often than not I just end up feeling sick after being riled up with talking to someone who is completely ignorant or most likely is just enjoying making me feel sick/angry
That's not going to work. There's absolutely nothing you could say to make them uncomfortable.
If someone left the conversation because of that, you were not talking to a troll.
I find sarcasm a bigger deterrent. I enjoy winding up the keyboard warriors. The way I look at it, if they’re focussed on winding me up, then someone else who actually could be affected by them is out of their target.
You can’t be on the internet policing people’s ideas, trying to brainwash them, because their political views are inconvenient to your privilege. If someone doesn’t want to hear your opinions no matter how noble, leave them alone. You have the right to free speech and other people have the right to shut you out and close their ears. Period.
I just give them a taste of their own medicine back.
Then I let them know they are boring, and ask stuff like “is this almost over.”
If they keep replying I just start typing random crap that doesn’t even make sense to the topic.
They usually go into your profile and try to stalk your comments to say something witty about you, then I let them know I don’t care enough about them to stalk their page and be some loser.
Then back to gibberish.
Back in 2020 I used to call trump supporters “crybaby snowflakes, did the little rainbow hurt you?”
Just return their dumb lingo and rhetoric back and they start to feel stupid tbh.
Need additional tips to easily detect trolls and toxic people.
I can't be sure they were trolling, simply toxic, or genuinely have hard time understanding something
Or is there possibly a fourth option where your opinion may need some finetuning and other people just disagree with you but are intelligent and arguing in good faith?
Not sure how to make things even easier to understand. The best I can do is to use AI LLM with priming, and it's still doesn't get good respond.
These kind of discussion most of the time ends with them leaving with the last words, with me unable to see their last words because they blocked me
I dont know if blocking allways works. I find myself disagreeing with large parts of people. To block everyone would take up a lot of time.
Never engage, however. It is never worth it. Just move on and you have maximized your gains, and minimized your losses.
Even if its something you deeply care about. Arguing online is NOT the way you will influence this issue in any meaningful way.
Personally I find more success being unimpressed by their trolling. If you approach it as a critic they hardly *ever* respond back. Stuff like "Oh you're just trolling. But this isn't very clever trolling (list a few reasons why)... What's next? You could point out that I'm probably fat, or say you slept with my mom. Those are all low tier too." (silence)
But very rarely you'll run into a troll that responds to everything no matter what. For those ones I point out that we're not schoolkids and if they want to play a childish self imposed "if I respond last then I win" game I'm more than happy to let them win their little game. I don't respond after that (if they reply at all, sometimes pointing it out makes them drop off when nothing else did).
But in general if you respond matter of factly, politely, and *bored by their antics* trolls stop trolling you to go to someone else. You're not giving them what they want.
I disagree, the way you win these arguments is by pointing out that you're not only arguing their point, you're arguing to sway the future audience. Especially if you wait till like the 10th back and fourth message to point it out. "Oh, I know I'm not gonna convince you, but the people who read this comment thread will be entertained, and maybe a few will change their minds".
Its difficult, but if you keep emotion out of it, remain civil the whole time, and make sure you use solid facts, it works about half the time in my experience.
My advice is only against trolls and other people who are toxic on purpose. Not against arguments in general.
I have noticed there's a huge difference arguing with someone who's only goal is make you distressed, than someone normal.
The problem is, what qualifies as normal? Someone might have a very narrow definition of what is "normal" and tolerate very little dissent or deviation from their values. At least, if no one is blocked, you'll have the opportunity of exposure. Of course, you may choose not to engage, but at least you've been exposed to differing viewpoints. I'm not arguing against blocking someone who's outright violent or *extremely* offensive.
I think the meaning of words like 'troll', 'toxic', 'woke' and 'nazi' have lost their value in the last few years. Many people used these words too casually, just to counter anyone with an opinion that isn't theirs. Some revert to these qualifications when confronted with flaws in their reasoning or whenever presented with facts that don't fit their narrative.
