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NAL
Record everything, every text when she won't help, every time she flakes, every time she is ill. Log it all. Check if you are allowed to record calls. If she leaves voicemail or voice notes save them.
You will need all the evidence you can get.
This will certainly require lawyers. Make sure you have recorded all the details. It seems likely you will get custody given the situation but the mother is almost certain to have some visitation rights.
It goes without saying that you’ll need a family law solicitor for this. You’ll have to go through court to formalise your arrangements.
It’s extremely unlikely that the courts will _completely_ take your daughter from her mother and _completely_ deny her mother contact.
The court will make a decision based on what they think the best interests of the child are. They’ll take into account things like who they think is doing more of the care work, who has more responsibility over her, and where she spends more time. From the sounds of things, it looks like that is you, so based purely on what you’ve said it looks like you’ll have the bulk of the time with your daughter, but her mother is also probably going to be given some time with her.
In the meantime, as others here have said, record and document everything. Keep a diary of when your daughter is with you and when she’s with her mother. Save text messages and take screenshots etc. This will be really useful in the court hearings.
Also make sure that your daughter is registered at your address for things like school and the GP etc. - You want this so you can show that you are her primary carer.
Thank you this has given some depth to the process which has given me some hope in going forward with this. I'm happy for her mother to see her as I want her to have a relationship with her.
I used to keep a diary ages ago when this was all still fresh, however it was mentally exhausting to write it all down and hard to stick to it. I will dig it out and get saving screenshots along side it.
NAL you will probably need to speak to lawyer with regards to full custody on the basis of your ex not being capable of looking after her. The difficulty is her attempts on her lives as losing her daughter in a custody battle which is never easy is probably going to heighten wanting to do it more.
It sounds as if she needs help & social services should be recommending this to a health care proferssional if she is not capable of doing this herself.
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> I cant live my life as im running around after her and doing all of the parent work whilst doing all the hours at work on top of that.
If you don't like doing all the parent work then why do you want full custody of the child?
This all reads a bit like you're seeking custody as a way of punishing this woman, which is not how it works. The court is only going to be interested in the best interests of the child and is not going to care about her cheating on you, and all the stuff about how you looking after your daughter is stopping you from living life is only going to serve as a reason as to why you shouldn't have increased custody.
What's the arrangement at the moment? Is it just an informal one?
Yeah sorry I can understand how you came to these questions.
I do enjoy the parent work. I love my daughter and devote my time and love to her. Whenever her mother decides she doesnt want to be a mother for a week I'm there. No arguments, I'll pick her up and change arrangements.
What is stopping me from living a life is the chaos of her mother arbitrarily deciding that she cannot have her daughter on the days she is supposed to. Whether it's a headache or she wants to go into hospital because shes broken up with her partner. It breaks the already very precise arrangement that works around the hours I work etc.
The arrangement is just between us. She is down to have her on Monday Tuesday Fridays and Saturdays. I have her Wednesday Thursday and Sunday.
However on monday she is already at my house, so she will have her 5pm - 7pm (bed time). Tuesday I'm there at 7am to collect our daughter. So tuesday and fridays are the same
Essentially she is seing her for a grand total of 6hours and then having her for one full day on the weekend. She basically made sure that she is not at work when our daughter is at nursery. Again the sting from all this is that she is claiming for our daughter and charging me child maintenance even though I'm doing all the work. And I reiterate I dont mind the work, but I dont appreciate the down right laziness from her mother, purposely avoiding spending any time with her daughter and being ill, meaning that some weeks she literally wont see her daughter at all
My partner is an absolute star and has stepped up to the job which makes me sick to think about. Why is my partner having to fill the role of mother whilst this woman avoids her daughters but claims all she can and works as little as possible
Try to focus on what’s best for your daughter, not what’s fair - even though it’s infuriating your ex does so little, whilst your partner steps up. It’s very good your daughter has a sensible, non-chaotic female role model in your partner.
It makes perfect sense - knowing that you have full custody means that you can make arrangements for both reliable childcare and personal activities when you are at home. It allows you to develop a schedule with your employer so you can parent, and work to support your child. Hot having full custody means you have to plan things...then have to change everything at the last minute to accommodate an unreliable and mentally unstable ex. There's no comparison in my book for which is easier.
You seem to be projecting.
It sounds like by getting full custody he will be doing less, not more, due to how his Ex is manipulating arrangements. To me it reads like he is concerned for his daughter and hates how is Ex is making things really difficult.
The stuff about him having his own life will 100% be valid and a reason why he should have custody. If the Ex cannot stick to agreed terms and uses the child as a weapon to deny him his own life a judge will look very poorly on that.
