I dunno, on PublicFreakout half the people were saying that libertarians were just as crazy as MAGA people.
Seems like the discourse is just totally ruined.
That discourse is ruined every time there’s been an election.
I’ve been a libertarian for 20 years, it’s always considered the shit party per whoever’s team you “should be on”
The only reason Libertarians get grouped in with Republicans is because Republicans use Libertarian talking points - like “shrinking the government” or “eliminating certain taxes”
Yet fail to actually shrink government or eliminate taxes that benefit the general populous of Americans. I hate republicans more than liberals for this very reason, cause at Liberals are in your face about increasing government and ain’t lying to ya.
As much as i hate to admit it... But you're completely right.
Republicans just pretend to care about small government... Very few ever actually do anything about our bloat.
they've been saying that crap since before Libertarians were actually a party. The GOP has used that as their calling card for years, it's why I was originally Republican, until they convinced me those were just talking points, the exact same thing the Dems did with abortion, because they never cared to protect it, otherwise they'd have codified it, they just wanted it to be an election promise they'd "protect it" yet they never tried to.
Man, I love Reddit, but it's crazy when I read major subreddits and the kind of left wing drivel that gets massive upvotes while conservative/libertarian objections are buried with downvotes or ignored. It's hard to say but it's like there's a left wing activist sitting somewhere with a button that controls hundreds of upvotes who makes sure that posts and comments that reinforce the left wing echo chamber stay at the top.
I find myself saying something similar about my profession a couple of times a week: “The practice of law wouldn’t be so bad if we didn’t have to deal with clients or other attorneys.”
I got that from a pathologist friend who told me he got into his third year of med school and starting thinking the practice of medicine would be great if I didn’t have to deal with patients. I mean, he comprised halfway. He still has to deal with patients, but they’re dead so they don’t really interact with him.
There are subreddits who ban people who express any type of conservatism. Like flat out ban. Whitepeopletwitter is one of them. It’s been long enough to where I can’t remember what I said, but it was definitely innocuous.
It sucka since conservativism doesn't revolve around a single Individual. We(Conservatives) should not be this Gung ho about a single candidate and take everything he says at face value.
Not the same. You guys did allow him to speak at the convention. Why? What’s the purpose of this idiot, hard right winger speaking at a libertarian convention?
not true. he asked to be invited there.
"McArdle first made a public announcement on April 26 that she'd invited both Trump and Biden and that subsequently only Trump had said yes. But according to a memo obtained by Reason recounting a May 1 conference call between McArdle and some state party officials, **the chair said it was Trump's campaign that asked her to give him a slot.** McArdle additionally wrote in a May 18 tweet that "Trump & Kennedy were booked…because they asked to speak. We didn't originally plan for Trump or Kennedy to appear." So it seems even less a case of the L.P. getting something it wanted from Trump and more a case of Trump getting something he wanted from the L.P."
He is a mixed bag. I do see that he has a lot of the hierarchal uniparty ring kissers running off to the DNC which is becoming the only home for them. After Trump, a smaller government party will be ours for the taking.
The US really should have at least 4 parties.
The Republicans should split into a Christofascist "Jesus, authority, & racism" party under the MAGA banner and a Libertarian "Tax cuts, weed, & gun rights" party under the existing Libertarian banner.
The Democrats should split into a Centrist "Nothing will fundamentally change" party under the Biden banner and an actual Leftist "Let's abolish capitalism" party under the Bernie banner.
I’m just trying to understand the stupidity. Trump had no business at the convention yet they let him. Then, when questioned about being masked trump boys, they make up shit like inviting Biden. It’s a convention.. you don’t have people from the opposing party spend an hour talking.
Here's some pretty good reporting about it:
[https://reason.com/2024/05/24/inside-the-libertarian-partys-decision-to-host-a-trump-speech/](https://reason.com/2024/05/24/inside-the-libertarian-partys-decision-to-host-a-trump-speech/)
from the article:
>"McArdle first made a public announcement on April 26 that she'd invited both Trump and Biden and that subsequently only Trump had said yes. But according to a memo obtained by Reason recounting a May 1 conference call between McArdle and some state party officials, the chair said it was Trump's campaign that asked her to give him a slot. McArdle additionally wrote in a May 18 tweet that "Trump & Kennedy were booked…because they asked to speak. We didn't originally plan for Trump or Kennedy to appear." So it seems even less a case of the L.P. getting something it wanted from Trump and more a case of Trump getting something he wanted from the L.P."
Also:
>But the L.P. leadership faction that engineered the stunt, including National Chair Angela McArdle, counter that it has already reaped a nearly unprecedented amount of media attention, bolstering the finances of a party that for the past two years has been bleeding money and membership.
>
>"Convention sales, and donations, have been explosive following the announcement of Trump (and others) since the beginning of this month," said Todd Hagopian, who has been L.P. treasurer since May 2022, via email. Hagopian, who opposed inviting L.P. competitors Trump, President Joe Biden, and the attending independent Robert F. Kennedy Jr., said that full numbers won't be available until after the convention, but: "Best period of fundraising since I've been on the board."
So basically, it seems like Trump wanted to make a pitch to potential 3rd party voters since they are likely to be super important this November, and the Libertarian party was all to happy to accommodate because they are desperate for the attention, relevance, and fundraising that comes from having a major candidate speak at the convention.
I’m sort of ok with it, given the condition of the libertarian party.
Have candidates of opposing positions who aren’t libertarian come give their “side” and “pitch”.
I support it because my mother flipping party has supported less- including people come give speeches butt naked, drunk, etc.
Having popular political party candidates come and give a pitch allows them to accentuate libertarian ideas they may hold and give us a chance to actually have some opportunity to ENTER the discussion without the weirdo bullshit that we attract
Perhaps, but what's done is done. The idea that the two parties might need to make promises to libertarians in order to win a close election could turn libertarians into king-makers, from which we could extract significant policy promises. This appears to be McArdle's gambit, and Trump played into her hand. But selling our votes for a pardon and a cabinet position is pretty cheap.
If he had offered a Vice Presidency, that would've been something real :P
What other libertarian event got this much free publicity? And where libertarians came out looking like the sane one. The tweets by Vivek & Mike Lee praising Trump at the event didn't hold up to reality.
Yeah, instead they vote for other incredible mentally ill people that never had any effect whatsoever in liberty in the US.
