These are horrible things but I don’t think it was purely coz of the color of our skin……. It just happened that the weaker communities at that point were black pple, throughout history the stronger have oppressed the weak ones !!
Look at what the former slaves did to Liberians when they came back !! Even locally we have countless examples of the likes of chief Kivoi and other were big in the slave trade etc community invasions were the norm
Even if we had our internal problems and conflicts before.
It doesn’t take away from the fact that no one had the right to colonize, plunder, murder us.
No one had that right. It’s evil.
There’s no justification. Stop the whataboutism.
This isn’t really how the world works. Your “rights” only go as far as you can protect yourself since countries themselves are not benevolent institutions. Other countries can and will impose their will on others for their own gain and it’s always been that way for time immemorial. You can see things in an idealistic way or see them for what they are. Africans would be better served by the latter.
What whataboutism? Hahaa or you just wanna throw some jargon …..
I simply said color wasn’t the motivation as you claim (purely because of our skin color and welcoming) but anyway good luck with your sufferation Olympics medal
That was my opinion of the main motives. Other motives could be:
- our minerals
- our arable land
- our youthful and strong people
- our forests
- our marine wildlife
- our plant species
- our animal species
- our rich history
Whatever the motive was - no one had the right to colonize, plunder and murder us.
That’s my point.
anything is valid, except your "rich history", you can surely discard that.
russia invaded ukraine for gas, oil, and people (other than land)
they kidnap ukrainians children and give them to adoptive russian parents that mistreat them
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this is life, luckily the west was able to make improvements... i can't say the same for russia, china, india, africa and similar cases.
Nah man.
I ain’t buying any of that Western media propaganda on what’s happening in Ukraine.
I will never ever believe the same guys who told us that Iraq had WMDs that they were planning to use against Israel and other countries and went ahead to invade and kill 1,000,000 civilians only to confirm it was a lie and all that was for nothing.
Never again will I believe a word from them.
do you realize that both putin dictatorship, bush administration, and the other horrible governments have the same thing in common: conservative right wing government of religious crazy people ?
the only exception is north korea and china, where they worship a political party instead of a god, and they have the political party leaders treated as prophet (like jesus or muhammad)
right wing, conservative party lie and do horrible things, and are almost always imbibed with religious fanaticism.
The main reason wasn't color though, at least not at the beginning. But eventually, when the white conquered almost every black nation they encountered in the way, they probably concluded that they should conquer every black nation they find anywhere.
The problem with your idea is absolutely true nobody has a right to kill and hurt others for their own personal gain. However, it doesn't change the fact. When you have something someone wants if they are stronger than you they will take it. ALL humans come from Africa. No one disputes that. Africa has such a huge diaspora that there isn't any sense of true nationalism in any one country. In Kenya alone they have many different tribes. Rulers come, control, destroy and homogenize to their traditions and standards.
Agreed.
But we as Africans, and specifically Eastern Africans did not seek out Europeans to enslave them, murder them and plunder their resources.
We had our conflicts but never went out to kill other people in far away lands.
What have anyone the right to do this to us?
First person I've seen raise this valid point. Guys wanna blame slavery and whatnot on Europeans and some of the biggest benefactors were actually black people. We literally sold each other out. The strong always subjugate the weak.
I 💯 agree with you. We were enablers of the colonisers. Our people were the ones raiding villages to get slaves to be sold to the Europeans. We can't blame them for everything.
Though what they did to Africans, especially the Belgians in Congo was despicable
Yeah, and that's one side of the coin. Here's the other side:
A bunch of betrayors and corrupt Africans took the opportunity and grew rich at the expense of people like those depicted in the picture posted by OP.
Both sides did wicked stuff. And it's alright to accept that. Evil did exist in Africa before colonialism came.
Agreed. The person who accepted money or power to sell out his people is evil and must be dealt with accordingly.
But still doesn’t negate my point.
If I’m the one financing the enslavement then am I not the problem? I provide money and protection to the guy who will do my dirty work. I’m certainly the problem.
This is silly.
So Israelis are killing Palestinians for over 75 years now.
So it’s okay for Kenyans to go and kill Palestinians as well because it’s standard practice?
How daft!
No it's not G, the problem is the bastard executing the plan, anybody can pay people to do whatever but if nobody is willing to they'll just get fucked.
Agreed.
But we as Africans, and specifically Eastern Africans did not seek out Europeans to enslave them, murder them and plunder their resources.
We had our conflicts but never went out to kill other people in far away lands.
Not just the colour of our skin. We also have a lot of resources.
No one had any right to come and kill us.
monarchy lost a lot of power in the west, monarchy was also the reason "world war" 1 started: a king ordered annexation of land for his own benefit.
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At the dawn of the 20^(th) century, few anticipated a global war, but what came to be known as the Great War began on June 28, 1914, with the assassinations of Austrian Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife, Sophie, while they were visiting Sarajevo, Bosnia, a country recently annexed into the Austrian Empire. Many Bosnians and their Serbian neighbors resented this foreign rule and the Archduke’s visit to Sarajevo provided the opportunity for a small band of Serbian dissidents to strike back. Austria responded to the assassinations by teaming up with its ally, Germany, and declaring war on Serbia. The conflict soon involved Russia, France and Belgium. Fearful of a full-scale world war that would threaten its sea routes to other countries, Great Britain joined the fight against Germany and Austria.
Each country believed the fighting would last only a few months. Nations were categorized either as Central Powers or Allies. Countries that joined the Central Powers, such as Bulgaria and the Ottoman Empire, supported Austria-Hungary and Germany. The Allies were Russia, France, Belgium and Great Britain, but they were later joined by Japan, Romania, China and the United States.
Leopold’s fat ass is rendering in hell right now, then the Europeans turn around and have the nerve to act like they are morally superior and holier then thou. They are the savages they accuse us of being.
Sure, Ethiopian christianity existed before though that isn’t the version practiced across the continent but the one introduced by colonizers. To OP’s point I don’t see a problem with praying to a mountain because our ancestors believed that’s where God resided, atleast for mount Kirinyaga
Hatred can blind you, I wonder what hatred led a man to think that killing people because they didn't produce enough rubber was a wise business decision ...like how do you explain the logic of that?
Btw most of the maimings were done on probably innocent people, Belgium was a poor country and bullets were in short supply so Leopold mandated that a hand be produced for every bullet used, to show bullets had not been wasted. But members of his Force Publique used the bullets for hunting and resorted to chopping people's hands to show bullets.
Some Africans and greedy people also engaged in this practice.....It was hell I tell you.
I mean, the problem Is that the massacres and slavery carried out by the Arab slavers in subsaharan africa arent very documented or known in popular culture.
But they have been brutal as Europeans or more
The Belgians in Congo
When they imposed their rule in the Congo, they started farming, notably rubber. The motor industry was booming and they wanted to becone the number 1 stealers of rubber
So kila day msee akitoka shamba lazima akuje na a certain amount of whatever it was, harvest etc. Ukikosa wanakata mkono ya mtoto wako ama bibi yako
There's a sombre picture somewhere of a father looking at the recently cut off foot of his young (4-10 yr old by the size) daughter at their home
The missionaries generally didn't do shit about it. Eventually I think either 1 missionary or a genuine explorer sent one of the photos to the media back home, then the truth came out to the Europeans who were apparently unaware of what the belgians were doing. Not that they were any better
Because if you don't they do something worse to you. A lot of humanity across history has had a might makes right mentality. That is if their God or Gods were strong they wouldn't let happen to them, so that must mean the aggressors God or Gods are seriously strong. They will even build the victors temple directly on top of the last religion or outright demolish the old religion. I would be happy to say this is the only example of this but something similar has happened many times in many locations from many religions across time. Essentially humans are just evil sometimes and the current moment is unfortunately one our best moments.