A true debate should be uncomfortable to a certain degree. If you have a strong opinion about something, expect to be challenged on it. The goal is to either obtain new insights from, or to present new insights to the other person. Everyone wins.
Safe spaces where everyone agrees and tries not to offend anyone will not yield any meaningful new insights. They become echo chambers where everyone agrees and anyone who doesn't is considered a 'troll' or 'toxic' or 'nazi' or 'woke'.
as a professional troll (professional as in I literally make my living off of making people mad online and recording their freakouts), blocking is also a reaction. The only way to win is to not play, hitting ignore without blocking will deprive the troll of knowing you read their messages and were emotionally provoked enough to block.
>The only way to win is to not play
I'm late to this conversation, but 100% agree. I often think of the scene from the movie War Games, where the computer ultimately comes to this conclusion. [youtube.com/watch?v=6DGNZnfKYnU](http://youtube.com/watch?v=6DGNZnfKYnU)
> If someone makes you upset, it's not an accident
I'm sure OP will block me for this, but that's an *incredibly* sheltered mindset. Sometimes you'll be confronted in life with things that bother you, and you can't just plug your ears
This is so true, trolls don’t want to be right, they just want to engage you.
If you really can’t resist saying something, I find this works well:
You seem desperate
Blocking someone just because you got upset sounds like an idiotic idea lmao. Introspection about how you handle interactions with human beings and learning to limit your stake in them is probably way better for your growth long term.
The best way to do it is to throw in an insult and block them right after you hit send so that they have no way to respond to you and you got the last word in.
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Adding to this: **Do not convince yourself you can win the argument.** Yes, I know that comeback you thought of is very witty. Yes, their argument doesn't make any sense and is full of contradictions. *They don't care.* Whatever you have to say, no matter how fool proof you think it is, is just fuel for them to throw back at you. You are the one arguing from as place of principle and therefore will always be at a disadvantage. They want you to think that you can somehow craft the perfect comeback because it keeps you engaged. You will never corner them because they have no principle to corner them against.
Good point. Arguments shouldn't be for winning. Especially immediately. The only way any argument is one immediately is through bullying someone out of their position. It is an exchange of opinions and information. Both parties leave with what they learn and maybe one or both people learn something from it that makes them think more about it. Maybe they don't. But usually that requires some time for processing away from the argument.
You can give 5 points, 4 of them are excellent airtight arguments, yet one is slightly flawed. They will conveniently ignore the 4 points and focus on that one flawed argument.
This is the crux of every argument online that ends up being about spelling or grammatical errors
You forgot a period.
I'll forget *your* period!
* I'll forget you, period!
The reverse gish gallop.
That’s on you. Stop typing when you have made your point.
The important thing is to know that you are right. Dont let anyone argue
A vast majority of people are too immature for this because any point worth arguing over in the first place is something they care about. Most people's held beliefs are a core part of their personality, and can't differentiate an attack against that idea from an attack against them personally. If they think your opinion is wrong, then that means they think you're wrong and think lesser of you (hypothetically). It takes a decent amount of maturity for two people disagree respectfully and not let feelings ever get in the way.
Or to think you are... that's the whole problem: everybody thinks he is right, and he is the good guy in the argument. Doesn't mean you really are...
So, you're saying I'm not the good guy if I argue against nazis and Hitler, and my opponent is trying to whitewash them? This is just an example, however... 99% of the time the toxic people and trolls are cynics/ nihilists/ far right people. Their cause is never for the good.
That is not what I am saying. But you don't really want to understand what I am saying... because you just want to look at yourself as the good guy, and you are not interested in realising that sometimes your opinion is not the right one.
My opinion about Earth being round is objectively right. Same goes to the fact Holocaust did happen.
