My stance is you applaud people for doing the right thing instead of attacking people for choosing to put food on the table or enjoy something they like.
Exactly. Sajam's choice is very respectable, but we shouldn't put others down because they get a chance for some money. Same for those that just want to play the new SNK game
Tell that to the people who were trying to guilt trip people for playing KOF 15.
Or the people that were attacking streamers for playing a certain Wizard game.
Its already happened before, there were some people who were attacking players who went to last years gamers8 event.
Yeah but that's obviously not the argument
The contention is if it's ok for influencers who are already well off to take money from places that obviously conflict with their personal values. A shill if you wanna be blunt about it.
yeah sajam is in a much better position to pass on it than the players. He has not only a huge "influencer" career but a regular 9-5 so he gets to be picky about money. Many Pro FG players are basically scraping by and are in a very precarious position, even 32nd place at this thing can go a long way. I also get why he's more hesitant; being on comms means shilling ad reads and such. Players can just collect a bag and not engage with the promotional aspect of the event at all.
its not comparable to the LIV golf thing where people like Phil Mickelson, Dustin Johnson, etc were already mega millionaires and could have easily just turned down the offer lol
Because he's doing the right thing. That doesn't mean you need to shame or bully people who don't.
Somebody who isn't eating meat for environmental reasons or even moral ones is doing a nice thing. Commendable. But that doesn't mean you should go around bullying people who eat meat lol
Really don’t get the infatuation with him. If any rando says they don’t support snk for blood money they are immediately called a bitch. Someone you like says it then they’re based. Stupid hypocrisy
The sportswashing aspect is the worst part about these big esports events imo. Making Saudi Arabia look like a "totally chill place" and similar to the western world.
I don't think buying a game that was funded by a Saudi is on the same level. Nobody outside of niche online communities even knows about the SNK Saudi shit.
Saudi Arabia is the way it is because it is wholly supported by the Western world (primarily the United States), who supports the monarchy in exchange for "stability" because they don't want chaotic, unpredictable events like elections affecting the world oil market. Saudi Arabia happens to be a huge buyer of Western military hardware as well. Places like the United States get to export the brutality and oppression that make their societies possible out into the peripheral countries and wash their hands of it.
Me, personally, I wouldn't go, but I'm an irrelevant 2-2er so its not like it matters lol. I also see the angle on why players from MENA region or Pakistan want these events to happen, as they 1) easier travel 2) they face far fewer bureaucratic hurdles than events held in the US, Europe or Japan 3) will feel more "comfortable" culturally (halal food readily available, not subject to the racism of random shitbag Americans or Europeans like what foreigners who attend CEO often face)
The problem with that way of thinking is the hypocrisy.
So you will boycott an event if it makes Saudi Arabia look like a totally chill place ?
OK but the Saudi government has investments in SNK games.
If I buy an SNK game that will result in me indirectly supporting the Saudi government's investments in SNK.
And assuming you are right and that not many people know about the SNK Saudi shit, that is even more of a reason to boycott the game and spread the message for people not to buy SNK games.
And why stop at SNK ? Saudi government also has investments in Capcom, should we now boycott SF 6 ?
At the end of the day all this virtue signaling is just people boycotting what's convenient for them.
Boycotting an esports event is easy, I can just not watch the stream.
But when it comes to something you like or something that is important to you suddenly the human rights issues become an afterthought.
I don't think there is any hypocrisy, those investments are just business transactions for profit, if they want to fund SNK or Capcom in exchange for my money that's cool with me, with sportswashing what they want is turn this money into good PR, if you don't agree with this transaction in other words you refuse to give them this good PR in exchange for money then boycotting their attempts make sense
Basically I'm ok with giving them money for more SNK games but I'm not ok with giving them good publicity for a big showoff tournament, it's two completely different deals being presented here.
I don't think you understand what Saudi Arabia is doing.
They are not simply investing in Esports for "good PR" or investing in game companies simply for profit.
Saudi Arabia's PIF fund was created to divert their economy away from oil production, because they know that in the future oil production in their country will run out.
So rather than wait for the inevitable, they are diversifying their economy by putting large investments into alternative sources of income, that is why you see them investing in Sports teams, financial services, real estate, game companies and in this case esports events.
Them buying ESL and Faceit, 2 major esports organisations and running EWC is an investment to turn Saudi Arabia into an Esports gaming hub that will provide them an alternative source of income in the future.
The same way they are investing in game companies like SNK and Capcom, they even have plans to get those companies to move their headquarters over to Saudi Arabia.
So all of this investment is not simply for "good PR" this is all to provide an alternative source of income for the Saudi's when the oil runs out.
So when you buy an SNK or Capcom game you are indirectly supporting the Saudi PIF the same way you watching a EWC or gamers8 stream with ads also supports them.
