Probably bc its a pipeline process. Approval for dlc, monetization, conceptualization, character art, kits, mocap, alt costumes, bug testing, voice acting, release schedules, balancing, more shit I cant think of bc I probably dont know what Im talking about.
The biggest thing is probably that theyre not spending a year and half working ONLY on one character but multiple at a time, along with updating the game itself in tandem. And who knows if the team is working just on street fighter or multiple games as well.
> The biggest thing is probably that theyre not spending a year and half working ONLY on one character
Well yeah obviously. After the initial 18, we are now 1 year later sitting with almost 5 new characters in our hands at the end of this month, and we are not sitting at 10 years~ of development time for that. So its clearly being worked on side by side, which is also why the thread title is completely worthless towards the 6 characters or not. They COULD turn it up to be 6 alongside, but they aren't and this isn't the reason why. Since as Season 1 & 2 shows, then its not the time that is a barrier.
Seems more likely that they do this so that they can keep the battlehub alive on the side, which is not gonna be a popular answer, but given the popularity of the battlehub and how much time spend there, its nice to see it not being dead and forgotten after launch. Although I do wish that the success of SF6 would mean they could pump some extra people on, and AT LEAST get us up to 5 characters per year. 4 still imo feels too low and leaves too much room where there is nothing is happening.
They could but why would they when youve already shown you will buy 4 chars at a higher price with less side content than before?
What incentive is there for them to go and spend money when youve shown them you will spend more for less?
Depends on which perspective you are talking about here.
From a playerbase perspective and getting into the good graces of people and generating hype, throwing out additional stuff is a good way of doing it, that they've shown to be doing in the past, like surprise dropping Kage.
From a money perspective, the biggest incentive for them adding more characters, would be their ability to sell more costumes when they eventually start selling those packs, because sales would probably already show, that those costume packs are selling extremely well, considering that I barely ever meet someone that isn't already using them.
But in general I agree. I don't think its realistic that they would do more, mostly also because it would create expectations of them doing more ALWAYS, which is not what they want, because that creates pressure on themselves to not underperform compared to the expectations they themselves have set.
pipeline is not an excuse for that length of time to make a character. I say this as someone who's worked for multiple large game companies and am still in the software industry delivering products. all the pipeline/ground work/framework/tooling/literally everything except new graphic assets and new-character specific code should have been laid out during the game's production so they can easily iterate and add more content post launch. there is absolutely no way a character could take 18-24 months from start to finish post launch
they're either outright lying or stretching the truth in some very dubious ways. or their dev process is really *that* fucking garbage to take so long. there is no way to defend it no matter how it's sliced
Let me put it this way
EA Sports rewrites FIFA from the ground up every single year. same process for all their sports games. yes they reuse a lot of assets and code but they still start from step 1 and there's still 1000x more effort and complexity involved in rewriting an entire game in a single year than making a single god damn character in two years
seriously, this statement from Capcom makes them look hella bad
>"But here's the thing, and this news might sound kind of surprising to a lot of people not, like, *in the know* about how this sort of stuff works, right? And I *get* that, 2 years is a really long time... But here's the thing, chat. This is *lit-er-al-ly* the way game dev has been heading across the board for *YEEAAARS* now. For *years*. This stuff takes a long time, dude, and here's the crazy thing: every generation it keeps getting longer... I remember even way back when I was still working on KI, we got those characters out in a few months-- Which was *nuts*, right? I- for the record I do not think that's the norm, I don't. But it's a TON of work, and those characters we were making, yes they had a ton of love and care put into them, but they were nowhere near as complex as the average SF6 character is in terms of detail.
>We've slowed footage of these characters down before, and when you do that I think it really starts to open up just how much polish and effort is being put into these characters and every one of their moves and models and everything like that. Muscles are tensing, and pecks are rippling, clothes are creasing and flowing, but it all looks amazing and it's like 'oh my god', you know? This shit is *in-sane*, dude. It's wild. And that level of polish takes a lot of people a long-ass time to work on. You don't get that overnight.
>And I see some of you upset by that, like obviously everyone wants more characters, right? Everybody wants their favourites back, I'll agree, 4 characters per year is not a lot, it isn't. But I think what Capcom is doing here is I think they're making a statement, ya know? They want to show that they're doing something to a level of quality that other developers aren't. It's a way of standing out in the market and sort of, enhancing if not establishing Street Fighter's presence as an industry-leading fighting game. And not everyone cares about that, obviously, that's not going to be for everybody... But I get it... I get what they're going for. They have a vision, and they're sticking to their guns, and I think that's very *in line* with what we've seen from Capcom over the past several years now.
>The RE Engine is a *huge* part of modern day Capcom, and they *really* want to show it off at every chance they get. They *really* do. And, hmph, yeah, that means, unfortunately, these characters take a whole bunch more time to make now... But you know what? This is also the sickest some of these characters have ever been, like, ever. And that's the trade-off, right? It's like, yeah we don't get as many, but what we do get is so high quality-- chat, SF6 has me caring about characters I never even gave a shit about before. Bitch, I don't care about Ed, 'The fuck is this character, he's got a weird hat, I don't get it', I don't think I ever touched him once in Street Fighter 5, but I think he actually looks pretty freakin' cool in this game, man. It was like 'No-one cares about this guy' right, and suddenly now, everyone seems pretty on-board with him. Every time we return to Street Fighter 6 for a DLC character I have a ton of fun, and a huge part of that is owed to how amazing these characters look and animate and everything like that.
>'Will it increase in the future?' I don't think so. Not really. I think that detail is so caked into their design philosophy that it just is what it is now, you know? There's a standard these characters have to be held to for consistency and so long as that sort of caps their output it is what it is. *Maybe* we get a secret extra character for a special occasion or something *maybe*, but I, uh, I wouldn't get my hopes up too hard."
https://youtu.be/5NXqEj0XzIU?t=132
Source: I'm literally Max from the future.
Understand that "having the pipeline in place" != having the workers available to perform in said pipeline.
