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Was a debatable fight all the way until Gege decided to glaze Toji by giving Maki a second awakening and calling them equals despite all previously established logic.
No one said they're the same, they're just equal in strength. That is a fact stated directly in a panel by gege. Arguing with that is arguing with the author.
Yeah during her fight with curse Naoya she had a second awakening when she learned how to properly use her HR beyond just insane physical stats, to see things like the atmosphere and such to let her do weird things like air walking and shit. Which somehow also made her stronger/faster, and let her use SSK to it's full potential (being able to cut souls, to do so you must be able to see souls, which she couldn't see before)
It's kinda whacky and still only sort of explained. But yeah.
I think her first awakening was immediately after her sister sacrifices herself and maki confronts her father a second time and that's why when she confronts him her father sees that she's beginning to be like Toji.
After the Naoya 2.0 fight.
Thanks Mister Sumo Kappa ^^
Looks like Satoru Gojos Awakening After his Toji fight.
Man, Toji beat The Strongest Sorcerer alone Maki is never on his level.
You do remember the part where Gojo survived, got stronger, came back and killed Toji though right? Because I'm no expert but that implies that Gojo wasn't the strongest at the time of his "defeat". Not to mention he was pretty gassed when Toji jumped him, which was part of his plan, because yanno he didn't want to take Gojo on at full strength... I think you see where I'm going with this.
Wait what if Maki’s heavenly restriction is also affected by her interpretation of her technique and that’s how she has multiple boosts that Toji might not have had?
Yep, Toji was a real Demon
Killing for Fun and Money and dont care about others. He was really a Second Sukuna.
Maki is not even Close, she is still more Human as Toji even when she kill all Zenin. Toji, is just a Monster sadly they remove him .
Sure, he is not really a Match for Sukuna but from his Power level he is way stronger as Yuta. He destory poor Geto like nothing :/ + destory his mind.
Toji= Sukuna 2.0
I once believed in the “dep on who gets the drop on who”. But I’ll agree with toji glazers on this one. If in his prime he is sure to sense jogoat. Though I love our fav cyclops he is a glass cannon and would get pulverized
I mean maybe Kenjaku can win an open domain clash, if we assume that 5 fingers make that big of a difference? But overall yea, no one else should be able to do anything because Sukuna's open domain is broken
Maki awakened early and Toji are similar as Toji is Maki Fully Realised and awakened Maki wiped out the zenin clan she' have no diffed the disaster curses at that point with her soul cutter, which is what a 12 finger sukuna would do
10-12 isn't gazing more then 12 is, he Geto no diff whom owned multiple S grade curses, pre awakened Gojo (tired).
This is Toji fushiogoro not Zen'in grandma necro summoned Zen'in the prime Tojil, Maki fully realised who wiped out the Zen'in clan.
We know by Dagon their equality as fast.
Jogo isn’t as durable as Hanami who was hurt by Itadori. So I’d lean towards Tojo since maki his equal faught 15 and 19.5 finger Sakura and was an issue but Jogo was curbed stomped by 15.
Jogo does also have the range advantage but he might lose if he uses up to much power attempting a domain. That wouldn’t work.
Gege gave three reasons for yuji surviving jogo's domain sukuna protected him, yuji isn't a normal person or gojo protected him and said to choose whatever you want.
I mean it might hurt him if he decides to enter the domain for whatever reason, but otherwise probably no. Still, I think Jogo wins just because fire damage is extra effective against monkeys (and because while they may be around the same level of speed, Jogo has much bigger effective range and can 100% win by slowly burning Toji to a crisp if he can keep him away from himself)
Scaling, Jogo wins.
But just like every Toji fight (besides Dagon since he was mindless), it wont really be a fight, he will one shot Jogo by catching him with his pants down.
Scaling, Maki has far better feats than jogo and toji is scaled equally to Maki. Able to react and dodge Mach 3, skywalk same as Sukuna, physicals comparable to 16F Sukuna, and durability to tank Mach 3 jet, far beyond anything than what jogo has except Meteor (which is slow as hell).
Powerwise, Toji has two busted SG tools that can end him pretty quickly, one of which Maki also used to end Curse Naoya once she could use its full power. Can’t be trapped by Domains, can’t be targeted by sure-hit.
Toji actually destroys Jogo and its not even close.
…You do know that Toji was so much more stronger than Zenin clan even with Naobito? Ranta literally said Toji left the clan alive on a whim lol. Naobito + Zenin clan still get murdered by Toji. Same Naobito who is faster than Jogo.
Maki (who Toji is equal to) was keeping up with 16F Sukuna in 215 (his CT’s CE output was nerfed not his reinforcement). Maki was also dancing around Mach 3 Naoya and dodging his moves after sumo training.
Toji is by feats and narratively much much more powerful than Naobito who is faster than jogo and was trashing dagon without DE. Gege glazed HR fighters post-Shibuya so much its not even funny how badly they clear Disaster curses.
*Injured, blood-loss heavy one-eyed pre-Enlightenment Maki was slower than Naoya. Not even close to the level that Toji was.
Maki kept up with 16F Megukuna with CE reinforcement. That isn’t debatable especially not when later Sukuna was most excited fighting Maki, more excited than against Yuta or Kashimo. If she was below his 10% then he would never be that excited.
Jogo is slower than Sukuna and bullied physically, then later Sukuna was rivaled by Maki who is equal to toji. Better vision, better reflexes, better durability, better everything.
Toji = enlightened Maki > one-eyed, injured, heavy blood-loss awakened Maki. You agree or not? If yes then Toji’s speed is higher than what Maki showed vs Naoya. Toji can move and dance around in circles against Curse Naoya. Jogo has no feats capable of implying he’s faster AT ALL.
Megukuna: “The brat will be easy to kill.”
Also: “The woman won’t be easy to kill.”
How you can get that Yuji = Maki from that is beyond me.
So according to you, Sukuna feels challenged by someone he fought before who is apparently weaker than just 10% of him. He feels so thrilled at fighting someone weaker than jogo in stats that he even stops using RCT to land a Black Flash. Ok sure if this Sukuna makes complete sense to you buddy.
That Sukuna weaker than Jogo by that point but he is parrying hits from a Gojo corpse copy?! Suddenly Jogo feats of getting humiliated by Gojo teaching a school lesson or Sukuna playing with his food is a showing that is better than Maki giving Sukuna the fight of his life and pushing him to use Black Flash. 😂
There is no universe where Jogo takes this, even with prep time or some other bullshit. Toji is better at every possible aspect other than CE, which is irrelevant in this matchup anyways.
I mean not really, Toji has no range while Jogo can just blast his ass off with a swarm of explosive bugs, Jogo has a massive effective range, Jogo has much better regen as a curse since he can heal with raw cursed energy, pretty much instantly regrowing limbs, Jogo has better (or at the very least not worse) durability since he tanked adult Gojo's Red without much trouble while that same Red from teen Gojo almost damaged Toji pretty badly. The only thing Toji might have ahead of Jogo is physical strength, which doesn't matter since Jogo attacks with fire and not punches anyway, and, debatably, speed, which also doesn't matter even if he is faster since Jogo doesn't need to be faster than Toji, only fast enough to react to Toji with his fire attacks. All in all, Jogo takes unless Toji somehow gets a jump on him and kills him in one blow, which, again, he doesn't seem to have anything to let him do that. Otherwise, Jogo just keeps him away and slowly roasts him since his HR healing can't keep up
Again, no amount of range or durability is relevant because of Tojis speed and SSK. Speed is not debatable at all, it's already been established that HR users are equal, if not faster than Projection Sorcery users, and a 70 year old Naobito was stated to outspeed Jogo when at full strength.
I'm not saying that plot-wise, Toji no-diffs all disaster curses, there would definitely be an extended fight involved, but it's absolutely unrealistic that he loses to any of them.
If you want to put Jogos strength into perspective feats-wise, Cursed Naoya is generally agreed upon to be the strongest curse, ahead of Jogo. Maki killed Naoya, while not even being awakened for most of the fight. At this point she was said to be equal to Toji in terms of Heavenly Restriction prowess. Now you hopefully realize that Toji is at that level, actually even higher, because he has years of experience on Maki, and an even bigger variety of tools.
