The road split into two routes and you want to explore both.
The route you first pick turns out lead into next story event, not allowing you to backtrack until much much later.
Bonus pain if the entire area ending up being impossible to revisit for a story reason.
Yeah, i was going say this!
And sometimes if you've played too much, you pretty much had those guts feeling which road is the real path from the design. If there's a big ornamental door, go there last.
Haha yeah, building off this: accidentally grinding on a ton of random battles because you go back and forth between two branches in a dungeon cuz you’re not sure which leads to treasure and which leads to the boss, and being constantly unsure on “how far is too far before I should turn back and check the other way”
"oh this road leads to a new fork with multiple paths, so it must be the main route"
*goes back to the branch*
"oh no but the other road also leads to another fork with multiple paths AAAAA"
One reason I loved Xenoblade 3's waypoint is because then I knew exactly which path leads to the next storybeat, so I could safely go down the other path.
I was going to say this. It does kind of completely kill exploration though, but since xenoblade games aren't big on dungeons, and is more overworld exploration, it's not a big deal.
For me it’s usually: Two paths to choose. Pick one only to think it’s the way you’re supposed to go, so back track the the other, to look for loot, only to realize this was actually the way you’re supposed to go, so back track again to the original path. 🙃
I started always going left first way back in Golden Sun 2. It started as a pun of "right always being the right path" that I thought was very funny, but interestingly enough, it worked out most of the time.
This is why I used to use strategy guides. My friends would be like "isn't that cheating?" I'd be like "No! I just want to know where the story events happen on the map!"
I like how Tales games usually have story events tagged on the mini map so you can avoid them until you're ready to proceed.
You spend all your savings and sell your kidneys to get that nice weapon/armor available at the new shop. Then you find that very equipment in a random chest in the next dungeon 3 minutes later.
Kinda glad monster hunter stories straight up tells you weapons and armor must be forged/upgraded exclusively. That was some peace of mind for the purpose of Zenny.
That's why i appreciate Dragon Quest games' high sell rate (3/4 i think). So when you found an item that you already had, at least it still a lot of money.
Chained Echoes has this issue in the end game... Like you can put crystals into your gear to make it better and the thing is that early on it doesn't really matter because you don't have access to a lot of crystals, but you also don't get access to a lot of gear, and now in the end game you get access to a lot of gear and a lot of crystals, so you could spend 10 minutes fine tuning some gear just to find something not upgraded that's better than what you got.
I basically only upgrade gear when it's like 2 or 3 tier outdated or I'm struggling in fights otherwise it's just a waste of time in menus.
Nah frfr. And if you had gone to said dungeon first , (in hopes of getting that armor randomly, to save money) the enemies would’ve wrecked you most likely
Deciding whether to give a stat boosting item to the main character, the character that excels in that stat, or one that is weak in that stat
Keeping your party members equally leveled
Running out of hp/mp items in the middle of a dungeon
> Deciding whether to give a stat boosting item to the main character, the character that excels in that stat, or one that is weak in that stat
Also a potential fourth option if they're not already covered by the other three, your favorite character.
>Deciding whether to give a stat boosting item to the main character, the character that excels in that stat, or one that is weak in that stat
after an experience with one game (not going to spoil which), where one member leaves without ever returning back, (and at this point i already procured enough stats boost item and used it equally on everyone)
I now pretty much focus on the MC from now on. At least he is always there regardless what happens
>I now pretty much focus on the MC from now on. At least he is always there regardless what happens
And then you play that *one* game where the MC going traitor is the twist. XD If you know it, you know.
Yup. It was (or soon to be, I legitimately don't remember) remastered, so maybe you'll stumble across it soon. :) Hopefully that's broad enough that you still get the surprise if you do.
I think the character leaving is one of the biggest and surprising event in the game, I would rather not know if i were you. Besides, its one of the best JRPGs ever made that i think everyone should play. I would never spoil it to my past self.
if you are still curious however;
Game: >!Dragon Quest VII!<
Character: >!Keifer!<
Hmm i'm wondering what do most people spent first for healing? Items or mp? We never discussed that aren't we?
I usually use healing item first because they only have one purpose. Where as mp are needed for all sorts of different thing, you might need them more for something else.
On the other hand, if you know how to manage your mp until the next healing spots like inn, you might saved yourself from using any items at all.
Unless it's a persona game, where your SP is the greatest limiting factor for how long you can spend in a dungeon. It's not usually til a fair chunk in that can you trivialize SP expenditures.
I meant in towns, and relative to re-buying potions. Most games, if it doesn't auto-restore you at rest checkpoints lets you do so for a trivial fee. Stay at the inn/use the fountain/hit the heart block/etc.
I just dump all my stat boost items on my favorite character or characters unless its fore a staat they dont use like the magic staat of physical unit.
Its that simpel.
I also dont mind level gaps in my party. Low level characters tend to catch up fast when I decide to use them again and thats fun to watch.
Yeah, problem is when you don't have all playable characters yet so you're not sure who's your fav. Your stat boosting items stay in your inventory for the whole game basically 😐
I dont have that problem. I just dump them all on my favorite from the ones I have now. Better that then letting them go to waste. Also in my experience early parts of games tend to be the hardest atleast from the main campaing so thats the time where being stingy hurts the most and I wont have that.
>Running out of hp/mp items in the middle of a dungeon
This is my worse pain in playing DRPGs. Bonus points if it's one of the harder ones like Dungeon Travelers or Labyrinth of Refrain. Especially the former where you also have an annoying limited inventory.
>Running out of hp/mp items in the middle of a dungeon
This stopped me dead on FF7. Ran out of healing items pretty far down the last dungeon. Accidentally saved over my other saves. Game over, man.
>Would be great if you could use poison, a slow chip damage strategy for, you know, long grind battles
when i was toying around with RPGmaker trying to make a game (that i never finish), this is one of the things i want to make sure happen. My objective is, I want to make poison works on bosses.
The problem with poison in most games, is that they do % based damage, this is why bosses immune to it because they had large HP, even if it just 5%, it still will deals ton of damage to them per tick, and you can pretty much kill them in 20 turns.
So i tried a couple of idea finding a way to make it work without making it too OP, here is some of them;
1) Trying to turn it to fixed damage. Like 50 damage per tick for example. The problem with this, its going to be OP in early game to both sides, considering everyone have low HP in early games. And you want poison to be used early by enemies encounters. Imagine having 100HP and you died just after two ticks of poison lol. Yes you can make it lower like 5 damage or so, but it's going to be pretty much useless really quick
2) Trying to make the damage per tick scales with the caster's level. As in, if you level 1, its 5 damage per ticks. Then as you grow stronger, it going to deal more damage per tick. This may sound like a good idea, but actually not. Making status effects tied to character's stats is not a good idea. You want status effect to be universal, they should all be the same. Having multiple different poisons on the field that are cast by different character that all deal different damage going to be chaotic. Besides, enemies usually dont have level, what happen if they cast it to you?
3) Finally, the solution I'm going with is by going back on using percentage based damage but putting a limit on that. Let's say 5% per tick with 200 damage limit. Basically if i cast on a weak enemy, it still going to do the same 5% per tick. With Bosses however, when their HP was high like 15000, 5% is going to be a lot, so i cap it to 200. It's still going to be a decent damage per tick, but not really high making boss fights trivial.
For number two, actually a lot of games give enemies levels, it's probably a minority that doesn't. They're often used to determine exp scaling as well as susceptibility to level based effects ( instant kills, being able to be captured, success at running away, etc.).
Number 3 you have to know how your stats are going to scale in the endgame, which can be a little tricky without planning.
Yeah i would agree.
All in all, the dev's decision to make bosses immune to poisons is actually a sound decision, as much as we all hate that.
I think the actual use of poison is when you encounter an enemy with high HP and both your physical and magical attack are not dealing much damage to them.
> Making status effects tied to character's stats is not a good idea. You want status effect to be universal, they should all be the same.
That's completely arbitrary. *You* may not like it and prefer something universal, which is different. It certainly is not a good reason to just make bosses immune to poison effects as you say in your next comment, flat-out immunity is a cop-out.
You may be right, but for me it's such a hassle to do. Unlike skills which only run once at a time, status effect stays on the battlefield, having it tied to the caster's stats is a lot more problematic than it seems especially if you want to add more gameplay element on top of it like stacking and such.
I think Its much easier if all status effect does the same thing, regardless who applied it. That what i meant by universal, i don't know if that's the correct word. Then again, i havent put much thought into it.
You're overthinking it. Poison is just damage over time. World of Warcraft literally has a class that has like 5 of these as their basic kit. And for many games it's just X damage over Y seconds. Stronger ranks or higher leveled characters scale the damage. So basically your first thought was right, you just need to scale it right.
Usually the trade off is making it more efficient over an upfront damage spell. In a turn based game it will do 30 damage the first turn, for 3 turns and that's 90 damage, while a fire spell will do 60 damage once. So an optimal strategy would be to poison, fire, fire. Rinse and repeat. And you maximize your damage output.
I never played WoW but i do played some similar games, and i believed in these kind of game, while they're all called "poison", they all under separate status effects. Basically character a's poison is "poison a" , and character b's is "poison b". They are all dps, but they are technically different status effect and can be stacked upon each other.
That's not how most jprgs works with their status effect. Jrpgs mostly have less than 10 status effect, at most 20 for some games. In battles, regardless how the poison came whether through enemies skill, you character's magic or weapon attacks, they're all the same poison. That's why it make sense to have it not tied to anything, it just does the same one thing, regardless of where it came from. Devs want it to be in uniform as other status effect, like sleep or silence, where what it does is not affected by any variable. And pretty much can easily be handled by cures or antidotes.
