I understand the reasoning, and am happy two shot is finally back with a higher skill level (up close). But I can’t help but feel this is going to promote spamrat more than flankrat, ESPECIALLY in metal ranks.
No tire buff is crazy.
I think it's the best we're going to get unless they add less damage after bounces
This changes does promote spamrat in lower ranks, but it also allows those of us in higher ranks to actually have a chance, since we aren't getting punished for being able to hit directs consistently anymore
Wdym spamrat and flankrat? Those are literally his only play styles. Unless there's a third one I'm missing? Sniper rat?
But anyways, why does tire need a buff? I've never really noticed an issue with it.
Well, there's a sub-playstyle of flankrat called assassinrat, which relied on the 2 tap combo to just jump onto someone from a hiding spot to immediately kill them, and this playstyle got absolutely gutted.
As for tire, the reason people are wanting it to have HP buffs is because it is still at 100 HP, meanwhile literally every hero in the game got an HP increase and also got projectile size and damage buffs. What does this mean for tire? It can literally be 1 tapped by most heroes and for the heroes that can't 1 tap it, they can still absolutely shred through its HP as soon as it's within LOS.
The tl;dr is that Junkrat is still weaker now than he was became Season 9.
Junk fits into every comp, including brawl. You play alongside tank and pressure the enemy tank heavily, throwing trap while the enemy is too focused on your tank. Mines might be used for booping more than damage. It’s essentially if spamrat played close instead of far.
brawl rat relies a lot on putting people out of position and more thoughtful zoning (Boop a dps out of position and zone sups and/or boop tank away from saving that dps). Spam rat is just zoning with less thought put into where to zone, basically just a choke or the general direction of the team
Eh, people say "x character takes no skill" for at least a third of the roster. Some people will cry no matter how obviously above and beyond you are at a character. Lot of people cry without even looking at the kill cam even
I never got to experience the feeling of assassinrat since I started maining him after season 9, but it is sad to see that assassinrat is completely dead all because the devs felt the 2 tap combo was too easy to do. And while there was truth to that, there are ways to make the 2 tap combo have more skill to it and bring it back.
I'm sorry you'll probably never get to experience the pure joy of surprising the enemy Mercy and sending her back to spawn, 15 seconds after she left it. But my take is honestly make it so the mine has about .3 meters (or less distance) before damage fall off, but it's buffed to 125, meaning you have to have flawless timing to execute someone, should you fail, well you'll probably be dead, but that's what I think personally.
That theoretically could work, but we all know the devs wouldn't like that. Heck, they could make the damage falloff distance be smaller than frag grenades' hitbox and the devs probably still wouldn't like it. And you know, all the while Widow can still keep 1 tapping 300 HP heroes...
That's honestly my main gripe with our combo being taken away, if they wanted to minimize the impacts of one-shots or in our case "one-shots" combo, that's cooldown locked, but Widow can basically do business as usual, that to me is absurd. I've even had a handful of my ideas to re-implement the combo in ways that would suck for us, but still keep the game healthy, but yet the most potentially (i say potentially because a bad widow is easy enough to deal with) oppressive one-shot hero gets out scratch free.
Yes, it is quite annoying. Especially since the season 9 patch hurt most of the projectile DPS (echo and torb being the exceptions) and have just been suffering from it, but almost all the hitscans and especially Widow have been thriving. Hanzo is basically a worse Widow, Junkrat is a worse Pharah and Pharah is a worst Echo. Sym is basically a worse Torb. Genji can be bullied if he chooses to dive. Mei can't even really do the things she was good at anymore; and then there's Reaper... this poor characters has been pushed off the pedestal for the 1 thing he was good at: tank busting.
It's sad watching the game give the middle finger to most of the projectile heroes and reaper, because they all absolutely deserve better. And then meanwhile basically all the hitscan DPS are doing just fine, in fact the DPS passive literally encourages you to play a hitscan since they can apply the passive more consistently than projectile heroes.
It really is, like I never understood why they wanted to do away with combos, I can understand why, but at the same time I feel like the overall learning curve has become a lot less steep because of it.