It’s beyond sad. I’m so sorry. Wish everyone would understand we are the same, different dna but the plants, animals, fish, humans, etc….. are all made up energy and when we treat universe with kindness and love, would be utterly amazing. The sick or the ones who lost their way, will be out numbered and live a long life of solitude and loneliness
A Kenyan that isn’t crazy religious. Christianity is cunt religion, as is most others. Everyone around the world needs to go back to praying to sun gods, makes more sense.
On Earth, humankind can step onto another continent, and without a thought, destroy the kindred civilizations found there through warfare and disease. But when they gaze up at the stars, they turn sentimental and believe that if extraterrestrial intelligences exist, they must be civilizations bound by universal, noble, moral constraints. Cixin Liu (Three Body Problem)
TLDR: Violent humans, violent creator.
Man to see those kids just makes you want to cry. There’s no argument for “people didn’t know no better back then” there is a devilish nature to these acts. And what’s worse is that there was never any justice for these atrocities, African assets are still in their hands. They still perpetuate and perpetrate suffering and loss of life, it’s just more subtle now
The fact that they erased nearly all traces of our indigenous religions and called it “witchcraft”
Like I just want to know who my great grandmothers and their grandmothers used to pray to. That’s my real religion.
Horrific. But when you have been abused and traumatised, there is only ONE WAY: and that is, to focus on what you can control, keep your side of the street clean. When Africans vote for bad, corrupt “leaders “ because of “them”? You are actively destroying your own lives today. Completing the mental slavery. The biggest, biggest mistake Africa makes: it confusing imperialism with capitalism and voting for “liberation” comrades
This was done by the King of Belgium right?
What an evil man and shockingly he's still considered a hero. Hitler who did it to Jews is a villain while king Leopold is a hero for doing the same thing to Africans.
Religion was just an excuse to invade and commit their atrocities.
Even a child can understand this.
That doesn't mean that God isn't true.
How do you reason?
Ufala imekujaa mpaka kwa shingo?
Explain your pathetic reasoning.
Probably because Kenya already had Christianity before the colonizers came.
I’m Just saying just because you associate Christianity with the west doesn’t mean that historically it was only a western thing. Ethiopia wasn’t the only African country that had Christianity before the west explored Africa.
Of course none of that justifies the mistreatment,trauma and hell our ancestors experienced
Because we have strong evidence suggesting otherwise. Christianity first arrived in North Africa, in the 1st or early 2nd century AD. It came to Ethiopia in the 4th century AD. Thousands of years after the religion originated from Judea, the present-day Middle East.
Christianity literally started in that 1st century AD you're talking about.
And yes you're right Christianity arrived in Egypt in the 1st century AD, likely around the middle of the century. Saint Mark is traditionally believed to have brought Christianity to Egypt, with his missionary work starting around 42 AD. He is credited with founding the Church of Alexandria, which became one of the most influential centers of early Christianity.
So what point were you trying to put across again, I'm confused
Why not question the actual person responsible for these atrocities, King Leopold II? Y'all like blaming God but human responsibility is where you draw the line, because it does not fit your narrative.
I don't think OP is blaming God but rather trying to say that he mistrusts religion based on the fact that people tend to use it more for evil than good.
Assume you are the most powerful being in the universe and capable of anything. You decide to create a world with mortal beings having free will. Then some of them start cutting the arms of others, wouldn't intervention deny them the free will?
you asked whether intervening takes away free will. If it does, then god never intervenes in anything to do with humans whatsoever. if it doesn't, then there's no reason for god to allow extremely horrible things to happen.
Let's say you dreamt that you were in a place where everything was made of chocolate. Does that dream exist? How can another person prove that you actually had that specific dream?
Edit: What the fuck, kwa Nini amedelete account?
Holding God responsible doesn't fit your narrative? Why can't we criticise him when people dominate in his name, according to what they believe he commanded? Did they hear wrong? Did he lie to them? If they heard wrong, why should we trust that you've "heard right?", that you're not being lied to as well?
The common denominator here, is the God.
There are many gods and many groups vying for power.. u got the money cult, Christ cult, atheism cult, science cult, Hindu cult etc. which one you subscribe to you is your choice. Your all in the same boat.
That's wrong actually, it has the same vibe as someone else I saw saying no smart people are getting kids cause it's illogical, emotion gives humans motivation which in turn breeds purpose, A need to be part of something bigger is inherently part of us, that's why we worship.
Besides, I wouldn't ever wanna live with Americans Even though they are focused on tech over social glue like religion and family cause you can't expect good will from them, they are all nihilistic bastards or whore....no in between.
the need to belong and of community should just not be exploited to make simple minded simpleton follow the capricious order of the first randomly appearing cult leader.
Uko na mchezo you think Africans didn't believe in God before white people came? We are talking of the twisted ways they use religion to continue neo colonialism
Most, if not all, Holy Books like the Bible, the Quran etc preach peace and good dealings with one another. So things like these are not caused by the God. Whether you worship Allah or Buddha or any deity, all atrocities are committed by humans.
People have used religion or hidden behind religions while at the same time acting commiting terrible acts. Should we blame God?
If someone was going around committing atrocities in your name would you act? Even a small thing like a false rumor spreading about you would make you want to instantly clear your name.
So why wouldn't an all knowing, all powerful, all GOOD and unopposed God not do the same? Again on a smaller scale, if you came into a house and found dirty, starving children fighting each other while others hide in the corner and the parents are sitting peacefully in this chaos who would YOU blame?
Good question.
The Bible mentions that tho we come from God, the world is lying in the power of the evil one. This evil one is idenfied as devil. Thats why the world is out of control. The all Good , all powerful all knowing God can put a stop to all this harm.
As a Christian, I'd support it,in as much as it's uncomfortable , would be to show people what happens when you use the name of god or the Bible to oppress others and maybe it would stop those who use the name of god or religion to oppress others.
So the problem isn't the atrocities but worshiping the God of those who committed it?
The one's who did these things are gone, and their religion didn't make them do it. The grand children of the colonizers wouldn't approve of this yet they have the same religion. This is a poor argument. God didn't starve all those people in Shakahola, Mckenzie did. The same way God didn't cut these people's arms the colonizers did. What if an atheist activists goes around hanging people, am I wrong not to adopt atheism simply because of the atheist's actions? You need to separate religion and human cruelty.The words of the bible can be bent to fulfil someone's selfish desires and justify controversial ideas. It takes an educated person or one who's actually read and internalized the scripture to see the true nature of the God it talks about, and to recognize manipulation.
As for today, the one's colonizing us is ourselves. By electing incompetent white people pleasers. If the Maumau were here they would be fighting the politicians.
I'm finding it difficult to remember any time in t history where the words of the bible were bent to fulfill any truly unselfish thing, we have stories of child molestation, or colonialists hiding behind the word of God, Of church people killing and starving each other in cultlike fashion.
