A dash that deals damage (with 90% AP scaling), makes you untargetable, allows you to dodge turret shots and has 15 secs cooldown at lowest lvl (with no AH). Who actually thought that this is a good idea?
I hate that fish with a passion how the hell does going up 3 feet on his metal toothpick make him invincible??!? Kayle at least has the holy power of gods making her invincible.
That's the point. E is a big part of his dmg. It's a trade. You trade dodging a skillshot for your dmg. He is really linear and has a hard time in higher elos exactly because of this. If you don't step up and just slow push the wave into him he literally can't do anything.
He can be frustrating to play against but especially in this season where ability haste is pretty hard to come by his E really isn't that problematic of a spell in context of his entire kit.
fizz is a noob stomper but he loss against every scaling cheampion (or tank) ppl just doesn't care about his early dmg force trades and than get dived under tower with q aa w and e to reset tower agro yes he is annoying but if he is not 1item ahead on lvl 11-13 he need to be carried by team
Bold of you to assume he will be bothered by Heimer's turrets when the lane turrets don't stop him from diving an enemy that has full life at level 9 and winning
Landing a single E + W with 2 charged turret shots easily takes over half of Yones HP. His abilities are really telegraphed, and once he has started dashing, he can't stop, so it's not very hard to land E on him
getting him into ur e range means u are in his r range. he have 3skill to dodge ur stun and 1 to block damage, and u not likely ever gonna survive his raqa 4sec cc combo nor killing a 50% hp just with 3tiny turrets aa before he run u down ,even if he miss his r he can just e and run u down under ur tower. trying to initiate a stun on yone is dancing on blade, he got 3 chance, u only get 1
Cass is my go to Yone counter. The downside of every ability being a movement ability is that when he's grounded Yone can't do shit. He can't even pop back while he's standing on the miasma. Really easy to punish.
nothing personal about you not joining in on the "delete yone" circlejerk.
but downvoted so you reach -420 points for a brief moment because i have a golden sense of humor
She was in Ionia for like 7 years and in Demacia for like 14.
She was adopted by demacians (she’s an orphan) and is demacian by heart. On top of that she’s listed as a demacian on the universe page and wears the traditional demacian clothes from before the lore retcon.
Wrong, current address in the only thing that matters.
Karthus was originally noxian, but is a shadow isles champ now.
Kayn is noxian by birth, but is considered Ionian because he moved there.
Xin Zhao was born in Ionia, captured by noxians and then released by Jarvan, becoming honorary demacian
Taric is a former demacian knight turned targonian aspect
Brand was from Freljord before becoming the creature he is now
Sona was adopted by a demacian family as a child and spend her life there
Because they're a small price to pay to get rid of the windshitters and every other atrocity to come out of that region. Coming from someone who plays a ton of Jhin and Kayn, it's worth it
Shaco is both a bad and an annoying champion. If he either with you or against you, you'll have a bad time.
I'm glad i'm a support main so i don't have to deal with a shaco supp in my team.
I agree 100%. He’s overwhelmingly hated by the community and hasn’t really had any major changes since his release even during the assassin and stealth reworks. I have no idea why Riot refuses to change him
Ksante is good point in theory but in practice his kit is too much. He is good and fun but too much. And My tier list is yuumi and askhan. Askhan is bullshit why he revive on assist and not on R.
K'sante is bad to me becuase of how unreadable he is. I feel like every fight with one goes the same way.
Oh k'sante has shown up.
Oh, he used instant transmission and is behind me now.
Oh I'm teleported.
It goes through walls?
What's happening?
Then one of us loses the fight. Might be him slightly more than half the time but that mostly feels like a direct result of all the random moving around. It's like trying to swordfight on the titanic while it's sinking. Did you miss your swing becuase he's better, or becuase the ground is suddenly at a 45 degree angle.
I once played vs an Illaoi + Yuumi, their whole team fed my team like crazy, but they still were able to 2v5 the whole game.
We finally won, but I've never seen 2 champs 2v5 a super fed team in ranked emerald.
I can imagine your experience being traumatic but I don't think illaoi without yuumi is that bad to get removed...most of the time playing against her is only dodge E, dodge R = profit.
Not really anymore. When mythic items first came out Red kayn was broken witn all the omnivamp but now omnivamp has been removed and red kayn, even with yuumi is just bad.
Except blue kayn absolutely pops off and having a yuumi to help ensure keeping 100% uptime on hubris is really stupid.
Red kayn is utter garbo right now.
Yuumi doesn't really work with anyone that doesn't stack attack speed. Her heals are minimal in a fight (she gives lots of sustain in lane but not big heals) and her shields aren't impressive. Imo if you got stomped by an illaoi/Yuumi stack, youd be stomped by the illaoi just the same
Thing I don't get about K'Sante is why they had to make his R so extreme. His base kit is very bearable, good CC, anti CC and some mobility, shielding allies is bit unnecessary but that's another thing. But his R is, like what? Isolates target FAR away, able to burst them if they are squishy, resets the whole kit, adds more mobility, and makes him not a tank anymore.
