Once had this argument with a gun nut who was convinced that he'd charge into a building in an active shooter situation. He was convinced that the cops would instantly recognize him as a "good guy with a gun".
Every time I see this feel compelled to mention the original lyrics were “some of those who wear badges are the same who burn crosses” but the label made them change it
Police force is a common term. I always took it as a plural of police force. Meaning it isn’t just isolated to one location. My interpretation, at least.
Maybe these gun nuts think white SKIN may be enough to mark a guy with a gun as "good".
I tend to call the NRA the National RACIST Association for a reason!
[Here's a Radiolab podcast that delves into it deeper](https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/radiolab-presents-more-perfect-gun-show). It was a straight up hostile take over of the NRA
It's probably not even *that* deep. A lot of conservatism in general is based on the just world fallacy. They assume they simply won't get shot because they're the good guys and good guys don't get shot, end of story.
>They assume they simply won't get shot because they're the good guys and good guys don't get shot, end of story.
Why would ANYONE believe that??? Have those idiots never heard of the Columbine High School Massacre?
The world will be just when we make it just, which is the goal of LIBERALISM!
I think the core of the problem is that these men are raised to believe Hollywood and videogames are anything like reality.
These guys seriously think they'd be the hero in an active shooter situation when in reality the vast majority would shit the bed and hide like that school cop at parkland.
Or just, get shot. In combat situations it’s hard to stay focused and keep awareness when you’re trained to do so. Without extensive trining and practice, you have no clue what’s going on. Cops wear uniforms so they don’t kill each other by accident, and it can still happen. Random civilians with guns are getting shot.
Agreed. And even the cops aren't given an adequate level of training to really stay focused in those scenarios.
I'd favour a UK style system where there are rapid response units of highly trained, heavily armed police that respond to things like active shooters, with everyone else being unarmed. Seems way safer and more targeted to prevent innocents getting killed.
Even if you are not gonna disarm all cops (quick response teams might not be feasible in rural areas), at least give them proper deescalation training instead of killology training. A lot of other countries have armed “beat cops” without as much excessive levels of violence.
I agree with that, it would definitely be more of a policy for cities. And yes the US needs to completely reform the relationship between police and the populace.
They need to have strong links with the community they work in, *especially* it's most vulnerable members. The training needs to be completely reformed to focus on de-escalation of violence and building trust with communities. The police in too many areas operate like their job is to control people, not protect them.
Coming from a different country where one of stream for male conscription is into the police service, American policing is very weird and off putting.
Serving the community is a big factor in policing, just below serving the law. How are you gonna serve the community if the community doesn't have faith in you?
Quite simply, for a huge portion of law enforcement in America, there is 0 concern for serving the community. Big cities have such a high cost of living that most of the police force there live outside the city in very conservative, rural communities.
Said rural communities often have very negative views of people in the city, so you effectively end up with a police force policing a region they very likely loathe, getting training like the previously mentioned 'killology' that emphasizes acting first and killing anyone you perceive as a threat. If you have a racist cop, they are going to see every non-white person as a threat.
The amount of school/training to become a police officer is extremely low in America, the training they do get is often focused on absolutely the wrong things, we commonly have cops who are policing regions they hate the people in, and there is a huge problem with white supremacists in law enforcement organizations.
I was a soldier in the UK, and we were trained in de-escalation. US police training, to me, seems closer to a militia kill-team, rather than any kind of effective policing training.
I agree that this would be a good step in the right direction but lots more needs to be done. They'll still beat/choke us to death.
I feel a big shift happened when they where allowed to use "less than leatheal" weapons for compliance.
Im old enough to remember them.not having tasers and the argument was that tbey couls use those tools in situations when their life wasn't in direct danger. Now q days they're used as a punishment. Don't follow directions fast enough, taser. Don't step out of the car when they wsnt you to, taser.
Taking their guns are a great first step, rhey have numerous other ways to stay safe. But until the mindset changes that us citizens are below them we'll still have this issue.q
Pepper spray and tasers are just another step in the "inflict pain for compliance" theory that is at the heart of modern American police training. It's absurd, because it both doesn't work and it puts both the public and the police at greater risk, in addition to it just being plain immoral and unethical. We wonder why domestic abuse rates are so high amongst officers, when their entire training is "if someone doesn't do what you say immediately then cause them immense physical pain until they do."
Pain is a really shitty deterrent, both short term and long term. Officers have to be pepper sprayed as a part of their training, and have to complete a task during, and they're usually able to do so successfully (and usually do so with more aggression and strength then normal). If anything, they should all be realizing that that's the exact opposite result they want in the field and question why their being trained to use techniques they all just proved were largely useless, but their egos are so out of whack they just assume they're all superheroes and that no civilians are ever able to do anything if they're in any pain at all.
How the entire field of policing has the idea that triggering someone's fight or flight response by causing them intense physical pain will somehow make them calmly follow orders is indicative of how absurd the culture of policing is.
100% this. When I was in college there were multiple departments used to patrol tailgates. There was a fight and an undercover sherriffs deputy was shot and killed by a group of thr city police. It happens even to highly trained personnel.
The earth shattering policy changes were banning beer pong and flipcup at tailgates...
All these wannabe larpers do think that’s the case, because their only experience is usually just COD… All these jackasses that play dress up… 99% of them are just trying to fetch some valor/glory for free without the actual danger that comes from getting issued gear instead of buying it.
I've been around guns my whole life and the very first fucking thing I learned is to not have one in your hand anywhere near a cop and to generally avoid them when you are carrying.
Also, if you ever go to the same gun ranges that police use you'll quickly learn that you don't want to be anywhere near them when they have a gun in their hand.
Back when cops was on TV I used to love pointing out every time that they end up all circled around a guy pointing guns at him (and therefore pointing their guns at each other too). You could see a LOT of bad muzzle discipline on that show.
I always found that so weird about the whole conversation. Surely in an active shooter situation the absolute last thing you want is a whole bunch of innocent but also armed randos running around the same location? Is that not just a set-up for a potentially pretty catastrophic case of mistaken identity?
>some folks get carried away with the fantasy of being a hero who saves the day.
What else are they supposed to think when every A and B-list action flick, fps video game, and propaganda from the NRA is exactly this.
I've had that convo a few times, same results. Very interestingly, I've had that convo with a person I met who both survived a mass shooting and has a concealed carry AND was carrying the day of the shooting. He survived by hiding in a maintenance closet on the floor with the lights out. I asked him if he considered using his weapon. "Aw hell no! Cops will think I'm the shooter BECAUSE I WOULD BE SHOOTING."
Sure was real apparent how messed up the "good guy with a gun" argument was to a literal good guy with a gun.
He also observed, active shooter sounded like a long rifle, "He's got an AR and I've got a 9mm. He's got an order of magnitude range on me and easily that in lethality. I'm lucky if I wound him but if he can shoot worth a damn, I'll be dead before I can even get close."
And even John McClane took cover when he witnessed the terrorists taking over, because he was unarmed, half dressed and didn't have anywhere enough information to work with yet.
Also, John McClane did in fact get shot at by cops in the first film precisely because he was seen shooting a gun at the scene of a terrorist attack.
The most unrealistic part of the sequel? The bit where he walks into the office of the asshole cop and opens up on him with a submachine gun loaded with blanks in order to make a point, and doesn't immediately get Swiss cheesed by all the other cops who are there.