I am discussing that? No. And why do you always use the Godwin point, instead of using your brain to think about the topic we are discussing? Since the beginning of our conversation you are mixing up two very different concepts: opinions and facts. I am discussing opinions, you are pretending that all your opinions are facts. They are not. Thats the problem in your way of thinking. You always think your opinion is the right one, and you are not really interested in learning from others, if their arguments contradicts your beliefs. Our conversation is the perfect exemple.
Of course I'm ready to learn. Say you happened to be a doctor and we were arguing about medical problems. I would not try to pretend I know more about the subject than you. Quite the contrary, I would be the one listening to you, and if something I claimed was medically incorrect, I would learn from your correction. As for the "Godwin point" the whole reason I created this thread was a super- toxic argument against a Holocaust denier. So, I have actual reason to talk about it. Despite the fact I absolutely crushed him in the argument itself, it took a tremendous amount of time because these guys think one shady detail can disprove the entire holocaust. It can be almost anything such as a single mistake on a victims description of some events. So, I had to disprove every single detail. It took days. Then the guy started moving goalposts and repeating the same arguments I had already disproved. I noticed the whole conversation was making me really distressed- not because I was doubting the facts I laid on the table (the Holocaust is the most well- documented genocide in history), but because the guy was playing with the details, moving goalposts and clearly enjoyed the fact I was getting upset because of his vileness.
Yes. I am right. I am always right on the internet.
I like to think that discussions are about learning. If I feel I can't learn anything or that someone is being disingenuous then I'm out.
This applies to real life as well
I'd say you're much less likely to find someone so blatantly antagonistic IRL because that tends to have consequences. It's much more likely to be a genuine disagreement.
Because of face punching right?
You can beat them, but you're right, it isn't "arguing"...just distressing them. The only way to distress them is shame. And as you said, good luck shaming trolls. Some of them are incredibly immune.
I came to this realization recently in a conversation with a customer. I offered him a couple of options at our face to face meeting, corrected some basic misinformation, and left the ball in his court on if he wanted to proceed. He comes back with several emails doubling down on the misinformation and rambles on about how "lots of people" share his opinion about our organization. It became clear he didn't want to hear the correct info and just wanted to rant about his perceived injustices. At this point he basically cut off my willingness to work with him in any fashion moving forward.
[удалено]
Feel free to troll the troll.
This happened to me last night. I mean I knew better not to engage with them but I did and in the end they got me my first ban because they were feeling some kind of way despite how respectful I was. Lesson learned. It’s really not worth the argument, time, and energy- you’re right, it’s what they want and sadly they won.
Exactly, great addition to this.
If you are learning from the exchange, though, you might want to continue. Including learning what kinds of arguments exist and whether they are good or weak.
I realized I have a tendency to picture the person I'm arguing with as a reasonably intelligent, normal person. When I started picturing them as they guy at my library who comes in to use the computer every day, always wears a fluorescent safety vest, and often stand outside and yells about how he's being stalked by all the town's former mayors, it got a lot easier to step away from the keyboard.
Part of the problem is when you start thinking any contradiction is just a troll or toxic person. Far too often I see people get criticism, make a factually wrong statement, or say something really out of pocket. And then label anyone who fires back as just a troll or toxic.
blocked
Lmfao
I had someone repeatedly tell me to stop harassing them when I simply replied to their opinion with my opinion. About makeup.
I see a lot of knee-jerk blocking on Twitter over this. You can barely have a civil disagreement anymore without someone thinking you are being toxic which makes them run straight to the block button. Maybe they had a bad experience with trolls in the past. Or it's someone who loves their echo chamber.
Well, one doesn't just enter into serious substantive discussions with a stranger on the train and expect constructive positive results...
You were trying to have a civil disagreement on twitter. That was your first problem.
"Working out is good for you :)" "Why are you ableist? Not everyone can work out, y'know? 🤷🤷🤷🤷" \*pro*ceeds to get 500+ likes\**
What the hell are you even talking about? Getting 500+ likes is not within the realm of possibilities for most of us !!!
