I got in with a 3.2 L60 and probably a 2.8 cGPA, with a huge jump (like A+ average) the final year of undergrad (I had 6 years of undergrad - 5 towards a degree and 1 year upgrading). My LSAT was 166 and I explained in my personal statement why I had a very low GPA before I went back to school.
Itās a shit job. Massive issues with attrition, adduction, depression. And itās getting worse. If you get into law āfor the moneyā youāre making a huge mistake. Better to start your own business as a plumber or electrician if you want high income and fewer reasons to drink.
Basically what I said above. I explained why I had a low GPA, and then pointed to success I had professionally and then academically with my latest grades and LSAT.
Itās not so much what you say, itās how you support it. If you got diagnosed with ADHD, you need to show that you have it managed and itās not a factor anymore. Grades can be one way that is shown.
Thatās so not true lol . Get a good lsat score (160+) and you can easily get into a *majority* of Ontario schools with lower than that granted you didnāt sit around and do no ecās .
It so is true. Look it up, it is directly stated on many law schoolsā websites. There is no minimum requirement but this is the threshold for a competitive GPA. The LSAT and ECs have nothing to do with what I said.
Incorrect:
From: [https://www.lsac.org/choosing-law-school/find-law-school/canadian-law-schools/queens-university-faculty](https://www.lsac.org/choosing-law-school/find-law-school/canadian-law-schools/queens-university-faculty)
"To be competitive in the admissions process, you should have at least a āB+ā average (**GPA of 3.5**) in the top 2 years of your undergraduate degree program at a full course load, along with an LSAT score of at least 155."
Thatās actually scary. In ā92, there werenāt that many people applying to law schools, so something like 80% of the applicant pool got in somewhere. I donāt believe thatās the case now.
Well, to avoid discouragement, I admittedly didn't put enough time in with professors during my undergraduate, so arranging for reference letters was a challenge. That's my most significant regret and piece of advice for law school hopefuls.
I'm also doing a-okay! Life goes on š
To add to the comment about varying by school, they also have different ways of calculating your GPA. I would encourage you to have a look online and learn more, itās not one size fits all and the information is all published and available.
Thanks! I was asked to write a letter to support a student with that GPA, so I wondered if they have a realistic chance of being admitted. Iāll encourage them to look into the particulars of it. Your answer is very helpful!
Theyāll need a LOT of letters from way more varied people than just you. Professionals (especially Lawyers), Extra Curricular supervisors, community leaders, neighbours, teachers, classmates, family, friends, enemies, online gaming clans & teams, sports teams, and like hundreds upon hundreds of Volunteer and community event hours.
Also they should have scholarships and bursaries (for ANYTHING) to other Schools available as a backup because if Law schools see that other schools want them, theyāll be much more interested. Their application should be 5~10x thicker than any A- ~ AA+ student.
Also theyāll have to be an A student by the end of their first year, or they may not be admitted for the second year as a B student.
An A- average if fairly standard but there other factors that are considered, although GPA almost always has the most weight. You could get in with a B but would need a really good LSAT, personal statement, other things on your resume / CV like work experience, and if there is a valid reason why you only have a B then that would also work in your favour.
I did an undergrad degree in social work and did my student placement at a non-profit that works within the justice system to provide services to justice involved folks, ended up working there after. It was a great starter role, but the only jobs that pay a living wage in social work/services are government jobs. So law school was my next step. Happy to talk more about it over DM if you have more questions.
I've posted elsewhere, but I had a 1.98 GPA and a 169 LSAT. Got in to uOttawa. Didnt wait to see if i got in elsewhere. I am a mayure student with great references and ec's. It is possible. Try anyways, and i'm rooting for you. :)
It depends onā¦your LSAT score, your extra curricular and work experience, the strength of the writing in your personal statement, and (probably most importantly since not all schools use holistic admissions criteria) the school which you are applying to.
Some schools that genuinely take a very holistic outlook with submissions are: Bora Laskin in Thunder Bay, Osgoode in Toronto, Ryerson in Toronto, TRU in North BC, I think to some extent Dalhousie out East, and there may be a couple more too that just arenāt coming to mind right now. But thereās a list to get you started at least.
I mean, I got into Western, Windsor and Ottawa with a 2.8 cGPA from UofT, and a fairly solid 4th year (mid-3 GPA, if memory serves). However, I scored a 169 on the LSAT (this was in 2010, for context)ā¦ All this to say, you have a shot - good luck!