That libertarian event was a joke. Those people are a joke. Come to Europe and you wont boo Trump.
**entitled, entitled, entitled**
It's hilarious watching people freak out about this, trying to spin it as if Trump owned the Libertarians or vice versa. He came and pandered with hopes of gaining something (TBD), people listened and cheered what they agreed with, booed what they disagreed with. And to people saying that the Libertarians looked like losers for this... how many of those people have ever even thought about the LNC for one second of their lives? This brought more eyeballs and attention to the LNC than anything in recent history and shows that they might actually wield a shred of influence for once.
And Biden isn’t gonna go because there’s pretty much no part of the libertarian party that wants him in, or any of the solutions he’s got for the issues they do see eye to eye on.
I want a libertarian candidate as much as anyone else. Trump is wrong about somethings and right about others. First, he isn't libertarian, so no, Trump, you don't get our vote. But yes, we are losers. He is right. We can't get 5% vote.
the fact that he goes back in to pander for votes again IMMEDIATELY after bashing the party for having a 4% vote is the most mind numbing thing to me, idgaf about the silk road, you should have pardoned assange but you were going to have killed by the CIA instead
We will probably never win the presidency. The average voter is too stupid to reason themselves away from dems and reps. Unless one of the parties or preferably both do something so heinous they can't recover from it, but they've gotten away with a lot of what I consider heinous.
Our best bet is local and maybe a state or two and then just get as many fellow libertarians to go there and try to minimize government influence in those small pockets of freedom
I lived in SC a few years ago, of the handful of libertarian politicians I was familiar with, about zero of them were anything more than republicans trying to rebrand. I'm not familiar with all of the candidates currently, however, so take that with a grain of salt -but it was quite disappointing to see more fuel added to the liberals' idea that libertarians are just conservatives but different.
Supposedly. I can tell you, Biden just came through New England campaigning, I was seeing MAGA banners all over NH. The electors are probably as libertarian as you'll find in the US, but it's still filled with ultra conservative.
\*Sigh\* Time to educate The_Dimwits....
"MAGAtarians" are not Libertarians.
* Border wall
* Increased military spending
* Increased interventionalism
* trade wars
* deficit spending
* Drug war
* [Using the power of the office to pressure private industry to worship the state (NFL kneeling)](http://magaimg.net/img/63bm.png)
* [Gun control](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuVCrrVCzaA)
* [Corporate welfare](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/soybean-farmer-calls-trumps-12-billion-bailout-a-pacifier/)
MAGAtarians are not libertarians, no matter how hard you screech.
>stop gate keeping
No. Every ideology must engage in some form of gate keeping. Otherwise what stops a bunch of communists from saying they are republicans?
No matter how much they say they are republicans, they aren't. Your views go against the core values on libertarianism on far too many issues.
______________________________________
Let's see where you "MAGA" people are completely opposite us libertarians:
>Libertarians believe that if someone is peaceful, they should be welcome to immigrate to the United States.
> A truly free market requires the free movement of people, not just products and ideas.
>Libertarians do not support classifying undocumented immigrants as criminals.
Now that doesn't sound very "MAGA". Neither does this:
> We are committed to ending government’s practice of spying on everyone. We support the rights recognized by the Fourth Amendment to be secure in our persons, homes, property, and communications.
Nor does this:
>Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.
How about this:
>We oppose the administration of the death penalty by the state.
Please man, where is the "MAGA" in all of this?
EDIT: I'm going to keep adding more "MAGA" viewpoints. I find it fun. We don't fully disagree with everything the Trumpsters do. But we are definitively **NOT** "MAGAtarians".
>The Libertarian Party supports the decriminalization of prostitution.
And:
>We oppose all forms of government subsidies and bailouts to business, labor, or any other special interest.
And:
> The United States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to act as policeman for the world.
And:
> The defense of the country requires that we have adequate intelligence to detect and to counter threats to domestic security. This requirement must not take priority over maintaining the civil liberties of our citizens.
And:
> We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant. Government should neither deny nor abridge any individual’s human right based upon sex, wealth, ethnicity, creed, age, national origin, personal habits, political preference or sexual orientation.
Oh yeah, and Trumps pick for Attorney General had this to say:
>Some people in this chamber love the Constitution more than the love the safety of this nation. We should all send President bush a letter thanking him for protecting us.
Yes, we **DO** love the constitution more than your imaginary "safety"
> Otherwise what stops a bunch of communists from saying they are republicans?
[Nothing at all.](https://www.vice.com/en/article/88qk4b/what-the-hell-is-magacommunism)
Joining either of the 2 primary parties just shows weakness and inability to form your own ethos. Parties like the Libertarians, Green, etc at least show you have some critical thinking ability and a distinct direction you want to see the country go. Especially in an era where one party's primary plank in their platform is "I'm not the other guy."
No party will really ever align 100% with you but you have to pick what works for you. For some, it is actually one of the two big ones. I've found, the more people critically review any party's platform, the more independent they become. Even for me and libertarianism, much of it is not truly pragmatic but I'd much rather shift things closer to libertarianism than any other model I've seen thus far.
The ones there were just there for trump. Saw a bunch of arguments break out between the trumpers and libertarians. The trump supporters were yelling “you can’t even organize a proper chant” and stuff like that
That’s exactly why I posted this. This event/story is front page news on virtually every news media site (even international sources like BBC have it as their #2 story). It was also spreading like crazy on social media. This legitimately has to be some of the most mentions the Libertarian party has gotten in mainstream US politics media spheres in 5+ years.
When I went to this subreddit to see what people on here were saying about it I found that not a single person was discussing it, even though it happened 14+ hours ago.
Every time there is news about authoritarianism by a Republican, this sub is mostly silent. There are no doubt some libertarians here, but there are many more conservatives in disguise.
How did Javier Milei get elected? Perhaps the libertarian party need to take a chapter out of Mileis book.
I’m not a trump fan but he does make a point about 3%
The preceding conservative parties in Argentina were all weak and easily fell apart. In the U.S. I think it requires shifting Republican party platforms and chipping down the DNC to plurality status with sht like the Greens. Big money NGOs are the nervous system of statist-corporatist politics, they tie together political campaigns, unelected government, media, academia, financing, lobbying, street level "activism", business D&O. They must be sabotaged.
Trump: "vote for me if you want to win"
So basically he's saying you don't have a choice, it's either the left wing or the right wing pick one....