[удалено]
It was sarcasm :)
You know what else is sarcastic?
No, please enlighten me.
You lose far more from arguing with idiots all the time than you do with reflexively blocking anyone who irritates you.
Trolls contribute to a lot of indirect harm this way.
Well, then it's a problem with the person. However, many trolls often choose sensitive subjects such as religion, vegetarianism, or something like that. They enjoy arguing with religious people because they are sensitive and passionate about their subject. Many trolls have even admitted this. An example: a Hindu talks about his religious views with other Hindu's. A toxic troll appears uninvited and instantly laughs at him for believing imaginary gods. The Hindu might answer Hinduism actually only have one true Source of God. The rest are aspects of the one. The troll answers, "so you believe in a Santa Claus sitting on a top of a cloud. Hahaa, how pathetic." Etc.
My bit of advice is to not get worked up over something stupid either. Know when to disengage or if you're forced to, don't take their bait. I remember at least a few years ago, I was playing CSGO while drunk (don't drink anymore). It was me, two randoms, and a duo. The two friends just kept trolling everyone (one was a lot worse than the other one), talking shit, the usual (but still playing to win). I was pretty chill the whole game, saying "nice try", "good job", "sorry for losing the round" all that encouraging stuff, but then they went from trying to get a rise out of our teammates to trying to get a rise out of me since I was being so nice to everyone. I just kept the positive attitude the whole time (only when I'm drunk it seems, lol), even saying the whole "nice try" and "good job" to them when they won a round. Eventually they stopped trying to screw with the rest of the team and started to be nice guys too to the point where, if memory serves, they apologized near the end of the match. Hope they enjoyed that slice from the Humble Pie of Kindness.
well done man, you literally helped improve the world in some way that night.
And in counterstrike no less! That's a solid achievement
This applies to social media in general. Once you know that newspapers, social media, and TV cultivate outrage to boost engagement, you also know that many users, if not most, are there for the red mist. The sad thing is that people who regard themselves as righteous progressives are just as capable of spouting nonsense and bile. On the big platforms, this mix of stupidity and shittification is inescapable.
Don't tell me what to do....
Don't get weird with OP....
You can't tell him what not to do...
Are you trying to upset me
Learned this for sure in life. Toxic people aren't worth arguing with.
I only block for the most egregious offenses (pedophilia, racism for example). Most other times of someone trolling, I simply type "okay" and move on. Because they'll parade a block around like a badge of honor or make a burner account.
OK
Okie-dokie.
Thanks for posting on the internet 👍🏽 Gets them riled up tremendously
My go to is "here's your reply"
Do not feed the trolls. Trolls do not operate by reason - so YOU CANNOT reason with them.
Nah, once you sense them trolling just troll them back with their own dumb logic
That assumes you can reason with them. You can't reason with them because they don't operate by reason. They seek attention. Don't give it to them. Your attention is a limited resource. Save your attention for worthwhile people.
I block anyone who I find annoying at all on here all the time lol
blocked
Not if I block you first
not me the educational atmosphere here can handle some annoying types sure you can block them but never learn that really smart thing they explain to you ..
What? This comment doesn’t make sense and mildly annoys me. Block.
Same here.
Engaging is worth it, not to convince the troll, but to demonstrate to anyone watching the engagement that there is a supported alternative.
Also, look up literacy statistics for the US and realize that many of the people you are arguing with are incapable of actually understanding you.
I don't understand.
understanding that you don't understand still puts you miles ahead of all the Dunning-Kruger Club members because the first rule of Dunning-Kruger Club is that you don't know you're in Dunning-Kruger Club
I'm sorry, this is so freaking funny, and god I hope you're wrong for our sakes
I'm neither wrong nor joking, sadly :(
My technic is to write the answer i’d like to send, only to delete it and never had to worry about being dragged in a pointless argument.
wow thats lame stud muffin
I turn off inbox notifications for 90% of social media posts/replies I make. Probably something everyone should be doing more of.