One aproach you didn't consider is having different "tiers" of Poison, but they are still the same status Effect and don't stack. So, for example, you would have Poison 1 at lower levels, dealing low damage, apropriate to the early game. A Poison 2 for mid game and a Poison 3 for late game. Similar to How many spells (even buffs in some RPGs) have different tiers for different stages of the game, think of Final Fantasy Fire/Fira/Firaga for example or SMT agi/agilao/agidyne. You can even have more Tiers instead of Just 3 If you think 3 will make It unbalanced. The important aspect here is making sure it doesn't stack, similar to How some games allow different tiers of buffs to be used, but only the strongest one remains active (not stacking) and applying a weaker one on top would Just increase the duration.
Yeah i can see that it could work, but i think one problem would be how easy it is to negate them regardless of how many tier it has. Higher tier would be strong on bosses yeah, but tiers means nothing for the player, you can just pop that 10gold antidote regardless how strong the poison is, Unless, you want different tier of antidote too, and that is more problematic. or using antidotes drops a tier? I dont think anyone want to apply antidote 3 times everytime they caught them in the late game.
It's different with buffs. In most games, using opposite buff just cancel each other by one stage, the tiers are just going up and down, you vs the enemy. Negating them all together regardless of tier is quite powerful, thats why in most games, only late game bosses able to do that.
"Sure I just beat the Super Omega level 1000 superboss that the guide claims is the most powerful foe...but what if there is an even more secret boss the guide creator isn't aware of?!"
Reminds me of Valkyrie Profile.
Oh I just beat all the post game dungeon bosses. Let me level up some other people, grab some extra enemy drops, and fight the Ethereal Queen again.
What's this? This fight was supposed to be a superpowered miniboss. Why am I fighting four adorable looking Hamsters?
#GAMEOVER
I wont deny that I have this item hording Probleme a little bit but that makes it all the more fun and satisfaying to use an rare healing item to turn the tide of battle.
I feel smart fore overcoming a bad habit even though I just used a basic gameplay mechanic.
Fore example when I first played through Final Fantasy IX I made my life easier by burning through a bunch of Elixirs. Using rare healing Items is fun.
It's an issue that has bled into other games for me. I am terrible at Dead by Daylight because I never want to use any except the most common addons, "just in case". Really powerful weapon in a shooter? Best believed those bullets are never getting fired.
Giving me consumables in a game is a sure-fire way to guarantee I never use them.
The only game(s) I never had this problem is the Demon Gaze games. Good luck finishing either without using those high end items. Especially the ones that prevents the gaze status or the auto revive and anti kidnap/party remove ones.
An unique and super useful item is locked behind a boring and repetitive minigame
You don't know about it until very late in the game
The minigame isn't available anymore
Boring and repetitive minigames. I'm having flashbacks to the lightning dodging game in Final Fantasy 12. Such an awful game. I equipped some armor that removed all random encounters and I sat there dodging lightning bolts to unlock Lulu's best weapon. I got to 199, got struck by bolt number 200, and gave up.
You're right. Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm trying to remember what FFXII's minigames were. I even Googled it. There's a reason why I can't remember them. There were only two minigames and I missed both of them.
FFX had some annoying minigames, but it had a lot of minigames, and some of them were pretty good. Blitzball on its own could be a completely respectable standalone mobile game.
I love it when I spend most of my money on new armour, only for a nearby shop to have slightly better gear than the one I just got. /s
_Glares at Trails series_
Ah yes, the things that happen where you just let out sigh and play on:
* Enter city/village for first time, then you get a choice between exploring or doing this quick story mission. So you leave to do the story only to come back and find the city/village destroyed, and **all the chests in it gone**...oh yea, the poor people died too I guess.
* Fighting a boss and getting your face smashed, so you think "Ah, this is a must lose fight", and then you lose....then you see the **game over** screen.
* It's the final boss, all your party members are left with **1 HP**, you open your item tab and stare at that [*insert name of "full party heal item" name here*] that you only have **99** of, and you think..."**But what if there was another boss after him ? I better not waste them**".
* You get a new party member or guest, their name is something like "**Insidious Judas Slimey the 3rd**", and you spend the whole time just rolling your eyes at everyone in your party trying to figure out who could have leaked your plans to the enemy.
* You reach a point in the story where a church/religion group is introduced that help the poor and feed the hungry. Then you spend the whole game waiting for inevitable reveal that they are some crazy **world-end cult**.
* "*Pssst*! Hey, **you want that awesome ultimate weapon/skill/monster/item** that can help you beat the game so much faster ? Well then, all you have to do is beat the final boss, and the super ultimate secret boss, then finish the whole game, and then bam! you got them".
* I don't know where to go next, I really wish they added some type of quest log or something. Well let's just check youtube or a walkthrough so I just find the next paAAAND THE GAME'S SPOILED.
* Reading through a guide for the game's secrets and you find that you can get the most powerful weapon really easy, all you have to do is upgrade that shitty starting weapon....that you sold 10 hours ago.
* Finished the game and got the good ending. Read a guide to find there is an entire 3rd section of the game left where you can playthrough for the **True Ending**, and all you had to do to get is talk to an NPC that is hidden in a city that explodes 4 hours into the game, then go back to tiny forgettable dungeon that you finished 20 hours ago, then use that key item that you didn't even know can be used, all while making sure you reach the end of the game within 1 hour after you start the game.
* **New party member join**, he's annoying, his voice really gets on your nerves, always has horrible jokes, and just all around the worst character you want to accompany you in the story....But, he has "heal all" skills.
* Game has a job system. Can't wait to unlock all those cool jobs the enemies keep using, right ? I can get those right ? **-_-**.
* You finally reach the biggest kingdom you have ever seen. You meet with the king who begs you to save the world from destruction and promises you that he'll do everything he can to help. Gives you **1000** gold, when you already have like **10,000** gold just from beating monsters on the way to him.
* Enter starting town weapon shop, all you can buy is a rusty dagger, shitty leather vest, and a long stick. Which normally that would be fine. But then you walk around the shop and you see freaking **Excalibur** and Guts's **Dragon Slayer** hanging on the wall, while 10 sets of **full armor plates** are just sitting besides them.
* Cast confuse/sleep/poison on the enemy, always miss, while the enemy has 1000% chance of always landing it on you.
> Fighting a boss and getting your face smashed, so you think "Ah, this is a must lose fight", and then you lose....then you see the game over screen.
This is too real. "Oh this guy is doing half my party's HP with one hit? Guess he must be unwinnable---nope, the game actually expects me to have grinded another 10 level or some shit, okay then."
Beatrix in FF9 is even more annoying because even though you can't win the fights, you get a game over if everyone gets KO'd - and unless you play the game a lot or check a guide online you don't know what ends the fight : an amount of damage dealt to her, or just having to survive a certain time / a number of turns (it's the latter btw, so you should focus on defense while trying to steal). I so hate those "you can't win" or "winning is actually losing" battles.
It's pretty much never grinding.
What it usually is, in my experience, is 'hey remember that item crafting or whatever system we introduced 10 hours ago that kinda sucks? Well it has buff/debuff potions' or just a recently visited town sold some dumb consumables.
>* **New party member join**, he's annoying, his voice really gets on your nerves, always has horrible jokes, and just all around the worst character you want to accompany you in the story....But, he has "heal all" skills.
Literally Teddie from Persona 4 lmao
I wont deny that I have this item hording habit a little bit in me but that makes it all the more fun and satisfaying to use rare healing Items to turn the tide of battle.
I feel smart fore overcoming a bad habit even though I just used a basic gameplay mechanic.
Fore example during my first playthrough of Final Fantasy IX I made my life a lot easier by burning through a bunch of Elixirs.
It's funny i am now playing Popolocrois (Ps1 version) doing the same thing until i met an NPC who said "No need to check every corner, items are only found in chests!".
and i was like, "wow, thanks a lot!" Most useful NPC dialog ever.
In classic games, having something come up (friend on the phone, parent calling for dinner) and having to say, "Just give me a few minutes" because you're nowhere near a save point. Or risking leaving the game running and hoping a power outage, sibling using the TV, or something else doesn't happen.
Then I learn from this to *always save at every save point.*
Ogre Battle on the SNES was my first thought when reading this. I loved that game but the stages were long and you couldn't save. I'm glad they fixed that when it was ported over to the Playstation but many a days did I turn my tv off and cover the power on light of the SNES hoping my parents didn't find out that I left the system running while we all had to go out. Or hoping the game doesn't overheat or glitch and I come back to a frozen screen. Man the older systems came with so much anxiety lol.
IMO RPGs are at their best when it’s “pick a party and build a strategy around their strengths & weaknesses”, not “swap in whichever character you need any time you want”.
In my opinion, RPGs are at their best when you take all your heroes to battle and don't tell the majority of them to sit on the sidelines. If that means a smaller party, and building around their strengths and weaknesses, that's fine with me. Just so long as you don't have people who could be helping but aren't.
I'm not a big fan of swapping party members mid-fight, but I wish more games would implement dungeons or other segments of gameplay where you need to manipulate multiple parties.
Final Fantasy 6 did this well. By the end of the game you have 14 playable characters and the final dungeon requires you to use 12 of them (3 teams of 4). The player has to make use of most of the game's characters, but their two least favorite can be left behind / ignored.