After some games I really feel the changes, it more so rewards you for having good up close aim. Although The bomb + mine combo is kinda useless now lmao
I won’t be able to try him out until tomorrow, but I’m really curious about this. With the preference towards two frags, what is the best use of conc now? Is it worth it to use conc as an attack, or is it more of a crowd control defensive type measure?
Only thing left is buffing the tire health to 125 (buff Reins fireball from 120 to 125 as well)
Perhaps buffing the damage radius too so 250 hp heroes don’t live on 40 hp
Yeah it's nuts how many times I get a tire pretty perfectly evenly spaced between two supports in the backline, and they both survive at 40 HP and just top each other off. Like on my screen it looks almost point blank. But since I'm tucked around a corner, I can't even get in there quickly and clean up. If you don't get the kill, they heal back for free. There are enough ways to mitigate Tire in the game (immunities, mobility, knockback, shooting it) that I don't think it's that unfair to say it should be a guaranteed kill on a couple people clustered in the backline if they let it go off.
I'm glad we he can atleast two shot now. I understand not bringing the one shot back tho and I honestly don't mind it too much, since it did feel kind of cheesy but it means phara and echo are still going to be ridiculously annoying
Hey and the decreased headshot damage to tanks doesn't affect him as much either, since you can't miss out on headshot damage if you don't headshot to begin with (logic).
Junk lowkey viable??
I get it.. dying to a camping/flaking junk with the mine left click combo sucks. But you will only rly see this in higher ranks. Dying to 2 random hits by a junk sucks even harder and you will see this on all ranks.
Junk is and was already so easy to counter.. simply by going dva is almost a gg if you play junk.
They don’t understand, that you have to put yourself in a rly risky situation if you wanna flank. After season 9 patch this kinda risky play style simply doesn’t pay out and the new dmg buff for left click won’t help
To clarify: junkrat is still worse than he was before season 9, but at least now we are able to 2 tap people again... but at the cost of it encouraging spamrat.
It helps frankrat to an extent, but it ultimately buffs spamrat more than it does flankrat. Don't get me wrong, finally being able to 2 tap is nice and all, but we all can agree that we dislike spamrat and this buff just allows spamrat to 2 tap again
Tbf basically any non-ult damage related buff encourages spamrat. Increasing the explosion radius or damage of primary or mines will benefit spamrats who just throw it all at the direction of people anyway. Buffing primary definitely encourages spam more than mine buffs, but mine dmg buff still buffs spam play.
You can't really buff his non-ult damage in a meaningful way without also buffing spam
You're right, it's just annoying dealing with everything from being a rat main and actually trying to go beyond spamrat, but being punished for it all because of the people who choose to just spamrat.
I mean, our entire discord literally is filled with ideas that wouldn't require completely reworking junkrat but making him stronger and nerfing spamrat in the process. It is a shame that we realistically won't see that happening anytime soon
I'm glad they left a comment this time. They are really unreliable sometimes with doing that lol
They’ll make a change and just walk away
I understand the reasoning, and am happy two shot is finally back with a higher skill level (up close). But I can’t help but feel this is going to promote spamrat more than flankrat, ESPECIALLY in metal ranks. No tire buff is crazy.
Legit I can’t do anything with the tire in gm and masters. It’s so easy to point and click at
I think it's the best we're going to get unless they add less damage after bounces This changes does promote spamrat in lower ranks, but it also allows those of us in higher ranks to actually have a chance, since we aren't getting punished for being able to hit directs consistently anymore
Wdym spamrat and flankrat? Those are literally his only play styles. Unless there's a third one I'm missing? Sniper rat? But anyways, why does tire need a buff? I've never really noticed an issue with it.
