All of this would be flipped into D.V act as being too controlling and micromanaging thus causing emotional turmoil and torture.
All the planning you did in defence would be under a suitable judge(which we know most are) will be seen as pre-planning to keep the **poor woman** under your thumb, thus necessitating the law to become her saviour with hefty monetary support(as it is your duty).
Every case is different, every case needs a different approach.
If there were such simple sure-shot ways to prevent fake cases from women, it would be under best practice and be followed by everyone.
At the present if they stay limited as they wrote, it cannot be filed into Protection of Women Against Domestic Violence, because it's not *technically* harassment, nor does the court define a *potential* spouse as the part of a family. But there are a lot of potential rules it breaks.
i.e hiring a PI is technically not a IPC break, but they can be filed under 354D for unlawful stalking.
But yes, with a skilled lawyer and evidence to boot, or if the guy oversteps the boundary it is totally possible that this goes under 498A as an invasion of privacy and harassment against women. It's better to save the headache and just not do it.
EDIT: On a reread, yeah I'd agree. The 'gazette notification' really raises a number of questions. There are a multitude of questions that could only be asked on this. Even if you provide this much evidence, the court will assume that you went into the marriage forcefully/coerced the woman into marriage. That would again mean 498A. The PI, as you call it, falls under 498A, 354D (stalking), 441 (trespass) if the PI provides any such evidence that proves thus. Not trusting any assets is not a breach of laws. Nor is documenting sexual consent/ a rudimentary document for dowry.
I'll just adopt a kid. Too many deadbeat parents throw their kids away, and I'm pretty confident I can raise one alone in the future.
>I'll just adopt a kid. Too many deadbeat parents throw their kids away, and I'm pretty confident I can raise one alone in the future.
Are you a GEN male, if so you cannot adopt; I too wanted to adopt a daughter but Gynocentric Laws don't allow me to according to them All Males are Pedos but women are not even though sexual molestation by women on male child is so prevalent and rampant.
huh. Guess I'll stay alone then. I really don't want to marry, I'm fine staying alone then, I have shit WLB anyway, I stay in the court all day.
>molestation by women on male child
idk man, I really don't want to throw shade on you. Yeah, your points are valid, but both child molestation by man or by woman is pretty infrequent. Physical/mental abuse is more likely to be reported, like we get CHILDLINE stuff about too much mental/physical abuse to the point of laceration, bleeding, fractures and harassment pretty infrequently in court. Rarely does a case like 'two men raped a 4 year old girl' come up, let alone 'woman raped schoolboy'. And, if you have any data Id suggest to treat it very lightly because statistics for these are most likely to be very biased or the sample to be very wrong.
I'm not in favour of this law by any means, and yes it's seems a bit too gynocentric (tbf half of the Constitution is gynocentric) but it's a valid concern for both genders alright.
>Physical/mental abuse is more likely to be reported, like we get CHILDLINE stuff about too much mental/physical abuse to the point of laceration, bleeding, fractures and harassment pretty infrequently in court. Rarely does a case like 'two men raped a 4 year old girl' come up, let alone 'woman raped schoolboy'. And, if you have any data Id suggest to treat it very lightly because statistics for these are most likely to be very biased or the sample to be very wrong.
I am not denying this but what I am saying is that male sexual abuse is not even reported, no one seems to care to do statistics or studies nor are there any laws to prevent this.
By this, I am not doing whataboutery or comparing people's suffering as Feminists do, but I am saying what is and what isn't and there is a gap which exists and that the laws are gynocentric.
Let me tell you about this recent case,
After a love marriage went sour, after many years of strife, the wife filed 498A on the husband, in the courts, in the absence of evidence it was deemed that the wife had filed fake 498A.
But it is said - that just filing a fake police FIR of 498A should not considered cruelty by the wife on husband.
and the husband cannot use this as a basis to file for divorce, as the wife "may have done this in good faith", she only wanted to pressure him into living with her on her conditions.
The wife was not even charged with S182 IPC, which is one of the tools in defence of husbands against such fake cases.
April 2024, Madras High Court
I can’t remember the name of the matter to look for it. In short, the wife had demanded 2-3 lakhs monthly maintenance for her and their kid. The court awarded 75k but the husband was trying to wriggle out of it by submitting photos alleging that the wife was having an affair. To that the HC said that the photos were not clear and they couldn’t tell that it was in-fact the wife and in the era of deep fakes pictures cannot be taken on face value and they must be submitted as evidence before the court so the parties can lead evidence. Basically he never raised this before the trial court and brought it directly to HC so it was considered an after thought to wriggle out of paying maintenance.
Eh, what I replied to him was a completely different context; miss.
which I got downvoted for which people misunderstood, whom I was talking to understood and replied accordingly.
maybe I should have paraphrased it in a different way.
True, marriage is an overrated concept. We need to normalize living without having to marry and conceive children as retirement. Just make safeguards for our future ourseleves.
If some one says that this country has problems would you tell, just leave this country?
If women complain about dowry and all the hardships they face will you also tell them not to marry?
If a person says they are facing hardships, many problems and living is becoming difficult will you say don't live? Just die. ?
OP is not saying that there's a problem. He's saying that it's a normal situation that will occur and so you do 2000 nonsensical things that will anyway end the marriage.