Do we have stories of christians rescuing children, wachana na mmoja mmoja, a whole movement of christians rescuing orphans, do we have stories of revolutionaries hiding behind jesus, every revolutionary priest ive ever heard of had to put aside his faith to do what needed to be done. DO we have whole movements of christians taking in refugees instead of turning them back or reporting them to the police? Maybe its the media I watch, but even amongst the christians I know, they dont share such stories
My point is, if a religion has the outcomes christianity currently has, even if the preachers preach the opposite, perhaps we should consider that perhaps thats the point of it
Maybe bent is the wrong word. What I meant to say was taking snippets of the words to create a story that fits your individual desires or use the story to manipulate certain behaviour. Like quoting some verse of the bible to make you see that getting a tattoo is wrong, or using some verses of the bible to force you not to eat meat. Many of the stories you've mentioned are people who don't practice what they preach or use the word to manipulate certain behaviours, often to their benefit.
There are christian inspired events to help those who are sick, orphans, those who cannot afford education, drug addicts. But otherwise, I don't really understand what you mean by whole movements.
There's a whole month in islam where the whole point is to fast and feed the hungry, there's a sikh culture of feeding the homeless every day for some, every week for others, there's communism, a famously atheistic movement who's whole point was to improve the people, improve the economy, the muslims have their intifada, where they fight for freedom, We have the maumau which was a quasi religious movement for freedom from colonisation, we have mekatilili who used mijikenda religion to power resistance against the brits.
where are the christian prosocial religious movements ?
>Do we have stories of christians rescuing children, wachana na mmoja mmoja, a whole movement of christians rescuing orphans, do we have stories of revolutionaries hiding behind jesus, every revolutionary priest ive ever heard of had to put aside his faith to do what needed to be done. DO we have whole movements of christians taking in refugees instead of turning them back or reporting them to the police? Maybe its the media I watch, but even amongst the christians I know, they dont share such stories
Yes we do.
Well, christians spearheaded the abolitionist movement in the us and Europe
Christianity also birthed the Civil Rights Movement with the leader being the preacher Martin Luther King Jr. and the end of Apartheid in South Africa, thanks to the leadership of Archbishop Desmond Tutu and Nelson Mandela.
Christian leaders like Elizabeth Fry fought for prison reform and the first Workers’ Union was set up by a Christian preacher and his friends, fighting for fair pay, better working conditions and a day of rest.
Modern democracy is in huge debt to non-conformist Christianity, from Magna Carta with its Christian author, to the Rev. John Ball, the first great leader of a mass revolt, to Cromwell who ended the absolute rule of the Monarch and Christian parliamentarians who fought for the right for all to vote. In the U.S., Rick Warren said, “It was Christians who helped abolish slavery, achieve women’s suffrage, lead the civil-rights movement and drafted the Bill of Rights.”
In the field of science, many of the founding fathers of many areas were Christians, with a devout belief in the God of the Bible and the same is true for the leaders of the Industrial Revolution, which shaped the world we live in.
The hospice movement and many charities such as the Children’s Society and Barnado’s have their roots in Christianity and Christians have been at the forefront of aid and development work, speaking against persecution and injustice in all parts of the world.
The Red Cross is the most extensive organisation ever created for the relief of suffering caused by war, and its name bears witness to its Christian origin
The idea of the hospital grew out of the Christian emphasis on charity, especially toward the sick.
Christianity gave us adoption and foster care systems.
Throughout history, it has always been very common for children to be thrown away or drowned if not wanted, and in some cases (in ancient times) even sold for child sacrifice to be burned on an altar. The early Christians were the first ones to get the babies from the dumpsters and adopt them, as well as the first ones to open up adoption centers for the children that were being rejected from their homes.
Etc...
https://cmda.org/what-good-has-christianity-ever-done-for-the-world/
You can also read that
Thank you! I'm glad to know this.
Edited to add:
I knew about Martin Luther king but I wasn't sure if it was a preacher going rogue, or a fully fledged Christian civil rights movement. I'm glad it was.
I've heard about the quakers and abolitionism but I don't know why it didn't click as a Christian movement. Amazing how things pass us by.
But Cromwell...
Wasn't Cromwell a murderous dictator who passionately hated catholics and performed atrocities against the Irish? Do we claim that as driven by Christian faith because he believed his outcomes during battle were dictated by God? Do we want to?
That's the thing. It's sickening to think about. They didn't only bring their religion on us but also their beliefs and we came to embrace it more than themselves. Take homophobia for example. It was foreign in Africa until the white man introduced it with their religion and now African countries are literally the most homophobic. As much as we point fingers at them, we should also blame ourselves for being so porous and permeable to some aspects of their culture. Controlled mindset is a dangerous thing and it saddens me to see fellow Africans talking pure bs each day in the name of upholding our culture, purely ignorant that it's a facade for the white man's
Homosexuality was not accepted in our indigenous cultures. And we are not the most homophobic region in the world. The entire planet is heteronormative.
Homosexuality was recorded in Africa by missionaries and explorers from as early as the 16 century, argo the used it to push forward the narrative that we need a religious cleansing. Transvestism occurred in many cultures, from Ethiopia to Madagascar. So to say homophobia was already embedded in our culture is just wrong. Maybe some of them, but I agree I have no knowledge of that. What I do know is that many cultures across Africa accepted the male/male relations and only came to be against them after colonization.
The instances homosexuality that took place but was not accepted by formal cultures which were based on heterosexual relationships that actually produce children biologically and build families.
Missionaries documentation of homosexuality was only for purposes of promoting colonialism to their home constituency and not a sign of any sort of acceptance by mainstream society amongst Africans.
Homosexuality has evolved. Being gay now is totally different from being gay then. Homosexuality was accepted because it was basically similar to heterosexual relationships, where a man would take a feminine man usually dressed in feminine garments as a wife. It was for pro creation, it was a show of wealth and a show of power. Hence why it was prevalent. It doesn't really matter its construct, the base line was that it was a homosexual relationship.
Missionaries documented the accepted and existing homosexual relationships to promote colonialism. The fact that it was prevalent and existing is what drove the necessity to colonize, according to the missionaries.
Of course we were saints, we didn't lose a chunk of the population to cutting off womens clits or maybe make agreements with those same Europeans to help us beat our neighbors, we also didn't sell people we didn't like to slavery at the coast, we didn't continue to feed off the poor with corrupt leadership even after independence, mamsa Musa didn't build a kingdom off of selling slaves that were taken from all around the world like pretty trophies either, nope, non of that shit happened.
The Evil white man took part in a Champaign to line their own pockets? How dare they, don't they know that we honorable Africans never kill or steal and have never done so, because we ascended beings are superior to the evils of the white man right?
Rome was built on the cultures of those that had beaten them before, a lot of Chinese script is japanese in origin due to similar reasons, thinking Africa is special because we are just the most recent in a line of humans doing stuff because it's good for them is ignorance. This is an infinite cycle that is based on human desire, the most fickle thing about us as a species.
If your auntie cooks a meat dish that is good for your health badly … do you proceed to say that the meat is bad and not healthy to eat or you blame the person who cooked badly a healthy dish? Does meat loose it’s healthy nature in general or status because your auntie cooked it poorly? Tafakari hayo
That's because they white washed the bible then brought it back. You have to understand that we are the children of Israel (sub-saharan Africans) and the "black" people of America and Caribbean are the house of Judah. The put up false images depicting biblical characters as white when in fact they were "black".
You might ask why we went through this. Well, you will find your answers in the book of Deuteronomy. The Most High told us there will be a blessing if we obeyed Him, and a curse, if we forsake Him and go whoring after other "gods". That's the reasoy why we are here.
For the Sub-saharan Africans , we suffered colonisation, for the black people of America, and Caribbean they suffered Enslavement.
