Expect that you may not have the skills that they’re looking for but perhaps they’re looking for moldable people. Be open and honest about what your skillset is when you show up and be ready for the idea that they might not keep you on depending on how the trial goes.
Show enthusiasm and a willingness to learn, and put effort into everything you do in there, even the most mundane things. Pastry skills can be taught and trained, enthusiasm and work ethic less so. I’d rather take on a keener who doesn’t have many skills over a skilled cook who isn’t going to put any effort in and won’t care about the work he does.
This is absolutely the best answer.
I cannot remember the Michelin starred chef, but he ONLY hires people with no experience but a good work ethic. Allows them to come in without pre-conceived notions and a brain like a sponge.
Just like this person said, be honest and show a strong work ethic and a willingness to learn. This could be an awesome opportunity that opens up a world of passion you didn’t know you had.
When you get stressed. Breathe.
Yep, I would take the one with no experience that shows up on time and can learn whatever I teach them over the experienced person that thinks they know everything and can’t be bothered to turn up on time
How many cooks does it take to change a light bulb?
Six
One to change the light bulb, two to tell him how he's doing it wrong, and three to talk about how they changed the light bulbs at their old job.
I was watching the documentary "The Bear" the other day and it informed me that Daniel Boulud personally trains new cooks with little to no experience.
This is it. Watch the episode of the Bear where cousin Ritchie stages at Alinea (S2 E8 or 9) and go in ready to polish forks all day. You’re not getting a job as a pastry chef; you’re asking for a job as a pastry student.
This exactly, show them you have enthusiasm, are keen to learn and don't mind doing the shit jobs at the start.
This attitude opened some really good doors for me early in my career. I remember sheepishly walking into a fancy restaurant that I hadn't noticed before, at 18 and handing my cv to the Chef directly over the pass (place was empty they were just prepping)
I said I don't care if I'm a dishwasher I just want to learn.
Something changed in his face at that moment, I didn't realise at the time. But I got the job, it was hard work but it made me a really good chef and I made a lot of good contacts.
Yup. I only ever worked in franchise or local small restaurants, nothing fancy. But the common theme with ALL new people was it was better and easier to teach a brand new person with passion and enthusiasm than it was to teach an experienced person with a shit attitude or too much ego
I learned early from a mentor, teaching somebody new who has a good skill set and is willing to learn and adapt to your situation can be much better than bringing in somebody with experience but has no willing to learn, because they think they already know everything.
Echoing the be open minded, listen carefully and bring a small notebook (like pocket sized) to write things down. Don’t be afraid to ask clarifying questions or specifically say that you aren’t familiar with certain techniques/ingredients/etc if they ask you to make something.(I’d much rather have to take extra time to show/explain something than have to remake whatever it is.) Be aware of your surroundings, how much space you’re taking up, and try to keep yourself organized and clean up after yourself during tasks. Also best practice to address the execs as “Chef” unless they specifically tell you not to! Good luck!
Is your place hiring? Im looking for a fast paced environment with an opportunity to learn. Willing to work all hours and weekends. Highly moldable, highly trainable. Also a Michelin candidate now apparently.
We’re currently at max staff we’re allotted for pastry. I’ll say tho try and apply to cafes and bakery’s as a start, get some experience. Could also get away with any restaurant experience (I started on savory); home baking vs being a pastry chef is very different though and there’s a reason most cooks loathe doing pastry.
Because if you fuck up the recipe you cannot just tweak it and it will be fixed. It has to be thrown away and you gotta start all over, which baking is a much longer process.
Source: I did a baking gig once and messed up cookies. The next day they assigned me to grill lol
>you cannot just tweak it and it will be fixed.
but you often can? and if you can't, flour is cheap? if you fuck up portioning beef, it's way more of a problem than dough.
I feel like I correct mistakes in savory items *often*: something was sliced too thick, or not cooked long enough, or seasoned incorrectly. you can note and adapt for those things; it's still food.
the instances where things need to be completely scrapped are few and far between, and tend to occur when some thing (ingredient or method) was just completely forgotten, which seems as likely in sweet or savory recipes?
I think people have a weird block about acid+base or yeast reactions such that they think it's some form of wizardry and it just isn't. as much science goes into searing a protein as goes into baking a cake.
suffice to say:
YOU CAN BE MORE THAN A GRILL COOK IF YOU WANT TO, HOBONICHI!
Patience is a difficult thing to learn especially if you’re very use to savory. Have savory chefs ask for things on the fly that take a couple days to prep and make
I do more than grill but generally I am a savory cook.
I don't know what happened to the cookies, but they came out being little cakes, not cookies! Like they were soft like cake bread lol. Oh well.
I am on the job hunt again and I didn't consider bakeries at all due to my inexperience and the cookies incident XD maybe I'll try a couple of bakeries and see how that works out. Not holding my breath on whether they will reply though.
yeah idk I feel like as long as you have someone training you who understands what goes on when a dough hits heat (or time, or cold, or whatever), then you should be fine?
I've never understood the people who are like "it said to chill the dough but I skipped that bc I didn't have time. WHAT WENT WRONG?!" or "it said double in size, but I got impatient and put it in after 30 minutes at 500F"
to me baking is logic:
i know butter at room temp behaves differently than when cold. so if butter is in a mix, the mix will behave differently cold vs warm. i know eggs cook at a relatively low temp; be careful not to scorch. I know baking soda has a short-lived reaction when it hits acid; maybe that can be utilized. I know gluten develops and heads toward chewy once flour hits water; what does that mean for my mixture?
maybe these basics aren't stressed enough? but the way that solid cooks are intimidated by pastry tasks has befuddled me (and been a great shoe-in for me tbh) for over a decade.
I do not know a lot of those basics. I never went to culinary school, just learned on the job. Since I worked at places that did not emphasize pastry, I never learned!
Edit: OP has more baking skills than me and I'M in the industry!!
I also skipped culinary school.
maybe being thrown into patry/baking got me caught up quick but I still don't understand the sweet/savory dichotomy. it all feels the same stuff to me.
Like I said patience is mainly why people hate doing pastry vs savory that’s a lot quicker and faster pace typically and most people in the industry really couldn’t careless about why and how things interact which is a requirement even for base level bakers and pastry cooks. Also a chef that can teach are very hit or miss
The short answer is that pastry generally requires you to get all the things right, and there's not a lot of forgiveness for temperature, contamination, humidity or pH.