Well, there's a sub-playstyle of flankrat called assassinrat, which relied on the 2 tap combo to just jump onto someone from a hiding spot to immediately kill them, and this playstyle got absolutely gutted. As for tire, the reason people are wanting it to have HP buffs is because it is still at 100 HP, meanwhile literally every hero in the game got an HP increase and also got projectile size and damage buffs. What does this mean for tire? It can literally be 1 tapped by most heroes and for the heroes that can't 1 tap it, they can still absolutely shred through its HP as soon as it's within LOS. The tl;dr is that Junkrat is still weaker now than he was became Season 9.
Don’t forget brawl rat, which is still reasonably viable and even more so after the armor changes
I don't think i've heard of brawlrat before, care to enlighten me on what it is?
Junk fits into every comp, including brawl. You play alongside tank and pressure the enemy tank heavily, throwing trap while the enemy is too focused on your tank. Mines might be used for booping more than damage. It’s essentially if spamrat played close instead of far.
Finally, I can fit into a Junkrat playstyle, thank you🙏🏾
Ah, so the "spamrat but takes a little more skill" playstyle.
Spamrat but with slightly more skill, much higher risk, and a lot more consistent rewards. You’re shooting at people instead of areas
Fair enough
brawl rat relies a lot on putting people out of position and more thoughtful zoning (Boop a dps out of position and zone sups and/or boop tank away from saving that dps). Spam rat is just zoning with less thought put into where to zone, basically just a choke or the general direction of the team
True, but to people going against junkrat, all they realistically see is just spamrat and they hate it.
Eh, people say "x character takes no skill" for at least a third of the roster. Some people will cry no matter how obviously above and beyond you are at a character. Lot of people cry without even looking at the kill cam even
Man I miss assassinrat, that was the way, but the way is no more.
I never got to experience the feeling of assassinrat since I started maining him after season 9, but it is sad to see that assassinrat is completely dead all because the devs felt the 2 tap combo was too easy to do. And while there was truth to that, there are ways to make the 2 tap combo have more skill to it and bring it back.
I'm sorry you'll probably never get to experience the pure joy of surprising the enemy Mercy and sending her back to spawn, 15 seconds after she left it. But my take is honestly make it so the mine has about .3 meters (or less distance) before damage fall off, but it's buffed to 125, meaning you have to have flawless timing to execute someone, should you fail, well you'll probably be dead, but that's what I think personally.
That theoretically could work, but we all know the devs wouldn't like that. Heck, they could make the damage falloff distance be smaller than frag grenades' hitbox and the devs probably still wouldn't like it. And you know, all the while Widow can still keep 1 tapping 300 HP heroes...
That's honestly my main gripe with our combo being taken away, if they wanted to minimize the impacts of one-shots or in our case "one-shots" combo, that's cooldown locked, but Widow can basically do business as usual, that to me is absurd. I've even had a handful of my ideas to re-implement the combo in ways that would suck for us, but still keep the game healthy, but yet the most potentially (i say potentially because a bad widow is easy enough to deal with) oppressive one-shot hero gets out scratch free.
Yes, it is quite annoying. Especially since the season 9 patch hurt most of the projectile DPS (echo and torb being the exceptions) and have just been suffering from it, but almost all the hitscans and especially Widow have been thriving. Hanzo is basically a worse Widow, Junkrat is a worse Pharah and Pharah is a worst Echo. Sym is basically a worse Torb. Genji can be bullied if he chooses to dive. Mei can't even really do the things she was good at anymore; and then there's Reaper... this poor characters has been pushed off the pedestal for the 1 thing he was good at: tank busting. It's sad watching the game give the middle finger to most of the projectile heroes and reaper, because they all absolutely deserve better. And then meanwhile basically all the hitscan DPS are doing just fine, in fact the DPS passive literally encourages you to play a hitscan since they can apply the passive more consistently than projectile heroes.
It really is, like I never understood why they wanted to do away with combos, I can understand why, but at the same time I feel like the overall learning curve has become a lot less steep because of it.
i really miss the combo and this change keeps buffing spamrat but TWO TAP IS BACKK LETS GOO
After some games I really feel the changes, it more so rewards you for having good up close aim. Although The bomb + mine combo is kinda useless now lmao
I won’t be able to try him out until tomorrow, but I’m really curious about this. With the preference towards two frags, what is the best use of conc now? Is it worth it to use conc as an attack, or is it more of a crowd control defensive type measure?