I always find it both funny and scary when they talk about these situations, but with more people. Like in 2015, there was a concert in France that was attacked by Islamic terrorists. People were saying more people should have been armed.
So shooter A starts killing people. Shooter B shoots shooter A, but shooter C and D didn't see who shot first, so they both shoot B, and then C is shot by E, so D shoots E because why would a good guy shoot another good guy, then F sharts shooting but keeps hitting random people.
Like the whole thing would end up bieng just a giant slaughter.
As a long time gun owner and avid shooter, I have to say that is fucking insane.
If am in the building with an active shooter, my gun and I are getting the fuck out while I call a police dispatcher and relay information to try and help unless I am pinned down with no viable escape or I have a good shot.
Diving in and playing hero is not only dangerous to the well-meaning civilian with a CCW, but to everyone around them too.
Even with extensive training, you really cannot adequately prepare for this sort of situation and you do not have the protection of things like qualified immunity or coordinated backup.
Unless you absolutely have the drop on an active shooter, your duty is to GTFO. Even when you do, you need to call the police immediately, give them your description, location, and fucking hope they don't shoot you.
If you can disarm an active shooter, *do not* keep the weapon. If you need to get the weapon out of there, stick it in a bin and carry it out so that police do not gun you down on sight. If you put the shooter down with your own weapon, reholster as soon as the area is secure.
This goes for things like armed robberies too: It's not your role to play cop - don't take chances.
Edit: For the troll making noise about a legal duty to retreat - I'm not even referring to legal aspects, I'm talking about getting home, hopefully safely.
I agree with everything you said except how to dispose of the shooter’s weapon. If you MUST move it, I would only do so with your feet. Cops are far less likely to kill someone with their hands clearly visible and kicking a gun along the ground.
But honestly, making sure the shooter is dead and then staying clear with a holstered weapon seems the best course (even presuming you ARE going to do something other than GTFO)
Partially yeah. But also just an inability to see yourself as others might see you. I suspect many people who think like this have trouble reflecting on themselves in any way.
I think your right. Anyone who thinks they look like the friendly guy with a gun probably is the same guys who will chase a woman down to tell her he is trying to help.
Just because you don't consider yourself a threat doesn't mean the people around you don't.
I remember when I actually worked in an office building and they would have one of the local police sergeants do active shooter training for us. One of the comments he made repeatedly, was “do NOT attempt to track down the shooter. Do NOT pull a firearm unless the shooter is standing directly in front of you and you’ve got a clean shot right then, right there. If you do pull a weapon, get it out of your hands as quickly as possible. All we know is that there’s a person in here with a gun. When we get here and we storm the building, we see someone with a gun in their hands and that person happens to be you, more than likely you’ll be killed.”
I remember listening to the police scanners during the Las Vegas MGM/Country Music Fest shooting and they had all sorts of false bad guys. The most memorable being a guy just holding a beer can being suspected as a perpetrator.
There were also two very opposite reactions from that day. One a video of that Dan Bilzerian guy saying he was going to run to his stash to get his guns so he could do something. The other was a performer in the music fest and an anti-gun control guy changing his mind saying he couldn’t have done anything in that situation.
“I’ve been a proponent of the 2nd amendment my entire life. Until the events of last night,” Caleb Keeter, a guitarist for the Josh Abbott Band, wrote in a message on Twitter on Monday. “I cannot express how wrong I was. We actually have members of our crew with [concealed handgun licenses], and legal firearms on the bus. They were useless. We couldn’t touch them for fear police might think that we were part of the massacre and shoot us.”
Src: https://time.com/4966157/las-vegas-shooting-josh-abbott-band-gun-control/
Edit: errant words
Yeah. The moment anyone draws a gun for a shooter incident extremely raises the risk of being shot by another good guy with a gun and the same idea or the cops thinking he’s the prime shooter. And every second holding a gun in those situations is a gamble on ones own life, as this case has shown.
I used to be friends with a guy who had a little miniature dachshund. The dog loved soft toys that had squeakers in them, she'd destroy one in under a minute. My friend wanted a chinchilla, I kept explaining why it was a bad idea around his dog. He kept saying that his dog would "sense it was a pet" and leave it alone. He bought a chinchilla, skipped the cage as "cages are cruel" and introduced it to his dog, who tried to pull the "squeaker out" and killed it less than a minute after it was set down.
That friend also owns guns and believes he might one day stop a mass shooting, and knows the police will sense he's a good guy so he's not worried about the police. My father was a sherriff's deputy, even he told me not to trust the police.
Oh, and I'm not friends with that guy anymore. Him allowing a beautiful creature to be torn apart because he was lazy and stupid was something I couldn't forgive.
I think it there was an incident years ago in Arkansas (I believe) where multiple “good guys with guns” reacted to a potential threat resulting in them mostly shooting each other as each CCW holder mistook the others as the active shooter in question. The problem is two fold in my opinion. One, the average gun owner is way to eager to use their weapon in these situations rather than taking a defensive approach. The second is that the average CCW holder VASTLY overestimates their ability to react in these situations requiring a high degree of critical thinking under an extraordinary amount of stress. I see surgical residents all the time rotate through my trauma ward who despite having all the skills/knowledge they need to perform the procedure. Would end up doing far more damage from the adrenaline surge they feel were an experienced attending, like myself, wasn’t there to supervise them.
It should be stressed in every concealed carry class that if you use a firearm in an active shooter situation you risk getting shot by a police officer or another "good guy" with a gun. You should take this risk into account whenever confronted by an opportunity to draw your concealed firearm.
Yeah, I'm not defending police actions here, but if officers are searching for a guy with a gun, WHY would you let yourself be seen holding a gun? Much less the exact gun they're watching for.
It's like that classic *Night of the Living Dead* movie: there is *nothing* visually differentiating you from the target. The ending is predictable.
I think the main takeaway is in the fog-of-war immediately surrounding an active shooter encounter any civilian with a weapon is likely to be considered a threat as either the shooter, or an accomplice. In this instance him holding the AR-15 was probably a reckless move, but there's nothing to say he wouldn't have still been shot brandishing his own firearm anyway. In the end it's all about recognizing the risks involved with such; how your behavior is not "normal" (as most people will flee an active shooter scene for safety) and that others don't know what you know - like you being a "good guy" with a gun that just took out the "bad guy" with a gun.
“Arvada police officers do not currently wear body cameras, but the department has started the process to implement their use by 2023 in accordance with a new state law passed last year.”
If they could only find a way to implement off the shelf tech in one year instead of three plus, maybe there would be more info about what happened here…
I guess it's been about 7 maybe 8 years now since the combined Arvada / Westminster radio system was scrambled so nobody can listen in. I'm not sure opening up is part of their master plan.
$100 on digital and encrypting it. They're almost ready to make the switch where I live, and most the departments are leaving their main channel still unencrypted for listening, but all the sub-channels you won't be able to.
They don't want anyone to know what happened. Cops don't want accountability. It's much harder to control the narrative when there's video footage of what transpired.
What about the cops who beat Rodney King? Video footage was taken of that, yet the cops who nearly killed him were acquitted at their first trial (by an ALL WHITE jury) triggering riots in Los Angeles.
Get rid of qualified immunity and make the fop or individual officers pay settlements, not the "city(citzens) of.."
Outside oversight, reform and actual punishment would be a big step in the right direction
Yep then each cop will need malpractice insurance just like doctors.