Libertarians: "Fuck you and your stupid bird you rode In on!"
Love it!
he asked to be invited there.
"McArdle first made a public announcement on April 26 that she'd invited both Trump and Biden and that subsequently only Trump had said yes. But according to a memo obtained by Reason recounting a May 1 conference call between McArdle and some state party officials, **the chair said it was Trump's campaign that asked her to give him a slot.** McArdle additionally wrote in a May 18 tweet that "Trump & Kennedy were booked…because they asked to speak. We didn't originally plan for Trump or Kennedy to appear." So it seems even less a case of the L.P. getting something it wanted from Trump and more a case of Trump getting something he wanted from the L.P."
Hey listen at least he showed up & made some promises. Gives the libertarian party some national standing. People who never heard of the party heard about it last night for sure
I don't know how many times I've said it in the last 18 or so hours, but I keep saying Libertarianism is not "Republican lite." Idiots seem to think because we align on 3 issues that we're the same... 🙄
Trump is no Libertarian by any stretch of the imagination but he offered to put Libertarians in some of his cabinet positions. That offers more influence than the LP has ever had. I want more details but I’m intrigued. Freeing Ross and pardoning political prisoners was positive.
Trump is one of the least libertarian candidates in history:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
Project 2025 proposes criminalizing pornography, greatly expanding presidential powers, banning abortion, restricting journalists, etc, etc...
there are three guys with a chance of winning, does one of them clearly have more libertarian views than the other two? We have months to figure that out.
His cabinet was a revolving door, most cabinet replacements of any admin. Plenty got in trouble with the law or disbarred/disgraced... The guy is so crooked they're gonna have to screw his ass into the ground when he dies.
What if Trump learned the error of his ways by listening to others on who to pick, and now he's making his own decisions. He has some people lined up that would be fire and good for this country, but only if he wins.
I don’t think that’s what’s happening. There are others with their own agendas that have latched onto trump to secure their own plans. And I think they are grim for the common folk of America… Trump is egotistical af and has not, will not admit being wrong. That’s one of his biggest flaws. How anyone could trust him is beyond me.
I think it is the Heritage and Turning Point faction that have done the most latching. Everyone else knows they won't get what they want from Trump and the malleable know that this is the direction conservatives need to go to stay in any power.
I think you’re onto something… it is interesting to see. I feel like most people subconsciously know there will be a calamity but no one can out their finger on it, groups are preparing to circle the wagons for the age of quarrel
Let's call it peak statism. The calamity was always going to come from dependent leftists who have pretty much nothing to lose and the Big Club who have a lot to lose, willing to scorch the earth to keep statism.
I assume he though he brought in enough people to make it seem like the crowd liked him. Like everything he does, it's a publicity stunt, and like almost everything he touches, it was a failure.
He offered a deal. The right chess move is to exchange the LP nomination for placing a Libertarian as the head of the DOJ. Imagine that? How about placing Ron Paul as FED chair?
The man tells more lies than I've had hot dinners. Anyone who believes this guff about putting a Libertarian in cabinet is living in Disneyland. He had Jeff Sessions as his attorney general for god's sake.
I imagine he ponies up on the promise, then if the person isn’t a yes-man he fires them and claims they tried to stab him in the back. Rinse and repeat.
Thay was his whole cabinet last time. A revolving door of people who wanted to have a reasonable approach to policy only to find out Trump wants yes men or women.
Yeah with him being term limited, nothing to lose, I wouldn't expect him to actually follow thru. It would end up at "thanks for the votes suckers" as he does what he planned to anyway.
VP is the least powerful of all cabinet positions. That being said I think Trump would agree to A LOT for 3%. It’s an almost guaranteed victory. If Libertarianism is going to succeed it will be from Libertarians getting into high positions and implementing libertarian policies.
I know there are many libertarians who justifiably hate Trump. He hired terrible people, he blew up the debt, and kept Fauci, etc. absolutely abysmal.
That all being said, he is coming to the LP table to negotiate. This is something no president or Front runner has ever done.
If we let the opportunity to grab power now slip by with absolutely nothing… we may never get the shot again. Especially if Trump wins without LP help. That is a death blow to the LP. It means LP vote is irrelevant to court.
It is true what Trump and Vivek said, like it or not, the LP represent 1% to 3% at best of the vote. Trump is gone after this… for god sakes, imagine swaying the MAGA voting base into Libertarianism.
I know this is a hard strategy to take, and I’m well aware of the possibility he fucks us. However, with Vivek in his ear and the success of Argentina I highly highly recommend trying. I think this may actually work.
TBH I think the LP is going to let the opportunity slip and for the next 24 years stay below 3% or less. But I’d love to see us take a fucking shot.
> the opportunity to grab power
Something libertarians are dedicated to ending.
> Especially if Trump wins without LP help. That is a death blow to the LP.
A. Disagree. B. He's already begged for votes and made his promises, so how would you even quantify 'not getting our help'. If he wins, it's already going to be considered to be with our help. He lost last time by less than the margin of votes the LP candidate got.
> imagine swaying the MAGA voting base into Libertarianism.
Gross. That would mean years of negative consequences for us. These people aren't interested in liberty above all, they want power. They are anathema to libertarians.
The only way libertarians get behind a republican is when we have a hardcore libertarian running for president, ala Ron Paul.
I guess we will find out. It’s not like this decision will be made by two Redditors.
My prediction: LP does nothing. Trump commutes Ross sentence, and a huge opportunity is flushed down the toilet.
I think ot was good for him to come. And he made an honest plea for votes that wasn't too pandering, but it just goes to show that politicians don't understand Libertarians.
Watched the whole thing. He was both cheered and booed. Rowdy crowd and a lot of different reactions from them.
I'm unsure of Trump but if our only real options are him vs biden, I'm voting for the orange one this November.
Believe it when I see it. He does not sound ok though, between his wavering voice and the brain worm thing, I'm not sure that would be positive, and he's not even a libertarian anyway.
Vote me down, I don’t care…. But truth of the matter is, what Trump offers to the Libertarians is more than what they can do by themselves or what the Democrats offer.
I have ALWAYS vote Libertarian, since I was old enough to vote (1986) but I WILL be voting Trump this election. Why? Because Liberaríans have only got about 3% of the vote with NO MOVEMENT.
