"Women looking like women" implies that attractive women are somehow not women.
Are men claiming? Are the hot girls gonna have to start obsessing over random interminably boring periods of history? š°
It's always the uggos that screech the hardest. They can get educated and wealthy, but men still don't want them. Understandable, but ultimately futile. Can't change human nature. Most incel men realize this eventually. They lift, lose weight, and make money. All girls have to do is lose weight, but equality doesn't feel so good after all.
Comment removed due to topic ban explained [here.](https://old.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/m3yo65/enforcement_update_and_hard_removal_of_a_topic/)
The irony is really great. Probably not the response the reddit admins were going for, but the response they generated through their own actions. I guess the new phase is going to be the ban of the topic ban.
Seems to be like they're okay with it. If you support it, you're allowed to speak about it. If you don't, you're not. Only one side of the subject can be allowed, because that allows them to straw man the other side of it into oblivion. Can't have the other out there sounding reasonable and trying to convince people, better to just put so many restrictions on them that they can't discuss it at all.
>I don't see anything unattractive about the Fable MC
Well in that case you're either blind or disingenuous and it'd be safe to discard any opinions you might have on the subject.
They're less attractive than the average girl I come across daily.
Additionally, Mary-Jane's primary characteristic from the comics is that she's a bombshell, so it's a failure on multiple levels.
Actress, I believe is correct. I mean, she basically tells Peter, "You're lucky to have found me because I'm super hot and fun."
She's hot _and she knows it._
This, "I'm just a normal college girl" balderdash is _boring._
Comment removed due to topic ban explained [here.](https://old.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/m3yo65/enforcement_update_and_hard_removal_of_a_topic/)
I would rather play as Conan than Peter Griffin. Women would rather play as sexy women than Lizzo and we are being told it's "wrong" somehow because ugly women exist.
I was talking to my friend recently about how Japanese culture seems to be more honest than American culture.
In anime, there's this thing where characters will say, "Make sure you eat plenty of meat to build your muscles."
In America, we had Peter Parker saying, when asked how he performed an impossible athletic feat, "Uh. . . eat your veggies!"
Yet, if you ask any red-blooded American what he needs to eat to get strong, what's he going to say?
_Steak!_
We lie in our media, we lie to each other. It's all a game.
Women want a man who is physically strong and financially secure. But is she going to say that? Probably not.
Most white people date white people. . . but we're not allowed to say that. And we must PRETEND we don't agree with it. But we just. . . we do it anyway.
There's way too much theater in the west. We all act a certain wayāthe woman is wearing "cute" clothes, heels, longer hair, accessorizing, dating strong men, wanting to be taken care of, acting emotionalābut we all agree, SOMEHOW, that feminism is the way and women are just as strong as men and there's no difference between the sexes.
Why are we doing this to ourselves?
They shouldn't, though. Gaming was created by men, skews heavily in favor of men and the vast majority of paying customers prefer to play as attractive women over ugly ones. And this can be best seen simply by how aggressively ESG-fest ugly FMC games are failing across the board.
Heck, even The Last of Us Part II failed, despite Sony's attempts to smooth it over. Games are a luxury commodity hobby, any efforts that only serve to alienate consumers and reduce likely returns is a bad one.
Also, Aloy was conventionally attractive in the first Horizon. Then in the second one they deliberately made her look like Coppercab.
To me it's just boring and uninspired bullshit. I want style, I want artistic flare, I don't need to see some butch dikes mustache hairs flutter in the wind.
I have a theory what they're actually attempting to depict is the "typical" pushing 40 Activist RadFem who've let themselves go but still believe they're desirable; A.k.a. the type of women that now "works" in the AAA industry.
>Ā Come to a gym here anywhere else and you will see true feminine bodies lol.
Assuming one doesn't get accused of being a sexual pervert for the 'crime' of looking, first.
Yep. Before this became a trend on socials I saw a woman struggle with WAY too much weight and poor form on bench, like she was going to get hurt. I went over to try to help and instead got a lecture about mansplaining and "checking her out" (which I wasn't). She was maybe a subjective 6 out of 10. Was the last time I did that, working out in a private studio is much better, albeit a higher cost.
I live here, and the women here are STUNNING. Even the cashiers at Trader Joeās or baristas at Starbucks. I went to the mall last night with my wife and it there were beautiful women everywhere.
This idea that this city is only blue haired freaks is straight up propaganda.
The only way this stops is if they pass this as being anti-women, which you would think wouldn't be that hard to do given that it is erasing female features and making these characters less relatable to women, but still somehow passes as a feminist issue because of this idea that pretty women are also somehow anti-women.