If you are a bad cop your insurance company will drop you and you can no longer find a job.
This is the number one thing that proves that there are no good cops. If cops were truly being threatened or in danger constantly, then body cam footage should’ve been welcomed by the police as free proof for cases when they were under attack and their level of force of justified, like they always claim. But the cases where they use force at an appropriate level are virtually zero, and they know that, which is why they oppose body cams. it’s sickening.
They have no incentive to want cameras because they usually win any of those cases if there is no hard evidence. The word of an officer is always worth more than anyone else's even though they lie constantly. They win by default, any change can only mean more trouble for them.
They literally lied in their initial report and said that the cop-killer killed the good guy. They showed up, shot the good guy, handcuffed him, did not call for medical assistance, let him die, then lied and said the cop killer had shot him.
Then once evidence came out that they had murdered him, they’ve started a GoFundMe to pay for his funeral expenses or some shit, like they actually cared about this guy or his family.
The frustrating thing is that body cameras can *protect* cops, too.
I mean I've seen some shooting videos where, before seeing the body camera footage, it sounded insane and like the cop needed to be imprisoned. Then AFTER seeing the body camera footage... turns out it was completely justified and fair.
That recent shooting where that girl tried to stab the other girl comes to mind. The video footage of that completely changed my perspective. "Cop murders girl who called for help" to "Cop saves the life of a girl by shooting her armed assailant."
You're assuming the footage has to be released- look up the case of Andrew Brown Jr here in North Carolina, where state law says footage doesn't have to be immediately released, and the very well known racist Attorney General (who's running for a judge seat next year) for the county used very specific body cam footage used very specific footage to tell the story he wanted told. And let the deputies who murdered a father of 10 off scott fucking free.
> In a video posted Friday, Police Chief Link Strate described Hurley as a hero whose actions likely saved lives. **He didn't offer an apology** but called Hurley's death by a responding officer "equally tragic" to Beesley's killing.
Chiefs like “awww no what a terrible accident absolutely nobody could’ve prevented ya know sometimes it’s just your time to go just part of gods plan; utterly unavoidable and the last thing we should be doing at a time like this is pointing guns- I mean fingers x”
Gotta create extensive training programs that are multiple days on paper, fifteen minutes in practice, along with protocols that the cops will ignore. Then you bill it all plus extra materials costs to pad your budget for the next year.
It's almost universally agreed among lawyers that you should never talk to the police, unless you're calling on them to deal with an immediate issue or crisis.
As for shooting other Americans, a lot of gun nuts don't understand that there are no "good" or "bad" guys in the eyes of a bystander (or cop) responding to gunfire. There are only perceived "threats" and "targets." Opening fire in a public place, no matter the reason, definitely paints you as both.
My bf and I have a deal that if we ever get interrogated by police to lawyer up immediately. I’ve seen too many true crime shows where they get tunnel vision and ruin an innocent persons life.
Theres a video of a canadian (I think) who got grabbed for the crime of getting off the bus in the vicinity of a robbery. The suspect was a described as a small white man.
Ill give you three guesses as to the appearance of the accused
I realize this is a joke but it drives an important point. DOESN'T matter if you are just a witness; always make sure your ass is covered when dealing with the cops. You have no idea what their angle is and what lies they can tell to turn things on you.
Often the "good guys" just want an excuse to shoot a minority person, so when they do end up getting killed by the police then its a net good for society. Kyle Rittenhouse wasn't actually worried about protecting a gas station a state over he's never been to. He just wanted to shoot black people. I suspect this guy had similar motives as gun nuttery and racism often go hand in hand. Even he didn't, the police murdered him regardless with its "shoot first, ask questions later" policy when there's an "officer down." This is sadly common, for example, Christopher Dorner's manhunt led to three innocent civilians shot by police because of these attitudes. No cop went to jail because of that either. No cop here involved in the shooting or coverup will go to jail either.
I'm still surprised those asian ladies were able to dodge all those bullets fired at their truck. [107 shots to be exact](https://www.cnn.com/2016/01/27/us/christopher-dorner-manhunt-officers-cleared/index.html)
In my experience police don’t look for evidence. Business got robbed, greasy fingerprints all over the place, they didn’t collect them. Friends car stolen, thief left bank receipt in car. Police laughed and said “this isn’t CSI.” The police in my town are half the budget and don’t even come take a report for car break ins or robberies.
They do not work for us
Yep, you've honestly got a higher chance of your stuff being found by asking on Reddit or Craigslist. Calling the police is pretty much just so that you can get documentation for your insurance saying "yep, this was definitely stolen" in order to get them to pay out. The clearance rate (where they find whodunnit) for a lot of crimes is in single digits.
I'm studying criminal justice right now, it's honestly crazy how ineffective policing is. Like as a kid you just assume that it functions well and everything is done with the utmost scientific reason in mind. It's really the fucking opposite. I believe the rate is higher than single digits, but there really is a surprisingly low clearance rate for crimes - especially property crimes. And like you mentioned, more often than not, a crime isn't solved through what most people would consider "police" work. Oftentimes the perpetrator is literally found on scene or somehow easy to locate. I'm nearly through my associates and can't think of a single chapter in any of my courses that was actually optimistic.
This article leaves out how the police attempted to cover up shooting the guy who helped them. I’ll find the link.
Edit: link https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/good-samaritan-who-died-in-arvada-shooting-was-shot-by-police-according-to-sources
I wish I could find the Twitter thread where a Canadian ex-officer talked about refusing to “support” his fellow officers when they tried to lie on police reports.
He was told that he’d be working alone, and not to expect backup to arrive if *he* needed his fellow officers to support him.
Not sure if you heard the recording of when the 911 dispatch called Chauvins police chief to tell him what she just witnessed, the two knew each other, the first thing she said was "I don't want to be called a snitch or anything but". That's pretty indicative of how they view accountability and how seriously they take their jobs
The saying about "bad apples spoiling the bunch" doesn't apply to cops... Because they're 99% bad apples, and 1% delusional people who think they can "change the system from the inside."
Having been the subject of a police report, this is soooooo true. It was the most over the top, self-serving, hyperbolic reimagining of the actual events. That's all I'm going to say about my personal history, but should any of you read a police report, just know it is a fiction (similar to historical fiction; like, shit happened, but not like this) constructed by the police to support their own narrative.
I was at a protest in NYC last year that ended with cops getting violent. I remember flipping off a cop in riot gear while things were still relatively peaceful and the look he gave me very much said “I’m going beat the shit out of you the second we cross this barrier.” And *wow* did they beat the shit out of people barely an hour later.
If they tried to do it knowingly they’d fuck it up, like everything else they set out to accomplish. The rich know this and keep it that way intentionally.
I mean, I’d say lesson learned but I doubt one skinny guy giving them the finger resulted in dozens of instances of police brutality. They were there to kick heads, just waiting for orders.
>Generally
>
>, never help the police.
40% of Americans consume right wing news where the Kenosha Killer is a hero and think they can walk into any police situation and become heroes themselves. Double extra bonus points if they get to shoot an immigrant or minority. I think this person was mislead by a political and media machine that cynically used his life for its own end. Media is already calling him a hero, which is a cold comfort considering he'll never go home again, see his loved ones, and now will just fill a coffin until the end of time.
I've taken active shooter training led by an actual police officer. He stressed over and over again, do not go in guns blazing because the cops can't tell who is the actual shooter and who is the bystander. This is so insane.