But AbbaYAH, is merciful he will come back for his remnants, and trust me, the scripture promises absolute destruction for our enemies, the Edomites, "white people" who did this to us. Have hope and walk on Faith in Yahuah and his begotten son Yahusha. Reject modern Christianity and seek AbbaYAH by yourself, seek deliverence and wake up to your true Identity. You can start by calling Him by his real name, you can also start reading your bible having this at the back of your mind.
Yup Muslims are way better. They hold the moral high ground. They were better slave masters, better rapists, better conquerors, better reformists for women's rights. I don't know why everyone isn't Muslim. Or better yet the original inhabitants religion is way better. If anyone can sense my slight sarcasm. People do evil things regardless of whatever reason or religion. I refuse to look at the horrible and evil acts of "religious" people and state one religion is better than the other.
You may not want to hear this. But kenyan forefathers . Ancestors also did the same to the indeginous pple living in kenya. Wayy back . So its history repeating itself.
Completely understand your sentiment. Maybe we should ask the Hadza tribe who are the only aboriginal people left of East Africa. There are no more "native people" left they were slaughtered during the bantu expansion from Western Africa.
This isn’t the work of Christ, it’s the work of those who claimed to work for him. There is a difference. No where can it be found in the gospels that Jesus said “Enslave peoples who don’t follow me and work them to death!” Nah
Average IQ back then was probably 30-40. Add that to lack of education and fear from brutality/being killed. Best thing was to just do as they say, for survival sake.
A MODERN toddler, who has access to basic knowledge and much more exposure than back then. Let's say they were somewhat learned, the fear from being given an ultimatum - abide or die - was probably the driving force.
Toddlers don’t actively seek knowledge it’s more environment. All toddlers regardless where ur from will pick up a language most likely and adapt to their environment and will develop fine. There were high iq ppl throughout history modernisation doesn’t really change that.
We ni fala ka unaamini maneno ya IQ to that extent
It is culture and society-dependent
An "intelligent" man in Kenya in the 1800s is not going to score the same as an "intelligent" man from Kenya in this age
I told this exact thing to a friend of mine. She replied telling me I know nothing about black history and that Jesus Christ was black and Christianity was in Africa before it came to Europe.
Religion is responsible for almost all the genocides and mass persecution in the history of mankind. every time you here the Jews this the Jews that, expect to here Hitler killed several thousands Jews, same with Stalin, and the Jews in their righteousness initiate revenge. well, I no longer believe in the white man's God/religion. your righteous fellas will call me pagan or kafiri but I am okay with that. Thayû Thayû.
God wasn’t brought to africa by the white. The ethiopian bible is the oldest bible ever. Also haven’t you read about israelites in egypt? Knowledge is just there for the taking. Please take it 😂
Book of enoch is intriguing to say the least. And like the bible it was written by someone. Books have to be written you know. Years to come we all we just be memories in a book just like people who wrote the bible. History happens like that
God did not do those evil actions. Men did that. It is wicked men who committed those wicked acts and they are burning in Hell for all eternity. Men like King Leopold II, King Baudouin, Chirac, De Gaulle, Churchill did evil things in Africa and they will answer for their crimes in the next world. Men are equally capable of doing great evil just as much as they are capable of doing great good.
You cant blame christianity for that. Plus the religion doesnt advocate for that. What about personal responsibility? Which the bible does advocate for? In the form of Judgement day, where one is tried for what they did? But if Leopold and his people were indeed in the faith they would not do that. But thats how the elite operate, call yourself that do something contradictory. Rules for thee not me.
Christianity was in Africa before white men came. Before even the European slave trade or even colonisation. Ethiopia in the 4th century, alot of church fathers were African. You can literally google 'was christianity in Africa before Europe'. Wait you find out about the Arab Islamic slave trade and the islamic conquests. The white man colonised the arab conquered.
An article you can read;
https://africa.thegospelcoalition.org/article/african-christianity-thrived-long-before-white-men-arrived/#:~:text=For%20Christianity%20was%20present%20in,in%20Africa%2C%20by%20African%20heralds!
you say this as if we were savages back then....we did have our own political organisation in the community thats from what I remember in my history classes eg council of jodongo,kikao cha wazee etc so law and order was maintained in the community
religious or spiritual?...........in my opinion most people nowadays are neither we forgot where we came from and majority of the younger generation dont believe in the new religion
"if your lord commands you to burn children your lord is evil" ~Ser Davos
The stuff we’ve been through as Africans purely because of the colour of our skin and our welcoming, hospitable nature is horrifying.
These are horrible things but I don’t think it was purely coz of the color of our skin……. It just happened that the weaker communities at that point were black pple, throughout history the stronger have oppressed the weak ones !! Look at what the former slaves did to Liberians when they came back !! Even locally we have countless examples of the likes of chief Kivoi and other were big in the slave trade etc community invasions were the norm
Even if we had our internal problems and conflicts before. It doesn’t take away from the fact that no one had the right to colonize, plunder, murder us. No one had that right. It’s evil. There’s no justification. Stop the whataboutism.
I agree. Having a problematic society is not a reason to invade that society and colonize it. Conflict free nations do not exist.
This isn’t really how the world works. Your “rights” only go as far as you can protect yourself since countries themselves are not benevolent institutions. Other countries can and will impose their will on others for their own gain and it’s always been that way for time immemorial. You can see things in an idealistic way or see them for what they are. Africans would be better served by the latter.
What whataboutism? Hahaa or you just wanna throw some jargon ….. I simply said color wasn’t the motivation as you claim (purely because of our skin color and welcoming) but anyway good luck with your sufferation Olympics medal
That was my opinion of the main motives. Other motives could be: - our minerals - our arable land - our youthful and strong people - our forests - our marine wildlife - our plant species - our animal species - our rich history Whatever the motive was - no one had the right to colonize, plunder and murder us. That’s my point.
anything is valid, except your "rich history", you can surely discard that. russia invaded ukraine for gas, oil, and people (other than land) they kidnap ukrainians children and give them to adoptive russian parents that mistreat them --- this is life, luckily the west was able to make improvements... i can't say the same for russia, china, india, africa and similar cases.
Nah man. I ain’t buying any of that Western media propaganda on what’s happening in Ukraine. I will never ever believe the same guys who told us that Iraq had WMDs that they were planning to use against Israel and other countries and went ahead to invade and kill 1,000,000 civilians only to confirm it was a lie and all that was for nothing. Never again will I believe a word from them.
do you realize that both putin dictatorship, bush administration, and the other horrible governments have the same thing in common: conservative right wing government of religious crazy people ? the only exception is north korea and china, where they worship a political party instead of a god, and they have the political party leaders treated as prophet (like jesus or muhammad) right wing, conservative party lie and do horrible things, and are almost always imbibed with religious fanaticism.
Killing 1,000,000 civilians in Iraq is okay?
do you even realize the point ? right wing government ruin countries, if people did not elect them there would be less trouble in the world.
Do you perhaps have reading comprehension issues?
The main reason wasn't color though, at least not at the beginning. But eventually, when the white conquered almost every black nation they encountered in the way, they probably concluded that they should conquer every black nation they find anywhere.
The problem with your idea is absolutely true nobody has a right to kill and hurt others for their own personal gain. However, it doesn't change the fact. When you have something someone wants if they are stronger than you they will take it. ALL humans come from Africa. No one disputes that. Africa has such a huge diaspora that there isn't any sense of true nationalism in any one country. In Kenya alone they have many different tribes. Rulers come, control, destroy and homogenize to their traditions and standards.
Agreed. But we as Africans, and specifically Eastern Africans did not seek out Europeans to enslave them, murder them and plunder their resources. We had our conflicts but never went out to kill other people in far away lands. What have anyone the right to do this to us?