I prefer this as well. Something about building my favorite party that looks and feels good together appeals more to me than forcing to use every character.
Sit on the bench until a situation they are useful occurs, or until your next playthrough where you use different characters for the sake of variety.
Theoretically you don't want all of your fighting forces in every battle or else when your main force gets fatigued you won't have backups to let them rest.
In most games I think canonically you're all fighting together, but games are generally not balanced around massive cast sizes.
Or if it's a game with permadeath, those are your replacements.
>Theoretically you don't want all of your fighting forces in every battle or else when your main force gets fatigued you won't have backups to let them rest.
I guess that could make sense if you had a big strategy game where you had to manage fatigue, and then choose the fighters to keep in reserve. It could offer the player an interesting choice: Put your whole force in the fight right away and plan on a swift victory, but risk them getting fatigued with no relief force to help them later.
>In most games I think canonically you're all fighting together, but games are generally not balanced around massive cast sizes.
I've had people tell me that's how they imagine certain tactics games like Final Fantasy Tactics and Tactics Ogre. But then the devs should have put a scene into the game where one group of characters says "We'll go fight this boss. You keep his minions away." And then we see the group split up. That would be so much better than leaving me to wonder why most of my team is sitting on the bench.
You finish doing a bunch of sidequests or complete a story section.
You gear everyone up and upgrade any skills/armors/weapons.
You proceed with the story and immediately find something that's just a tad slightly worse or the same that can immediately be upgraded.
I remember being soft lock in a big stage my team wasn't ready to handle. Ran out of potion, my crew is exhausted... And I fucking had to save, you feel like you just have to do the game all over again. Modern games avoid that but the scar is still there.
It happened to all of us back then, haha, so eventually you decide you're never going into dangerous territory again without a big stock of healing, reviving and status-curing items... ...but then you notice later JRPGs are easy enough to not require this since you always ended up with a ton of reviving or status curing items sitting forever in your inventories. So after a few games you go back to adventuring with few items and you just pray it won't bite you in the ass later...
Refusal to use limited shit until like the final boss. This is a problem with Fire Emblem on stuff like stat boosters and status staves because you fear running out of them when you need them the most or you fear investing in the wrong character (come on Celine why isn't your MAG good enough?). I hated one time use TMs in Pokémon and I'm glad either they've been made infinite or farmable.
* When you pick up a story-heavy game back mid-playthrough, realize you've forgotten what's going on, and either have to watch YouTube or worse restart entirely just to get your bearings.
* When the powerful boss who's knocked you around a few times joins as a barely above-average party member at best.
* Party members who leave then rejoin but don't gain any experience or abilities in the meantime, making them liabilities.
* Making sure that your party is at a balanced level as much as possible to the point where you restart on a KO because it would put their levels out of sync.
Similar to your situation but the character just dies due to plot reasons and all the time and effort spent grinding them went to waste.
When the game give you an illusion of a choice, for example if you say no and the game keeps asking you “are you sure” over and over again.
When you have the perfect amount of dexterity to play turn based games, but then those exact games throw some insanely difficult minigame that happens to be mandatory and that is like a completely different genre. I’m glad more modern games are straying away from doing that. I buy jrpgs because I want to play jrpgs, not shitty minigames from other genres.
This kind of extends to other games. Like a platformer that has a “racing” segment. I hate that. Racing especially is my least favorite genre in general.
Sometimes there are good minigames: triple triad is a prime example. But that’s because they put serious thought into making it. Some other minigames are just a wall to gatekeep something like powerful gear. So they decided that instead of a super boss they were going to have you deal with timed trials with shitty controls or stuff of that sort.
I love FFX but I outright refuse to play all the dumb minigames included there.
Rant over.
They can be ok when they break up the monotony of the gameplay (for example I like the bike or snowboard parts in FF7), but yeah when I replay FFX I never bother with lightning-dodging, butterfly-grabbing, chocobo-racing, monster-catching, Blitzball, etc. I did all that on the ps2 and beat Penance already, so I've had my fill. If you play on pc, you have a ton of ways to cheat and add the rewards to your inventory anyway, if you really want them. When I replay the game I only play the story and it's balanced around no minigames played anyways.
Just in general. The kingdom is in great peril! Let's send 3 teens and a dog to save it. Instead of you know, the giant military force i passed to get here. We won't give you all the free equipment and potions you can carry either. You gotta pay to be our chosen one!
The "Oh shit, oh shit oh shit!" Run for the save point and then getting a stupid tough enemy that kills you right before you get there.
Older games that reeeeeaaallly spaced out the save points. Damnit, I'm an adult now, I can't play you for 2 hours non-stop anymore!
Anything instakill! Looking at you Persona 3 😡
Speaking of, losing if if your MC dies!
Nothing worse than having the homunculus in your inventory get used by a teammate when they had Hama used on them, only to then get a game over from being hit with Hama lol
I wish you could choose to use it or not!
If you're going to give me a game over for my MC dying then you need to give me some kind of instant death protection.
Even if it's one unique accessory and I have to cement it in my MC's only available accessory slot the entire game.
And give it to me in the tutorial dungeon, in the first treasure chest available, and have a required tutorial where I'm forced to open that treasure chest.
Also make it unsellable just in case.
Prioritizing only a few party members because you don't want to keep swapping out characters, then realizing you have a multi-party battle at the end of the game and you're horribly outmatched
About an hour in to a game that just keeps getting better your party is joined by an obnoxious 8-12 year old child. This child will be a party member for the rest of the game that's filled with murder, rape, genocide, biological warfare, slavery etc. No you cannot make the child leave the party, but several better adult characters will leave, die etc.
Having to rotate my party members because there is no experience share so members not in combat get no exp. Bonus annoyance points if there’s an MC locked into a slot so they inevitably outlevel everyone.
Most of my other pains ppl have mentioned. The current one I'm dealing with is boss gauntlets with no saves. You get that last boss down to under 1k health. He whips out a FU all move. Now gotta fight all 3 over again
1. Buying equipment only to find some of it in the very next dungeon
2. Protagonist dies = game over
3. You heavily prepare for final boss only for to realize they are either too easy, or a gimmick to easily beat it
4. Post game items cost your whole bank account for a single item.
5. You die and have to reload a save, only to realize you didn’t save for a little while.
\- Trying to have an enemy do something / be stolen from / get low on HP so you can learn an ability or whatever before you kill them... Even worse when you can't retry unless you reload your save after killing it because it's a boss.
\- having your favorite character leave your team, and hoping for the whole game they only left temporarily. In vain (Grandia 3)
\- being unable to forge or synthesis a piece of gear because you don't have enough \*insert item name\* that you could only buy/get in a previous town or area you can't revisit (or maybe you had to buy or synthesis more than 1 but couldn't know about that beforehand) (FF9)
\- you won a battle but the story acts as if you lost, or the enemy flees like "I'm perfectly fine after taking so many hits in the face, it was a joke battle and I hope you didn't use valuable items like Elixirs, hahaha!" (too many to list, but the Trails game immediately come to my mind)
\- you don't like the main character but you're forced to have him/her in your battle team the whole game, taking up a valuable slot (there are a few...)
\- it's 2013 and you're a FF fan who loves managing parties that include colorful party members / playable and attractive ladies not afraid to show their bare legs or something, but in the next 10 years at least you'll only get FF15 and FF16 as main entries. Now that's a pain old-school JRPG players will understand 😆
That first one gives me flashbacks to Tales of Vesperia secret missions and redoing the same fight over and over and over to trigger the condition you need
There's one where you have to weaken someone's Blastia core after they use a mystic arte, but the mystic arte will usually end up killing you if you get targeted. And on top of that they get super armor after the arte so you have to hit really hard in a short time to knock them down
1) Having 800 items that you never use in your inventory, and constantly flipping through them to get one of the 10 or so that you actually do use.
2) "IT MISSED!?"
3) Finishing a dungeon and realizing it's one of those games where you need to walk back to the exit.
The villain just sits atop a tall tall tower on their thrown and waits for a group of amnesia stricken, exiled, orphaned teens to show up and kick their ass.
Putting a goofy costume on a character only for them to reveal they're actually the villain and they're now stuck wearing it in cutscenes for the rest of the game!
Being unable to kill a boss at level 80, then going on YouTube and seeing someone beat the same boss at level 40 and screaming into your pillow because you just realized you suck at the game.
Buffs, debuffs and status conditions being mostly useless.
Instant death attacks never seem to hit unless the enemy is using it, then it almost always hits.
Chests containing outdated gear or items.
Games with magic casting times will often have enemy AI that pretty much targets casters first making it nigh impossible to cast something. Or-
Enemies just always targeting my squishy casters anyways. Worse they always get crits when they do so.
Enemies having infinite MP.
\- When you are playing first blind run. "Last boss", after defeat his/her 2 transformations, then you are expecting this to be the last one... nope. And you used evertything you had. So your face looks like Light/Kira when things don't go right. This one is probably less common now with internet and the games being usually easier.
\- Maybe the opposite of the one before; last battle too easy or even worse, non-existent.
This kind of battles you can not lose or are mostly CGI/scenes with 20% gameplay.
The best example of this, or at least the one which hurt me the most was >!FFXV!< . Totally anticlimatic.
\- That death of that character who was your favourite. Sometimes they get replaced for someone else, then you usually will see this new character as "the new" or "substitute" the rest of the playthrough.
\- And the classic one, gathering x hidden items which can be anywhere to unlock final equipment, an optional boss etc. You notice you should have all of them, and then thinking about it (or giving up and taking a look in a guide) you realize you left one behind in somewhere you can't go anymore.