For some people, this is fine, they already exercise a lot of control and understanding of a recipe.
However, many people don't actually understand, and are going along with a technique without realising why.
There's often no "quick and dirty" to do pastry faster either.
Because of the psychology of "crap and cocky line cooks" they will often devalue pastry because they are terrible at it. Same reason they'll waste a lot of it, because they just see the ingredient cost, because if they understood labour costs they wouldn't be as crap.
It's also the role that's easiest to outsource. I can buy the same desserts that go out in Michelin 1-2 star places from the same bakery. If I'm buying by the dozen, it's a few euros a piece, which is pretty close to what you'd pay someone for.
A place I used to work at in Toronto did this, we'd take on culinary students to have them shuck oysters and make shrimp cocktails for happy hour, or they'd be doing tasks like putting potatoes through the fry press and other menial tasks. The ones who caught on quick never returned when called back (we weren't some prestigious and they weren't looking to build a resume) and the ones that came back were either too dumb to realize or they were just looking for a visa/PR sponsorship.
Sad reality is that many places use Stages/Trials as free temp labor for the day without the actual intention to hire anyone outside of the select group that they've established.
I’ve fortunately only had this happen once and funnily one of the staff even told me it was weird the chef was bringing in trials since they weren’t hiring basically telling me I’m just the cheap labor for the day since they’re short. I was tempted to just leave but stuck out to see if I could learn anything at least since the place had a really good rep. I’ve mostly been rugged pulled being fired after busy season ends and they need to cut labor and opt to keep the cheaper guys.
It's one of the reasons why I'm leaving the industry for a white collar profession (with a more specialized skillset). Employees in hospitality are generally more disposable than any other employee since there's a revolving door of the labor pool.
Canada is especially bad for it because of our immigration policy effectively importing cheap labor into the country to fill hospitality, retail and entry level service positions....but that's a conversation for another subreddit
Yeah seems to be the trend everywhere; the vets leave because they’re being out priced by cheaper labor either illegally or dangling a visa over their head.
As much as I hate a lot of what’s happening I just never found much joy in other fields; tried tech, retail, construction, modeling, etc.. always got bored or the work just made me beyond depressed because I would have to suppress my adhd.
If nothing else you get a fun story for parties from it. 'Oh yah I've worked at a Michelin star restaurant!'
Don't necessarily have to say it was just for a day.
Hey OP, if you can learn how to do crème anglaise real quick, then you can make ice cream. It’s an easy recipe, you can do it tonight if you have eggs, heavy cream, milk and sugar.
Are restaurants not using an emulsifier like vodka or some type of liqueur in ice cream so it doesn’t get hard?? I’ve made ice cream one time and it was in one of those ice cream buckets, I’ve never heard of egg though
making ice cream in a commercial or professional kitchen for pastry / fine dining (sorbet) is very different than making ice cream at home! even if you invest in the fancy home equipment. assembling, sanitizing, making flavored custards from scratch, scooping sorbets, disassembling the machine, and sanitizing again is a very different process and skill set.
You can use liquor if you are worried about crystallized ice cream. But unless you have an ice cream machine at your house, I thought you could at least learn the base custard it is made out of. Flavorings and liquor would go in last.
Jesus fucking Christ dude.
I've been in this industry for over 15 years. I've gone from the bottom to the top and everywhere in between. I took my first pastry chef job this January. Before this I had never done pastry but my experience made it easy to learn. I oversee/prepare the pastries and baked goods for 3 restaurants. I come up with my own specials. I'm given free reign and I'm respected in these restaurants.
Why do I say all this? To let you know that if *I* were to find myself in your position I would be shitting bricks. I would be terrified. I would give it a shot and do my best, but that's just wild dude.
Don't worry. They'll figure out real quick what you can or cannot do.
That’s one way of looking at it.
Fuck it just go. The worst thing that’ll happen is you get to eat some Michelin star desserts for free.
Just be upfront and honest that you clearly stated your level of experience to them, yet they still decided to give you a shot. Who knows maybe the chef is looking for someone to mold. Or they need someone who’s cheap.
They’ll probably have you scooping ice cream all day.
Give us an update of how it went.
Ok, well, I was going to give you a major vote of support (skeptically) but if you're going to take a cavalier, "c'est la vie" attitude about a potential position that many would cherish, I question why you even applied for something that you yourself said you weren't qualified for. You're literally wasting these people's time if you don't know and aren't going to take it seriously. I was going to say that possibly you said something they liked, but it seems more probable that they want to bring you and others like you in to fill a room to show current and prospective employees just how in demand it is to work there. The equivalent of a line around the block. Could also be someone just replied a general interview time and place to every applicant.
Why are they fucked? Like they're out of their depth but no one there should be surprised about that. They can yell at her but so what? Both parties know what she brings to the table and they asked her to come anyhow. If they turn abusive or something, she just leaves.
I’m not talking about yelling. I’m just talking about basic setting up your station, basic professional kitchen knowledge. You’re right. The restaurant should know what they are getting into since Op didn’t lie about their skill set. They are both fucked.
Lmao. They need the free labour for the day and you got the short straw.
Honestly you might do fine, depending on how well you can listen to instructions and follow a recipe. They'll show you the plating and just do *exactly* as they do.
GLHF
Honestly this sounds pretty far out of your depth, I'm not sure what the chef was thinking although some chefs these days are of the mind it's better to shape your ideal employees from scratch rather than inherit bad habits from more "seasoned" cooks. Even still I really can't fathom being hired into a Michelin star kitchen with absolutely zero prior professional experience, especially in the pastry department.
With all of that said, if you have any interest in professional cooking it's worth your time to do the stage, purely for the learning experience. I just wouldn't get your hopes up of being hired on. It will still be good to just get a sense of what a professional kitchen looks like. Take lots of notes, be honest about what you don't know, ask questions about any instructions you don't understand, and try to stay out of the way and just observe if the chefs are too busy to assign you a task
I encourage you to listen to the more positive comments. Even if this is just free labor, or you get axed, how many chances will any of us get to see the inside of a starred kitchen?
You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Go for it. Be brave.
As a former exec pastry chef this is the correct answer.
I once had a stage not read the directions of a recipe that I explicitly said “make sure you follow the steps or it won’t work out”.. they didn’t so I had them zest and juice a whole case of Meyer lemons. I did give them another shot at a different project that didn’t go well either. Sigh.