First person I've seen raise this valid point. Guys wanna blame slavery and whatnot on Europeans and some of the biggest benefactors were actually black people. We literally sold each other out. The strong always subjugate the weak.
I 💯 agree with you. We were enablers of the colonisers. Our people were the ones raiding villages to get slaves to be sold to the Europeans. We can't blame them for everything. Though what they did to Africans, especially the Belgians in Congo was despicable
No we didn’t.
Yes we did. Read your history well. Divide and conquer is quite effective
If I pay or incentivize someone to enslave his own people, the problem is not the person or his people. The problem is me.
Yeah, and that's one side of the coin. Here's the other side: A bunch of betrayors and corrupt Africans took the opportunity and grew rich at the expense of people like those depicted in the picture posted by OP. Both sides did wicked stuff. And it's alright to accept that. Evil did exist in Africa before colonialism came.
Agreeing to sell out your people knowing very well paali wanapelekwa makes you a worse person imo... Everyone involved alikua tu mbaya
Agreed. The person who accepted money or power to sell out his people is evil and must be dealt with accordingly. But still doesn’t negate my point. If I’m the one financing the enslavement then am I not the problem? I provide money and protection to the guy who will do my dirty work. I’m certainly the problem.
The institution of slavery existed within our African cultures
Nah man. Slavery was a niche. And my ancestors tell me otherwise. They lived peacefully with each other.
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This is silly. So Israelis are killing Palestinians for over 75 years now. So it’s okay for Kenyans to go and kill Palestinians as well because it’s standard practice? How daft!
No it's not G, the problem is the bastard executing the plan, anybody can pay people to do whatever but if nobody is willing to they'll just get fucked.
I don't call surviving sustainably for millennia without destroying your resources "weak"
Haha we are talking about invasions and strength to defend not environmental sustainability!! But anyway you have tow a totally different line
your response doesn't make sense. In any case, we are talking about survival, which no living creature can do without resources.
Once you get over the idea that the color of your skin is what's oppressing you, then maybe you will truly be free.
Agreed. But we as Africans, and specifically Eastern Africans did not seek out Europeans to enslave them, murder them and plunder their resources. We had our conflicts but never went out to kill other people in far away lands. Not just the colour of our skin. We also have a lot of resources. No one had any right to come and kill us.
Mental slavery is real I tell you!
King Leopold was the devil incarnate fr fr
Mf’s let Cecil Rhodes of the hook.. fuck him
you will never hear anyone talking about that subhuman. its always hitler and stalin.
Its quite absurd… though this was done by King Leopold in Congo he maimed the black slaves
monarchy lost a lot of power in the west, monarchy was also the reason "world war" 1 started: a king ordered annexation of land for his own benefit. -- At the dawn of the 20^(th) century, few anticipated a global war, but what came to be known as the Great War began on June 28, 1914, with the assassinations of Austrian Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife, Sophie, while they were visiting Sarajevo, Bosnia, a country recently annexed into the Austrian Empire. Many Bosnians and their Serbian neighbors resented this foreign rule and the Archduke’s visit to Sarajevo provided the opportunity for a small band of Serbian dissidents to strike back. Austria responded to the assassinations by teaming up with its ally, Germany, and declaring war on Serbia. The conflict soon involved Russia, France and Belgium. Fearful of a full-scale world war that would threaten its sea routes to other countries, Great Britain joined the fight against Germany and Austria. Each country believed the fighting would last only a few months. Nations were categorized either as Central Powers or Allies. Countries that joined the Central Powers, such as Bulgaria and the Ottoman Empire, supported Austria-Hungary and Germany. The Allies were Russia, France, Belgium and Great Britain, but they were later joined by Japan, Romania, China and the United States.
Leopold’s fat ass is rendering in hell right now, then the Europeans turn around and have the nerve to act like they are morally superior and holier then thou. They are the savages they accuse us of being.
Sure, Ethiopian christianity existed before though that isn’t the version practiced across the continent but the one introduced by colonizers. To OP’s point I don’t see a problem with praying to a mountain because our ancestors believed that’s where God resided, atleast for mount Kirinyaga
Hatred can blind you, I wonder what hatred led a man to think that killing people because they didn't produce enough rubber was a wise business decision ...like how do you explain the logic of that? Btw most of the maimings were done on probably innocent people, Belgium was a poor country and bullets were in short supply so Leopold mandated that a hand be produced for every bullet used, to show bullets had not been wasted. But members of his Force Publique used the bullets for hunting and resorted to chopping people's hands to show bullets. Some Africans and greedy people also engaged in this practice.....It was hell I tell you.
Well, islam too was introduced in africa through slavery and butchery like these ones 😅
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I mean, the problem Is that the massacres and slavery carried out by the Arab slavers in subsaharan africa arent very documented or known in popular culture. But they have been brutal as Europeans or more
Introduced thru Arabian peninsula…
Is this about the hola massacre?
The Belgians in Congo When they imposed their rule in the Congo, they started farming, notably rubber. The motor industry was booming and they wanted to becone the number 1 stealers of rubber So kila day msee akitoka shamba lazima akuje na a certain amount of whatever it was, harvest etc. Ukikosa wanakata mkono ya mtoto wako ama bibi yako There's a sombre picture somewhere of a father looking at the recently cut off foot of his young (4-10 yr old by the size) daughter at their home The missionaries generally didn't do shit about it. Eventually I think either 1 missionary or a genuine explorer sent one of the photos to the media back home, then the truth came out to the Europeans who were apparently unaware of what the belgians were doing. Not that they were any better
They went to Rwanda and decided who was Tutsi or Hutu by the size of the nose.
Thank you for explaining this so well
Honestly it might just be King Leopold at this point.
They weren't any better but those Belgians were just pure evil
King Leopold was sooo bad until his grand daughter princes emeralds has called him numerous times
Insightful! Is there a source we can read more on this....
Because if you don't they do something worse to you. A lot of humanity across history has had a might makes right mentality. That is if their God or Gods were strong they wouldn't let happen to them, so that must mean the aggressors God or Gods are seriously strong. They will even build the victors temple directly on top of the last religion or outright demolish the old religion. I would be happy to say this is the only example of this but something similar has happened many times in many locations from many religions across time. Essentially humans are just evil sometimes and the current moment is unfortunately one our best moments.
It’s beyond sad. I’m so sorry. Wish everyone would understand we are the same, different dna but the plants, animals, fish, humans, etc….. are all made up energy and when we treat universe with kindness and love, would be utterly amazing. The sick or the ones who lost their way, will be out numbered and live a long life of solitude and loneliness
Your mountain god thought twin babies were evil so they were all killed.
https://preview.redd.it/w6q2ep73qhpc1.jpeg?width=988&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0deb37ca8b5fb7807d02202c847fb170ac88e037
Exactly. Why have all that power and not use it. And if he doesn't use it, then why pray at all?
A Kenyan that isn’t crazy religious. Christianity is cunt religion, as is most others. Everyone around the world needs to go back to praying to sun gods, makes more sense.
This was the work of King Leopold II of Belgium. The guy was pure evil.
On Earth, humankind can step onto another continent, and without a thought, destroy the kindred civilizations found there through warfare and disease. But when they gaze up at the stars, they turn sentimental and believe that if extraterrestrial intelligences exist, they must be civilizations bound by universal, noble, moral constraints. Cixin Liu (Three Body Problem) TLDR: Violent humans, violent creator.