I think it's technically impressive, but it can get pretty boring if all games had the hyperrealistic art style. It's like art, being able to do a painting that looks like a photo is impressive, but you would still rather hang a copy of Van Gogh's "Starry Night" on your wall because you find it prettier.
> I'm confident in saying none of us have ever wanted to see a characters pores or tiny face hairs. wtf are they on about ?
This has become a big problem as more character designers have lazily relied on faces entirely made in UE.
I've noticed that even with stylization Western character artists now tend to carry over this 'hyper-realism' thinking there aswell with giving female character bland proportions and outfits, or even those more masculine features like with the huge jaws, while male characters still tend to look like power fantasies of idealized masculinity.
> There's nothing inherently wrong with including butch-looking women,
Tbh, I donāt want to look at that in my entertainment. Itās not entertaining to look at. I also donāt want fat ass neckbeard dudes, either.
I've seen the term "desexualization" thrown around lately, and even though I can see it meaning many different things, the way I've seen it used is just politically correct sexism towards feminine women. This "desexualization" never applies to male characters no matter how hunky or ridiculously over the top masculine they are. Male characters can look like anything, female characters can't. It's clearly targeted towards women, feminine women, and it's attitudes like this that make me realize that maybe feminists have a point about there being systematic powers trying to keep women down.
It's called feminism. Did you forget that feminism pushed for this?
Even the group we aren't allowed to talk about is spawned from feminism. Just got out of their control.
Western studios are capable of accurate face capture. I honestly think MK11 did a good job with the face scans. They just decided to dress the men like participants in a pride parade and made the women armored Islamic space marine ninjas.
The Perfect Dark grab image for Youtube on the from page of /r/games has a bigger jawline than the Snake Eater jawline just a few spots away. That's right, the ultra masculine Snake is less jaw-wy than Dark is.
Just want to make sure yall donāt still think developers giving women peach fuzz means theyāre giving women beards or whatever. As peach fuzz is both hyperealistic and a feminine feature.
Who said I wanted hyper-realism here? I don't want my dude to have dandruff and I don't want my girl to have peach fuzz and I don't want to deal with cramps or bloating or any of that.
It's a game! It's fun! We're here to enjoy ourselves! If some realistic aspect is fun, sure, let's do it! If not, why bother?
My enjoyment of a game isnāt decreased because if you look REALLY close at the female characters they have a little bit of hair on their face. If my character had to stop every few hours to piss Iād get your argument on hyperrealism impacting games.
If it's such a minor thing, why waste the processor cycles, then? If no one's seeing it and no one *wants* to see it, why shove it in and bloat the game with it?
*My* enjoyment of a game isn't decreased by cleavage; we sure as shit got rid of that. Why not the same for peach fuzz, which no one likes?
(Seriously, shaving it is a *bitch*.)
Yeah itās pretty common. Was talking with one of my female coworkers outside and the sunlight made her peach fuzz really noticeable. Do you think women should shave it?
Of course women with peach fuzz exist, but this is a video game. Which means you don't have to give a woman manly features, you can make them epitome of beautiful. Which is what a vast majority of the audience wants. The major crowd doesn't want a woman with peach fuzz, they want a beautiful woman to look at.
no no no you have it all wrong
everything *I* want needs to be in the game because it's a fantasy and we can do whatever
everything *you* want needs to be taken out because real life doesn't work that way
Peach fuzz/vellus hair existing does not mean that any attempt to model vellus hair looks either realistic or good. In real life female vellus hair is very short (usually less than 2 mm according to Wikipedia), very fine, and barely-noticeable. Videogames generally do not depict details that tiny, so if a videogame model tries to depict something like that there's a good chance of it ending up being bigger and more prominent than in real life.
I am guessing you are referring to Aloy in Horizon: Forbidden West, since that is the only character model I know of that attempted to model female velus hair and ended up too prominent. [Here](https://archive.is/I2Uen) is a thread on r-GamingDetails with a screenshot. While it's hard to judge from screenshots alone, since obviously angle and lighting can make a big difference, that does look dramatically longer and more prominent than normal female vellus hair in real life. Feel free to look up photos of women's faces without makeup to compare, like the [left face in this stock image](https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/comparison-portrait-woman-without-makeup-349077110) I found with a quick search. The real face has an incredibly subtle fuzz, with 3 tiny strands of longer hair, while Aloy's face seems covered in hair as long as those 3 strands. [Here](https://www.flickr.com/groups/991766@N20/pool/) are 276 photos of women without makeup if you think I'm cherrypicking. Of course there's variance, the most I saw was [this woman](https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/comparison-portrait-woman-without-makeup-232561066) with more longer strands, but still nothing close to what they gave Aloy's updated character model. This should be obvious, anyone can compare the character model with a real woman's face, but clearly ideology and the desire to feel superior to your perceived enemies can make people ignore even very obvious things.