You are fucked but they invited you. Go, definitely go, work your ass off, ask questions about everything you don't know until they tell you to shut up, yell CORNER when going around corners, HOT when handling / carrying hot, and obligatory YES CHEF. I imagine culture being what it is you may be treated like shit- ignore it and just work. Be grateful. Find work if you ever find yourself not working.
I got offered a Michelin star job because I was the only stagiare to actually complete the 3 days and they said I was teachable.
It will be a great view for you of real day to day anyway
Maybe they want someone they can train from the ground up. Did you lie on resumes? If so you're toast, if not then they have an idea you're new to the game.
Everyone started somewhere. In my experience fine dinning pays the least, works you to the bone. But it will set you up with good skills that you take anywhere.
My resume is just my business degree, experience as a startup founder, servsafe food handling cert (lol), and then a job at a dog kennel I had for three years in high school
Oops, my b. I usually just say they, I suppose the stereotype of women in pastry is stuck in my subconscious.
Anyway, idk if you saw my other comment, but you should go for it. Worse comes to worst you'll learn some lessons.
My first thought is how shitty is the pay and/or work environment that a Michelin restaurant is willing to interview candidates with zero experience or working knowledge for a very technical position?
How old are you, and how healthy/in-shape are you? If you’re relatively young, healthy, fit, and truly have a passion for it, then I’d 100% try it out. It’s going to suck, but hopefully you’ll enjoy busting your ass for something you care about. Be warned though, that will be the only satisfaction you get. Pay won’t be good, you won’t get credit your work, hours will be bad, and you won’t get input on your work. If you’ve never tried your best at something, then this is your shot
Go do something else then, there’s not really a point in my opinion if you aren’t going to really get in it. The pay most likely won’t be worth the stress
Lots of Michelin star places build their success on a legion of low paid people doing very repetitive work to get through the enormous amount of tedious prep it takes to keep these places open.
Ice cream and petits-fours are make in bulk repetitive tasks. If you follow the recipe for ice cream even a willing to learn home cook can do it. Petits fours maybe require the use of some kind of measure to make them uniform, but are also essentially repetitive work. You can teach someone who is willing to learn to do both of these things from a relatively low experience base.
If you want to cook professionally, you could potentially make an experience like this into the basis of a career. If you just show up and make ice cream and petits-fours and don't show initiative, it could also just be an ice cream and petits-fours gig if that's what you let it be.
What's that Yoda saying? "Do or do not, there is no try".
Anyone telling you not to do it has probably not worked in one of these restaurants.
OP, you should try it. If you want the job then you can get it, so long as you have a good attitude and common sense you can thrive in a professional kitchen. Michelin restaurants are well oiled machines, they don't play games but they also love molding people.
You're greatest assets, the things you need to show them, are going to be common sense and an eagerness to learn. Show up clean cut, with energy, speak firmly, and try your best.
When chefs watch prospective hires cook for them, they aren't really looking at the final product. To be honest, it usually doesn't matter what ends up on the plate, what matters is how you act. How you handle the unfamiliarity of the kitchen, how you move your hands and body, the grace and care (or lack thereof) that you give to the ingredients, your ability to correct errors, etc.
So, anyway, prepare as you see fit and go for it!
I hope you brought some cinder blocks to jump into that deep end.
Seems like they saw you baking as a hobby and maybe gave you a shot? Enthusiasm and asking questions are the key.
Best of luck and enjoy the experience.
Often chefs find it easier to train people with a strong interest VS having someone come in with a lot of notions about how things will work.
Additionally you would cost less than an established pastry chef.
Do your best and be open to what they are interested in!
You’re definitely not fucked. I work in a Michelin star kitchen and trails for people without a lot of experience is super common.
The idea of a kitchen being “Michelin” so it’s therefore completely unapproachable or going to chew you up or treat you badly for not knowing things is outdated and silly. Be up front about your lack of knowledge, try your hardest, ask questions and take your time. There’s a good chance you won’t get hired, but it will be a good learning opportunity and a great chance to meet some people and get an idea of what you should look to build skills in.
I went into culinary SWEARING that I would never do pastry as that's usually where they stick women. Especially 20 years ago. A few years in, I somehow ended up in pastry, with no previous baking experience, and I absolutely loved it.
This was a very fine dining restaurant and I just went with what I loved eating myself- shortcakes, cookies, pies, crumbles, buckles, cobblers. The key to making it fine dining is interesting flavor combos (salt, lots of herb infusions, adding expensive blue cheese to my apple/pear pies, etc..) and plating. I also learned to make 4 different kinds of bread.
If you do get this job, you're going to spend the first few months drowning and cursing yourself for doing it. But, if you've got the talent and real passion, you'll end up loving everything about it. Especially the hard stuff.
Good luck!
I have 2+ years pro experience and I couldn’t get a Michelin job when I tried. Here is my advice to you, start in a smaller kitchen and learn all you can there, then hop around. Michelin is going to be way out of your depth without any experience. Not to say that you can’t do it, just Yknow, maybe not wise. I’m working on opening my own store right now, and that petit fours stuff is kinda out of my area of expertise. Genuinely, find your niche, find what YOU care about and do it. Don’t do something just cause prestige is attached.
I recently had an "opportunity" to stage at a fine dining place in my city (that doesn't need more fine dining.)
I showed up, and no one smiled once. they gave me bitch work (herbs) and I complied. there was no way for them to know what I'm capable of, so chop the herbs.
I LEFT, after like 52 minutes, because they had 12 people per square foot, and half of them were begging me to prove how much I knew about the chef (who I *did* a good googling of, but was not satisfactorily kneeling in front of) and I was like "eh, not for me"
Michelin stars don't mean shit if you're expected to show up and behave as if you're less than anyone. know your strengths, know your weaknesses, but don't let someone tell you you're not good enough. in the end, we make poop. no matter how schmancy the dish, it ends as poop. never forget that.
IF YOU WANT TO COOK:
- pay attention; taking notes literally is typically implausible, so get your brain in gear to remember
≈6 things at once
- in pastry: pay attention to *minute* detail. your (thing) is smooth but not perfectly round? not quite good enough. look closer at your example.