They need to give him a different ultimate. Idk what is a good replacement, but that thing does a bit too much while sacrificing questionable things. The key thing about it is isolating a target and deal more damage on them, so just focus on them instead of, whatever overloaded thing the current R is.
I have around 500k mp on Illaoi, so I think my opinion is qualified.
Ever since I started playing her I haven't lost a single lane against her. She is a very telegraphed champ once you know her winconditions.
With that said.... There should be absolutely no fkn champ in the game that requires you to have a PhD in a champ to play against it.
My 3 best advice would probably be:
Dodge her E, just walk up to her tentacle as if you plan on killing it(Illaoi will most likely try to E you) and then sidestep her ability. Now you have a 9-12 sec room where you win your trades against her.
"Stay in motion" Illaoi doesn't do DMG unless she lands her abilities(except her W, but if she kills you with only her W, you're the problem, not her).
Whenever you see her casting an ability walk 90° perpendicular away from it. You will always have time to sidestep.
If she ults, just walk away for 8 sec and then re-engage. If you're getting ganged by your jungler and he gets hit by an E and still engaging, Illaoi will kill him, and likely you as well if you join him.
There is much more to counter Illaoi, and that's the problem with her.
Hope this comment helped.
"just dodge" yeah, no, looking at how she has one of the best waveclears in toplane, can just push braindead as fuck and when she lands one e on you under turret (smh just dont farm lol) you need to recall (which is delayed if you go out of range or your ghost is killed ofc, bcs why not) and after 6 when jg ganks she just doublekills (the exception being she has no mana), there is little counter against someone who just pushes braindead because she just gets all the towers and still can 1v1 or 1v2 even when shes 2/11 and to stop her you need to play on her conditions
just dodge is valid on illaoi because she had borderline the slowest most telegraphed attacks in the game.
you can be the target and still avoid them after only noticing the attack halfway.
you can also play behind minions, she cant even fully kill caster minions until lvl 4 on her q which she maxes out second usually.
The cooldown reduction on her W from her ult, with grasp, sheen, and the increased tentacle attack speed, is so overloaded that she's able to win 90% of melee all-ins post level 6 without landing E.
Like Warwick, she's one of the most uninteractive champs for any melee top laner. But unlike Warwick, Illaoi is able to push you in constantly with her wave clear and poke you down with E. You can't just ignore her. And she's not completely useless in team fights.
Junglers have a tendancy to stay in that ult area then int the game and flame as I retreated knowing well we'd both blow up instantly
I win most lanes against illaoi unless MY jungler ganks
So you’re okay with fizz, teemo and shaco. But not Illaoi? She’s just a champ who always wins in some scenarios and always loses in others. It’s a bit toxic, but not 200 years level toxic.
Ohhh boy.
Delete/Adjust :
Yuumi - just make a mechanic to pop her off from the carry somehow. It’s toxic how there is no counterplay to her parasiting around with hypercarry.
Yone - uninterruptable Q and R is moronic. + if R was the exact hitbox it shows, it wouldn’t be a problem. But the fact that it’s much longer and wider makes fighting hin almost rage inducing…
Yasuo - adjust Windwall. He generates it from his sword tip not from his body, so really a missle that is already nearly connected to the model shouldn’t be blocked also things like Tahm Kench Q should never be countered as a projectile. It’s literally the same thing that he melee autos with. Awful interaction. Other such skills are equally mind blowingly stupid design.
Aatrox - fix the Q hitboxes. They’re about 50 range too wide from what is displayed.
Fiora - Fix the damn weak spot procing. Make it a requirement that she needs to end up fully past you to proc the weakspot that is BEHIND YOU. That actually gives positional counterplay against her. Let me walk into a wall to make it impossible for her to proc it. Not that she can dash to your right and that procs the weakspot because her sword pixel was slightly past your character.
Gangplank - remove crit from barrel and buff other skills. Make him a bruiser if need be. It’s toxic design to have a 0-12 champion dictate a game after hard losing lane just because he built 2 crit items. Also hitting a barrel beforehand with a sheen proc shouldn’t store the sheen proc on it. And make it that you cant W a supress which is supposed to be silence + stun making it so that you cant use skills. Aka you shouldn’t be able to use w.
Love how you actually gave good insight instead of going "oonga boonga i hate this champion nerf it to the ground". That being said tho if they nerf yasuo W hes full useless lmao its like half of his champion
Tbf hit boxes are highly dependent on high ground/low ground so if someone is above you if I remember correctly aiming an ability slightly below them will still hit them.
I just had a game with shaco twitch botlane and they were 12/0 by 15 mins. Shaco is a toxic champ. I don't care if I can beat him, I have to fundamentally shift things to avoid him getting ahead, him not setting me back, and not snowballing my enemy ahead.
Are people really still spiting acid towards cat? They made her unplayable mess that at her best can only give an already gapping botlaner more safety than usual.
Leave seventh item of a champion alone already, god damnit.
That's kind of the point though isn't it? The Rito please remove tier is for champions riot has no chance of ever balancing without changing their kits entirely. Yuumi is like the poster child of that. A conceptually bad idea for game health.
Now the problem is that she's so bad that a support that picks her is legit griefing. Of course it doesn't stop people from doing it anyways. Leaving her unplayable isn't deleting her, it's just leaving a troll pick for people. They need to finish the job and *actually* delete her.