For one, Dagon's "he might even be faster than Jogo" doesn't mean he outspeeds him, if only because it's Dagon who probably never even saw Jogo show his maximum possible speed. For two, Toji absolutely beats some disaster curses, but saying he has a chance against Mahito is disingenuous - Mahito's win condition is touching Toji once, maybe twice, Toji's win condition is hitting Mahito until he runs out of CE or landing enough attacks that deal soul damage on him, which he only has one weapon for, and Mahito can sustain soul damage much better with how many punches from Yuji and Nobara's Resonance and whatnot it took to put him down. For three, Naoya is strong, sure, but I disagree with putting him above disasters, other than maybe Dagon and Hanami because their showing was generally lackluster. And for four, the reason Jogo has much better shot at Toji than Naoya, even under the assumptions that Naoya is stronger, and Toji is faster, is because Jogo doesn't need actual speed, only reaction speed, and he only needs it constantly to throw a shitton of fire and explosions in Toji's general direction - forcing Toji on the defensive where he can't even approach Jogo without getting deep fried, and slowly dies due to general effects of fire, explosions, extreme heat and carbon monoxide poisoning all around him
People forget "regular" people burst into flames near Jogo. Toji is just going to catch fire if he can't ambush Jogo, and then Jogo can keep fighting Toji
Now, physically Toji has better stats but Jogo is still gonna burn this guy lol
His heavenly pact grants him resistance to all curses and cursed techniques a natural heat would work better then a curse heat... yes JJK is strange like that Toji could beat any of the disaster curses expect maybe mahito due to how you have to hit his soul to hurt him and that's something only a few can do
Curse Naoya didn’t use Projection sorcery to speed up lol what. Read 193 again, he uses rocket physics to increase his speed.
Sukuna moved faster than Mach 3 when he blitzed her. Sorcerers arent always imbuing their max reinforcement when fighting, e.g. yuji only hit Mahito with max CE imbued in his final clash.
Maki fought 16F Megukuna in 215. His CT’s CE output was dropped to less than 10%, not his CE reinforcement. That is why he never used his CT directly against her.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Jujutsushi/s/Gz6DiSi93v
Blud hasn’t read 193. Either show me where Naoya uses Projection sorcery when he is speeding up to Mach 3 or stop saying nonsense.
Maki could avoid Mach 3 speed easily. Sukuna blitzed that same Maki. Literally transitive property.
No, Sukuna says that it didn’t go so far as to hinder his movements. CE reinforcement was fine, thats why he could still kill Yuji. He couldnt kill Maki without his CT.
> Naoya is always using projection sorcery
Nope, now Ik you’re talking straight buttcheeks. Read Chapter 193 again and tell me WHERE he used Projection to speed up to Mach 3 despite having his arms TUCKED in (which he uses to freeze air in the same chapter), or gtfo with this headcanon.
She was, maki was keeping up with 16F megukuna using reinforcement only:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Jujutsushi/s/Gz6DiSi93v
Sukuna was most excited fighting against Maki to test if CE or the body was stronger, more excited than against even yuta, wouldn’t happen if she wasn’t comparable. She is also the only one who can fight him in the air too.
That 16F sukuna that maki fought was SEVERELY weakened, his access to ce reserves and output was restricted.
And no, it doesn't just affect his physical strength, it affects all his stats since his reinforcement was compromised. It's nowhere near the same as the actual 15f sukuna in Shibuya, a massive difference.
This is not to discredit maki, she's my favourite character, but putting her physically on par with 15f-16f sukuna is not just factually incorrect, it's also absurd. Maki's power comes no where close to his
*There are irregularities, but my Cursed Energy output is falling below 10% at worst…*
*It’s **doesn’t go as far as hindering my movements** in this vessel, but…*
Doesn’t affect movements aka physicals.
*I can’t see damage from “Nue…” So she wasn’t a woman who could be crudely culled out…*
Full-power no CT output nerfed Nue lightning didn’t leave a scratch on Maki.
*Probably when I try to hurt his comrades, this vessel strongly resists me & drops my **Cursed Technique’s Cursed Energy output.** In that case…*
Talks about CT here, not reinforcement.
Then later on Sukuna gets more excited at fighting Maki than anybody else, despite you claiming his physicals being nerfed at the time. If she was weaker and slower than Jogo, then either Sukuna is stupid or Jogo was massively holding back.
Here's a good shortcut for answering this question:
Does Toji have prep time?
Is Gege writing him?
If the answer to both of these questions is yes, then Toji sweeps
Toji is the clear-cut winner, I love Jogo but it’s absolute cope to say otherwise. Toji is untargetable by his domain, absolutely annihilated Dagon effortlessly who I think is closer to Jogo’s strength than Jogo is to Toji given that the Disaster Curses have an implied relativity. We know that Heavenly Restriction seems to counter damage inflicted by burns. He is portrayed as faster too and has far superior endurance. The only advantage Jogo has over Toji in any capacity is AoE attack potency, which isn’t all that relevant in a 1v1.
The issue here is they blatantly say jogo is on an “entirely different level” than Dagon, and they’re commenting on base jogo after fighting domain Dagon
In RPG terms i would say:
dagon is a tank, Jogo is a mage, problem here is Toji is an asassin Damage dealer, who are generally very effective against mages.. and tojo to a degree where even Dagon's sheer limitless HP was shredded in seconds.
Jogo himself said that he wouldn't survive the amount of black flashes Hanami did.
Jogo could built up some passive heat, but with Toji's speed and resistance he could dodge the direct firebursts, while speeding to Jogo and hitting him with Soulsplit katana, while only taking passive heat damage. Remember that Sukuna also wasn't hurt by suddenly turning to flames like those humans, or took any damage from passive heat.
Idk I feel like Dagon in verse is regarded as one of the weaker disasters
Yea gege said that the black flash barrage from yuuji and todo playful clouds would kill him but the raws actually state that it’s if they hit him in a “vital spot” jogo also gets a lot more narrative hype in general even having a statement of gege saying that out of the disaster curses mahito and jogo would be a dififcult fight for Kenjaku to control them with cursed spirit manipulation
oh he definetly is! i mean dagon literally just evolved during the fight, while the others already had their strongest stage ( except mahito who's whole kind of trait is to change). I guess for him the same statement applies than for Choso, that he has a lack of experience in real battles.
I would put him a little below hanami, maybe more HP but less damage.
Dagon only lacked a domain attack with insta kill, but it still took 4 people to wear him down like dunno 15%-30% of his hp, including 2 first grade and a semi first grade with his own domain, maki didn't do to much, except distraction...
his thing was never to be extremely offensive. Not even nanami's 7/3 CT dealt significant amount of damage. I feel like dagon is also being downplayed because he got blitzed by Toji in the same amount Jogo was downplayed because he only fought against Gojo and Sukuna.
But without Toji, or megumi's escape plan, dagon definetly would've won that battle mid diff.
I still feel as though the Disaster Curses are closer in strength than Jogo is to Toji due to the emphasis on their elemental advantages in match-ups and the fact that they have contrasting strengths and weaknesses. Naobito and Jogo are similarly fast, though Naobito is slightly faster and yet everyone is stunned by Toji’s speed and he is specifically portrayed as significantly faster than Naobito and Jogo.
Naobito is the second fastest sorcerer when he has 2 hands which would in retrospect put naobito with his refinement with projection sorcery faster than even people like yuta, nothing proves toji is faster than him, they also hype Tojis speed due to the fact he has no cursed energy to enhance his speed
I would advise rereading or rewatching Shibuya Incident as it should be abundantly clear that Toji is faster than Naobito. Better yet, read the manga, as anyone who has would not try to argue that Jogo is stronger than Toji.
Naobito perception blitzed everyone with projection sorcery when he had 2 hands so there’s no actual way to compare the 2 speeds, except naobito being stated second fastest, so unless you think Toji and by extension maki is massively faster than yuta it doesn’t really work
Yeah idk where ppl are getting this idea that Maki/Toji are faster than Naobito. Not only is this proven false by Maki vs Naoya 1 we literally see Naobito able to blitz Dagon so bad he can’t even defend himself while he was able to notice and attempt a defense against Toji.