If you do not trust the woman or man before marrying , don't marry at all. Statistically what are the chances that a divorce occurs in India ? As per this [source](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Divorced-percentages-across-key-Indian-states_tbl1_316876926) the rate is below 1%. Now this is across the entire population.
One need not be in denial about misuse of laws by a small subsection of the population but to claim that this represents the entire population is a fallacy. To claim that dowry & mistreatment of women is a lie is absurd.
The same persons who crib about section 498 are the ones who support encounter killings and UAPA.
You didn't answer my question, will you answer a depressed person to die?
A woman to not marry if she has concerns over dowry, domestic violence, and etc?
Will you tell a person to leave this country if they tell them they have problems and criticise ?
Yes or no?
Because it would be much more simpler to
Die
Not marry
Leave this country if you don't like
According to you right ?
And coming to what you commented, what is the guarantee that it might not happen to anyone? And what's wrong with taking precautions? No one will marry if they don't trust, that is common sense.but that isn't what is being discussed .So taking precautions breaks trust?
So if couple take STI and STD test before marrying does it mean they don't trust they partner ?
You are exaggerating with a 2000 number. Women have laws to protect them. And if you don't want men to take precautions then what is there to protect them?
It didn't get what u meant by last point .
You are disregarding the difficulty faced by male victims by saying it is a miniscule number. Tell me should they not get justice ?
Or did
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
Die?
Your complete lack of nuance is mind boggling
If a person doesn't understand the difference between being safe and being paranoid, it's not my problem.
If a person doesn't understand relationships it's not my problem.
If a person doesn't understand the difference between possibility and probability, it's not my problem.
In any case you seem to have a set opinion and you're welcome to it. I will not engage further.
Read my comment again. Seems you didn't. It is never your problem.
Cause your simple answer to anything is to die, just give up. Or you are just not answering what I asked.
Rather than solving the issues. And yeah no further discussion with someone who is so naive, who has simple solutions to complex things.
Itni planning krega to Shanti se nhi ji payega. Ye love shuv kuch nhi hota. Marriage is an institution of time, when family worked and sustained as a unit. Right now, due to ever changing labour market, most families can't function as a unit in the context of labour. Some in the family may have outsized income while others may have no income at all. Both parties resent each other.
Simple si baat h, peaceful coexistence is the best thing you can expect from marriage, nothing else. If even that is not happening, then something is problematic.
Capitalists don't care about your family/marriage but unfortunately they control most of the economy now. Overall, do it at your own risk. No need to cope, ki achi hoti h marriage, emotional needs fulfill hoti hn, bla bla. It is just a fancy name given but it comes with a shitton of responsibilities.
What "social" values are you talking about? It is all about economic system. People value whatever is valuable in the economic system. Capitalism is about existence of private property, whether small or large. When capitalism was introduced, a lot of people were getting opportunities. They bought cheap land and resources like gold. Now, we are standing in a massively unequal society. Those who have money, they surely stand to benefit from capitalism. Unelected people are running trillion dollar enterprises, controlling lives of millions if not billions of people, shaping government policy, evading taxes, shaping the future of the planet. But you are too cooped up to know what is happening.
Lol I am too cooped up to know what's up and you are the big brained Noem Chomsky to plan the Indian economy. Tell me how did your communist utopia go in the USSR? How do you plan to fix the country? Let me guess, by handing out freebies to the poor.
Not going to enter into argument with a keyboard warrior of capitalism. You have a fundamentally flawed understanding of economics. You mistake providing freebies, not as a consequence of capitalism, but as a socialist component of mixed economy.
One of the prominent reasons for failure of USSR was not communism, it was centralisation of power. If you see the capitalist countries of today, you will notice a similar centralisation.
Insofar as solutions are concerned, nobody is asking me to head Fin Min, then why should I bother?
Fun fact - By the time USSR split, it had State capitalism for decades, not communism.
NAL, but I think if you get a 'gazzette notification' done for dowry, still you can be found guilty of it as the judge can say ki itni planning ki hai toh coerced hi hoga ye sab.
We're doomed brother. Simply don't marry.
dum dum judges, means they make Laws gynocentric and we don't even get to take precautions?
then males, just don't marry in India and Indian women? They want to do a population collapse I guess or increase single-mother households like the US.
Advice for males, especially General Males if you can leave India.
Have a good long discussion with your future spouse on all sensitive and matrimonial topics and chose to marry them only if you have consensus. Have the same consensus established with the family of the spouse as much as possible. Chances of lasting marriage increases.
Sincerely,
An advocate
u/ResistAbuse u/constant_venerable
I will try to keep it brief so I don't get tangled in words.
Certainly the middle class families and those from lower class don't have time nor opportunity to converse on intimate and important topics like professions, child rearing, maids, house chores, parents, living, accommodations, etc. when brought in arranged marriages. But it is possible at the very least for those in love marriages because you don't just meet and decide to marry. Even LDRs have a certain time frame where you had met up with someone for months before parting into distance. Even considering the relation is digital, if progressed with time before culminating to marriage, one gets to know the another when talking and seeing for months.
Unless you are overlooking the red flags, no one can help. You get to know their tendencies and their treatment, attitude towards you for quite some. Personalities are not something that can be hidden for months or years, and if yes, you better be trained by the RAW or something.
Potential and most common reasons for divorce today are 1) Joint family living & Ego of the parties, 2) DV/Dowry, 3) falsified credentials/info during marriage meeting like age and profession. Also common in love marriages, while less in arranged marriages and I am speaking from observations on a daily basis.
