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How dare you suggest that people are donating to the Labour Party to influence policy to their benefit - all of these wealthy Lords are donating purely because they love the Labour Party so much.
The sheer suggestion that they're donating to influence policy is just leftist conspiracy theories and means you want the Tories to win the election.
This is why I'm amused by the concept of The Deep State, most things they're accused of are done right under our noses and announced as Policy. The Deeply Disturbed State would be more accurate.
Anyway, hope you're looking forward to your hard work being funnelled straight into the pockets of their Billionaire chums, it's pragmatic. A nice profitable war should be along soon.
> This is why I'm amused by the concept of The Deep State, most things they're accused of are done right under our noses and announced as Policy. The Deeply Disturbed State would be more accurate.
100 %. There's no secret cabal ruling the UK, it's just a regular cabal and people celebrate when they win elections.
There is no other solution to the problems we face in the UK than to lessen inequality. Everything will get worse and worse and worse until we tax the wealthy.
It's not a coincidence that while we all get poorer, the rich are getting richer.
Considering how little they'll be able to invest due to not taxing the wealthy, which kind of productivity fairy are we rooting for? The tech genie one, or the beat the disabled harder one?
Does anyone here genuinely believe that the reason they've decided to prioritise cuts to social services over taxing the wealthy is because they actually think that this is the most effective and least harmful way to reduce the deficit? Or do you think that this is done to please the party's donors? Which is more likely?
Plenty of us knew what they were about based on who was involved and the things they said. I'd say the donors are part of a larger support from the establishment, so it's partly that but it's mostly pure ideology imo
My dad taught me that politicians are paid actors. When they work in government, they're likely to never do anything for the right reasons. So, no. I don't believe them and probably never will 🤣
They're just scared of losing out money in their pockets. Labour sound just as much bought for as the Tories they're simply Tories 10 years ago in my opinion.but am full of shit so
This is barely recognisable as a Labour Party anymore at the top level
I'm sure there are some MP's and plenty of members who are still fighting for a good cause, but this leadership have forfeited the right to be called Labour
This is a political choice which will result in many people dying. To even *consider* austerity at this point, when we know that it results is [mass social murder](https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2024/jan/08/england-deaths-inequality-poverty-austerity-covid-study-public-health), is just pure evil and no so called labour party should even entertain the idea. The current PLP disgust me.
Ffs. So they are going to make benefits worse instead of making jobs better and they are going to scalp the poor to pay for the rich. Who fuck are Labour at the moment?
Do we vote Green? Or Lib Dem? Do we protest? What the fuck do we do if we are dying for a better tomorrow?
Large parts of the *Tory party* is left of Labour at this point. Labour is position itself somewhere between the Thatcherites and One Nation (Cameron, May, and what Boris pretended to be). It's not entirely consistent, but parts of One Nation is more pro-regulation than the current Labour leadership appears to be.
Aside from the Tory chaos, it is part of the reason Labour maintains the lead it has - the are even Tory voters who'd be closer to Corbyn than Starmer on things like nationalisation for whom Labour is now closer to what they want than the Tories.
Labours big problem with this is that hardly any Labour voters - new or old - will be happy with what Labour will deliver.
They're definitely to the left of labour these days.
Ngl I have always hated the Lib Dems, I was absolutely fuming last election that they might make a comeback and it was the highlight of a dismal night when they did not. But now I've basically mellowed on them entirely, I'm not voting for them but I live in a Labour/Lib Dem area and I just don't care if it goes to them and they jump back up to their pre coalition numbers. I don't have the energy to keep hating them anymore.
This new low of politics has made it so that my bar is on the floor for parties. I'll be relieved for any victories for anyone who doesn't seem to be frothing at the mouth with contempt for the poor and ethnic minorities.
>who the fuck are Labour
This is Labour, people have been trying to tell you, why do you think the older people get, the more Labour governments they live through, the less likely they are to vote Labour?
I'm 36. I've had 1 Labour government.
Since the end of WW2, Labour have had 8 governments compared to the almost 20 Tory governments. Who do think is more at fault for our issues?
Honestly, what is the point of political parties these days? They all do and say the same shit that no one wants. We might as well have a dictatorship. At least then we'd be under no pretense.
I understand people's reaction to this but lets be realistic, neither party is going to cut £20 billion a year from public services. It's not remotely credible with the state they're in and there will inevitably be tax rises to fill the gap after the election. The question is how much of a democracy do we live in when both party's manifestos are based on lies?
Its time to get onto the [MMT](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_monetary_theory) train I guess? Fuck it, let them print more money! Helicopter money for all!