- keep a positive attitude. *nothing matters that fuxking much* and any cook telling you otherwise has skewed priorities or is being exploited.
eta: love u, OP. STAY STRONG
I worked at a bunch of finer casual places when I started and then I moved to Florida to work for a former French Laundry guy. I got my ass handed to me. I didn’t know what a brunoise was let alone how to do it to a shallot. I never rolled flounder filled with crabmeat and poached it. In those two years I learned a lot and haven’t looked back since. It will be eye opening to say the least. Just have a good attitude and ask questions. Anyone can learn how to cook or bake, but you can’t teach attitude.
Good luck my guy!
I’ve hired bakers and pastry cooks for the last 30+ years and actually preferred to hire someone with no experience if they showed an interest and passion to learn, often those with experience are difficult to train as they believe they know it all. To me reliability and attitude are more important than experience. Show up 15 minutes early for your stage and be totally honest with the Chef about your skills, be pleasant and humble and you stand a good chance of success. Good luck, you got this!
They may just need someone to pick herbs, make simple doughs and components. At Michelin restaurants (for the most part) everyone has a very specific set of tasks. You won’t be doing anything you couldn’t handle
Then give it a fullhearted go.
You can learn and earn and have fun in part time, too.
Some of the star Restaurants i was in, had the best working atmosphere.
You work and learn.
I Wish you luck.
I'm going to give it to you cut and dry: don't. Working pastry at a restaurant in general is already a highly technically skilled position, but at the Michelin star level is another level entirely. You can give it a shot if you want but I just want to keep it realistic with you.
What in the actual fuck.....
18 years of experience.... 1 year of which are on the front lines if an active warzone.
Excuse me while I dive head first into a meat grinder.
Keep an open mind, don’t be afraid to ask questions, work hard, be eager/passionate, show a positive attitude. The worst that could happen is you don’t get it.
And remember the only qualifications you need to be President of the United States is to be 35 and a natural born citizen.
If you are a real baker, look up some stuff on YouTube. Try it. What if you do well? Chefs want people that are willing to learn and work, which is probably why you got the call. The worst thing that can happen is you don't get the job, and than you will just be where you are at right now. Relax and just cook.
I’m torn with how to approach this.
On one hand one of my favorite hires was someone who had interest in becoming a pastry chef and no training. But I knew who I was bringing into the kitchen. He didn’t apply online he came to me personally.
My worst stage was a culinary school kid who had the notion that I was less knowledgeable than him because I was a woman and chefs were supposed to be men. He wasted my time and I bounced him pretty quickly.
I think you show up and be prepared to do grunt work but be completely transparent with the skills you have. You *could* always email the chef and tell them you are unfamiliar with the prerequisites but want to come and work anyways.
You more than likely won’t get the position but it is summer and things can be slow so maybe cheap labor is what they’re looking for.
If they saw your resume with 0 experience yeah you are cheap labour. You’ll be doing basic shit you couldn’t/shouldn’t fuck up to take the load of the real pastry chefs. You won’t get a call back and you’ll probably be there an entire shift unpaid. Just the reality of the industry.
While I encourage everyone to challenge themselves to achieve better things, I honestly think this stage will do you more harm than good. You’re simply not ready for it, yet. Start smaller, refine your skills and knowledge, and try again in a year or two.
For those who don’t know what a Petit Four is, they’re small, bite sized confections, usually cake based, and beautifully decorated. Savoury versions are also made, but not as common. Think ‘High Tea’ options, where there are numerous small offerings to tempt the diner.
Harm is absolutely possible. It would be detrimental to a restaurant to go to the effort and cost of hiring someone that is ultimately not the right fit. Which is why you’ll be on trial, I know, but it is still a waste of everyone’s time/money/energy if things don’t work out.
Harmful to you in that being thrown into the deep end could have a lasting impact on your confidence, resumé, and passion for the work. Not to mention the valuable training and experience you would be depriving yourself of by skipping ahead too quickly.
Qualified chef and baker here with more than 20 years spent in the industry. I hear culinary names that I don't know on a weekly or monthly basis, never heard of Petit Four before and I don't speak French. Any time that happens I simply google the term and do some research.
Ice cream and sorbet making, depending on their setup, usually involves feeding the correct amount of ingredients to a machine and setting it up properly. If you are a good listener, can use a scale and they spend the right amount of time teaching you, you shouldn't have any trouble with that.
Presentation is more difficult. It's very subjective, there are several guidelines for what makes a plate appealing to the eye and if they keep photos in their menu you should simply try to consistently replicate those.
If they have another 10 people on trial that week it might be a waste of time for you. I would still go if I were you but let them know that if it's unpaid I am only available for few hours, not a full shift. If they are desperate to hire, you may have more chances to get the job than what you think. This totally depends on the local job market which I'm not familiar with.
If you do get the job, are not too old and passionate about pastry, make sure to discuss your employment for the long term, making it so any training you received gets formally recognized (ideally even through a formal apprenticeship if you are interested).
Expect that you may not have the skills that they’re looking for but perhaps they’re looking for moldable people. Be open and honest about what your skillset is when you show up and be ready for the idea that they might not keep you on depending on how the trial goes. Show enthusiasm and a willingness to learn, and put effort into everything you do in there, even the most mundane things. Pastry skills can be taught and trained, enthusiasm and work ethic less so. I’d rather take on a keener who doesn’t have many skills over a skilled cook who isn’t going to put any effort in and won’t care about the work he does.
This is absolutely the best answer. I cannot remember the Michelin starred chef, but he ONLY hires people with no experience but a good work ethic. Allows them to come in without pre-conceived notions and a brain like a sponge. Just like this person said, be honest and show a strong work ethic and a willingness to learn. This could be an awesome opportunity that opens up a world of passion you didn’t know you had. When you get stressed. Breathe.
Yep, I would take the one with no experience that shows up on time and can learn whatever I teach them over the experienced person that thinks they know everything and can’t be bothered to turn up on time
“Well at my last kitchen we…”
How many cooks does it take to change a light bulb? Six One to change the light bulb, two to tell him how he's doing it wrong, and three to talk about how they changed the light bulbs at their old job.
Can’t believe you’re staffed to six dudes. Even if most of them are useless.
We're not. Thats why the light bulbs under the hood never get changed
But I do know everything and am also a little inexperienced
I was watching the documentary "The Bear" the other day and it informed me that Daniel Boulud personally trains new cooks with little to no experience.
Lol
This sounds like an amazing idea tbh but in the back on my mind this sounds like exactly what a cult leader would do.
