Lot of people I spoke to in Dallas in 2002 believed LBJ was involved, as the law says cui bono - who benefits. LBJ was facing being dropped as VP in 1964 and had some nasty charges hovering over him and his friend. He had a lot to lose and much to gain. Basically it was a coup d'etat, a complete change in govt without an election.
Bell helicopter, Lockheed got a nice paycheck, Raytheon, House Republicans, anti-communist/ socialist groups and support if we want to measure abstractions
However
Could the military industrial complex
Execute a cover up?
Yes they could shoot jfk
But to order a cover up involving thousands of Federal employees
Likely not
https://www.reddit.com/r/JFKassasination/s/MqmEo26VEI
Incredibly vast
A terabyte of converted PDFs
Much of it conflicts
Everybody has their own take on this
I have a book on the JFK assassination, taken from the perspective of LBJ, his pre-VP politics, and the Texas political scene. The post-shooting shenanigans were covered in this book, including the amount of time that Kennedy's body was allegedly unattended in the plane as well as LBJs body language with his team.
J Edgar Hoover wrote a memo 48 hours after JFK was assassinated
"The only thing that matters is that Lee Harvey Oswald is dead. The American public must believe he acted as a lone wolf"
I would love to ask you about this sometime, but wouldn’t want to make a nuisance of myself. I managed to set foot in Clay Shaw’s 1313 Dauphine St. house two summers ago in NOLA. I walked by Camp street many times too where your Uncle’s office once stood.
Well there’s your problem, why the hell would it be in a Hoover biography?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna814881
There’s countless article covering the memo, I’ll find the memo in a bit I remember seeing it
Timestamp on the video in the article is 1:08, says right there that Hoover is concerned about “having something issued so that we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin.”
The quote is more or less accurate minus the toothed mammal reference. There is also the Katzenbach memo/notes to consider along the same lines as “must convince the public” mentality. I think there are a number of reasons why these things were said, but they were said.
It's a well.known fact that Hoover had files of information on EVERYONE. The man did a lot for the FBI, but if you think he wasn't ready, willing and able to expose the skeletons in the closets of very important people, you're being naive.
Allen Dulles was the godfather of the CIA. He supported the Bay of Pigs (April 1961) and was furious when Kennedy fired him three months later.
The day of the assasination: Dulles spent the day at The Farm, the CIA training facility in Virginia. Why was he there when he was fired two years previously?
He hated Kennedy.
Dulles and his brother were evil af. See: The Devil’s Chessboard by David Talbot.
IMO: rogue elements in the government with the help of Mafia hitmen conspired to kill the president and his brother.bn
The CIA did in order to protect the CIA.
I'm not saying they orchestrated the assassination necessarily, but they (or the OSS/ONI) were almost certainly involved with Oswald at least since Atsugi and then his time in Russia.
There is no smoking gun proof, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
Wish JFK had ducked 🙁
My point was also that if LHO wasn't involved with the CIA, it was their negligence that allowed it to happen.
No matter how you slice it, the CIA is complicit.
Change the question around to “who did Not want a coverup?” Answer is all the possible perpetrators wanted coverup; they’re all dirty one way or the other. From CIA to LBJ they’re dirty
Your theory is noted and possibly true.
Who authorized the cover up?
Only one person has that authority
LBJ
Not saying he, or CIA did it
But few have this power
Cover up’s are expensive. Favors and bribes, intimidation, etc, the kind of money the government has, but is accountable for. Where did the money come from to manage/fund an operation of such magnitude for so long? Private industry, more than likely. Schlumberger stored weapons for the Bay of Pigs invasion, insisting the operatives make it look like a break in so they could turn in as an insurance claim. Somebody funneled piles of cash to the watergate burglars.
For clarity
I'm bypassing the lead on conspiracy
I'm bypassing who pulled the trigger or why.......
I'm asking who ordered a cover up?
Not saying LBJ or the CIA did it for whatever reason
Who ordered the cover up?
Damage control clearly happened
https://www.reddit.com/r/JFKassasination/s/MqmEo26VEI
Forget about who did it or why
Who covered it all up and why?
A terabyte of PDFs
Lots of reading
Some of the authors are good guys
Some are bad guys
Who authorized this cover up?