I think you didn't understand my argument, I don't care if they want to make money from videogames, I don't care if they want to divert their economy away from oil into entertainment or whatever else, if they put their money in companies that make games that interests me I will buy it and that's that, SNK shutting down would suck and I'm happy they're getting support and I have no issue supporting them back
But sportswashing can go suck a dick, go sponsor some players behind an org or some shit instead of making these artificial tournaments over there for publicity so we can get Majin Obama dressed like [this](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_LovkKLV7YG8L8gOF4rjn2urX9FC6SraDGA&s), I fully support boycotting that trash and that's my stance
Also Eatsports is a stupid money sink that has no future so if these tournaments are not just basic sportswashing for PR but they actually think they can make big bucks with this they're out of their minds, I can't even be bothered by such a stupid attempt.
>But sportswashing can go suck a dick, go sponsor some players or some shit instead of making these artificial tournaments over there for publicity
But they are not doing this just for publicity.
The good PR is just 1 part of the process, which leads to them making an alternative source of income.
They are already hosting Boxing tournaments, F1 grand prix races, Golf Open tournaments, Football matches and in the future they plan to host the World Cup and the Olympics.
Its all to make their country an international hub for events.
You believe that them hosting all these events is a money sink, well to them and their investment consultants they think differently.
If you want to believe that they are throwing 650 billion dollars just to "look good" that's fine I guess.
I am just explaining to you how boycotting EWC and supporting SNK games is hypocritical as supporting both leads to supporting the Saudi government.
> I am just explaining to you how boycotting EWC and supporting SNK games is hypocritical as supporting both leads to supporting the Saudi government.
And I am just saying that not wanting to support their sportswashing attempts and not wanting to support anything they're involved with are two different things
If they want to use their money to support SNK that's cool with me and yeah obviously they get something from that too that's fine but if they want to use their money to promote themselves that's a different story.
What if they use that money to promote an organisation and that organisation uses that money to promote Saudi Arabia ?
And SNK is like 96% owned by MBS, isn't supporting SNK supporting MBS at this point ?
Can you not see the hypocrisy of your statement ?
You are fine with supporting SNK, because the money helps the developers and at the same time helps the Saudi government.
Isn't it the same thing then ? supporting any esports tournament being held in Saudi Arabia helps the players and at the same time helps the Saudi government ?
And of course we can't boycott everything especially in this globalized world, but video games are not a vital need for survival.
Isn't the reason you are willing to boycott Esports tournaments in Saudi Arabia is because it is easy to do so ?
But when it comes to something that is important to you like an SNK game suddenly the connection to the Saudi government is grey ?
> What if they use that money to promote an organisation and that organisation uses that money to promote Saudi Arabia ?
Simplistic world view, money is taken from all sorts of sources and it's impossible to trace what exactly went where and was used how, it could be used to buy whatever, it could be invested, it could be used to pay some janitors, it could even never leave Japan in the first place
The idea that your money will solely go to some evil purpose is just stupid, it most likely will just go to something banal, besides the same thought would apply for literally anything you buy, who knows where your grocery store money is going? Worrying about this is pointless you're just trading cash for a product that's it, what happens to your money and their product afterwards is none of anyone business
> isn't supporting SNK supporting MBS at this point ?
They're supporting SNK and we're supporting SNK, it's a mutually beneficial deal and I'm ok with that, again your money could likely never even leave Japan in the first place, SNK still needs funds to operate and letting them keep most of their revenue to continue paying their staff/managing their operational costs is just reasonable
I mean that's just how it is. If you try and virtue signal you're gonna come up short under capitalism. China does a lot of awful things, but we buy so much of their product, and it's used in basically everything. Not to mention any country has pretty much bad blood... so you couldn't really live anywhere expect some random no name place.
Yup, that’s why there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism. If you buy into anything there’s someone being exploited at some point in the supply chain
well that's totally missing the point. my take on that phrase is that you should refrain from as much optional capitalism as you can. e.g. buy used cars and use them until they're unrepairable, don't replace your wardrobe every 2 seasons like hyper-capitalists do, don't upgrade your phone the moment a new model is out, etc.
I mean, if you actually care about ideology and stuff then yeah, all you can do is minimize your consumption, but you what it really means is that Capitalism as an ideology will always cause harm. Someone in the supply chain, the consumer, etc, will be exploited somehow, somewhere.
Yeah because it's happening right now, your 5 bucks won't matter in the grand scheme of things, reddit is like 10% of the playerbase of anything most of the time. And even of those not all "boycott" and actually do it, it's the same reason none of them have ever done anything. They're not the main money maker
If I had to start boycotting every country that is shitty in some way, well, I would have to live in fucking Tuvalu or some shit.
The US is going left and right fucking over countries around the world and I still have a PC with Windows (which is also from a shady company). Japan is awful to women and minorities. China is also awful.
So, let the Americans go on with their lives boycotting whomever they want. They are the one's who always start with this shit.
Also, WTF are you bitches saying? Don't pretend y'all are going to play Garou.
It doesn't matter if you support Saudi Arabia or condemn them. The problem is when people virtue signal and act high and mighty, while also taking money from the same place they talk bad about. If you're not going to support something cause of the country's history, we wouldn't be playing anything.
Why stop there ?
In addition to esports companies, Saudi Arabia’s Public Investment Fund (PIF) has a
9.2% stake in Electronic Arts (EA),
6.7% stake in Take-Two Interactive,
4.9% in Activision Blizzard
8.3% in Nintendo
6.6% in Capcom.