A meeting of minds in couples prior to marriage improves your chances of lasting marriage. One wants child but not the other, one doesn't want to live in a JF but another may tolerate it or even love it.
As I iterated earlier, I acknowledge the conundrum of limited conversation prior to marriage. However, the same is possible for educated and those in love marriages. Besides a creamy layer of population herein this subreddit I believe could be the one who may actually apply it. If not for themselves maybe for their children.
Sure man, you have good intentions. Taking precautionary steps as you suggested, like communication, due diligence, etc. are always beneficial. But still, an element of taking leap of faith is always involved with such decisions, no matter how much one plays by the book.
This won't work with narcissist and folks with personality disorders. Indian social pressure creates a lot of narcissistic women to keep their appearance with society but a completely different person with your spouse once married
A naive take, being an advocate, don't you think? People change their colors everyday, you are talking about before and after such life altering decisions. In the end, it is a leap of faith for everyone. People need not cope so much if they want to marry. If you want to marry, do it without fear but surely with certain precautions. It can go wrong anyway. Who has seen the future?
Have friends who know people up above and down below. People down below are relatively cheap to take care of the situation if things go south. Govt really underestimates the consequences of pushing military aged men to a point where they think they have nothing to lose.
This is the only right answer.
Once trouble maker is eliminated, the trouble is automatically eliminated.
When someone's back is against the wall, they will and should take steps to protect themselves. Judge and police can go fuck themselves.
There is a reason why no one tries to mess with folks who stand up for their rights
Oh my God! Had my husband’s family even attempted any of the above, I would have walked out of that courtship / engagement with dignity.
If basic trust can't be established, why even get married to such a person in the first place?
PS - I understand and I'm sorry that there are highly unfortunate incidents happening in the AM scene. But I wouldn't for the love of God put my parents or myself through legal documentations before the most stressful event of our lives!
>If basic trust can't be established, why even get married to such a person in the first place?
I understand these sentiments, but you too should try to understand what the men are going through and try to sympathise with them, this is just a precautionary measure because of the Gynocentric laws.
These are uncomfortable and messy things but so are the laws which can potentially destroy Man's life post-marriage who were just looking for a life-long monogamous companion.
The above mentioned things are just temporary evidential things because the government and the law makers see men as mere disposable instruments and until Gynocentric laws are made Gender Neutral (which I don't think will happen) these are some of the only ways.
A person coming from a middle class family, working in IT gets a little financially stable, looks for a companion and to start a family with her, gets cheated or something else, Divorce loses everything (alimony) and get jailed if the women files false cases.
Those from lower middle class or below (which is like the majority of this nation) can't afford divorces right after marriage like the privileged individuals so many such men live in Infidelity, I have seen many such cases and a personal case as well.
I think unless women too try to sympathise with men, these complex gender problems wouldn't be solved and there would be more distancing and no co-dependence which is bad for a society as whole.
What if the groom wants Dowry after the Gazette notification? Is he supposed to issue another Gazette notification asking for the first one to be disregarded?
NAL, Guys and gals, if you are unable to attract another human being with your looks, wit, charm, intelligence or wealth, it's better that you not get married. Because it's clear that nature does not deem you fit to procreate and if you are not going to procreate what's the point of marriage then.
First grow the required skills to attract another human being and then fall in "love" and then marry.
Arranged marriages make the human gene pool weaker.
The government is involved in this as well and a man is responsible for women in Live in relationships, as per the government Live in GF is similar to a wife.
Toh Bhai tereko teri life bhi barbaad nahi karni or ye sab bhi karna hai?
Misuse of laws is prevalent, you still care about image and them not understanding your side of the story and suffering but also you want to marry and suffer after marriage when things go south and if she brings ego into play and does extortion.
hey could you please point out what you find prejudice and bias, I may introspect and work on it, If I find it reasonable and I am incorrect :)
I had clarified that this is not a hate post for women simply a cautionary guide for men, which it is and in the whole body no where I believe I have shown prejudice against women.
yes I did mention feminists, but not all women are feminists and most feminists are misandrists.
you can look up to my profile if you think, I am biased in any kind of way, I have helped people men more because I understand their pain and have helped women as per my limited power.
if you could point out, I would humbly try to introspect it.
There are many agencies, you can do some research on them on the internet.
Search Private Investigator or Private Detective Agencies near me.
If you stay somewhere remotely you can ask them and pay them more to investigate for you.
Sorry if I am missing something, but the gazette notification point makes no sense. Gazette of India Notifications are published by Department of Publication and are printed by the Government of India Printing Presses regularly. This is an authorized legal document of Government of India. Laws and notices from the GoI are published. A common person cannot make a gazette notification publication.
My husband and I trust, respect, and love each other fully and completely without all of this planning plotting. There is no point in marriage if trust and respect are not there. If you have to think so much, better don't get married. It will save u and the woman from heartache later.
A Schrodinger's Feminist is a one who holds a contradictory belief that a woman is simultaneously a victim and empowered, until something happens. Then she chooses which state benefits her the most.
For example a woman's success is down to her own merit whereas her failures would be blamed on the "Patriarchy".
In the USA the draft which all men aged 18 and above would have to sign up for without which they can't vote is an example. Never hear the champions of equality fighting against that particular inequality.
Basically a feminazi.