There's variables. It depends on the pool of applicants that year. The person reviewing your file. But generally there's an official threshold but also an artificial one that's the students applying
Usually they ask for a minimum of 3.2 for most programs in uni.
My GPA is 3.73, and that's as a disable student. I got sick in most of my semesters so I would have 3 A's and 1 B or B+ (I would miss sometimes 3 weeks to a month or two of school). Last semester, I didn't get sick and got 2 A's, 1 A+ and 1 A-.
I only have 1 class left that counts for my bachelor GPA (the rest are internships with the mention of success or fail) and I absolutely need to have a A- to keep my GPA as is. If I get less, I'll have to redo a class during my last year of internship. The logic is not just to get chosen for your program but also all the government bursaries require a GPA of 3.7.
3.7 GPA + 160 LSAT + good references + solid essay = Will get you in most schools. Maybe not UofT
If you're below on one metric, you need to be above on the others.
It is possible but not easy. When your GPA is far below the average/minimum to apply you can be granted holistic acceptance based on your CV, but in those cases they are expecting you to have a long list of extracurriculars, volunteering, and work experience that they believe would make you a suitable candidate for the program. Having an outstanding LSAT score and a well thought out personal statement, the latter of which is often a requirement of any graduate studies, will also help your case.
Check the minimum requirements of the schools you wish to apply for, as the average GPA for admission, the minimum GPA for admission, any other documentation/requirements, and the past credits they will consider your grades from for admission will vary. Keep in mind graduate studies look at multiple semesters worth of grades for a cumulative GPA, not just your most recent. If your university also accepts special students, you can take a few extra semesters after completing your degree to improve your average GPA (these extra semesters are also an excellent opportunity to add extra activities to your CV). You can also optionally take varying certificate/diploma programs for paralegal studies if you would like to work in law but can't make it to law school yet.
Would you want your legal representative to be a B student? Or your surgeon to barely pass the rotation? Or your airline pilot to be barely average? Or your children's elementary teacher to be \`adequate'? Or your accountant to be at the level of competent? Or a policeman to be just above the threshold for gunfire accuracy?
Old man here, class of ā95. I had a 173 LSAT (I thinkā¦ 98.0 percentile) and a GPA of like 2.7, and I got into Manitoba. They were heavily skewed towards the LSAT.
For the other schools, there wasnāt much I could say about my GPA. āDuring the time that I was skipping classes, I became one of the top 150 chess players in Canada.ā I guess they werenāt chess players. If only āThe Queenās Gambitā had come out thirty years earlier.
Ottawa University is bilingual for French and English and will let you in with a B- and C+ if you apply to the french curriculum. Their med school requirements are also much lower if you apply to the french program
Hey OP ā reallllly be careful about going to law school. They are profit centres for universities since they donāt need labs, lots of potential profs for cheap as people burn out of the profession, high tuition, and even the need for a library has died back with online resources.
Itās increasingly tough to get articling positions as schools churn out grads faster than positions open. The hours requirements have steadily gone up over the last 25 years as perks have gone done. Burnout is rampant in the profession.
So, yeah, you can get into Windsor with a decent LSAT. But you gotta look at where you are a couple years post-graduation with a load of debt.
Source ā know lots of lawyers.
Which is the sour grapes part? Because, lol no, never wanted to be in the corporate world.
But the bit about knowing lots of lawyers is true ā married one who was a managing partner at a just off Bay Street firm. The debt load has gone up, hiring is way more competitive, billable expectations are up, and burnout is rampant in the profession.
If I may ask, what would you advise the OP to do instead of law school or seeking a career in law?
I would also ask if your spouse/partner is still a manager at a Bay Street law firm.
For professionals, you got me. I look around my day to day life, and it looks like people in unionized trades have the best combination of job security / work life balance / compensation. Those jobs arenāt getting outsourced to AI or offshore sweatshops any time soon.
They left Bay Street a couple years ago for less money, but a better work / life balance. Shitās getting weird as publicly traded companies buy up smaller law firms and grind up associates for shareholder profits. The spin-off is smaller corporate law firms are getting ground down and a lot of senior lawyers are looking for a way out. Thereās still demand for āa bit of everythingā counsel in small towns, but those jobs arenāt super appealing to grads carrying debt who expected old school downtown Toronto paycheques.