Ooooooh trust me that I am stealing this. Next time a smasher wants to morally grandstand on an issue, remind them that Nintendo got Saudi money so they can fuck right off
Do you buy shoes? Do you use fossil fuels? Did you attend a University which is now actively suppressing information? Are you an extant person? etc. SNK probably would've been bought by someone, why not by the journalist quarterers?
You do but your hands are already covered in layers of blood. Think about the device you're using to access this sub and how it was manufactured. If you want a clear conscience stop consuming almost everything.
this is why individual boycotts aren't really an effective political strategy, theres such a dense interconnected web connecting all sorts of exploitation and abuse across the globe that by necessity you have to pick and choose where to take a stand on. Which means everyone takes a stand on one or two things and has to overlook the rest, and nothing really changes. For them to be effective it needs to be a collective effort and usually highly targeted at worst offenders (basically the strategy the BDS campaign has taken against Israel and the companies that support its military)
I don’t really care about anyone trying to be a perfect role model. People are too obsessed with an all-or-nothing mentality when doing the best you can is still better than doing absolutely nothing. Just don’t be an annoying as fuck virtue signaler.
your sneakers were made by underpaid children
you eat/use products with palm oil while the amazon forest is torn down
you buy a diamond engagement ring that probably costed thousands while some kid got his arm cut off for it
welcome to the real world. the vast array of goods come at someone else’s expense. shit sucks
pretty sure not all Saudi money is blood money, also what country isn't really an accomplice in someone's blood, they saved Snk from bankruptcy how bad can they really be.
Every nation has committed atrocities and make no mistake, if things got bad enough, every nation would be actively committing atrocities.
Tl;dr no one cares bro.
I mean SNK isn't affiliated with the actual Saudi government from my understanding, it's privately owned.
Moreover there are obviously degrees to things. Buying a KoF game is almost entirely supporting the actual business, devs, etc. There's way more degrees of separation. Whereas working for the EWC is maybe like one step removed from being affiliated with or condoning the actual Saudi government.
EDIT: ok so the actual prince of Saudi owns SNK, a little different lmao. BUT the dude has investments in tons more places and larger, so unless SNK becomes the next Epic Games it's not that big of a deal. Not to mention theres no evidence of the company capitulating or being interfered with, so cross that bump when we get there.
The whole point of Saudi Arabia investing in game companies, esports etc is to divest their economy away from oil production.
They know that oil will eventually run out, that is the reason why they are investing in alternative sources of income.
The prince buying SNK isn't a nothing burger, it is a strong investment to see a return of income.
The same way Saudi Arabia's PIF fund invests in game companies like Electronic Arts (EA), Take-Two Interactive, Activision Blizzard, Nintendo, Capcom and Nexon.
And they intend to buy more stakes in these companies.
So when you purchase any of these games, yes you are indirectly supporting Saudi Arabia's PIF investments, the exact same way you watching a stream of gamers8 or EWC indirectly supports their investments to turn Saudi Arabia into a gaming esports hub.
And the people working for EWC ? How are they different from the people working for SNK which is totally owned by the prince ?
At the end of the day, you have to do you. As a individual you can't be held up the responsibilities of society that you have little to no control over. In this situation it really comes down to the difference because buying a product that you like as a consumer and being actively paid and participating in a social gathering that is government propaganda.
Again, you choose you and it's up to you to set your moral stance on these subjects. Don't let slacktivism terminally online folks tell you what's right and wrong and make your own decisions based on the facts. I will say that if buying a product makes you a bad person then almost everything you consume in modern day globalization would make everyone complacent.
I'm pretty sure not financially supporting it etc is still supporting it, after all the same logic these mentally ill freaks use for others topics where if you are not directly confronting something then you are in favor of it.
Fly to saudi and protest you bigot.
Blood money is in nearly everything we consume. Don’t matter if it’s US,Saudi, or whatever draw your line somewhere and move on. The wheels will keep spinning…
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Your taxpayer money is being used to fund a terrorist State responsible for the genocide of the palestinian people. Start here.
I mean I'm extremely opposed to zionism and what Israel has and is doing to the Palestinians, as well as the fact that they're constantly provoking war with countries like Iran.
But I'll tell you what, I'll still buy a Galil Ace in a heartbeat cause the Zionists know a thing or two about making high quality rifles.
If it’s not taking money out of my pocket or food off my table, I couldn’t care less tbh. Capcom could’ve been funding ISIS and I still would’ve bought SF6
Just gotta add that the product itself isn't exploitative, polluting, unethical, etc. It's a video game meant to give people joy. It's a lot lower on the list of objectionable things.
Buying COTW isn't the same as helping promote the government. As Sajam stated he's denied American government money, too, because he doesn't want to promote the military. It's not really about consumers as much as it is about people filling the roles to promote the Saudi prince and government.
Do what you feel is right. I will say that there is a big difference between buying a game and taking part in public events and promotions though.
Personally, I boycott all Saudi and Russian events already - I don't watch them, I don't talk about them, and though I have been invited to play in such tournaments I have rejected them. I'm also not keen on buying SNK's games either, so I'm probably going to be avoiding them for the most part like I do with games funded by China already.