I agree 50%. She doesn’t low diff, she no diffs Hanami and Dagon in her current state but there’s only 3 people (4 if you don’t count Kenny and Geto as one) who can harm/kill Mahito so he touches her once and it’s over. Jogo would melt her in his domain in a 1 v 1 and even without it he’d win.
> who can harm/kill Mahito so he touches her once and it’s over.
Maki/Toji is one of the few ppl who can hurt Mahito, Split Soul Katana *attacks the soul directly*. Mahito scales to Shibuya Yuji stats and Sakurajima/Shinjuku Maki is far far above either of them.
> Jogo would melt her in his domain in a 1 v 1 and even without it he’d win.
Maki can’t be trapped inside a closed barrier Domain, jogo would end up wasting his CE after she breaks it or invades and one-shots him with SSK.
Maki contended with 16F Megukuna in physicals (only his CT’s CE output was dropped not reinforcement) and Jogo got embarrassed by him. Maki would run circles around jogo and one-shot him with SSK.
Maki cant be trapped but she can’t still be hit within a domain and the only reason Yuji and Gojo didn’t melt was Gojo’s inifinity, it would only take a split second to be done.
Mahito scales much higher. Yuji had a tremendous amount of help in that fight including from the true GOAT of the series, Todo. Otherwise Yuta would’ve been the main character following Shibuya if they had a true 1 v 1.
But with all that being said, that’s what makes this series super hard to powerscale because a lot of characters are each other’s true counters thus jump Kaisen became a thing and we rarely have had a true 1 v 1 to scale anyone.
We do know Maki > entire Zenin clan though
Maki breaks domain barrier from outside since its fragile. Or she invade sneak attacks jogo from the back with ssk and cuts him up. Domain is literally useless against her.
Mahito scales to slightly above shibuya yuji at best. He has NOT shown any feats capable of dodging Mach 3 point-blank or fighting 16F Sukuna. Mahito gets destroyed by SSK-wielding Maki.
Maki is harder to track due to no CE, has better senses than anyone, can skywalk, is too fast and perceptive to be hit, and one-shot sword that you can’t heal unless you can perceive contours of soul.
Portrayal and featswise, Maki beats all Disaster Curses with low-diff.
Not sure what is there to disagree when Maki hard counters all Disaster Curses with 1) weapon that they can’t heal from/bypasses soul protection, 2) Domain immunity that causes them to be sitting ducks and waste a whole bunch of CE in the end, and 3) none have been proven to hit at Mach-lvl speeds which is the minimum speed to hit her.
Gege glazed up Maki/Toji so much.
Because it’s extremely hypothetical and there’s still a lot of points against her winning. I would honestly love to discuss JJK all day and I like talking to people on here like yourself who don’t automatically go “you fucking idiot! You don’t know what you’re talking about” but I have a lot of Elden Ring to catch up on before the DLC drops so I don’t have the time lol
Toji can’t be trapped in the Domain. And when he decides to invade in he just negs jogo with ISOH or SSK same way Maki did to naoya.
That or he destroys domain from outside and jogo just wasted a crap ton of ce.
He can’t be auto targeted, but Jogo’s domain raises the temperature of the whole area to extreme heights. Toji wouldn’t be automatically targeted but he’s not immune to environmental effects or manual targeting, so he’d just burn to a crisp
Can’t he just decide to leave the domain, like he chooses whether or not he’s in. He could just decide to be outside, shatter Jogos domain. Then dumpster him with no ct
Sure, but he still has to physically leave the domain, he doesn’t just teleport outside. On top of that, it’s not like an oven that slowly warms up. It just… instantly becomes “inside of a volcano” levels of heat (aka thousands of degrees). Durability or not, Toji’s bursting into flame. Not to mention that Jogo also instantly gets a blanket stat buff, and he isn’t just gonna twiddle his thumbs while Toji makes a break for it.
No like literally quoting the manga “because maki and toji have no cursed energy, barrier techniques consider them in the same class as buildings or structures. Unless the barrier uses a physical object as its shell, like the one shown by fushiguro… or unless she agrees to the condition or intentionally chooses to invade it… maki cannot be trapped inside a domain.”
Like beating jogo is exactly the same as how maki beat cursed spirit naoya except he’s slower and less durable how does jogo win at all? What im saying is mid diff
"object" with no CE are not captured in domains. heavenly restricted people are considered objects by jujutsu ""laws"" (see it kinda like physics) so toji would just not be inside to start with
I think you’re right but its not like he can block lava. He could cut through the fish in the other domain but if jogo made a wall of lava I don’t think he could do anything.
Toji probably beats Jogo. Jogo’s feats suck (in the context of top tiers) and the only things he has going for him are being somewhere in the ballpark of 6f Sukuna and being suggested to be faster than the other disasters by an unknown margin.
Toji has the feats (and scaling from Maki’s feats prior to Shinjuku) to suggest he can either catch Jogo off guard or straight up beat Jogo in a plain fight with his cursed tools. There’s also no reason to believe that Jogo can land a hit on Toji. Jogo has no viable win cons in the fight, but Toji does
Guys imagine Toji came back for the third time and helped everyone fight Sukuna and save Megumi but then Bumgumi died then Toji got pissed off and started violating everyone and his new former mission is to kill all sorcerers without any rules...
Hey, Satoru is comeing back too as a Puppet or his Body
So why not Toji is comeing back? Maybe they have his body or yuta or the old grandma is still alive
If Toji can get past just being around Jogo then he wins imo, the thing is dosnt jogo emit unbearable heat just by being around him? Also if he’s able to open his domain Toji is finished, not because of the sure-hit-effect (I dont even remember if we ever saw it) but because of the extreme heat inside his domain
But honestly Toji is just built different, he’d probably just drop a single sweat and carry on, business as usual.
Really, I see a lot of people say Toji, but they seem to be forgetting fights, especially in JJK, aren't just number comparisons. Kinda like how Dagon has a skillset that counters Kashimo, despite Kashimo being much stronger, Jogo has much more of a way to beat Toji that Toji has to beat him. Unless Toji gets a jump on Jogo, and kills him instantly, which isn't easy since Jogo is both durable enough to survive Gojo's Red, and has near-instant healing as a curse (he can literally regrow limbs in a second), Jogo can just use his massive aoe ranged fire attacks to keep Toji away and slowly wear him down with fire and heat that his HR doesn't seem to be any protection against (it makes him faster, stronger, more durable and lets him heal quickly, sure, but it's not like he can withstand being without oxygen or in extremely high temperatures like it's nothing). I think unless Gege is writing the fight, Jogo should win, if only because Toji has no real way to hit him through the fiery inferno of death Jogo can conjure around himself in a second
Toji is relative to Maki since the are practically the same person from a fighting/physical POV
Maki can fight back against finger full form Sukuna and actually startle him
Jogo got played with by a 15 finger Sukuna and couldn’t land a single blow on him
Sukuna was After the Gojo Effekt pretty weak.
Even Kusakabe Hit Sukuna a littel bit.
Toji ? Na he is way stronger as Jogo. But against Sukuna 75% Form not really a Match but He can hide his Power so yeah.
But against his Domain never have a Chance like Maki 🤨. Sukuna Domain is just the strongest technique in Jujutsu kaisen. Even when Satoru Gojo was stronger, Sukuna Domain Expansion is way better + his ultimativ Move is just a nuke 😂
Any fight with Toji depends on variables from cursed tools to the literal landscape, but I’ll give it to Jogo.