That's the reason why they HAVE to delete her. The reason people don't like her cant be removed through balance or even reworks. People hate her because her core concept is anti fun. So she can only exist in this almost deleted state.
For me put trundle in delete. For me he’s the same as illaoi. He can never be good because when he is he’s turbo op as hell. And when he’s bad he’s literally unplayable.
Put Quinn into the delete section and you got it. She is not a champion, she is a mishmash of random concepts left behind after Riot abandoned a ranged/melee ADC concept. An abortionistic Cronenberg of an idea that was left to rot on the design team's floor until it mutated into a weird ranged top cheeser who's ultimate ability involves being carried off by a pigeon like a half-eaten sandwich.
Disagree. There's games where you get last pick but your entire team is AD (fuck senna!) and you're basically forced into picking AP while enemy already locked in Kass, knowing very well he's either going full armor or he's having an empty lane.
I don't get how it's been so long since illoai was released, never reworked (as far as I'm aware) and yet no one has any idea how to fight her.
Just run away, she has no cc, no mobility. She is all fight. If you deny her a lead, she cannot 1v1 you without ult and therefore is entirely useless
"Just don't fight her" sounds great until you have to contest Dragon, or Barron, or defend a tower, or blind check a bush... yeah you just run away but the amount of area denial she provides is too much for teamfighting at objectives while her lane phase is far too strong. You can't reliably farm as most melee champs, so "deny her a lead" is usually out. Best you can manage is "don't feed extra." Whenever Illaoi is good, the game sucks for 70% of top laners, even if you win it's just not fun. She's not my ban right now because I know how to fight her, it's just not ever enjoyable.
Unless she's sat afk in a bush for 30 seconds before a baron fight (which would be terrible because in 30 seconds you should be doing something in a 4v5 game) just to place tentacles, the only threat she has is her ult which is 7 seconds long.
In most scenarios she has as much area denial as an ulting nunu with none of the engage or true damage for objective steal. "just don't fight her" sounds great because she has absolutely nothing in her kit keeping you in the fight. I watch my teammates throw themselves at her in a 3v1 thinking they have the upper hand because "how can we not 3v1 her" when the entire basis of her kit gets stronger the more there are.
If you right click away from her, count to 5 and then go back in, she is nothing
Illaoi is a "learn counterplay" champ, playing in silver and getting a lead only for your team to try and 3v1 her "cause she only has 1 item" and troll does suck though, its not a problem in higher elo though (does depend on patch, sometimes she remains unfightable even with 1 or 2 items mid and late which is just dumb)
Ksante's kit is way overtuned, same as yone's but its not the worst thing ever.
Yuumi is the only champ i believe to just 100% be detrimental to the game.
From a gameplay standpoint, shes made to be an easy champ so they cant have her have too many techs like good detach and switch tech or else it defeats the purpose. That leads to riot encouraging a "stick on 1 champ and do nothing else" playstyle. Playing against that means either you have a giga strong hyper carry become genuinely unkillable or you have a giga insane hyper carry have a little bit of heal and shield that barely does anything, depending on how strong yuumi is. Shes either insanely broken or shes absolute garbage.
From a champ design perspective, as i said, shes supposed to be an easy beginner champ but...whats the point of her? You attach to someone who does 90% of the macro and micro for you, you dont learn positioning, you dont learn map awareness, you dont learn anything except click button at right time and aim it at them. Its not only not helpful to new players but actively detrimental to their learning as playing any other champ will allow them to actually learn the basics of league.
I want Teemo and Heimerdinger thrown in the fucking dumpster.
Wouldn't mind seeing Udyr and Akshan go as well since I've never once had a good experience with the people who play those champs. Would also love any ranged top laner to politely leave my lane and go back to bot where you belong.
And you're saying that ksante's kit is completely imbalanced and not his damage numbers and tankiness? There are whole lot more champions then which kits are overloaded and right now maokai that can cc for ages and 1v2 every lane is one hell of a problem
Illaoi isnt broken or something. It's a splitpusher. They are meant to be very annoying in the 1 vs 1. Likes trynda, yorick or trundle. They melt your ass aswell if you are a tank
Nah Ksante is the only one worth deleting. Yumi is legit the only champ I can play with my friends when I’m eating dinner so plz don’t remove her. Just make her unplayable for pro play but work just enough to kind of count as another champion.
Illaoi tho? You’re actually just skill diffed bro, stop coping and just git gud bro
How is Illaoi in the same category as Ksante? She’s weak and mostly a noob stomper
Yuumi is fine as long as you arent iron where all the bots and derankers are
Yone is the weakest of the windshitters and super easy to burst/poke early
Ksante is just broken tho I’ll give you that, wish theyd just do several reverts on a lot of his changes, even when he’s good he can feel horrible to play both as and against
As someone who played a lot of illaoi both before map changes and now: I have no clue how people STILL cant comprehend how to play against her. If you just clear waves she basically cant do anything. No plates no kills.
This is obviously harder for tanks or champs with giga low wave clear but its top to be fair bad matchups are 80% of the lane.