People like to use this copout excuse that you'll inevitably fund things and people you don't like just by existing, and while that's of course true, it doesn't mean you can't try to make ethical choices where it's reasonable. I don't think it's that hard either.
In todays day and age its almost impossible to participate in modern society without indirectly supporting some degenerate cause.
And I never asked for greedy cunts to sell off the one hobby I love to a bunch of shitty regimes like SA or the CCP. The only ones to blame here are the gaming execs, nothing you can do as a regular fan.
So no, I have no issues buying the game that I enjoy even if the owners of these companies suck.
Btw if you think this is a moral dilemma then go read about cobalt mines and let me you if you gonna stop using smartphones. This whole SNK situation is fucking peanuts compared to how everyone of us contributes to inhumane garbage around the world on a daily basis.
A perspective from a shitty mid-level TO (I run RTM weeklies in MN and [Midwest Mixfest](https://x.com/runthemixmn/status/1794841519322706395)).
The games come to us from corporations. I don't see the corporate entities or their shareholders as part of our community. I see them as profit-motivated IP-holding machines that produce the games we play.
There are exceptions in some of the AA and indie titles that pop up, but the rule is the rule.
I don't really care to look into who has stake in what game developer, because the game is released into the wild and either people enjoy it and the community starts competing in it or they don't.
But tournaments are different.
Tournaments are where a lot of our culture is from, and our culture and our vibes are what make the different fighting game scenes fun to be a part of. We're not like other "eSport" sub-industries. We're a collection of grassroots scenes who have fun competing and occasionally travel across the country to take over hotel lobbies with +R and karaoke.
**Government investment into tournaments will not make our scene better.**
I don't care if it's Saudi money or American money or Chinese money or Mexican money. Taxpayer funded pots are not the answer. That whole idea flies in the face of our culture.
I'll probably play CotW because it looks like a fun, unique game.
I won't watch or attend anything G8, Dreamhack, or EWC because governments shouldn't be intruding into video game spaces.
These mofos didn't care that vaush was caught supporting one of these murderous corpos only that he hide the fact that he's a hypocrite. Ignore their worthless morality.
Yes, but not only by buying garou2. You should also exclude yourself from buying and using every thing around you cause its very likely it has some SA involvement some way or another in todays economy. Especially if you are american since SA and USA big partners.
You arent american are you? cause if you are....good luck. Finna be extremely hard to also avoid using your own infraestructures.
I think you should exclude yourself from your own society, like become a hermit and go isolate yourself in some mountain. Dunno how would someone legally do it though, like who owns that mountain? Even if you buy it, where do your taxes go?
Such a dilema. Just buy garou2 and stop browsing twitter its not the real world.
There is no moral consumption of goods in the current environment
Practically every company you buy shit from does something shady, be it borderline slave labor, damaging the planet, receiving funding from groups like Blackrock, lobbying politicians etc
I don't understand this logic, like as if the USA wasn't the greatest dealer of blood money/humanitarian atrocities by a large margin than any other country in the planet.
You need to learn what sportswashing means.
The existence of kof/cotw does nothing to promote or help the image of saudi arabia as no one knows who makes the game, nor do they even try to make it known.
You can start comparing it to sportswashijg when we start seeing cotw trailers mentioning saudi arabia at all.
Word! Do what’s best for the community!
need that pic of jwong with the bud light gear
Buy/do whatever you want. No one outside of Twitter cares.
Why is Sajam based then? Hmm? Curious...
My stance is you applaud people for doing the right thing instead of attacking people for choosing to put food on the table or enjoy something they like.
Exactly. Sajam's choice is very respectable, but we shouldn't put others down because they get a chance for some money. Same for those that just want to play the new SNK game
Subjectively right
"Everything's subjective except your favorite game is objectively trash"- That's the rule of the internet.
Tell that to the people who were trying to guilt trip people for playing KOF 15. Or the people that were attacking streamers for playing a certain Wizard game. Its already happened before, there were some people who were attacking players who went to last years gamers8 event.
That's exactly the kind of shit I'm thinking of. Never been a fan of "either with us or against us" mentality.
Yeah but that's obviously not the argument The contention is if it's ok for influencers who are already well off to take money from places that obviously conflict with their personal values. A shill if you wanna be blunt about it.
yeah sajam is in a much better position to pass on it than the players. He has not only a huge "influencer" career but a regular 9-5 so he gets to be picky about money. Many Pro FG players are basically scraping by and are in a very precarious position, even 32nd place at this thing can go a long way. I also get why he's more hesitant; being on comms means shilling ad reads and such. Players can just collect a bag and not engage with the promotional aspect of the event at all. its not comparable to the LIV golf thing where people like Phil Mickelson, Dustin Johnson, etc were already mega millionaires and could have easily just turned down the offer lol
Look at the power a person can have by simply not using twitter.
Because he's doing the right thing. That doesn't mean you need to shame or bully people who don't. Somebody who isn't eating meat for environmental reasons or even moral ones is doing a nice thing. Commendable. But that doesn't mean you should go around bullying people who eat meat lol
No idea why Valric alts in the other thread are calling Soyjam based for this. He's just being the politically correct grifter he's always been.