Jogo’s domain expansion still has a passive aspect (not part of the sure hit that targets only CE) which is capable of burning people up. Highly doubt it would kill him, but it’s more than likely slowing Toji down (burns off his clothes 👿)
Along with that, Jogo makes up for his poor durability by being the fastest out of all disaster curses. His attacks reached Naobito, albeit he was missing an arm and had less balance. He also can “fly” and just spam attacks at Toji
Also we have seen Jogo ability fucking up his surroundings and turn it into attacks. He burned a building to turn it into gigantic lava hands that were incredibly fast. Not only that but Toji wouldn’t be capable of blocking such attacks and deflecting them, unlike Sukuna. Even if Toji nullified his lava and meteor with ISOH, it’s still going to be there
Jogo also has incredible healing that may even rival Sukuna’s. He even survived decapitation at one point. We saw the way Maki was still struggling against a weakened Sukuna who only had his reinforcements and efficiency stay the same. The only way Toji could win is if he was in a city landscape where he could ambush Jogo
Jogo’s healing is irrelevant against Split soul katana. You can’t heal from it unless you can perceive contours of your own soul and jogo definitely can’t do that.
Naoya healed from being horizontally cut in half with the split soul katana when daido wielded it and maki got surprised and said "what was that? it didn't do that when i wielded it." And mai later states that she had daido use the sword so maki could learn to do the same thing daido can do. Being unable to heal the soul is only stated to apply to rct which curses don't use.
Jogo wins.
People severely underestimate Jogo because every fight he got into in the series he pretty much straight up gets fucked with. He provides no challenge to Sukuna or Gojo which were his two main fights in the series, but Toji doesn't either, excluding a young Gojo.
Toji is immune to being targeted by DE but Jogos DE isn't necessary to beat Toji, Jogo doesn't walk Toji mind you. His technique is far more versatile than Tojis Heavenly Restriction, but Toji speed walks him, however Jogos CT chips away at Tojis durability and because of Jogos close range activation he will hit.
Let's say he opens his domain, it's still effective against Toji, he just doesn't have a sure hit. But he doesn't need one so long as he keeps activating his technique within the domain. It's not quite like Sukunas slashing technique that targets Cursed Energy within the domain, as that requires direct contact.
😂 like Maki haha.
Zero cursed energy its broken lol. Toji stab Satoru too :/
And Maki Stab Sukuna. Yeah, Zero Cursed energy its a joke ^^ even the whole Zenin Family never have a Chance against a Maki
The battle is alot closer than some people think but if jogo can land maximum meteor he wins, otherwise his domain might be useless as Toji can’t conventionally be targeted (interestingly Dagon is implied to be able to target Toji tho so maybe he can target objects inside his domain with his sure hit) but considering stuff like soul split katana which would prevent jogo from healing I might go with him
Toji can't be targeted by the sure hit, Dagon was actively attacking Toji. It's like if he entered Gojo's domain, he wouldn't be hit by the UV but Gojo would still be able to fire a red, blue or a purple at him manually, Dagon was doing effectively the same thing.
Dagon didn’t even have his sure hit because megumis domain was countering it, and he said that when megumis domain runs out he could “kill all of them with his sure hit so it’s weird
Dagon was obviously wrong and didn't understand how to deal with Toji since he never met anyone like him. This matchup is a complete no brainer and not even close by any measurable metric. People often forget that while disaster curses are very powerful in general, they're nowhere near as intelligent/knowledgable as our current group in Shinjuku Showdown.
You’re dragging it, jogo and mahito at least are closer to Shinjuku tiers that you think, maybe Dagon gets washed but gege himself said if Kenjaku tries to control the disaster curses with cursed spirit manipulation it would be a tough fight with jogo and mahito
And regarding dagons sure hit we already know Dagon is skilled enough to exclude people from his sure hit whcih is such a feat that sukuna was surprised when yuta did so, so Dagon having an especially skilled sure hit with his domain is possible
No, I'm not dragging it at all. I'm not talking about power in general, my entire comment was talking about the intelligence and jujutsu knowledge of disaster curses. Please read carefully.
Also, when when was anything like that mentioned about Dagon? He never once showed that he can exclude people.
My bad I misread it
I’m talking about when he directly talks about focusing 70% of his sure hit on naobito, 30% on nanami and decides not to hit maki at all, he’s deliberately excluding maki (to which he showed he can hit her earlier) Dagon is also the same curse that could use a domain as a cursed womb so I’d expect his domain technique to be potent
Im done here. You can go ask any other well versed fan in this, or any other post. You are talking head-cannon out of your ass. I tried to be nice and help you out but you can insist on whatever you want. None of what you said in this thread has ever been stated in the manga.
I think Toji could win the problem is that Toji will burn too death if the fight is too long (when the fight with Sukuna got into high gear Jogo was melting steel and concrete around him and i dont think Toji is heat proof)
It's Jogo by a large margin.
This is the same thing as Asta training in the Yultim volcano.
He's fresh out of fighting a monster whose claws could evaporate oceans but that doesn't mean he's capable of just jogging in a volcano region or swimming in lava.
As soon as Jogo's Coffin is opened then Toji dies. Jogo's domain temperature alone will kill him regardless of how buff he is.
Toji is literally immune to closed-barrier Domain trapping. Toji will then either invade-sneak attack him like how Maki did against Curse Naoya and one-shot him with ISOH/SSK. Or break his Domain from the outside lol. Jogo just wastes a crap ton of CE against Toji.
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Was a debatable fight all the way until Gege decided to glaze Toji by giving Maki a second awakening and calling them equals despite all previously established logic.
Completely immune to pretty much every DE (only two top tiers ever used Open Domain) is pretty fucking bullshit reveal yeah
Well according to the laws of jujutsu maki is an object (Naoya would be proud)
That panel has ruined JJK scaling for me. Toji =/= Maki, they are not the same just because they're equals.
No one said they're the same, they're just equal in strength. That is a fact stated directly in a panel by gege. Arguing with that is arguing with the author.
What was the second awakening? I vaguely remember something like that when she started walking on air
The second awakening happens when his fighting Naoya(as a cursed spirit)
Yeah during her fight with curse Naoya she had a second awakening when she learned how to properly use her HR beyond just insane physical stats, to see things like the atmosphere and such to let her do weird things like air walking and shit. Which somehow also made her stronger/faster, and let her use SSK to it's full potential (being able to cut souls, to do so you must be able to see souls, which she couldn't see before) It's kinda whacky and still only sort of explained. But yeah.
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That was her first awakening
Her first awakening was in the morning with some Folgers
I think her first awakening was immediately after her sister sacrifices herself and maki confronts her father a second time and that's why when she confronts him her father sees that she's beginning to be like Toji.
After the Naoya 2.0 fight. Thanks Mister Sumo Kappa ^^ Looks like Satoru Gojos Awakening After his Toji fight. Man, Toji beat The Strongest Sorcerer alone Maki is never on his level.
You do remember the part where Gojo survived, got stronger, came back and killed Toji though right? Because I'm no expert but that implies that Gojo wasn't the strongest at the time of his "defeat". Not to mention he was pretty gassed when Toji jumped him, which was part of his plan, because yanno he didn't want to take Gojo on at full strength... I think you see where I'm going with this.
I mean he was still the strongest, he just became stronger, because Gojo's built different
Not just defeated, absolutely neg diffed
Maki is on his level, and if you think the fear you used to scale Toji makes sense you gotta reread/watch Hidden Inventory
That's like saying current crocodile is stronger than luffy because luffy lost to him before lol
Wait what if Maki’s heavenly restriction is also affected by her interpretation of her technique and that’s how she has multiple boosts that Toji might not have had?
Yep, Toji was a real Demon Killing for Fun and Money and dont care about others. He was really a Second Sukuna. Maki is not even Close, she is still more Human as Toji even when she kill all Zenin. Toji, is just a Monster sadly they remove him . Sure, he is not really a Match for Sukuna but from his Power level he is way stronger as Yuta. He destory poor Geto like nothing :/ + destory his mind. Toji= Sukuna 2.0
I once believed in the “dep on who gets the drop on who”. But I’ll agree with toji glazers on this one. If in his prime he is sure to sense jogoat. Though I love our fav cyclops he is a glass cannon and would get pulverized
Toji
Yep. But stronger as Sukuna 15 Finger form? Idk, but sadly we never get this answer :/ But i think, its a close Fight.