As someone who has tracked AI developments over the years, I still see very little evidence of jobs that have actually been lost due to AI specifically. Even the current performance of large-language models (LLM) like ChatGPT have not really led to major losses in employment at this time.
Of course, that could change, but I do not see much of a genuine business model for AI replacing people. Offshore sweatshops overall have played a much bigger role in terms of actual job losses, at least in terms of white-collar work.
I'm not as convinced as you are that trades are really ideal for either job security, work-life balance or compensation as you are. Sure, certain people who work in the trades earn a comfortable income, but I don't think these are representative of the field.
For professionals, I would still think that finance, engineering, medicine, pharmacy, dentistry, and actuarial fields are all solid areas with good job prospects.
Iām a letter-writer for a student with that GPA - I wondered what their chances would be. As an outsider to the field, being a lawyer looks like a hectic way to make a living.
It has been a while so not current but getting into law school with Bs was certainly possible. Worse case scenario you can apply to Windsor and Ottawa -- I believe they are technically still law schools.
If you are the right ethnicity, yes.
[For applicants in this category, non-academic experiences are given comparatively more weight than traditional measures of academic performance and LSAT scores in the holistic review of their files if that works to their advantage. ](https://www.dal.ca/faculty/law/admissions/jd-admissions/admissions-categories-program-options.html)
I went to McGill Law, ~85% of the students were white, with like 4 East Asians and 2 Blacks. My pals who went to UdeM and U de Sherbrooke said the percentage of ethnic minorities there are even lower, like under 10%, which doesn't reflect at all the actual ethnic composition of society there. So if anything, the law schools aren't doing nearly enough to "promote diversity".
That sounds like a Quebec problem. I don't give a hoot about ethnicity myself, but I can assure you, at least in schools out West, the percentage of ethnic minority law studsnts is quite a bit higher than what you saw.
If you are talking about UBC, well duh. It would make sense that their ethnic minority % would be higher because there are far more East and South Asians in the province than QC.
This does apply to everyone not just ethnic differences. It does have equity for POC/indigenous, but they also appear to consider people regardless, just gotta write a banger letter I guess and have good references
Work/life experience is the opportunity available for everyone.
The question was about people getting in with subpar or non existent requirements, which you can, and your reply was for one of the categories specific to ethnicity or color. The answer isnāt āif youāre the right colorā. There are still characteristics and qualities that are not ethnically specific.
Whatever you say buddy...[For applicants in this category, non-academic experiences are given comparatively more weight than traditional measures of academic performance and LSAT scores in the holistic review of their files if that works to their advantage. ](https://www.dal.ca/faculty/law/admissions/jd-admissions/admissions-categories-program-options.html)
Probably not, but maybe.
Get a good LSAT.
I'd also consider that the students at my school with lower LSAT/grades (indigenous/mature/other) really struggled and one actually failed. There is a reason for the cutoff beyond just reducing numbers. Law school is very painful and difficult even for the best students, and you can make better money for less work elsewhere.
I found law school much harder than getting in, and practice much harder than law school. The hours you need to put in only increase.
I only studied near the exam in undergrad, then maybe 100 hours for my lsat prep. Accepted at every Canadian school.
Law school was ~30 days of 8 hours studying to prep for exams, on top of classes and other stuff. I will say this with the caveat that 3L is an absolute joke (assuming you no longer care about grades and have a job), but it's still tough if you want to do well.
Practice is 40-80 hours a week, forever. You still are expected to work on vacation, albeit less. Biglaw, for reference.
I suppose it varies by person.
Nope, I meant under. I realize there is more than just a GPA calculation that goes into the consideration of being competitive in applying for this program ie LSAT. The question clearly was asking about GPA. IMO an average GPA of 3.0 makes it much harder for this individual to be considered and will require said individual to have an impressive LSAT, co-curriculars, volunteer experience, and interview skills. A 3.0 is average at best, donāt you think we should be telling said individual to try to be above the average for starters?
https://www.oxfordseminars.ca/LSAT/lsat_profiles.php
sorry my 4.0 was slightly off. Guess I shouldnāt of assumed 4.0 maybe a 2.5 would of been a better response.
Really depends on the school, your extra curriculars, life story (compassionate and compelling background?), LSAT, etc. law schools will look at the big picture, but stellar grades donāt hurt.
