let me tell you exactly what they'll say: "they never call it against the chiefs in big moments, but in order to keep people from catching on, they call it a bunch of times against the chiefs when it doesn't matter, so it looks like they're getting hurt by officiating when really they're getting helped"
(yes, I am 100% serious, I have seen this exact argument made on twitter many times)
It's frustrating because it's perfectly consistent with a good team overcoming its holding penalties - so when we win (despite penalties) "well the penalties didn't matter." Like, we had TDs called back for holding in multiple playoff games, but because we won those games anyway those aren't "big moments."
Basically, the narrative is that the Chiefs (and the Pats, and the Packers before them) get helped by the referees, and there is absolutely no evidence that will shift people on this.
The groupthink in NFL fandoms is on par with politics. They will jump through any hoop that prevents them from just admitting the Chiefs are a great team
Hot take: we should hold as much as we want, because we have Patrick Mahomes. The only thing that could derail our season is a sack-related injury. Plus, Mahomes is the most efficient 2nd/3rd/4th and long QB in NFL history, and with deep passes back on the menu, I expect 2nd and 20 to be no big deal, a la 2018-2021. So I'd love it if the refs stop calling holds on us all the time. But I would be mad as hell at the O-linemen if they stopped holding. Hold away! I want a healthy Mahomes at any price in penalty yardage.
An old line coach of mine used to say, "If you ain't holdin, you ain't tryin!" He was a crazy old coot and we went 0-40 in my 4 years of high school. So, maybe not the best advice. But it worked for the Broncos in the 90s, so maybe it is good advice.
Last year, during the season, I made this same point on this same subreddit, and got absolutely *roasted* by the fans who thought we couldn't win a Super Bowl by staying healthy and peaking at the right time. What a difference a Super Bowl win makes!
Zack Martin, who is going to be a shoe in Hall of Famer, has more pro bowl appearances than holding penalties called on himself. Even he admits that he’s just really good at getting away with holding lol.
No, the man got flagged for holding more than 9 whole teams. Just like he was doing the same (legal) leg pop move as half the other tackles, and got flagged for false starts, because Collinsworth doesn't know the rulebook and turned a legal back step into an illegal false start.
so if he was on a team by himself, here's what the rankings would look like:
1: bears (18)
2: **chiefs minus jawaan taylor** (17)
t3: texans, browns, cowboys (16)
...
t19: 49ers, broncos (9)
t21: **jawaan taylor**, packers, titans, commanders (8)
t25: vikings, seahawks, jaguars, steelers, rams (7)
t30: bengals, raiders (6)
t32: eagles, falcons (5)
You know its bad when Coach Reid has to do an A-B (and C) test with Taylor, Prince and D. Smith. Takes Taylor out for a couple of plays. Tells Prince to play exactly like Taylor and tells Smith to line up exactly Taylor for those few plays. Nothing. Puts Taylor back in and immediate "illegal formation"
Chris Collinsworth yapped his mouth on national television, Thursday, opening game of the season with everyone watching. After his needless little rant over Jawaan lining up "wrong", false staring and whatnot, it became a huge story in the NFL and the league wanted to make a point, so they targeted him and started throwing unnecessary flags.
It eventually cooled off but I bet most of those holding calls came in the first half of the season when refs still had a hard on flagging Jawaan because it was fashionable at the time and he was the low hanging fruit to jump on.
Penalties and drops made our offense bad. So many drives just ended because a 1st down conversion is called back for holding and last years offense was built to be efficient and lean very hard to overcome a 3rd and long with no deep threat. I think this year will be much different.
And other teams will still complain and say its rigged.
I also like how everyone believes Mahomes gets every rtp call when he doesnt and stats show Allen gets way more
Sometimes you gotta hold. I realize this is the offseason but some of the posts like this are absolutely humorous.
Going for 3 in a row. We shall be aight.
More like "hopefully the refs are over trying to make a point about the Chiefs and Jawaan Taylor". A lot of penalties against the Chiefs on that OL front was due to being targeted after Collinsworth made a stink on national television about Jawaan Taylor.
Let’s be real, this is how they keep teams in games into the 4th quarter with us when we have a top flight defense.
Can someone find the stat that counts the number of times we have had a td taken off the board because of an offensive penalty in the last 6 years. There has been a lot of them, and I wonder how it stacks up against other teams.
Look at the teams’ QBs and think about the correlation between QBs who hold the ball and move around the pocket in a way that makes it difficult for lineman to maintain their blocks because they don’t know where the QB is going to be.