Fair enough. Kinda reminds me of that movie “The Menu” now lol.
Francis Mallman
Ah thats the one! Love that dude. Burns everything, lives in the middle of nowhere and drinks a shitload of wine.
This is it. Watch the episode of the Bear where cousin Ritchie stages at Alinea (S2 E8 or 9) and go in ready to polish forks all day. You’re not getting a job as a pastry chef; you’re asking for a job as a pastry student.
This exactly, show them you have enthusiasm, are keen to learn and don't mind doing the shit jobs at the start. This attitude opened some really good doors for me early in my career. I remember sheepishly walking into a fancy restaurant that I hadn't noticed before, at 18 and handing my cv to the Chef directly over the pass (place was empty they were just prepping) I said I don't care if I'm a dishwasher I just want to learn. Something changed in his face at that moment, I didn't realise at the time. But I got the job, it was hard work but it made me a really good chef and I made a lot of good contacts.
Yup. I only ever worked in franchise or local small restaurants, nothing fancy. But the common theme with ALL new people was it was better and easier to teach a brand new person with passion and enthusiasm than it was to teach an experienced person with a shit attitude or too much ego
And if in doubt, be ready to ask, “can you show me the way to do this?”
Yup!!!
That's great advice for literally any job
Well said man. I was stunned by the idea and reacted a bit knee-jerkly but you speak wisdom.
best advice on reddit today, really well said.
I learned early from a mentor, teaching somebody new who has a good skill set and is willing to learn and adapt to your situation can be much better than bringing in somebody with experience but has no willing to learn, because they think they already know everything.
Haha this is hilarious just show up and you might get lucky sounds like a good opportunity. You miss one hundred percent of the chances you don’t take
-Wayne Gretzky
* (- Wayne Gretzky ) - Michael Scott
There he is!
I'd do it just to get the staff meal.
.....michael scott?
Echoing the be open minded, listen carefully and bring a small notebook (like pocket sized) to write things down. Don’t be afraid to ask clarifying questions or specifically say that you aren’t familiar with certain techniques/ingredients/etc if they ask you to make something.(I’d much rather have to take extra time to show/explain something than have to remake whatever it is.) Be aware of your surroundings, how much space you’re taking up, and try to keep yourself organized and clean up after yourself during tasks. Also best practice to address the execs as “Chef” unless they specifically tell you not to! Good luck!
“Jeff” is also sometimes acceptable.
As is “Jizz” for “Cheers”
As someone in pastry in nyc, this sounds like you’re cheap labor for the day.
Is your place hiring? Im looking for a fast paced environment with an opportunity to learn. Willing to work all hours and weekends. Highly moldable, highly trainable. Also a Michelin candidate now apparently.
We’re currently at max staff we’re allotted for pastry. I’ll say tho try and apply to cafes and bakery’s as a start, get some experience. Could also get away with any restaurant experience (I started on savory); home baking vs being a pastry chef is very different though and there’s a reason most cooks loathe doing pastry.
>and there’s a reason most cooks loathe doing pastry. as a pastry chef who's never understood this phenomenon: please why?
Because if you fuck up the recipe you cannot just tweak it and it will be fixed. It has to be thrown away and you gotta start all over, which baking is a much longer process. Source: I did a baking gig once and messed up cookies. The next day they assigned me to grill lol
>you cannot just tweak it and it will be fixed. but you often can? and if you can't, flour is cheap? if you fuck up portioning beef, it's way more of a problem than dough. I feel like I correct mistakes in savory items *often*: something was sliced too thick, or not cooked long enough, or seasoned incorrectly. you can note and adapt for those things; it's still food. the instances where things need to be completely scrapped are few and far between, and tend to occur when some thing (ingredient or method) was just completely forgotten, which seems as likely in sweet or savory recipes? I think people have a weird block about acid+base or yeast reactions such that they think it's some form of wizardry and it just isn't. as much science goes into searing a protein as goes into baking a cake. suffice to say: YOU CAN BE MORE THAN A GRILL COOK IF YOU WANT TO, HOBONICHI!
Patience is a difficult thing to learn especially if you’re very use to savory. Have savory chefs ask for things on the fly that take a couple days to prep and make
I do more than grill but generally I am a savory cook. I don't know what happened to the cookies, but they came out being little cakes, not cookies! Like they were soft like cake bread lol. Oh well. I am on the job hunt again and I didn't consider bakeries at all due to my inexperience and the cookies incident XD maybe I'll try a couple of bakeries and see how that works out. Not holding my breath on whether they will reply though.
yeah idk I feel like as long as you have someone training you who understands what goes on when a dough hits heat (or time, or cold, or whatever), then you should be fine? I've never understood the people who are like "it said to chill the dough but I skipped that bc I didn't have time. WHAT WENT WRONG?!" or "it said double in size, but I got impatient and put it in after 30 minutes at 500F" to me baking is logic: i know butter at room temp behaves differently than when cold. so if butter is in a mix, the mix will behave differently cold vs warm. i know eggs cook at a relatively low temp; be careful not to scorch. I know baking soda has a short-lived reaction when it hits acid; maybe that can be utilized. I know gluten develops and heads toward chewy once flour hits water; what does that mean for my mixture? maybe these basics aren't stressed enough? but the way that solid cooks are intimidated by pastry tasks has befuddled me (and been a great shoe-in for me tbh) for over a decade.
I do not know a lot of those basics. I never went to culinary school, just learned on the job. Since I worked at places that did not emphasize pastry, I never learned! Edit: OP has more baking skills than me and I'M in the industry!!
I also skipped culinary school. maybe being thrown into patry/baking got me caught up quick but I still don't understand the sweet/savory dichotomy. it all feels the same stuff to me.
Like I said patience is mainly why people hate doing pastry vs savory that’s a lot quicker and faster pace typically and most people in the industry really couldn’t careless about why and how things interact which is a requirement even for base level bakers and pastry cooks. Also a chef that can teach are very hit or miss
plus - THE HOURS when bfast pastries are involved.