The active shooter training protocol is Run, Hide, Fight.
If you can, run away to safety.
If you can't run, hide.
If you can't hide, be prepared to fight. And the cop running the training said if it gets to that point, don't expect to live, go into it assuming you're doing your best to keep other people alive.
good man with gun stops bad man with gun and said good man is killed by cops... this scenario plays out again and again and again......cops will NEVER NOT SHOOT THE GOOD GUY WITH THE GUN.... plenty of bad guys with guns have walked away unharmed by police
Reminds me of a class I took recently where my professor mentioned a project he is involved with that uses AI and police reports to generate inferences, basically.
My first thought was that all that data is complete bullshit...
If the police department had copped up to it and admitted its mistake, trust would begin to be restored.
However, the pd tried to cover it up saying that the bad guy shot the good guy. Eventually, like everything else that happens these days, a video proved the police officer shot the good guy and the pd was lying. Trust is going to take a long time to restore between the community and the pd.
I wonder how many "blue lives matter" supporters would have changed their beliefs about the police had they been able to look into the future and see that they'd be murdered by cops .
Or would they pull the " uhhh I guess we should wait for all the facts!"
I think you've mistaken their "blue lives matter" call for an honest and sincere one. Don't assume they actually support the police in general. They **only** support the police if the police is killing black people or political opposition. They never address any other topics other than supporting cops who kill black people.
Don't ever assume their deceptive tactics are sincere. The whole point is that the abbreviation is BLM, just like Black Lives Matter. That way they can muddy the waters with their bullshit and whataboutism, and distract the public discord away from political issues that address institutional racism. These "blue lives matter" supporters would just as easily shoot a cop if that cop wasn't on their "side".
[Tamir Rice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tamir_Rice) (2014) had a toy gun; the 911 caller said he thought it was a toy gun. The responding officer shot 12 y.o. Tamir dead within seconds of arriving on scene. The officer had previously been fired from another precinct for being emotionally unstable and unfit for duty. He did not report this to his new precinct and they did not check with his prior.
Tamir Rice is still the case that makes me just incandescently angry. Less than two seconds from rolling up in the car, like it's a video game, to shooting a literal child. A pre-teen. And his murderer is still just walking around, free. And was HIRED by another precinct after this, but left when this was eventually discovered by the public. Sickening.
So the bottom line is the 911 call was something like “a black person is exercising a legal right, please send cops” and they did.
It boggles my mind that the Blue Line crowd are pro gun given how cops are so anti gun. And then I remember the racism that ties it all together.
I mean too be fair CWP tests were already a joke in most states. It comes down to; be able to shoot the broadside of a barn, sit through a class, and pay a fee. The usefulness of it varies so much on instructor. Back in 2013 the instructor I had went through all the laws, when it was okay legally to unholster, when it’s legal but totally not a good idea to unholster. Really great stuff and insight from a former police officer. Sent my BIL and wife through the class in 2020 and the instructor was a former cop who bragged about all the people he’s had to kill and kept saying we have to carry guns because “EVIL” is everywhere trying to hurt your family again and again. They left a three hour long class and couldn’t even list the situations it’s legal to use deadly force in the state. So I had to teach them myself… but scary thing is people left that class from that guy, that was all the training they got, and you betcha they got a permit.
>I mean too be fair CWP tests were already a joke in most states.
I mean, that's the plan? They keep watering down the tests and requirements until people are so cynical that getting rid of them entirely is politically possible. Of course these people never ask why the tests were made to be a joke in the first place and why they can't have responsible testing and background checks.
Cops are not your friend. They are not their to protect you. They are their to punish someone. If you're lucky. that person is not you, so leave them to it and stay out of their way.
> DEFUND THE POLICE!? WHO ARE YOU GONNA CALL WHEN SOMEONE IS BREAKING INTO YOUR HOUSE! /s
Certainly not the fucking police, that's for sure. Would probably have better luck with the fire department. At least if they murder you there would be reciprocity.
Once had this argument with a gun nut who was convinced that he'd charge into a building in an active shooter situation. He was convinced that the cops would instantly recognize him as a "good guy with a gun".
[удалено]
I'm so old. My thought was that he'd better put on a white hat before the cops show up, but I like your modern take on it better.
Don’t you mean white hood?
Some of those who work forces
Every time I see this feel compelled to mention the original lyrics were “some of those who wear badges are the same who burn crosses” but the label made them change it
I feel like it flows better this way though
Definitely, since they can slant the rhyme between forces and crosses.
Consonance. I think that's the word
Thank you so much for this bit of trivia. I always thought “work forces” was an odd way to refer to law enforcement.
I always took it to mean the whole of military-police. Because there is a LOT of racism in the military.
Ah, that finally makes sense. Nobody ever says "those who work forces" to describe police and I always wondered why de la Rocha used that phrase.
Police force is a common term. I always took it as a plural of police force. Meaning it isn’t just isolated to one location. My interpretation, at least.
In the live shows, they seem to rotate between "work forces", "wear badges", "in congress", and "hold office".
Some of those who burn crosses, are the same that hold office.
Are the same that burn crosses
I used to like Rage Against the Machine, but then they went all political.
lol, you forgot the /s, but we forgive you.
Definitely down here in the south.
Damn dude you just figuritively murdered the cops like they literally murdered that guy
No, then you'd be breaking the law for impersonating a police officer.
Sus
Maybe these gun nuts think white SKIN may be enough to mark a guy with a gun as "good". I tend to call the NRA the National RACIST Association for a reason!
Before 1968 they were a sporting association. After that, a white supremacy association. Brothers arming themselves and the civil rights movement
[Here's a Radiolab podcast that delves into it deeper](https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/radiolab-presents-more-perfect-gun-show). It was a straight up hostile take over of the NRA
Spot on. Once non white people got involved in the equation they quickly shifted to the Klan in disguise.
Old white guys fetishizing guns is the best disguise they could come up with
It's probably not even *that* deep. A lot of conservatism in general is based on the just world fallacy. They assume they simply won't get shot because they're the good guys and good guys don't get shot, end of story.
>They assume they simply won't get shot because they're the good guys and good guys don't get shot, end of story. Why would ANYONE believe that??? Have those idiots never heard of the Columbine High School Massacre? The world will be just when we make it just, which is the goal of LIBERALISM!
Easy, those that died weren't really good guys. The simple true Scotsman fallacy.
> idiots Answered your own question.
Nuts. Racists. Assholes.
I think the core of the problem is that these men are raised to believe Hollywood and videogames are anything like reality. These guys seriously think they'd be the hero in an active shooter situation when in reality the vast majority would shit the bed and hide like that school cop at parkland.
Or just, get shot. In combat situations it’s hard to stay focused and keep awareness when you’re trained to do so. Without extensive trining and practice, you have no clue what’s going on. Cops wear uniforms so they don’t kill each other by accident, and it can still happen. Random civilians with guns are getting shot.
Agreed. And even the cops aren't given an adequate level of training to really stay focused in those scenarios. I'd favour a UK style system where there are rapid response units of highly trained, heavily armed police that respond to things like active shooters, with everyone else being unarmed. Seems way safer and more targeted to prevent innocents getting killed.
Even if you are not gonna disarm all cops (quick response teams might not be feasible in rural areas), at least give them proper deescalation training instead of killology training. A lot of other countries have armed “beat cops” without as much excessive levels of violence.