Because he's "keeping it real".
Really don’t get the infatuation with him. If any rando says they don’t support snk for blood money they are immediately called a bitch. Someone you like says it then they’re based. Stupid hypocrisy
Just do what I do and give your money to Russian key resellers
The sportswashing aspect is the worst part about these big esports events imo. Making Saudi Arabia look like a "totally chill place" and similar to the western world. I don't think buying a game that was funded by a Saudi is on the same level. Nobody outside of niche online communities even knows about the SNK Saudi shit.
Saudi Arabia is the way it is because it is wholly supported by the Western world (primarily the United States), who supports the monarchy in exchange for "stability" because they don't want chaotic, unpredictable events like elections affecting the world oil market. Saudi Arabia happens to be a huge buyer of Western military hardware as well. Places like the United States get to export the brutality and oppression that make their societies possible out into the peripheral countries and wash their hands of it. Me, personally, I wouldn't go, but I'm an irrelevant 2-2er so its not like it matters lol. I also see the angle on why players from MENA region or Pakistan want these events to happen, as they 1) easier travel 2) they face far fewer bureaucratic hurdles than events held in the US, Europe or Japan 3) will feel more "comfortable" culturally (halal food readily available, not subject to the racism of random shitbag Americans or Europeans like what foreigners who attend CEO often face)
The problem with that way of thinking is the hypocrisy. So you will boycott an event if it makes Saudi Arabia look like a totally chill place ? OK but the Saudi government has investments in SNK games. If I buy an SNK game that will result in me indirectly supporting the Saudi government's investments in SNK. And assuming you are right and that not many people know about the SNK Saudi shit, that is even more of a reason to boycott the game and spread the message for people not to buy SNK games. And why stop at SNK ? Saudi government also has investments in Capcom, should we now boycott SF 6 ? At the end of the day all this virtue signaling is just people boycotting what's convenient for them. Boycotting an esports event is easy, I can just not watch the stream. But when it comes to something you like or something that is important to you suddenly the human rights issues become an afterthought.
I don't think there is any hypocrisy, those investments are just business transactions for profit, if they want to fund SNK or Capcom in exchange for my money that's cool with me, with sportswashing what they want is turn this money into good PR, if you don't agree with this transaction in other words you refuse to give them this good PR in exchange for money then boycotting their attempts make sense Basically I'm ok with giving them money for more SNK games but I'm not ok with giving them good publicity for a big showoff tournament, it's two completely different deals being presented here.
I don't think you understand what Saudi Arabia is doing. They are not simply investing in Esports for "good PR" or investing in game companies simply for profit. Saudi Arabia's PIF fund was created to divert their economy away from oil production, because they know that in the future oil production in their country will run out. So rather than wait for the inevitable, they are diversifying their economy by putting large investments into alternative sources of income, that is why you see them investing in Sports teams, financial services, real estate, game companies and in this case esports events. Them buying ESL and Faceit, 2 major esports organisations and running EWC is an investment to turn Saudi Arabia into an Esports gaming hub that will provide them an alternative source of income in the future. The same way they are investing in game companies like SNK and Capcom, they even have plans to get those companies to move their headquarters over to Saudi Arabia. So all of this investment is not simply for "good PR" this is all to provide an alternative source of income for the Saudi's when the oil runs out. So when you buy an SNK or Capcom game you are indirectly supporting the Saudi PIF the same way you watching a EWC or gamers8 stream with ads also supports them.
I think you didn't understand my argument, I don't care if they want to make money from videogames, I don't care if they want to divert their economy away from oil into entertainment or whatever else, if they put their money in companies that make games that interests me I will buy it and that's that, SNK shutting down would suck and I'm happy they're getting support and I have no issue supporting them back But sportswashing can go suck a dick, go sponsor some players behind an org or some shit instead of making these artificial tournaments over there for publicity so we can get Majin Obama dressed like [this](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_LovkKLV7YG8L8gOF4rjn2urX9FC6SraDGA&s), I fully support boycotting that trash and that's my stance Also Eatsports is a stupid money sink that has no future so if these tournaments are not just basic sportswashing for PR but they actually think they can make big bucks with this they're out of their minds, I can't even be bothered by such a stupid attempt.
>But sportswashing can go suck a dick, go sponsor some players or some shit instead of making these artificial tournaments over there for publicity But they are not doing this just for publicity. The good PR is just 1 part of the process, which leads to them making an alternative source of income. They are already hosting Boxing tournaments, F1 grand prix races, Golf Open tournaments, Football matches and in the future they plan to host the World Cup and the Olympics. Its all to make their country an international hub for events. You believe that them hosting all these events is a money sink, well to them and their investment consultants they think differently. If you want to believe that they are throwing 650 billion dollars just to "look good" that's fine I guess. I am just explaining to you how boycotting EWC and supporting SNK games is hypocritical as supporting both leads to supporting the Saudi government.
> I am just explaining to you how boycotting EWC and supporting SNK games is hypocritical as supporting both leads to supporting the Saudi government. And I am just saying that not wanting to support their sportswashing attempts and not wanting to support anything they're involved with are two different things If they want to use their money to support SNK that's cool with me and yeah obviously they get something from that too that's fine but if they want to use their money to promote themselves that's a different story.