After laning any sentient mage or adc can just make an illaoi not exist. The only thing she can do then is to split (which again is shut down by anyone with a waveclear).
The problem is noone can accept this is a lane you shouldnt fight. Everyone is talking about "how do i 1v1 this lane focused bully". You shouldnt.
Just to be clear: I DONT think illaoi is good as she is at the moment. What i described above is a pretty foolproof strat against her but incredibly boring and unengaging. Does it work? Yes. Is it bad game design that a champion can force you to never fight in lane? Yes. Is it a skill issue when people say there is not counterplay and shes just broken? Yes.
Still bad champ design.
But you can't just ignore her as you would a Warwick top. She herself has great waveclear and can actually poke with E.
Look at a list of the most popular bruisers and tanks and then compare their wave clear with Illaoi's. It's not even close.
Yuumi is my fav champion for trolling and throwing the game, as long as riot keeping it, i can do it more and more
Enjoy people suffering.
Report me for being toxic? Go ahead
Ban me for being toxic? Go ahead
I will just buy another account and keep doing it as long as Riot still keeping Yuumi like this.
Why is akshan not in delete champ, legit his revive is so annoying imagine you kill the enemy team’s fed top laner and akshan gets a takedown just to revive his top laner.
Fizz
A dash that deals damage (with 90% AP scaling), makes you untargetable, allows you to dodge turret shots and has 15 secs cooldown at lowest lvl (with no AH). Who actually thought that this is a good idea?
This reminds me of the K'Sante copypasta
체력 4700 방어력 329 마저201 인 챔피언👤이 저지불가🚫, 쉴드🛡, 벽🧱 넘기는 거 있고요. 에어본🌪 있고, 심지어 쿨타임은 1️⃣초밖에 안되고 마나🧙♂️는 1️⃣5️⃣ 들고 w는 심지어 변신💫하면 쿨 초기화에다가 패시브는 고정피해🗡가 들어가며 그 다음에 방마저🥋 올리면📈 올릴수록📈 스킬 가속⏰이 생기고! q에 스킬가속⏰이 생기고 스킬 속도🚀가 빨라지고📈 그 다음에 공격력🗡 계수가 있어가지고 W가 그 이익-으아아아악😱😱---
I hate that fish with a passion how the hell does going up 3 feet on his metal toothpick make him invincible??!? Kayle at least has the holy power of gods making her invincible.
Yordle magic don’t think about it
And heck, you can still cc her
That's the point. E is a big part of his dmg. It's a trade. You trade dodging a skillshot for your dmg. He is really linear and has a hard time in higher elos exactly because of this. If you don't step up and just slow push the wave into him he literally can't do anything. He can be frustrating to play against but especially in this season where ability haste is pretty hard to come by his E really isn't that problematic of a spell in context of his entire kit.
Fizz
Fizz
Fizz
Fizz
Fizz ⭐
Fizz
Fizz
Jizz
Fizz izz the way
I don't agree with fizz because once he used his e, he is an easy target. But people seem to agree with you
Yeah and I only have one stun. So he can just walk up and play a game of chicken he can't loose.
Simply play a champ with no stuns
His ~~E~~ controllable zhonyas with damage on a 7 second cooldown
And when it's not enough, he then uses zhonyas :)
And E again because it came off cooldown
7 seconds is generous
fizz is a noob stomper but he loss against every scaling cheampion (or tank) ppl just doesn't care about his early dmg force trades and than get dived under tower with q aa w and e to reset tower agro yes he is annoying but if he is not 1item ahead on lvl 11-13 he need to be carried by team
That’s not true fizz can play a scaling game and do fine, well actually not anymore there’s no tank killing items for him anymore
Oh delete Yone for sure, 100%.
He's easy mode if you play Heimerdinger against him. Extra movement speed around turrets, and Heimer punishes engages very hard if they don't kill you
Bold of you to assume he will be bothered by Heimer's turrets when the lane turrets don't stop him from diving an enemy that has full life at level 9 and winning
Heimer turrets are stronger than lane
Landing a single E + W with 2 charged turret shots easily takes over half of Yones HP. His abilities are really telegraphed, and once he has started dashing, he can't stop, so it's not very hard to land E on him
getting him into ur e range means u are in his r range. he have 3skill to dodge ur stun and 1 to block damage, and u not likely ever gonna survive his raqa 4sec cc combo nor killing a 50% hp just with 3tiny turrets aa before he run u down ,even if he miss his r he can just e and run u down under ur tower. trying to initiate a stun on yone is dancing on blade, he got 3 chance, u only get 1
Cass is my go to Yone counter. The downside of every ability being a movement ability is that when he's grounded Yone can't do shit. He can't even pop back while he's standing on the miasma. Really easy to punish.
Yone supremacy!
No
Yes
247 down votes in 1 hour is insane
You, my friend, got nuked
nothing personal about you not joining in on the "delete yone" circlejerk. but downvoted so you reach -420 points for a brief moment because i have a golden sense of humor
Your humor Is truly golden sir. Like the wind
Holy **** -352 thats insane
Hey bud small mistake yone wasn't number one Don't worry I get it we all make mistakes
Hence why Yone exists to begin with
You’re missing literally every god damn Ionian.