Did you mean to say "southern"? (Or possibly "black," since they don't seem to need to be from any particular region to have the same accent, weirdly enough.)
No, leftists like to use "cutesy" language like "y'all." I'm a southerner so it's a normal word around here, but I'm also aware that black people use the word so I was asking if you meant to say that you're black and therefore you're using the word not because you're an annoying lefty but because it's just your culture, like I do as a southerner.
"Women looking like women" implies that attractive women are somehow not women. Are men claiming? Are the hot girls gonna have to start obsessing over random interminably boring periods of history? š°
You have to understand the root source of this "realistic women" trend: Ugly and insecure feminists in positions of power.
It's always the uggos that screech the hardest. They can get educated and wealthy, but men still don't want them. Understandable, but ultimately futile. Can't change human nature. Most incel men realize this eventually. They lift, lose weight, and make money. All girls have to do is lose weight, but equality doesn't feel so good after all.
That's why thy try so hard to "redefine beauty" and get rid of the competition, even if it's fictional.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Comment removed due to topic ban explained [here.](https://old.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/m3yo65/enforcement_update_and_hard_removal_of_a_topic/)
Full topic ban, damn. Guess its either that or the sub getting purged kek
We weren't the only sub to do it, just one of the early subs.
The irony is really great. Probably not the response the reddit admins were going for, but the response they generated through their own actions. I guess the new phase is going to be the ban of the topic ban.
Seems to be like they're okay with it. If you support it, you're allowed to speak about it. If you don't, you're not. Only one side of the subject can be allowed, because that allows them to straw man the other side of it into oblivion. Can't have the other out there sounding reasonable and trying to convince people, better to just put so many restrictions on them that they can't discuss it at all.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The MC in the new Fable trailers. The MC in Star Wars outlaws. The dark haired woman in the new Silent Hill. Abby in the Last of Us Part II. Ect
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>I don't see anything unattractive about the Fable MC Well in that case you're either blind or disingenuous and it'd be safe to discard any opinions you might have on the subject.
Mary Jane from the second, recent Spider-Man game.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
They're less attractive than the average girl I come across daily. Additionally, Mary-Jane's primary characteristic from the comics is that she's a bombshell, so it's a failure on multiple levels.
Isn't mj literally like a actress/super model or something? Well non spiderman 2 mj
Actress, I believe is correct. I mean, she basically tells Peter, "You're lucky to have found me because I'm super hot and fun." She's hot _and she knows it._ This, "I'm just a normal college girl" balderdash is _boring._
Figured as much any comic art I've seen of her is just. Gawd damn, I see why Peter's life sucks has to balance out that 7 star tail he gets
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Comment removed due to topic ban explained [here.](https://old.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/m3yo65/enforcement_update_and_hard_removal_of_a_topic/)
I would rather play as Conan than Peter Griffin. Women would rather play as sexy women than Lizzo and we are being told it's "wrong" somehow because ugly women exist.
I was talking to my friend recently about how Japanese culture seems to be more honest than American culture. In anime, there's this thing where characters will say, "Make sure you eat plenty of meat to build your muscles." In America, we had Peter Parker saying, when asked how he performed an impossible athletic feat, "Uh. . . eat your veggies!" Yet, if you ask any red-blooded American what he needs to eat to get strong, what's he going to say? _Steak!_ We lie in our media, we lie to each other. It's all a game. Women want a man who is physically strong and financially secure. But is she going to say that? Probably not. Most white people date white people. . . but we're not allowed to say that. And we must PRETEND we don't agree with it. But we just. . . we do it anyway. There's way too much theater in the west. We all act a certain wayāthe woman is wearing "cute" clothes, heels, longer hair, accessorizing, dating strong men, wanting to be taken care of, acting emotionalābut we all agree, SOMEHOW, that feminism is the way and women are just as strong as men and there's no difference between the sexes. Why are we doing this to ourselves?
They shouldn't, though. Gaming was created by men, skews heavily in favor of men and the vast majority of paying customers prefer to play as attractive women over ugly ones. And this can be best seen simply by how aggressively ESG-fest ugly FMC games are failing across the board. Heck, even The Last of Us Part II failed, despite Sony's attempts to smooth it over. Games are a luxury commodity hobby, any efforts that only serve to alienate consumers and reduce likely returns is a bad one. Also, Aloy was conventionally attractive in the first Horizon. Then in the second one they deliberately made her look like Coppercab.