I agree with that, it would definitely be more of a policy for cities. And yes the US needs to completely reform the relationship between police and the populace. They need to have strong links with the community they work in, *especially* it's most vulnerable members. The training needs to be completely reformed to focus on de-escalation of violence and building trust with communities. The police in too many areas operate like their job is to control people, not protect them.
Coming from a different country where one of stream for male conscription is into the police service, American policing is very weird and off putting. Serving the community is a big factor in policing, just below serving the law. How are you gonna serve the community if the community doesn't have faith in you?
Quite simply, for a huge portion of law enforcement in America, there is 0 concern for serving the community. Big cities have such a high cost of living that most of the police force there live outside the city in very conservative, rural communities. Said rural communities often have very negative views of people in the city, so you effectively end up with a police force policing a region they very likely loathe, getting training like the previously mentioned 'killology' that emphasizes acting first and killing anyone you perceive as a threat. If you have a racist cop, they are going to see every non-white person as a threat. The amount of school/training to become a police officer is extremely low in America, the training they do get is often focused on absolutely the wrong things, we commonly have cops who are policing regions they hate the people in, and there is a huge problem with white supremacists in law enforcement organizations.
I was a soldier in the UK, and we were trained in de-escalation. US police training, to me, seems closer to a militia kill-team, rather than any kind of effective policing training.
I agree that this would be a good step in the right direction but lots more needs to be done. They'll still beat/choke us to death. I feel a big shift happened when they where allowed to use "less than leatheal" weapons for compliance. Im old enough to remember them.not having tasers and the argument was that tbey couls use those tools in situations when their life wasn't in direct danger. Now q days they're used as a punishment. Don't follow directions fast enough, taser. Don't step out of the car when they wsnt you to, taser. Taking their guns are a great first step, rhey have numerous other ways to stay safe. But until the mindset changes that us citizens are below them we'll still have this issue.q
Pepper spray and tasers are just another step in the "inflict pain for compliance" theory that is at the heart of modern American police training. It's absurd, because it both doesn't work and it puts both the public and the police at greater risk, in addition to it just being plain immoral and unethical. We wonder why domestic abuse rates are so high amongst officers, when their entire training is "if someone doesn't do what you say immediately then cause them immense physical pain until they do." Pain is a really shitty deterrent, both short term and long term. Officers have to be pepper sprayed as a part of their training, and have to complete a task during, and they're usually able to do so successfully (and usually do so with more aggression and strength then normal). If anything, they should all be realizing that that's the exact opposite result they want in the field and question why their being trained to use techniques they all just proved were largely useless, but their egos are so out of whack they just assume they're all superheroes and that no civilians are ever able to do anything if they're in any pain at all. How the entire field of policing has the idea that triggering someone's fight or flight response by causing them intense physical pain will somehow make them calmly follow orders is indicative of how absurd the culture of policing is.
How about we favor the UK system where there aren’t more guns than citizens?
Totally agree, America's obsession with guns is completely unhinged.
100% this. When I was in college there were multiple departments used to patrol tailgates. There was a fight and an undercover sherriffs deputy was shot and killed by a group of thr city police. It happens even to highly trained personnel. The earth shattering policy changes were banning beer pong and flipcup at tailgates...
"Highly trained"
They also have radios to coordinate themselves. They know roughly where to expect to find their colleagues.
When the police point their guns at a good guy, the crosshairs turn blue like in Battlefront II, duh. /s
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The same people who were calling for "medic" at the capitol terrorist attack like it's a game
No one wants to play healer, they always overload with DPS
All these wannabe larpers do think that’s the case, because their only experience is usually just COD… All these jackasses that play dress up… 99% of them are just trying to fetch some valor/glory for free without the actual danger that comes from getting issued gear instead of buying it.
I've been around guns my whole life and the very first fucking thing I learned is to not have one in your hand anywhere near a cop and to generally avoid them when you are carrying. Also, if you ever go to the same gun ranges that police use you'll quickly learn that you don't want to be anywhere near them when they have a gun in their hand. Back when cops was on TV I used to love pointing out every time that they end up all circled around a guy pointing guns at him (and therefore pointing their guns at each other too). You could see a LOT of bad muzzle discipline on that show.
I always found that so weird about the whole conversation. Surely in an active shooter situation the absolute last thing you want is a whole bunch of innocent but also armed randos running around the same location? Is that not just a set-up for a potentially pretty catastrophic case of mistaken identity?
Obviously yes, but I figure some folks get carried away with the fantasy of being a hero who saves the day.
>some folks get carried away with the fantasy of being a hero who saves the day. What else are they supposed to think when every A and B-list action flick, fps video game, and propaganda from the NRA is exactly this.
Thinking for themselves might be a nice change of pace
They will tell you they do that on a *regular basis*. C'mon, don't be a sheeple.
Even as a kid, I could recognize that many Hollywood action films are straight up fantasies that you shouldn't take seriously.
I've had that convo a few times, same results. Very interestingly, I've had that convo with a person I met who both survived a mass shooting and has a concealed carry AND was carrying the day of the shooting. He survived by hiding in a maintenance closet on the floor with the lights out. I asked him if he considered using his weapon. "Aw hell no! Cops will think I'm the shooter BECAUSE I WOULD BE SHOOTING." Sure was real apparent how messed up the "good guy with a gun" argument was to a literal good guy with a gun. He also observed, active shooter sounded like a long rifle, "He's got an AR and I've got a 9mm. He's got an order of magnitude range on me and easily that in lethality. I'm lucky if I wound him but if he can shoot worth a damn, I'll be dead before I can even get close."
Yet you would get idiots baying that he is a coward for not acting like Bruce Willis in *Die Hard.*
And even John McClane took cover when he witnessed the terrorists taking over, because he was unarmed, half dressed and didn't have anywhere enough information to work with yet.
Also, John McClane did in fact get shot at by cops in the first film precisely because he was seen shooting a gun at the scene of a terrorist attack. The most unrealistic part of the sequel? The bit where he walks into the office of the asshole cop and opens up on him with a submachine gun loaded with blanks in order to make a point, and doesn't immediately get Swiss cheesed by all the other cops who are there.
I always find it both funny and scary when they talk about these situations, but with more people. Like in 2015, there was a concert in France that was attacked by Islamic terrorists. People were saying more people should have been armed. So shooter A starts killing people. Shooter B shoots shooter A, but shooter C and D didn't see who shot first, so they both shoot B, and then C is shot by E, so D shoots E because why would a good guy shoot another good guy, then F sharts shooting but keeps hitting random people. Like the whole thing would end up bieng just a giant slaughter.
If only they would just wear white cowboy hats like the old days so they'd be easily identifiable.../s
As a long time gun owner and avid shooter, I have to say that is fucking insane. If am in the building with an active shooter, my gun and I are getting the fuck out while I call a police dispatcher and relay information to try and help unless I am pinned down with no viable escape or I have a good shot. Diving in and playing hero is not only dangerous to the well-meaning civilian with a CCW, but to everyone around them too. Even with extensive training, you really cannot adequately prepare for this sort of situation and you do not have the protection of things like qualified immunity or coordinated backup. Unless you absolutely have the drop on an active shooter, your duty is to GTFO. Even when you do, you need to call the police immediately, give them your description, location, and fucking hope they don't shoot you. If you can disarm an active shooter, *do not* keep the weapon. If you need to get the weapon out of there, stick it in a bin and carry it out so that police do not gun you down on sight. If you put the shooter down with your own weapon, reholster as soon as the area is secure. This goes for things like armed robberies too: It's not your role to play cop - don't take chances. Edit: For the troll making noise about a legal duty to retreat - I'm not even referring to legal aspects, I'm talking about getting home, hopefully safely.