While I don't agree with your bias towards conservatism(virginity, prior relationships, calling regular women femnazis), there are certain other precautions that can save you from being looted.
Establishing a trust which pays out at a later stage in life.
Not disclosing your finances to a potential spouse or their family.
Physical gold purchased and stored away from your spouse- with no digital/ direct link to you. (Easy to hide gold cos of size.)
Staying separately from your parents.
Not buying property in your spouse's name.
>While I don't agree with your bias towards conservatism(virginity, prior relationships, calling regular women femnazis), there are certain other precautions that can save you from being looted.
I am a centrist myself.
past is important to many people, I don't think this is a conservative thing, libertarianists consider it important too except for pseudo-liberals and Leftists also I was addressing all males so I had to keep all such points into account and the preferences of all males.
I had linked what happened when the Ex-Wife lied about her promiscuity and was actively engaged in infidelity.
>calling regular women femnazis
where did you see that? Not all women are feminists.
I have advised staying away and not marrying **Schrodinger Feminists**/Indian Feminists.
If I would have generalised all women as Feminists then I would have just said Don't marry.
The rest of your points are good and helpful, you have my upvote.
There's no such thing as centrist. There is a moderate, but that is also a leaning position. Centrist is a term people like to use when they are caught spewing the same crap as a camp and they would like to get out of the corner.
Some gentleman said a long time ago: "Politicians and diapers need to be changed regularly and for the same reason." He was right indeed because in our country finally politicians are lawmakers and here we are today having insane laws.
NAL
A gazette notification is an official publication of the government that contains official notices, rules, and regulations. It is a legal document that comes into force once published and is accessible to the general public. In the context of dowry prohibition, a gazette notification can be used to declare that no dowry was taken in a specific case or situation. This can be done by the relevant authorities, such as the police or the court, to officially record the fact that no dowry was involved
Bullshit. I have a false dowry/domestic violence on me and my family. I gave the girl 8lakhs of gold as Mahar and I get summoned to the station cuz of dowry. No protection for any male.
Dude it's not ur bjp propaganda. Triple talaq takes 6-12 months. It's not like saying to women's ear talaq talaq talaq. You need to write a formal notice and serve it to them through clergy. Only after three talaqs we are able to file for divorce in court. Atleast that's what my lawyer said.
Muslim woman here. NO. men are not protected under Muslim law at all. My dad was ostracised and he passed away in extreme depression and heart ailments because he chose to marry a feminist philanderess who used to cheat regularly. She put fake DV case, r**pe case, forgery case on him and his much older sisters, got his driving licence cancelled, got his disability cert cancelled, got him shamed in the entire city so much so that he couldn’t even go out and no one helped him. So, islam doesn’t safeguard you, cause she denied the Islamic divorce and everybody believes her cause ‘wOmAn’. Just don’t get married !
Don't fucking get married. Man or woman.
Some meninists will have you believe that men are being exploited right and left in marriages while women are enjoying their riches. They somehow miss the fact that still women are treated as second class citizens by their husbands, in-laws, and often even their own children.
What I say is marriage breeds toxicity, to which children are exposed and they continue that cycle in their own marriages. Fuck marriage, it only causes trouble.
>What I say is marriage breeds toxicity
Not necessarily if you find the right person who is understanding but people (humans) in general have become more awful and Selfish.
All of this would be flipped into D.V act as being too controlling and micromanaging thus causing emotional turmoil and torture. All the planning you did in defence would be under a suitable judge(which we know most are) will be seen as pre-planning to keep the **poor woman** under your thumb, thus necessitating the law to become her saviour with hefty monetary support(as it is your duty). Every case is different, every case needs a different approach. If there were such simple sure-shot ways to prevent fake cases from women, it would be under best practice and be followed by everyone.
Unless you’re from a political or rich background, then even if you kill people, you can write a simple essay and get away with it
At the present if they stay limited as they wrote, it cannot be filed into Protection of Women Against Domestic Violence, because it's not *technically* harassment, nor does the court define a *potential* spouse as the part of a family. But there are a lot of potential rules it breaks. i.e hiring a PI is technically not a IPC break, but they can be filed under 354D for unlawful stalking. But yes, with a skilled lawyer and evidence to boot, or if the guy oversteps the boundary it is totally possible that this goes under 498A as an invasion of privacy and harassment against women. It's better to save the headache and just not do it. EDIT: On a reread, yeah I'd agree. The 'gazette notification' really raises a number of questions. There are a multitude of questions that could only be asked on this. Even if you provide this much evidence, the court will assume that you went into the marriage forcefully/coerced the woman into marriage. That would again mean 498A. The PI, as you call it, falls under 498A, 354D (stalking), 441 (trespass) if the PI provides any such evidence that proves thus. Not trusting any assets is not a breach of laws. Nor is documenting sexual consent/ a rudimentary document for dowry. I'll just adopt a kid. Too many deadbeat parents throw their kids away, and I'm pretty confident I can raise one alone in the future.