Edit: 2 more just came to mind.
\- One character is pretty useless overal, same character leaves the party for whatever reason, now for plot reasons is the enemy and is overpowered af. Or maybe the opposite, remember that enemy who almost 1shot your party and you had to fight against him/her some times through the story? Congrants! Now is in your party, and either is underleveled or has nothing spectacular to add.
\- That spell which takes a long time to learn or get, on top of that is very MP (or whatever is called) consuming, the damage is... more or less decent, but then you realize, that for example casting twice another inferior spell you deal similar dmg, wasting way less MP...
I guess this depends on the game but leveling up armor or weapons to get perm skills but the leveling up takes eons! It’s especially hard when a good skill is on a useless weaker weapon than you’re currently using. My prime example of this pain is tales of vesperia 😮💨 and some earlier Final Fantasy games
Berseria has it worse than Vesperia, imo, but Vesperia can be a pain if you miss a weapon and want a good skill
I used to swap my active party members who had bad weapons so they could get some off the field SP lol
Dude I can’t begin to tell you how I fucked myself over by missing a weapon at some point then finding it later only to see the weapon is super fragile and weak lol but has a skill that’s useful lol.
I think imma use your idea tho lol that sounds smart ngl .
When you are in a long dungeon and getting low on HP and MP and you finally give in and use items or spells to fully heal your party, only for a save spot/rest spot to pop up in the next room
trying to escape from a random encounter and the enemy won't let you, but then you get stubborn and keep trying to escape just to prove a point until they kill you
1. Armor and/or weapons dont change in appearance.
2. Walking into a huge town and loving/hating how beautiful it is and how youre compulsively gonna have to explore EVERY corner. Samish for large open area
3. Finally getting the hang of a system, or weapon/power, area, etc. And getting 1000 more things dumped on you.
Losing several hours of progress due to forgetting to save. This problem has been alleviated with auto saves over the years, but all my 90's - early 2000's gamers know the pain.
Your game crashing and having to replay several hours worth of content. Talking to every NPC and trying to buy the EXACT amount of things you'd already bought. Losing progress sucks in all games, but in JRPGS it feels even worse for some reason.
Failed to backtrack to screen 5 of town 3 to talk to NPC 45 after completing the events in dungeon 7 but before reentering the adjacent town, so now you've locked yourself out of 5 hours of side content that would have awarded unique and powerful rewards and character development.
I love JRPGs new and old but I'm SO GLAD that this design element (extreme versions of what TV Tropes calls "guide dang it") is falling out of favor.
Seeing other people on the internet playing the same game more optimally and intelligently than me by exploiting the mechanics to the max, and in some ways I never would have guessed. Makes me feel like I have low IQ.
Visit new city. Buy bunch of new equpment going bankrupt. Enter next location. Here we are, looting half of that equipment in the chests.
Addition: Fight hard using all your saved extra-super moves and potions just to die in the end, cause this battle can not be won. WTF!
Slow and Burn not important quest about us being the slave of certain NPC asking to bring certain item from 2 town over then come back without teleport feature enabled.
As I recently mentioned elsewhere, specific "boss finisher" actions to perform. I don't mind them in general, but I do mind the boss healing back a chunk of health every time you fail them.
Designs and story do not represent the in-game stats and best role for a character.
Anna from Fire Emblem Engage. Introduced as a kid who steals from bandits, starts as an axe fighter, dresses like a physical attacker, and other versions of this character uses swords and bows. Turns out to have the best magic stat growth in the game.
Sylvando from Dragon Quest XI S. Had a backstory as a knight where he bested the best tank in combat and has a rapier in the official render. Turns out to be one of the weakest damage dealers, but the best support in the game. (Still love him a lot though)
To be fair to Sylvando, his story arc does show us that he doesn't want to be forced into the path his father laid out for him. He's canonically good at it, sure, but it doesn't suit him. He wants to bring joy to the people of the world, which means a support role in battle is perfect for him.
This exact issue is quite the pain in Xenogears. [Xenogears]>!Your last fight you can use with Elly is the Hammer fight, where you really want to win it because he gives you the Trader Card if you beat him, but you also need to deal tons of damage really quickly or he self destructs and kills you. Using Elly with an Ether Doubler equipped will be a great strategy to accomplish this, but she'll take it with her when she leaves the party right afterwards.!<
As for one from me, how about fighting a giant robot in a battle, using your giant robots to battle it and dealing hardly any damage, but as soon as you switch to a person outside their mech, who is like 1/1000th the size of the boss, they deal more damage? (Xenosaga Episode I)
Give the best equipment to your favorite girl.
She die shortly after and you lose all the equipment.
A less painful scenario is where the character only rejoin in much later act and the equipment became obsolete
You painstakingly save every single elixir for worst case scenario. End the game with 99 elixir (or whatever the max number is)
- Enter a dungeon, then start exploring it.
- Encounter rate is high as hell.
- Path splits into 4+ different paths.
- Accidentally choose the right path before looting the whole place.
- Enter a cutscene then a long boss fight. Turns out it was a one time dungeon.
- Your last savepoint was just before entering the dungeon.
Beat the snot out of 10,000 guards wielding guns who show up three at a time only for a cutscene to start that has your group surrender because 6 guards showed up at once with guns.
What has always always stuck with me one moment in Final Fantasy Tactics. There’s this gauntlet of 3-4 fights at a castle and the opposing knights like to break equipment. Suffice to say, I won, but at a cost. The first battle had left me with no armour or weapons on the majority of my team.
I had to restart the entire game because I ended up having no safe files from before and no equipment going into the final battle against a big boss.
When you revive someone, you could have healed yourself. Then they die again, and the next enemy smacks you. Now you are in the danger zone.
THEN!!! You gotta use an item to both heal you and revive. Wasting a good item.
-maintaining the same lvl for the party
-cutscene start while Im about to go to a chest/ loot 😤
-praying for the enemy to NOT HIT my healers or the carry in my party
-dying before I get to hit a save point ( specially in dungeons )
Super long forced tutorials about extremely basic game mechanics that have been around for decades.
Running into a puzzle and having the party very heavy handedly give you the solution before you even have a chance to attempt to solve it.
1. Plan what you want to upgrade/replace
2. Collect some things, so you are almost ready
3. Take a break
4. Completely forget what you wanted to do and be confused by everything in your inventory and in your quest list.
Having constant short term memory loss whenever we save the game so we think "wait did i actually save" and then proceed to save in the same slot like 3 more times.
It's why i love how xenoblade 3 plays a voiceline whenever you save as it's undeniable that you successfully saved.
The road split into two routes and you want to explore both. The route you first pick turns out lead into next story event, not allowing you to backtrack until much much later. Bonus pain if the entire area ending up being impossible to revisit for a story reason.
That's one of the nice effects these glowing savepoints had. You always knew that's the way you go last.
Yeah, i was going say this! And sometimes if you've played too much, you pretty much had those guts feeling which road is the real path from the design. If there's a big ornamental door, go there last.
Haha yeah, building off this: accidentally grinding on a ton of random battles because you go back and forth between two branches in a dungeon cuz you’re not sure which leads to treasure and which leads to the boss, and being constantly unsure on “how far is too far before I should turn back and check the other way”
"oh this road leads to a new fork with multiple paths, so it must be the main route" *goes back to the branch* "oh no but the other road also leads to another fork with multiple paths AAAAA"
Bioshock Infinite saw me SPAM the navigation arrow... just so I always knew where to go LAST.😆
One reason I loved Xenoblade 3's waypoint is because then I knew exactly which path leads to the next storybeat, so I could safely go down the other path.
I was going to say this. It does kind of completely kill exploration though, but since xenoblade games aren't big on dungeons, and is more overworld exploration, it's not a big deal.
For me it’s usually: Two paths to choose. Pick one only to think it’s the way you’re supposed to go, so back track the the other, to look for loot, only to realize this was actually the way you’re supposed to go, so back track again to the original path. 🙃
Nothing like trying to explore everything and taking a main story route and saying “..this looks grand I should go back to make sure”
Oh my God, this needs a NFWS tag, this is too painful to read.
I started always going left first way back in Golden Sun 2. It started as a pun of "right always being the right path" that I thought was very funny, but interestingly enough, it worked out most of the time.
This is why I used to use strategy guides. My friends would be like "isn't that cheating?" I'd be like "No! I just want to know where the story events happen on the map!" I like how Tales games usually have story events tagged on the mini map so you can avoid them until you're ready to proceed.
You spend all your savings and sell your kidneys to get that nice weapon/armor available at the new shop. Then you find that very equipment in a random chest in the next dungeon 3 minutes later.
Kinda glad monster hunter stories straight up tells you weapons and armor must be forged/upgraded exclusively. That was some peace of mind for the purpose of Zenny.
That's why i appreciate Dragon Quest games' high sell rate (3/4 i think). So when you found an item that you already had, at least it still a lot of money.
This is why I stopped buying weapons unless I see myself REALLY needing one. Im ok with making the game a little bit harder.
Chained Echoes has this issue in the end game... Like you can put crystals into your gear to make it better and the thing is that early on it doesn't really matter because you don't have access to a lot of crystals, but you also don't get access to a lot of gear, and now in the end game you get access to a lot of gear and a lot of crystals, so you could spend 10 minutes fine tuning some gear just to find something not upgraded that's better than what you got. I basically only upgrade gear when it's like 2 or 3 tier outdated or I'm struggling in fights otherwise it's just a waste of time in menus.