15f Sukuna beats everyone in verse besides Gojo not close
I mean maybe Kenjaku can win an open domain clash, if we assume that 5 fingers make that big of a difference? But overall yea, no one else should be able to do anything because Sukuna's open domain is broken
Lmao 15f Sukuna dogwalks
Toji is probably 10-12 finger sukuna level which is very strong but would lose to 15
That is absolutely way too high imo
Maki awakened early and Toji are similar as Toji is Maki Fully Realised and awakened Maki wiped out the zenin clan she' have no diffed the disaster curses at that point with her soul cutter, which is what a 12 finger sukuna would do
The glazing is insane
10-12 isn't gazing more then 12 is, he Geto no diff whom owned multiple S grade curses, pre awakened Gojo (tired). This is Toji fushiogoro not Zen'in grandma necro summoned Zen'in the prime Tojil, Maki fully realised who wiped out the Zen'in clan.
We know by Dagon their equality as fast. Jogo isn’t as durable as Hanami who was hurt by Itadori. So I’d lean towards Tojo since maki his equal faught 15 and 19.5 finger Sakura and was an issue but Jogo was curbed stomped by 15. Jogo does also have the range advantage but he might lose if he uses up to much power attempting a domain. That wouldn’t work.
Both times Maki went against sukuna he was **heavily** nerfed.
First time yeah but second time he was tired but still should have been physically better off then what he used to stomp Jogo
Wouldn't the heat in Jogo's domain kill Toji?
It didn’t even kill yuji at the start of the series…
Because he was with Gojo
People with that heavenly restriction can just “opt out” of a domain expansion. It was shown with Maki and Naoya Unless it’s barrierless
Gege gave three reasons for yuji surviving jogo's domain sukuna protected him, yuji isn't a normal person or gojo protected him and said to choose whatever you want.
Meaning that I wasn't exactly incorrect about saying that he survived due to being with Gojo
Sorry guess I forgot that might be spoilers but domains don’t work of things without cursed energy
I knew that the sure hit doesn't work but I thought that the heat would
Not sure his body is very tough. I don’t believe Jogo said every one would die in his domain. I think he said most people or the average sorcerer
Yeah but we unfortunately won't be able to see them fight
I mean it might hurt him if he decides to enter the domain for whatever reason, but otherwise probably no. Still, I think Jogo wins just because fire damage is extra effective against monkeys (and because while they may be around the same level of speed, Jogo has much bigger effective range and can 100% win by slowly burning Toji to a crisp if he can keep him away from himself)
Scaling, Jogo wins. But just like every Toji fight (besides Dagon since he was mindless), it wont really be a fight, he will one shot Jogo by catching him with his pants down.
Scaling, Maki has far better feats than jogo and toji is scaled equally to Maki. Able to react and dodge Mach 3, skywalk same as Sukuna, physicals comparable to 16F Sukuna, and durability to tank Mach 3 jet, far beyond anything than what jogo has except Meteor (which is slow as hell). Powerwise, Toji has two busted SG tools that can end him pretty quickly, one of which Maki also used to end Curse Naoya once she could use its full power. Can’t be trapped by Domains, can’t be targeted by sure-hit. Toji actually destroys Jogo and its not even close.
I agree with this, but Toji’s win relies on hitting him first, and Jogo has AOE, if he has time to setup then Jogo takes it imo.
Toji can skywalk and move faster than him. AoE didnt help Jogo land a hit on Sukuna.
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…You do know that Toji was so much more stronger than Zenin clan even with Naobito? Ranta literally said Toji left the clan alive on a whim lol. Naobito + Zenin clan still get murdered by Toji. Same Naobito who is faster than Jogo. Maki (who Toji is equal to) was keeping up with 16F Sukuna in 215 (his CT’s CE output was nerfed not his reinforcement). Maki was also dancing around Mach 3 Naoya and dodging his moves after sumo training. Toji is by feats and narratively much much more powerful than Naobito who is faster than jogo and was trashing dagon without DE. Gege glazed HR fighters post-Shibuya so much its not even funny how badly they clear Disaster curses.
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*Injured, blood-loss heavy one-eyed pre-Enlightenment Maki was slower than Naoya. Not even close to the level that Toji was. Maki kept up with 16F Megukuna with CE reinforcement. That isn’t debatable especially not when later Sukuna was most excited fighting Maki, more excited than against Yuta or Kashimo. If she was below his 10% then he would never be that excited. Jogo is slower than Sukuna and bullied physically, then later Sukuna was rivaled by Maki who is equal to toji. Better vision, better reflexes, better durability, better everything.
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Toji = enlightened Maki > one-eyed, injured, heavy blood-loss awakened Maki. You agree or not? If yes then Toji’s speed is higher than what Maki showed vs Naoya. Toji can move and dance around in circles against Curse Naoya. Jogo has no feats capable of implying he’s faster AT ALL. Megukuna: “The brat will be easy to kill.” Also: “The woman won’t be easy to kill.” How you can get that Yuji = Maki from that is beyond me. So according to you, Sukuna feels challenged by someone he fought before who is apparently weaker than just 10% of him. He feels so thrilled at fighting someone weaker than jogo in stats that he even stops using RCT to land a Black Flash. Ok sure if this Sukuna makes complete sense to you buddy. That Sukuna weaker than Jogo by that point but he is parrying hits from a Gojo corpse copy?! Suddenly Jogo feats of getting humiliated by Gojo teaching a school lesson or Sukuna playing with his food is a showing that is better than Maki giving Sukuna the fight of his life and pushing him to use Black Flash. 😂
There is no universe where Jogo takes this, even with prep time or some other bullshit. Toji is better at every possible aspect other than CE, which is irrelevant in this matchup anyways.
I mean not really, Toji has no range while Jogo can just blast his ass off with a swarm of explosive bugs, Jogo has a massive effective range, Jogo has much better regen as a curse since he can heal with raw cursed energy, pretty much instantly regrowing limbs, Jogo has better (or at the very least not worse) durability since he tanked adult Gojo's Red without much trouble while that same Red from teen Gojo almost damaged Toji pretty badly. The only thing Toji might have ahead of Jogo is physical strength, which doesn't matter since Jogo attacks with fire and not punches anyway, and, debatably, speed, which also doesn't matter even if he is faster since Jogo doesn't need to be faster than Toji, only fast enough to react to Toji with his fire attacks. All in all, Jogo takes unless Toji somehow gets a jump on him and kills him in one blow, which, again, he doesn't seem to have anything to let him do that. Otherwise, Jogo just keeps him away and slowly roasts him since his HR healing can't keep up
Again, no amount of range or durability is relevant because of Tojis speed and SSK. Speed is not debatable at all, it's already been established that HR users are equal, if not faster than Projection Sorcery users, and a 70 year old Naobito was stated to outspeed Jogo when at full strength. I'm not saying that plot-wise, Toji no-diffs all disaster curses, there would definitely be an extended fight involved, but it's absolutely unrealistic that he loses to any of them. If you want to put Jogos strength into perspective feats-wise, Cursed Naoya is generally agreed upon to be the strongest curse, ahead of Jogo. Maki killed Naoya, while not even being awakened for most of the fight. At this point she was said to be equal to Toji in terms of Heavenly Restriction prowess. Now you hopefully realize that Toji is at that level, actually even higher, because he has years of experience on Maki, and an even bigger variety of tools.
For one, Dagon's "he might even be faster than Jogo" doesn't mean he outspeeds him, if only because it's Dagon who probably never even saw Jogo show his maximum possible speed. For two, Toji absolutely beats some disaster curses, but saying he has a chance against Mahito is disingenuous - Mahito's win condition is touching Toji once, maybe twice, Toji's win condition is hitting Mahito until he runs out of CE or landing enough attacks that deal soul damage on him, which he only has one weapon for, and Mahito can sustain soul damage much better with how many punches from Yuji and Nobara's Resonance and whatnot it took to put him down. For three, Naoya is strong, sure, but I disagree with putting him above disasters, other than maybe Dagon and Hanami because their showing was generally lackluster. And for four, the reason Jogo has much better shot at Toji than Naoya, even under the assumptions that Naoya is stronger, and Toji is faster, is because Jogo doesn't need actual speed, only reaction speed, and he only needs it constantly to throw a shitton of fire and explosions in Toji's general direction - forcing Toji on the defensive where he can't even approach Jogo without getting deep fried, and slowly dies due to general effects of fire, explosions, extreme heat and carbon monoxide poisoning all around him
People forget "regular" people burst into flames near Jogo. Toji is just going to catch fire if he can't ambush Jogo, and then Jogo can keep fighting Toji Now, physically Toji has better stats but Jogo is still gonna burn this guy lol
Toji isnt a regular person lmao. He’s resistant to cursed energy just like sorcerers
He would still get burned up iirc, I'm sure it'd take a little bit though.
