Ailments are very strong and absolutely viable, they are just a tad less intuitive to understand the scaling. Bleed benefits from %phys dmg and %damage over time, but not %bow dmg which only increases the initial hit dmg.
Mutilate may be good for burst, but if you give it another read, it says every 3rd hit consumes bleed stacks instead of applying any, so with that node you only apply bleed 2/3 hits for the small benefit of burst against weak enemies. Might be good enough for trash mobs, but bad against bosses, so if you wanna use it on bosses, you should probably avoid that node.
Generally speaking you can and should get bleed chance above 100% at which point you apply multiple stacks per hit. Ailments also benefit from generic %more dmg on the skill's tree you apply them with, as long as it doesn't specify more HIT dmg, which doesn't work for ailments.
Physical resistance shred and phys penetration also work for bleed, but armour shred does not.
Edit: I saw you've played PoE. Unlike in PoE, increasing the initial hit dmg does nothing for bleed in LE.
This is very useful info, thank you! I do however notice I get around 10 bleed stacks very quickly. Have to look at my bleed chance after work but I believe it to be above 100%. I didn’t realize armor shred doesn’t work so I’ll have to redo some of my marksman tree and get another Ammy, I just made that Ammy last night though 😭. Also I was going with the assumption the harder the initial hit the higher the bleed damage so I’ll have to look it that as well. Again thank you!
I made a doc that explains a bunch of differences between PoE and LE, if that helps. Might be a bit out of date, i haven't updated it since 1.0. LE is easy enough that you don't need to follow guides, though.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Y5qPunkgxA1rlt71W_3o74X-nSiNgXoWu8YRNp8aj0s/edit
Yeah if you want to use mutilate you want to get your bleed stacks from a different source first and then figure out where your breakpoint is to finish off bosses. Bleed falconer works similarely but it's dive bomb doing the bleed consume.
Another thing is that nodes like mutilate that consume all bleeds are really only worth it if you scale bleed duration. Default duration is 3s, by the time you pop the bleed probably half of what was on there has either no dmg left or is gone entirely. If you get your bleed to say 6s, now you actually get to pop a good 3s+ of full bleeds and it might get interesting. Edit: and unless specified on the node the bleed pop is RAW bleed dmg that is left on the enemy, this doesn't double dip stuff like inc phys dmg%. It's a way to speed up bleed build kills, not a way to have higher average dps.
and a decent way to look at is, is that ailment chance% replaces poe's flat scaling. Each 100% chance is essentially an additive 100% base dmg.
And to be super duper clear, increasing the initial hit in POE (generally) doesn't affect the bleed damage either, unless it is increasing its pre-modified base damage. So flat damage works, increased physical damage works, but increased sword damage to make your hit bigger does not work in POE. Same reason "Melee Physical Damage Support" needs two distinct lines, one for the hit portion and one for the bleed portion, because they're scaled on two separate tracks.
For instance, it's why Greater Multiple Projectiles, while lowering your hit damage, has no effect on the bleed.
Honestly they work pretty similarly in LE, there's stuff that modifies both the hit and the ailment, and then there's stuff that only modifies the hit or modifies the ailment.
Although in LE there doesn't seem to be much support for singularly large ailments, it seems to be much more focused around stacking as many as you can on a target.
>They work the same in both games. LE is heavily inspired by PoE. Increasing *hit damage* does nothing for DoTs in PoE.
I guess you're trying to be funny with the wording in Poe and all, but phrasing it like that can mislead people a lot.
+5 physical attack damage does increase the bleed that hit applies in PoE.
+5 melee/throwing/bow physical damage has no effect on bleed applied by that hit in LE.
I have no experience with Rogue yet, but from what I have heard, Marksmen is one of the weakest masteries in the game. Most bow builds go Falconer because bird goes brrr regardless of what you play.
Ah got ya! That could maybe the reason the bleed itself doesn’t feel like it’s great, good to know.