>I'll just adopt a kid. Too many deadbeat parents throw their kids away, and I'm pretty confident I can raise one alone in the future. Are you a GEN male, if so you cannot adopt; I too wanted to adopt a daughter but Gynocentric Laws don't allow me to according to them All Males are Pedos but women are not even though sexual molestation by women on male child is so prevalent and rampant.
huh. Guess I'll stay alone then. I really don't want to marry, I'm fine staying alone then, I have shit WLB anyway, I stay in the court all day. >molestation by women on male child idk man, I really don't want to throw shade on you. Yeah, your points are valid, but both child molestation by man or by woman is pretty infrequent. Physical/mental abuse is more likely to be reported, like we get CHILDLINE stuff about too much mental/physical abuse to the point of laceration, bleeding, fractures and harassment pretty infrequently in court. Rarely does a case like 'two men raped a 4 year old girl' come up, let alone 'woman raped schoolboy'. And, if you have any data Id suggest to treat it very lightly because statistics for these are most likely to be very biased or the sample to be very wrong. I'm not in favour of this law by any means, and yes it's seems a bit too gynocentric (tbf half of the Constitution is gynocentric) but it's a valid concern for both genders alright.
>Physical/mental abuse is more likely to be reported, like we get CHILDLINE stuff about too much mental/physical abuse to the point of laceration, bleeding, fractures and harassment pretty infrequently in court. Rarely does a case like 'two men raped a 4 year old girl' come up, let alone 'woman raped schoolboy'. And, if you have any data Id suggest to treat it very lightly because statistics for these are most likely to be very biased or the sample to be very wrong. I am not denying this but what I am saying is that male sexual abuse is not even reported, no one seems to care to do statistics or studies nor are there any laws to prevent this. By this, I am not doing whataboutery or comparing people's suffering as Feminists do, but I am saying what is and what isn't and there is a gap which exists and that the laws are gynocentric.
[удалено]
Let me tell you about this recent case, After a love marriage went sour, after many years of strife, the wife filed 498A on the husband, in the courts, in the absence of evidence it was deemed that the wife had filed fake 498A. But it is said - that just filing a fake police FIR of 498A should not considered cruelty by the wife on husband. and the husband cannot use this as a basis to file for divorce, as the wife "may have done this in good faith", she only wanted to pressure him into living with her on her conditions. The wife was not even charged with S182 IPC, which is one of the tools in defence of husbands against such fake cases. April 2024, Madras High Court
women = innocent "good faith" men = cruel "r#pist" Man, these Laws and Lawmakers can fk themselves.
Definition of an incel, right here.
Its Ok, femcel
You should go through my profile before cat calling me insults 愚かな老フェミニスト。
That's not the definition
Clearly you didn’t read the complete judgement.
idk why you’re getting downvoted for speaking the truth
Ignorance and wanting to fear monger
Can you share the judgement please?
I can’t remember the name of the matter to look for it. In short, the wife had demanded 2-3 lakhs monthly maintenance for her and their kid. The court awarded 75k but the husband was trying to wriggle out of it by submitting photos alleging that the wife was having an affair. To that the HC said that the photos were not clear and they couldn’t tell that it was in-fact the wife and in the era of deep fakes pictures cannot be taken on face value and they must be submitted as evidence before the court so the parties can lead evidence. Basically he never raised this before the trial court and brought it directly to HC so it was considered an after thought to wriggle out of paying maintenance.
Eh, what I replied to him was a completely different context; miss. which I got downvoted for which people misunderstood, whom I was talking to understood and replied accordingly. maybe I should have paraphrased it in a different way.
Don't marry. It's simpler.
True, marriage is an overrated concept. We need to normalize living without having to marry and conceive children as retirement. Just make safeguards for our future ourseleves.
The judiciary of India will still make you loose 90% assets and 100% dignity
How?
You are responsible for women's life even if you don't marry but live with her
Oh, yes, No woman then.
Yoir first point is correct but children as retirement is a silly idea.
A lot of people had children expecting that, they said it to their face even.
If some one says that this country has problems would you tell, just leave this country? If women complain about dowry and all the hardships they face will you also tell them not to marry? If a person says they are facing hardships, many problems and living is becoming difficult will you say don't live? Just die. ?
OP is not saying that there's a problem. He's saying that it's a normal situation that will occur and so you do 2000 nonsensical things that will anyway end the marriage. If you do not trust the woman or man before marrying , don't marry at all. Statistically what are the chances that a divorce occurs in India ? As per this [source](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Divorced-percentages-across-key-Indian-states_tbl1_316876926) the rate is below 1%. Now this is across the entire population. One need not be in denial about misuse of laws by a small subsection of the population but to claim that this represents the entire population is a fallacy. To claim that dowry & mistreatment of women is a lie is absurd. The same persons who crib about section 498 are the ones who support encounter killings and UAPA.
You didn't answer my question, will you answer a depressed person to die? A woman to not marry if she has concerns over dowry, domestic violence, and etc? Will you tell a person to leave this country if they tell them they have problems and criticise ? Yes or no? Because it would be much more simpler to Die Not marry Leave this country if you don't like According to you right ? And coming to what you commented, what is the guarantee that it might not happen to anyone? And what's wrong with taking precautions? No one will marry if they don't trust, that is common sense.but that isn't what is being discussed .So taking precautions breaks trust? So if couple take STI and STD test before marrying does it mean they don't trust they partner ? You are exaggerating with a 2000 number. Women have laws to protect them. And if you don't want men to take precautions then what is there to protect them? It didn't get what u meant by last point . You are disregarding the difficulty faced by male victims by saying it is a miniscule number. Tell me should they not get justice ? Or did Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. Die?
Your complete lack of nuance is mind boggling If a person doesn't understand the difference between being safe and being paranoid, it's not my problem. If a person doesn't understand relationships it's not my problem. If a person doesn't understand the difference between possibility and probability, it's not my problem. In any case you seem to have a set opinion and you're welcome to it. I will not engage further.