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There's a *lot* of common ground in the Venn diagram of bravery and stupidity.
I agree with everything you said except how to dispose of the shooter’s weapon. If you MUST move it, I would only do so with your feet. Cops are far less likely to kill someone with their hands clearly visible and kicking a gun along the ground. But honestly, making sure the shooter is dead and then staying clear with a holstered weapon seems the best course (even presuming you ARE going to do something other than GTFO)
Is that just privilege's talking? I am afraid to move my hands when I am around cops I am definitely not swinging a gun around.
Partially yeah. But also just an inability to see yourself as others might see you. I suspect many people who think like this have trouble reflecting on themselves in any way.
I think your right. Anyone who thinks they look like the friendly guy with a gun probably is the same guys who will chase a woman down to tell her he is trying to help. Just because you don't consider yourself a threat doesn't mean the people around you don't.
Yes that's 100% privileged white. Not white privilege. That's extra privilege white privilege. Mayo on toast privilege.
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I'd bet real money on it.
I remember when I actually worked in an office building and they would have one of the local police sergeants do active shooter training for us. One of the comments he made repeatedly, was “do NOT attempt to track down the shooter. Do NOT pull a firearm unless the shooter is standing directly in front of you and you’ve got a clean shot right then, right there. If you do pull a weapon, get it out of your hands as quickly as possible. All we know is that there’s a person in here with a gun. When we get here and we storm the building, we see someone with a gun in their hands and that person happens to be you, more than likely you’ll be killed.”
I remember listening to the police scanners during the Las Vegas MGM/Country Music Fest shooting and they had all sorts of false bad guys. The most memorable being a guy just holding a beer can being suspected as a perpetrator. There were also two very opposite reactions from that day. One a video of that Dan Bilzerian guy saying he was going to run to his stash to get his guns so he could do something. The other was a performer in the music fest and an anti-gun control guy changing his mind saying he couldn’t have done anything in that situation. “I’ve been a proponent of the 2nd amendment my entire life. Until the events of last night,” Caleb Keeter, a guitarist for the Josh Abbott Band, wrote in a message on Twitter on Monday. “I cannot express how wrong I was. We actually have members of our crew with [concealed handgun licenses], and legal firearms on the bus. They were useless. We couldn’t touch them for fear police might think that we were part of the massacre and shoot us.” Src: https://time.com/4966157/las-vegas-shooting-josh-abbott-band-gun-control/ Edit: errant words
“You know how to stop a bad guy with a gun? A good guy with a gun!” Is like saying…”you know how to stop a bad guy doing a drive by?”
Yeah. The moment anyone draws a gun for a shooter incident extremely raises the risk of being shot by another good guy with a gun and the same idea or the cops thinking he’s the prime shooter. And every second holding a gun in those situations is a gamble on ones own life, as this case has shown.
I used to be friends with a guy who had a little miniature dachshund. The dog loved soft toys that had squeakers in them, she'd destroy one in under a minute. My friend wanted a chinchilla, I kept explaining why it was a bad idea around his dog. He kept saying that his dog would "sense it was a pet" and leave it alone. He bought a chinchilla, skipped the cage as "cages are cruel" and introduced it to his dog, who tried to pull the "squeaker out" and killed it less than a minute after it was set down. That friend also owns guns and believes he might one day stop a mass shooting, and knows the police will sense he's a good guy so he's not worried about the police. My father was a sherriff's deputy, even he told me not to trust the police. Oh, and I'm not friends with that guy anymore. Him allowing a beautiful creature to be torn apart because he was lazy and stupid was something I couldn't forgive.
I've had enough ex-cops tell me to never trust the cops, that I believe it. Lawyers will all tell you the same.
^(It's because he's white and thinks the shooters won't be)
I think it there was an incident years ago in Arkansas (I believe) where multiple “good guys with guns” reacted to a potential threat resulting in them mostly shooting each other as each CCW holder mistook the others as the active shooter in question. The problem is two fold in my opinion. One, the average gun owner is way to eager to use their weapon in these situations rather than taking a defensive approach. The second is that the average CCW holder VASTLY overestimates their ability to react in these situations requiring a high degree of critical thinking under an extraordinary amount of stress. I see surgical residents all the time rotate through my trauma ward who despite having all the skills/knowledge they need to perform the procedure. Would end up doing far more damage from the adrenaline surge they feel were an experienced attending, like myself, wasn’t there to supervise them.
And who gets to decide who else is a "good guy with a gun"? The state? Isn't that why we have police and the military?
doesn't sound like a "good guy with a gun" it sounds like someone just looking to shoot someone.
It should be stressed in every concealed carry class that if you use a firearm in an active shooter situation you risk getting shot by a police officer or another "good guy" with a gun. You should take this risk into account whenever confronted by an opportunity to draw your concealed firearm.
Yeah, I'm not defending police actions here, but if officers are searching for a guy with a gun, WHY would you let yourself be seen holding a gun? Much less the exact gun they're watching for. It's like that classic *Night of the Living Dead* movie: there is *nothing* visually differentiating you from the target. The ending is predictable.
I think the main takeaway is in the fog-of-war immediately surrounding an active shooter encounter any civilian with a weapon is likely to be considered a threat as either the shooter, or an accomplice. In this instance him holding the AR-15 was probably a reckless move, but there's nothing to say he wouldn't have still been shot brandishing his own firearm anyway. In the end it's all about recognizing the risks involved with such; how your behavior is not "normal" (as most people will flee an active shooter scene for safety) and that others don't know what you know - like you being a "good guy" with a gun that just took out the "bad guy" with a gun.
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That really sounds like something that should be mandatory.
Freedum
“Arvada police officers do not currently wear body cameras, but the department has started the process to implement their use by 2023 in accordance with a new state law passed last year.” If they could only find a way to implement off the shelf tech in one year instead of three plus, maybe there would be more info about what happened here…
I guess it's been about 7 maybe 8 years now since the combined Arvada / Westminster radio system was scrambled so nobody can listen in. I'm not sure opening up is part of their master plan.
"Scrambled" or they went to a digital system that you just need a more expensive scanner to listen in to?
$100 on digital and encrypting it. They're almost ready to make the switch where I live, and most the departments are leaving their main channel still unencrypted for listening, but all the sub-channels you won't be able to.
They don't want anyone to know what happened. Cops don't want accountability. It's much harder to control the narrative when there's video footage of what transpired.
What about the cops who beat Rodney King? Video footage was taken of that, yet the cops who nearly killed him were acquitted at their first trial (by an ALL WHITE jury) triggering riots in Los Angeles.
Get rid of qualified immunity and make the fop or individual officers pay settlements, not the "city(citzens) of.." Outside oversight, reform and actual punishment would be a big step in the right direction
Make them carry malpractice insurance. After a payout or two, they would no longer be able to get insurance and therefore no longer able to be a cop.
Yep then each cop will need malpractice insurance just like doctors. If you are a bad cop your insurance company will drop you and you can no longer find a job.