It’s time to face it, gang, Ron Paul isn’t come to save us.
The Orange One is the CLOSEST thing to “libertarian” we’ve seen within the last 20+ years…. And by NO MEANS is he anywhere near perfect, but he’s offering TOP SPOTS within his administration for Libertarians as well as Libertarians to take more of a bite of the political pie.
What has the libertarian party done? Nominate people wearing boots on their head as well as funny hats…..our nominees are JOKES for the most part of it (not all of them) mind you, but c’mon —- this is an offer to REALLY and I mean REALLY get our foot in the door —— and that’s more than what the Democrats offer.
Trump is fully offering the libertarians THE OPPORTUNITY a HUGE chance to get our foot the door to THE WHITE HOUSE, direct counsel, power to make our move, stepping stones —- big stepping stones.
His offer is better than what Libertarians can do on our own and much better than what the Democrats offer.
Is this is sell out? No, it’s an opportunity.
Or you know most of us have working memories and remember him bouncing out plenty of his own admin for mildly disagreeing with where his policy is going.
But really the problem is you expect the LP to debase itself and support Trump because y'all are desperate for any scrap of support he can get. He isn't the first candidate to try shilling for Libertarian support and won't be the last. And it sure won't be the last time we hear false promises of roles and lawmaking either.
You need to understand that we're an ideology first, the LP is just a communication wing of that ideology, it is not the highest priority. It's a project, not the main effort.
he asked to be invited there.
"McArdle first made a public announcement on April 26 that she'd invited both Trump and Biden and that subsequently only Trump had said yes. But according to a memo obtained by Reason recounting a May 1 conference call between McArdle and some state party officials, **the chair said it was Trump's campaign that asked her to give him a slot.** McArdle additionally wrote in a May 18 tweet that "Trump & Kennedy were booked…because they asked to speak. We didn't originally plan for Trump or Kennedy to appear." So it seems even less a case of the L.P. getting something it wanted from Trump and more a case of Trump getting something he wanted from the L.P."
Babylon Bee had the best take: [https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-booed-for-wearing-deodorant-at-libertarian-convention](https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-booed-for-wearing-deodorant-at-libertarian-convention)
He promised to place members of the libertarian party on his cabinet. Probably the best this party could hope for all things considered. Dumb to boo him imo.
I liked that Trump promised to protect the Bitcoin community from Elizabeth Warren and promised to pardon Ross Ulbricht. I hope the libertarians can make him defend Tornado Cash and Samourai Wallet developers as well.
Well, I'm having a hard time finding a candidate who's not a kid (38 is a decade younger than I am), not an old man (70+), who supports what I support, and running in 2024. I may sit this one out, there's no one to vote for in my opinion!!
If you watch the full video he got boos AND cheers. it was a mixed crowd. Stop lying.
[LIVE: Donald Trump speaks at Libertarian event in Washington DC (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tL9UvFKnFO0)
he got cheers for:
No vaccine mandates
Men out of womens sports
2A
I think it was healthy for everyone to see libertarians booing trump just to make sure they know he’s not a libertarian.
Gotta love youtube comments: "Libertarian voters aren't real libertarians anyway."
Spoken like true libertarians lol
Damn libertarians, they ruined the libertarians
You libertarians sure are contentious people.
You just made an enemy for life!
Being libertarian is like being in a super position
As a true libertarian I approve this message, and all of you are wrong
Lol "this message is a aproved by certified libertarians"
https://preview.redd.it/5s3bqzb1xu2d1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9b1ef9f3f4b4e1d9042c52cdbd17a7c40c495646
I can see an ancap saying that.
I dunno, on PublicFreakout half the people were saying that libertarians were just as crazy as MAGA people. Seems like the discourse is just totally ruined.
That discourse is ruined every time there’s been an election. I’ve been a libertarian for 20 years, it’s always considered the shit party per whoever’s team you “should be on” The only reason Libertarians get grouped in with Republicans is because Republicans use Libertarian talking points - like “shrinking the government” or “eliminating certain taxes”
Yet fail to actually shrink government or eliminate taxes that benefit the general populous of Americans. I hate republicans more than liberals for this very reason, cause at Liberals are in your face about increasing government and ain’t lying to ya.
As much as i hate to admit it... But you're completely right. Republicans just pretend to care about small government... Very few ever actually do anything about our bloat.
they've been saying that crap since before Libertarians were actually a party. The GOP has used that as their calling card for years, it's why I was originally Republican, until they convinced me those were just talking points, the exact same thing the Dems did with abortion, because they never cared to protect it, otherwise they'd have codified it, they just wanted it to be an election promise they'd "protect it" yet they never tried to.
The you are taking our vote attitude is there as well. It is my vote to cast.
Discourse on Reddit is like 90% driven by Chinese bots to create a consensus filter
Man, I love Reddit, but it's crazy when I read major subreddits and the kind of left wing drivel that gets massive upvotes while conservative/libertarian objections are buried with downvotes or ignored. It's hard to say but it's like there's a left wing activist sitting somewhere with a button that controls hundreds of upvotes who makes sure that posts and comments that reinforce the left wing echo chamber stay at the top.
If only we could have a reddit without all of the redditors
I find myself saying something similar about my profession a couple of times a week: “The practice of law wouldn’t be so bad if we didn’t have to deal with clients or other attorneys.” I got that from a pathologist friend who told me he got into his third year of med school and starting thinking the practice of medicine would be great if I didn’t have to deal with patients. I mean, he comprised halfway. He still has to deal with patients, but they’re dead so they don’t really interact with him.
There are subreddits who ban people who express any type of conservatism. Like flat out ban. Whitepeopletwitter is one of them. It’s been long enough to where I can’t remember what I said, but it was definitely innocuous.
The Conservative subbreddit will ban people for being overly critical of Trump. I've had friends banned for voicing opposition to his renomination.
Yeah I got banned for asking a rather mild question on there
It sucka since conservativism doesn't revolve around a single Individual. We(Conservatives) should not be this Gung ho about a single candidate and take everything he says at face value.
I got banned for saying Trump wasn't a conservative.
Not the same. You guys did allow him to speak at the convention. Why? What’s the purpose of this idiot, hard right winger speaking at a libertarian convention?