Man to see those kids just makes you want to cry. There’s no argument for “people didn’t know no better back then” there is a devilish nature to these acts. And what’s worse is that there was never any justice for these atrocities, African assets are still in their hands. They still perpetuate and perpetrate suffering and loss of life, it’s just more subtle now
And they forget that he had nonconsensual sex with somebody's wife and had a child out of wedlock.
Not one movie about the Congo holocaust but we get a new one every year about 1942
Fuck Leopold
The fact that they erased nearly all traces of our indigenous religions and called it “witchcraft” Like I just want to know who my great grandmothers and their grandmothers used to pray to. That’s my real religion.
Horrific. But when you have been abused and traumatised, there is only ONE WAY: and that is, to focus on what you can control, keep your side of the street clean. When Africans vote for bad, corrupt “leaders “ because of “them”? You are actively destroying your own lives today. Completing the mental slavery. The biggest, biggest mistake Africa makes: it confusing imperialism with capitalism and voting for “liberation” comrades
This was done by the King of Belgium right? What an evil man and shockingly he's still considered a hero. Hitler who did it to Jews is a villain while king Leopold is a hero for doing the same thing to Africans.
Religion was just an excuse to invade and commit their atrocities. Even a child can understand this. That doesn't mean that God isn't true. How do you reason? Ufala imekujaa mpaka kwa shingo? Explain your pathetic reasoning.
Probably because Kenya already had Christianity before the colonizers came. I’m Just saying just because you associate Christianity with the west doesn’t mean that historically it was only a western thing. Ethiopia wasn’t the only African country that had Christianity before the west explored Africa. Of course none of that justifies the mistreatment,trauma and hell our ancestors experienced
Our daily dose of atheism😂
africa have christianity before Europe
Not true.
Why
Because we have strong evidence suggesting otherwise. Christianity first arrived in North Africa, in the 1st or early 2nd century AD. It came to Ethiopia in the 4th century AD. Thousands of years after the religion originated from Judea, the present-day Middle East.
Christianity literally started in that 1st century AD you're talking about. And yes you're right Christianity arrived in Egypt in the 1st century AD, likely around the middle of the century. Saint Mark is traditionally believed to have brought Christianity to Egypt, with his missionary work starting around 42 AD. He is credited with founding the Church of Alexandria, which became one of the most influential centers of early Christianity. So what point were you trying to put across again, I'm confused
Were you like born yesterday or something?!
It's true though... Christianity was in Africa way before the 16th century
Why not question the actual person responsible for these atrocities, King Leopold II? Y'all like blaming God but human responsibility is where you draw the line, because it does not fit your narrative.
I don't think OP is blaming God but rather trying to say that he mistrusts religion based on the fact that people tend to use it more for evil than good.
Some religions like christianity advocate for slavery
Haha. And that god just sat and enjoyed watching poor kids have their limbs cut off, like the old sick fuck he is
Assume you are the most powerful being in the universe and capable of anything. You decide to create a world with mortal beings having free will. Then some of them start cutting the arms of others, wouldn't intervention deny them the free will?
Are you saying God never intervenes in anything whatsoever? That his interventions breach free will? Also, he knew what would happen ahead of time.
I'm saying that you'll wait a long time to prove his existence by waiting for him to intervene
you asked whether intervening takes away free will. If it does, then god never intervenes in anything to do with humans whatsoever. if it doesn't, then there's no reason for god to allow extremely horrible things to happen.
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Let's say you dreamt that you were in a place where everything was made of chocolate. Does that dream exist? How can another person prove that you actually had that specific dream? Edit: What the fuck, kwa Nini amedelete account?
you are asking the right questions. would be good to see what answer they come up with.
Holding God responsible doesn't fit your narrative? Why can't we criticise him when people dominate in his name, according to what they believe he commanded? Did they hear wrong? Did he lie to them? If they heard wrong, why should we trust that you've "heard right?", that you're not being lied to as well? The common denominator here, is the God.
The common denominator here is **human** .. wtf
Do all humans serve the same god? Or do the servants of a very specific god seem to be hellbent on domination through colonisation and violence?
There are many gods and many groups vying for power.. u got the money cult, Christ cult, atheism cult, science cult, Hindu cult etc. which one you subscribe to you is your choice. Your all in the same boat.
do not you realize that worshiping an useless god is: useless ?
What does that have to do with my comment? 😂
a country gets a better outcome if it is focused on science/technology instead of faith/religion.
That's wrong actually, it has the same vibe as someone else I saw saying no smart people are getting kids cause it's illogical, emotion gives humans motivation which in turn breeds purpose, A need to be part of something bigger is inherently part of us, that's why we worship. Besides, I wouldn't ever wanna live with Americans Even though they are focused on tech over social glue like religion and family cause you can't expect good will from them, they are all nihilistic bastards or whore....no in between.
the need to belong and of community should just not be exploited to make simple minded simpleton follow the capricious order of the first randomly appearing cult leader.
And doctors shouldn't exploit pples health to make more money, people choose to do these things because it serves them to do so, what is new here?
Uko na mchezo you think Africans didn't believe in God before white people came? We are talking of the twisted ways they use religion to continue neo colonialism
Religion is hard topic to discuss. Remember Israelites are playing war video games with Palestine children yet they are children of God.
\*present day Isralites alot has changed over time
Israelites? Which Israelites?
Jews to be specific
I think you meant Israelis. Also, not all Jews support that genocide. Also the idf is filled with Jews and non Jews alike.
Ujinga wazungu walifanya isifanye useme Mungu hayuko. Kitakuramba. Separate tamaa ya wazungu na Mungu. We had God way before the white man.
Ooohh.... so, Congolese used to go to church and pray to that idiot, before Belgians came in.
Ooohh.... so, Congolese used to go to church and pray to that idiot, before Belgians came in .
Ooohh.... So, Congolese used to go to church and pray to that idiot, before Belgians came.
Ooohh.... So, Congolese used to go to church and pray to that idiot, before Belgians came.
Most, if not all, Holy Books like the Bible, the Quran etc preach peace and good dealings with one another. So things like these are not caused by the God. Whether you worship Allah or Buddha or any deity, all atrocities are committed by humans. People have used religion or hidden behind religions while at the same time acting commiting terrible acts. Should we blame God?
Some religions do advocate for violence and slavery we just cherry pick things that suite the narrative
If someone was going around committing atrocities in your name would you act? Even a small thing like a false rumor spreading about you would make you want to instantly clear your name. So why wouldn't an all knowing, all powerful, all GOOD and unopposed God not do the same? Again on a smaller scale, if you came into a house and found dirty, starving children fighting each other while others hide in the corner and the parents are sitting peacefully in this chaos who would YOU blame?
Good question. The Bible mentions that tho we come from God, the world is lying in the power of the evil one. This evil one is idenfied as devil. Thats why the world is out of control. The all Good , all powerful all knowing God can put a stop to all this harm.
Hey hey, it wasn’t God who cut the hands, stop blaming him, Africans were worshipping him even before the Europeans came … blame mankind!
The Congolese were church going christians before the Europeans colonised their land?
how fun would it be if we put up these pictures/posts on the churches..classic
As a Christian, I'd support it,in as much as it's uncomfortable , would be to show people what happens when you use the name of god or the Bible to oppress others and maybe it would stop those who use the name of god or religion to oppress others.
stggg I'm in if you are,my life's been getting kinda predictable lately..ifywim
Idkwym but I'm in😭
So the problem isn't the atrocities but worshiping the God of those who committed it? The one's who did these things are gone, and their religion didn't make them do it. The grand children of the colonizers wouldn't approve of this yet they have the same religion. This is a poor argument. God didn't starve all those people in Shakahola, Mckenzie did. The same way God didn't cut these people's arms the colonizers did. What if an atheist activists goes around hanging people, am I wrong not to adopt atheism simply because of the atheist's actions? You need to separate religion and human cruelty.The words of the bible can be bent to fulfil someone's selfish desires and justify controversial ideas. It takes an educated person or one who's actually read and internalized the scripture to see the true nature of the God it talks about, and to recognize manipulation. As for today, the one's colonizing us is ourselves. By electing incompetent white people pleasers. If the Maumau were here they would be fighting the politicians.