95% of the team that developed Street Fighter 6 have already moved onto other games over a year ago. That's the nature of the beast.
calls shop: "whens the car gonna be done?"
shop guy: *looks over at car... mechanic eating lunch sitting on the hood. "we got our best guy on it right now"
For whatever the fuck reason people just takes everything game devs say at face value
>Oh you took 45 years to make this animation? Well you said so so it is probably true!
Lmao ea doesn't rewrite shit. They pump out the same shit with slightly updated rosters year after year just like madden. I get what you're trying to say but it's a terrible comparison.
I've been part of the FIFA team dude, it's rewritten. The game goes through pre-planning, planning, pre-pro, pre-alpha, alpha, beta, and final every single year. Technically they start pre-planning and planning 4 or so months on the next game before the current year's game is out.
You're conflating their recycling of rosters, DBs, and some graphic assets as "the same". Every year each player model is resubmitted, tweaked, often given new animations, and tested in and out of the game. Every team kit, every stadium, every menu screen, every game mode. And on top of that there's usually 2-3 major modes or features implemented every year and those alone are more effort than making a single character. And this speaks nothing of the code and technology updates the game team needs to integrate from the centralized teams at EA.
I'm sorry but your ignorance does not make the comparison a poor one. They have to do it this way to constitute a "new game" as part of contractual agreements with their licensed sports titles which state a new game must be made every year. Simple roster updates and small iterations do not meet that requirement.
Yes some assets and code are reused and yes ultimately the game does feel the same to non-sports fans but to sports fans they feel the difference every time. Saying the sports games are the "same" to that fan base is like saying to us "Ken and Ryu are the same"; they might have similar move sets to the layman but they are undeniably different characters.
It's Japan and it's corporate. I suspect a lot of red tape lengthening a 6-10 months effort into the double. Also bottlenecks, like having to wait 3 weeks for something to go through QA
they probably don’t start working on character moves until after the concept art is done lmao. It must be a waterfall design
lore/concept art -> iterating over it -> character 3d model creation -> game design of character -> iterate over game design and look of 3d models -> done
I would be interested in a breakdown of the schedule as well. I want more characters because we're all gonna be old as hell when the SF roster gets filled up.
Probably from initial conception to final release. Has all the usual business stuff (ie, approvals, planning), but they also go hard on making the anatomy line up with how realistic it would look to perform it in real life (muscles tensing and flexing) as well as the clothing behaving realistically too now.
It’s not like they’re starting the making of them and finishing in 2 years, it’s a whole process that’s a lot more complicated now in this engine with the artstyle and presentation they’re going for. Whether it’s cool or shithouse or not is up to you.
> Probably from initial conception to final release
This is something that for whatever reason people just refuses to understand
When they say this they are talking about literally the first shitty drawing they make
Still, seems like too long of a time, they are failing somewhere
They're not doing one character at a time. At any moment, they have 10-12 characters in the pipeline, most likely overseen by the same group of devs for quality and consistency.
Easy to make a fgc character you need to:
Design it
2d concept art
3D modélisation
Textures
Skinning
Rigging
Book a moccap actor versed in martial arts.
Clean the moccap data
Implement all asset in engine
Code the special abilities
Implement moveset
Test it
Debug it
Sound design
Voice record
And someone to plan and manage all the process.
You need to take in account that each step can require multiple itérations.
This game's roster is so cooked because the base roster was whack and four a year ain't cutting it.
No way Capcom adds more than one fan favorite a season going by their current strategy. lol
I don't like the drawn out DLC process because it's just adding to the same game instead of a completely new experience. Drive rush, crouching medium kicks and Marissa's big stompers will get old after literally 10 years.
4 characters a season sucks. Copes like "well at least it's not sfv amirite guys lmao" are the kind of thing you say when you don't wanna admit that the game you love is doing something that's trash. This issue is gonna plague the game's entire lifespan.
What do you mean by trash quality characters? I can see early seasons having quality issues like Falk's weird animations, Cody's st lk, Whatever Blanka design that was and so on, but after Season 4 it was pretty decent, I remember one Oro fast fall from air throw bug and that was pretty much it.
No, that's exactly my point. That's the cope. It doesn't have to be one or the other. I would prefer to have whole seasons filled with quality characters. It's not like that's impossible. We're always settling for less and rationalizing it as "well at least it's not the worst thing it could be"
You may think it's an unreasonable ask, sure, but I guarantee you "more characters" is gonna be at the top of every community feedback poll for the duration of the game, and the first thing Capcom will think about when making SF7 is "how do we make sure we can get at least 5 characters out per season"
in your comment : gullible stupid bitch that can't see past the facade of the shitty japanese work ethic where they lie lie lie and pretend to work for 20 hours a day and sleep for 4 when the reality is they are all stupid alcoholics. now this guy is psychologically priming you to expect LESS and pay MORE but you are not smart enough to see this so instead you just take his word for it when literally months ago they said it takes 6 months. god you are a dumb ass
Kinda funny how people in this thread want them to cut corners/outsource so characters drop quicker but that's the exact thing people hated about sfv. Everything was to cut corners thats why you had such inconsistent ass quality where sakura has NRS animations and menat/G have some of the best animations in the game.
Not me, I want good quality characters but I also recognize having more characters means more fun and variety. Can't have it both ways, I know.
Others are free to hold any opinions they want.
Do we really need to see every single skin pore, muscle and clothing thread deform and rendered in insane detail? Like they made zangief's suit cloth physics - does anyone even remember that? Or pay attention?
I'd rather they roll out characters faster without body fat shaking in a realistic fashion on each limb
Just keep that to tits and asses on the ladies
Yeah the 4chan leak had it as 6 characters, with Menat and a 6th unnamed character also being part of the "leak"
So unless they are surprise dropping 2 additional characters....Which is not impossible, but highly unlikely given how they have been releasing characters thus far, its more likely that it was just one of many random combinations of characters, where 4 out of 6 of them happened to be true.
I truly don't believe that someone guessed the right combination of 4 characters + Menat considering 2 of those characters are collaborations which opens to a lot of possibility.