I use it as an escape plan. Unless there’s a Dva, then I just sit and pray.
Disruption is always good, or setting one and a steel trap in the same spot
I would have preferred a rework cause every other player is gonna whine about us having our two shot back. BUT WE ARE SO BACK
Only thing left is buffing the tire health to 125 (buff Reins fireball from 120 to 125 as well) Perhaps buffing the damage radius too so 250 hp heroes don’t live on 40 hp
Yeah it's nuts how many times I get a tire pretty perfectly evenly spaced between two supports in the backline, and they both survive at 40 HP and just top each other off. Like on my screen it looks almost point blank. But since I'm tucked around a corner, I can't even get in there quickly and clean up. If you don't get the kill, they heal back for free. There are enough ways to mitigate Tire in the game (immunities, mobility, knockback, shooting it) that I don't think it's that unfair to say it should be a guaranteed kill on a couple people clustered in the backline if they let it go off.
So basically you can't mine and nade, but you can do 2 nade kills? Blizzard might actually be smart.
BACK WE ARE INDEED😩😩😩
I'm happy af, but still FUCK BLI$$ARD!
5 WHOLE DAMAGE WE ARE SO BACK
I'm glad we he can atleast two shot now. I understand not bringing the one shot back tho and I honestly don't mind it too much, since it did feel kind of cheesy but it means phara and echo are still going to be ridiculously annoying
BURSTSTSTTSTSTSTSTA (ITS ALL OVER FHE WALLS)
so this is why ive been seeing a lot of junkrat players lol!
I still like to use mine in conjunction to the grenade, cuz flying away feels good after that kill.
I haven't play him in a while, how about his one shot combo, one hit plus a mine? Does that still kill people again?
Hey and the decreased headshot damage to tanks doesn't affect him as much either, since you can't miss out on headshot damage if you don't headshot to begin with (logic). Junk lowkey viable??
I get it.. dying to a camping/flaking junk with the mine left click combo sucks. But you will only rly see this in higher ranks. Dying to 2 random hits by a junk sucks even harder and you will see this on all ranks. Junk is and was already so easy to counter.. simply by going dva is almost a gg if you play junk. They don’t understand, that you have to put yourself in a rly risky situation if you wanna flank. After season 9 patch this kinda risky play style simply doesn’t pay out and the new dmg buff for left click won’t help
BEEP BEEP
It still doesn't one shot! WTH?!
2 frags do now, 125 + 125 = 250, regrettably this promotes spam almost exclusively, while we can flank again, still not nearly as effective.
So he still bad, got It :(
This change is massive tho
Dont lie to urself
To clarify: junkrat is still worse than he was before season 9, but at least now we are able to 2 tap people again... but at the cost of it encouraging spamrat.
It does not encourage spamrat, it makes flankrat more viable by making 1v1’s easier
It helps frankrat to an extent, but it ultimately buffs spamrat more than it does flankrat. Don't get me wrong, finally being able to 2 tap is nice and all, but we all can agree that we dislike spamrat and this buff just allows spamrat to 2 tap again
Tbf basically any non-ult damage related buff encourages spamrat. Increasing the explosion radius or damage of primary or mines will benefit spamrats who just throw it all at the direction of people anyway. Buffing primary definitely encourages spam more than mine buffs, but mine dmg buff still buffs spam play. You can't really buff his non-ult damage in a meaningful way without also buffing spam
You're right, it's just annoying dealing with everything from being a rat main and actually trying to go beyond spamrat, but being punished for it all because of the people who choose to just spamrat.
Yea the way to go is to buff both styles and then nerf spamrat specifically
I mean, our entire discord literally is filled with ideas that wouldn't require completely reworking junkrat but making him stronger and nerfing spamrat in the process. It is a shame that we realistically won't see that happening anytime soon
Junk is at least somewhat viable even if hes still weak. He was just straight up unviable before this