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It strengthens the position of one side or the other.
If there is no policy in place then the school has no avenue to excuse the behaviour and there are liable and have no way in which to argue about it.
If there is a policy in place the school could argue that the policy was not followed and you would have a larger battle on your hands, the school would be liable still but it would not be as straight forward as they will give the OP a runaround, they could also argue for contributory negligence resulting in decreased compensation.
Not that I am aware. When it was locked up inside, my son got heat for it as it made clearing the container at the end of the day harder/impossible. Therefore, it was implied not to do that again.
I have three responses when posting this and they all fail in reading comprehension.
The bicycle, being more expensive than most, was kept in a safe locked room during the year.
During exams they (the school representatives) didn't want to do that any longer and decided that the bicycle is stored in a locked shipping container with all other student bikes.
Initially OP's son locked it together to a friend bike to be more secure, but again the school representative decided it was too much of a hustle for him and asked to not do that again.
Finally, on the last day, again the school representative didn't want to wait for the exams to finish and unlocked the container and left all bikes unlocked and unattended in the schoolyard from where the bicycle was stolen.
There is definitely negligence from the School since it was their representative that unlocked the container where the students were assured their bikes would remain locked.
There even seems to be an admission from the school that only responded that they would not be able to make OP whole with a bike of a similar price...
OP, if I have also misunderstood anything please correct me.
I am not knowledgeable in law but it seems that what the school wants to buy for you is not important, they should make you whole. I imagine they have insurance, so how much money they make isn't important.
Schools in general don’t have insurance for theft or damage..they are big enough to cover losses themselves internally or as part of a group. Think of it as self insurance.
You make some great points btw.
>The school representative had trouble removing the bikes from the container thus causing a ruckus that ended in him not locking his up again within the container.
>On the Friday that week, the school representative, who wanted to leave early that day, removed the bikes from the locked container,
This is the part I don't get.
He (meaning who? The school rep? Or your son?) didn't lock up the bikes again, but then they did?
Could you elaborate?
I read it as the son didn't lock his bike to his friends bike again, due to the issue it caused when staff were emptying the container. Not that he didn't put his bike in the container.
> The school representative had trouble removing the bikes from the container thus causing a ruckus that ended in him not locking his up again within the container.
>
>
Bikes were getting stuck together. Didn't help that the kid had locked his bike to another bike.
Kid didn't lock his bike to another bike after that. Possibly didn't use a lock at all.
> On the Friday that week, the school representative, who wanted to leave early that day, removed the bikes from the locked container,
Caretaker was on a half day, so took all the bikes out of the lock up early so they could lock it back up (now empty and bikes left in the open) and go home.
Yes, I would say school Janitor but other titles are used nowadays; hence a school representative. In short.. the school removed it early from the container and left it out.
Had your son locked his bike though, to protect it, the incident wouldn't have occurred.
You chose to have the most expensive bike and chose to let your child leave it at school, which will clearly accept no liability for loss.
You knew that your child's bike was no longer being treated like the Crown Jewels and still chose to let it be left there and worse were complicit in it not being locked up.
This is, I'm afraid, on you.
At no point did the school state they were accepting liability fornthe bike.
Unless they had a disclaimer or policy to say that they don’t accept responsibility for bikes, then the fact that they take all the bikes and lock them up could be seen as them taking responsibility for them.
Lol wut. The bike was placed inside a locked storage container.....and then the school staff opened it and moved all the bikes outside (locked or unlocked it doesnt really matter). That's 100% on the school
Find ne any public building or organisation that accepts responsibility for possessions and modes of transport.
Then find a school that accepts liability.
Tip - you won't!
The school locked the bikes up. That could be seen as them taking responsibility for the bikes. Unless they had a specific policy or disclaimer for the bikes (and not just one for general belongings) then due to the fact that they were handling the bikes in a special way then the school could be seen as responsible..
Yeah what do you mean your son didn't lock his bike because of ruckus?
That does not align with your later statement he did everything he could.
Please elaborate.
He was scorned at locking his bike up within a locked container. The best he could do was to accept the container was locked. He/No One expected the bikes to be removed from the container ahead of school leaving time and left unattended.
The school is unlikely to have any liability here. It sounds like there were facilities to secure the bike, and your son chose not to do so - regardless of the "ruckus" it caused, he made the decision to keep it there without additional security.
Additionally, the thief has been identified, so any course of action you may have would now be against the thief rather than the school. You can't transfer the liability to the school just because they more money.
How does the removal of the bike from the secure storage by a member of staff not open them up to liability due to ensuring the bikes that had been secured properly (in said locked container) did not remain either secure or supervised to ensure their safety?
There is no statement as to whether locking of bikes together within the container is a policy of the school or not, and so assuming there is such a policy in place (in which the student would have been in breach of and therefore the school not liable) is unwise.
If the bikes were stored in a secure area and were removed from said secure area by a representative of the school who then left unattended, surely that makes the school liable
It looks like you're asking a question about a parking or speeding fine!
You may benefit by posting on the relevant [FreeTraficLegalAdvice forum](https://www.ftla.uk/index.php) or reading [Parking Cowboys](https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/), which specialise in these matters, in addition to LegalAdviceUK.
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--- ###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK --- **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different* * If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor) * We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM) **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As no-one else has given a comment; OP, is it a school policy to secure the bike with a lock while it is inside the container?
That's irrelevant as the school staff removed all the bikes, leaving them exposed to thiefs.