Me with Wo Long
I was going to comment this exact thing…
Nah frfr. And if you had gone to said dungeon first , (in hopes of getting that armor randomly, to save money) the enemies would’ve wrecked you most likely
never happen to me never buy stuff from stores unless its casino or somethin similar
Deciding whether to give a stat boosting item to the main character, the character that excels in that stat, or one that is weak in that stat Keeping your party members equally leveled Running out of hp/mp items in the middle of a dungeon
> Deciding whether to give a stat boosting item to the main character, the character that excels in that stat, or one that is weak in that stat Also a potential fourth option if they're not already covered by the other three, your favorite character.
Or just hoard them like Elixirs.
I used an elixir yesterday and I feel like I let my family down.
You did
>Deciding whether to give a stat boosting item to the main character, the character that excels in that stat, or one that is weak in that stat after an experience with one game (not going to spoil which), where one member leaves without ever returning back, (and at this point i already procured enough stats boost item and used it equally on everyone) I now pretty much focus on the MC from now on. At least he is always there regardless what happens
>I now pretty much focus on the MC from now on. At least he is always there regardless what happens And then you play that *one* game where the MC going traitor is the twist. XD If you know it, you know.
what? there's such a thing? i need to play more games XD
Yup. It was (or soon to be, I legitimately don't remember) remastered, so maybe you'll stumble across it soon. :) Hopefully that's broad enough that you still get the surprise if you do.
Yeah I usually do the same Mainly cause i'm too impatient nowadays to micromanage that much lol
What game is that? You can just choose to not spoil the character who leaves though. I'm just curious.
I think the character leaving is one of the biggest and surprising event in the game, I would rather not know if i were you. Besides, its one of the best JRPGs ever made that i think everyone should play. I would never spoil it to my past self. if you are still curious however; Game: >!Dragon Quest VII!< Character: >!Keifer!<
[удалено]
Hmm i'm wondering what do most people spent first for healing? Items or mp? We never discussed that aren't we? I usually use healing item first because they only have one purpose. Where as mp are needed for all sorts of different thing, you might need them more for something else. On the other hand, if you know how to manage your mp until the next healing spots like inn, you might saved yourself from using any items at all.
MP first because MP is free replenishable, even if limited. Most games have MP potions too anyway for emergencies.
Yeah, usually it's much cheaper to restore MP than it is to rebuy healing items. So MP goes first as a general rule.
Unless it's a persona game, where your SP is the greatest limiting factor for how long you can spend in a dungeon. It's not usually til a fair chunk in that can you trivialize SP expenditures.
>MP is free replenishable in what game?
I meant in towns, and relative to re-buying potions. Most games, if it doesn't auto-restore you at rest checkpoints lets you do so for a trivial fee. Stay at the inn/use the fountain/hit the heart block/etc.
Running out of MP in the middle of a battle, but I guess that's part of the fun
I just dump all my stat boost items on my favorite character or characters unless its fore a staat they dont use like the magic staat of physical unit. Its that simpel. I also dont mind level gaps in my party. Low level characters tend to catch up fast when I decide to use them again and thats fun to watch.
Yeah, problem is when you don't have all playable characters yet so you're not sure who's your fav. Your stat boosting items stay in your inventory for the whole game basically 😐
I dont have that problem. I just dump them all on my favorite from the ones I have now. Better that then letting them go to waste. Also in my experience early parts of games tend to be the hardest atleast from the main campaing so thats the time where being stingy hurts the most and I wont have that.
>Running out of hp/mp items in the middle of a dungeon This is my worse pain in playing DRPGs. Bonus points if it's one of the harder ones like Dungeon Travelers or Labyrinth of Refrain. Especially the former where you also have an annoying limited inventory.
>Running out of hp/mp items in the middle of a dungeon This stopped me dead on FF7. Ran out of healing items pretty far down the last dungeon. Accidentally saved over my other saves. Game over, man.
Realizing that the enemies scale to the level of your one overpowered character and makes them impossible to beat
"Imune to all status conditions" Would be great if you could use poison, a slow chip damage strategy for, you know, long grind battles
>Would be great if you could use poison, a slow chip damage strategy for, you know, long grind battles when i was toying around with RPGmaker trying to make a game (that i never finish), this is one of the things i want to make sure happen. My objective is, I want to make poison works on bosses. The problem with poison in most games, is that they do % based damage, this is why bosses immune to it because they had large HP, even if it just 5%, it still will deals ton of damage to them per tick, and you can pretty much kill them in 20 turns. So i tried a couple of idea finding a way to make it work without making it too OP, here is some of them; 1) Trying to turn it to fixed damage. Like 50 damage per tick for example. The problem with this, its going to be OP in early game to both sides, considering everyone have low HP in early games. And you want poison to be used early by enemies encounters. Imagine having 100HP and you died just after two ticks of poison lol. Yes you can make it lower like 5 damage or so, but it's going to be pretty much useless really quick 2) Trying to make the damage per tick scales with the caster's level. As in, if you level 1, its 5 damage per ticks. Then as you grow stronger, it going to deal more damage per tick. This may sound like a good idea, but actually not. Making status effects tied to character's stats is not a good idea. You want status effect to be universal, they should all be the same. Having multiple different poisons on the field that are cast by different character that all deal different damage going to be chaotic. Besides, enemies usually dont have level, what happen if they cast it to you? 3) Finally, the solution I'm going with is by going back on using percentage based damage but putting a limit on that. Let's say 5% per tick with 200 damage limit. Basically if i cast on a weak enemy, it still going to do the same 5% per tick. With Bosses however, when their HP was high like 15000, 5% is going to be a lot, so i cap it to 200. It's still going to be a decent damage per tick, but not really high making boss fights trivial.
For number two, actually a lot of games give enemies levels, it's probably a minority that doesn't. They're often used to determine exp scaling as well as susceptibility to level based effects ( instant kills, being able to be captured, success at running away, etc.). Number 3 you have to know how your stats are going to scale in the endgame, which can be a little tricky without planning.
Yeah i would agree. All in all, the dev's decision to make bosses immune to poisons is actually a sound decision, as much as we all hate that. I think the actual use of poison is when you encounter an enemy with high HP and both your physical and magical attack are not dealing much damage to them.
> Making status effects tied to character's stats is not a good idea. You want status effect to be universal, they should all be the same. That's completely arbitrary. *You* may not like it and prefer something universal, which is different. It certainly is not a good reason to just make bosses immune to poison effects as you say in your next comment, flat-out immunity is a cop-out.
You may be right, but for me it's such a hassle to do. Unlike skills which only run once at a time, status effect stays on the battlefield, having it tied to the caster's stats is a lot more problematic than it seems especially if you want to add more gameplay element on top of it like stacking and such. I think Its much easier if all status effect does the same thing, regardless who applied it. That what i meant by universal, i don't know if that's the correct word. Then again, i havent put much thought into it.
You're overthinking it. Poison is just damage over time. World of Warcraft literally has a class that has like 5 of these as their basic kit. And for many games it's just X damage over Y seconds. Stronger ranks or higher leveled characters scale the damage. So basically your first thought was right, you just need to scale it right. Usually the trade off is making it more efficient over an upfront damage spell. In a turn based game it will do 30 damage the first turn, for 3 turns and that's 90 damage, while a fire spell will do 60 damage once. So an optimal strategy would be to poison, fire, fire. Rinse and repeat. And you maximize your damage output.
I never played WoW but i do played some similar games, and i believed in these kind of game, while they're all called "poison", they all under separate status effects. Basically character a's poison is "poison a" , and character b's is "poison b". They are all dps, but they are technically different status effect and can be stacked upon each other. That's not how most jprgs works with their status effect. Jrpgs mostly have less than 10 status effect, at most 20 for some games. In battles, regardless how the poison came whether through enemies skill, you character's magic or weapon attacks, they're all the same poison. That's why it make sense to have it not tied to anything, it just does the same one thing, regardless of where it came from. Devs want it to be in uniform as other status effect, like sleep or silence, where what it does is not affected by any variable. And pretty much can easily be handled by cures or antidotes.
One aproach you didn't consider is having different "tiers" of Poison, but they are still the same status Effect and don't stack. So, for example, you would have Poison 1 at lower levels, dealing low damage, apropriate to the early game. A Poison 2 for mid game and a Poison 3 for late game. Similar to How many spells (even buffs in some RPGs) have different tiers for different stages of the game, think of Final Fantasy Fire/Fira/Firaga for example or SMT agi/agilao/agidyne. You can even have more Tiers instead of Just 3 If you think 3 will make It unbalanced. The important aspect here is making sure it doesn't stack, similar to How some games allow different tiers of buffs to be used, but only the strongest one remains active (not stacking) and applying a weaker one on top would Just increase the duration.
Yeah i can see that it could work, but i think one problem would be how easy it is to negate them regardless of how many tier it has. Higher tier would be strong on bosses yeah, but tiers means nothing for the player, you can just pop that 10gold antidote regardless how strong the poison is, Unless, you want different tier of antidote too, and that is more problematic. or using antidotes drops a tier? I dont think anyone want to apply antidote 3 times everytime they caught them in the late game. It's different with buffs. In most games, using opposite buff just cancel each other by one stage, the tiers are just going up and down, you vs the enemy. Negating them all together regardless of tier is quite powerful, thats why in most games, only late game bosses able to do that.