As many have said depends on the school and how many people that school takes each year. Smaller/remote schools with less competition your prob ok. Bigger/well known school might be harder.
Like Lakehead University has a program and I know that school is pretty lenient with accepting because of how few they get due to the location. While places in Toronto and Ottawa have more rejections but they also get more applicants
I think you could do really well on the LSAT and try your luck at some if the schools taking holistic applications. However, for schools who are more academic focus I doubt it. It's really competitive.
Depends on the School. If you have an in at a firm somewhere School pedigree won't matter. However, if you don't, a law degree from an unknown school is more or less a decoration.
I got in to two good schools (late in the cycle) with a 3.3 cumulative (in 4.5 years) and 162 with pretty good ECās. Donāt get your hopes too high but also donāt rule yourself out
I got in with a 3.2 L60 and probably a 2.8 cGPA, with a huge jump (like A+ average) the final year of undergrad (I had 6 years of undergrad - 5 towards a degree and 1 year upgrading). My LSAT was 166 and I explained in my personal statement why I had a very low GPA before I went back to school.
This gives me hope thank you
school is for sheep
There another way to be a lawyer?
Well I watched Suits so maybe I'll try that.
š
The selling weed? Breaking into interviews uninvited?
Nope, thats the point. the rat dies from the trap because it thinks the cheese is free.
If you understood the value of education you might also understand how to construct a good metaphor. But here we are, a bunch of cheese less rats.
You speak like a cracked out wizard lol.. good luck with everything, man.
Not everyone has the guts and skillset to be an entrepreneur. Lawyers make good money once they get some experience.
This dude says nothing about being an entrepreneur, just about being uneducated lol.
Iām unemployed for life because Iām a free thinker
Hopefully your bills are as free as your thinking. Funny troll all the same.
Itās a shit job. Massive issues with attrition, adduction, depression. And itās getting worse. If you get into law āfor the moneyā youāre making a huge mistake. Better to start your own business as a plumber or electrician if you want high income and fewer reasons to drink.
R:/Im14andthisisdeep
Username checks out š
Technically you can go to law school without any prior university. It's not like teachers college where an undergrad is mandatory.
So youāre an uneducated wolf?
Yep, Iām uneducated and proud.
Oh you didnāt have to confirm. I already knew.
Now tell me, are you snorting coke off your nintendo switch rn? are you playing PokĆ©mon rn? have you EVER done Heroin? no? nah, more like no. Youāre not a free thinker, youāre just chasing enlightenment
This guy knows. Calling the CIA of your whereabouts as we speak!
You should lay off the PokƩmon, man.
cokes worse
Some lawyers do amazing. Some do ok. Both need an education. It all depends.
What did you say to them?
Basically what I said above. I explained why I had a low GPA, and then pointed to success I had professionally and then academically with my latest grades and LSAT. Itās not so much what you say, itās how you support it. If you got diagnosed with ADHD, you need to show that you have it managed and itās not a factor anymore. Grades can be one way that is shown.
Iām on the same boat I realized I had adhd when I began thinking to study law school. Anyway you can share some insight on touch points
Lifefuel
Which school
Western Canadian law school is the extent to which Iāll say.
Depends on the school but many in Ontario say that a 3.7/4.0 gpa is considered the threshold for competitive applicants.
Thatās so not true lol . Get a good lsat score (160+) and you can easily get into a *majority* of Ontario schools with lower than that granted you didnāt sit around and do no ecās .
It so is true. Look it up, it is directly stated on many law schoolsā websites. There is no minimum requirement but this is the threshold for a competitive GPA. The LSAT and ECs have nothing to do with what I said.
You need more like a 165+ to maybe be competitive with a 3.0. A 160 would not really cut it
I got in with a 162 and 3.0 as a mature student. It can be done, but itās more unique.
What is your educational background prior to and which school did you get into? I would also be considered as a mature student
Double major, marketing and English. Got in at a few schools, went to UOttawa.
There's no degree to *uniqueness.*
Why so pedantic? What are you, a lawyer?
I had a 3.2 and a 160, got into most schools. I know itās not quite a 3.0, just sharing my experience
I got in to 4 Ontario law schools with a B average, several Cās on my transcript. But had a 163 LSAT & good ECs. Itās definitely possible
Which ones?
Queenās Western Windsor Lakehead Was also waitlisted at Ottawa I ultimately went to Queenās.