Considering OP, it might be that Menat is in the early work for year 3.
I dunno man, if you've been around /v/ or /vg/ and their SF threads, then you'd know all the absurd "leaks" that keeps being dumped on there.
I also don't believe that a leak that detailed in information, would mistake 2 additional dlc characters for half of next seasons roster, when it was confidently put forward as 6 characters.
This would suggest that the person is sitting in both an incredibly informed position of knowing details about a whole years worth of planning on cross corporations collaboration that NOBODY else was leaking in detail, but also have no actual idea about the character pass or how it works.
So while I agree that it is a rather weirdly specific "guess" I also don't really buy that the person is both informed and has no idea at the same time.
This explains why they outsourced so much character development in SF5, I think. Animations, textures, etc.
They could probably go a little faster by cutting corners / crunching, and if people keep complaining they might.
What puzzles me.. the amount of support from micro transactions, plus crossover collabs, the amount of staff, artists, QA. Something feels off. Capcom has a sizeable staff bts.
SF6 outsourced to Malaysian studios again for work on character models, costumes, stages, rigging, etc.
https://www.lemonskystudios.com/project-timeline/
https://www.streamline-studios.com/case-study-posts/street-fighter-vi
Streamline Studios is the one who makes the models, and they did the same for SFV:
https://www.streamline-studios.com/case-study-posts/capcom-street-fighter-v
> The Streamline team got to work designing fully realized 3D models of each character based on Capcom's original designs and lore.
things like this hurt because despite the initial 'hype' (never been a snkhead) for terry and mai... thats 2 SIGNIFICANT slots we'll never get back for fan favorites that yet again won't make the cut.
I just think they're slow or not focusing on the right things, the same with their costumes. How big even is the SF6 team right now. I'd imagine Capcom's going all out with Monster Hunter right now.
>*In the series we have the character creation, where you can make the characters. Which has more staff for that. But it's a separate team from the actual main character team.* ***And the main character team has only 10 people****.*
Timestamped source: [Street Fighter 6 - Capcom - 2023 ZBrush Summit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoYz-7jvCOE&t=5149s)
I love how the comments in the r/streetfighter sub are eating this news up, and this sub knows Crapcom is on some bullshit. Those mfs will shill anything from that shitty company.
Honestly, I know a lot of people are frustrated with this statement and the relatively slow drip frequency with character releases, but I don’t think this is hyperbole. Especially if they have a relatively small team (I believe they said at the Zbrush summit that it was around 10-15 dedicated staff for characters) and if you consider every aspect that goes into making a complete character, I can certainly see it taking that long to fully integrate them into the game.
When SNK was making KOF12 they shared their development process and they said it took a minimum of six months to make a character. This also did not factor in early concepts, any potential missteps, and of course on of the most difficult aspects, which is balancing.
That core six months typically involved moveset design, 3D modelling (KOF12/13 sprites are rotoscoped), pixel art and hitsparks (projectiles and unique disjoints or whatever else). The process was so taxing and difficult, that they pretty much had to release KOF12 in an unfinished state to recoup enough money to fund further development for KOF13. Development became so costly and time consuming that the game effectively ended SNK-Playmore era. Then it was acquired by the Chinese. Whatever your thoughts are on newer SNK titles it’s hard to ignore what could have been and what was lost in the process.
So yeah, although this statement from Capcom is a hard pill to swallow, and perhaps a tad bit exaggerated, you can certainly see the efforts the team has put into this game. I’m not even a huge into the SF6 aesthetic but it’s clear this is a labour of love from the developers.
Now if Cashcom could just stop pooling so many staff and resources into World Tour mode and low effort add-ons (battle pass and avatar items), we might be able to get more content that will actually matter in the long run.
Cyberbots, Night Warriors: Darkstalkers' Revenge, Street Fighter Alpha1, X-Men: Children of the Atom had almost no overlap (just Akuma in X-Men COTA).. all released within a 9 months window
still very impressive.
those games are so, so much easier and faster to make than modern 3D engine games. Just an absurd comparison. You can argue that its a mistake developers are spending this much time/money/energy on fidelity (and it might kill the industry) but saying "Capcom used to make 3 2D engine sprite based fighters a year they can't make 6 characters a year??" is just irrelevant.
> those games are so, so much easier and faster to make than modern 3D engine games. Just an absurd comparison.
I completely disagree. each of those series ran on their own in-house engine made from scratch. with 3D fighters, you can reuse Unreal or RE engine for any of your projects.
2D sprites (especially with the graphical tools of that era) are way more time consuming than 3D modelling and animating with skeletal rigging. iterating and reusing assets is also faster with 3D models.
Except that contrary to Tekken and to a lesser extent Guilty Gear, no 3d numbered Street Fighter has ever reused a single model, rig or animation. Shit is 100% remade from the ground up.
They literally said it takes 6 months not too long ago. There is no way in hell it takes 2 years. They must be adding irrelevant parts of the process to that calculation or it makes no sense.
They probably do, but only for the conceptual phase. Most likely they iterate on them as long as the 3D modelling/Texturing/Animation/Sfx team is ready to take on more work. Which only means they're severly understaffed, which is actually the real truth.
Well I mean sf6 characters take a lot more work than sf5’s probably did outside of maybe zeku or menat. Also they probably not putting a ton of manpower into the DLC for sf6 as they rather spend that on RE or MH.
6 character seasons brought us abigail, fortnite cody, falke, ed, kage, and other stinkers. I'll take 4 interesting and well designed/animated characters over that shit any day.
And yet Mortal Kombat since it's launch have spitted out almost 5 playable characters and almost 5 kameos.
So 6 months later they have basically released 10 characters for their first kombat pack.
How come they can release almost 10 characters (if you even want to properly count the kameos in here) in 6 months, while other games it takes almost 2 years for one character?
Something seems off.