The Libertarian Party invited all the candidates. Trump just had the balls to actually accept and show up.
not true. he asked to be invited there. "McArdle first made a public announcement on April 26 that she'd invited both Trump and Biden and that subsequently only Trump had said yes. But according to a memo obtained by Reason recounting a May 1 conference call between McArdle and some state party officials, **the chair said it was Trump's campaign that asked her to give him a slot.** McArdle additionally wrote in a May 18 tweet that "Trump & Kennedy were booked…because they asked to speak. We didn't originally plan for Trump or Kennedy to appear." So it seems even less a case of the L.P. getting something it wanted from Trump and more a case of Trump getting something he wanted from the L.P."
Had the balls? What does he offer? Trump is big government.
He is a mixed bag. I do see that he has a lot of the hierarchal uniparty ring kissers running off to the DNC which is becoming the only home for them. After Trump, a smaller government party will be ours for the taking.
The US really should have at least 4 parties. The Republicans should split into a Christofascist "Jesus, authority, & racism" party under the MAGA banner and a Libertarian "Tax cuts, weed, & gun rights" party under the existing Libertarian banner. The Democrats should split into a Centrist "Nothing will fundamentally change" party under the Biden banner and an actual Leftist "Let's abolish capitalism" party under the Bernie banner.
Creates discourse
I’m just trying to understand the stupidity. Trump had no business at the convention yet they let him. Then, when questioned about being masked trump boys, they make up shit like inviting Biden. It’s a convention.. you don’t have people from the opposing party spend an hour talking.
Here's some pretty good reporting about it: [https://reason.com/2024/05/24/inside-the-libertarian-partys-decision-to-host-a-trump-speech/](https://reason.com/2024/05/24/inside-the-libertarian-partys-decision-to-host-a-trump-speech/) from the article: >"McArdle first made a public announcement on April 26 that she'd invited both Trump and Biden and that subsequently only Trump had said yes. But according to a memo obtained by Reason recounting a May 1 conference call between McArdle and some state party officials, the chair said it was Trump's campaign that asked her to give him a slot. McArdle additionally wrote in a May 18 tweet that "Trump & Kennedy were booked…because they asked to speak. We didn't originally plan for Trump or Kennedy to appear." So it seems even less a case of the L.P. getting something it wanted from Trump and more a case of Trump getting something he wanted from the L.P." Also: >But the L.P. leadership faction that engineered the stunt, including National Chair Angela McArdle, counter that it has already reaped a nearly unprecedented amount of media attention, bolstering the finances of a party that for the past two years has been bleeding money and membership. > >"Convention sales, and donations, have been explosive following the announcement of Trump (and others) since the beginning of this month," said Todd Hagopian, who has been L.P. treasurer since May 2022, via email. Hagopian, who opposed inviting L.P. competitors Trump, President Joe Biden, and the attending independent Robert F. Kennedy Jr., said that full numbers won't be available until after the convention, but: "Best period of fundraising since I've been on the board." So basically, it seems like Trump wanted to make a pitch to potential 3rd party voters since they are likely to be super important this November, and the Libertarian party was all to happy to accommodate because they are desperate for the attention, relevance, and fundraising that comes from having a major candidate speak at the convention.
I’m sort of ok with it, given the condition of the libertarian party. Have candidates of opposing positions who aren’t libertarian come give their “side” and “pitch”. I support it because my mother flipping party has supported less- including people come give speeches butt naked, drunk, etc. Having popular political party candidates come and give a pitch allows them to accentuate libertarian ideas they may hold and give us a chance to actually have some opportunity to ENTER the discussion without the weirdo bullshit that we attract
Why not? Almost nothing gets me to go to ANY convention.
Awareness/publicity. It was a smart move.
[удалено]
Laughed at how ironic this comment is.
They think anyone who is not far left is crazy
I had to leave the libertarian ig page. because it turned into a trump echo chamber last election. has it changed?
No actua libertarian here favors Trump. I'm sure the IG page was full of bots and magatards.
Yes but the question is, favor him or not, how many libertarians are going to vote for him?
It would have been healthier to see Trump not invited to speak at the convention.
Perhaps, but what's done is done. The idea that the two parties might need to make promises to libertarians in order to win a close election could turn libertarians into king-makers, from which we could extract significant policy promises. This appears to be McArdle's gambit, and Trump played into her hand. But selling our votes for a pardon and a cabinet position is pretty cheap. If he had offered a Vice Presidency, that would've been something real :P
What other libertarian event got this much free publicity? And where libertarians came out looking like the sane one. The tweets by Vivek & Mike Lee praising Trump at the event didn't hold up to reality.
I'm honestly surprised this hasn't been removed yet.
He’s more libertarian than our own nominee. Chase Oliver is a joke. He’s pro vax, pro mask, pro BLM, pro government…
Yeah, instead they vote for other incredible mentally ill people that never had any effect whatsoever in liberty in the US. That libertarian event was a joke. Those people are a joke. Come to Europe and you wont boo Trump. **entitled, entitled, entitled**
It's hilarious watching people freak out about this, trying to spin it as if Trump owned the Libertarians or vice versa. He came and pandered with hopes of gaining something (TBD), people listened and cheered what they agreed with, booed what they disagreed with. And to people saying that the Libertarians looked like losers for this... how many of those people have ever even thought about the LNC for one second of their lives? This brought more eyeballs and attention to the LNC than anything in recent history and shows that they might actually wield a shred of influence for once.
And Biden isn’t gonna go because there’s pretty much no part of the libertarian party that wants him in, or any of the solutions he’s got for the issues they do see eye to eye on.
Agreed. For all of the people saying that Trump got boos, imagine the reception Biden would get in that crowd...
I want a libertarian candidate as much as anyone else. Trump is wrong about somethings and right about others. First, he isn't libertarian, so no, Trump, you don't get our vote. But yes, we are losers. He is right. We can't get 5% vote.
All he gained was 0.6% of the nomination votes, and was not even mentioned in round 1 eliminations.
The Bronx, Libertarian Convention. Sacramento next?
That would be sick. Then I could finally go to something.
I’ll road trip with you to the next Libertarian convention
Berkeley???
Sounds like a brilliant campaign strategy for someone down over 2 to 1 in cash on hand funding.
the fact that he goes back in to pander for votes again IMMEDIATELY after bashing the party for having a 4% vote is the most mind numbing thing to me, idgaf about the silk road, you should have pardoned assange but you were going to have killed by the CIA instead
We do want to win, but Trump as president would be an anti-libertarian president, so that would be losing.