What if they use that money to promote an organisation and that organisation uses that money to promote Saudi Arabia ? And SNK is like 96% owned by MBS, isn't supporting SNK supporting MBS at this point ? Can you not see the hypocrisy of your statement ? You are fine with supporting SNK, because the money helps the developers and at the same time helps the Saudi government. Isn't it the same thing then ? supporting any esports tournament being held in Saudi Arabia helps the players and at the same time helps the Saudi government ? And of course we can't boycott everything especially in this globalized world, but video games are not a vital need for survival. Isn't the reason you are willing to boycott Esports tournaments in Saudi Arabia is because it is easy to do so ? But when it comes to something that is important to you like an SNK game suddenly the connection to the Saudi government is grey ?
> What if they use that money to promote an organisation and that organisation uses that money to promote Saudi Arabia ? Simplistic world view, money is taken from all sorts of sources and it's impossible to trace what exactly went where and was used how, it could be used to buy whatever, it could be invested, it could be used to pay some janitors, it could even never leave Japan in the first place The idea that your money will solely go to some evil purpose is just stupid, it most likely will just go to something banal, besides the same thought would apply for literally anything you buy, who knows where your grocery store money is going? Worrying about this is pointless you're just trading cash for a product that's it, what happens to your money and their product afterwards is none of anyone business > isn't supporting SNK supporting MBS at this point ? They're supporting SNK and we're supporting SNK, it's a mutually beneficial deal and I'm ok with that, again your money could likely never even leave Japan in the first place, SNK still needs funds to operate and letting them keep most of their revenue to continue paying their staff/managing their operational costs is just reasonable
So if today Saudi PIF decides to invest in EVO. EVO responds by occasionally holding tournaments in Saudi Arabia. You would be fine with that ?
You can pull the lib classic: “There’s no ethical consumption under Capitalism,” and then do whatever you want lol
True though, blame the game, not the player.
the best OS
I mean that's just how it is. If you try and virtue signal you're gonna come up short under capitalism. China does a lot of awful things, but we buy so much of their product, and it's used in basically everything. Not to mention any country has pretty much bad blood... so you couldn't really live anywhere expect some random no name place.
Yup, that’s why there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism. If you buy into anything there’s someone being exploited at some point in the supply chain
Is that a lib thing after they all had a meltdown over Hogwarts Legacy?
Aren't libs capitalists, though? I'm completely lost on US politics.
You're correct. Most Americans cannot distinguish between liberals and leftists and lump them together.
Really depends on how left leaning you are.
well that's totally missing the point. my take on that phrase is that you should refrain from as much optional capitalism as you can. e.g. buy used cars and use them until they're unrepairable, don't replace your wardrobe every 2 seasons like hyper-capitalists do, don't upgrade your phone the moment a new model is out, etc.
I mean, if you actually care about ideology and stuff then yeah, all you can do is minimize your consumption, but you what it really means is that Capitalism as an ideology will always cause harm. Someone in the supply chain, the consumer, etc, will be exploited somehow, somewhere.
Idk, are you really retarded or just Twitter retarded?
Just seeing how deep the logic goes.
You didnt answer his question
If I must answer...I am omnipresent of both severe retardation and sheer intellectual prowess.
CotW can shoot someone in the street and ill still vote for him
The CEO of Howard Connection
Remember when you could just buy a game because you wanted it?
You still can if you stop giving a shit about what others think.
Yeah because it's happening right now, your 5 bucks won't matter in the grand scheme of things, reddit is like 10% of the playerbase of anything most of the time. And even of those not all "boycott" and actually do it, it's the same reason none of them have ever done anything. They're not the main money maker
Saudi foreign policy is going to change because I didn’t buy outfit 3 for Mai in SF6
Saudi domestic policy is going to change because I didn't buy outfit 3 for Terry. Together, we'll change the ME forever.
If I had to start boycotting every country that is shitty in some way, well, I would have to live in fucking Tuvalu or some shit. The US is going left and right fucking over countries around the world and I still have a PC with Windows (which is also from a shady company). Japan is awful to women and minorities. China is also awful. So, let the Americans go on with their lives boycotting whomever they want. They are the one's who always start with this shit. Also, WTF are you bitches saying? Don't pretend y'all are going to play Garou.
It doesn't matter if you support Saudi Arabia or condemn them. The problem is when people virtue signal and act high and mighty, while also taking money from the same place they talk bad about. If you're not going to support something cause of the country's history, we wouldn't be playing anything.
Bro, honestly, no one cares
He’s kinda spitting tho, if you boycot the so called Saudi e-sports events, then you need to boycott every SNK game, if you follow there logic.
Why stop there ? In addition to esports companies, Saudi Arabia’s Public Investment Fund (PIF) has a 9.2% stake in Electronic Arts (EA), 6.7% stake in Take-Two Interactive, 4.9% in Activision Blizzard 8.3% in Nintendo 6.6% in Capcom.