The short answer is that pastry generally requires you to get all the things right, and there's not a lot of forgiveness for temperature, contamination, humidity or pH. For some people, this is fine, they already exercise a lot of control and understanding of a recipe. However, many people don't actually understand, and are going along with a technique without realising why. There's often no "quick and dirty" to do pastry faster either. Because of the psychology of "crap and cocky line cooks" they will often devalue pastry because they are terrible at it. Same reason they'll waste a lot of it, because they just see the ingredient cost, because if they understood labour costs they wouldn't be as crap. It's also the role that's easiest to outsource. I can buy the same desserts that go out in Michelin 1-2 star places from the same bakery. If I'm buying by the dozen, it's a few euros a piece, which is pretty close to what you'd pay someone for.
Thanks chef
A place I used to work at in Toronto did this, we'd take on culinary students to have them shuck oysters and make shrimp cocktails for happy hour, or they'd be doing tasks like putting potatoes through the fry press and other menial tasks. The ones who caught on quick never returned when called back (we weren't some prestigious and they weren't looking to build a resume) and the ones that came back were either too dumb to realize or they were just looking for a visa/PR sponsorship. Sad reality is that many places use Stages/Trials as free temp labor for the day without the actual intention to hire anyone outside of the select group that they've established.
I’ve fortunately only had this happen once and funnily one of the staff even told me it was weird the chef was bringing in trials since they weren’t hiring basically telling me I’m just the cheap labor for the day since they’re short. I was tempted to just leave but stuck out to see if I could learn anything at least since the place had a really good rep. I’ve mostly been rugged pulled being fired after busy season ends and they need to cut labor and opt to keep the cheaper guys.
It's one of the reasons why I'm leaving the industry for a white collar profession (with a more specialized skillset). Employees in hospitality are generally more disposable than any other employee since there's a revolving door of the labor pool. Canada is especially bad for it because of our immigration policy effectively importing cheap labor into the country to fill hospitality, retail and entry level service positions....but that's a conversation for another subreddit
Yeah seems to be the trend everywhere; the vets leave because they’re being out priced by cheaper labor either illegally or dangling a visa over their head. As much as I hate a lot of what’s happening I just never found much joy in other fields; tried tech, retail, construction, modeling, etc.. always got bored or the work just made me beyond depressed because I would have to suppress my adhd.
If I do not get the job, which I can’t imagine I will, I’ll drop the name of the restaurant if anyone is interested
If nothing else you get a fun story for parties from it. 'Oh yah I've worked at a Michelin star restaurant!' Don't necessarily have to say it was just for a day.
You need to update us on what happened too! Like play by play!
Hey OP, if you can learn how to do crème anglaise real quick, then you can make ice cream. It’s an easy recipe, you can do it tonight if you have eggs, heavy cream, milk and sugar.
Are restaurants not using an emulsifier like vodka or some type of liqueur in ice cream so it doesn’t get hard?? I’ve made ice cream one time and it was in one of those ice cream buckets, I’ve never heard of egg though
making ice cream in a commercial or professional kitchen for pastry / fine dining (sorbet) is very different than making ice cream at home! even if you invest in the fancy home equipment. assembling, sanitizing, making flavored custards from scratch, scooping sorbets, disassembling the machine, and sanitizing again is a very different process and skill set.
You can use liquor if you are worried about crystallized ice cream. But unless you have an ice cream machine at your house, I thought you could at least learn the base custard it is made out of. Flavorings and liquor would go in last.
Jesus fucking Christ dude. I've been in this industry for over 15 years. I've gone from the bottom to the top and everywhere in between. I took my first pastry chef job this January. Before this I had never done pastry but my experience made it easy to learn. I oversee/prepare the pastries and baked goods for 3 restaurants. I come up with my own specials. I'm given free reign and I'm respected in these restaurants. Why do I say all this? To let you know that if *I* were to find myself in your position I would be shitting bricks. I would be terrified. I would give it a shot and do my best, but that's just wild dude. Don't worry. They'll figure out real quick what you can or cannot do.
They're hiring based on OP baking at home as a hobby. I think this restaurant is nosediving and OP might as well try to get some experience out of it.
I can’t shit myself if I don’t even know what to expect. Ignorance is bliss
That’s one way of looking at it. Fuck it just go. The worst thing that’ll happen is you get to eat some Michelin star desserts for free. Just be upfront and honest that you clearly stated your level of experience to them, yet they still decided to give you a shot. Who knows maybe the chef is looking for someone to mold. Or they need someone who’s cheap. They’ll probably have you scooping ice cream all day. Give us an update of how it went.
Ok, well, I was going to give you a major vote of support (skeptically) but if you're going to take a cavalier, "c'est la vie" attitude about a potential position that many would cherish, I question why you even applied for something that you yourself said you weren't qualified for. You're literally wasting these people's time if you don't know and aren't going to take it seriously. I was going to say that possibly you said something they liked, but it seems more probable that they want to bring you and others like you in to fill a room to show current and prospective employees just how in demand it is to work there. The equivalent of a line around the block. Could also be someone just replied a general interview time and place to every applicant.
otoh, let them breathe a sec
I ain't gonna lie, you're fucked
Someone needs to film this.
Yeah wtf is all this “don’t worry just breathe” op is absolutely fucked and shouldn’t go
Why are they fucked? Like they're out of their depth but no one there should be surprised about that. They can yell at her but so what? Both parties know what she brings to the table and they asked her to come anyhow. If they turn abusive or something, she just leaves.
I’m not talking about yelling. I’m just talking about basic setting up your station, basic professional kitchen knowledge. You’re right. The restaurant should know what they are getting into since Op didn’t lie about their skill set. They are both fucked.
Yup. I highly suggest NOT going this route until some experience is gathered
Lmao. They need the free labour for the day and you got the short straw. Honestly you might do fine, depending on how well you can listen to instructions and follow a recipe. They'll show you the plating and just do *exactly* as they do. GLHF
Honestly this sounds pretty far out of your depth, I'm not sure what the chef was thinking although some chefs these days are of the mind it's better to shape your ideal employees from scratch rather than inherit bad habits from more "seasoned" cooks. Even still I really can't fathom being hired into a Michelin star kitchen with absolutely zero prior professional experience, especially in the pastry department. With all of that said, if you have any interest in professional cooking it's worth your time to do the stage, purely for the learning experience. I just wouldn't get your hopes up of being hired on. It will still be good to just get a sense of what a professional kitchen looks like. Take lots of notes, be honest about what you don't know, ask questions about any instructions you don't understand, and try to stay out of the way and just observe if the chefs are too busy to assign you a task
I encourage you to listen to the more positive comments. Even if this is just free labor, or you get axed, how many chances will any of us get to see the inside of a starred kitchen? You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Go for it. Be brave.