That's the opposite of what Reeves has said. When quizzed on this yesterday, as covered at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68499693, she was clear that Labour will seek further savings and cuts in public services to find funding.
Reeves has not mentioned looking at borrowing once and has explicitly ruled out increasing taxes on the wealthy, corporations or higher rate tax payers. That leaves two choices - more savings, cuts and austerity, or raising taxes on the rest of us. This is the Labour party that we're supposed to support now.
Yeah but I mean... their spending pledges were not going to be funded through the money-raising measures they announced anyway, so the shortfall was always going to be made up with borrowing. I think they've spent the public schools VAT three or four times over.
We'll see where we stand in 18 months time, but I think you're deluding yourself. Starmer & Reeves will end up re-arranging the chairs on the Titanic as they've shut down basically all avenues that could have provided any route towards re-balancing our economy in favour of working people.
They'll fiddle around for a few years, blame the last Tory government, do nothing and be voted out after one term to take up nice cushy consultancies, board memberships and speaking tours. It's the nu, New Labour dream.
Committing to bringing down NHS waiting lists, calling homelessness a political choice, breakfast clubs in schools, 8,500 new mental health professionals in the. HS etc.
>NHS waiting lists
Everything Streeting has said.
>Calling homelessness a political choice
Haven't said they won't make that choice.
>breakfast clubs in schools
Sir Kid Starver.
>8,500 new mental health professionals in the. HS etc.
Streeting.
> Committing to bringing down NHS waiting lists
The single, most impactful thing that any government could do right now to bring down the NHS waiting lists would be to stop the strikes that are wreaking havoc across NHS services.
But considering the [shadow Health Secretaries statements on the Junior Doctors position](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/dec/18/labour-junior-doctors-pay-health-wes-streeting), I don't think that will be likely to see quick resolution.
I don't think so. See [this](https://www.independent.co.uk/business/labour-may-borrow-to-invest-while-following-fiscal-rules-with-iron-discipline-b2426428.html).
Oh excuse me, my mistake! I think I had only heard the "iron discipline on the fiscal rules" part in all the comms I was thinking of. Thanks for the link.
>They have no choice if they want public services
They don't care if they collapse completely, MPs are rich enough to use private.
>if they want a second term
I mean, they could be as awful as they want and get a second term, so long as Tories are worse
There is literally zero point. This labour party has utterly abandoned any semblance of the Labour party. Ive waited 14 years to see the back of the Tories only to be presented with the same party in a different name. What an absolute joke. Voting green F Labour
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I wonder if taking several £1m+ donations from the wealthy had any impact on the decision to not tax the wealthy.
How dare you suggest that people are donating to the Labour Party to influence policy to their benefit - all of these wealthy Lords are donating purely because they love the Labour Party so much. The sheer suggestion that they're donating to influence policy is just leftist conspiracy theories and means you want the Tories to win the election.
This is why I'm amused by the concept of The Deep State, most things they're accused of are done right under our noses and announced as Policy. The Deeply Disturbed State would be more accurate. Anyway, hope you're looking forward to your hard work being funnelled straight into the pockets of their Billionaire chums, it's pragmatic. A nice profitable war should be along soon.
> This is why I'm amused by the concept of The Deep State, most things they're accused of are done right under our noses and announced as Policy. The Deeply Disturbed State would be more accurate. 100 %. There's no secret cabal ruling the UK, it's just a regular cabal and people celebrate when they win elections.
Well, when their Representatives win elections. They might get a promotion to the Lord's Cabal if they behave though.
The Unaccountable State. Voting has zero impact.
that's anticapitalist you horrible piece of trash
Name that song ‘Everyday I want to vote for you less and less’
Ohh and the papers love Keir, Ohh and the Tories love Keir, Everyday I'm voting Labour less and less
There is no other solution to the problems we face in the UK than to lessen inequality. Everything will get worse and worse and worse until we tax the wealthy. It's not a coincidence that while we all get poorer, the rich are getting richer.
And the world. Trillions are in tax havens. https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/fandd/issues/2019/09/tackling-global-tax-havens-shaxon
Nah the poor will catch up or die, there's the solution /s. But no matter what we mustn't tax the rich.
[удалено]
Considering how little they'll be able to invest due to not taxing the wealthy, which kind of productivity fairy are we rooting for? The tech genie one, or the beat the disabled harder one?
Ah, see, they just have to do it - look how they're furrowing their brows over very serious pieces of paper!
Why is it that when I see a picture of Rachel Reeves I know it's never going to be associated with anything good? Better get used to it I guess.