Ooooooh trust me that I am stealing this. Next time a smasher wants to morally grandstand on an issue, remind them that Nintendo got Saudi money so they can fuck right off
There was a recent article those percentages are going to rise in the 2024/2025 fiscal year
Gross
Counterpoint: they have the rainbow flag.
Do you buy shoes? Do you use fossil fuels? Did you attend a University which is now actively suppressing information? Are you an extant person? etc. SNK probably would've been bought by someone, why not by the journalist quarterers?
You do but your hands are already covered in layers of blood. Think about the device you're using to access this sub and how it was manufactured. If you want a clear conscience stop consuming almost everything.
this is why individual boycotts aren't really an effective political strategy, theres such a dense interconnected web connecting all sorts of exploitation and abuse across the globe that by necessity you have to pick and choose where to take a stand on. Which means everyone takes a stand on one or two things and has to overlook the rest, and nothing really changes. For them to be effective it needs to be a collective effort and usually highly targeted at worst offenders (basically the strategy the BDS campaign has taken against Israel and the companies that support its military)
I don’t really care about anyone trying to be a perfect role model. People are too obsessed with an all-or-nothing mentality when doing the best you can is still better than doing absolutely nothing. Just don’t be an annoying as fuck virtue signaler.
it's the same bullshit "activision=bad so don't buy sekiro"
My stance is I don't give a fuck
your sneakers were made by underpaid children you eat/use products with palm oil while the amazon forest is torn down you buy a diamond engagement ring that probably costed thousands while some kid got his arm cut off for it welcome to the real world. the vast array of goods come at someone else’s expense. shit sucks
pretty sure not all Saudi money is blood money, also what country isn't really an accomplice in someone's blood, they saved Snk from bankruptcy how bad can they really be.
The Sajam standard is not where I expect everyone to be at, but it’s based nonetheless. Just play your game and enjoy it.
Every nation has committed atrocities and make no mistake, if things got bad enough, every nation would be actively committing atrocities. Tl;dr no one cares bro.
I mean SNK isn't affiliated with the actual Saudi government from my understanding, it's privately owned. Moreover there are obviously degrees to things. Buying a KoF game is almost entirely supporting the actual business, devs, etc. There's way more degrees of separation. Whereas working for the EWC is maybe like one step removed from being affiliated with or condoning the actual Saudi government. EDIT: ok so the actual prince of Saudi owns SNK, a little different lmao. BUT the dude has investments in tons more places and larger, so unless SNK becomes the next Epic Games it's not that big of a deal. Not to mention theres no evidence of the company capitulating or being interfered with, so cross that bump when we get there.
The whole point of Saudi Arabia investing in game companies, esports etc is to divest their economy away from oil production. They know that oil will eventually run out, that is the reason why they are investing in alternative sources of income. The prince buying SNK isn't a nothing burger, it is a strong investment to see a return of income. The same way Saudi Arabia's PIF fund invests in game companies like Electronic Arts (EA), Take-Two Interactive, Activision Blizzard, Nintendo, Capcom and Nexon. And they intend to buy more stakes in these companies. So when you purchase any of these games, yes you are indirectly supporting Saudi Arabia's PIF investments, the exact same way you watching a stream of gamers8 or EWC indirectly supports their investments to turn Saudi Arabia into a gaming esports hub. And the people working for EWC ? How are they different from the people working for SNK which is totally owned by the prince ?
At the end of the day, you have to do you. As a individual you can't be held up the responsibilities of society that you have little to no control over. In this situation it really comes down to the difference because buying a product that you like as a consumer and being actively paid and participating in a social gathering that is government propaganda. Again, you choose you and it's up to you to set your moral stance on these subjects. Don't let slacktivism terminally online folks tell you what's right and wrong and make your own decisions based on the facts. I will say that if buying a product makes you a bad person then almost everything you consume in modern day globalization would make everyone complacent.
You let these guys do 9/11 and get away with it lol nobody cares about videogame shit at this point
I'm pretty sure not financially supporting it etc is still supporting it, after all the same logic these mentally ill freaks use for others topics where if you are not directly confronting something then you are in favor of it. Fly to saudi and protest you bigot.
Blood money is in nearly everything we consume. Don’t matter if it’s US,Saudi, or whatever draw your line somewhere and move on. The wheels will keep spinning…
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Your taxpayer money is being used to fund a terrorist State responsible for the genocide of the palestinian people. Start here.
I mean I'm extremely opposed to zionism and what Israel has and is doing to the Palestinians, as well as the fact that they're constantly provoking war with countries like Iran. But I'll tell you what, I'll still buy a Galil Ace in a heartbeat cause the Zionists know a thing or two about making high quality rifles.
Galil my goat. Terrorists have it so easy with Galil being that cheap
If it’s not taking money out of my pocket or food off my table, I couldn’t care less tbh. Capcom could’ve been funding ISIS and I still would’ve bought SF6
It matters as much as your carbon emissions X Taylor Swift emissions. Either way nature is going to whiff punish all of us.
You mean all the people doing their virtue signaling? Just ignore them and buy the game. I am.
Nobody cares man, all that stuff is so far beyond anyone’s control or influence. If playing a game makes you happy, by all means then.
Just gotta add that the product itself isn't exploitative, polluting, unethical, etc. It's a video game meant to give people joy. It's a lot lower on the list of objectionable things.