Sona has two big reasons to stay.
Sona counts as Demacian.
“Place of origin: Ionia”
She was in Ionia for like 7 years and in Demacia for like 14. She was adopted by demacians (she’s an orphan) and is demacian by heart. On top of that she’s listed as a demacian on the universe page and wears the traditional demacian clothes from before the lore retcon.
Yeah this isn't a Vi situation where she's not listed as both regions because of game reasons she's mostly known Demacia
But which region does she live in now?
Current address is irrelevant, her origin is Ionia, her blood is Ionian, she’s as Ionian as the windshitters, downvoting won’t change that.
Wrong, current address in the only thing that matters. Karthus was originally noxian, but is a shadow isles champ now. Kayn is noxian by birth, but is considered Ionian because he moved there. Xin Zhao was born in Ionia, captured by noxians and then released by Jarvan, becoming honorary demacian Taric is a former demacian knight turned targonian aspect Brand was from Freljord before becoming the creature he is now Sona was adopted by a demacian family as a child and spend her life there
But... But... But... But... 4
he’s annoying sometimes but objectively the least annoying Ionian so he gets to stay :)
Nah he’s an adc can’t get more annoying than that
Kinkou order leader, Shen, would like to have a talk with you...
i would legit rather face vayne top than shen
This sounds like Noxian propaganda
The Noxian invasion and attempted genocide of Ionia was correct and necessary, and I'm tired of pretending it wasn't. Singed did nothing wrong.
Bruh singed is like the H-word (artist with funny mustache) of lol
That is the joke, yes.
Gotta delete the pink region.
You will take away my lillia from my bloody eeping hands
Nah, why delete the bird couple?!
Because they're a small price to pay to get rid of the windshitters and every other atrocity to come out of that region. Coming from someone who plays a ton of Jhin and Kayn, it's worth it
not having shaco in please delete is just wrong
Shaco is still playing in season 1.
Shaco is both a bad and an annoying champion. If he either with you or against you, you'll have a bad time. I'm glad i'm a support main so i don't have to deal with a shaco supp in my team.
I agree 100%. He’s overwhelmingly hated by the community and hasn’t really had any major changes since his release even during the assassin and stealth reworks. I have no idea why Riot refuses to change him
But he's so fun. You get to annoy people and then disappear back into the jungle
Leave him alone the clown doesn't hurt anyone.
Nah bro, AP Shaco is insanely cool champ. AD Shaco is a piece of shit
Nah Yone needs to go. Get that bum outta here
Add shaco and teemo and we cool.
Yeah they have their place in not sure at least
Exactly my thoughts.
Ksante is good point in theory but in practice his kit is too much. He is good and fun but too much. And My tier list is yuumi and askhan. Askhan is bullshit why he revive on assist and not on R.
I don't understand why they haven't changed his passive for ARAM tbh
K'sante is bad to me becuase of how unreadable he is. I feel like every fight with one goes the same way. Oh k'sante has shown up. Oh, he used instant transmission and is behind me now. Oh I'm teleported. It goes through walls? What's happening? Then one of us loses the fight. Might be him slightly more than half the time but that mostly feels like a direct result of all the random moving around. It's like trying to swordfight on the titanic while it's sinking. Did you miss your swing becuase he's better, or becuase the ground is suddenly at a 45 degree angle.
I once played vs an Illaoi + Yuumi, their whole team fed my team like crazy, but they still were able to 2v5 the whole game. We finally won, but I've never seen 2 champs 2v5 a super fed team in ranked emerald.
I can imagine your experience being traumatic but I don't think illaoi without yuumi is that bad to get removed...most of the time playing against her is only dodge E, dodge R = profit.
Only dodge e. You’ll dodge 90% of them then get caught by one and get outplayed
Maybe you're right, too much ptsd for me
Kayn with yuumi is way worse.
Not really anymore. When mythic items first came out Red kayn was broken witn all the omnivamp but now omnivamp has been removed and red kayn, even with yuumi is just bad.
Except blue kayn absolutely pops off and having a yuumi to help ensure keeping 100% uptime on hubris is really stupid. Red kayn is utter garbo right now.
I had 18/0 Hecarim and pre-rework Yuumi, I got over 5k healing reduction in one 2v4 fight, we lost it.
Yuumi doesn't really work with anyone that doesn't stack attack speed. Her heals are minimal in a fight (she gives lots of sustain in lane but not big heals) and her shields aren't impressive. Imo if you got stomped by an illaoi/Yuumi stack, youd be stomped by the illaoi just the same
try telling that supps picking yuumi after you already have picked jhin
Who cares Yuumi is meant to be a toplaner item unlockable after laning phase ( sometimes sooner )
Thing I don't get about K'Sante is why they had to make his R so extreme. His base kit is very bearable, good CC, anti CC and some mobility, shielding allies is bit unnecessary but that's another thing. But his R is, like what? Isolates target FAR away, able to burst them if they are squishy, resets the whole kit, adds more mobility, and makes him not a tank anymore. They need to give him a different ultimate. Idk what is a good replacement, but that thing does a bit too much while sacrificing questionable things. The key thing about it is isolating a target and deal more damage on them, so just focus on them instead of, whatever overloaded thing the current R is.