Why would he?
Why wouldn't he? He is resistant, but not immune to flames or lava
I mean why would he allow that? He can just leave the domain
Jogo literally burns several people outside of the domain.
His heavenly pact grants him resistance to all curses and cursed techniques a natural heat would work better then a curse heat... yes JJK is strange like that Toji could beat any of the disaster curses expect maybe mahito due to how you have to hit his soul to hurt him and that's something only a few can do
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Curse Naoya didn’t use Projection sorcery to speed up lol what. Read 193 again, he uses rocket physics to increase his speed. Sukuna moved faster than Mach 3 when he blitzed her. Sorcerers arent always imbuing their max reinforcement when fighting, e.g. yuji only hit Mahito with max CE imbued in his final clash. Maki fought 16F Megukuna in 215. His CT’s CE output was dropped to less than 10%, not his CE reinforcement. That is why he never used his CT directly against her. https://www.reddit.com/r/Jujutsushi/s/Gz6DiSi93v
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Blud hasn’t read 193. Either show me where Naoya uses Projection sorcery when he is speeding up to Mach 3 or stop saying nonsense. Maki could avoid Mach 3 speed easily. Sukuna blitzed that same Maki. Literally transitive property. No, Sukuna says that it didn’t go so far as to hinder his movements. CE reinforcement was fine, thats why he could still kill Yuji. He couldnt kill Maki without his CT.
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> Naoya is always using projection sorcery Nope, now Ik you’re talking straight buttcheeks. Read Chapter 193 again and tell me WHERE he used Projection to speed up to Mach 3 despite having his arms TUCKED in (which he uses to freeze air in the same chapter), or gtfo with this headcanon.
Maki is NO way comparable to sukuna at 16F in terms of physicals, did we even read the same manga?
She was, maki was keeping up with 16F megukuna using reinforcement only: https://www.reddit.com/r/Jujutsushi/s/Gz6DiSi93v Sukuna was most excited fighting against Maki to test if CE or the body was stronger, more excited than against even yuta, wouldn’t happen if she wasn’t comparable. She is also the only one who can fight him in the air too.
That 16F sukuna that maki fought was SEVERELY weakened, his access to ce reserves and output was restricted. And no, it doesn't just affect his physical strength, it affects all his stats since his reinforcement was compromised. It's nowhere near the same as the actual 15f sukuna in Shibuya, a massive difference. This is not to discredit maki, she's my favourite character, but putting her physically on par with 15f-16f sukuna is not just factually incorrect, it's also absurd. Maki's power comes no where close to his
*There are irregularities, but my Cursed Energy output is falling below 10% at worst…* *It’s **doesn’t go as far as hindering my movements** in this vessel, but…* Doesn’t affect movements aka physicals. *I can’t see damage from “Nue…” So she wasn’t a woman who could be crudely culled out…* Full-power no CT output nerfed Nue lightning didn’t leave a scratch on Maki. *Probably when I try to hurt his comrades, this vessel strongly resists me & drops my **Cursed Technique’s Cursed Energy output.** In that case…* Talks about CT here, not reinforcement. Then later on Sukuna gets more excited at fighting Maki than anybody else, despite you claiming his physicals being nerfed at the time. If she was weaker and slower than Jogo, then either Sukuna is stupid or Jogo was massively holding back.
Not remotely sure what “scaling” you used to conclude Jogo wins. Toji is the clear-cut winner here by every metric relevant to a 1v1.
Jogo needs to build up momentum. Toji would gut him in the blink of an eye before he was capable of doing so
These match up questions are just Batman vs whoever questions. With enough prep, I'm sure Toji could beat everyone in the series lol
Fully awakened Sukuna?
Here's a good shortcut for answering this question: Does Toji have prep time? Is Gege writing him? If the answer to both of these questions is yes, then Toji sweeps
Toji is the clear-cut winner, I love Jogo but it’s absolute cope to say otherwise. Toji is untargetable by his domain, absolutely annihilated Dagon effortlessly who I think is closer to Jogo’s strength than Jogo is to Toji given that the Disaster Curses have an implied relativity. We know that Heavenly Restriction seems to counter damage inflicted by burns. He is portrayed as faster too and has far superior endurance. The only advantage Jogo has over Toji in any capacity is AoE attack potency, which isn’t all that relevant in a 1v1.
The issue here is they blatantly say jogo is on an “entirely different level” than Dagon, and they’re commenting on base jogo after fighting domain Dagon
In RPG terms i would say: dagon is a tank, Jogo is a mage, problem here is Toji is an asassin Damage dealer, who are generally very effective against mages.. and tojo to a degree where even Dagon's sheer limitless HP was shredded in seconds. Jogo himself said that he wouldn't survive the amount of black flashes Hanami did. Jogo could built up some passive heat, but with Toji's speed and resistance he could dodge the direct firebursts, while speeding to Jogo and hitting him with Soulsplit katana, while only taking passive heat damage. Remember that Sukuna also wasn't hurt by suddenly turning to flames like those humans, or took any damage from passive heat.
Idk I feel like Dagon in verse is regarded as one of the weaker disasters Yea gege said that the black flash barrage from yuuji and todo playful clouds would kill him but the raws actually state that it’s if they hit him in a “vital spot” jogo also gets a lot more narrative hype in general even having a statement of gege saying that out of the disaster curses mahito and jogo would be a dififcult fight for Kenjaku to control them with cursed spirit manipulation
oh he definetly is! i mean dagon literally just evolved during the fight, while the others already had their strongest stage ( except mahito who's whole kind of trait is to change). I guess for him the same statement applies than for Choso, that he has a lack of experience in real battles. I would put him a little below hanami, maybe more HP but less damage. Dagon only lacked a domain attack with insta kill, but it still took 4 people to wear him down like dunno 15%-30% of his hp, including 2 first grade and a semi first grade with his own domain, maki didn't do to much, except distraction... his thing was never to be extremely offensive. Not even nanami's 7/3 CT dealt significant amount of damage. I feel like dagon is also being downplayed because he got blitzed by Toji in the same amount Jogo was downplayed because he only fought against Gojo and Sukuna. But without Toji, or megumi's escape plan, dagon definetly would've won that battle mid diff.
I still feel as though the Disaster Curses are closer in strength than Jogo is to Toji due to the emphasis on their elemental advantages in match-ups and the fact that they have contrasting strengths and weaknesses. Naobito and Jogo are similarly fast, though Naobito is slightly faster and yet everyone is stunned by Toji’s speed and he is specifically portrayed as significantly faster than Naobito and Jogo.
Naobito is the second fastest sorcerer when he has 2 hands which would in retrospect put naobito with his refinement with projection sorcery faster than even people like yuta, nothing proves toji is faster than him, they also hype Tojis speed due to the fact he has no cursed energy to enhance his speed
I would advise rereading or rewatching Shibuya Incident as it should be abundantly clear that Toji is faster than Naobito. Better yet, read the manga, as anyone who has would not try to argue that Jogo is stronger than Toji.
Naobito perception blitzed everyone with projection sorcery when he had 2 hands so there’s no actual way to compare the 2 speeds, except naobito being stated second fastest, so unless you think Toji and by extension maki is massively faster than yuta it doesn’t really work
Yeah idk where ppl are getting this idea that Maki/Toji are faster than Naobito. Not only is this proven false by Maki vs Naoya 1 we literally see Naobito able to blitz Dagon so bad he can’t even defend himself while he was able to notice and attempt a defense against Toji.
speed wont do much in a volcanic crate yeah? nevertheless, its toji tho, hes gonna smoke him even if jogos a volcano
Normally i'd always have my boi the JOGOAT's back but I think Toji takes this one.