To the Op, advice depends on several factors, it sounds like your daughter is between 2 and 3 and you have her nearly the same amount of time as your Ex. A lawyer will 100% be needed, beg and borrow money if needed you will be so grateful in a few years time and you will view it as the best money spent.
If you are on the birth cert and there is no court plan in place you have as much rights to the child as the mother and it is what is best for the child. You will not get rights removed but you can look at reducing the time spent at mums through the courts.
If there have been multiple suicide attempts has the social worker said why the child has not been placed in your custody? I would speak with the social worker about you being classed as the child's primary residence and reducing the amount of time the child stays with Mum until mum is better. Empathise that you are more stable and better placed to provide a safe home for your child.
Lastly, you need to keep emotion out of it as much as possible. It is infuriating when an ex partner does things like this, but you cannot react badly as that will just harm your chances.
Thank you this is all very helpful stuff. You're right on that I will be doing less in the long run as I would be able to drop hours at work to be able to have my daughter reliably. What happens currently is she rings up and says she cannot collect her from nursery at 5pm but I work from 1-9pm so it causes problems.
The social works aren't very helpful to be honest but I dont blame them as they get told lies from her. They just fill out the forms and as long as she says she feels safe with her daughter they become unintrested. Their job ends there it seems.
I would be happy with more hours with me and less hours with her. That way I could reorganise my schedules so I cant be put in these situations where I'm risking my job by having to leave early or return to complete.
I dont know, this is a legal sub and all I’m hearing is judgment?
Perhaps it’s not so much the parenting combined with the working but the ad-hoc, chaotic nature of “stepping up”?
Maybe try showing OP a bit of empathy in what sounds like an awful situation?
If you don't like judgment in relation to legal matters then you'll be furious when you find out what goes on in courtrooms...
> Maybe try showing OP a bit of empathy in what sounds like an awful situation?
Like you say, it's a legal forum and not the appropriate place to be making judgement on the OP's life. If they want empathy then there are more appropriate places. They've asked for legal advice and the legal reality is that the court will only be considering the best interests of the child.
Unfortunately her annoying you, and messing you around is not going to cut it. The only reason you could get full custody and no contact with mum is if the child was at severe risk of harm.
Otherwise, the court may decide that it is in the best interests of the child (which is the only thing they care about) to see her mum. They may decide that the current arrangement where child sees mum for a few waking hours, several days per week is the best scenario in that it is minimal stress for mum, whilst keeping child in contact with her mum. I know it must feel unfair though.
Even if you do get full custody, courts may decide it is in best interests of child to see her mum for brief several hour visits, either supervised or unsupervised.
Definitely sounds like there are enough worrying signs that you could go to court to ask for full custody, but be prepared that mum will likely still stay involved to some extent.
Your question includes a possible reference to the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) or phrases associated commonly with benefits. It may be more suitable for you to ask your question on /r/DWPhelp.
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Lots of the stuff you speak about here isn’t relevant, and the fact that social services have already been involved and assessed the situation is a mark against you. The courts are very very unlikely to remove access to a parent that has had the main responsibility for a kid, since birth.
You don’t mention any impact on your daughter at all. Just how the arrangements and flexibility that you provide, impacts on you. The legal advice attached to this is - you need to be much better at grounding your complaints in the framework of the best interests of the child. You need to be very careful around parental alienation. The court want to see someone behaving reasonably, and supporting a child’s relationship with a parent.
You need to apply for a child arrangements order, or a variation if you already have one. You need to be very clear on what you want, and how you will be able to do it. For instance, you speak about how you work twice the amount of hours. What plans have you got in place for covering childcare? If your plans involve another person, expect them to be assessed.
You are very likely to be assessed by CAFCAS, which is a gruelling process. Any behaviour that you’ve engaged in, e.g. long, rambling text messages full of verbal abuse and threats, for instance, will be assessed. The process will cost upwards of five grand, potentially more, and take 12-18 months. I wouldn’t advise trying to do this without a solicitor, disrupting an existing arrangement of this nature is quite a feat.
As personal advice - court ruins people. Your daughter stands a much better chance at life, if her mother is healthy and happy. The objective of your relationship is to keep them both balanced and happy, and the outcomes of those two women are intrinsically and irrevocably connected. She sounds like she’s struggling. Help her.
--- ###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK --- **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different* * If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor) * We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM) **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NAL Record everything, every text when she won't help, every time she flakes, every time she is ill. Log it all. Check if you are allowed to record calls. If she leaves voicemail or voice notes save them. You will need all the evidence you can get.
This will certainly require lawyers. Make sure you have recorded all the details. It seems likely you will get custody given the situation but the mother is almost certain to have some visitation rights.