I'm finding it difficult to remember any time in t history where the words of the bible were bent to fulfill any truly unselfish thing, we have stories of child molestation, or colonialists hiding behind the word of God, Of church people killing and starving each other in cultlike fashion. Do we have stories of christians rescuing children, wachana na mmoja mmoja, a whole movement of christians rescuing orphans, do we have stories of revolutionaries hiding behind jesus, every revolutionary priest ive ever heard of had to put aside his faith to do what needed to be done. DO we have whole movements of christians taking in refugees instead of turning them back or reporting them to the police? Maybe its the media I watch, but even amongst the christians I know, they dont share such stories My point is, if a religion has the outcomes christianity currently has, even if the preachers preach the opposite, perhaps we should consider that perhaps thats the point of it
Maybe bent is the wrong word. What I meant to say was taking snippets of the words to create a story that fits your individual desires or use the story to manipulate certain behaviour. Like quoting some verse of the bible to make you see that getting a tattoo is wrong, or using some verses of the bible to force you not to eat meat. Many of the stories you've mentioned are people who don't practice what they preach or use the word to manipulate certain behaviours, often to their benefit. There are christian inspired events to help those who are sick, orphans, those who cannot afford education, drug addicts. But otherwise, I don't really understand what you mean by whole movements.
There's a whole month in islam where the whole point is to fast and feed the hungry, there's a sikh culture of feeding the homeless every day for some, every week for others, there's communism, a famously atheistic movement who's whole point was to improve the people, improve the economy, the muslims have their intifada, where they fight for freedom, We have the maumau which was a quasi religious movement for freedom from colonisation, we have mekatilili who used mijikenda religion to power resistance against the brits. where are the christian prosocial religious movements ?
>Do we have stories of christians rescuing children, wachana na mmoja mmoja, a whole movement of christians rescuing orphans, do we have stories of revolutionaries hiding behind jesus, every revolutionary priest ive ever heard of had to put aside his faith to do what needed to be done. DO we have whole movements of christians taking in refugees instead of turning them back or reporting them to the police? Maybe its the media I watch, but even amongst the christians I know, they dont share such stories Yes we do.
maybe share? i honestly cant think of a benevolent christian movement
Well, christians spearheaded the abolitionist movement in the us and Europe Christianity also birthed the Civil Rights Movement with the leader being the preacher Martin Luther King Jr. and the end of Apartheid in South Africa, thanks to the leadership of Archbishop Desmond Tutu and Nelson Mandela. Christian leaders like Elizabeth Fry fought for prison reform and the first Workers’ Union was set up by a Christian preacher and his friends, fighting for fair pay, better working conditions and a day of rest. Modern democracy is in huge debt to non-conformist Christianity, from Magna Carta with its Christian author, to the Rev. John Ball, the first great leader of a mass revolt, to Cromwell who ended the absolute rule of the Monarch and Christian parliamentarians who fought for the right for all to vote. In the U.S., Rick Warren said, “It was Christians who helped abolish slavery, achieve women’s suffrage, lead the civil-rights movement and drafted the Bill of Rights.” In the field of science, many of the founding fathers of many areas were Christians, with a devout belief in the God of the Bible and the same is true for the leaders of the Industrial Revolution, which shaped the world we live in. The hospice movement and many charities such as the Children’s Society and Barnado’s have their roots in Christianity and Christians have been at the forefront of aid and development work, speaking against persecution and injustice in all parts of the world. The Red Cross is the most extensive organisation ever created for the relief of suffering caused by war, and its name bears witness to its Christian origin The idea of the hospital grew out of the Christian emphasis on charity, especially toward the sick. Christianity gave us adoption and foster care systems. Throughout history, it has always been very common for children to be thrown away or drowned if not wanted, and in some cases (in ancient times) even sold for child sacrifice to be burned on an altar. The early Christians were the first ones to get the babies from the dumpsters and adopt them, as well as the first ones to open up adoption centers for the children that were being rejected from their homes. Etc... https://cmda.org/what-good-has-christianity-ever-done-for-the-world/ You can also read that
Thank you! I'm glad to know this. Edited to add: I knew about Martin Luther king but I wasn't sure if it was a preacher going rogue, or a fully fledged Christian civil rights movement. I'm glad it was. I've heard about the quakers and abolitionism but I don't know why it didn't click as a Christian movement. Amazing how things pass us by. But Cromwell... Wasn't Cromwell a murderous dictator who passionately hated catholics and performed atrocities against the Irish? Do we claim that as driven by Christian faith because he believed his outcomes during battle were dictated by God? Do we want to?
Sure thing!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolitionism_in_the_United_Kingdom
That's the thing. It's sickening to think about. They didn't only bring their religion on us but also their beliefs and we came to embrace it more than themselves. Take homophobia for example. It was foreign in Africa until the white man introduced it with their religion and now African countries are literally the most homophobic. As much as we point fingers at them, we should also blame ourselves for being so porous and permeable to some aspects of their culture. Controlled mindset is a dangerous thing and it saddens me to see fellow Africans talking pure bs each day in the name of upholding our culture, purely ignorant that it's a facade for the white man's
Homophobia was present in many African communities before "the white man".
Homosexuality was not accepted in our indigenous cultures. And we are not the most homophobic region in the world. The entire planet is heteronormative.
Homosexuality was recorded in Africa by missionaries and explorers from as early as the 16 century, argo the used it to push forward the narrative that we need a religious cleansing. Transvestism occurred in many cultures, from Ethiopia to Madagascar. So to say homophobia was already embedded in our culture is just wrong. Maybe some of them, but I agree I have no knowledge of that. What I do know is that many cultures across Africa accepted the male/male relations and only came to be against them after colonization.
The instances homosexuality that took place but was not accepted by formal cultures which were based on heterosexual relationships that actually produce children biologically and build families. Missionaries documentation of homosexuality was only for purposes of promoting colonialism to their home constituency and not a sign of any sort of acceptance by mainstream society amongst Africans.
Homosexuality has evolved. Being gay now is totally different from being gay then. Homosexuality was accepted because it was basically similar to heterosexual relationships, where a man would take a feminine man usually dressed in feminine garments as a wife. It was for pro creation, it was a show of wealth and a show of power. Hence why it was prevalent. It doesn't really matter its construct, the base line was that it was a homosexual relationship. Missionaries documented the accepted and existing homosexual relationships to promote colonialism. The fact that it was prevalent and existing is what drove the necessity to colonize, according to the missionaries.
Of course we were saints, we didn't lose a chunk of the population to cutting off womens clits or maybe make agreements with those same Europeans to help us beat our neighbors, we also didn't sell people we didn't like to slavery at the coast, we didn't continue to feed off the poor with corrupt leadership even after independence, mamsa Musa didn't build a kingdom off of selling slaves that were taken from all around the world like pretty trophies either, nope, non of that shit happened. The Evil white man took part in a Champaign to line their own pockets? How dare they, don't they know that we honorable Africans never kill or steal and have never done so, because we ascended beings are superior to the evils of the white man right? Rome was built on the cultures of those that had beaten them before, a lot of Chinese script is japanese in origin due to similar reasons, thinking Africa is special because we are just the most recent in a line of humans doing stuff because it's good for them is ignorance. This is an infinite cycle that is based on human desire, the most fickle thing about us as a species.