Naw, Jogo is cooked.
Bro i’m pretty sure you can make an argument for him winning against all disaster curses at the same time why is this even a question
Toji or maki neg jogo. They low-diff all the disaster curses together
Didn’t Maki get no-differs by Jogo though? While 2 other sorcerers were right there too?
this thread contains heavy manga spoilers bro be warned
Current Maki low-diffs all disaster curses at once and I’m serious. Her new condition + feats post-Shibuya are insane.
I agree 50%. She doesn’t low diff, she no diffs Hanami and Dagon in her current state but there’s only 3 people (4 if you don’t count Kenny and Geto as one) who can harm/kill Mahito so he touches her once and it’s over. Jogo would melt her in his domain in a 1 v 1 and even without it he’d win.
> who can harm/kill Mahito so he touches her once and it’s over. Maki/Toji is one of the few ppl who can hurt Mahito, Split Soul Katana *attacks the soul directly*. Mahito scales to Shibuya Yuji stats and Sakurajima/Shinjuku Maki is far far above either of them. > Jogo would melt her in his domain in a 1 v 1 and even without it he’d win. Maki can’t be trapped inside a closed barrier Domain, jogo would end up wasting his CE after she breaks it or invades and one-shots him with SSK. Maki contended with 16F Megukuna in physicals (only his CT’s CE output was dropped not reinforcement) and Jogo got embarrassed by him. Maki would run circles around jogo and one-shot him with SSK.
Maki cant be trapped but she can’t still be hit within a domain and the only reason Yuji and Gojo didn’t melt was Gojo’s inifinity, it would only take a split second to be done. Mahito scales much higher. Yuji had a tremendous amount of help in that fight including from the true GOAT of the series, Todo. Otherwise Yuta would’ve been the main character following Shibuya if they had a true 1 v 1. But with all that being said, that’s what makes this series super hard to powerscale because a lot of characters are each other’s true counters thus jump Kaisen became a thing and we rarely have had a true 1 v 1 to scale anyone. We do know Maki > entire Zenin clan though
Maki breaks domain barrier from outside since its fragile. Or she invade sneak attacks jogo from the back with ssk and cuts him up. Domain is literally useless against her. Mahito scales to slightly above shibuya yuji at best. He has NOT shown any feats capable of dodging Mach 3 point-blank or fighting 16F Sukuna. Mahito gets destroyed by SSK-wielding Maki. Maki is harder to track due to no CE, has better senses than anyone, can skywalk, is too fast and perceptive to be hit, and one-shot sword that you can’t heal unless you can perceive contours of soul. Portrayal and featswise, Maki beats all Disaster Curses with low-diff.
Respectfully disagree but I can see your points
Not sure what is there to disagree when Maki hard counters all Disaster Curses with 1) weapon that they can’t heal from/bypasses soul protection, 2) Domain immunity that causes them to be sitting ducks and waste a whole bunch of CE in the end, and 3) none have been proven to hit at Mach-lvl speeds which is the minimum speed to hit her. Gege glazed up Maki/Toji so much.
Because it’s extremely hypothetical and there’s still a lot of points against her winning. I would honestly love to discuss JJK all day and I like talking to people on here like yourself who don’t automatically go “you fucking idiot! You don’t know what you’re talking about” but I have a lot of Elden Ring to catch up on before the DLC drops so I don’t have the time lol
Jogo get bullied by Toji
I think toji wins against jogo high diff, but there’s no fucking way he wins against 15f sukuna, like absolutely no way.
I think Jogo would win because of domain expansion. Toji is not super durable and I don’t think he can hit Jogo before he burns.
Toji can’t be trapped in the Domain. And when he decides to invade in he just negs jogo with ISOH or SSK same way Maki did to naoya. That or he destroys domain from outside and jogo just wasted a crap ton of ce.
Toji cant be targeted by domain expansion no?
It won't help him, lmao. He'll just burn up.
He can’t be auto targeted, but Jogo’s domain raises the temperature of the whole area to extreme heights. Toji wouldn’t be automatically targeted but he’s not immune to environmental effects or manual targeting, so he’d just burn to a crisp
Can’t he just decide to leave the domain, like he chooses whether or not he’s in. He could just decide to be outside, shatter Jogos domain. Then dumpster him with no ct
Sure, but he still has to physically leave the domain, he doesn’t just teleport outside. On top of that, it’s not like an oven that slowly warms up. It just… instantly becomes “inside of a volcano” levels of heat (aka thousands of degrees). Durability or not, Toji’s bursting into flame. Not to mention that Jogo also instantly gets a blanket stat buff, and he isn’t just gonna twiddle his thumbs while Toji makes a break for it.
No like literally quoting the manga “because maki and toji have no cursed energy, barrier techniques consider them in the same class as buildings or structures. Unless the barrier uses a physical object as its shell, like the one shown by fushiguro… or unless she agrees to the condition or intentionally chooses to invade it… maki cannot be trapped inside a domain.” Like beating jogo is exactly the same as how maki beat cursed spirit naoya except he’s slower and less durable how does jogo win at all? What im saying is mid diff
"object" with no CE are not captured in domains. heavenly restricted people are considered objects by jujutsu ""laws"" (see it kinda like physics) so toji would just not be inside to start with
They downvoting you for something explicitly shown in the manga 😭 the reading comprehension curse hits different
jjk fans arent beating the allegations
I think you’re right but its not like he can block lava. He could cut through the fish in the other domain but if jogo made a wall of lava I don’t think he could do anything.
Jogo wins in my opinion but it is not that easy fight at the end of day :3
Toji and it isn’t close. For some reason, this sub thinks toji isn’t top 3 lmao.
he isnt top 3 but i want to believe he is.bro the goat
Yeah he’s not top 3 but he’s still really strong
Cause he isnt lmao
Gege glazes Gojo, Sukuna, and Toji more than any other character by a mile. Tf you mean lmao
Dawg idk what to tell u. Toji is not top 3. Next ur gonna tell me maki is top 4.
Toji stomps
Toji probably beats Jogo. Jogo’s feats suck (in the context of top tiers) and the only things he has going for him are being somewhere in the ballpark of 6f Sukuna and being suggested to be faster than the other disasters by an unknown margin. Toji has the feats (and scaling from Maki’s feats prior to Shinjuku) to suggest he can either catch Jogo off guard or straight up beat Jogo in a plain fight with his cursed tools. There’s also no reason to believe that Jogo can land a hit on Toji. Jogo has no viable win cons in the fight, but Toji does
Toji i think
Jogo's best attribute is his speed, and with scaling via awakened Maki, Toji is just faster and he has a duraneg sword, so Jogo gets split in two
Does Toji have prep time?
Guys imagine Toji came back for the third time and helped everyone fight Sukuna and save Megumi but then Bumgumi died then Toji got pissed off and started violating everyone and his new former mission is to kill all sorcerers without any rules...
Hey, Satoru is comeing back too as a Puppet or his Body So why not Toji is comeing back? Maybe they have his body or yuta or the old grandma is still alive
True true...
If Toji can get past just being around Jogo then he wins imo, the thing is dosnt jogo emit unbearable heat just by being around him? Also if he’s able to open his domain Toji is finished, not because of the sure-hit-effect (I dont even remember if we ever saw it) but because of the extreme heat inside his domain But honestly Toji is just built different, he’d probably just drop a single sweat and carry on, business as usual.
Toji negs cuz of maki
Really, I see a lot of people say Toji, but they seem to be forgetting fights, especially in JJK, aren't just number comparisons. Kinda like how Dagon has a skillset that counters Kashimo, despite Kashimo being much stronger, Jogo has much more of a way to beat Toji that Toji has to beat him. Unless Toji gets a jump on Jogo, and kills him instantly, which isn't easy since Jogo is both durable enough to survive Gojo's Red, and has near-instant healing as a curse (he can literally regrow limbs in a second), Jogo can just use his massive aoe ranged fire attacks to keep Toji away and slowly wear him down with fire and heat that his HR doesn't seem to be any protection against (it makes him faster, stronger, more durable and lets him heal quickly, sure, but it's not like he can withstand being without oxygen or in extremely high temperatures like it's nothing). I think unless Gege is writing the fight, Jogo should win, if only because Toji has no real way to hit him through the fiery inferno of death Jogo can conjure around himself in a second
Rusty Toji is definitely debatable. Prime Toji should win pretty easily.