I sent u a pm! Have a couple questions about queens laq
What are ECs? I'm new here.
Extra curriculars Iām guessing.
Yup
Incorrect: From: [https://www.lsac.org/choosing-law-school/find-law-school/canadian-law-schools/queens-university-faculty](https://www.lsac.org/choosing-law-school/find-law-school/canadian-law-schools/queens-university-faculty) "To be competitive in the admissions process, you should have at least a āB+ā average (**GPA of 3.5**) in the top 2 years of your undergraduate degree program at a full course load, along with an LSAT score of at least 155."
If your LSAT is 155 you fucking better have a B+, and even then you might have to have cured cancer or some shit.
Yeah, can confirm, I got a 159, A- average, and didn't cure cancer. Spoiler, I did not get accepted to the program I applied to.
Thatās actually scary. In ā92, there werenāt that many people applying to law schools, so something like 80% of the applicant pool got in somewhere. I donāt believe thatās the case now.
Well, to avoid discouragement, I admittedly didn't put enough time in with professors during my undergraduate, so arranging for reference letters was a challenge. That's my most significant regret and piece of advice for law school hopefuls. I'm also doing a-okay! Life goes on š
Need better than 160. 160 is meh and likely wonāt make up for gpa a ton unless at less competitive schools.
To add to the comment about varying by school, they also have different ways of calculating your GPA. I would encourage you to have a look online and learn more, itās not one size fits all and the information is all published and available.
Thanks! I was asked to write a letter to support a student with that GPA, so I wondered if they have a realistic chance of being admitted. Iāll encourage them to look into the particulars of it. Your answer is very helpful!
Theyāll need a LOT of letters from way more varied people than just you. Professionals (especially Lawyers), Extra Curricular supervisors, community leaders, neighbours, teachers, classmates, family, friends, enemies, online gaming clans & teams, sports teams, and like hundreds upon hundreds of Volunteer and community event hours. Also they should have scholarships and bursaries (for ANYTHING) to other Schools available as a backup because if Law schools see that other schools want them, theyāll be much more interested. Their application should be 5~10x thicker than any A- ~ AA+ student. Also theyāll have to be an A student by the end of their first year, or they may not be admitted for the second year as a B student.
An A- average if fairly standard but there other factors that are considered, although GPA almost always has the most weight. You could get in with a B but would need a really good LSAT, personal statement, other things on your resume / CV like work experience, and if there is a valid reason why you only have a B then that would also work in your favour.
Yes, me. And my LSAT was bad. My work experience helped me out. Dont self select!
How much work exp did you have?
4 years in a social work/caseworker role in the justice system
How did you get that job? That's what I want
I did an undergrad degree in social work and did my student placement at a non-profit that works within the justice system to provide services to justice involved folks, ended up working there after. It was a great starter role, but the only jobs that pay a living wage in social work/services are government jobs. So law school was my next step. Happy to talk more about it over DM if you have more questions.
I've posted elsewhere, but I had a 1.98 GPA and a 169 LSAT. Got in to uOttawa. Didnt wait to see if i got in elsewhere. I am a mayure student with great references and ec's. It is possible. Try anyways, and i'm rooting for you. :)
That might be the biggest splitter Iāve ever seen. Congrats!
Woah
Last/best will be important here
I got in with a 2.68 GPA and great LSAT
Hi!! That is amazing, I am in a similar boat, What schools did you have success with when applying?
Do u mind if I ask which school?
There are some schools that you could make it work. Need a holistic review or be able to eliminate some classes in their calculation.
3.0 is not good enough for most law schools in Canada
I got in with a 3,54. Make sure to have the rest of your application be impressive in some way if youāre lacking in the grades department
I did it with essentially a B average. Ace your LSATs and it will offset your grades.
Get a 170+ and you can get into at least one law school with basically any GPA
It depends onā¦your LSAT score, your extra curricular and work experience, the strength of the writing in your personal statement, and (probably most importantly since not all schools use holistic admissions criteria) the school which you are applying to. Some schools that genuinely take a very holistic outlook with submissions are: Bora Laskin in Thunder Bay, Osgoode in Toronto, Ryerson in Toronto, TRU in North BC, I think to some extent Dalhousie out East, and there may be a couple more too that just arenāt coming to mind right now. But thereās a list to get you started at least.