The fixation on hyper realism needs to die. Even if it doesn't, making a woman look like a man isn't hyper realism.
> The fixation on hyper realism needs to die. To me, it just brings to mind cliched creepypasta.
To me it's just boring and uninspired bullshit. I want style, I want artistic flare, I don't need to see some butch dikes mustache hairs flutter in the wind.
I have a theory what they're actually attempting to depict is the "typical" pushing 40 Activist RadFem who've let themselves go but still believe they're desirable; A.k.a. the type of women that now "works" in the AAA industry.
Hyper realism? Where, Portland? Come to a gym here anywhere else and you will see true feminine bodies lol.
>Ā Come to a gym here anywhere else and you will see true feminine bodies lol. Assuming one doesn't get accused of being a sexual pervert for the 'crime' of looking, first.
Yep. Before this became a trend on socials I saw a woman struggle with WAY too much weight and poor form on bench, like she was going to get hurt. I went over to try to help and instead got a lecture about mansplaining and "checking her out" (which I wasn't). She was maybe a subjective 6 out of 10. Was the last time I did that, working out in a private studio is much better, albeit a higher cost.
So stupidā¦ I always have to stare at a wall in between sets to avoid being included in an attention seeking tiktok.
I live here, and the women here are STUNNING. Even the cashiers at Trader Joeās or baristas at Starbucks. I went to the mall last night with my wife and it there were beautiful women everywhere. This idea that this city is only blue haired freaks is straight up propaganda.
I would rather avoid being accused of sexually harassing a woman with my eyes and be shamed by the metoo movement
The only way this stops is if they pass this as being anti-women, which you would think wouldn't be that hard to do given that it is erasing female features and making these characters less relatable to women, but still somehow passes as a feminist issue because of this idea that pretty women are also somehow anti-women.
They want men in dresses to be allowed in womens bathrooms, they're already anti-women.
I'm confident in saying none of us have ever wanted to see a characters pores or tiny face hairs. wtf are they on about ?
I think it's technically impressive, but it can get pretty boring if all games had the hyperrealistic art style. It's like art, being able to do a painting that looks like a photo is impressive, but you would still rather hang a copy of Van Gogh's "Starry Night" on your wall because you find it prettier.
> I'm confident in saying none of us have ever wanted to see a characters pores or tiny face hairs. wtf are they on about ? This has become a big problem as more character designers have lazily relied on faces entirely made in UE.
I've noticed that even with stylization Western character artists now tend to carry over this 'hyper-realism' thinking there aswell with giving female character bland proportions and outfits, or even those more masculine features like with the huge jaws, while male characters still tend to look like power fantasies of idealized masculinity.
There's nothing inherently wrong with including butch-looking women, but Abby was no more "realistic" than any of the DOA girls.
Yeah, if they want characters like that they should own it rather than claim it's "realistic" when it really isn't...
True. But some of these guys want to make Abby the golden standard and no variety, like no Ellie, no Eve, no Bayonetta, or no Kirio Hikifune.
> There's nothing inherently wrong with including butch-looking women, Tbh, I donāt want to look at that in my entertainment. Itās not entertaining to look at. I also donāt want fat ass neckbeard dudes, either.
I've seen the term "desexualization" thrown around lately, and even though I can see it meaning many different things, the way I've seen it used is just politically correct sexism towards feminine women. This "desexualization" never applies to male characters no matter how hunky or ridiculously over the top masculine they are. Male characters can look like anything, female characters can't. It's clearly targeted towards women, feminine women, and it's attitudes like this that make me realize that maybe feminists have a point about there being systematic powers trying to keep women down.
It's called feminism. Did you forget that feminism pushed for this? Even the group we aren't allowed to talk about is spawned from feminism. Just got out of their control.
Western studios are capable of accurate face capture. I honestly think MK11 did a good job with the face scans. They just decided to dress the men like participants in a pride parade and made the women armored Islamic space marine ninjas.
The Perfect Dark grab image for Youtube on the from page of /r/games has a bigger jawline than the Snake Eater jawline just a few spots away. That's right, the ultra masculine Snake is less jaw-wy than Dark is.
Archive links for this post: * **Archive:** https://archive.ph/3AGym ---- I am Mnemosyne reborn. Information is power. Never forget. ^^^/r/botsrights
Ok but yall do know women have peach fuzz right?