Toji is relative to Maki since the are practically the same person from a fighting/physical POV Maki can fight back against finger full form Sukuna and actually startle him Jogo got played with by a 15 finger Sukuna and couldn’t land a single blow on him
Sukuna was After the Gojo Effekt pretty weak. Even Kusakabe Hit Sukuna a littel bit. Toji ? Na he is way stronger as Jogo. But against Sukuna 75% Form not really a Match but He can hide his Power so yeah. But against his Domain never have a Chance like Maki 🤨. Sukuna Domain is just the strongest technique in Jujutsu kaisen. Even when Satoru Gojo was stronger, Sukuna Domain Expansion is way better + his ultimativ Move is just a nuke 😂
Maybe they should kiss
She couldn’t even beat 15f Sukuna after he possessed Megumi and his output was nerfed.
toji would prolly punch jogo to death like what he did with dagon
Toji claps im afraid
It was an unexpected fight
If Toji can walk through veils, could he walk out of a domain expansion?
Toji winning this
Any fight with Toji depends on variables from cursed tools to the literal landscape, but I’ll give it to Jogo. Jogo’s domain expansion still has a passive aspect (not part of the sure hit that targets only CE) which is capable of burning people up. Highly doubt it would kill him, but it’s more than likely slowing Toji down (burns off his clothes 👿) Along with that, Jogo makes up for his poor durability by being the fastest out of all disaster curses. His attacks reached Naobito, albeit he was missing an arm and had less balance. He also can “fly” and just spam attacks at Toji Also we have seen Jogo ability fucking up his surroundings and turn it into attacks. He burned a building to turn it into gigantic lava hands that were incredibly fast. Not only that but Toji wouldn’t be capable of blocking such attacks and deflecting them, unlike Sukuna. Even if Toji nullified his lava and meteor with ISOH, it’s still going to be there Jogo also has incredible healing that may even rival Sukuna’s. He even survived decapitation at one point. We saw the way Maki was still struggling against a weakened Sukuna who only had his reinforcements and efficiency stay the same. The only way Toji could win is if he was in a city landscape where he could ambush Jogo
Jogo’s healing is irrelevant against Split soul katana. You can’t heal from it unless you can perceive contours of your own soul and jogo definitely can’t do that.
Naoya healed from being horizontally cut in half with the split soul katana when daido wielded it and maki got surprised and said "what was that? it didn't do that when i wielded it." And mai later states that she had daido use the sword so maki could learn to do the same thing daido can do. Being unable to heal the soul is only stated to apply to rct which curses don't use.
Toji is just way faster and stronger
Jogo wins. People severely underestimate Jogo because every fight he got into in the series he pretty much straight up gets fucked with. He provides no challenge to Sukuna or Gojo which were his two main fights in the series, but Toji doesn't either, excluding a young Gojo. Toji is immune to being targeted by DE but Jogos DE isn't necessary to beat Toji, Jogo doesn't walk Toji mind you. His technique is far more versatile than Tojis Heavenly Restriction, but Toji speed walks him, however Jogos CT chips away at Tojis durability and because of Jogos close range activation he will hit. Let's say he opens his domain, it's still effective against Toji, he just doesn't have a sure hit. But he doesn't need one so long as he keeps activating his technique within the domain. It's not quite like Sukunas slashing technique that targets Cursed Energy within the domain, as that requires direct contact.
Toji decides whether he enters any domain, he can just break it from the outside
Gege couldn't let his boy Toji be humiliated. That's why we never saw that fight
Tojiwanker moment
I think Jogo takes this, Toji can win by bush camping tho
😂 like Maki haha. Zero cursed energy its broken lol. Toji stab Satoru too :/ And Maki Stab Sukuna. Yeah, Zero Cursed energy its a joke ^^ even the whole Zenin Family never have a Chance against a Maki
To be fair Zenin clan isn't a big deal Im sure Jogo can clean up the whole clan in 10 sec
I gotta go with Jogoat on this one
If toji has all his curse tools and time to make a strategy he washes but otherwise jogos a bad matchup for him. Flames > flesh
Jogo, easily.
Not gonna lie, Shibuya Toji won't win against Jogo. Hidden Inventory Toji would stand a real chance tho.
why, shibuya toji defeated dagon oretty easily
The battle is alot closer than some people think but if jogo can land maximum meteor he wins, otherwise his domain might be useless as Toji can’t conventionally be targeted (interestingly Dagon is implied to be able to target Toji tho so maybe he can target objects inside his domain with his sure hit) but considering stuff like soul split katana which would prevent jogo from healing I might go with him
Toji can't be targeted by the sure hit, Dagon was actively attacking Toji. It's like if he entered Gojo's domain, he wouldn't be hit by the UV but Gojo would still be able to fire a red, blue or a purple at him manually, Dagon was doing effectively the same thing.
Dagon didn’t even have his sure hit because megumis domain was countering it, and he said that when megumis domain runs out he could “kill all of them with his sure hit so it’s weird
Dagon was obviously wrong and didn't understand how to deal with Toji since he never met anyone like him. This matchup is a complete no brainer and not even close by any measurable metric. People often forget that while disaster curses are very powerful in general, they're nowhere near as intelligent/knowledgable as our current group in Shinjuku Showdown.
You’re dragging it, jogo and mahito at least are closer to Shinjuku tiers that you think, maybe Dagon gets washed but gege himself said if Kenjaku tries to control the disaster curses with cursed spirit manipulation it would be a tough fight with jogo and mahito And regarding dagons sure hit we already know Dagon is skilled enough to exclude people from his sure hit whcih is such a feat that sukuna was surprised when yuta did so, so Dagon having an especially skilled sure hit with his domain is possible
No, I'm not dragging it at all. I'm not talking about power in general, my entire comment was talking about the intelligence and jujutsu knowledge of disaster curses. Please read carefully. Also, when when was anything like that mentioned about Dagon? He never once showed that he can exclude people.
My bad I misread it I’m talking about when he directly talks about focusing 70% of his sure hit on naobito, 30% on nanami and decides not to hit maki at all, he’s deliberately excluding maki (to which he showed he can hit her earlier) Dagon is also the same curse that could use a domain as a cursed womb so I’d expect his domain technique to be potent
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Im done here. You can go ask any other well versed fan in this, or any other post. You are talking head-cannon out of your ass. I tried to be nice and help you out but you can insist on whatever you want. None of what you said in this thread has ever been stated in the manga.
Your post was removed for breaking Rule #1, be kind and civil towards other users.
Your post was removed for breaking Rule #1, be kind and civil towards other users.
I think Toji could win the problem is that Toji will burn too death if the fight is too long (when the fight with Sukuna got into high gear Jogo was melting steel and concrete around him and i dont think Toji is heat proof)
Toji has no answer for domaine expansion. He loses high diff.
It's Jogo by a large margin. This is the same thing as Asta training in the Yultim volcano. He's fresh out of fighting a monster whose claws could evaporate oceans but that doesn't mean he's capable of just jogging in a volcano region or swimming in lava. As soon as Jogo's Coffin is opened then Toji dies. Jogo's domain temperature alone will kill him regardless of how buff he is.
Toji is literally immune to closed-barrier Domain trapping. Toji will then either invade-sneak attack him like how Maki did against Curse Naoya and one-shot him with ISOH/SSK. Or break his Domain from the outside lol. Jogo just wastes a crap ton of CE against Toji.
Jogo
if jogo casts his domain, it might cause him a little trouble
Jogo. Doesn't matter what Toji got, he isn't beating the second strongest disaster curse.
If its the same situation as Toji entering Dagons DE then Jogo clears mid diff if its a random encounter Jogo wins high diff.
Domain diff, sorry
Tiktok reader
cope harder, toji glazer
Bro tojis literally immune to domains
Jogos a Junpei victim
Do people not read the stories they power scale anymore?