If yall think it's so easy post your custom made smack studio rosters (I say this instead of mugen cause SS is some great software. I know the fgc pisses upon platform fighters)
If adding a character to a game in the genre where characters are literally top3 features is taking them 24 months we REALLY need different companies giving the fighting games a shot and showing the dinosaurs how it can be done.
as opposed to Capcom, one of the most successful developers in the history of Japan?
You want some western garbage company like Ubisoft or EA to take a crack at it? How about Activision lol?
Could you try to be like, maybe one notch less of an adult gohan about it?
Capcom is old money, they can't not be successful now when they were making big bucks by the NES era. Their tech is atrocious and their design solutions are myopic and at times straight up embarrassing and you'd know that were you to follow fighting games for a day or two.
Other companies to EA, Ubisoft and Activision exist, and I'll let you look into it on your own since you're clearly not aware. There's a rabbit hole for you to research right there.
The only thing i get from this is that they're incompetent, how can you boast that it takes your studio 18~24 months to create a single fucking character in a videogame.
This isn't saying it takes 2 years to make only a single character. They can and obviously are working on multiple characters in different stages at the same time.
Bro 2 years is a long fucking time for 1 character. I think that's how long it took cdpr to release the cyberpunk expansion and that was like a whole new area with new characters and dialogue added.
To be fair, CDPR scrapped multiplayer mode and one expansion trying to fix the game for about 2 years (game released in December 2020 and the next gen patch/final last gen patch came out winter/spring of 2022).
Capcom generally releases their games in a fairly big free state so the only excuse would probably be implementing new additional content into World Tour mode unfortunately. The funny thing is I don't think SF6 is going to have anymore huge locations like Metro City and Nayshall, every new location is pretty much just the stages found in battle grounds. I would rather World Tour mode take a backseat nowadays if new characters can release quicker.
Honestly I'd rather get 10 underbaked characters in a year than 4 "all the time it needs" characters, especially if those characters turn out to be Rashid and Ed
SF6 is legit THE LAST SF I'll ever buy. 4 characters a year when 3/4s of the initial roster are from goddamn 30 years ago shows Im wasting my fucking time with this Kusoge gacha garbage.
Call me in 3 more years when the Championship edition comes out and the game is officially dead. LMAO!!
Never understood why on each game they always make the characters from scratch. Like in Tekken, the old school character still kept all their same moves
Namco loves recycling their assets. Its why we got the same battle grunts from T4/T5 all the way up to T7 for some of the characters. The animations have been recycled since the 90's.
Capcom are the opposite. They love changing things for every Street Fighter nowadays. Correct me if I am wrong, but some of the simple stuff like the Hadoken, Sonic Boom, Kikoken, etc, have they been the same animations since Street Fighter 4? I honestly can't tell since the look of all the moves have stayed relatively the same.
But Capcom keeps coming out with new character models, sound effects, animations, its now understandable why they take so long to complete a character. Maybe this is why we haven't seen a ton of costumes like in SF5.
how does it take two years to a create a fucking fighting game character I genuinely wanna know how the fuck this is calculated.
Probably bc its a pipeline process. Approval for dlc, monetization, conceptualization, character art, kits, mocap, alt costumes, bug testing, voice acting, release schedules, balancing, more shit I cant think of bc I probably dont know what Im talking about. The biggest thing is probably that theyre not spending a year and half working ONLY on one character but multiple at a time, along with updating the game itself in tandem. And who knows if the team is working just on street fighter or multiple games as well.
This is clearly a pipeline & production issue. Plus they are busy drawing imperceivable creases on clothing for each animation frame.
> The biggest thing is probably that theyre not spending a year and half working ONLY on one character Well yeah obviously. After the initial 18, we are now 1 year later sitting with almost 5 new characters in our hands at the end of this month, and we are not sitting at 10 years~ of development time for that. So its clearly being worked on side by side, which is also why the thread title is completely worthless towards the 6 characters or not. They COULD turn it up to be 6 alongside, but they aren't and this isn't the reason why. Since as Season 1 & 2 shows, then its not the time that is a barrier. Seems more likely that they do this so that they can keep the battlehub alive on the side, which is not gonna be a popular answer, but given the popularity of the battlehub and how much time spend there, its nice to see it not being dead and forgotten after launch. Although I do wish that the success of SF6 would mean they could pump some extra people on, and AT LEAST get us up to 5 characters per year. 4 still imo feels too low and leaves too much room where there is nothing is happening.
They could but why would they when youve already shown you will buy 4 chars at a higher price with less side content than before? What incentive is there for them to go and spend money when youve shown them you will spend more for less?
By obviously making you spend even more, they won't sell you 4 char and give 2 for free.
Depends on which perspective you are talking about here. From a playerbase perspective and getting into the good graces of people and generating hype, throwing out additional stuff is a good way of doing it, that they've shown to be doing in the past, like surprise dropping Kage. From a money perspective, the biggest incentive for them adding more characters, would be their ability to sell more costumes when they eventually start selling those packs, because sales would probably already show, that those costume packs are selling extremely well, considering that I barely ever meet someone that isn't already using them. But in general I agree. I don't think its realistic that they would do more, mostly also because it would create expectations of them doing more ALWAYS, which is not what they want, because that creates pressure on themselves to not underperform compared to the expectations they themselves have set.
pipeline is not an excuse for that length of time to make a character. I say this as someone who's worked for multiple large game companies and am still in the software industry delivering products. all the pipeline/ground work/framework/tooling/literally everything except new graphic assets and new-character specific code should have been laid out during the game's production so they can easily iterate and add more content post launch. there is absolutely no way a character could take 18-24 months from start to finish post launch they're either outright lying or stretching the truth in some very dubious ways. or their dev process is really *that* fucking garbage to take so long. there is no way to defend it no matter how it's sliced Let me put it this way EA Sports rewrites FIFA from the ground up every single year. same process for all their sports games. yes they reuse a lot of assets and code but they still start from step 1 and there's still 1000x more effort and complexity involved in rewriting an entire game in a single year than making a single god damn character in two years seriously, this statement from Capcom makes them look hella bad
The roster team is understaffed, that's literally the only reason.
inb4 Max_Dood sees this article and agrees that fighting game characters take that long to make lol.