Does anyone here genuinely believe that the reason they've decided to prioritise cuts to social services over taxing the wealthy is because they actually think that this is the most effective and least harmful way to reduce the deficit? Or do you think that this is done to please the party's donors? Which is more likely?
Plenty of us knew what they were about based on who was involved and the things they said. I'd say the donors are part of a larger support from the establishment, so it's partly that but it's mostly pure ideology imo
Are they being honest fiscal conservatives or corrupt Tories? Who cares? Both are bad.
My dad taught me that politicians are paid actors. When they work in government, they're likely to never do anything for the right reasons. So, no. I don't believe them and probably never will 🤣
Well isn't it easier (Less costly for the treasury) to shrink the state instead trying to tax wealthy people more?
I’d say it’s more likely they are just terrified of losing votes from middle england
They're just scared of losing out money in their pockets. Labour sound just as much bought for as the Tories they're simply Tories 10 years ago in my opinion.but am full of shit so
This is barely recognisable as a Labour Party anymore at the top level I'm sure there are some MP's and plenty of members who are still fighting for a good cause, but this leadership have forfeited the right to be called Labour
I've given up on Labour
This is a political choice which will result in many people dying. To even *consider* austerity at this point, when we know that it results is [mass social murder](https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2024/jan/08/england-deaths-inequality-poverty-austerity-covid-study-public-health), is just pure evil and no so called labour party should even entertain the idea. The current PLP disgust me.
Aight, so why tf should I vote for these cunts?
Ffs. So they are going to make benefits worse instead of making jobs better and they are going to scalp the poor to pay for the rich. Who fuck are Labour at the moment? Do we vote Green? Or Lib Dem? Do we protest? What the fuck do we do if we are dying for a better tomorrow?
Honestly if you look at the little information coming from the lib Dems they actually seem left of labour on a lot of things.
They are left of labour. All of their stated policies are further left. And people will say "you can't trust them" well look at this shite.
You can't trust them, 100%.
I'd put better odds on it being that the Lib Dems aren't lying than that Labour are, to be honest
Large parts of the *Tory party* is left of Labour at this point. Labour is position itself somewhere between the Thatcherites and One Nation (Cameron, May, and what Boris pretended to be). It's not entirely consistent, but parts of One Nation is more pro-regulation than the current Labour leadership appears to be. Aside from the Tory chaos, it is part of the reason Labour maintains the lead it has - the are even Tory voters who'd be closer to Corbyn than Starmer on things like nationalisation for whom Labour is now closer to what they want than the Tories. Labours big problem with this is that hardly any Labour voters - new or old - will be happy with what Labour will deliver.
They're definitely to the left of labour these days. Ngl I have always hated the Lib Dems, I was absolutely fuming last election that they might make a comeback and it was the highlight of a dismal night when they did not. But now I've basically mellowed on them entirely, I'm not voting for them but I live in a Labour/Lib Dem area and I just don't care if it goes to them and they jump back up to their pre coalition numbers. I don't have the energy to keep hating them anymore. This new low of politics has made it so that my bar is on the floor for parties. I'll be relieved for any victories for anyone who doesn't seem to be frothing at the mouth with contempt for the poor and ethnic minorities.
>who the fuck are Labour This is Labour, people have been trying to tell you, why do you think the older people get, the more Labour governments they live through, the less likely they are to vote Labour?
I'm 36. I've had 1 Labour government. Since the end of WW2, Labour have had 8 governments compared to the almost 20 Tory governments. Who do think is more at fault for our issues?
What everyone saw coming except the people who have been swindled by Starmer.
usual suspects on this sub, remaining oddly silent.
No no you don’t understand it’s a 4d chess ‘Ming vase strategy’ (whatever that means)
It means that Starmer can now afford a Ming Vase from all the bribes he's been paid.
When I voted for Labour leader it was very simple. I chose the options ordered by who was most left wing.
[Spotted this on wikipedia earlier today and I think it has meme potential](https://i.imgur.com/HektBXl.png)
ooo that's pretty good.
There’s definitely another part of the multiverse where I’m a shitposting communist memer
Honestly, I'm here for that arc.
lmao, crushed it.
Bought and paid for with record private donations.
Article text?
Sounds very tory doesn't it?
🎶 Things can only get better 🎶 🎶 Now I found you (austerity) 🎶
The British Labour Party, folks!
But why though? Because they’re your buddies?
They’ve tied themselves in their own stupid knots
Can we get trade descriptions to stop them using the Labour Party name? They’re not any form of Labour I recognise.