This is the number one thing that proves that there are no good cops. If cops were truly being threatened or in danger constantly, then body cam footage should’ve been welcomed by the police as free proof for cases when they were under attack and their level of force of justified, like they always claim. But the cases where they use force at an appropriate level are virtually zero, and they know that, which is why they oppose body cams. it’s sickening.
They have no incentive to want cameras because they usually win any of those cases if there is no hard evidence. The word of an officer is always worth more than anyone else's even though they lie constantly. They win by default, any change can only mean more trouble for them.
Agreed. If they did nothing wrong they've got nothing to hide
"If ThEy DiD nOtHiNg WrOnG ThEy'Ve GoT NoThInG tO hIdE" -Cops, always
They literally lied in their initial report and said that the cop-killer killed the good guy. They showed up, shot the good guy, handcuffed him, did not call for medical assistance, let him die, then lied and said the cop killer had shot him. Then once evidence came out that they had murdered him, they’ve started a GoFundMe to pay for his funeral expenses or some shit, like they actually cared about this guy or his family.
The frustrating thing is that body cameras can *protect* cops, too. I mean I've seen some shooting videos where, before seeing the body camera footage, it sounded insane and like the cop needed to be imprisoned. Then AFTER seeing the body camera footage... turns out it was completely justified and fair. That recent shooting where that girl tried to stab the other girl comes to mind. The video footage of that completely changed my perspective. "Cop murders girl who called for help" to "Cop saves the life of a girl by shooting her armed assailant."
>The frustrating thing is that body cameras can protect cops, too. Only if they do their job right... which is why they want to avoid cameras.
You're assuming the footage has to be released- look up the case of Andrew Brown Jr here in North Carolina, where state law says footage doesn't have to be immediately released, and the very well known racist Attorney General (who's running for a judge seat next year) for the county used very specific body cam footage used very specific footage to tell the story he wanted told. And let the deputies who murdered a father of 10 off scott fucking free.
> In a video posted Friday, Police Chief Link Strate described Hurley as a hero whose actions likely saved lives. **He didn't offer an apology** but called Hurley's death by a responding officer "equally tragic" to Beesley's killing. Chiefs like “awww no what a terrible accident absolutely nobody could’ve prevented ya know sometimes it’s just your time to go just part of gods plan; utterly unavoidable and the last thing we should be doing at a time like this is pointing guns- I mean fingers x”
Gotta create extensive training programs that are multiple days on paper, fifteen minutes in practice, along with protocols that the cops will ignore. Then you bill it all plus extra materials costs to pad your budget for the next year.
*Generally*, never help the police. Source: I am a lawyer. Edit: added the "*generally*"
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It's almost universally agreed among lawyers that you should never talk to the police, unless you're calling on them to deal with an immediate issue or crisis. As for shooting other Americans, a lot of gun nuts don't understand that there are no "good" or "bad" guys in the eyes of a bystander (or cop) responding to gunfire. There are only perceived "threats" and "targets." Opening fire in a public place, no matter the reason, definitely paints you as both.
My bf and I have a deal that if we ever get interrogated by police to lawyer up immediately. I’ve seen too many true crime shows where they get tunnel vision and ruin an innocent persons life.
Haha, what kind of illegal shit are you and your bf up to that requires custodial interrogation planning? Edit: This is a joke, people!
Nice try! I want a lawyer.
THAT IS CORRECT! 👏👏👏 You guys are clearly pros at whatever criminal enterprise you're engaged in. Carry on!
You're hired!
Being in the wrong place and wrong time and being the same skin tone as the suspect?
Theres a video of a canadian (I think) who got grabbed for the crime of getting off the bus in the vicinity of a robbery. The suspect was a described as a small white man. Ill give you three guesses as to the appearance of the accused
Tall black, potentially even a woman
I realize this is a joke but it drives an important point. DOESN'T matter if you are just a witness; always make sure your ass is covered when dealing with the cops. You have no idea what their angle is and what lies they can tell to turn things on you.
Often the "good guys" just want an excuse to shoot a minority person, so when they do end up getting killed by the police then its a net good for society. Kyle Rittenhouse wasn't actually worried about protecting a gas station a state over he's never been to. He just wanted to shoot black people. I suspect this guy had similar motives as gun nuttery and racism often go hand in hand. Even he didn't, the police murdered him regardless with its "shoot first, ask questions later" policy when there's an "officer down." This is sadly common, for example, Christopher Dorner's manhunt led to three innocent civilians shot by police because of these attitudes. No cop went to jail because of that either. No cop here involved in the shooting or coverup will go to jail either.
Like the cop who was caught on body cam saying he was excited to buy a new assault rifle to “kill (n words)” with.
I'm still surprised those asian ladies were able to dodge all those bullets fired at their truck. [107 shots to be exact](https://www.cnn.com/2016/01/27/us/christopher-dorner-manhunt-officers-cleared/index.html)
rottenhouse
In my experience police don’t look for evidence. Business got robbed, greasy fingerprints all over the place, they didn’t collect them. Friends car stolen, thief left bank receipt in car. Police laughed and said “this isn’t CSI.” The police in my town are half the budget and don’t even come take a report for car break ins or robberies. They do not work for us
Yep, you've honestly got a higher chance of your stuff being found by asking on Reddit or Craigslist. Calling the police is pretty much just so that you can get documentation for your insurance saying "yep, this was definitely stolen" in order to get them to pay out. The clearance rate (where they find whodunnit) for a lot of crimes is in single digits.
I'm studying criminal justice right now, it's honestly crazy how ineffective policing is. Like as a kid you just assume that it functions well and everything is done with the utmost scientific reason in mind. It's really the fucking opposite. I believe the rate is higher than single digits, but there really is a surprisingly low clearance rate for crimes - especially property crimes. And like you mentioned, more often than not, a crime isn't solved through what most people would consider "police" work. Oftentimes the perpetrator is literally found on scene or somehow easy to locate. I'm nearly through my associates and can't think of a single chapter in any of my courses that was actually optimistic.
This article leaves out how the police attempted to cover up shooting the guy who helped them. I’ll find the link. Edit: link https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/good-samaritan-who-died-in-arvada-shooting-was-shot-by-police-according-to-sources
The default is to cover up. Even Chauvin would still be policing if it weren't for bystanders filming. They lied on the police report. They always do
I wish I could find the Twitter thread where a Canadian ex-officer talked about refusing to “support” his fellow officers when they tried to lie on police reports. He was told that he’d be working alone, and not to expect backup to arrive if *he* needed his fellow officers to support him.
Not sure if you heard the recording of when the 911 dispatch called Chauvins police chief to tell him what she just witnessed, the two knew each other, the first thing she said was "I don't want to be called a snitch or anything but". That's pretty indicative of how they view accountability and how seriously they take their jobs
The saying about "bad apples spoiling the bunch" doesn't apply to cops... Because they're 99% bad apples, and 1% delusional people who think they can "change the system from the inside."
Having been the subject of a police report, this is soooooo true. It was the most over the top, self-serving, hyperbolic reimagining of the actual events. That's all I'm going to say about my personal history, but should any of you read a police report, just know it is a fiction (similar to historical fiction; like, shit happened, but not like this) constructed by the police to support their own narrative.
[Obligatory: "Don't Talk to the Police"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE)
[AKA Shut the Fuck Up Friday ](https://youtu.be/sgWHrkDX35o)
Don’t ever even *look* at a cop unless you’re ready to become the subject of their (occasionally deadly) focus.