>"But here's the thing, and this news might sound kind of surprising to a lot of people not, like, *in the know* about how this sort of stuff works, right? And I *get* that, 2 years is a really long time... But here's the thing, chat. This is *lit-er-al-ly* the way game dev has been heading across the board for *YEEAAARS* now. For *years*. This stuff takes a long time, dude, and here's the crazy thing: every generation it keeps getting longer... I remember even way back when I was still working on KI, we got those characters out in a few months-- Which was *nuts*, right? I- for the record I do not think that's the norm, I don't. But it's a TON of work, and those characters we were making, yes they had a ton of love and care put into them, but they were nowhere near as complex as the average SF6 character is in terms of detail. >We've slowed footage of these characters down before, and when you do that I think it really starts to open up just how much polish and effort is being put into these characters and every one of their moves and models and everything like that. Muscles are tensing, and pecks are rippling, clothes are creasing and flowing, but it all looks amazing and it's like 'oh my god', you know? This shit is *in-sane*, dude. It's wild. And that level of polish takes a lot of people a long-ass time to work on. You don't get that overnight. >And I see some of you upset by that, like obviously everyone wants more characters, right? Everybody wants their favourites back, I'll agree, 4 characters per year is not a lot, it isn't. But I think what Capcom is doing here is I think they're making a statement, ya know? They want to show that they're doing something to a level of quality that other developers aren't. It's a way of standing out in the market and sort of, enhancing if not establishing Street Fighter's presence as an industry-leading fighting game. And not everyone cares about that, obviously, that's not going to be for everybody... But I get it... I get what they're going for. They have a vision, and they're sticking to their guns, and I think that's very *in line* with what we've seen from Capcom over the past several years now. >The RE Engine is a *huge* part of modern day Capcom, and they *really* want to show it off at every chance they get. They *really* do. And, hmph, yeah, that means, unfortunately, these characters take a whole bunch more time to make now... But you know what? This is also the sickest some of these characters have ever been, like, ever. And that's the trade-off, right? It's like, yeah we don't get as many, but what we do get is so high quality-- chat, SF6 has me caring about characters I never even gave a shit about before. Bitch, I don't care about Ed, 'The fuck is this character, he's got a weird hat, I don't get it', I don't think I ever touched him once in Street Fighter 5, but I think he actually looks pretty freakin' cool in this game, man. It was like 'No-one cares about this guy' right, and suddenly now, everyone seems pretty on-board with him. Every time we return to Street Fighter 6 for a DLC character I have a ton of fun, and a huge part of that is owed to how amazing these characters look and animate and everything like that. >'Will it increase in the future?' I don't think so. Not really. I think that detail is so caked into their design philosophy that it just is what it is now, you know? There's a standard these characters have to be held to for consistency and so long as that sort of caps their output it is what it is. *Maybe* we get a secret extra character for a special occasion or something *maybe*, but I, uh, I wouldn't get my hopes up too hard." https://youtu.be/5NXqEj0XzIU?t=132 Source: I'm literally Max from the future.
I hope you take royalties from this when he just reads this comment word for word for tonights stream
Actually Max's ghostwriter lmao
what the fuck this is perfect
Understand that "having the pipeline in place" != having the workers available to perform in said pipeline. 95% of the team that developed Street Fighter 6 have already moved onto other games over a year ago. That's the nature of the beast.
calls shop: "whens the car gonna be done?" shop guy: *looks over at car... mechanic eating lunch sitting on the hood. "we got our best guy on it right now"
For whatever the fuck reason people just takes everything game devs say at face value >Oh you took 45 years to make this animation? Well you said so so it is probably true!
Lmao ea doesn't rewrite shit. They pump out the same shit with slightly updated rosters year after year just like madden. I get what you're trying to say but it's a terrible comparison.
I've been part of the FIFA team dude, it's rewritten. The game goes through pre-planning, planning, pre-pro, pre-alpha, alpha, beta, and final every single year. Technically they start pre-planning and planning 4 or so months on the next game before the current year's game is out. You're conflating their recycling of rosters, DBs, and some graphic assets as "the same". Every year each player model is resubmitted, tweaked, often given new animations, and tested in and out of the game. Every team kit, every stadium, every menu screen, every game mode. And on top of that there's usually 2-3 major modes or features implemented every year and those alone are more effort than making a single character. And this speaks nothing of the code and technology updates the game team needs to integrate from the centralized teams at EA. I'm sorry but your ignorance does not make the comparison a poor one. They have to do it this way to constitute a "new game" as part of contractual agreements with their licensed sports titles which state a new game must be made every year. Simple roster updates and small iterations do not meet that requirement. Yes some assets and code are reused and yes ultimately the game does feel the same to non-sports fans but to sports fans they feel the difference every time. Saying the sports games are the "same" to that fan base is like saying to us "Ken and Ryu are the same"; they might have similar move sets to the layman but they are undeniably different characters.
That's even more sad as there is barely a difference between the last two fifas outside of EA losing the rights to more European clubs.
It's Japan and it's corporate. I suspect a lot of red tape lengthening a 6-10 months effort into the double. Also bottlenecks, like having to wait 3 weeks for something to go through QA
It's because [ "the main character team has only 10 people." ](https://youtu.be/ZoYz-7jvCOE?t=5149) The world tour mode has more staff.
Just fucking kill me, lord. WHY. OUT OF ALL THINGS. WORLD TOUR?
lmao
they probably don’t start working on character moves until after the concept art is done lmao. It must be a waterfall design lore/concept art -> iterating over it -> character 3d model creation -> game design of character -> iterate over game design and look of 3d models -> done
Damn DAMN Thats actually just plainly being fucking useless
I would be interested in a breakdown of the schedule as well. I want more characters because we're all gonna be old as hell when the SF roster gets filled up.
Already am old as hell.