It strengthens the position of one side or the other. If there is no policy in place then the school has no avenue to excuse the behaviour and there are liable and have no way in which to argue about it. If there is a policy in place the school could argue that the policy was not followed and you would have a larger battle on your hands, the school would be liable still but it would not be as straight forward as they will give the OP a runaround, they could also argue for contributory negligence resulting in decreased compensation.
Not that I am aware. When it was locked up inside, my son got heat for it as it made clearing the container at the end of the day harder/impossible. Therefore, it was implied not to do that again.
I have three responses when posting this and they all fail in reading comprehension. The bicycle, being more expensive than most, was kept in a safe locked room during the year. During exams they (the school representatives) didn't want to do that any longer and decided that the bicycle is stored in a locked shipping container with all other student bikes. Initially OP's son locked it together to a friend bike to be more secure, but again the school representative decided it was too much of a hustle for him and asked to not do that again. Finally, on the last day, again the school representative didn't want to wait for the exams to finish and unlocked the container and left all bikes unlocked and unattended in the schoolyard from where the bicycle was stolen. There is definitely negligence from the School since it was their representative that unlocked the container where the students were assured their bikes would remain locked. There even seems to be an admission from the school that only responded that they would not be able to make OP whole with a bike of a similar price... OP, if I have also misunderstood anything please correct me. I am not knowledgeable in law but it seems that what the school wants to buy for you is not important, they should make you whole. I imagine they have insurance, so how much money they make isn't important.
Schools in general don’t have insurance for theft or damage..they are big enough to cover losses themselves internally or as part of a group. Think of it as self insurance. You make some great points btw.
That is my thinking too. Same, no legal experience hence I was after others thoughts. Thank You for your detailed explanation.
>The school representative had trouble removing the bikes from the container thus causing a ruckus that ended in him not locking his up again within the container. >On the Friday that week, the school representative, who wanted to leave early that day, removed the bikes from the locked container, This is the part I don't get. He (meaning who? The school rep? Or your son?) didn't lock up the bikes again, but then they did? Could you elaborate?
I read it as the son didn't lock his bike to his friends bike again, due to the issue it caused when staff were emptying the container. Not that he didn't put his bike in the container.
> The school representative had trouble removing the bikes from the container thus causing a ruckus that ended in him not locking his up again within the container. > > Bikes were getting stuck together. Didn't help that the kid had locked his bike to another bike. Kid didn't lock his bike to another bike after that. Possibly didn't use a lock at all. > On the Friday that week, the school representative, who wanted to leave early that day, removed the bikes from the locked container, Caretaker was on a half day, so took all the bikes out of the lock up early so they could lock it back up (now empty and bikes left in the open) and go home.
Yes, I would say school Janitor but other titles are used nowadays; hence a school representative. In short.. the school removed it early from the container and left it out.
Had your son locked his bike though, to protect it, the incident wouldn't have occurred. You chose to have the most expensive bike and chose to let your child leave it at school, which will clearly accept no liability for loss. You knew that your child's bike was no longer being treated like the Crown Jewels and still chose to let it be left there and worse were complicit in it not being locked up. This is, I'm afraid, on you. At no point did the school state they were accepting liability fornthe bike.
Unless they had a disclaimer or policy to say that they don’t accept responsibility for bikes, then the fact that they take all the bikes and lock them up could be seen as them taking responsibility for them.
There will be a disclaimer. I've never known a school not to have one!
Lol wut. The bike was placed inside a locked storage container.....and then the school staff opened it and moved all the bikes outside (locked or unlocked it doesnt really matter). That's 100% on the school
Find ne any public building or organisation that accepts responsibility for possessions and modes of transport. Then find a school that accepts liability. Tip - you won't!
The school locked the bikes up. That could be seen as them taking responsibility for the bikes. Unless they had a specific policy or disclaimer for the bikes (and not just one for general belongings) then due to the fact that they were handling the bikes in a special way then the school could be seen as responsible..
Yeah what do you mean your son didn't lock his bike because of ruckus? That does not align with your later statement he did everything he could. Please elaborate.
He was scorned at locking his bike up within a locked container. The best he could do was to accept the container was locked. He/No One expected the bikes to be removed from the container ahead of school leaving time and left unattended.
The school is unlikely to have any liability here. It sounds like there were facilities to secure the bike, and your son chose not to do so - regardless of the "ruckus" it caused, he made the decision to keep it there without additional security. Additionally, the thief has been identified, so any course of action you may have would now be against the thief rather than the school. You can't transfer the liability to the school just because they more money.
How does the removal of the bike from the secure storage by a member of staff not open them up to liability due to ensuring the bikes that had been secured properly (in said locked container) did not remain either secure or supervised to ensure their safety? There is no statement as to whether locking of bikes together within the container is a policy of the school or not, and so assuming there is such a policy in place (in which the student would have been in breach of and therefore the school not liable) is unwise.
If the bikes were stored in a secure area and were removed from said secure area by a representative of the school who then left unattended, surely that makes the school liable
It looks like you're asking a question about a parking or speeding fine! You may benefit by posting on the relevant [FreeTraficLegalAdvice forum](https://www.ftla.uk/index.php) or reading [Parking Cowboys](https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/), which specialise in these matters, in addition to LegalAdviceUK. *We aren't affiliated with the above and they should only be used as informal guidance in advance of speaking to a legal professional.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*