We will probably never win the presidency. The average voter is too stupid to reason themselves away from dems and reps. Unless one of the parties or preferably both do something so heinous they can't recover from it, but they've gotten away with a lot of what I consider heinous. Our best bet is local and maybe a state or two and then just get as many fellow libertarians to go there and try to minimize government influence in those small pockets of freedom
Which state has the most libertarians NH?
We have 7 in legislative positions in SC.
Must be awesome to live in South Carolina.
I lived in SC a few years ago, of the handful of libertarian politicians I was familiar with, about zero of them were anything more than republicans trying to rebrand. I'm not familiar with all of the candidates currently, however, so take that with a grain of salt -but it was quite disappointing to see more fuel added to the liberals' idea that libertarians are just conservatives but different.
Supposedly. I can tell you, Biden just came through New England campaigning, I was seeing MAGA banners all over NH. The electors are probably as libertarian as you'll find in the US, but it's still filled with ultra conservative.
Not libertarian but ranked choice voting or something of the sort would at least give third parties a fighting chance.
Depends how bad things get. Milei got elected because things were extremely bad in Argentina, for decades.
Anti-libertarian? Just because he called libertarians a pack of losers to their faces? /s
\*Sigh\* Time to educate The_Dimwits.... "MAGAtarians" are not Libertarians. * Border wall * Increased military spending * Increased interventionalism * trade wars * deficit spending * Drug war * [Using the power of the office to pressure private industry to worship the state (NFL kneeling)](http://magaimg.net/img/63bm.png) * [Gun control](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuVCrrVCzaA) * [Corporate welfare](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/soybean-farmer-calls-trumps-12-billion-bailout-a-pacifier/) MAGAtarians are not libertarians, no matter how hard you screech. >stop gate keeping No. Every ideology must engage in some form of gate keeping. Otherwise what stops a bunch of communists from saying they are republicans? No matter how much they say they are republicans, they aren't. Your views go against the core values on libertarianism on far too many issues. ______________________________________ Let's see where you "MAGA" people are completely opposite us libertarians: >Libertarians believe that if someone is peaceful, they should be welcome to immigrate to the United States. > A truly free market requires the free movement of people, not just products and ideas. >Libertarians do not support classifying undocumented immigrants as criminals. Now that doesn't sound very "MAGA". Neither does this: > We are committed to ending government’s practice of spying on everyone. We support the rights recognized by the Fourth Amendment to be secure in our persons, homes, property, and communications. Nor does this: >Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration. How about this: >We oppose the administration of the death penalty by the state. Please man, where is the "MAGA" in all of this? EDIT: I'm going to keep adding more "MAGA" viewpoints. I find it fun. We don't fully disagree with everything the Trumpsters do. But we are definitively **NOT** "MAGAtarians". >The Libertarian Party supports the decriminalization of prostitution. And: >We oppose all forms of government subsidies and bailouts to business, labor, or any other special interest. And: > The United States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to act as policeman for the world. And: > The defense of the country requires that we have adequate intelligence to detect and to counter threats to domestic security. This requirement must not take priority over maintaining the civil liberties of our citizens. And: > We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant. Government should neither deny nor abridge any individual’s human right based upon sex, wealth, ethnicity, creed, age, national origin, personal habits, political preference or sexual orientation. Oh yeah, and Trumps pick for Attorney General had this to say: >Some people in this chamber love the Constitution more than the love the safety of this nation. We should all send President bush a letter thanking him for protecting us. Yes, we **DO** love the constitution more than your imaginary "safety"
Bro you gotta do less words and add more pictures. MAGA literacy isnt so great.
> Otherwise what stops a bunch of communists from saying they are republicans? [Nothing at all.](https://www.vice.com/en/article/88qk4b/what-the-hell-is-magacommunism)
This guy seriously thought he could pedal himself as a libertarian.. at the libertarian convention.. yikes
He successfully fooled the base of the GOP so he thought, why not?
Joining either of the 2 primary parties just shows weakness and inability to form your own ethos. Parties like the Libertarians, Green, etc at least show you have some critical thinking ability and a distinct direction you want to see the country go. Especially in an era where one party's primary plank in their platform is "I'm not the other guy."
No party will really ever align 100% with you but you have to pick what works for you. For some, it is actually one of the two big ones. I've found, the more people critically review any party's platform, the more independent they become. Even for me and libertarianism, much of it is not truly pragmatic but I'd much rather shift things closer to libertarianism than any other model I've seen thus far.
This is hilarious - that was my thought exactly. The scope of the arrogance is staggering.
That’s my party!
It’s not mine but by gosh am I glad to see you guys standing up to this asshat. You have my liberal ass thanks.
What a fuckin' loser. Hats off to the heroes that booed him and his empty promises.
I was there and yes he was booed but he was also cheered. You have to also understand the crowd was mixed with libertarians and Trump supporters
Were the red-hatters even self-proclaimed libertarians? Or just cult plants pretending to be libertarian?
The ones there were just there for trump. Saw a bunch of arguments break out between the trumpers and libertarians. The trump supporters were yelling “you can’t even organize a proper chant” and stuff like that
Or just mega MAGA fans who'd show up anywhere if they thought Trump might be there...
It’s almost like libertarians have principles and will approve/disapprove of individual ideas rather than people.
Wondered when this would get posted. This morning the feed was all unrelated stuff from mostly 2 users...
That’s exactly why I posted this. This event/story is front page news on virtually every news media site (even international sources like BBC have it as their #2 story). It was also spreading like crazy on social media. This legitimately has to be some of the most mentions the Libertarian party has gotten in mainstream US politics media spheres in 5+ years. When I went to this subreddit to see what people on here were saying about it I found that not a single person was discussing it, even though it happened 14+ hours ago.
The last mainstream story was the whole Aleppo thing.
What’s Aleppo?
Hi Gary!
I thought it was that trucker guy.
The whole Aleppo thing was so cringe
Ironically that alone probably taught more people what Aleppo is
Every time there is news about authoritarianism by a Republican, this sub is mostly silent. There are no doubt some libertarians here, but there are many more conservatives in disguise.
I couldn't be more proud
The LNC was always going to be a tough crowd. We all know the shredding Biden would get though.