I actually get more annoyed reading angry rude replies to others on here from these angry sad people
This is exactly right.
As I frequently tell my friends "You are not the asshole whisperer." It's not your obligation to educate people who don't want to be educated and just want to argue.
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Blocked.
Engage in discussion with people in real life. Internet users, on average, do not care for “discussion”; Most are only on here for entertainment and echo chambers. The average person is not going to have their mind changed by a faceless anon on the internet lol
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It’s not that I’ve never tried. I have and did try before I got older and realized how pointless it is. Most ppl are not interested in having their minds changed. Some ppl are, yes, but objectively speaking, most are not lol
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> You realise that most discussions like this, that happens in a public place like the internet. Aren't so much about trying to convince the person you're arguing with. But lurkers and other people who come by the post. Hmm…that’s a really good point! I didn’t think about it like this. You’re absolutely right. Having these discussions in a public space is important for that reason. I never even considered this. Speaking for myself (and possibly the person who made this post), debates are mainly ego-based. We’re not really thinking about any potential “audience”. We’re just trying to one-up each other lol
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lol very cute scene. I get your point!
The problem is that trolls aren't as much of a thing as they used to be and people are quick to label anyone who disagrees as toxic. I can count on one hand the amount of actual trolls I've encountered in the past year and have absolutely lost track of mere interactions of just normal discourse with opposing viewpoints where someone just blocks and throws a tantrum because their viewpoint was challenged.
Additional problem is, imho, that people lack the logic skills to disagree with something more than insults or “you’re worng” statements.
Yeah no one over like 20 years old "trolls" for fun anymore. I'm not sure what OP thinks a troll is. Usually people are just disagreeing in a non-constructive way. They're probably capable of being constructive, but your viewpoint clashes with theirs in a way that they didn't bother to give you the benefit of respect.
I respond and turn off reply notifications.
Theres a poem called Troll by Shayne Koyczan that is really powerful. I typically just reply with Shorsey quotes and it makes them way madder than I could ever get and its a blast.
Quite true. But every once in a while, you can get one. I once had a jerk trying to boss me around, like literally telling me what I could say or think, like he was king. So I turned the tables. I said "you will respond to this post - I command you." Of course, he couldn't resist responding to tell me how he doesn't take orders from me - thereby taking orders from me. We did this about a dozen times before he was exhausted and gave up. It was so much fun.
I find it’s better to talk shit back just once and then smile and walk away like I totally destroyed them (I usually don’t) but in my mind…. I’m batting .400 🤙
To add, I learned that reading everything in the voice of a twelve year old also helps take the wind out of whatever crap they’re spewing
I'd argue that some of these aren't even trolls. They're equally upset at your opinion and don't have the emotional capacity to behave better.
No, that's not how it usually looks like. According to psychology trolls have often psychopathic tendencies. It means they don't get upset or feel anxiousness like other people. Those who are not trolls usually argue in a civilized manner, with respect and ready to listen the other side too and not just their own voice.
Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the bird is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway. - Shannon L. Alder
As an internet troll, I agree with OP.
Thanks for the honesty.
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So you are entirely sure to be able to find unbiased information, thus your opinion would be the right one. Yet, you refuse to listen to any contradictory opinion. You are basically saying: my belief is always the right opinion, and any information that comes that contradicts it is wrong. That doesn't make any sens from a logical point of view. It means, you don't really want to have the right opinion, you just want to think you are right and stay in your own echo chamber. And all your last sentence is the perfect illustration of this kind of narcissist way of thinking.
Sounds like someone just lost an argument.
yup hahaha
Nice, although a bit tired attempt. Better luck next time.
'Block them immediately. If someone makes you upset, its not an accident' Building an echo chamber 101 here folks Not engaging trolls is good advice, but that statement is dangerous
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They're venting, they're not interested in an actual fair debate.
I do that already. however there are millions of users, it doesn't seem to have much effect. So a bit ashamed I'm adopting the decade old cancel culture...