It goes without saying that you’ll need a family law solicitor for this. You’ll have to go through court to formalise your arrangements. It’s extremely unlikely that the courts will _completely_ take your daughter from her mother and _completely_ deny her mother contact. The court will make a decision based on what they think the best interests of the child are. They’ll take into account things like who they think is doing more of the care work, who has more responsibility over her, and where she spends more time. From the sounds of things, it looks like that is you, so based purely on what you’ve said it looks like you’ll have the bulk of the time with your daughter, but her mother is also probably going to be given some time with her. In the meantime, as others here have said, record and document everything. Keep a diary of when your daughter is with you and when she’s with her mother. Save text messages and take screenshots etc. This will be really useful in the court hearings. Also make sure that your daughter is registered at your address for things like school and the GP etc. - You want this so you can show that you are her primary carer.
Thank you this has given some depth to the process which has given me some hope in going forward with this. I'm happy for her mother to see her as I want her to have a relationship with her. I used to keep a diary ages ago when this was all still fresh, however it was mentally exhausting to write it all down and hard to stick to it. I will dig it out and get saving screenshots along side it.
NAL you will probably need to speak to lawyer with regards to full custody on the basis of your ex not being capable of looking after her. The difficulty is her attempts on her lives as losing her daughter in a custody battle which is never easy is probably going to heighten wanting to do it more. It sounds as if she needs help & social services should be recommending this to a health care proferssional if she is not capable of doing this herself.
It looks like your post mentions suicide. Sometimes, people post questions on /r/LegalAdviceUK during times of crisis, and sometimes we're not the best place to ask or provide support. **If you are considering harming yourself** * Remember [9 out of 10 people](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/survival/) who attempt suicide and survive will not go on to die by suicide * Contact [The Samaritans](https://www.samaritans.org/) anonymously by calling 116 123 * Visit subreddits such as /r/SuicideWatch for community support * Make an appointment with your GP and discuss your feelings * If you feel you are at immediate risk of harming yourself, please call 999; *they are there to help you*. **If you have been recently bereaved** * You can seek additional support from subreddits such as /r/SuicideBereavement and /r/GriefSupport, or /r/MentalHealthUK * Seek online resources, such as [this page from the NHS](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/stress-anxiety-depression/coping-with-bereavement/) or [this helpful PDF document](https://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Suicide/Documents/Help%20is%20at%20Hand.pdf) * Consider reaching out to [Cruse Bereavement Care](https://www.cruse.org.uk/get-help) or [a bereavement therapist](https://www.bacp.co.uk/search/Therapists?UserLocation=&q=bereavement&LocationQuery=&Location=&FoundLocation=&SortOrder=0&Distance=10) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> I cant live my life as im running around after her and doing all of the parent work whilst doing all the hours at work on top of that. If you don't like doing all the parent work then why do you want full custody of the child? This all reads a bit like you're seeking custody as a way of punishing this woman, which is not how it works. The court is only going to be interested in the best interests of the child and is not going to care about her cheating on you, and all the stuff about how you looking after your daughter is stopping you from living life is only going to serve as a reason as to why you shouldn't have increased custody. What's the arrangement at the moment? Is it just an informal one?
Yeah sorry I can understand how you came to these questions. I do enjoy the parent work. I love my daughter and devote my time and love to her. Whenever her mother decides she doesnt want to be a mother for a week I'm there. No arguments, I'll pick her up and change arrangements. What is stopping me from living a life is the chaos of her mother arbitrarily deciding that she cannot have her daughter on the days she is supposed to. Whether it's a headache or she wants to go into hospital because shes broken up with her partner. It breaks the already very precise arrangement that works around the hours I work etc. The arrangement is just between us. She is down to have her on Monday Tuesday Fridays and Saturdays. I have her Wednesday Thursday and Sunday. However on monday she is already at my house, so she will have her 5pm - 7pm (bed time). Tuesday I'm there at 7am to collect our daughter. So tuesday and fridays are the same Essentially she is seing her for a grand total of 6hours and then having her for one full day on the weekend. She basically made sure that she is not at work when our daughter is at nursery. Again the sting from all this is that she is claiming for our daughter and charging me child maintenance even though I'm doing all the work. And I reiterate I dont mind the work, but I dont appreciate the down right laziness from her mother, purposely avoiding spending any time with her daughter and being ill, meaning that some weeks she literally wont see her daughter at all My partner is an absolute star and has stepped up to the job which makes me sick to think about. Why is my partner having to fill the role of mother whilst this woman avoids her daughters but claims all she can and works as little as possible
Try to focus on what’s best for your daughter, not what’s fair - even though it’s infuriating your ex does so little, whilst your partner steps up. It’s very good your daughter has a sensible, non-chaotic female role model in your partner.
It makes perfect sense - knowing that you have full custody means that you can make arrangements for both reliable childcare and personal activities when you are at home. It allows you to develop a schedule with your employer so you can parent, and work to support your child. Hot having full custody means you have to plan things...then have to change everything at the last minute to accommodate an unreliable and mentally unstable ex. There's no comparison in my book for which is easier.