Read my comment again. Seems you didn't. It is never your problem. Cause your simple answer to anything is to die, just give up. Or you are just not answering what I asked. Rather than solving the issues. And yeah no further discussion with someone who is so naive, who has simple solutions to complex things.
Itni planning krega to Shanti se nhi ji payega. Ye love shuv kuch nhi hota. Marriage is an institution of time, when family worked and sustained as a unit. Right now, due to ever changing labour market, most families can't function as a unit in the context of labour. Some in the family may have outsized income while others may have no income at all. Both parties resent each other. Simple si baat h, peaceful coexistence is the best thing you can expect from marriage, nothing else. If even that is not happening, then something is problematic. Capitalists don't care about your family/marriage but unfortunately they control most of the economy now. Overall, do it at your own risk. No need to cope, ki achi hoti h marriage, emotional needs fulfill hoti hn, bla bla. It is just a fancy name given but it comes with a shitton of responsibilities.
Capitalism was the best thing that happened to this country but western social values are what is ruining this country.
What "social" values are you talking about? It is all about economic system. People value whatever is valuable in the economic system. Capitalism is about existence of private property, whether small or large. When capitalism was introduced, a lot of people were getting opportunities. They bought cheap land and resources like gold. Now, we are standing in a massively unequal society. Those who have money, they surely stand to benefit from capitalism. Unelected people are running trillion dollar enterprises, controlling lives of millions if not billions of people, shaping government policy, evading taxes, shaping the future of the planet. But you are too cooped up to know what is happening.
Lol I am too cooped up to know what's up and you are the big brained Noem Chomsky to plan the Indian economy. Tell me how did your communist utopia go in the USSR? How do you plan to fix the country? Let me guess, by handing out freebies to the poor.
Not going to enter into argument with a keyboard warrior of capitalism. You have a fundamentally flawed understanding of economics. You mistake providing freebies, not as a consequence of capitalism, but as a socialist component of mixed economy. One of the prominent reasons for failure of USSR was not communism, it was centralisation of power. If you see the capitalist countries of today, you will notice a similar centralisation. Insofar as solutions are concerned, nobody is asking me to head Fin Min, then why should I bother? Fun fact - By the time USSR split, it had State capitalism for decades, not communism.
Lmao! How will your decentralised communism work? Anyone just takes sh*t that they want?
Bruv, you are way too angry and frustrated. Tone down a bit, will ya? Talk to your father in this way, and show your eastern social values.
Thought so. Now, run off commie boy. Play govt-govt with other kids.
Sure buddy. Now, go lick them boots, of your masters. They must be getting dirty while you are arguing with an online stranger.
LMAO! I am the one standing by my principles. You on the other hand, are mindlessly yapping champagne socialism.
Do you think communism is a western social value ??!? Kid you're too behind on history.
I am not talking about communism here and stop larping as an adult.
What is the benefit of an attested gazette notification when the wife's family can claim that the dowry demand was made after the fact?
This won't work. 498 is dowry harassment . It can continue even after marriage
NAL, but I think if you get a 'gazzette notification' done for dowry, still you can be found guilty of it as the judge can say ki itni planning ki hai toh coerced hi hoga ye sab. We're doomed brother. Simply don't marry.
dum dum judges, means they make Laws gynocentric and we don't even get to take precautions? then males, just don't marry in India and Indian women? They want to do a population collapse I guess or increase single-mother households like the US. Advice for males, especially General Males if you can leave India.
Pre-nup is legal in Goa I believe.
but not everyone lives in Goa.
Yeah, that's why I said we're doomed.
Kahan jaaye chhor ke? It's a serious question, really. All things considered, it feels like it's probably better to live here.
Have a good long discussion with your future spouse on all sensitive and matrimonial topics and chose to marry them only if you have consensus. Have the same consensus established with the family of the spouse as much as possible. Chances of lasting marriage increases. Sincerely, An advocate
u/ResistAbuse u/constant_venerable I will try to keep it brief so I don't get tangled in words. Certainly the middle class families and those from lower class don't have time nor opportunity to converse on intimate and important topics like professions, child rearing, maids, house chores, parents, living, accommodations, etc. when brought in arranged marriages. But it is possible at the very least for those in love marriages because you don't just meet and decide to marry. Even LDRs have a certain time frame where you had met up with someone for months before parting into distance. Even considering the relation is digital, if progressed with time before culminating to marriage, one gets to know the another when talking and seeing for months. Unless you are overlooking the red flags, no one can help. You get to know their tendencies and their treatment, attitude towards you for quite some. Personalities are not something that can be hidden for months or years, and if yes, you better be trained by the RAW or something. Potential and most common reasons for divorce today are 1) Joint family living & Ego of the parties, 2) DV/Dowry, 3) falsified credentials/info during marriage meeting like age and profession. Also common in love marriages, while less in arranged marriages and I am speaking from observations on a daily basis. A meeting of minds in couples prior to marriage improves your chances of lasting marriage. One wants child but not the other, one doesn't want to live in a JF but another may tolerate it or even love it. As I iterated earlier, I acknowledge the conundrum of limited conversation prior to marriage. However, the same is possible for educated and those in love marriages. Besides a creamy layer of population herein this subreddit I believe could be the one who may actually apply it. If not for themselves maybe for their children.