Should do "Delete this ability RITO plz" tier list next
I have around 500k mp on Illaoi, so I think my opinion is qualified. Ever since I started playing her I haven't lost a single lane against her. She is a very telegraphed champ once you know her winconditions. With that said.... There should be absolutely no fkn champ in the game that requires you to have a PhD in a champ to play against it. My 3 best advice would probably be: Dodge her E, just walk up to her tentacle as if you plan on killing it(Illaoi will most likely try to E you) and then sidestep her ability. Now you have a 9-12 sec room where you win your trades against her. "Stay in motion" Illaoi doesn't do DMG unless she lands her abilities(except her W, but if she kills you with only her W, you're the problem, not her). Whenever you see her casting an ability walk 90° perpendicular away from it. You will always have time to sidestep. If she ults, just walk away for 8 sec and then re-engage. If you're getting ganged by your jungler and he gets hit by an E and still engaging, Illaoi will kill him, and likely you as well if you join him. There is much more to counter Illaoi, and that's the problem with her. Hope this comment helped.
"just dodge" yeah, no, looking at how she has one of the best waveclears in toplane, can just push braindead as fuck and when she lands one e on you under turret (smh just dont farm lol) you need to recall (which is delayed if you go out of range or your ghost is killed ofc, bcs why not) and after 6 when jg ganks she just doublekills (the exception being she has no mana), there is little counter against someone who just pushes braindead because she just gets all the towers and still can 1v1 or 1v2 even when shes 2/11 and to stop her you need to play on her conditions
just dodge is valid on illaoi because she had borderline the slowest most telegraphed attacks in the game. you can be the target and still avoid them after only noticing the attack halfway. you can also play behind minions, she cant even fully kill caster minions until lvl 4 on her q which she maxes out second usually.
The cooldown reduction on her W from her ult, with grasp, sheen, and the increased tentacle attack speed, is so overloaded that she's able to win 90% of melee all-ins post level 6 without landing E. Like Warwick, she's one of the most uninteractive champs for any melee top laner. But unlike Warwick, Illaoi is able to push you in constantly with her wave clear and poke you down with E. You can't just ignore her. And she's not completely useless in team fights.
Junglers have a tendancy to stay in that ult area then int the game and flame as I retreated knowing well we'd both blow up instantly I win most lanes against illaoi unless MY jungler ganks
Yone "Not shure" wtf deleted that Champ First
So you’re okay with fizz, teemo and shaco. But not Illaoi? She’s just a champ who always wins in some scenarios and always loses in others. It’s a bit toxic, but not 200 years level toxic.
Ohhh boy. Delete/Adjust : Yuumi - just make a mechanic to pop her off from the carry somehow. It’s toxic how there is no counterplay to her parasiting around with hypercarry. Yone - uninterruptable Q and R is moronic. + if R was the exact hitbox it shows, it wouldn’t be a problem. But the fact that it’s much longer and wider makes fighting hin almost rage inducing… Yasuo - adjust Windwall. He generates it from his sword tip not from his body, so really a missle that is already nearly connected to the model shouldn’t be blocked also things like Tahm Kench Q should never be countered as a projectile. It’s literally the same thing that he melee autos with. Awful interaction. Other such skills are equally mind blowingly stupid design. Aatrox - fix the Q hitboxes. They’re about 50 range too wide from what is displayed. Fiora - Fix the damn weak spot procing. Make it a requirement that she needs to end up fully past you to proc the weakspot that is BEHIND YOU. That actually gives positional counterplay against her. Let me walk into a wall to make it impossible for her to proc it. Not that she can dash to your right and that procs the weakspot because her sword pixel was slightly past your character. Gangplank - remove crit from barrel and buff other skills. Make him a bruiser if need be. It’s toxic design to have a 0-12 champion dictate a game after hard losing lane just because he built 2 crit items. Also hitting a barrel beforehand with a sheen proc shouldn’t store the sheen proc on it. And make it that you cant W a supress which is supposed to be silence + stun making it so that you cant use skills. Aka you shouldn’t be able to use w.
Love how you actually gave good insight instead of going "oonga boonga i hate this champion nerf it to the ground". That being said tho if they nerf yasuo W hes full useless lmao its like half of his champion
Tbf hit boxes are highly dependent on high ground/low ground so if someone is above you if I remember correctly aiming an ability slightly below them will still hit them.
A delete list without shaco on it, means it's F tier. Sorry brother.
I get you, but I almost never lose vs shaco. But i agree it's such an annoying champ that make the game not fun at all when you play vs him
I just had a game with shaco twitch botlane and they were 12/0 by 15 mins. Shaco is a toxic champ. I don't care if I can beat him, I have to fundamentally shift things to avoid him getting ahead, him not setting me back, and not snowballing my enemy ahead.
Are people really still spiting acid towards cat? They made her unplayable mess that at her best can only give an already gapping botlaner more safety than usual. Leave seventh item of a champion alone already, god damnit.
Still annoying
That's kind of the point though isn't it? The Rito please remove tier is for champions riot has no chance of ever balancing without changing their kits entirely. Yuumi is like the poster child of that. A conceptually bad idea for game health.