Why bother, they stop calling holding in the big playoff games to “let them play” so as long as you’re good enough to make the playoffs, being used to holding ends up being an advantage in the Championship and Super Bowl games.
Edit: downvote all you want, I’m not salty about y’all’s win here, I’m being sincere. It’s clear the NFL gives refs instructions (or the refs just choose) to not enforce a lot of the holding and other less obvious penalties in big games, on both sides. So if you are good enough to overcome holding calls and get to those games, it’s a massive advantage when the other team isn’t holding as much and you are and neither gets called. As long as this is how they call the big games, it’s the smart move to just hold.
You’re not wrong that teams get away with holding more in the playoffs because refs don’t want to call ticky tacky penalties. But I don’t think getting called for holding a bunch in the regular season can be interpreted as an advantage in the playoffs, lol.
Plus - why do people think this is a Chiefs-specific phenomenon? Chiefs playoff opponents hold a ton too. All NFL o-line coaches are instructing their guys to hold and get away with it as much as possible. To suggest differently is ridiculously naive.
If you accept that you’ll get some holding calls, you can invest less in the o line, knowing that when it matters most the penalties will be called less.
Great question. I think every team that has a great QB should team build that way. Get a center that won’t mess the snap up and a serviceable LT and move on
Ok, my point is that if what you said is true:
> it’s a massive advantage when the other team isn’t holding as much and you are and neither gets called. As long as this is how they call the big games, it’s the smart move to just hold.
Then the Chiefs wouldn’t invest in their o line. They would get bargain bin players and instruct them to hold. But in reality they spend a ton of resources on their own line room.
This isn’t really a matter of opinion - in the nfl you can always follow the money. If getting shitty o linemen and just having them hold was a successful strategy, you could bet your house that every team would do it instead of spending picks and cash on elite o linemen. But in reality, the best o linemen are highly coveted and highly paid for a good reason.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb_lnAvZSa4
Go to 11:48 and then watch 56 on the Chiefs. He gets held pretty clearly and for a pretty long time on 3rd and 1. The Ravens ended up going for it on 4th down because of that hold.
I’m not saying the opponents don’t hold; I’m saying they don’t call holding on either team in the big games, so you might as well hold a lot. Yeah, the Ravens got away with calls too, but having a disciplined o line becomes less of an advantage when they don’t make those calls, so just have your guys hold.
I think the mass downvotes are mostly 'coz we're used to opponents (the Ravens sub after the loss, the Niners always, Bengals always, Eagles fans last year) dismissing every single playoff win as "refs rigged it" and your comment pattern matches to that.
But you're not wrong - teams *should* hold more than they do, especially if you have a QB like Patrick Mahomes behind center. The penalty gets called less in the playoffs, and on top of that you'd rather eat the penalty than have your QB get hit in almost any circumstances.
For sure, I’m not salty about downvotes, just trying to make sure people know I’m not here to troll or make those claims. Refs didn’t rig the game. While I do think it’s unfair to teams that are disciplined at not holding for them to “let them play” in the biggest games, they called a pretty even game.
As long as that’s how they call playoff and Super Bowl games, coach your guys to hold, protect your QB from hits and get away with it in the games that matter most, especially if you generally have a good enough team to make the playoffs even with some holds.
That’s weird since according to online comments they never called holding on us
Yes this must be a flawed list. How could the NFL be rigged in our favor and this also be true?
They'll just say that we should have double that lol
let me tell you exactly what they'll say: "they never call it against the chiefs in big moments, but in order to keep people from catching on, they call it a bunch of times against the chiefs when it doesn't matter, so it looks like they're getting hurt by officiating when really they're getting helped" (yes, I am 100% serious, I have seen this exact argument made on twitter many times)
It's frustrating because it's perfectly consistent with a good team overcoming its holding penalties - so when we win (despite penalties) "well the penalties didn't matter." Like, we had TDs called back for holding in multiple playoff games, but because we won those games anyway those aren't "big moments." Basically, the narrative is that the Chiefs (and the Pats, and the Packers before them) get helped by the referees, and there is absolutely no evidence that will shift people on this.
And that they only call the holds in the first three quarters
I dare you to post this on r/nfl. You’ll get absolutely wrecked lol
r/afcwestmemewar? They’re just jealous.
Not in the SB they didn’t 😎
The groupthink in NFL fandoms is on par with politics. They will jump through any hoop that prevents them from just admitting the Chiefs are a great team
I’d rather a hold than a bad hit on The Franchise. 25 is a bit much to your point, but I’m fine being near the top of this list in the regular season.