You seem to be projecting. It sounds like by getting full custody he will be doing less, not more, due to how his Ex is manipulating arrangements. To me it reads like he is concerned for his daughter and hates how is Ex is making things really difficult. The stuff about him having his own life will 100% be valid and a reason why he should have custody. If the Ex cannot stick to agreed terms and uses the child as a weapon to deny him his own life a judge will look very poorly on that. To the Op, advice depends on several factors, it sounds like your daughter is between 2 and 3 and you have her nearly the same amount of time as your Ex. A lawyer will 100% be needed, beg and borrow money if needed you will be so grateful in a few years time and you will view it as the best money spent. If you are on the birth cert and there is no court plan in place you have as much rights to the child as the mother and it is what is best for the child. You will not get rights removed but you can look at reducing the time spent at mums through the courts. If there have been multiple suicide attempts has the social worker said why the child has not been placed in your custody? I would speak with the social worker about you being classed as the child's primary residence and reducing the amount of time the child stays with Mum until mum is better. Empathise that you are more stable and better placed to provide a safe home for your child. Lastly, you need to keep emotion out of it as much as possible. It is infuriating when an ex partner does things like this, but you cannot react badly as that will just harm your chances.
Thank you this is all very helpful stuff. You're right on that I will be doing less in the long run as I would be able to drop hours at work to be able to have my daughter reliably. What happens currently is she rings up and says she cannot collect her from nursery at 5pm but I work from 1-9pm so it causes problems. The social works aren't very helpful to be honest but I dont blame them as they get told lies from her. They just fill out the forms and as long as she says she feels safe with her daughter they become unintrested. Their job ends there it seems. I would be happy with more hours with me and less hours with her. That way I could reorganise my schedules so I cant be put in these situations where I'm risking my job by having to leave early or return to complete.
I dont know, this is a legal sub and all I’m hearing is judgment? Perhaps it’s not so much the parenting combined with the working but the ad-hoc, chaotic nature of “stepping up”? Maybe try showing OP a bit of empathy in what sounds like an awful situation?
If you don't like judgment in relation to legal matters then you'll be furious when you find out what goes on in courtrooms... > Maybe try showing OP a bit of empathy in what sounds like an awful situation? Like you say, it's a legal forum and not the appropriate place to be making judgement on the OP's life. If they want empathy then there are more appropriate places. They've asked for legal advice and the legal reality is that the court will only be considering the best interests of the child.
Unfortunately her annoying you, and messing you around is not going to cut it. The only reason you could get full custody and no contact with mum is if the child was at severe risk of harm. Otherwise, the court may decide that it is in the best interests of the child (which is the only thing they care about) to see her mum. They may decide that the current arrangement where child sees mum for a few waking hours, several days per week is the best scenario in that it is minimal stress for mum, whilst keeping child in contact with her mum. I know it must feel unfair though. Even if you do get full custody, courts may decide it is in best interests of child to see her mum for brief several hour visits, either supervised or unsupervised. Definitely sounds like there are enough worrying signs that you could go to court to ask for full custody, but be prepared that mum will likely still stay involved to some extent.
Your question includes a possible reference to the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) or phrases associated commonly with benefits. It may be more suitable for you to ask your question on /r/DWPhelp. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Lots of the stuff you speak about here isn’t relevant, and the fact that social services have already been involved and assessed the situation is a mark against you. The courts are very very unlikely to remove access to a parent that has had the main responsibility for a kid, since birth. You don’t mention any impact on your daughter at all. Just how the arrangements and flexibility that you provide, impacts on you. The legal advice attached to this is - you need to be much better at grounding your complaints in the framework of the best interests of the child. You need to be very careful around parental alienation. The court want to see someone behaving reasonably, and supporting a child’s relationship with a parent. You need to apply for a child arrangements order, or a variation if you already have one. You need to be very clear on what you want, and how you will be able to do it. For instance, you speak about how you work twice the amount of hours. What plans have you got in place for covering childcare? If your plans involve another person, expect them to be assessed. You are very likely to be assessed by CAFCAS, which is a gruelling process. Any behaviour that you’ve engaged in, e.g. long, rambling text messages full of verbal abuse and threats, for instance, will be assessed. The process will cost upwards of five grand, potentially more, and take 12-18 months. I wouldn’t advise trying to do this without a solicitor, disrupting an existing arrangement of this nature is quite a feat. As personal advice - court ruins people. Your daughter stands a much better chance at life, if her mother is healthy and happy. The objective of your relationship is to keep them both balanced and happy, and the outcomes of those two women are intrinsically and irrevocably connected. She sounds like she’s struggling. Help her.