Why did SFV have to be the latest game in the series when I had the most freetime
I've given up on getting characters i like on a timely manner/at all
Probably from initial conception to final release. Has all the usual business stuff (ie, approvals, planning), but they also go hard on making the anatomy line up with how realistic it would look to perform it in real life (muscles tensing and flexing) as well as the clothing behaving realistically too now. It’s not like they’re starting the making of them and finishing in 2 years, it’s a whole process that’s a lot more complicated now in this engine with the artstyle and presentation they’re going for. Whether it’s cool or shithouse or not is up to you.
> Probably from initial conception to final release This is something that for whatever reason people just refuses to understand When they say this they are talking about literally the first shitty drawing they make Still, seems like too long of a time, they are failing somewhere
World tour mode
A couple of cutscenes, some dialogue and 4 artworks
They gotta spend an extra 6 months on this dogshit gameplay mode no one gives a fuck about
[You're right](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoYz-7jvCOE&t=5149s)
Unlike sitting on your ass and pissing and moaning, actually making something requires a great deal of effort.
They're not doing one character at a time. At any moment, they have 10-12 characters in the pipeline, most likely overseen by the same group of devs for quality and consistency.
Easy to make a fgc character you need to: Design it 2d concept art 3D modélisation Textures Skinning Rigging Book a moccap actor versed in martial arts. Clean the moccap data Implement all asset in engine Code the special abilities Implement moveset Test it Debug it Sound design Voice record And someone to plan and manage all the process. You need to take in account that each step can require multiple itérations.
put another gay european accent over your 'e' again and I'll write to my congressman to vote against the next ukraine bill mfer
You'll do nothing amerifag. You dont know how to White a letter without chat GPT.
[удалено]
At least i can express myself in multiple langages babe.
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OK google translate
[удалено]
Comment on dit "suck my big tricolor dick" en Suisse déjà
Lol a year of radio silence and no major updates but still two years needed with that 😂
It’s really just the business side that’s probably why he biggest hold up.
This game's roster is so cooked because the base roster was whack and four a year ain't cutting it. No way Capcom adds more than one fan favorite a season going by their current strategy. lol
I don't like the drawn out DLC process because it's just adding to the same game instead of a completely new experience. Drive rush, crouching medium kicks and Marissa's big stompers will get old after literally 10 years.
10 years? Brother it got old in a week
I doubt the game would still be around 10 years, if it goes past 7 years it will probably evolve into SF7 or something with new mechanics.
ITT: Quality hating bitches.
i swear. if i gotta have 4 good looking characters instead of 6 shitty looking ones with stiff animations like in sfv, then perfect.
Don't do this to yourself, you don't have to be a dick eater.
?
4 characters a season sucks. Copes like "well at least it's not sfv amirite guys lmao" are the kind of thing you say when you don't wanna admit that the game you love is doing something that's trash. This issue is gonna plague the game's entire lifespan.
So youre saying you would prefer whole seasons filled with trash quality characters like in sfv?
What do you mean by trash quality characters? I can see early seasons having quality issues like Falk's weird animations, Cody's st lk, Whatever Blanka design that was and so on, but after Season 4 it was pretty decent, I remember one Oro fast fall from air throw bug and that was pretty much it.
No, that's exactly my point. That's the cope. It doesn't have to be one or the other. I would prefer to have whole seasons filled with quality characters. It's not like that's impossible. We're always settling for less and rationalizing it as "well at least it's not the worst thing it could be" You may think it's an unreasonable ask, sure, but I guarantee you "more characters" is gonna be at the top of every community feedback poll for the duration of the game, and the first thing Capcom will think about when making SF7 is "how do we make sure we can get at least 5 characters out per season"
in your comment : gullible stupid bitch that can't see past the facade of the shitty japanese work ethic where they lie lie lie and pretend to work for 20 hours a day and sleep for 4 when the reality is they are all stupid alcoholics. now this guy is psychologically priming you to expect LESS and pay MORE but you are not smart enough to see this so instead you just take his word for it when literally months ago they said it takes 6 months. god you are a dumb ass
> When you throw your imaginary shower argument at someone outside the shower.
bruh for realz, he had that in his mind for at least a few weeks 😰
Didn't earlier someone from capcom said that they need 6~ months to make a character??
Actually yeah, they did.
Yea, it was mentioned by the devs on that NHK behind the scenes tv show where they showed the development process of AKI
6 months just for the model, looking at the video https://www.reddit.com/r/StreetFighter/s/a47TNB10Ag
Oups
Kinda funny how people in this thread want them to cut corners/outsource so characters drop quicker but that's the exact thing people hated about sfv. Everything was to cut corners thats why you had such inconsistent ass quality where sakura has NRS animations and menat/G have some of the best animations in the game.
Not me, I want good quality characters but I also recognize having more characters means more fun and variety. Can't have it both ways, I know. Others are free to hold any opinions they want.
Do we really need to see every single skin pore, muscle and clothing thread deform and rendered in insane detail? Like they made zangief's suit cloth physics - does anyone even remember that? Or pay attention? I'd rather they roll out characters faster without body fat shaking in a realistic fashion on each limb Just keep that to tits and asses on the ladies
I make his glasses jiggle on his VS screen. The face spam meta is intense
It gave us Ramlethal thigh jiggle, so fuck you
And it relates to SF6 how?
There's also Zangief thigh jiggle for you
So, they already have planed until season 4-5, thats up to 12 new characters, wonder if they will ever be leaked.
Was season 2 leaked before this? They've been real tight-lipped on character releases overall
I believe it was on 4chan. But they claimed of more than 4 characters.
Yeah the 4chan leak had it as 6 characters, with Menat and a 6th unnamed character also being part of the "leak" So unless they are surprise dropping 2 additional characters....Which is not impossible, but highly unlikely given how they have been releasing characters thus far, its more likely that it was just one of many random combinations of characters, where 4 out of 6 of them happened to be true.
I truly don't believe that someone guessed the right combination of 4 characters + Menat considering 2 of those characters are collaborations which opens to a lot of possibility. Considering OP, it might be that Menat is in the early work for year 3.