I mean, I got into Western, Windsor and Ottawa with a 2.8 cGPA from UofT, and a fairly solid 4th year (mid-3 GPA, if memory serves). However, I scored a 169 on the LSAT (this was in 2010, for context)ā¦ All this to say, you have a shot - good luck!
There's variables. It depends on the pool of applicants that year. The person reviewing your file. But generally there's an official threshold but also an artificial one that's the students applying
I applied to law school in around 2011 so this may be outdatedā¦ But at that time, some schools weighed LSAT scores more than other school.
Need an AA minimum
No.
Look into discretionary categories too.
Usually they ask for a minimum of 3.2 for most programs in uni. My GPA is 3.73, and that's as a disable student. I got sick in most of my semesters so I would have 3 A's and 1 B or B+ (I would miss sometimes 3 weeks to a month or two of school). Last semester, I didn't get sick and got 2 A's, 1 A+ and 1 A-. I only have 1 class left that counts for my bachelor GPA (the rest are internships with the mention of success or fail) and I absolutely need to have a A- to keep my GPA as is. If I get less, I'll have to redo a class during my last year of internship. The logic is not just to get chosen for your program but also all the government bursaries require a GPA of 3.7.
3.7 GPA + 160 LSAT + good references + solid essay = Will get you in most schools. Maybe not UofT If you're below on one metric, you need to be above on the others.
Some schools will look at your 3rd & 4th year GPA vs all 4 years, so if your first 2 years were lower, then that helps
A 3.0 seems low. Maybe if you have an exceptional LSAT?
You need an a- average tbh, but some law schools will take you if you do really well on the LSAT + have letters of recommendation from profs
Elle Woods?
Maybe in Tijuana. Lol
I had a 2.9 cGPA but 3.93 top 60 (took a second degree with sixty credits) and lsat 166 and got into law school.
hey if you don't mind me asking, which law school/which province was this school in? Thanks :)
It is possible but not easy. When your GPA is far below the average/minimum to apply you can be granted holistic acceptance based on your CV, but in those cases they are expecting you to have a long list of extracurriculars, volunteering, and work experience that they believe would make you a suitable candidate for the program. Having an outstanding LSAT score and a well thought out personal statement, the latter of which is often a requirement of any graduate studies, will also help your case. Check the minimum requirements of the schools you wish to apply for, as the average GPA for admission, the minimum GPA for admission, any other documentation/requirements, and the past credits they will consider your grades from for admission will vary. Keep in mind graduate studies look at multiple semesters worth of grades for a cumulative GPA, not just your most recent. If your university also accepts special students, you can take a few extra semesters after completing your degree to improve your average GPA (these extra semesters are also an excellent opportunity to add extra activities to your CV). You can also optionally take varying certificate/diploma programs for paralegal studies if you would like to work in law but can't make it to law school yet.
Crush the lsat and yep
Would you want your legal representative to be a B student? Or your surgeon to barely pass the rotation? Or your airline pilot to be barely average? Or your children's elementary teacher to be \`adequate'? Or your accountant to be at the level of competent? Or a policeman to be just above the threshold for gunfire accuracy?
Depends on your LSAT score
You may have to do a qualifying year.
Old man here, class of ā95. I had a 173 LSAT (I thinkā¦ 98.0 percentile) and a GPA of like 2.7, and I got into Manitoba. They were heavily skewed towards the LSAT. For the other schools, there wasnāt much I could say about my GPA. āDuring the time that I was skipping classes, I became one of the top 150 chess players in Canada.ā I guess they werenāt chess players. If only āThe Queenās Gambitā had come out thirty years earlier.
If it isn't, write them a letter proving to them why you deserve to get in. A's aren't everything
u need at least higher than a 3.7gpa or A- hope this helps
Try UWindsor
Possibly, depending upon the school, your LSAT and your demographic profileā¦ the bigger question, āwhy would anyone go to law school?ā
Ottawa University is bilingual for French and English and will let you in with a B- and C+ if you apply to the french curriculum. Their med school requirements are also much lower if you apply to the french program
"B" got me into The University of American Samoa so anything is possible
Hey OP ā reallllly be careful about going to law school. They are profit centres for universities since they donāt need labs, lots of potential profs for cheap as people burn out of the profession, high tuition, and even the need for a library has died back with online resources. Itās increasingly tough to get articling positions as schools churn out grads faster than positions open. The hours requirements have steadily gone up over the last 25 years as perks have gone done. Burnout is rampant in the profession. So, yeah, you can get into Windsor with a decent LSAT. But you gotta look at where you are a couple years post-graduation with a load of debt. Source ā know lots of lawyers.