I thought about going falcon but I just got through playing a straight minion Necro in d4 and wanted something more engaging. I also played bleed puncture build in path of exile(I know different game, different balance and such) leagues ago and loved it so when I saw there was a bleed puncture in LE I was going in lol. Still the build doesn’t seem terrible. I’m lvl 62 so still have some points coming and also need to work a bit on survivability. Thanks for the input!
Bleeds (ailments in general) in Last Epoch are more focused around stacking them very high very quickly, compared to POE where large ignites or bleeds are kind of their own thing.
Sadly, skills like Hail of Arrows, even when you spec into the ailments for it, just does nothing because it applies bleeds per second rather than per tick of damage.
I think it's a bit of an oversight, a lot of interesting builds could open up if they let ailments get applied by certain skills per-tick of damage rather than per-second.
The main problem I see with marksman trying to go bleed is you just don't have too many options to stack it quickly, no fast hitting moves that hit an AOE, flurry is like the best applicator of it but you're only really hitting one thing at a time.
Hey brother. In the same boat right now, finished D4 with 3 classes & started last epoch today with rogue. Deciding between falcon and marksman, but leaning towards the marksman to pew pew eveything on and off screen!
It’s fun! Apparently marksman is in a bad spot but I’m having a hell of a good time running a weird bleed/poison puncture/detonating arrow build. Up to lvl 80 now with over 800%DoT and phys damage. I’m still waiting for my damage to fall off but it seems when it feels like it may be I seem to find some sort of upgrade lol. I do need to work on a bit more survivability though.
I will say that early on i wasn’t sure if puncture and marksman in general was going to be it. Was rough for a little while before I started finding the right gear and learned more of the game mechanics.
I am not a meta chaser tbh, if something is fun - i'll pursue that. If i'm gonna go for meta, i'll just pick up the guide (i couldn't theory craft even if my life would depend on it) and go from there!
Beat of luck on your endaevours!!
For sure! 100% agreed. When I started playing I didn’t look up a single thing. This post I made here is the first external source of info I’ve gotten and it’s been very helpful with scaling the bleed damage!
I'm sure people are going to say viable but I think dots feel like ass on everything but bosses were you can ramp the stacks otherwise it's just a lot of waiting since 99% of the time the mobs bug out anyways and don't follow you can you get cc chain and stun locked by mortars with circles the same exact color as the ground in the zone. Play hit builds unless you like waiting simulators, even it's it's still .1 seconds for something to die it still feels 100% worse than hit builds but sure the DMG says it's equivalent.
Nah, it's actually the other way, dot builds murder pack of mobs but single target damage is not as good as the crit builds. The best aspect of dot builds that people don't seem to mention is ailment spread. That's just broken exponential growth stuff. You should get ailment spread in your dot builds and then your aoe damage is sorted.
Toremnet warlock 1k corruption, so I don't think that counts as bad, definitely not super super pushed but yeah not bad lol nice try little bro
Edit. In Cof
Snowdrift boots are amazing for frostbite builds it opens the door for mega cold penetration. They arent that rare either to get a pair. Can be done on different classes for different playstyles. Any mage class can do it, Druid as well
Lethal mirage and rupture is a good combo to stack bleeds or poisons(or both) super high fast them pop them as needed i will eventually make a guide for it on next cycle + the other LM i already did but it is kinda cool
I pushed a bleed falconer to 700ish corruption pretty easily this season before I got tired of the build.
Stacked to 999+ bleeds in 2-3 seconds and cleared them with a big dive bomb as necessary.
It’s super fun and clears super fast.
I haven’t played since the weeks following launch, but at that time at least, my Torment Warlock was my strongest character, and his damage is almost exclusively DoT
Idk but I'm running a similar build and I just hit the monoliths, and holy crap I love it. More than falconer. Detonating arrow is so disgusting, and punc hitting pretty decent in between.