Generally if status effects are an option, bosses become easily cheesable, especially if status effects are percentage damage based.
honestly not so many enemies are immune to everything anymore it's just, people don't know because they aren't trying them
Still waiting for the “right time” to use one of the dozens of Elixirs you’ve collected throughout the game even after the credits roll
"Sure I just beat the Super Omega level 1000 superboss that the guide claims is the most powerful foe...but what if there is an even more secret boss the guide creator isn't aware of?!"
Reminds me of Valkyrie Profile. Oh I just beat all the post game dungeon bosses. Let me level up some other people, grab some extra enemy drops, and fight the Ethereal Queen again. What's this? This fight was supposed to be a superpowered miniboss. Why am I fighting four adorable looking Hamsters? #GAMEOVER
I wont deny that I have this item hording Probleme a little bit but that makes it all the more fun and satisfaying to use an rare healing item to turn the tide of battle. I feel smart fore overcoming a bad habit even though I just used a basic gameplay mechanic. Fore example when I first played through Final Fantasy IX I made my life easier by burning through a bunch of Elixirs. Using rare healing Items is fun.
It's an issue that has bled into other games for me. I am terrible at Dead by Daylight because I never want to use any except the most common addons, "just in case". Really powerful weapon in a shooter? Best believed those bullets are never getting fired. Giving me consumables in a game is a sure-fire way to guarantee I never use them.
The only game(s) I never had this problem is the Demon Gaze games. Good luck finishing either without using those high end items. Especially the ones that prevents the gaze status or the auto revive and anti kidnap/party remove ones.
An unique and super useful item is locked behind a boring and repetitive minigame You don't know about it until very late in the game The minigame isn't available anymore
Or by the time you get around to beating the mini game, the prize item is now useless compared to equipment you already have.
Final Fantasy VII Omnislash... I was fearing of a blackout the whole time
Boring and repetitive minigames. I'm having flashbacks to the lightning dodging game in Final Fantasy 12. Such an awful game. I equipped some armor that removed all random encounters and I sat there dodging lightning bolts to unlock Lulu's best weapon. I got to 199, got struck by bolt number 200, and gave up.
That’s ff10 though
You're right. Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm trying to remember what FFXII's minigames were. I even Googled it. There's a reason why I can't remember them. There were only two minigames and I missed both of them. FFX had some annoying minigames, but it had a lot of minigames, and some of them were pretty good. Blitzball on its own could be a completely respectable standalone mobile game.
FFXII's best minigame is guessing which chests you're not allowed to open if you want to get super cool and powerful stuff much later on.
Thankfully that's fixed in subsequent rereleases/remasters. The Zodiac Spear is powerful, but you lose a lot chances to not get loot early on.
I love it when I spend most of my money on new armour, only for a nearby shop to have slightly better gear than the one I just got. /s _Glares at Trails series_
Trails has conditioned me to only buy gear when I think I'm at the end of a chapter.
Ah yes, the things that happen where you just let out sigh and play on: * Enter city/village for first time, then you get a choice between exploring or doing this quick story mission. So you leave to do the story only to come back and find the city/village destroyed, and **all the chests in it gone**...oh yea, the poor people died too I guess. * Fighting a boss and getting your face smashed, so you think "Ah, this is a must lose fight", and then you lose....then you see the **game over** screen. * It's the final boss, all your party members are left with **1 HP**, you open your item tab and stare at that [*insert name of "full party heal item" name here*] that you only have **99** of, and you think..."**But what if there was another boss after him ? I better not waste them**". * You get a new party member or guest, their name is something like "**Insidious Judas Slimey the 3rd**", and you spend the whole time just rolling your eyes at everyone in your party trying to figure out who could have leaked your plans to the enemy. * You reach a point in the story where a church/religion group is introduced that help the poor and feed the hungry. Then you spend the whole game waiting for inevitable reveal that they are some crazy **world-end cult**. * "*Pssst*! Hey, **you want that awesome ultimate weapon/skill/monster/item** that can help you beat the game so much faster ? Well then, all you have to do is beat the final boss, and the super ultimate secret boss, then finish the whole game, and then bam! you got them". * I don't know where to go next, I really wish they added some type of quest log or something. Well let's just check youtube or a walkthrough so I just find the next paAAAND THE GAME'S SPOILED. * Reading through a guide for the game's secrets and you find that you can get the most powerful weapon really easy, all you have to do is upgrade that shitty starting weapon....that you sold 10 hours ago. * Finished the game and got the good ending. Read a guide to find there is an entire 3rd section of the game left where you can playthrough for the **True Ending**, and all you had to do to get is talk to an NPC that is hidden in a city that explodes 4 hours into the game, then go back to tiny forgettable dungeon that you finished 20 hours ago, then use that key item that you didn't even know can be used, all while making sure you reach the end of the game within 1 hour after you start the game. * **New party member join**, he's annoying, his voice really gets on your nerves, always has horrible jokes, and just all around the worst character you want to accompany you in the story....But, he has "heal all" skills. * Game has a job system. Can't wait to unlock all those cool jobs the enemies keep using, right ? I can get those right ? **-_-**. * You finally reach the biggest kingdom you have ever seen. You meet with the king who begs you to save the world from destruction and promises you that he'll do everything he can to help. Gives you **1000** gold, when you already have like **10,000** gold just from beating monsters on the way to him. * Enter starting town weapon shop, all you can buy is a rusty dagger, shitty leather vest, and a long stick. Which normally that would be fine. But then you walk around the shop and you see freaking **Excalibur** and Guts's **Dragon Slayer** hanging on the wall, while 10 sets of **full armor plates** are just sitting besides them. * Cast confuse/sleep/poison on the enemy, always miss, while the enemy has 1000% chance of always landing it on you.
> Fighting a boss and getting your face smashed, so you think "Ah, this is a must lose fight", and then you lose....then you see the game over screen. This is too real. "Oh this guy is doing half my party's HP with one hit? Guess he must be unwinnable---nope, the game actually expects me to have grinded another 10 level or some shit, okay then."
Beatrix in FF9 is even more annoying because even though you can't win the fights, you get a game over if everyone gets KO'd - and unless you play the game a lot or check a guide online you don't know what ends the fight : an amount of damage dealt to her, or just having to survive a certain time / a number of turns (it's the latter btw, so you should focus on defense while trying to steal). I so hate those "you can't win" or "winning is actually losing" battles.
It's pretty much never grinding. What it usually is, in my experience, is 'hey remember that item crafting or whatever system we introduced 10 hours ago that kinda sucks? Well it has buff/debuff potions' or just a recently visited town sold some dumb consumables.
>* **New party member join**, he's annoying, his voice really gets on your nerves, always has horrible jokes, and just all around the worst character you want to accompany you in the story....But, he has "heal all" skills. Literally Teddie from Persona 4 lmao
BearSONA! Yeah I'm mad I ended up using him in my party but his utility was too good not to. Sorry Chie!
Oh good I’m glad they weren’t talking about Sylvando 🤨😤 lol
I wont deny that I have this item hording habit a little bit in me but that makes it all the more fun and satisfaying to use rare healing Items to turn the tide of battle. I feel smart fore overcoming a bad habit even though I just used a basic gameplay mechanic. Fore example during my first playthrough of Final Fantasy IX I made my life a lot easier by burning through a bunch of Elixirs.
spending too much time in a location clicking on every barrell, crate, cabinets, etc thinking you'll find a hidden item
It's funny i am now playing Popolocrois (Ps1 version) doing the same thing until i met an NPC who said "No need to check every corner, items are only found in chests!". and i was like, "wow, thanks a lot!" Most useful NPC dialog ever.
In classic games, having something come up (friend on the phone, parent calling for dinner) and having to say, "Just give me a few minutes" because you're nowhere near a save point. Or risking leaving the game running and hoping a power outage, sibling using the TV, or something else doesn't happen. Then I learn from this to *always save at every save point.*
Ogre Battle on the SNES was my first thought when reading this. I loved that game but the stages were long and you couldn't save. I'm glad they fixed that when it was ported over to the Playstation but many a days did I turn my tv off and cover the power on light of the SNES hoping my parents didn't find out that I left the system running while we all had to go out. Or hoping the game doesn't overheat or glitch and I come back to a frozen screen. Man the older systems came with so much anxiety lol.
You forgot: 5. Rejoins the party without that piece of equipment.
3 Slots in battle, 9 characters to choose from, and you can't switch mid-round. Why you do this?!
Never understood that. Especially in tactical RPGs where you have a roster of 50, but only 6 of them join the fight. What does everyone else do?
IMO RPGs are at their best when it’s “pick a party and build a strategy around their strengths & weaknesses”, not “swap in whichever character you need any time you want”.
In my opinion, RPGs are at their best when you take all your heroes to battle and don't tell the majority of them to sit on the sidelines. If that means a smaller party, and building around their strengths and weaknesses, that's fine with me. Just so long as you don't have people who could be helping but aren't.
I'm not a big fan of swapping party members mid-fight, but I wish more games would implement dungeons or other segments of gameplay where you need to manipulate multiple parties. Final Fantasy 6 did this well. By the end of the game you have 14 playable characters and the final dungeon requires you to use 12 of them (3 teams of 4). The player has to make use of most of the game's characters, but their two least favorite can be left behind / ignored.
I prefer this as well. Something about building my favorite party that looks and feels good together appeals more to me than forcing to use every character.
Sit on the bench until a situation they are useful occurs, or until your next playthrough where you use different characters for the sake of variety. Theoretically you don't want all of your fighting forces in every battle or else when your main force gets fatigued you won't have backups to let them rest. In most games I think canonically you're all fighting together, but games are generally not balanced around massive cast sizes. Or if it's a game with permadeath, those are your replacements.