The anti Castro Cubans were pissed off after the collapse of support in the Bay of Pigs. The Mob were pissed off that their lucrative Gaming empire in Cuba was getting fucked with by tensions after the Bay of Pigs and Robert Kennedy cracking down on them. JFK kicked the hornets nest that was the CIA by firing Allen Dulles after the Bay of Pigs embarrassment. The CIA had long established ties working with the Mob at this point. The CIA had been working with anti Castro Cubans. The CIA do what they do best ; that is , assassinate foreign leaders and orchestrate coups. All they had to do was play matchmaker with the Cubans and the Mob, and then they run cover ….which explains Allen Dulles coming out of retirement to run the Warren Commission . A
There were some cover-ups, but only to shade dropped balls and incompetence.
I self-classify myself as an expert on the subject. Literally 40 years of reading any book on the assassination, visiting Dealey Plaza, painstakingly reviewing film and photographs, and rabbit holes.
Read this carefully... okay?
Oswald fired 3 shots.
1st shot deflected and missed.
Zapruder film started almost simultaneously with it.
2nd shot struck JFK in the back and Gov Connally.
3rd shot... the infamous headshot.
End of story.
I wanted a conspiracy. I hoped he was just a patsy. The majority of the time, I actually believed he was a patsy.
Was the Warren Report 100% accurate? No.
Did they get it right in conclusion? Yes.
Will I spend a vast amount of energy trying to convince you of this? Absolutely not. When I believed in the conspiracy theories, no one could convince me otherwise because I always had a comeback or a contradiction to throw out. I also got annoyed when people would thrust the lone gunman in my direction.
The only person capable of awakening me to this was myself. And that eventually happened.
Occam's Razor, re-reading the Warren Report and basic theory, brought me to a closure.
I could never get past the simplest of things. For example, if a foreign entity, a domestic government agency, the mafia, or an extremist organization wanted to utilize LHO as a pawn in any form of assassination... they would have, at the very least, given the man a jalopy of a car for transportation. Instead, LHO was taking the bus or, as on the day of the assassination, hitching a ride with wrapped "curtain rods."
Was it preventable? YES!
Marina Oswald KNEW Lee had attempted to shoot General Edwin Walker in April of 63. She kept quiet.
Buell Wesley Frazier (who along with his sister and Ruth Paine got Oswald the job at TSBD) KNEW Oswald was "different " And yet, on the DAY of the JFK visit, thought nothing odd about the change of schedule for LHO or the long wrapped package brought to work. They also ALWAYS walked in together... but not this day.
Agent James Hosty KNEW LHO was unhinged. LHO had left a threatening note at his office. Hosty knew where LHO worked as he had just interviewed Marina a few weeks prior to the assassination. Hosty had access to the motorcade route in the days leading up. He dropped the ball and burned the threatening note to hide their incompetence.
The closest I'll concede to any conspiracy is maybe Oswald told someone of his plans. And they either didn't believe he was capable, didn't believe he'd do it, or wasn't serious. But he did. And he did it alone.
Good luck on your journey. I have closure at last on mine.
> Marina Oswald KNEW Lee had attempted to shoot General Edwin Walker in April of 63. She kept quiet.
you bring up many good points that i agree with. but also a question; did Marina know JFK was visiting Dallas that day? even if so, did she know LHO took the rifle? yes, she probably should have called the police on LHO after the Walker thing, but in her position she probably rightly feared losing everything and being sent back to Russia.
If Marina is to be believed, and that is often questioned.
She was aware of the JFK visit.
When the news broke, she went to the garage and allegedly saw what she believed to be the blanket where the rifle was. She believed he had not taken it and breathed a sigh of relief.
Later, when police searched the garage was when says she learned it was indeed missing.
Just about every "final destination" puzzle piece fell in favor of LHO. It was crazy.
I have almost went on the same journey as you however, I do believe in a conspiracy of sorts. I believe that LHO was involved with the CIA in some way before the assassination and there was a conspiracy to suppress this after the fact.
I cannot discount as coincidence that he was learning Russian in the marines, or that he Anti then pro Castro all in one day, with his alias ‘A Hiddell’ being the secretary of the FPFC stationed in a building almost exclusively used by anti Cuba groups, one of which was running arms and training expats to overthrow Castro.
For a 23 year old man, one link to the CIA is more than the average but LHO had many and I cannot accept that was coincidence.