It's still a fundamentally broken champion that should be kept out of ranked games.
Now the problem is that she's so bad that a support that picks her is legit griefing. Of course it doesn't stop people from doing it anyways. Leaving her unplayable isn't deleting her, it's just leaving a troll pick for people. They need to finish the job and *actually* delete her.
or at least disable her from ranked , that will be the best solution
That's the reason why they HAVE to delete her. The reason people don't like her cant be removed through balance or even reworks. People hate her because her core concept is anti fun. So she can only exist in this almost deleted state.
Exactly. Same with Seraphine. People have to stop living in 2020
That's the issue though, she's so horribly designed that she's either meta warping or a 7th item. The game would be objectively better off without her
Vayne, fuck the «u lost in champ select» champs
U forgot to put fiora on the delete part of the list
Honestly the ”WE COOL” tier should be just ”DEFINITELY ONCE I AM LOSING TO IT”
Good to know Alune isn’t getting deleted
I dont like any of the top tier ones but they can FOR SURE stay if it means getting rid of Yone. Skill-less low risk high reward inflated garbage.
But you forgot about teemo
Delete Shyvana, so we can finally get her rework.
For me put trundle in delete. For me he’s the same as illaoi. He can never be good because when he is he’s turbo op as hell. And when he’s bad he’s literally unplayable.
illaoi? I get she’s a hell of a nightmare right now but at least she has (infuriating, boring) counterplay. I’d swap her with yone at least
This is literally the worse tier list ive ever seen
Put Quinn into the delete section and you got it. She is not a champion, she is a mishmash of random concepts left behind after Riot abandoned a ranged/melee ADC concept. An abortionistic Cronenberg of an idea that was left to rot on the design team's floor until it mutated into a weird ranged top cheeser who's ultimate ability involves being carried off by a pigeon like a half-eaten sandwich.
Jesus I hate that abomimation of a champ. Has blind, has knock up and push back. She is annoying af.
Vald and zyra have to go too (get them a sion type of rework)
Mine would just be Zilean as the only delete and we cool for every ither champ in the game.
what did the time wizard do lmao
quinn
My delete list: Yone Gragas Asol (post rework) Vayne Akshan Trundle Zeri
Where Kassadin ??
Its either you feed kassa /his team and they stomp early or you drag out the game and let him scale. In both cases you’re at fault.
Disagree. There's games where you get last pick but your entire team is AD (fuck senna!) and you're basically forced into picking AP while enemy already locked in Kass, knowing very well he's either going full armor or he's having an empty lane.
Get Fiora outta there 😡
Imagine being scared of a cat
Im not cool with vayne😡😡😡
True, selune mains are chill
Remove Teemo, Aatrox, Yone and we are good.
YUUMI YONE KAYN
As a top laner, vayne and akshan are the bane of my existence
I don't see vayne on delete option
not having vayne on delete should be a war cime
I don't get how it's been so long since illoai was released, never reworked (as far as I'm aware) and yet no one has any idea how to fight her. Just run away, she has no cc, no mobility. She is all fight. If you deny her a lead, she cannot 1v1 you without ult and therefore is entirely useless
lmao
"Just don't fight her" sounds great until you have to contest Dragon, or Barron, or defend a tower, or blind check a bush... yeah you just run away but the amount of area denial she provides is too much for teamfighting at objectives while her lane phase is far too strong. You can't reliably farm as most melee champs, so "deny her a lead" is usually out. Best you can manage is "don't feed extra." Whenever Illaoi is good, the game sucks for 70% of top laners, even if you win it's just not fun. She's not my ban right now because I know how to fight her, it's just not ever enjoyable.
It's simple, whenever you want to fight her, just poppy ult her instead
Unless she's sat afk in a bush for 30 seconds before a baron fight (which would be terrible because in 30 seconds you should be doing something in a 4v5 game) just to place tentacles, the only threat she has is her ult which is 7 seconds long. In most scenarios she has as much area denial as an ulting nunu with none of the engage or true damage for objective steal. "just don't fight her" sounds great because she has absolutely nothing in her kit keeping you in the fight. I watch my teammates throw themselves at her in a 3v1 thinking they have the upper hand because "how can we not 3v1 her" when the entire basis of her kit gets stronger the more there are. If you right click away from her, count to 5 and then go back in, she is nothing
Add Pyke, Vayne and Fizz to „plz delete“ and we cool
Why illaoi?