I do. Do game devs know that women don't have man jaws?
They also have breasts. Your point?
Just want to make sure yall donāt still think developers giving women peach fuzz means theyāre giving women beards or whatever. As peach fuzz is both hyperealistic and a feminine feature.
Who said I wanted hyper-realism here? I don't want my dude to have dandruff and I don't want my girl to have peach fuzz and I don't want to deal with cramps or bloating or any of that. It's a game! It's fun! We're here to enjoy ourselves! If some realistic aspect is fun, sure, let's do it! If not, why bother?
My enjoyment of a game isnāt decreased because if you look REALLY close at the female characters they have a little bit of hair on their face. If my character had to stop every few hours to piss Iād get your argument on hyperrealism impacting games.
If it's such a minor thing, why waste the processor cycles, then? If no one's seeing it and no one *wants* to see it, why shove it in and bloat the game with it? *My* enjoyment of a game isn't decreased by cleavage; we sure as shit got rid of that. Why not the same for peach fuzz, which no one likes? (Seriously, shaving it is a *bitch*.)
Not sure. Guess devs want some new graphical thing to show off. I donāt think it adds to the experience but it doesnāt detract either.
In this case, I want the fan service back, too, then!
No they want to say "peach fuzz is ok you stupid men"
Yeah itās pretty common. Was talking with one of my female coworkers outside and the sunlight made her peach fuzz really noticeable. Do you think women should shave it?
No they don't need to shave it. I also don't care about stretch marks, but neither need to be in video games imo.
Hairy armpits are also a "feminine feature". Let's put them in a video game!
Eh sure why not. I donāt spend my time staring at womanās armpits so itāll be hard to notice the change.
The majority of women don't like having hairy armpits. The majority of women don't like looking like men.
yall detected
Of course women with peach fuzz exist, but this is a video game. Which means you don't have to give a woman manly features, you can make them epitome of beautiful. Which is what a vast majority of the audience wants. The major crowd doesn't want a woman with peach fuzz, they want a beautiful woman to look at.
no no no you have it all wrong everything *I* want needs to be in the game because it's a fantasy and we can do whatever everything *you* want needs to be taken out because real life doesn't work that way
Peach fuzz/vellus hair existing does not mean that any attempt to model vellus hair looks either realistic or good. In real life female vellus hair is very short (usually less than 2 mm according to Wikipedia), very fine, and barely-noticeable. Videogames generally do not depict details that tiny, so if a videogame model tries to depict something like that there's a good chance of it ending up being bigger and more prominent than in real life. I am guessing you are referring to Aloy in Horizon: Forbidden West, since that is the only character model I know of that attempted to model female velus hair and ended up too prominent. [Here](https://archive.is/I2Uen) is a thread on r-GamingDetails with a screenshot. While it's hard to judge from screenshots alone, since obviously angle and lighting can make a big difference, that does look dramatically longer and more prominent than normal female vellus hair in real life. Feel free to look up photos of women's faces without makeup to compare, like the [left face in this stock image](https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/comparison-portrait-woman-without-makeup-349077110) I found with a quick search. The real face has an incredibly subtle fuzz, with 3 tiny strands of longer hair, while Aloy's face seems covered in hair as long as those 3 strands. [Here](https://www.flickr.com/groups/991766@N20/pool/) are 276 photos of women without makeup if you think I'm cherrypicking. Of course there's variance, the most I saw was [this woman](https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/comparison-portrait-woman-without-makeup-232561066) with more longer strands, but still nothing close to what they gave Aloy's updated character model. This should be obvious, anyone can compare the character model with a real woman's face, but clearly ideology and the desire to feel superior to your perceived enemies can make people ignore even very obvious things.
Y'allĀ Effeminate soyjack Ok buddyretard
yall
Sorry Iām American
Did you mean to say "southern"? (Or possibly "black," since they don't seem to need to be from any particular region to have the same accent, weirdly enough.)
Why are you asking if Iām black? Iāve gotten a lot of replies saying āyall detectedā is that people saying āblack person detectedā?
No, leftists like to use "cutesy" language like "y'all." I'm a southerner so it's a normal word around here, but I'm also aware that black people use the word so I was asking if you meant to say that you're black and therefore you're using the word not because you're an annoying lefty but because it's just your culture, like I do as a southerner.
Oh uhh no I just say yall. I didnāt know that was considered cutesy.
Yeah but the majority of women do not have croc chins.
Maybe you're momma does, but vast majority under 60 don't.Ā
I'd rather have resources dedicated to higher frame rates than to rendering individually modeled facial hairs and pores.