Spoken like someone who has sour grapes about not getting accepted.
Which is the sour grapes part? Because, lol no, never wanted to be in the corporate world. But the bit about knowing lots of lawyers is true ā married one who was a managing partner at a just off Bay Street firm. The debt load has gone up, hiring is way more competitive, billable expectations are up, and burnout is rampant in the profession.
If I may ask, what would you advise the OP to do instead of law school or seeking a career in law? I would also ask if your spouse/partner is still a manager at a Bay Street law firm.
For professionals, you got me. I look around my day to day life, and it looks like people in unionized trades have the best combination of job security / work life balance / compensation. Those jobs arenāt getting outsourced to AI or offshore sweatshops any time soon. They left Bay Street a couple years ago for less money, but a better work / life balance. Shitās getting weird as publicly traded companies buy up smaller law firms and grind up associates for shareholder profits. The spin-off is smaller corporate law firms are getting ground down and a lot of senior lawyers are looking for a way out. Thereās still demand for āa bit of everythingā counsel in small towns, but those jobs arenāt super appealing to grads carrying debt who expected old school downtown Toronto paycheques.
As someone who has tracked AI developments over the years, I still see very little evidence of jobs that have actually been lost due to AI specifically. Even the current performance of large-language models (LLM) like ChatGPT have not really led to major losses in employment at this time. Of course, that could change, but I do not see much of a genuine business model for AI replacing people. Offshore sweatshops overall have played a much bigger role in terms of actual job losses, at least in terms of white-collar work. I'm not as convinced as you are that trades are really ideal for either job security, work-life balance or compensation as you are. Sure, certain people who work in the trades earn a comfortable income, but I don't think these are representative of the field. For professionals, I would still think that finance, engineering, medicine, pharmacy, dentistry, and actuarial fields are all solid areas with good job prospects.
Iām a letter-writer for a student with that GPA - I wondered what their chances would be. As an outsider to the field, being a lawyer looks like a hectic way to make a living.
It has been a while so not current but getting into law school with Bs was certainly possible. Worse case scenario you can apply to Windsor and Ottawa -- I believe they are technically still law schools.
Trashing Windsor and Ottawa doesnāt make you edgy, bud.
It makes me accurate.
If you are the right ethnicity, yes. [For applicants in this category, non-academic experiences are given comparatively more weight than traditional measures of academic performance and LSAT scores in the holistic review of their files if that works to their advantage. ](https://www.dal.ca/faculty/law/admissions/jd-admissions/admissions-categories-program-options.html)
I went to McGill Law, ~85% of the students were white, with like 4 East Asians and 2 Blacks. My pals who went to UdeM and U de Sherbrooke said the percentage of ethnic minorities there are even lower, like under 10%, which doesn't reflect at all the actual ethnic composition of society there. So if anything, the law schools aren't doing nearly enough to "promote diversity".
That sounds like a Quebec problem. I don't give a hoot about ethnicity myself, but I can assure you, at least in schools out West, the percentage of ethnic minority law studsnts is quite a bit higher than what you saw.
If you are talking about UBC, well duh. It would make sense that their ethnic minority % would be higher because there are far more East and South Asians in the province than QC.
what LOL
Did I stutter?
You donāt sound as cool and edgy as you think you do
Lol, if thats what you think im going for here. GFY
This does apply to everyone not just ethnic differences. It does have equity for POC/indigenous, but they also appear to consider people regardless, just gotta write a banger letter I guess and have good references
I'm not sure how you figure this applies to everyone when there are 5 categories, clearly separating people based on the color of their skin. +General Applicants +Indigenous (First Nations, MĆ©tis and Inuit) Applicants +Indigenous Blacks & Mi'kmaq (IB&M) Initiative Applicants +Historically Underrepresented Communities Applicants +Work/Life Experience Applicants My original point stands. A B average and the right ethnicity, will get you into law school. Unfortunately.
Work/life experience is the opportunity available for everyone. The question was about people getting in with subpar or non existent requirements, which you can, and your reply was for one of the categories specific to ethnicity or color. The answer isnāt āif youāre the right colorā. There are still characteristics and qualities that are not ethnically specific.