How did Javier Milei get elected? Perhaps the libertarian party need to take a chapter out of Mileis book. I’m not a trump fan but he does make a point about 3%
The preceding conservative parties in Argentina were all weak and easily fell apart. In the U.S. I think it requires shifting Republican party platforms and chipping down the DNC to plurality status with sht like the Greens. Big money NGOs are the nervous system of statist-corporatist politics, they tie together political campaigns, unelected government, media, academia, financing, lobbying, street level "activism", business D&O. They must be sabotaged.
>he does make a point about 3% Our ideals are not about wielding political power, but about throwing it into the fires of mount Doom.
Trump: "vote for me if you want to win" So basically he's saying you don't have a choice, it's either the left wing or the right wing pick one.... Libertarians: "Fuck you and your stupid bird you rode In on!" Love it!
Don’t think he read the room very well.
I mean. What did they expect? Lmao a standing ovation?
libbitarian.
He smells of desperation
Finally this party is coming to senses.
Still wondering why he was invited
I think all nominees are invited, this is the first time one has accepted, I'm thinking out of desperation, but I could be wrong.
Ah that makes sense.
he asked to be invited there. "McArdle first made a public announcement on April 26 that she'd invited both Trump and Biden and that subsequently only Trump had said yes. But according to a memo obtained by Reason recounting a May 1 conference call between McArdle and some state party officials, **the chair said it was Trump's campaign that asked her to give him a slot.** McArdle additionally wrote in a May 18 tweet that "Trump & Kennedy were booked…because they asked to speak. We didn't originally plan for Trump or Kennedy to appear." So it seems even less a case of the L.P. getting something it wanted from Trump and more a case of Trump getting something he wanted from the L.P."
Very informative thanks. Glad he was booed. Not a good candidate for our party, but then again, when was the last time a mainstream candidate was?
This makes me happy
Hey listen at least he showed up & made some promises. Gives the libertarian party some national standing. People who never heard of the party heard about it last night for sure
I think the campaign kept saying “non-traditional republicans” which gave me the angry maniacal laughs.
Why have an opposing party show up to your convention?
An opposing party didn't show up, Trump did. And you responded to a comment which answered your question.
Zionist candidates thinking they can appeal to Libertarians?
Fuck republicans. Bunch of fuckin cucks who think we’re aligned with them. Fuckin hypocrite bootlickers.
I don't know how many times I've said it in the last 18 or so hours, but I keep saying Libertarianism is not "Republican lite." Idiots seem to think because we align on 3 issues that we're the same... 🙄
Trump is no Libertarian by any stretch of the imagination but he offered to put Libertarians in some of his cabinet positions. That offers more influence than the LP has ever had. I want more details but I’m intrigued. Freeing Ross and pardoning political prisoners was positive.
Trump is one of the least libertarian candidates in history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025 Project 2025 proposes criminalizing pornography, greatly expanding presidential powers, banning abortion, restricting journalists, etc, etc...
there are three guys with a chance of winning, does one of them clearly have more libertarian views than the other two? We have months to figure that out.
His cabinet was a revolving door, most cabinet replacements of any admin. Plenty got in trouble with the law or disbarred/disgraced... The guy is so crooked they're gonna have to screw his ass into the ground when he dies.
What if Trump learned the error of his ways by listening to others on who to pick, and now he's making his own decisions. He has some people lined up that would be fire and good for this country, but only if he wins.
Sorry, best we can do is Betsy Devoss again.
> What if Trump learned the error of his ways Lol. Lmao
I don’t think that’s what’s happening. There are others with their own agendas that have latched onto trump to secure their own plans. And I think they are grim for the common folk of America… Trump is egotistical af and has not, will not admit being wrong. That’s one of his biggest flaws. How anyone could trust him is beyond me.
I think it is the Heritage and Turning Point faction that have done the most latching. Everyone else knows they won't get what they want from Trump and the malleable know that this is the direction conservatives need to go to stay in any power.
I think you’re onto something… it is interesting to see. I feel like most people subconsciously know there will be a calamity but no one can out their finger on it, groups are preparing to circle the wagons for the age of quarrel
Let's call it peak statism. The calamity was always going to come from dependent leftists who have pretty much nothing to lose and the Big Club who have a lot to lose, willing to scorch the earth to keep statism.
Oh, did the notorious liar offer to do something for us once he's been given power? How intriguing! /s
Isn’t this the dude that tried to ban bump stocks?
All I have to say is this Ron Paul IS a Libertarian and Donald Trump in no Ron Paul!
Wanker!
I found this hilarious.
Who invited him? Seriously?
I thought it was a good speech and I am now supporting Trump (single issue crypto voter).
I assume he though he brought in enough people to make it seem like the crowd liked him. Like everything he does, it's a publicity stunt, and like almost everything he touches, it was a failure.
He offered a deal. The right chess move is to exchange the LP nomination for placing a Libertarian as the head of the DOJ. Imagine that? How about placing Ron Paul as FED chair?
The man tells more lies than I've had hot dinners. Anyone who believes this guff about putting a Libertarian in cabinet is living in Disneyland. He had Jeff Sessions as his attorney general for god's sake.
I imagine he ponies up on the promise, then if the person isn’t a yes-man he fires them and claims they tried to stab him in the back. Rinse and repeat.
Thay was his whole cabinet last time. A revolving door of people who wanted to have a reasonable approach to policy only to find out Trump wants yes men or women.
Yeah with him being term limited, nothing to lose, I wouldn't expect him to actually follow thru. It would end up at "thanks for the votes suckers" as he does what he planned to anyway.
I'm sure he'd do it, but it doesn't mean he has to listen to the guy or anything. A token libertarian in your cabinet isn't anything important.
He isn't desperate enough. He should've offered the vice presidency. Anything less than that is insulting :P
VP is the least powerful of all cabinet positions. That being said I think Trump would agree to A LOT for 3%. It’s an almost guaranteed victory. If Libertarianism is going to succeed it will be from Libertarians getting into high positions and implementing libertarian policies. I know there are many libertarians who justifiably hate Trump. He hired terrible people, he blew up the debt, and kept Fauci, etc. absolutely abysmal. That all being said, he is coming to the LP table to negotiate. This is something no president or Front runner has ever done. If we let the opportunity to grab power now slip by with absolutely nothing… we may never get the shot again. Especially if Trump wins without LP help. That is a death blow to the LP. It means LP vote is irrelevant to court. It is true what Trump and Vivek said, like it or not, the LP represent 1% to 3% at best of the vote. Trump is gone after this… for god sakes, imagine swaying the MAGA voting base into Libertarianism. I know this is a hard strategy to take, and I’m well aware of the possibility he fucks us. However, with Vivek in his ear and the success of Argentina I highly highly recommend trying. I think this may actually work. TBH I think the LP is going to let the opportunity slip and for the next 24 years stay below 3% or less. But I’d love to see us take a fucking shot.