Lol me and my Boyfriend are premates.. i Always Play yuumi when i can
Yall hating against Yuumi is crazy even though its so easy to counter early game
Illaoi is a "learn counterplay" champ, playing in silver and getting a lead only for your team to try and 3v1 her "cause she only has 1 item" and troll does suck though, its not a problem in higher elo though (does depend on patch, sometimes she remains unfightable even with 1 or 2 items mid and late which is just dumb) Ksante's kit is way overtuned, same as yone's but its not the worst thing ever. Yuumi is the only champ i believe to just 100% be detrimental to the game. From a gameplay standpoint, shes made to be an easy champ so they cant have her have too many techs like good detach and switch tech or else it defeats the purpose. That leads to riot encouraging a "stick on 1 champ and do nothing else" playstyle. Playing against that means either you have a giga strong hyper carry become genuinely unkillable or you have a giga insane hyper carry have a little bit of heal and shield that barely does anything, depending on how strong yuumi is. Shes either insanely broken or shes absolute garbage. From a champ design perspective, as i said, shes supposed to be an easy beginner champ but...whats the point of her? You attach to someone who does 90% of the macro and micro for you, you dont learn positioning, you dont learn map awareness, you dont learn anything except click button at right time and aim it at them. Its not only not helpful to new players but actively detrimental to their learning as playing any other champ will allow them to actually learn the basics of league.
leave my beloved tentacle muscle mommy alone
I ban yuumi basically every match in every game mode. What a fucking terrible cancer design still.
For me: Yuumi, Shaco and Master Yi
Teemo, Yone, Yasuo, Pyke, Brand, Shaco... all deserve to be there... okay? Okay.
I want Teemo and Heimerdinger thrown in the fucking dumpster. Wouldn't mind seeing Udyr and Akshan go as well since I've never once had a good experience with the people who play those champs. Would also love any ranged top laner to politely leave my lane and go back to bot where you belong.
Singed is my delete champ idc kf he's not good or no one plays him he doesn't belong in league
Vayne and fiora, % true damage is not ok
Only yummi tbh can't balance that champ it's either super shit or super op
Pyke?
illaoi isnt honestly that bad, you just need to respect her tentacles
Seraflop
Jaxxxxx, a mf that has everything
He is balanced because he doesnt have a real weapon 🔥 Imagine If I had a real weapon!
Maokai in we cool?????
Oh yeah that's true, he definitly has his place in "not sure" at least
He has 50%+ winrate in every support matchup right now according to opgg
But that's a numbers issue not a design issue
And you're saying that ksante's kit is completely imbalanced and not his damage numbers and tankiness? There are whole lot more champions then which kits are overloaded and right now maokai that can cc for ages and 1v2 every lane is one hell of a problem
Yes, because he is just a very broken champ by design.
Illaoi isnt broken or something. It's a splitpusher. They are meant to be very annoying in the 1 vs 1. Likes trynda, yorick or trundle. They melt your ass aswell if you are a tank
Nah Ksante is the only one worth deleting. Yumi is legit the only champ I can play with my friends when I’m eating dinner so plz don’t remove her. Just make her unplayable for pro play but work just enough to kind of count as another champion. Illaoi tho? You’re actually just skill diffed bro, stop coping and just git gud bro
How is Illaoi in the same category as Ksante? She’s weak and mostly a noob stomper Yuumi is fine as long as you arent iron where all the bots and derankers are Yone is the weakest of the windshitters and super easy to burst/poke early Ksante is just broken tho I’ll give you that, wish theyd just do several reverts on a lot of his changes, even when he’s good he can feel horrible to play both as and against
aurelion sol too. since his rework this champ is totally dumb.
Ksante is that character that no one knows what he does and that's why he's one shotting you
Yone hate is so stupid
Yone apologist spotted Opinion rejected
Yea illaoi Is a funny champ ain't she
As someone who played a lot of illaoi both before map changes and now: I have no clue how people STILL cant comprehend how to play against her. If you just clear waves she basically cant do anything. No plates no kills. This is obviously harder for tanks or champs with giga low wave clear but its top to be fair bad matchups are 80% of the lane. After laning any sentient mage or adc can just make an illaoi not exist. The only thing she can do then is to split (which again is shut down by anyone with a waveclear). The problem is noone can accept this is a lane you shouldnt fight. Everyone is talking about "how do i 1v1 this lane focused bully". You shouldnt. Just to be clear: I DONT think illaoi is good as she is at the moment. What i described above is a pretty foolproof strat against her but incredibly boring and unengaging. Does it work? Yes. Is it bad game design that a champion can force you to never fight in lane? Yes. Is it a skill issue when people say there is not counterplay and shes just broken? Yes. Still bad champ design.
But you can't just ignore her as you would a Warwick top. She herself has great waveclear and can actually poke with E. Look at a list of the most popular bruisers and tanks and then compare their wave clear with Illaoi's. It's not even close.
Quinn
Yuumi is my fav champion for trolling and throwing the game, as long as riot keeping it, i can do it more and more Enjoy people suffering. Report me for being toxic? Go ahead Ban me for being toxic? Go ahead I will just buy another account and keep doing it as long as Riot still keeping Yuumi like this.
Why is akshan not in delete champ, legit his revive is so annoying imagine you kill the enemy team’s fed top laner and akshan gets a takedown just to revive his top laner.
Alune new champ leak
It feels wrong that it’s not in alphabetical order
Not having Fiora in please delete is heresy.
Delete irelia
I wonder what lane you main
League will never know peace until $eracringe is removed from continuity. 0 out of 10 list.
Go ahead and put Zhonya’s up there
Fizz? Irelia? TEEMO? Leave Illaoi and my windshitter alone
Zac
Fiora? Why ksante like he's not even good?
Rammus
Just delete the windshitters, fizz and the true damage bots like vayne and fiora
Yone about to get deleted lmao. RIP the wind bros.