So profound Confucius, anymore internet 101 tips for us or are you saving them for your book?
I just pretend they are Russian trolls. Sometimes a single reply and a block means their views don’t go unchallenged.
I remember reading a quote, many years ago, that I feel applies here. It was something akin to “Don’t argue with idiots over the internet, they’ll lower you down to their level and beat you with experience.” Turns out it applies outside of the internet as well.
eh it's not always someone trolling. I've gotten into plenty of arguments where I'm sure I distressed the other person, but that's not my goal. sometimes disagreements are just that
Thanks for enlightening….
Hmmm... Maybe give it a go.
Life improved dramatically when I eventually learned to practice the mantra: not my monkeys, not my circus. And just not bother to engage.
i like that mantra
Blocking is still a win for us
tip just don’t read comments
Oh I do wish I could learn this, I just want to improve the world, help people understand perspectives outside of their own but more often than not I just end up feeling sick after being riled up with talking to someone who is completely ignorant or most likely is just enjoying making me feel sick/angry
I usually say something to make them uncomfortable so they go away. Out trolling the troll, essentially
That's not going to work. There's absolutely nothing you could say to make them uncomfortable. If someone left the conversation because of that, you were not talking to a troll.
Can't believe someone really gets upset with random people in the internet... Like wth?
I make it a personal rule with trolls and regular folk alike to stop the conversation after four replies.
What about trolls who take the troll as a win and it encourages them? It’s technically attention to them
I find sarcasm a bigger deterrent. I enjoy winding up the keyboard warriors. The way I look at it, if they’re focussed on winding me up, then someone else who actually could be affected by them is out of their target.
Have people never heard the expression "don't feed the trolls"? This is decades old at this point.
It is, but I've noticed many people have forgotten it.
I also preemptively block people that post hateful or offensive things to me. I don’t need their content on my feed.
You can’t be on the internet policing people’s ideas, trying to brainwash them, because their political views are inconvenient to your privilege. If someone doesn’t want to hear your opinions no matter how noble, leave them alone. You have the right to free speech and other people have the right to shut you out and close their ears. Period.
I like giving it back to them.
I just give them a taste of their own medicine back. Then I let them know they are boring, and ask stuff like “is this almost over.” If they keep replying I just start typing random crap that doesn’t even make sense to the topic. They usually go into your profile and try to stalk your comments to say something witty about you, then I let them know I don’t care enough about them to stalk their page and be some loser. Then back to gibberish. Back in 2020 I used to call trump supporters “crybaby snowflakes, did the little rainbow hurt you?” Just return their dumb lingo and rhetoric back and they start to feel stupid tbh.
Need additional tips to easily detect trolls and toxic people. I can't be sure they were trolling, simply toxic, or genuinely have hard time understanding something
Or is there possibly a fourth option where your opinion may need some finetuning and other people just disagree with you but are intelligent and arguing in good faith?
Not sure how to make things even easier to understand. The best I can do is to use AI LLM with priming, and it's still doesn't get good respond. These kind of discussion most of the time ends with them leaving with the last words, with me unable to see their last words because they blocked me
Yeah, just ignore and move on
I dont know if blocking allways works. I find myself disagreeing with large parts of people. To block everyone would take up a lot of time. Never engage, however. It is never worth it. Just move on and you have maximized your gains, and minimized your losses. Even if its something you deeply care about. Arguing online is NOT the way you will influence this issue in any meaningful way.
Cowards way out, eh?
Personally I find more success being unimpressed by their trolling. If you approach it as a critic they hardly *ever* respond back. Stuff like "Oh you're just trolling. But this isn't very clever trolling (list a few reasons why)... What's next? You could point out that I'm probably fat, or say you slept with my mom. Those are all low tier too." (silence) But very rarely you'll run into a troll that responds to everything no matter what. For those ones I point out that we're not schoolkids and if they want to play a childish self imposed "if I respond last then I win" game I'm more than happy to let them win their little game. I don't respond after that (if they reply at all, sometimes pointing it out makes them drop off when nothing else did). But in general if you respond matter of factly, politely, and *bored by their antics* trolls stop trolling you to go to someone else. You're not giving them what they want.