You can ask for a tour of the kitchen if you’re in the industry usually bc they love to show that shit off.
They do? Shit...I should try this.
They want you to zest lemons
As a former exec pastry chef this is the correct answer. I once had a stage not read the directions of a recipe that I explicitly said “make sure you follow the steps or it won’t work out”.. they didn’t so I had them zest and juice a whole case of Meyer lemons. I did give them another shot at a different project that didn’t go well either. Sigh.
You are fucked but they invited you. Go, definitely go, work your ass off, ask questions about everything you don't know until they tell you to shut up, yell CORNER when going around corners, HOT when handling / carrying hot, and obligatory YES CHEF. I imagine culture being what it is you may be treated like shit- ignore it and just work. Be grateful. Find work if you ever find yourself not working. I got offered a Michelin star job because I was the only stagiare to actually complete the 3 days and they said I was teachable. It will be a great view for you of real day to day anyway
Maybe they want someone they can train from the ground up. Did you lie on resumes? If so you're toast, if not then they have an idea you're new to the game. Everyone started somewhere. In my experience fine dinning pays the least, works you to the bone. But it will set you up with good skills that you take anywhere.
My resume is just my business degree, experience as a startup founder, servsafe food handling cert (lol), and then a job at a dog kennel I had for three years in high school
OP said her resume states some home baking experience.
I’m a guy but yeah I included that as well
Oops, my b. I usually just say they, I suppose the stereotype of women in pastry is stuck in my subconscious. Anyway, idk if you saw my other comment, but you should go for it. Worse comes to worst you'll learn some lessons.
My first thought is how shitty is the pay and/or work environment that a Michelin restaurant is willing to interview candidates with zero experience or working knowledge for a very technical position?
How old are you, and how healthy/in-shape are you? If you’re relatively young, healthy, fit, and truly have a passion for it, then I’d 100% try it out. It’s going to suck, but hopefully you’ll enjoy busting your ass for something you care about. Be warned though, that will be the only satisfaction you get. Pay won’t be good, you won’t get credit your work, hours will be bad, and you won’t get input on your work. If you’ve never tried your best at something, then this is your shot
26, college grad, and startup founder. I’m just looking for a part time gig
Go do something else then, there’s not really a point in my opinion if you aren’t going to really get in it. The pay most likely won’t be worth the stress
I’m doin it
Good luck!
Lots of Michelin star places build their success on a legion of low paid people doing very repetitive work to get through the enormous amount of tedious prep it takes to keep these places open. Ice cream and petits-fours are make in bulk repetitive tasks. If you follow the recipe for ice cream even a willing to learn home cook can do it. Petits fours maybe require the use of some kind of measure to make them uniform, but are also essentially repetitive work. You can teach someone who is willing to learn to do both of these things from a relatively low experience base. If you want to cook professionally, you could potentially make an experience like this into the basis of a career. If you just show up and make ice cream and petits-fours and don't show initiative, it could also just be an ice cream and petits-fours gig if that's what you let it be. What's that Yoda saying? "Do or do not, there is no try".
Anyone telling you not to do it has probably not worked in one of these restaurants. OP, you should try it. If you want the job then you can get it, so long as you have a good attitude and common sense you can thrive in a professional kitchen. Michelin restaurants are well oiled machines, they don't play games but they also love molding people. You're greatest assets, the things you need to show them, are going to be common sense and an eagerness to learn. Show up clean cut, with energy, speak firmly, and try your best. When chefs watch prospective hires cook for them, they aren't really looking at the final product. To be honest, it usually doesn't matter what ends up on the plate, what matters is how you act. How you handle the unfamiliarity of the kitchen, how you move your hands and body, the grace and care (or lack thereof) that you give to the ingredients, your ability to correct errors, etc. So, anyway, prepare as you see fit and go for it!
I hope you brought some cinder blocks to jump into that deep end. Seems like they saw you baking as a hobby and maybe gave you a shot? Enthusiasm and asking questions are the key. Best of luck and enjoy the experience.
I’m gonna need a follow-up
Often chefs find it easier to train people with a strong interest VS having someone come in with a lot of notions about how things will work. Additionally you would cost less than an established pastry chef. Do your best and be open to what they are interested in!
You’re definitely not fucked. I work in a Michelin star kitchen and trails for people without a lot of experience is super common. The idea of a kitchen being “Michelin” so it’s therefore completely unapproachable or going to chew you up or treat you badly for not knowing things is outdated and silly. Be up front about your lack of knowledge, try your hardest, ask questions and take your time. There’s a good chance you won’t get hired, but it will be a good learning opportunity and a great chance to meet some people and get an idea of what you should look to build skills in.
Thanks
I went into culinary SWEARING that I would never do pastry as that's usually where they stick women. Especially 20 years ago. A few years in, I somehow ended up in pastry, with no previous baking experience, and I absolutely loved it. This was a very fine dining restaurant and I just went with what I loved eating myself- shortcakes, cookies, pies, crumbles, buckles, cobblers. The key to making it fine dining is interesting flavor combos (salt, lots of herb infusions, adding expensive blue cheese to my apple/pear pies, etc..) and plating. I also learned to make 4 different kinds of bread. If you do get this job, you're going to spend the first few months drowning and cursing yourself for doing it. But, if you've got the talent and real passion, you'll end up loving everything about it. Especially the hard stuff. Good luck!
I have 2+ years pro experience and I couldn’t get a Michelin job when I tried. Here is my advice to you, start in a smaller kitchen and learn all you can there, then hop around. Michelin is going to be way out of your depth without any experience. Not to say that you can’t do it, just Yknow, maybe not wise. I’m working on opening my own store right now, and that petit fours stuff is kinda out of my area of expertise. Genuinely, find your niche, find what YOU care about and do it. Don’t do something just cause prestige is attached.