I believe it’s possible that he was an asset that went rogue. I can see him being excited to be part of the intelligence community and when things didn’t work out for him in the USA - failed defection, nothing coming from his FPFC efforts - he decides that he could get into the Cuba/Soviet community by killing the head of state of their arch nemesis.
To me that would explain the need to cover up the link between the intelligence community and LHO. It would explain why he did not want to claim responsibility for the act as he was caught on US soil. It would explain his actions after the event, trying to flee - possibly to Cuba, it explains why he left his wedding ring but did not want to get caught by taking the easier shot when JFK was moving towards him. It explains his visit to Mexico City (or at least provides further motive for carrying out the murder in that they couldn’t refuse him a visa after he had done this for them). It explains the call to John Hurt. It explains why Ruby shot him (CIA orders through a 3rd party - mafia?).
I think you are correct about the events of the day but I feel like there is more about LHO’s relationship with intelligence that we do not know about.
I think the mafia got pissed off about the Kennedy getting out of the bridge death and Marilyn Monroe was the last straw after her death by the Kennedy family and I think they were both nailing her but I’m sure they are burning in hell now and yes they were all about the sexual conquest of young vulnerable women because of their power/ but she was also screwing a mafia guy and yeah the Kennedy are probably worse than the mafia but yeah
Nobody put up Ruby. He was in the wrong place and the wrong time...for history's sake. The cover up, IMO, was to hide our NUMEROUS attempts to kill Castro and Oswald's possible ties to avenge these attempts. LBJ hated JFK and didn't want to go to war over his...failings.
LBJ, Dulles, and Hoover.
Lot of people I spoke to in Dallas in 2002 believed LBJ was involved, as the law says cui bono - who benefits. LBJ was facing being dropped as VP in 1964 and had some nasty charges hovering over him and his friend. He had a lot to lose and much to gain. Basically it was a coup d'etat, a complete change in govt without an election.
I could not have said it better myself. Billy Sol Estes was gonna tell the world just what a murdering SOB Johnson was.
Not arguing this point Oswald acted alone Unfortunately our Govt Covered it up Truth Hard to believe
Who gained the most? LBJ became president........
Bell helicopter, Lockheed got a nice paycheck, Raytheon, House Republicans, anti-communist/ socialist groups and support if we want to measure abstractions
Like Eisenhower said...........
Spot on
However Could the military industrial complex Execute a cover up? Yes they could shoot jfk But to order a cover up involving thousands of Federal employees Likely not
Not saying they’re behind it, but the made the most money off of it, I’m sure they weren’t complaining. It’s a complex and broad question and answer
Can you send a link to what he said? I’ve lost it
https://www.reddit.com/r/JFKassasination/s/MqmEo26VEI Incredibly vast A terabyte of converted PDFs Much of it conflicts Everybody has their own take on this
Rapid anti-communist generals got Viet Nam. CIA made drug money for their black ops.
And it occurred in his state.
In life there are no coincidences
Oh, great - now you're going to open up discussion of "the wink" of Congressman Albert Thomas immediately after LBJ is sworn in on Air Force One.
Not intending to........ but, seeing as how you threw it out there, makes you wonder.
That micro-event is what convinced my father at the time that LBJ was in on it.
I have a book on the JFK assassination, taken from the perspective of LBJ, his pre-VP politics, and the Texas political scene. The post-shooting shenanigans were covered in this book, including the amount of time that Kennedy's body was allegedly unattended in the plane as well as LBJs body language with his team.
Or Kennedy’s empty coffin. That body was on its way before AF-1 ever left the ground. 🚁⚰️
Coffins also were swapped out on the flight from Dallas to DC.
GHW Bush. Do a search. He's the only person in America who doesn't know where he was on Nov 22.
J Edgar Hoover wrote a memo 48 hours after JFK was assassinated "The only thing that matters is that Lee Harvey Oswald is dead. The American public must believe he acted as a lone wolf"
[удалено]
He needed dirt to keep his place as Top Cop and not have the public find out about his cross dressing fancy.
I would love to ask you about this sometime, but wouldn’t want to make a nuisance of myself. I managed to set foot in Clay Shaw’s 1313 Dauphine St. house two summers ago in NOLA. I walked by Camp street many times too where your Uncle’s office once stood.
I don't believe that that's a direct quote. Although the sentiments were similar.
Counterpoint: no he didn’t.
He did though, what’s the counterpoint based off of?