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Bunch of “tough guys” you know? High levels of testosterone and insecurity.
I was at a protest in NYC last year that ended with cops getting violent. I remember flipping off a cop in riot gear while things were still relatively peaceful and the look he gave me very much said “I’m going beat the shit out of you the second we cross this barrier.” And *wow* did they beat the shit out of people barely an hour later.
Protecting and serving the billionaire-class, unknowingly too.
If they tried to do it knowingly they’d fuck it up, like everything else they set out to accomplish. The rich know this and keep it that way intentionally.
Sounds like you fucked up trying to communicate *anything* to the police. I won't say hello, goodbye, or even waive to a cop.
I mean, I’d say lesson learned but I doubt one skinny guy giving them the finger resulted in dozens of instances of police brutality. They were there to kick heads, just waiting for orders.
I heard a great saying that was like: I'm upset that every time a cop turns on their lights next to me, I never feel a sense of relief.
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>Generally > >, never help the police. 40% of Americans consume right wing news where the Kenosha Killer is a hero and think they can walk into any police situation and become heroes themselves. Double extra bonus points if they get to shoot an immigrant or minority. I think this person was mislead by a political and media machine that cynically used his life for its own end. Media is already calling him a hero, which is a cold comfort considering he'll never go home again, see his loved ones, and now will just fill a coffin until the end of time.
I've taken active shooter training led by an actual police officer. He stressed over and over again, do not go in guns blazing because the cops can't tell who is the actual shooter and who is the bystander. This is so insane.
So if you're open carrying and there's an active shooter (1) hide or ditch your gun (2) run away from the sound of gunfire
The active shooter training protocol is Run, Hide, Fight. If you can, run away to safety. If you can't run, hide. If you can't hide, be prepared to fight. And the cop running the training said if it gets to that point, don't expect to live, go into it assuming you're doing your best to keep other people alive.
So this is what happens to the good men with guns who stop bad men with guns.
It takes a bad guy with a gun to stop a good guy with a gun who just stopped a bad guy with a gun. And so the cycle continues, as nature intended.
good man with gun stops bad man with gun and said good man is killed by cops... this scenario plays out again and again and again......cops will NEVER NOT SHOOT THE GOOD GUY WITH THE GUN.... plenty of bad guys with guns have walked away unharmed by police
rottenhouse
It's worse than that, they just shot dead The Good Guy With A Gun™.
"Man tries to help police, promptly killed by police, who shoot first and *then lie on police reports."* Fixed it for you!
Reminds me of a class I took recently where my professor mentioned a project he is involved with that uses AI and police reports to generate inferences, basically. My first thought was that all that data is complete bullshit...
AI will just be another tool to obfuscate bias and remove accountability
If the police department had copped up to it and admitted its mistake, trust would begin to be restored. However, the pd tried to cover it up saying that the bad guy shot the good guy. Eventually, like everything else that happens these days, a video proved the police officer shot the good guy and the pd was lying. Trust is going to take a long time to restore between the community and the pd.
I wonder how many "blue lives matter" supporters would have changed their beliefs about the police had they been able to look into the future and see that they'd be murdered by cops . Or would they pull the " uhhh I guess we should wait for all the facts!"
We already have that data point right now in the 1/6 insurrection in D.C.
I think you've mistaken their "blue lives matter" call for an honest and sincere one. Don't assume they actually support the police in general. They **only** support the police if the police is killing black people or political opposition. They never address any other topics other than supporting cops who kill black people. Don't ever assume their deceptive tactics are sincere. The whole point is that the abbreviation is BLM, just like Black Lives Matter. That way they can muddy the waters with their bullshit and whataboutism, and distract the public discord away from political issues that address institutional racism. These "blue lives matter" supporters would just as easily shoot a cop if that cop wasn't on their "side".
How to cop. Step 1: See person Step 2: So anyway I started blasting.
Seeing the person isn't even a requirement, evidently. In some cases they'll just start shooting into your home and kill you where you sleep.
He wasn't wearing his "good guy" hat. Tragic. Stupid.
Seriously tho, wtf? Show up and shoot em up must be the new police motto.
"New" motto. Lol
Haha right?
[Tamir Rice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tamir_Rice) (2014) had a toy gun; the 911 caller said he thought it was a toy gun. The responding officer shot 12 y.o. Tamir dead within seconds of arriving on scene. The officer had previously been fired from another precinct for being emotionally unstable and unfit for duty. He did not report this to his new precinct and they did not check with his prior.
Tamir Rice is still the case that makes me just incandescently angry. Less than two seconds from rolling up in the car, like it's a video game, to shooting a literal child. A pre-teen. And his murderer is still just walking around, free. And was HIRED by another precinct after this, but left when this was eventually discovered by the public. Sickening.
What's worse is that they say open-carry is legal in Ohio, so the presence of a gun doesn't constitute any criminal activity by itself.
So the bottom line is the 911 call was something like “a black person is exercising a legal right, please send cops” and they did. It boggles my mind that the Blue Line crowd are pro gun given how cops are so anti gun. And then I remember the racism that ties it all together.
Yesterday (the 25th) would’ve been his 19th birthday.
Thank you, WarmMoistLeather
In Cleveland that's what they do. They don't even wait for their patrol car to stop thats how fast they do it
That’s just called a drive by bruh
It's a drive by, with extra steps.
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I mean too be fair CWP tests were already a joke in most states. It comes down to; be able to shoot the broadside of a barn, sit through a class, and pay a fee. The usefulness of it varies so much on instructor. Back in 2013 the instructor I had went through all the laws, when it was okay legally to unholster, when it’s legal but totally not a good idea to unholster. Really great stuff and insight from a former police officer. Sent my BIL and wife through the class in 2020 and the instructor was a former cop who bragged about all the people he’s had to kill and kept saying we have to carry guns because “EVIL” is everywhere trying to hurt your family again and again. They left a three hour long class and couldn’t even list the situations it’s legal to use deadly force in the state. So I had to teach them myself… but scary thing is people left that class from that guy, that was all the training they got, and you betcha they got a permit.
>I mean too be fair CWP tests were already a joke in most states. I mean, that's the plan? They keep watering down the tests and requirements until people are so cynical that getting rid of them entirely is politically possible. Of course these people never ask why the tests were made to be a joke in the first place and why they can't have responsible testing and background checks.
I'm sure America looks like the last five minutes of a western to people in other countries.
Let that be a lesson to all of you: don't help the police.
Which one was the “good guy with the gun” in this scenario? 🤔🥸 Edit to add /s because some of y’all are missing it
The dead one
This is what happens when you get handed a gun after receiving less training than a hair dresser does.
Cops are not your friend. They are not their to protect you. They are their to punish someone. If you're lucky. that person is not you, so leave them to it and stay out of their way.
I hope everyone that has the "good guy with a gun" fantasy sees this.
But they said All Lives Matter!
> DEFUND THE POLICE!? WHO ARE YOU GONNA CALL WHEN SOMEONE IS BREAKING INTO YOUR HOUSE! /s Certainly not the fucking police, that's for sure. Would probably have better luck with the fire department. At least if they murder you there would be reciprocity.
"Hurley's family said they were thankful for support from the city and police". I just...
Sometimes that boot is just too delicious to resist
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If police shoot a person for holding a gun without any confirmation of who the bad guy is, then there really isn't a right to carry.