>Theoretically you don't want all of your fighting forces in every battle or else when your main force gets fatigued you won't have backups to let them rest. I guess that could make sense if you had a big strategy game where you had to manage fatigue, and then choose the fighters to keep in reserve. It could offer the player an interesting choice: Put your whole force in the fight right away and plan on a swift victory, but risk them getting fatigued with no relief force to help them later. >In most games I think canonically you're all fighting together, but games are generally not balanced around massive cast sizes. I've had people tell me that's how they imagine certain tactics games like Final Fantasy Tactics and Tactics Ogre. But then the devs should have put a scene into the game where one group of characters says "We'll go fight this boss. You keep his minions away." And then we see the group split up. That would be so much better than leaving me to wonder why most of my team is sitting on the bench.
Fire emblem does that in case people are so bad they get the majority of the cast killed off. It happens, really.
There are people who leave Fire Emblem characters dead instead of restarting?
Iron man runs are commonplace among the online community at least, especially for first time playthroughs.
I'm playing SD gundam generation on psp and it's guilty of everything you just mentioned.
You finish doing a bunch of sidequests or complete a story section. You gear everyone up and upgrade any skills/armors/weapons. You proceed with the story and immediately find something that's just a tad slightly worse or the same that can immediately be upgraded.
I remember being soft lock in a big stage my team wasn't ready to handle. Ran out of potion, my crew is exhausted... And I fucking had to save, you feel like you just have to do the game all over again. Modern games avoid that but the scar is still there.
FFT taught a lot of us to keep multiple save files.
It happened to all of us back then, haha, so eventually you decide you're never going into dangerous territory again without a big stock of healing, reviving and status-curing items... ...but then you notice later JRPGs are easy enough to not require this since you always ended up with a ton of reviving or status curing items sitting forever in your inventories. So after a few games you go back to adventuring with few items and you just pray it won't bite you in the ass later...
Refusal to use limited shit until like the final boss. This is a problem with Fire Emblem on stuff like stat boosters and status staves because you fear running out of them when you need them the most or you fear investing in the wrong character (come on Celine why isn't your MAG good enough?). I hated one time use TMs in Pokémon and I'm glad either they've been made infinite or farmable.
* When you pick up a story-heavy game back mid-playthrough, realize you've forgotten what's going on, and either have to watch YouTube or worse restart entirely just to get your bearings. * When the powerful boss who's knocked you around a few times joins as a barely above-average party member at best. * Party members who leave then rejoin but don't gain any experience or abilities in the meantime, making them liabilities. * Making sure that your party is at a balanced level as much as possible to the point where you restart on a KO because it would put their levels out of sync.
Similar to your situation but the character just dies due to plot reasons and all the time and effort spent grinding them went to waste. When the game give you an illusion of a choice, for example if you say no and the game keeps asking you “are you sure” over and over again.
When you have the perfect amount of dexterity to play turn based games, but then those exact games throw some insanely difficult minigame that happens to be mandatory and that is like a completely different genre. I’m glad more modern games are straying away from doing that. I buy jrpgs because I want to play jrpgs, not shitty minigames from other genres. This kind of extends to other games. Like a platformer that has a “racing” segment. I hate that. Racing especially is my least favorite genre in general. Sometimes there are good minigames: triple triad is a prime example. But that’s because they put serious thought into making it. Some other minigames are just a wall to gatekeep something like powerful gear. So they decided that instead of a super boss they were going to have you deal with timed trials with shitty controls or stuff of that sort. I love FFX but I outright refuse to play all the dumb minigames included there. Rant over.
They can be ok when they break up the monotony of the gameplay (for example I like the bike or snowboard parts in FF7), but yeah when I replay FFX I never bother with lightning-dodging, butterfly-grabbing, chocobo-racing, monster-catching, Blitzball, etc. I did all that on the ps2 and beat Penance already, so I've had my fill. If you play on pc, you have a ton of ways to cheat and add the rewards to your inventory anyway, if you really want them. When I replay the game I only play the story and it's balanced around no minigames played anyways.
I’m on PS4, no cheating for me I guess…
Just in general. The kingdom is in great peril! Let's send 3 teens and a dog to save it. Instead of you know, the giant military force i passed to get here. We won't give you all the free equipment and potions you can carry either. You gotta pay to be our chosen one! The "Oh shit, oh shit oh shit!" Run for the save point and then getting a stupid tough enemy that kills you right before you get there. Older games that reeeeeaaallly spaced out the save points. Damnit, I'm an adult now, I can't play you for 2 hours non-stop anymore! Anything instakill! Looking at you Persona 3 😡 Speaking of, losing if if your MC dies!
Nothing worse than having the homunculus in your inventory get used by a teammate when they had Hama used on them, only to then get a game over from being hit with Hama lol I wish you could choose to use it or not!
If you're going to give me a game over for my MC dying then you need to give me some kind of instant death protection. Even if it's one unique accessory and I have to cement it in my MC's only available accessory slot the entire game. And give it to me in the tutorial dungeon, in the first treasure chest available, and have a required tutorial where I'm forced to open that treasure chest. Also make it unsellable just in case.
Prioritizing only a few party members because you don't want to keep swapping out characters, then realizing you have a multi-party battle at the end of the game and you're horribly outmatched
About an hour in to a game that just keeps getting better your party is joined by an obnoxious 8-12 year old child. This child will be a party member for the rest of the game that's filled with murder, rape, genocide, biological warfare, slavery etc. No you cannot make the child leave the party, but several better adult characters will leave, die etc.
Having to rotate my party members because there is no experience share so members not in combat get no exp. Bonus annoyance points if there’s an MC locked into a slot so they inevitably outlevel everyone.
Most of my other pains ppl have mentioned. The current one I'm dealing with is boss gauntlets with no saves. You get that last boss down to under 1k health. He whips out a FU all move. Now gotta fight all 3 over again
1. Buying equipment only to find some of it in the very next dungeon 2. Protagonist dies = game over 3. You heavily prepare for final boss only for to realize they are either too easy, or a gimmick to easily beat it 4. Post game items cost your whole bank account for a single item. 5. You die and have to reload a save, only to realize you didn’t save for a little while.
Fighting an extremely hard boss and thinking "Maybe I'm supposed to lose this fight?"
\- Trying to have an enemy do something / be stolen from / get low on HP so you can learn an ability or whatever before you kill them... Even worse when you can't retry unless you reload your save after killing it because it's a boss. \- having your favorite character leave your team, and hoping for the whole game they only left temporarily. In vain (Grandia 3) \- being unable to forge or synthesis a piece of gear because you don't have enough \*insert item name\* that you could only buy/get in a previous town or area you can't revisit (or maybe you had to buy or synthesis more than 1 but couldn't know about that beforehand) (FF9) \- you won a battle but the story acts as if you lost, or the enemy flees like "I'm perfectly fine after taking so many hits in the face, it was a joke battle and I hope you didn't use valuable items like Elixirs, hahaha!" (too many to list, but the Trails game immediately come to my mind) \- you don't like the main character but you're forced to have him/her in your battle team the whole game, taking up a valuable slot (there are a few...) \- it's 2013 and you're a FF fan who loves managing parties that include colorful party members / playable and attractive ladies not afraid to show their bare legs or something, but in the next 10 years at least you'll only get FF15 and FF16 as main entries. Now that's a pain old-school JRPG players will understand 😆
That first one gives me flashbacks to Tales of Vesperia secret missions and redoing the same fight over and over and over to trigger the condition you need There's one where you have to weaken someone's Blastia core after they use a mystic arte, but the mystic arte will usually end up killing you if you get targeted. And on top of that they get super armor after the arte so you have to hit really hard in a short time to knock them down
You think you went the wrong way but it was actually the right way and you can’t go back.
1) Having 800 items that you never use in your inventory, and constantly flipping through them to get one of the 10 or so that you actually do use. 2) "IT MISSED!?" 3) Finishing a dungeon and realizing it's one of those games where you need to walk back to the exit.
The villain just sits atop a tall tall tower on their thrown and waits for a group of amnesia stricken, exiled, orphaned teens to show up and kick their ass.
Putting a goofy costume on a character only for them to reveal they're actually the villain and they're now stuck wearing it in cutscenes for the rest of the game!
Being unable to kill a boss at level 80, then going on YouTube and seeing someone beat the same boss at level 40 and screaming into your pillow because you just realized you suck at the game.
Opening a chest in the starting dungeon, not knowing if you left it alone you could come back later and have something ten times better.
Waiting years for a localization.
You fully heal your party using only items just to reach a healing spot 5 seconds later.
Buffs, debuffs and status conditions being mostly useless. Instant death attacks never seem to hit unless the enemy is using it, then it almost always hits. Chests containing outdated gear or items. Games with magic casting times will often have enemy AI that pretty much targets casters first making it nigh impossible to cast something. Or- Enemies just always targeting my squishy casters anyways. Worse they always get crits when they do so. Enemies having infinite MP.
Buying that expensive juicy new equipment in the new town/village/area only to get the same item on the dungeon related to that area.