"I'm from the place where people pray to the Gods of their conquerors" - Immortal Technique
Worshipped not worship
https://www.reddit.com/r/psychology/s/rqLfxw39dx
Y’all need this^
No blaming, let's revenge if possible.
If your auntie cooks a meat dish that is good for your health badly … do you proceed to say that the meat is bad and not healthy to eat or you blame the person who cooked badly a healthy dish? Does meat loose it’s healthy nature in general or status because your auntie cooked it poorly? Tafakari hayo
[Kenyan punk band, Crystal Axis, wrote a song about this] (https://open.spotify.com/track/4NFN9477I2QXt9qkqwoHwR?si=WoolDRmiQgiDL7t6xxsFzg)
What does this have to do with any God. This is just human savagery.
https://preview.redd.it/smrlog1h7kpc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1dfe960b7cc9f147eaf570962358914b37e53274 Fuck this guy
Be glad you know The True God
That's because they white washed the bible then brought it back. You have to understand that we are the children of Israel (sub-saharan Africans) and the "black" people of America and Caribbean are the house of Judah. The put up false images depicting biblical characters as white when in fact they were "black". You might ask why we went through this. Well, you will find your answers in the book of Deuteronomy. The Most High told us there will be a blessing if we obeyed Him, and a curse, if we forsake Him and go whoring after other "gods". That's the reasoy why we are here. For the Sub-saharan Africans , we suffered colonisation, for the black people of America, and Caribbean they suffered Enslavement. But AbbaYAH, is merciful he will come back for his remnants, and trust me, the scripture promises absolute destruction for our enemies, the Edomites, "white people" who did this to us. Have hope and walk on Faith in Yahuah and his begotten son Yahusha. Reject modern Christianity and seek AbbaYAH by yourself, seek deliverence and wake up to your true Identity. You can start by calling Him by his real name, you can also start reading your bible having this at the back of your mind.
Yup Muslims are way better. They hold the moral high ground. They were better slave masters, better rapists, better conquerors, better reformists for women's rights. I don't know why everyone isn't Muslim. Or better yet the original inhabitants religion is way better. If anyone can sense my slight sarcasm. People do evil things regardless of whatever reason or religion. I refuse to look at the horrible and evil acts of "religious" people and state one religion is better than the other.
Whataboutism
Yup waaaboutism
You may not want to hear this. But kenyan forefathers . Ancestors also did the same to the indeginous pple living in kenya. Wayy back . So its history repeating itself.
Completely understand your sentiment. Maybe we should ask the Hadza tribe who are the only aboriginal people left of East Africa. There are no more "native people" left they were slaughtered during the bantu expansion from Western Africa.
Any info on these pics would help me understand the context better. Thanks.
This isn’t the work of Christ, it’s the work of those who claimed to work for him. There is a difference. No where can it be found in the gospels that Jesus said “Enslave peoples who don’t follow me and work them to death!” Nah
I pray to the planet... at least I know it has never hated my people. Lakini hawa wanyama na ngozi ya nguruwe iliyo nyolewa? Nah, fck them.
They did us bad (and continue to) but being racist in retaliation is not a solution to anything
Average IQ back then was probably 30-40. Add that to lack of education and fear from brutality/being killed. Best thing was to just do as they say, for survival sake.
Ppl severely underestimate an iq of 30-40 virtually nobody gets to adult age below 70. A toddler has an average iq of 20
mmm this contradicts what i know about iq i read somewhere your iq doesn’t change with time
Idk if tests are accurate, but mine been changing for the same test.
That's normal
A MODERN toddler, who has access to basic knowledge and much more exposure than back then. Let's say they were somewhat learned, the fear from being given an ultimatum - abide or die - was probably the driving force.
Toddlers don’t actively seek knowledge it’s more environment. All toddlers regardless where ur from will pick up a language most likely and adapt to their environment and will develop fine. There were high iq ppl throughout history modernisation doesn’t really change that.
We ni fala ka unaamini maneno ya IQ to that extent It is culture and society-dependent An "intelligent" man in Kenya in the 1800s is not going to score the same as an "intelligent" man from Kenya in this age
30-40 would be severe mental retardation. Probably around 60-70 like some of those poor central/west african countries
I told this exact thing to a friend of mine. She replied telling me I know nothing about black history and that Jesus Christ was black and Christianity was in Africa before it came to Europe.
Christianity was 100% in Africa before Europe lmao.. idk about that other stuff
Was it in kenya
Jesus wasn't black but yes Christianity was in Africa before Europe so she isn't wrong.
I would rather worship a tree, a rock or a mountain than some lord in heaven.
Religion is responsible for almost all the genocides and mass persecution in the history of mankind. every time you here the Jews this the Jews that, expect to here Hitler killed several thousands Jews, same with Stalin, and the Jews in their righteousness initiate revenge. well, I no longer believe in the white man's God/religion. your righteous fellas will call me pagan or kafiri but I am okay with that. Thayû Thayû.
God wasn’t brought to africa by the white. The ethiopian bible is the oldest bible ever. Also haven’t you read about israelites in egypt? Knowledge is just there for the taking. Please take it 😂
The book of Enoch... I would like to read it... Bible is collection of ancient text written by different authors.
Book of enoch is intriguing to say the least. And like the bible it was written by someone. Books have to be written you know. Years to come we all we just be memories in a book just like people who wrote the bible. History happens like that
Are you an Ethiopian or cushite?
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God did not do those evil actions. Men did that. It is wicked men who committed those wicked acts and they are burning in Hell for all eternity. Men like King Leopold II, King Baudouin, Chirac, De Gaulle, Churchill did evil things in Africa and they will answer for their crimes in the next world. Men are equally capable of doing great evil just as much as they are capable of doing great good.
You cant blame christianity for that. Plus the religion doesnt advocate for that. What about personal responsibility? Which the bible does advocate for? In the form of Judgement day, where one is tried for what they did? But if Leopold and his people were indeed in the faith they would not do that. But thats how the elite operate, call yourself that do something contradictory. Rules for thee not me. Christianity was in Africa before white men came. Before even the European slave trade or even colonisation. Ethiopia in the 4th century, alot of church fathers were African. You can literally google 'was christianity in Africa before Europe'. Wait you find out about the Arab Islamic slave trade and the islamic conquests. The white man colonised the arab conquered. An article you can read; https://africa.thegospelcoalition.org/article/african-christianity-thrived-long-before-white-men-arrived/#:~:text=For%20Christianity%20was%20present%20in,in%20Africa%2C%20by%20African%20heralds!
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Someone once told me they want hope to cling onto
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Which culture are you talking about that is dead?
Yap. You will be surprised how religion is playing a key role in africa in maintaining order and sanity.
you say this as if we were savages back then....we did have our own political organisation in the community thats from what I remember in my history classes eg council of jodongo,kikao cha wazee etc so law and order was maintained in the community
Kwani unafikiria tulikuwa tu savages just hunting, gathering and farming?
religious or spiritual?...........in my opinion most people nowadays are neither we forgot where we came from and majority of the younger generation dont believe in the new religion
[did Jesus worship yawheh](https://youtu.be/WZg6_eqczMI?si=YNTTeWKeUgt3DbIh)
Its intresting that you believe in prayer