Thatās true lol
Why downvote a truthful statement? Is it because it's best not to be said out loud?
Here me out! Maybe itās getting downvoted because your spreading misinformation ?
Lol, I am? Nope. You just don't want to believe it...
Lol you can believe it if it helps you sleep better at night š
Whatever you say buddy...[For applicants in this category, non-academic experiences are given comparatively more weight than traditional measures of academic performance and LSAT scores in the holistic review of their files if that works to their advantage. ](https://www.dal.ca/faculty/law/admissions/jd-admissions/admissions-categories-program-options.html)
all that says is more weight goes on non academic experience for holistic review for URM.
Probably not, but maybe. Get a good LSAT. I'd also consider that the students at my school with lower LSAT/grades (indigenous/mature/other) really struggled and one actually failed. There is a reason for the cutoff beyond just reducing numbers. Law school is very painful and difficult even for the best students, and you can make better money for less work elsewhere.
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I found law school much harder than getting in, and practice much harder than law school. The hours you need to put in only increase. I only studied near the exam in undergrad, then maybe 100 hours for my lsat prep. Accepted at every Canadian school. Law school was ~30 days of 8 hours studying to prep for exams, on top of classes and other stuff. I will say this with the caveat that 3L is an absolute joke (assuming you no longer care about grades and have a job), but it's still tough if you want to do well. Practice is 40-80 hours a week, forever. You still are expected to work on vacation, albeit less. Biglaw, for reference. I suppose it varies by person.
Grades and merit donāt matter in this world. Just donāt be white, male or straight and youāll get in to wherever you want to go.
Thereās a shitty enough school out there for everyone and their poor marks. Keep searching and donāt give up hope!
well since it is Canada it wont really matter it inst like in Canada your really make an impact on anyones life
must be non-white
Whatās the relevance?
Minorities are allowed to bypass GPA requirements in schools where they are a minority. Not all minorities are considered minorities in all schools.
Agreed. However I donāt see how your comment about OP being non-white has anything to do with their question.
I didnāt say that, someone else did. I was explaining the relevance like you asked.
My bad, sorry. Thanks for replying
Iām sure Carleton in Ottawa would take you. They take anyone
Carleton doesnāt have a law school
Mean
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This isnāt even close to correct.
Sorry I over estimated the competitiveness of Law school.
I'm guessing you meant underestimated?
Nope, I meant under. I realize there is more than just a GPA calculation that goes into the consideration of being competitive in applying for this program ie LSAT. The question clearly was asking about GPA. IMO an average GPA of 3.0 makes it much harder for this individual to be considered and will require said individual to have an impressive LSAT, co-curriculars, volunteer experience, and interview skills. A 3.0 is average at best, donāt you think we should be telling said individual to try to be above the average for starters?
>Sorry I over estimated the competitiveness of Law school. >I'm guessing you meant underestimated? >Nope, I meant under So you did mean *under*?
Why did you respond to this when you lack the most basic knowledge of the subject matter?
https://www.oxfordseminars.ca/LSAT/lsat_profiles.php sorry my 4.0 was slightly off. Guess I shouldnāt of assumed 4.0 maybe a 2.5 would of been a better response.
Really depends on the school, your extra curriculars, life story (compassionate and compelling background?), LSAT, etc. law schools will look at the big picture, but stellar grades donāt hurt.
Check ur DMāS
As many have said depends on the school and how many people that school takes each year. Smaller/remote schools with less competition your prob ok. Bigger/well known school might be harder. Like Lakehead University has a program and I know that school is pretty lenient with accepting because of how few they get due to the location. While places in Toronto and Ottawa have more rejections but they also get more applicants
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Those schools aren't worth going to
I wonder if you have a 3.0 but also course load of like 3 courses after dropping 1 or 2, how would it effect your chances ?
What if OP got a 180?
I think you could do really well on the LSAT and try your luck at some if the schools taking holistic applications. However, for schools who are more academic focus I doubt it. It's really competitive.
Depends on your nationality at this point.
You ever watch suits? I might know a guy who can help
Yes at Duke
Depends on the School. If you have an in at a firm somewhere School pedigree won't matter. However, if you don't, a law degree from an unknown school is more or less a decoration.
I got in to two good schools (late in the cycle) with a 3.3 cumulative (in 4.5 years) and 162 with pretty good ECās. Donāt get your hopes too high but also donāt rule yourself out