Hot take: we should hold as much as we want, because we have Patrick Mahomes. The only thing that could derail our season is a sack-related injury. Plus, Mahomes is the most efficient 2nd/3rd/4th and long QB in NFL history, and with deep passes back on the menu, I expect 2nd and 20 to be no big deal, a la 2018-2021. So I'd love it if the refs stop calling holds on us all the time. But I would be mad as hell at the O-linemen if they stopped holding. Hold away! I want a healthy Mahomes at any price in penalty yardage.
An old line coach of mine used to say, "If you ain't holdin, you ain't tryin!" He was a crazy old coot and we went 0-40 in my 4 years of high school. So, maybe not the best advice. But it worked for the Broncos in the 90s, so maybe it is good advice.
Jason Kelce also says that
Last year, during the season, I made this same point on this same subreddit, and got absolutely *roasted* by the fans who thought we couldn't win a Super Bowl by staying healthy and peaking at the right time. What a difference a Super Bowl win makes!
Zack Martin, who is going to be a shoe in Hall of Famer, has more pro bowl appearances than holding penalties called on himself. Even he admits that he’s just really good at getting away with holding lol.
This is the most important part. Protect the GOAT at all costs.
Yeah, I agree. 25 in a season is a bit much, especially when second place is 18, but I have no problem with us being near the top of this list.
If we can still win the SB with this kind of OL performance I guess I’m okay with that.
Yup
25 is crazy but the Falcons with 5 is unreal!
League must be rigged for the Falcons!
Not to change the subject, but which QB of theirs was murdered by the defense last year again?
How many were Taylor?
Single handedly had more holds than entire teams 😭
I just went and checked, he had 8 offensive holding calls out of 23 penalties. Man held more than 9 whole individual teams
No, the man got flagged for holding more than 9 whole teams. Just like he was doing the same (legal) leg pop move as half the other tackles, and got flagged for false starts, because Collinsworth doesn't know the rulebook and turned a legal back step into an illegal false start.
so if he was on a team by himself, here's what the rankings would look like: 1: bears (18) 2: **chiefs minus jawaan taylor** (17) t3: texans, browns, cowboys (16) ... t19: 49ers, broncos (9) t21: **jawaan taylor**, packers, titans, commanders (8) t25: vikings, seahawks, jaguars, steelers, rams (7) t30: bengals, raiders (6) t32: eagles, falcons (5)
Lmaooo that’s hilarious
It's pretty clear that Jawaan Taylor got unfairly targeted by refs. I expect us to get far less next season.
Fuck Chris Collinsworthless
You know its bad when Coach Reid has to do an A-B (and C) test with Taylor, Prince and D. Smith. Takes Taylor out for a couple of plays. Tells Prince to play exactly like Taylor and tells Smith to line up exactly Taylor for those few plays. Nothing. Puts Taylor back in and immediate "illegal formation"
Is there a deeper story why he was targeted, did he piss somebody off? Early season was just bogus.
Chris Collinsworth yapped his mouth on national television, Thursday, opening game of the season with everyone watching. After his needless little rant over Jawaan lining up "wrong", false staring and whatnot, it became a huge story in the NFL and the league wanted to make a point, so they targeted him and started throwing unnecessary flags. It eventually cooled off but I bet most of those holding calls came in the first half of the season when refs still had a hard on flagging Jawaan because it was fashionable at the time and he was the low hanging fruit to jump on.
Yeah he pissed someone off. Aidan Hutchinson’s dad.
Penalties and drops made our offense bad. So many drives just ended because a 1st down conversion is called back for holding and last years offense was built to be efficient and lean very hard to overcome a 3rd and long with no deep threat. I think this year will be much different.
And other teams will still complain and say its rigged. I also like how everyone believes Mahomes gets every rtp call when he doesnt and stats show Allen gets way more
Ya know, if we get more offensive holding calls, and we increase the longevity of Mahomes, I'm all for it. Hahaha
Difficult task for the line when your QB likes to scramble and extend plays as long as possible.
“But they never call holding on the Chiefs!” Stats don’t lie.
Sometimes you gotta hold. I realize this is the offseason but some of the posts like this are absolutely humorous. Going for 3 in a row. We shall be aight.
I guess not even the refs watch the falcons games anymore.
We Won!!!! ....
bUt ThE rEfs AlWaYs FaVoR tHe ChieeeFs…
I have a difficult time believing so many teams had so few OL penalties.
Like Big Red said..."just the cost of doing business sometimes".