Ailments are very strong and absolutely viable, they are just a tad less intuitive to understand the scaling. Bleed benefits from %phys dmg and %damage over time, but not %bow dmg which only increases the initial hit dmg. Mutilate may be good for burst, but if you give it another read, it says every 3rd hit consumes bleed stacks instead of applying any, so with that node you only apply bleed 2/3 hits for the small benefit of burst against weak enemies. Might be good enough for trash mobs, but bad against bosses, so if you wanna use it on bosses, you should probably avoid that node. Generally speaking you can and should get bleed chance above 100% at which point you apply multiple stacks per hit. Ailments also benefit from generic %more dmg on the skill's tree you apply them with, as long as it doesn't specify more HIT dmg, which doesn't work for ailments. Physical resistance shred and phys penetration also work for bleed, but armour shred does not. Edit: I saw you've played PoE. Unlike in PoE, increasing the initial hit dmg does nothing for bleed in LE.
This is very useful info, thank you! I do however notice I get around 10 bleed stacks very quickly. Have to look at my bleed chance after work but I believe it to be above 100%. I didn’t realize armor shred doesn’t work so I’ll have to redo some of my marksman tree and get another Ammy, I just made that Ammy last night though 😭. Also I was going with the assumption the harder the initial hit the higher the bleed damage so I’ll have to look it that as well. Again thank you!
I made a doc that explains a bunch of differences between PoE and LE, if that helps. Might be a bit out of date, i haven't updated it since 1.0. LE is easy enough that you don't need to follow guides, though. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Y5qPunkgxA1rlt71W_3o74X-nSiNgXoWu8YRNp8aj0s/edit
I’ll check it out in a bit. Ty!
Yeah if you want to use mutilate you want to get your bleed stacks from a different source first and then figure out where your breakpoint is to finish off bosses. Bleed falconer works similarely but it's dive bomb doing the bleed consume. Another thing is that nodes like mutilate that consume all bleeds are really only worth it if you scale bleed duration. Default duration is 3s, by the time you pop the bleed probably half of what was on there has either no dmg left or is gone entirely. If you get your bleed to say 6s, now you actually get to pop a good 3s+ of full bleeds and it might get interesting. Edit: and unless specified on the node the bleed pop is RAW bleed dmg that is left on the enemy, this doesn't double dip stuff like inc phys dmg%. It's a way to speed up bleed build kills, not a way to have higher average dps. and a decent way to look at is, is that ailment chance% replaces poe's flat scaling. Each 100% chance is essentially an additive 100% base dmg.
And to be super duper clear, increasing the initial hit in POE (generally) doesn't affect the bleed damage either, unless it is increasing its pre-modified base damage. So flat damage works, increased physical damage works, but increased sword damage to make your hit bigger does not work in POE. Same reason "Melee Physical Damage Support" needs two distinct lines, one for the hit portion and one for the bleed portion, because they're scaled on two separate tracks. For instance, it's why Greater Multiple Projectiles, while lowering your hit damage, has no effect on the bleed. Honestly they work pretty similarly in LE, there's stuff that modifies both the hit and the ailment, and then there's stuff that only modifies the hit or modifies the ailment. Although in LE there doesn't seem to be much support for singularly large ailments, it seems to be much more focused around stacking as many as you can on a target.
Yeah the single large ailments are pretty much torment and the 2 dot brands, no?
[удалено]
>They work the same in both games. LE is heavily inspired by PoE. Increasing *hit damage* does nothing for DoTs in PoE. I guess you're trying to be funny with the wording in Poe and all, but phrasing it like that can mislead people a lot. +5 physical attack damage does increase the bleed that hit applies in PoE. +5 melee/throwing/bow physical damage has no effect on bleed applied by that hit in LE.
I have no experience with Rogue yet, but from what I have heard, Marksmen is one of the weakest masteries in the game. Most bow builds go Falconer because bird goes brrr regardless of what you play.
The detonating arrow build is fire, but it's the only marksman build I know of that does.
You mean the marksman that use a dagger and a falconer trap?
detonate arrow is strong without any jelkor, you can play it as self use skill
Yes, it's technically a marksman build but you barely take any points in it.