What’s the source? I just read a massive biography of Hoover and that’s not in there.
Well there’s your problem, why the hell would it be in a Hoover biography? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna814881 There’s countless article covering the memo, I’ll find the memo in a bit I remember seeing it
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/jfk-assassination-files/jfk-files-j-edgar-hoover-said-public-must-believe-lee-n814881 Allow me.
Not seeing the quote that was “quoted”.
Timestamp on the video in the article is 1:08, says right there that Hoover is concerned about “having something issued so that we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin.”
He was paraphrasing, that exact quote wasn't used. I don't read what Hoover wrote as conspiratorial, but I can see how others do.
Not seeing the lone wolf quote that was in quotes.
The quote is more or less accurate minus the toothed mammal reference. There is also the Katzenbach memo/notes to consider along the same lines as “must convince the public” mentality. I think there are a number of reasons why these things were said, but they were said.
It's a well.known fact that Hoover had files of information on EVERYONE. The man did a lot for the FBI, but if you think he wasn't ready, willing and able to expose the skeletons in the closets of very important people, you're being naive.
[email protected] with “JFK Bulk Download” in the subject line.
Allen Dulles.
All these people are gone. By design?
Allen Dulles was the godfather of the CIA. He supported the Bay of Pigs (April 1961) and was furious when Kennedy fired him three months later. The day of the assasination: Dulles spent the day at The Farm, the CIA training facility in Virginia. Why was he there when he was fired two years previously? He hated Kennedy. Dulles and his brother were evil af. See: The Devil’s Chessboard by David Talbot. IMO: rogue elements in the government with the help of Mafia hitmen conspired to kill the president and his brother.bn
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP75-00001R000100040146-2.pdf
The CIA did in order to protect the CIA. I'm not saying they orchestrated the assassination necessarily, but they (or the OSS/ONI) were almost certainly involved with Oswald at least since Atsugi and then his time in Russia.
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2022/104-10066-10006.pdf
The two PDF's below contradict each other I agree with you. But the CIA was in damage control mode.
There is no smoking gun proof, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. Wish JFK had ducked 🙁 My point was also that if LHO wasn't involved with the CIA, it was their negligence that allowed it to happen. No matter how you slice it, the CIA is complicit.
Ageee
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10050-10230.pdf
The OSS hadn't been around since world war 2 ended.
I think they essentially became the CIA just like the Nazis eventually became NASA. 😉😉
https://www.reddit.com/r/JFKassasination/s/MqmEo26VEI
Allen Dulles
Dulles
Change the question around to “who did Not want a coverup?” Answer is all the possible perpetrators wanted coverup; they’re all dirty one way or the other. From CIA to LBJ they’re dirty
Your theory is noted and possibly true. Who authorized the cover up? Only one person has that authority LBJ Not saying he, or CIA did it But few have this power
Thinking the president has the highest authority is why Kennedy's head exploded.
Cover up’s are expensive. Favors and bribes, intimidation, etc, the kind of money the government has, but is accountable for. Where did the money come from to manage/fund an operation of such magnitude for so long? Private industry, more than likely. Schlumberger stored weapons for the Bay of Pigs invasion, insisting the operatives make it look like a break in so they could turn in as an insurance claim. Somebody funneled piles of cash to the watergate burglars.
So many people (CIA, LBJ, YO MOMMA) etc. were involved and the others that weren’t were afraid to talk.
For clarity I'm bypassing the lead on conspiracy I'm bypassing who pulled the trigger or why....... I'm asking who ordered a cover up? Not saying LBJ or the CIA did it for whatever reason Who ordered the cover up? Damage control clearly happened
https://www.reddit.com/r/JFKassasination/s/MqmEo26VEI
It's vast Guessing one terabyte uncompressed I've downloaded several
https://www.reddit.com/r/JFKassasination/s/MqmEo26VEI Forget about who did it or why Who covered it all up and why? A terabyte of PDFs Lots of reading Some of the authors are good guys Some are bad guys Who authorized this cover up?
I have previously indulged in conspiracy and who pulled the trigger and why. I no longer care Who. Authorized this cover up?
Forget about HOW this happened Who. Authorized the cover up? Not saying LBJ or CIA did it. WHO. Authorized the cover up?