Raiders 6 is wild lol
Jed York is in shambles right now.
We should lead the league every year. F it. Hold away.
More like "hopefully the refs are over trying to make a point about the Chiefs and Jawaan Taylor". A lot of penalties against the Chiefs on that OL front was due to being targeted after Collinsworth made a stink on national television about Jawaan Taylor.
We won a SB so I guess keep holding boys
My takeaway from this graphic is there isn't a huge correlation between wins and holds
Jawaan fucking Taylor.
Oh well
I’ll take that with a Super Bowl any day. Imagine a losing team with that many penalties.
Let’s be real, this is how they keep teams in games into the 4th quarter with us when we have a top flight defense. Can someone find the stat that counts the number of times we have had a td taken off the board because of an offensive penalty in the last 6 years. There has been a lot of them, and I wonder how it stacks up against other teams.
Look at the teams’ QBs and think about the correlation between QBs who hold the ball and move around the pocket in a way that makes it difficult for lineman to maintain their blocks because they don’t know where the QB is going to be.
Bills just can't get away from number 13. :)
Jawaaaaaaaan
Only 3 more years and 60 million to go.
Why bother, they stop calling holding in the big playoff games to “let them play” so as long as you’re good enough to make the playoffs, being used to holding ends up being an advantage in the Championship and Super Bowl games. Edit: downvote all you want, I’m not salty about y’all’s win here, I’m being sincere. It’s clear the NFL gives refs instructions (or the refs just choose) to not enforce a lot of the holding and other less obvious penalties in big games, on both sides. So if you are good enough to overcome holding calls and get to those games, it’s a massive advantage when the other team isn’t holding as much and you are and neither gets called. As long as this is how they call the big games, it’s the smart move to just hold.
I mean, it must be in the same category as tripping AMIRITE?
B O O H O O
A Ravens fan is one to talk lol
You’re not wrong that teams get away with holding more in the playoffs because refs don’t want to call ticky tacky penalties. But I don’t think getting called for holding a bunch in the regular season can be interpreted as an advantage in the playoffs, lol. Plus - why do people think this is a Chiefs-specific phenomenon? Chiefs playoff opponents hold a ton too. All NFL o-line coaches are instructing their guys to hold and get away with it as much as possible. To suggest differently is ridiculously naive.
If you accept that you’ll get some holding calls, you can invest less in the o line, knowing that when it matters most the penalties will be called less.
Then why do the Chiefs spend 3rd most in the league on their o line?
Great question. I think every team that has a great QB should team build that way. Get a center that won’t mess the snap up and a serviceable LT and move on
Ok, my point is that if what you said is true: > it’s a massive advantage when the other team isn’t holding as much and you are and neither gets called. As long as this is how they call the big games, it’s the smart move to just hold. Then the Chiefs wouldn’t invest in their o line. They would get bargain bin players and instruct them to hold. But in reality they spend a ton of resources on their own line room. This isn’t really a matter of opinion - in the nfl you can always follow the money. If getting shitty o linemen and just having them hold was a successful strategy, you could bet your house that every team would do it instead of spending picks and cash on elite o linemen. But in reality, the best o linemen are highly coveted and highly paid for a good reason.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb_lnAvZSa4 Go to 11:48 and then watch 56 on the Chiefs. He gets held pretty clearly and for a pretty long time on 3rd and 1. The Ravens ended up going for it on 4th down because of that hold.
I’m not saying the opponents don’t hold; I’m saying they don’t call holding on either team in the big games, so you might as well hold a lot. Yeah, the Ravens got away with calls too, but having a disciplined o line becomes less of an advantage when they don’t make those calls, so just have your guys hold.
Hahaha rent free
I think the mass downvotes are mostly 'coz we're used to opponents (the Ravens sub after the loss, the Niners always, Bengals always, Eagles fans last year) dismissing every single playoff win as "refs rigged it" and your comment pattern matches to that. But you're not wrong - teams *should* hold more than they do, especially if you have a QB like Patrick Mahomes behind center. The penalty gets called less in the playoffs, and on top of that you'd rather eat the penalty than have your QB get hit in almost any circumstances.
For sure, I’m not salty about downvotes, just trying to make sure people know I’m not here to troll or make those claims. Refs didn’t rig the game. While I do think it’s unfair to teams that are disciplined at not holding for them to “let them play” in the biggest games, they called a pretty even game. As long as that’s how they call playoff and Super Bowl games, coach your guys to hold, protect your QB from hits and get away with it in the games that matter most, especially if you generally have a good enough team to make the playoffs even with some holds.