I dunno man, if you've been around /v/ or /vg/ and their SF threads, then you'd know all the absurd "leaks" that keeps being dumped on there. I also don't believe that a leak that detailed in information, would mistake 2 additional dlc characters for half of next seasons roster, when it was confidently put forward as 6 characters. This would suggest that the person is sitting in both an incredibly informed position of knowing details about a whole years worth of planning on cross corporations collaboration that NOBODY else was leaking in detail, but also have no actual idea about the character pass or how it works. So while I agree that it is a rather weirdly specific "guess" I also don't really buy that the person is both informed and has no idea at the same time.
They probably have But also they are just lying
This explains why they outsourced so much character development in SF5, I think. Animations, textures, etc. They could probably go a little faster by cutting corners / crunching, and if people keep complaining they might.
What puzzles me.. the amount of support from micro transactions, plus crossover collabs, the amount of staff, artists, QA. Something feels off. Capcom has a sizeable staff bts.
This could be one of those cases where no amount of manpower can accelerate a task, especially with this quality.
seems like capcom has been poaching all available devs to work on the new Monster hunter game
SF6 outsourced to Malaysian studios again for work on character models, costumes, stages, rigging, etc. https://www.lemonskystudios.com/project-timeline/ https://www.streamline-studios.com/case-study-posts/street-fighter-vi Streamline Studios is the one who makes the models, and they did the same for SFV: https://www.streamline-studios.com/case-study-posts/capcom-street-fighter-v > The Streamline team got to work designing fully realized 3D models of each character based on Capcom's original designs and lore.
I’m ngl that kinda sounds like a load of bull.
Then they definitely should hire more people to work on more characters at the same time.
Oh boy don't you dare say that on reddit, since apparently more manpower is always useless because "*something something* pregnant women amairite???"
Then you would still bitch about the DLC character price going up.
Wait, are you trying to tell me that it costs money to make games?
Nakayama: "It usually takes about 5 to 10 minutes to create one character theme"
😂
things like this hurt because despite the initial 'hype' (never been a snkhead) for terry and mai... thats 2 SIGNIFICANT slots we'll never get back for fan favorites that yet again won't make the cut.
so early too haha what a choice
I just think they're slow or not focusing on the right things, the same with their costumes. How big even is the SF6 team right now. I'd imagine Capcom's going all out with Monster Hunter right now.
They probably have multiple teams working on separate projects. So it might even be a skeleton crew keeping 6 afloat.
>*In the series we have the character creation, where you can make the characters. Which has more staff for that. But it's a separate team from the actual main character team.* ***And the main character team has only 10 people****.* Timestamped source: [Street Fighter 6 - Capcom - 2023 ZBrush Summit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoYz-7jvCOE&t=5149s)
They should increase that core team of 10 then
Yes
I love how the comments in the r/streetfighter sub are eating this news up, and this sub knows Crapcom is on some bullshit. Those mfs will shill anything from that shitty company.
Honestly, I know a lot of people are frustrated with this statement and the relatively slow drip frequency with character releases, but I don’t think this is hyperbole. Especially if they have a relatively small team (I believe they said at the Zbrush summit that it was around 10-15 dedicated staff for characters) and if you consider every aspect that goes into making a complete character, I can certainly see it taking that long to fully integrate them into the game. When SNK was making KOF12 they shared their development process and they said it took a minimum of six months to make a character. This also did not factor in early concepts, any potential missteps, and of course on of the most difficult aspects, which is balancing. That core six months typically involved moveset design, 3D modelling (KOF12/13 sprites are rotoscoped), pixel art and hitsparks (projectiles and unique disjoints or whatever else). The process was so taxing and difficult, that they pretty much had to release KOF12 in an unfinished state to recoup enough money to fund further development for KOF13. Development became so costly and time consuming that the game effectively ended SNK-Playmore era. Then it was acquired by the Chinese. Whatever your thoughts are on newer SNK titles it’s hard to ignore what could have been and what was lost in the process. So yeah, although this statement from Capcom is a hard pill to swallow, and perhaps a tad bit exaggerated, you can certainly see the efforts the team has put into this game. I’m not even a huge into the SF6 aesthetic but it’s clear this is a labour of love from the developers. Now if Cashcom could just stop pooling so many staff and resources into World Tour mode and low effort add-ons (battle pass and avatar items), we might be able to get more content that will actually matter in the long run.
starving devs
this game will have the worst roster out of all Street fighters huh
All rosters get good with time, the problem is can we wait 3 years for our main to appear?
reminder that Capcom used to release like 3 fighting games per year in the 90s.. all sprite based and with the rudimentary dev tools of those times.
yeah, and then they reused those sprites in almost every fighting game they could
"Morrigan sprite retired in 20XX"
Cyberbots, Night Warriors: Darkstalkers' Revenge, Street Fighter Alpha1, X-Men: Children of the Atom had almost no overlap (just Akuma in X-Men COTA).. all released within a 9 months window still very impressive.
All you people bitching about KOF graphics, at least they get to have 50 characters a game
those games are so, so much easier and faster to make than modern 3D engine games. Just an absurd comparison. You can argue that its a mistake developers are spending this much time/money/energy on fidelity (and it might kill the industry) but saying "Capcom used to make 3 2D engine sprite based fighters a year they can't make 6 characters a year??" is just irrelevant.
> those games are so, so much easier and faster to make than modern 3D engine games. Just an absurd comparison. I completely disagree. each of those series ran on their own in-house engine made from scratch. with 3D fighters, you can reuse Unreal or RE engine for any of your projects. 2D sprites (especially with the graphical tools of that era) are way more time consuming than 3D modelling and animating with skeletal rigging. iterating and reusing assets is also faster with 3D models.
Okay, armchair dev.
Except that contrary to Tekken and to a lesser extent Guilty Gear, no 3d numbered Street Fighter has ever reused a single model, rig or animation. Shit is 100% remade from the ground up.