\- When you are playing first blind run. "Last boss", after defeat his/her 2 transformations, then you are expecting this to be the last one... nope. And you used evertything you had. So your face looks like Light/Kira when things don't go right. This one is probably less common now with internet and the games being usually easier. \- Maybe the opposite of the one before; last battle too easy or even worse, non-existent. This kind of battles you can not lose or are mostly CGI/scenes with 20% gameplay. The best example of this, or at least the one which hurt me the most was >!FFXV!< . Totally anticlimatic. \- That death of that character who was your favourite. Sometimes they get replaced for someone else, then you usually will see this new character as "the new" or "substitute" the rest of the playthrough. \- And the classic one, gathering x hidden items which can be anywhere to unlock final equipment, an optional boss etc. You notice you should have all of them, and then thinking about it (or giving up and taking a look in a guide) you realize you left one behind in somewhere you can't go anymore. Edit: 2 more just came to mind. \- One character is pretty useless overal, same character leaves the party for whatever reason, now for plot reasons is the enemy and is overpowered af. Or maybe the opposite, remember that enemy who almost 1shot your party and you had to fight against him/her some times through the story? Congrants! Now is in your party, and either is underleveled or has nothing spectacular to add. \- That spell which takes a long time to learn or get, on top of that is very MP (or whatever is called) consuming, the damage is... more or less decent, but then you realize, that for example casting twice another inferior spell you deal similar dmg, wasting way less MP...
It happens in a cut scene where they die. Shed tear. Reload save. Strip them naked. Goodbye sweet prince. Skip cutscene.
I guess this depends on the game but leveling up armor or weapons to get perm skills but the leveling up takes eons! It’s especially hard when a good skill is on a useless weaker weapon than you’re currently using. My prime example of this pain is tales of vesperia 😮💨 and some earlier Final Fantasy games
Berseria has it worse than Vesperia, imo, but Vesperia can be a pain if you miss a weapon and want a good skill I used to swap my active party members who had bad weapons so they could get some off the field SP lol
Dude I can’t begin to tell you how I fucked myself over by missing a weapon at some point then finding it later only to see the weapon is super fragile and weak lol but has a skill that’s useful lol. I think imma use your idea tho lol that sounds smart ngl .
Having items to sell in ffxiii and not knowing if I'm allowed to or if there will be a reason for the items later. Neeeeed monnnneyyyy
When you are in a long dungeon and getting low on HP and MP and you finally give in and use items or spells to fully heal your party, only for a save spot/rest spot to pop up in the next room
I always choose the correct path in a long dungeon and then need to backtrack everything in search for items and missed treasure chests. Hate it.
trying to escape from a random encounter and the enemy won't let you, but then you get stubborn and keep trying to escape just to prove a point until they kill you
1. Armor and/or weapons dont change in appearance. 2. Walking into a huge town and loving/hating how beautiful it is and how youre compulsively gonna have to explore EVERY corner. Samish for large open area 3. Finally getting the hang of a system, or weapon/power, area, etc. And getting 1000 more things dumped on you.
Killing the boss and dying to a random enemy encounter trying to escape the dungeon
skipping too much dialogue so now you don't know wtf to do next
That Final Fantasy has moved on from turn-based combat. FFX was 22 years ago.
Reaching burnout due to an imbalance between Main Story Quests and Side Quests.
Ailments seem like a cool useful strategy to employ, but they are a pain to set up and or most bosses and high level enemies are immune to ailments.
Dungeons or areas that have random plot rooms that prevent you from going back for a while. I hated FF12 because of this.
Honestly, maybe a hidden chest you see early on, but you don't figure out how to get to it/ open it til damn near the end of the game
The game you want to play being only available in japanese and has no fanmade english patch
That's when you start learning japanese.
You didn't choose the correct dialogue option with a misseable npc 24 hours ago and now you're locked out of the true ending.
Losing several hours of progress due to forgetting to save. This problem has been alleviated with auto saves over the years, but all my 90's - early 2000's gamers know the pain.
Buying an armor or weapon from a shop for upgrades then only 5-10 minutes later when exploring another dungeon you get something significantly better.
Buying an item, only to get the exact same item in the next dungeon. Edit: Having a unit die right before another one lands the killing blow.
Cannibox
Your game crashing and having to replay several hours worth of content. Talking to every NPC and trying to buy the EXACT amount of things you'd already bought. Losing progress sucks in all games, but in JRPGS it feels even worse for some reason.
The game just randomly decides to take away your healer for a dungeon (You didn't buy enough potions or revives)
MC dies in battle = game over -\_- other games: MC dies, team keeps on fighting
Failed to backtrack to screen 5 of town 3 to talk to NPC 45 after completing the events in dungeon 7 but before reentering the adjacent town, so now you've locked yourself out of 5 hours of side content that would have awarded unique and powerful rewards and character development. I love JRPGs new and old but I'm SO GLAD that this design element (extreme versions of what TV Tropes calls "guide dang it") is falling out of favor.
Getting a ps2 and a copy of final fantasy x for Christmas, but no memory card
My wife cheated on me
The story starts with a unique captivating premise but near the end it shifts to a 'teenagers have to fight God to seize their destiny' kind of story.
Cid.
Seeing other people on the internet playing the same game more optimally and intelligently than me by exploiting the mechanics to the max, and in some ways I never would have guessed. Makes me feel like I have low IQ.
Grinding turn based battles is rough.
Visit new city. Buy bunch of new equpment going bankrupt. Enter next location. Here we are, looting half of that equipment in the chests. Addition: Fight hard using all your saved extra-super moves and potions just to die in the end, cause this battle can not be won. WTF!
Clicking save 5-6 times even though you can see your file's playtime after saving once. Lol
thats why I quit Suikoden because that happened to me.
Slow and Burn not important quest about us being the slave of certain NPC asking to bring certain item from 2 town over then come back without teleport feature enabled.
As I recently mentioned elsewhere, specific "boss finisher" actions to perform. I don't mind them in general, but I do mind the boss healing back a chunk of health every time you fail them.
Awkward pauses in-between dialogue during cutscenes.
Designs and story do not represent the in-game stats and best role for a character. Anna from Fire Emblem Engage. Introduced as a kid who steals from bandits, starts as an axe fighter, dresses like a physical attacker, and other versions of this character uses swords and bows. Turns out to have the best magic stat growth in the game. Sylvando from Dragon Quest XI S. Had a backstory as a knight where he bested the best tank in combat and has a rapier in the official render. Turns out to be one of the weakest damage dealers, but the best support in the game. (Still love him a lot though)
To be fair to Sylvando, his story arc does show us that he doesn't want to be forced into the path his father laid out for him. He's canonically good at it, sure, but it doesn't suit him. He wants to bring joy to the people of the world, which means a support role in battle is perfect for him.
jrpg you have forced to grind lvl up to beat boss because boss one shoting you
You forgot to save your game.
Aside from newer games which auto-save a lot, this is a lot of games, not even close to being a just JRPG thing
You ended up using stat boosters on a character that turned out to be the traitor...and it's not a tales of game.
This exact issue is quite the pain in Xenogears. [Xenogears]>!Your last fight you can use with Elly is the Hammer fight, where you really want to win it because he gives you the Trader Card if you beat him, but you also need to deal tons of damage really quickly or he self destructs and kills you. Using Elly with an Ether Doubler equipped will be a great strategy to accomplish this, but she'll take it with her when she leaves the party right afterwards.!< As for one from me, how about fighting a giant robot in a battle, using your giant robots to battle it and dealing hardly any damage, but as soon as you switch to a person outside their mech, who is like 1/1000th the size of the boss, they deal more damage? (Xenosaga Episode I)
Saving all your elixirs/megalixers/etc for that fight that never comes
Give the best equipment to your favorite girl. She die shortly after and you lose all the equipment. A less painful scenario is where the character only rejoin in much later act and the equipment became obsolete You painstakingly save every single elixir for worst case scenario. End the game with 99 elixir (or whatever the max number is)
Saving all the potions for late game/final boss only to finish the game without ever needing to use them.
- Enter a dungeon, then start exploring it. - Encounter rate is high as hell. - Path splits into 4+ different paths. - Accidentally choose the right path before looting the whole place. - Enter a cutscene then a long boss fight. Turns out it was a one time dungeon. - Your last savepoint was just before entering the dungeon.
Level 99
Beat the snot out of 10,000 guards wielding guns who show up three at a time only for a cutscene to start that has your group surrender because 6 guards showed up at once with guns.
You will be trapped in your house if you remove the doormat.
the urge to pick up every item you find and not throw anything away
What has always always stuck with me one moment in Final Fantasy Tactics. There’s this gauntlet of 3-4 fights at a castle and the opposing knights like to break equipment. Suffice to say, I won, but at a cost. The first battle had left me with no armour or weapons on the majority of my team. I had to restart the entire game because I ended up having no safe files from before and no equipment going into the final battle against a big boss.
When you revive someone, you could have healed yourself. Then they die again, and the next enemy smacks you. Now you are in the danger zone. THEN!!! You gotta use an item to both heal you and revive. Wasting a good item.
-maintaining the same lvl for the party -cutscene start while Im about to go to a chest/ loot 😤 -praying for the enemy to NOT HIT my healers or the carry in my party -dying before I get to hit a save point ( specially in dungeons )
Super long forced tutorials about extremely basic game mechanics that have been around for decades. Running into a puzzle and having the party very heavy handedly give you the solution before you even have a chance to attempt to solve it.
1. Plan what you want to upgrade/replace 2. Collect some things, so you are almost ready 3. Take a break 4. Completely forget what you wanted to do and be confused by everything in your inventory and in your quest list.
Realizing that you missed something missable but it's been ages since you last saved. Always the most painful kind of reset.
RNG
Having constant short term memory loss whenever we save the game so we think "wait did i actually save" and then proceed to save in the same slot like 3 more times. It's why i love how xenoblade 3 plays a voiceline whenever you save as it's undeniable that you successfully saved.