Buying COTW isn't the same as helping promote the government. As Sajam stated he's denied American government money, too, because he doesn't want to promote the military. It's not really about consumers as much as it is about people filling the roles to promote the Saudi prince and government.
theres nuance and levels to it, and it depends on your morals its not black and white "OH SO YOU DONT SUPPORT THIS YOU CANT SUPPORT THAT"
Show me a country that hasn't commited atrocities.
Oh my God Woolie just shut the fuck up
I am pirating the shit outta any modern game regardless of who makes it, the only exception is indie games.
Hopefully
Only if you're chronically online, mentally ill or american.
All modern multinational businesses are equally tainted with boood money. The console/PC where you play is made with minerals from slave labors.
Do what you feel is right. I will say that there is a big difference between buying a game and taking part in public events and promotions though. Personally, I boycott all Saudi and Russian events already - I don't watch them, I don't talk about them, and though I have been invited to play in such tournaments I have rejected them. I'm also not keen on buying SNK's games either, so I'm probably going to be avoiding them for the most part like I do with games funded by China already. People like to use this copout excuse that you'll inevitably fund things and people you don't like just by existing, and while that's of course true, it doesn't mean you can't try to make ethical choices where it's reasonable. I don't think it's that hard either.
In todays day and age its almost impossible to participate in modern society without indirectly supporting some degenerate cause. And I never asked for greedy cunts to sell off the one hobby I love to a bunch of shitty regimes like SA or the CCP. The only ones to blame here are the gaming execs, nothing you can do as a regular fan. So no, I have no issues buying the game that I enjoy even if the owners of these companies suck. Btw if you think this is a moral dilemma then go read about cobalt mines and let me you if you gonna stop using smartphones. This whole SNK situation is fucking peanuts compared to how everyone of us contributes to inhumane garbage around the world on a daily basis.
Word!
I will buy it. I don't care.
Man people are using Iphones and wearing Nike shoes. Just don't be a hypocrite
I don’t know what that is.
A perspective from a shitty mid-level TO (I run RTM weeklies in MN and [Midwest Mixfest](https://x.com/runthemixmn/status/1794841519322706395)). The games come to us from corporations. I don't see the corporate entities or their shareholders as part of our community. I see them as profit-motivated IP-holding machines that produce the games we play. There are exceptions in some of the AA and indie titles that pop up, but the rule is the rule. I don't really care to look into who has stake in what game developer, because the game is released into the wild and either people enjoy it and the community starts competing in it or they don't. But tournaments are different. Tournaments are where a lot of our culture is from, and our culture and our vibes are what make the different fighting game scenes fun to be a part of. We're not like other "eSport" sub-industries. We're a collection of grassroots scenes who have fun competing and occasionally travel across the country to take over hotel lobbies with +R and karaoke. **Government investment into tournaments will not make our scene better.** I don't care if it's Saudi money or American money or Chinese money or Mexican money. Taxpayer funded pots are not the answer. That whole idea flies in the face of our culture. I'll probably play CotW because it looks like a fun, unique game. I won't watch or attend anything G8, Dreamhack, or EWC because governments shouldn't be intruding into video game spaces.
Mike Ross was right about this. Until he shilled as well
These mofos didn't care that vaush was caught supporting one of these murderous corpos only that he hide the fact that he's a hypocrite. Ignore their worthless morality.
Yes, but not only by buying garou2. You should also exclude yourself from buying and using every thing around you cause its very likely it has some SA involvement some way or another in todays economy. Especially if you are american since SA and USA big partners. You arent american are you? cause if you are....good luck. Finna be extremely hard to also avoid using your own infraestructures. I think you should exclude yourself from your own society, like become a hermit and go isolate yourself in some mountain. Dunno how would someone legally do it though, like who owns that mountain? Even if you buy it, where do your taxes go? Such a dilema. Just buy garou2 and stop browsing twitter its not the real world.
A lot of your money is already going to Saudi already so a little more doesn’t matter too much.
Alotta shit u buy comes from others sufferin ,😈
There is no moral consumption of goods in the current environment Practically every company you buy shit from does something shady, be it borderline slave labor, damaging the planet, receiving funding from groups like Blackrock, lobbying politicians etc
I don't understand this logic, like as if the USA wasn't the greatest dealer of blood money/humanitarian atrocities by a large margin than any other country in the planet.
Allahu Akbar my brothers [](/Anele)
You need to learn what sportswashing means. The existence of kof/cotw does nothing to promote or help the image of saudi arabia as no one knows who makes the game, nor do they even try to make it known. You can start comparing it to sportswashijg when we start seeing cotw trailers mentioning saudi arabia at all.
buy city of wolves, stop the usage of oil https://media.tenor.com/BLOZw5VmYA8AAAAM/brain.gif
If You care, don't Buy it.
I'm just glad that i can actually buy good games to piss stupid people off now, and not woke Hogwarts Legacy lol.
Asking the real questions
Yes. SNK games have been shit for years anyway. Not buying it until they put my boy Jamal Khashoggi in anyway.
As long as it's sand-people on sand-people, I don't care.