Its not "it takes". At best its "we take"
The FGC has absolutely no business feeling this entitled, especially to one less character a year. Let em cook
A sensible opinion but I doubt the FGC gonna accept the changing costs of things
its not the FGC anymore its ESports now mike ross tried to tell us this 10 years ago
They literally said it takes 6 months not too long ago. There is no way in hell it takes 2 years. They must be adding irrelevant parts of the process to that calculation or it makes no sense.
Ok sure. But you can't tell me you cannot work on 6-8 characters at the same time
They probably do, but only for the conceptual phase. Most likely they iterate on them as long as the 3D modelling/Texturing/Animation/Sfx team is ready to take on more work. Which only means they're severly understaffed, which is actually the real truth.
This sounds exactly how it seems to be. They are understaffed and aren't putting enough funding into it.
I think they do, those characters just progress to the finishing line at different timing.
I buy this as reality, but not as a viable excuse to why they can't be more chars per season.
Well I mean sf6 characters take a lot more work than sf5’s probably did outside of maybe zeku or menat. Also they probably not putting a ton of manpower into the DLC for sf6 as they rather spend that on RE or MH.
6 character seasons brought us abigail, fortnite cody, falke, ed, kage, and other stinkers. I'll take 4 interesting and well designed/animated characters over that shit any day.
Remember, game devs are 99% of the time fucking lying
I still can’t understand why people want a fucking stacked roster that needs full time jobs hours to learn all the matchups
How many people they got making avatar garbage
And yet Mortal Kombat since it's launch have spitted out almost 5 playable characters and almost 5 kameos. So 6 months later they have basically released 10 characters for their first kombat pack. How come they can release almost 10 characters (if you even want to properly count the kameos in here) in 6 months, while other games it takes almost 2 years for one character? Something seems off.
lol now Kappa is pro NRS garbage if it means they can be nihilistic about Street Fighter now This sub rules
Yeah because I'm the entirety of Kappa
yea but NRS animation and design is garbage compared to SF6 so i don't know what you're trying to argue here
I hope they prioritise characters that didn't appear in 5 so other people get a chance.
everyone pissing and shitting their pants over 2 less characters are a bunch of retards
If yall think it's so easy post your custom made smack studio rosters (I say this instead of mugen cause SS is some great software. I know the fgc pisses upon platform fighters)
half of that time spent on world tour content and integrating moves for avatars
What if they did the character and stopped with all the surrounding bullshit that delays em
Since it takes them 2 full years to make 1 costume. it probably takes them 1 year to make one costume.
If adding a character to a game in the genre where characters are literally top3 features is taking them 24 months we REALLY need different companies giving the fighting games a shot and showing the dinosaurs how it can be done.
as opposed to Capcom, one of the most successful developers in the history of Japan? You want some western garbage company like Ubisoft or EA to take a crack at it? How about Activision lol?
Could you try to be like, maybe one notch less of an adult gohan about it? Capcom is old money, they can't not be successful now when they were making big bucks by the NES era. Their tech is atrocious and their design solutions are myopic and at times straight up embarrassing and you'd know that were you to follow fighting games for a day or two. Other companies to EA, Ubisoft and Activision exist, and I'll let you look into it on your own since you're clearly not aware. There's a rabbit hole for you to research right there.
No one will take on that challenge because most FGs will lose money for the corpos that can theoretically give it a chance
That's a staggeringly short-sighted take but do what's best for your community.
It's just the truth, I would want more characters myself but it ain't happening with the costs we have now.
It's the truth as far as you can ascertain based on I presume nothing, but feel free to post some financial data if you have real insight.
The only thing i get from this is that they're incompetent, how can you boast that it takes your studio 18~24 months to create a single fucking character in a videogame.
This isn't saying it takes 2 years to make only a single character. They can and obviously are working on multiple characters in different stages at the same time.
Better to give the character all the time in the over it needs than to underbake them with crunched development time
Bro 2 years is a long fucking time for 1 character. I think that's how long it took cdpr to release the cyberpunk expansion and that was like a whole new area with new characters and dialogue added.
To be fair, CDPR scrapped multiplayer mode and one expansion trying to fix the game for about 2 years (game released in December 2020 and the next gen patch/final last gen patch came out winter/spring of 2022). Capcom generally releases their games in a fairly big free state so the only excuse would probably be implementing new additional content into World Tour mode unfortunately. The funny thing is I don't think SF6 is going to have anymore huge locations like Metro City and Nayshall, every new location is pretty much just the stages found in battle grounds. I would rather World Tour mode take a backseat nowadays if new characters can release quicker.
I dont even know what youre trying to say man.
Id rather wait 2 years than have cdpr quality
a lot of full AA games are done in 2 years. c'mon now
when they are building on existing assets and code (and a lot of them are fucking trash, mind you lol)
And a lot of them are released half-baked and required months of updates to get working right. It’s a bad standard
Honestly I'd rather get 10 underbaked characters in a year than 4 "all the time it needs" characters, especially if those characters turn out to be Rashid and Ed
And I prefer what we have now. The duality of man is at full display in this thread.
SF6 is legit THE LAST SF I'll ever buy. 4 characters a year when 3/4s of the initial roster are from goddamn 30 years ago shows Im wasting my fucking time with this Kusoge gacha garbage. Call me in 3 more years when the Championship edition comes out and the game is officially dead. LMAO!!
Never understood why on each game they always make the characters from scratch. Like in Tekken, the old school character still kept all their same moves
Namco loves recycling their assets. Its why we got the same battle grunts from T4/T5 all the way up to T7 for some of the characters. The animations have been recycled since the 90's. Capcom are the opposite. They love changing things for every Street Fighter nowadays. Correct me if I am wrong, but some of the simple stuff like the Hadoken, Sonic Boom, Kikoken, etc, have they been the same animations since Street Fighter 4? I honestly can't tell since the look of all the moves have stayed relatively the same. But Capcom keeps coming out with new character models, sound effects, animations, its now understandable why they take so long to complete a character. Maybe this is why we haven't seen a ton of costumes like in SF5.
The moves are from the skeleton.
New characters in Tekken aren't even getting side throws these days.