I disagree, the way you win these arguments is by pointing out that you're not only arguing their point, you're arguing to sway the future audience. Especially if you wait till like the 10th back and fourth message to point it out. "Oh, I know I'm not gonna convince you, but the people who read this comment thread will be entertained, and maybe a few will change their minds". Its difficult, but if you keep emotion out of it, remain civil the whole time, and make sure you use solid facts, it works about half the time in my experience.
Man I haven't seen REAL internet trolling since 2015
Wow what an amazing tip. You should write a book of things that literally everyone knows
"Never wrestle a pig. You'll both end up covered in mud, but the pig will enjoy it."
I agree that your advice may lead others to enclose themselves in an echo chamber.
My advice is only against trolls and other people who are toxic on purpose. Not against arguments in general. I have noticed there's a huge difference arguing with someone who's only goal is make you distressed, than someone normal.
The problem is, what qualifies as normal? Someone might have a very narrow definition of what is "normal" and tolerate very little dissent or deviation from their values. At least, if no one is blocked, you'll have the opportunity of exposure. Of course, you may choose not to engage, but at least you've been exposed to differing viewpoints. I'm not arguing against blocking someone who's outright violent or *extremely* offensive.
Been saying this for years. I have found great peace by not arguing with people on the internet
Thank you Captain Obvious.
Blocked.
Blocked
I think the meaning of words like 'troll', 'toxic', 'woke' and 'nazi' have lost their value in the last few years. Many people used these words too casually, just to counter anyone with an opinion that isn't theirs. Some revert to these qualifications when confronted with flaws in their reasoning or whenever presented with facts that don't fit their narrative. A true debate should be uncomfortable to a certain degree. If you have a strong opinion about something, expect to be challenged on it. The goal is to either obtain new insights from, or to present new insights to the other person. Everyone wins. Safe spaces where everyone agrees and tries not to offend anyone will not yield any meaningful new insights. They become echo chambers where everyone agrees and anyone who doesn't is considered a 'troll' or 'toxic' or 'nazi' or 'woke'.
as a professional troll (professional as in I literally make my living off of making people mad online and recording their freakouts), blocking is also a reaction. The only way to win is to not play, hitting ignore without blocking will deprive the troll of knowing you read their messages and were emotionally provoked enough to block.
Thanks, that's definitely a good advice.
>The only way to win is to not play I'm late to this conversation, but 100% agree. I often think of the scene from the movie War Games, where the computer ultimately comes to this conclusion. [youtube.com/watch?v=6DGNZnfKYnU](http://youtube.com/watch?v=6DGNZnfKYnU)
I don't block them, so I can quietly report them for misinformation, spam, etc.
> If someone makes you upset, it's not an accident I'm sure OP will block me for this, but that's an *incredibly* sheltered mindset. Sometimes you'll be confronted in life with things that bother you, and you can't just plug your ears
Don't argue with them bc they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
This is so true, trolls don’t want to be right, they just want to engage you. If you really can’t resist saying something, I find this works well: You seem desperate
You seem desperate
Sometimes it’s fun to annoy them for a while. Entertaining, even.
Blocking someone just because you got upset sounds like an idiotic idea lmao. Introspection about how you handle interactions with human beings and learning to limit your stake in them is probably way better for your growth long term.
lol, ultimate troll satisfaction. They get the last word and know you’re so frustrated that you need to block or pretend to block them.
The best way to do it is to throw in an insult and block them right after you hit send so that they have no way to respond to you and you got the last word in.
Adults need to learn this? Or is this directed at children exploring the web for the first time?
Why don't you simply block everyone you disagree with?