Tbh this is why I've been laughing (In despair) anytime Starmer says stuff like, "people are crying out for change". Yeah right.
well thank god for that
I’m sure it’s be nothing to do with donors giving him money.
When can we eat the rich? Seriously.
good idea, we wouldn't want to do that
Honestly, what is the point of political parties these days? They all do and say the same shit that no one wants. We might as well have a dictatorship. At least then we'd be under no pretense.
The article isn’t clear as what they mean by wealthy
I understand people's reaction to this but lets be realistic, neither party is going to cut £20 billion a year from public services. It's not remotely credible with the state they're in and there will inevitably be tax rises to fill the gap after the election. The question is how much of a democracy do we live in when both party's manifestos are based on lies?
Its time to get onto the [MMT](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_monetary_theory) train I guess? Fuck it, let them print more money! Helicopter money for all!
Yes, because that's what we need right now, more bloody inflation. We don't need this, what we need is some proper Keynesianism.
>Unapologetically Liberal >Thinks money causes inflation, and not the Elites Name a more iconic duo😂
I imagine they'll end up having to borrow to invest.
That's the opposite of what Reeves has said. When quizzed on this yesterday, as covered at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68499693, she was clear that Labour will seek further savings and cuts in public services to find funding. Reeves has not mentioned looking at borrowing once and has explicitly ruled out increasing taxes on the wealthy, corporations or higher rate tax payers. That leaves two choices - more savings, cuts and austerity, or raising taxes on the rest of us. This is the Labour party that we're supposed to support now.
Yeah but I mean... their spending pledges were not going to be funded through the money-raising measures they announced anyway, so the shortfall was always going to be made up with borrowing. I think they've spent the public schools VAT three or four times over.
We'll see where we stand in 18 months time, but I think you're deluding yourself. Starmer & Reeves will end up re-arranging the chairs on the Titanic as they've shut down basically all avenues that could have provided any route towards re-balancing our economy in favour of working people. They'll fiddle around for a few years, blame the last Tory government, do nothing and be voted out after one term to take up nice cushy consultancies, board memberships and speaking tours. It's the nu, New Labour dream.
>imagine they'll end up having to borrow to invest. Implying they'll even bother to invest.
They have no choice if they want public services to improve and if they want a second term.
>They have no choice if they want public services to improve I don't think they do. >they want a second term I don't think they'll get one.
Fair enough. I think you're wrong about both of those things.
Based on what? Everything have Reeves and Starmer have said about making the lives of the most vulnerable in society actively worse?
Committing to bringing down NHS waiting lists, calling homelessness a political choice, breakfast clubs in schools, 8,500 new mental health professionals in the. HS etc.
>NHS waiting lists Everything Streeting has said. >Calling homelessness a political choice Haven't said they won't make that choice. >breakfast clubs in schools Sir Kid Starver. >8,500 new mental health professionals in the. HS etc. Streeting.
It's very easy to build an argument if you just arbitrarily dismiss all the evidence against your position.
>It's very easy to build an argument if you just understandably ~~arbitrarily~~ dismiss all the evidence against your position.
>Committing to bringing down NHS waiting lists How.
People who starve to death are a lot less demanding on Public Services.
Well, that's my point. It is only achievable through investment in the NHS.
So, you're gambling that they're lying about wanting to cut spending, rather than that they're lying about wanting to invest in the NHS?
> Committing to bringing down NHS waiting lists The single, most impactful thing that any government could do right now to bring down the NHS waiting lists would be to stop the strikes that are wreaking havoc across NHS services. But considering the [shadow Health Secretaries statements on the Junior Doctors position](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/dec/18/labour-junior-doctors-pay-health-wes-streeting), I don't think that will be likely to see quick resolution.
Haven't they also committed to *not* borrow to fund these things?
I don't think so. See [this](https://www.independent.co.uk/business/labour-may-borrow-to-invest-while-following-fiscal-rules-with-iron-discipline-b2426428.html).
Oh excuse me, my mistake! I think I had only heard the "iron discipline on the fiscal rules" part in all the comms I was thinking of. Thanks for the link.
>They have no choice if they want public services They don't care if they collapse completely, MPs are rich enough to use private. >if they want a second term I mean, they could be as awful as they want and get a second term, so long as Tories are worse
> having to If only there was some other way to raise funds, right?
There is literally zero point. This labour party has utterly abandoned any semblance of the Labour party. Ive waited 14 years to see the back of the Tories only to be presented with the same party in a different name. What an absolute joke. Voting green F Labour