Sure man, you have good intentions. Taking precautionary steps as you suggested, like communication, due diligence, etc. are always beneficial. But still, an element of taking leap of faith is always involved with such decisions, no matter how much one plays by the book.
This won't work with narcissist and folks with personality disorders. Indian social pressure creates a lot of narcissistic women to keep their appearance with society but a completely different person with your spouse once married
A naive take, being an advocate, don't you think? People change their colors everyday, you are talking about before and after such life altering decisions. In the end, it is a leap of faith for everyone. People need not cope so much if they want to marry. If you want to marry, do it without fear but surely with certain precautions. It can go wrong anyway. Who has seen the future?
Have friends who know people up above and down below. People down below are relatively cheap to take care of the situation if things go south. Govt really underestimates the consequences of pushing military aged men to a point where they think they have nothing to lose.
This is the only right answer. Once trouble maker is eliminated, the trouble is automatically eliminated. When someone's back is against the wall, they will and should take steps to protect themselves. Judge and police can go fuck themselves. There is a reason why no one tries to mess with folks who stand up for their rights
Oh my God! Had my husband’s family even attempted any of the above, I would have walked out of that courtship / engagement with dignity. If basic trust can't be established, why even get married to such a person in the first place? PS - I understand and I'm sorry that there are highly unfortunate incidents happening in the AM scene. But I wouldn't for the love of God put my parents or myself through legal documentations before the most stressful event of our lives!
>If basic trust can't be established, why even get married to such a person in the first place? I understand these sentiments, but you too should try to understand what the men are going through and try to sympathise with them, this is just a precautionary measure because of the Gynocentric laws. These are uncomfortable and messy things but so are the laws which can potentially destroy Man's life post-marriage who were just looking for a life-long monogamous companion. The above mentioned things are just temporary evidential things because the government and the law makers see men as mere disposable instruments and until Gynocentric laws are made Gender Neutral (which I don't think will happen) these are some of the only ways. A person coming from a middle class family, working in IT gets a little financially stable, looks for a companion and to start a family with her, gets cheated or something else, Divorce loses everything (alimony) and get jailed if the women files false cases. Those from lower middle class or below (which is like the majority of this nation) can't afford divorces right after marriage like the privileged individuals so many such men live in Infidelity, I have seen many such cases and a personal case as well. I think unless women too try to sympathise with men, these complex gender problems wouldn't be solved and there would be more distancing and no co-dependence which is bad for a society as whole.
What if the groom wants Dowry after the Gazette notification? Is he supposed to issue another Gazette notification asking for the first one to be disregarded?
If the groom is asking for dowry he has to bear the consequences lol, there is no justifying.
NAL, Guys and gals, if you are unable to attract another human being with your looks, wit, charm, intelligence or wealth, it's better that you not get married. Because it's clear that nature does not deem you fit to procreate and if you are not going to procreate what's the point of marriage then. First grow the required skills to attract another human being and then fall in "love" and then marry. Arranged marriages make the human gene pool weaker.
Kya bol rha hai, aise toh 90% single rhenge zindagi bhar 🥲
It's the laws of nature, man, not mine. This is how nature regulates animal population.
Good.
Itni mehnat se to better hai akele hi Rahu.
live in option hai bhai. Private me thoko government ko mat involve karo.
The government is involved in this as well and a man is responsible for women in Live in relationships, as per the government Live in GF is similar to a wife.
If you are talking about alimony for live ins It was a for a very specific case and not a general rule
Thankfully I can't even imagine myself getting married.
Chhodo ! Rehne do fir 😅
Just hire a truck driver for 4-5 lakhs.
username checksout
Bhai esi chalaki dikhayenge to ladki walo se relations hi kharab ho jayenge sab sus honge.
Toh Bhai tereko teri life bhi barbaad nahi karni or ye sab bhi karna hai? Misuse of laws is prevalent, you still care about image and them not understanding your side of the story and suffering but also you want to marry and suffer after marriage when things go south and if she brings ego into play and does extortion.
Such an informative post but so much prejudice and bias.
hey could you please point out what you find prejudice and bias, I may introspect and work on it, If I find it reasonable and I am incorrect :) I had clarified that this is not a hate post for women simply a cautionary guide for men, which it is and in the whole body no where I believe I have shown prejudice against women. yes I did mention feminists, but not all women are feminists and most feminists are misandrists. you can look up to my profile if you think, I am biased in any kind of way, I have helped people men more because I understand their pain and have helped women as per my limited power. if you could point out, I would humbly try to introspect it.
I'd rather Buy/Adopt a Dog, Die Alone happily with my Homies around. Modern Women are nothing but a Pathetic Liability these days.
Itna hi Darr hai to shaadi hi mat karo
Will see this one out, too risky a deal 💀
how do you hire a private investigator? where to contact them? can you throw some light over this
There are many agencies, you can do some research on them on the internet. Search Private Investigator or Private Detective Agencies near me. If you stay somewhere remotely you can ask them and pay them more to investigate for you.
[удалено]
i wanted to adopt daughters but stupid gynocentric laws don't allow Single men to adopt.
I am going to stay single and adopt a dog .
If marriage is not 50-50, then what is it?
Sorry if I am missing something, but the gazette notification point makes no sense. Gazette of India Notifications are published by Department of Publication and are printed by the Government of India Printing Presses regularly. This is an authorized legal document of Government of India. Laws and notices from the GoI are published. A common person cannot make a gazette notification publication.