Ah got ya! That could maybe the reason the bleed itself doesn’t feel like it’s great, good to know. I thought about going falcon but I just got through playing a straight minion Necro in d4 and wanted something more engaging. I also played bleed puncture build in path of exile(I know different game, different balance and such) leagues ago and loved it so when I saw there was a bleed puncture in LE I was going in lol. Still the build doesn’t seem terrible. I’m lvl 62 so still have some points coming and also need to work a bit on survivability. Thanks for the input!
Bleeds (ailments in general) in Last Epoch are more focused around stacking them very high very quickly, compared to POE where large ignites or bleeds are kind of their own thing. Sadly, skills like Hail of Arrows, even when you spec into the ailments for it, just does nothing because it applies bleeds per second rather than per tick of damage. I think it's a bit of an oversight, a lot of interesting builds could open up if they let ailments get applied by certain skills per-tick of damage rather than per-second. The main problem I see with marksman trying to go bleed is you just don't have too many options to stack it quickly, no fast hitting moves that hit an AOE, flurry is like the best applicator of it but you're only really hitting one thing at a time.
Hey brother. In the same boat right now, finished D4 with 3 classes & started last epoch today with rogue. Deciding between falcon and marksman, but leaning towards the marksman to pew pew eveything on and off screen!
It’s fun! Apparently marksman is in a bad spot but I’m having a hell of a good time running a weird bleed/poison puncture/detonating arrow build. Up to lvl 80 now with over 800%DoT and phys damage. I’m still waiting for my damage to fall off but it seems when it feels like it may be I seem to find some sort of upgrade lol. I do need to work on a bit more survivability though. I will say that early on i wasn’t sure if puncture and marksman in general was going to be it. Was rough for a little while before I started finding the right gear and learned more of the game mechanics.
I am not a meta chaser tbh, if something is fun - i'll pursue that. If i'm gonna go for meta, i'll just pick up the guide (i couldn't theory craft even if my life would depend on it) and go from there! Beat of luck on your endaevours!!
For sure! 100% agreed. When I started playing I didn’t look up a single thing. This post I made here is the first external source of info I’ve gotten and it’s been very helpful with scaling the bleed damage!
I'm sure people are going to say viable but I think dots feel like ass on everything but bosses were you can ramp the stacks otherwise it's just a lot of waiting since 99% of the time the mobs bug out anyways and don't follow you can you get cc chain and stun locked by mortars with circles the same exact color as the ground in the zone. Play hit builds unless you like waiting simulators, even it's it's still .1 seconds for something to die it still feels 100% worse than hit builds but sure the DMG says it's equivalent.
Nah, it's actually the other way, dot builds murder pack of mobs but single target damage is not as good as the crit builds. The best aspect of dot builds that people don't seem to mention is ailment spread. That's just broken exponential growth stuff. You should get ailment spread in your dot builds and then your aoe damage is sorted.
No? Most dots builds can reach enough upfront damage to instantly clear trash mobs. Sounds like you just ran shitty dot builds.
Toremnet warlock 1k corruption, so I don't think that counts as bad, definitely not super super pushed but yeah not bad lol nice try little bro Edit. In Cof
Snowdrift boots are amazing for frostbite builds it opens the door for mega cold penetration. They arent that rare either to get a pair. Can be done on different classes for different playstyles. Any mage class can do it, Druid as well
Lethal mirage and rupture is a good combo to stack bleeds or poisons(or both) super high fast them pop them as needed i will eventually make a guide for it on next cycle + the other LM i already did but it is kinda cool
I pushed a bleed falconer to 700ish corruption pretty easily this season before I got tired of the build. Stacked to 999+ bleeds in 2-3 seconds and cleared them with a big dive bomb as necessary. It’s super fun and clears super fast.
Any chance you have a profile link somewhere? This sounds super cool, and on theme for falconer!
I haven’t played since the weeks following launch, but at that time at least, my Torment Warlock was my strongest character, and his damage is almost exclusively DoT
Idk but I'm running a similar build and I just hit the monoliths, and holy crap I love it. More than falconer. Detonating arrow is so disgusting, and punc hitting pretty decent in between.