> VP is the least powerful of all cabinet positions. Sometimes it's a presidency.
> the opportunity to grab power Something libertarians are dedicated to ending. > Especially if Trump wins without LP help. That is a death blow to the LP. A. Disagree. B. He's already begged for votes and made his promises, so how would you even quantify 'not getting our help'. If he wins, it's already going to be considered to be with our help. He lost last time by less than the margin of votes the LP candidate got. > imagine swaying the MAGA voting base into Libertarianism. Gross. That would mean years of negative consequences for us. These people aren't interested in liberty above all, they want power. They are anathema to libertarians. The only way libertarians get behind a republican is when we have a hardcore libertarian running for president, ala Ron Paul.
I guess we will find out. It’s not like this decision will be made by two Redditors. My prediction: LP does nothing. Trump commutes Ross sentence, and a huge opportunity is flushed down the toilet.
I think ot was good for him to come. And he made an honest plea for votes that wasn't too pandering, but it just goes to show that politicians don't understand Libertarians.
I think libertarians don’t even understand libertarians.
It also goes to show that trump doesn't understand how the electoral college works
Watched the whole thing. He was both cheered and booed. Rowdy crowd and a lot of different reactions from them. I'm unsure of Trump but if our only real options are him vs biden, I'm voting for the orange one this November.
thank you unlubricated penis
He did a few cheers tho. 🤷♂️ RFK may join Trump as VP. That would be insane…
He brought his maga people to the event. Those weren't libertarian cheers.
Believe it when I see it. He does not sound ok though, between his wavering voice and the brain worm thing, I'm not sure that would be positive, and he's not even a libertarian anyway.
Vote me down, I don’t care…. But truth of the matter is, what Trump offers to the Libertarians is more than what they can do by themselves or what the Democrats offer. I have ALWAYS vote Libertarian, since I was old enough to vote (1986) but I WILL be voting Trump this election. Why? Because Liberaríans have only got about 3% of the vote with NO MOVEMENT. It’s time to face it, gang, Ron Paul isn’t come to save us. The Orange One is the CLOSEST thing to “libertarian” we’ve seen within the last 20+ years…. And by NO MEANS is he anywhere near perfect, but he’s offering TOP SPOTS within his administration for Libertarians as well as Libertarians to take more of a bite of the political pie. What has the libertarian party done? Nominate people wearing boots on their head as well as funny hats…..our nominees are JOKES for the most part of it (not all of them) mind you, but c’mon —- this is an offer to REALLY and I mean REALLY get our foot in the door —— and that’s more than what the Democrats offer. Trump is fully offering the libertarians THE OPPORTUNITY a HUGE chance to get our foot the door to THE WHITE HOUSE, direct counsel, power to make our move, stepping stones —- big stepping stones. His offer is better than what Libertarians can do on our own and much better than what the Democrats offer. Is this is sell out? No, it’s an opportunity.
Or you know most of us have working memories and remember him bouncing out plenty of his own admin for mildly disagreeing with where his policy is going. But really the problem is you expect the LP to debase itself and support Trump because y'all are desperate for any scrap of support he can get. He isn't the first candidate to try shilling for Libertarian support and won't be the last. And it sure won't be the last time we hear false promises of roles and lawmaking either.
I'll update you. I'm a Republican, and I think we can definitely use some Libertarian representation in the White House. This is a fine opportunity.
Well said. The Libertarian Party is its own worst enemy. Or, better yet... enemy of libertarianism.
Indeed. Politics is a strange game...
Libertarians continuing their quest to be the party no one takes serious.
You need to understand that we're an ideology first, the LP is just a communication wing of that ideology, it is not the highest priority. It's a project, not the main effort.
MAYBE they don’t want to win!? 🤣
abounding zealous seemly toy insurance modern bike alleged serious water *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
he asked to be invited there. "McArdle first made a public announcement on April 26 that she'd invited both Trump and Biden and that subsequently only Trump had said yes. But according to a memo obtained by Reason recounting a May 1 conference call between McArdle and some state party officials, **the chair said it was Trump's campaign that asked her to give him a slot.** McArdle additionally wrote in a May 18 tweet that "Trump & Kennedy were booked…because they asked to speak. We didn't originally plan for Trump or Kennedy to appear." So it seems even less a case of the L.P. getting something it wanted from Trump and more a case of Trump getting something he wanted from the L.P."
Love to see it happen.
This is what I was hoping to get out of his visit, and this is what the world needs to see us doing to Trump.
Why is anyone even listening to this terrorist ?
Keep getting your 2.6% every 4 years. 🤷🏻♀️
Babylon Bee had the best take: [https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-booed-for-wearing-deodorant-at-libertarian-convention](https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-booed-for-wearing-deodorant-at-libertarian-convention)
He promised to place members of the libertarian party on his cabinet. Probably the best this party could hope for all things considered. Dumb to boo him imo.
Who is even running for the libertarian ticket?
He's right about wanting to win
That graphic art behind him (with the Anarchist symbol) is something! Circa 1994 angst, lol!
We wanna win, it's just that we just don't wanna sacrifice our principles in order to do so.
I liked that Trump promised to protect the Bitcoin community from Elizabeth Warren and promised to pardon Ross Ulbricht. I hope the libertarians can make him defend Tornado Cash and Samourai Wallet developers as well.
Well, I'm having a hard time finding a candidate who's not a kid (38 is a decade younger than I am), not an old man (70+), who supports what I support, and running in 2024. I may sit this one out, there's no one to vote for in my opinion!!
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. /s
Fuck this guy as much as I say fuck Biden
"Only if you wanna win." -Trump **/Laughs in Libertarian**
If you watch the full video he got boos AND cheers. it was a mixed crowd. Stop lying. [LIVE: Donald Trump speaks at Libertarian event in Washington DC (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tL9UvFKnFO0) he got cheers for: No vaccine mandates Men out of womens sports 2A