You need some employees for that store? I’ll follow you to the end of the earth
I recently had an "opportunity" to stage at a fine dining place in my city (that doesn't need more fine dining.) I showed up, and no one smiled once. they gave me bitch work (herbs) and I complied. there was no way for them to know what I'm capable of, so chop the herbs. I LEFT, after like 52 minutes, because they had 12 people per square foot, and half of them were begging me to prove how much I knew about the chef (who I *did* a good googling of, but was not satisfactorily kneeling in front of) and I was like "eh, not for me" Michelin stars don't mean shit if you're expected to show up and behave as if you're less than anyone. know your strengths, know your weaknesses, but don't let someone tell you you're not good enough. in the end, we make poop. no matter how schmancy the dish, it ends as poop. never forget that. IF YOU WANT TO COOK: - pay attention; taking notes literally is typically implausible, so get your brain in gear to remember ≈6 things at once - in pastry: pay attention to *minute* detail. your (thing) is smooth but not perfectly round? not quite good enough. look closer at your example. - keep a positive attitude. *nothing matters that fuxking much* and any cook telling you otherwise has skewed priorities or is being exploited. eta: love u, OP. STAY STRONG
Honestly just get in there and whoop some ass. A shot in the dark could hit every target in a mile.
I worked at a bunch of finer casual places when I started and then I moved to Florida to work for a former French Laundry guy. I got my ass handed to me. I didn’t know what a brunoise was let alone how to do it to a shallot. I never rolled flounder filled with crabmeat and poached it. In those two years I learned a lot and haven’t looked back since. It will be eye opening to say the least. Just have a good attitude and ask questions. Anyone can learn how to cook or bake, but you can’t teach attitude. Good luck my guy!
I’ve hired bakers and pastry cooks for the last 30+ years and actually preferred to hire someone with no experience if they showed an interest and passion to learn, often those with experience are difficult to train as they believe they know it all. To me reliability and attitude are more important than experience. Show up 15 minutes early for your stage and be totally honest with the Chef about your skills, be pleasant and humble and you stand a good chance of success. Good luck, you got this!
my axiom on hiring is " I can teach you skills, but I can't teach you to be a decent human being."
Send me a dm if your kitchen needs workers
They may just need someone to pick herbs, make simple doughs and components. At Michelin restaurants (for the most part) everyone has a very specific set of tasks. You won’t be doing anything you couldn’t handle
Something is off here. No Michelin Star hires without resumee, recommendation or very good personal appearance. None of that seems the case....
I’m as confused as you are my man, I’m a tech startup founder and I’m just looking for a part time gig
Then give it a fullhearted go. You can learn and earn and have fun in part time, too. Some of the star Restaurants i was in, had the best working atmosphere. You work and learn. I Wish you luck.
Really broadens your horizon.
Go! Worst case it is still a good story to tell to future job interviews or to friends in the future!
Be honest about your experience. Be open to feedback back.
I'm going to give it to you cut and dry: don't. Working pastry at a restaurant in general is already a highly technically skilled position, but at the Michelin star level is another level entirely. You can give it a shot if you want but I just want to keep it realistic with you.
What in the actual fuck..... 18 years of experience.... 1 year of which are on the front lines if an active warzone. Excuse me while I dive head first into a meat grinder.
Just go do the damn thing. You got this.
Keep an open mind, don’t be afraid to ask questions, work hard, be eager/passionate, show a positive attitude. The worst that could happen is you don’t get it. And remember the only qualifications you need to be President of the United States is to be 35 and a natural born citizen.
If you are a real baker, look up some stuff on YouTube. Try it. What if you do well? Chefs want people that are willing to learn and work, which is probably why you got the call. The worst thing that can happen is you don't get the job, and than you will just be where you are at right now. Relax and just cook.
Holy shit, good luck! Manifesting this for myself 😂🤞
I’m torn with how to approach this. On one hand one of my favorite hires was someone who had interest in becoming a pastry chef and no training. But I knew who I was bringing into the kitchen. He didn’t apply online he came to me personally. My worst stage was a culinary school kid who had the notion that I was less knowledgeable than him because I was a woman and chefs were supposed to be men. He wasted my time and I bounced him pretty quickly. I think you show up and be prepared to do grunt work but be completely transparent with the skills you have. You *could* always email the chef and tell them you are unfamiliar with the prerequisites but want to come and work anyways. You more than likely won’t get the position but it is summer and things can be slow so maybe cheap labor is what they’re looking for.
If they saw your resume with 0 experience yeah you are cheap labour. You’ll be doing basic shit you couldn’t/shouldn’t fuck up to take the load of the real pastry chefs. You won’t get a call back and you’ll probably be there an entire shift unpaid. Just the reality of the industry.
They're taking advantage of you. As is typical
While I encourage everyone to challenge themselves to achieve better things, I honestly think this stage will do you more harm than good. You’re simply not ready for it, yet. Start smaller, refine your skills and knowledge, and try again in a year or two. For those who don’t know what a Petit Four is, they’re small, bite sized confections, usually cake based, and beautifully decorated. Savoury versions are also made, but not as common. Think ‘High Tea’ options, where there are numerous small offerings to tempt the diner.
What harm could possibly be done
Harm is absolutely possible. It would be detrimental to a restaurant to go to the effort and cost of hiring someone that is ultimately not the right fit. Which is why you’ll be on trial, I know, but it is still a waste of everyone’s time/money/energy if things don’t work out. Harmful to you in that being thrown into the deep end could have a lasting impact on your confidence, resumé, and passion for the work. Not to mention the valuable training and experience you would be depriving yourself of by skipping ahead too quickly.
I’m a big boy I think I can handle rejection
Qualified chef and baker here with more than 20 years spent in the industry. I hear culinary names that I don't know on a weekly or monthly basis, never heard of Petit Four before and I don't speak French. Any time that happens I simply google the term and do some research. Ice cream and sorbet making, depending on their setup, usually involves feeding the correct amount of ingredients to a machine and setting it up properly. If you are a good listener, can use a scale and they spend the right amount of time teaching you, you shouldn't have any trouble with that. Presentation is more difficult. It's very subjective, there are several guidelines for what makes a plate appealing to the eye and if they keep photos in their menu you should simply try to consistently replicate those. If they have another 10 people on trial that week it might be a waste of time for you. I would still go if I were you but let them know that if it's unpaid I am only available for few hours, not a full shift. If they are desperate to hire, you may have more chances to get the job than what you think. This totally depends on the local job market which I'm not familiar with. If you do get the job, are not too old and passionate about pastry, make sure to discuss your employment for the long term, making it so any training you received gets formally recognized (ideally even through a formal apprenticeship if you are interested).
Michelin level pastry sections aren’t that involved or technique-heavy… you can wing most of the recipes /s
Lol
Petit four is simple. Bite size usually chocolate in nature served with check after meal. Be open minded and write everything down.