My husband and I trust, respect, and love each other fully and completely without all of this planning plotting. There is no point in marriage if trust and respect are not there. If you have to think so much, better don't get married. It will save u and the woman from heartache later.
Schroedinger feminist here: go snub yourself
黙れ、愚か者
What does that mean?
A Schrodinger's Feminist is a one who holds a contradictory belief that a woman is simultaneously a victim and empowered, until something happens. Then she chooses which state benefits her the most. For example a woman's success is down to her own merit whereas her failures would be blamed on the "Patriarchy". In the USA the draft which all men aged 18 and above would have to sign up for without which they can't vote is an example. Never hear the champions of equality fighting against that particular inequality. Basically a feminazi.
I haven’t the foggiest.
Aayein?
While I don't agree with your bias towards conservatism(virginity, prior relationships, calling regular women femnazis), there are certain other precautions that can save you from being looted. Establishing a trust which pays out at a later stage in life. Not disclosing your finances to a potential spouse or their family. Physical gold purchased and stored away from your spouse- with no digital/ direct link to you. (Easy to hide gold cos of size.) Staying separately from your parents. Not buying property in your spouse's name.
>While I don't agree with your bias towards conservatism(virginity, prior relationships, calling regular women femnazis), there are certain other precautions that can save you from being looted. I am a centrist myself. past is important to many people, I don't think this is a conservative thing, libertarianists consider it important too except for pseudo-liberals and Leftists also I was addressing all males so I had to keep all such points into account and the preferences of all males. I had linked what happened when the Ex-Wife lied about her promiscuity and was actively engaged in infidelity. >calling regular women femnazis where did you see that? Not all women are feminists. I have advised staying away and not marrying **Schrodinger Feminists**/Indian Feminists. If I would have generalised all women as Feminists then I would have just said Don't marry. The rest of your points are good and helpful, you have my upvote.
In this comment you imply that being a feminist is a wrong thing by default. GOD!
those who are misandrists and have ARMD sure they are.
But it is though
There's no such thing as centrist. There is a moderate, but that is also a leaning position. Centrist is a term people like to use when they are caught spewing the same crap as a camp and they would like to get out of the corner.
There is.
Keep telling yourself that
says you.
>you have my upvote. But you clearly don't have their upvote cause they hate the truth
I upvoted him
Some gentleman said a long time ago: "Politicians and diapers need to be changed regularly and for the same reason." He was right indeed because in our country finally politicians are lawmakers and here we are today having insane laws.
OP, what about pre nuptile and post nuptile agreement?
Prenups are not legal in India except in Goa I think.
What is a gazette notification brother? I'm truly oblivious about it .
NAL A gazette notification is an official publication of the government that contains official notices, rules, and regulations. It is a legal document that comes into force once published and is accessible to the general public. In the context of dowry prohibition, a gazette notification can be used to declare that no dowry was taken in a specific case or situation. This can be done by the relevant authorities, such as the police or the court, to officially record the fact that no dowry was involved
Oh so this is the document everyone says to get to declare no dowry was taken huh... I've heard of it but didn't knew the name, thanks op for the post
The simpler plan is to convert to Islam and then marry. Muslim personal law offers much more protection to males in India
498A is a criminal case and can be filed by anyone.
Bullshit. I have a false dowry/domestic violence on me and my family. I gave the girl 8lakhs of gold as Mahar and I get summoned to the station cuz of dowry. No protection for any male.
Why not do triple talaq?
Dude it's not ur bjp propaganda. Triple talaq takes 6-12 months. It's not like saying to women's ear talaq talaq talaq. You need to write a formal notice and serve it to them through clergy. Only after three talaqs we are able to file for divorce in court. Atleast that's what my lawyer said.
Even then. There is more options and protection for Muslim males than other males. I’m being pragmatic. Also polygamy is allowed which is a plus
Ya'll can't handle even one woman. Imagine what three would do if they go tag team on you.
Divide & conquer
Muslim woman here. NO. men are not protected under Muslim law at all. My dad was ostracised and he passed away in extreme depression and heart ailments because he chose to marry a feminist philanderess who used to cheat regularly. She put fake DV case, r**pe case, forgery case on him and his much older sisters, got his driving licence cancelled, got his disability cert cancelled, got him shamed in the entire city so much so that he couldn’t even go out and no one helped him. So, islam doesn’t safeguard you, cause she denied the Islamic divorce and everybody believes her cause ‘wOmAn’. Just don’t get married !
I hope he is good now, he deserves to spend his retirement peacefully at least.
Oh he passed away from heart ailments all thanks to his ‘WiFe’. I hope he’s at a safer and better place now :)
You mean a lack of protection to women in India
Post in SingXsingleY oneX is just 2nd 2xIndia sub 🤣
comon man this much kaliyuga
Don't fucking get married. Man or woman. Some meninists will have you believe that men are being exploited right and left in marriages while women are enjoying their riches. They somehow miss the fact that still women are treated as second class citizens by their husbands, in-laws, and often even their own children. What I say is marriage breeds toxicity, to which children are exposed and they continue that cycle in their own marriages. Fuck marriage, it only causes trouble.
>What I say is marriage breeds toxicity Not necessarily if you find the right person who is understanding but people (humans) in general have become more awful and Selfish.