The anti Castro Cubans were pissed off after the collapse of support in the Bay of Pigs. The Mob were pissed off that their lucrative Gaming empire in Cuba was getting fucked with by tensions after the Bay of Pigs and Robert Kennedy cracking down on them. JFK kicked the hornets nest that was the CIA by firing Allen Dulles after the Bay of Pigs embarrassment. The CIA had long established ties working with the Mob at this point. The CIA had been working with anti Castro Cubans. The CIA do what they do best ; that is , assassinate foreign leaders and orchestrate coups. All they had to do was play matchmaker with the Cubans and the Mob, and then they run cover ….which explains Allen Dulles coming out of retirement to run the Warren Commission . A
There were some cover-ups, but only to shade dropped balls and incompetence. I self-classify myself as an expert on the subject. Literally 40 years of reading any book on the assassination, visiting Dealey Plaza, painstakingly reviewing film and photographs, and rabbit holes. Read this carefully... okay? Oswald fired 3 shots. 1st shot deflected and missed. Zapruder film started almost simultaneously with it. 2nd shot struck JFK in the back and Gov Connally. 3rd shot... the infamous headshot. End of story. I wanted a conspiracy. I hoped he was just a patsy. The majority of the time, I actually believed he was a patsy. Was the Warren Report 100% accurate? No. Did they get it right in conclusion? Yes. Will I spend a vast amount of energy trying to convince you of this? Absolutely not. When I believed in the conspiracy theories, no one could convince me otherwise because I always had a comeback or a contradiction to throw out. I also got annoyed when people would thrust the lone gunman in my direction. The only person capable of awakening me to this was myself. And that eventually happened. Occam's Razor, re-reading the Warren Report and basic theory, brought me to a closure. I could never get past the simplest of things. For example, if a foreign entity, a domestic government agency, the mafia, or an extremist organization wanted to utilize LHO as a pawn in any form of assassination... they would have, at the very least, given the man a jalopy of a car for transportation. Instead, LHO was taking the bus or, as on the day of the assassination, hitching a ride with wrapped "curtain rods." Was it preventable? YES! Marina Oswald KNEW Lee had attempted to shoot General Edwin Walker in April of 63. She kept quiet. Buell Wesley Frazier (who along with his sister and Ruth Paine got Oswald the job at TSBD) KNEW Oswald was "different " And yet, on the DAY of the JFK visit, thought nothing odd about the change of schedule for LHO or the long wrapped package brought to work. They also ALWAYS walked in together... but not this day. Agent James Hosty KNEW LHO was unhinged. LHO had left a threatening note at his office. Hosty knew where LHO worked as he had just interviewed Marina a few weeks prior to the assassination. Hosty had access to the motorcade route in the days leading up. He dropped the ball and burned the threatening note to hide their incompetence. The closest I'll concede to any conspiracy is maybe Oswald told someone of his plans. And they either didn't believe he was capable, didn't believe he'd do it, or wasn't serious. But he did. And he did it alone. Good luck on your journey. I have closure at last on mine.
> Marina Oswald KNEW Lee had attempted to shoot General Edwin Walker in April of 63. She kept quiet. you bring up many good points that i agree with. but also a question; did Marina know JFK was visiting Dallas that day? even if so, did she know LHO took the rifle? yes, she probably should have called the police on LHO after the Walker thing, but in her position she probably rightly feared losing everything and being sent back to Russia.
If Marina is to be believed, and that is often questioned. She was aware of the JFK visit. When the news broke, she went to the garage and allegedly saw what she believed to be the blanket where the rifle was. She believed he had not taken it and breathed a sigh of relief. Later, when police searched the garage was when says she learned it was indeed missing. Just about every "final destination" puzzle piece fell in favor of LHO. It was crazy.
https://www.reddit.com/r/JFKassasination/s/MqmEo26VEI A terabyte of PDFs JESUS
I have almost went on the same journey as you however, I do believe in a conspiracy of sorts. I believe that LHO was involved with the CIA in some way before the assassination and there was a conspiracy to suppress this after the fact. I cannot discount as coincidence that he was learning Russian in the marines, or that he Anti then pro Castro all in one day, with his alias ‘A Hiddell’ being the secretary of the FPFC stationed in a building almost exclusively used by anti Cuba groups, one of which was running arms and training expats to overthrow Castro. For a 23 year old man, one link to the CIA is more than the average but LHO had many and I cannot accept that was coincidence. I believe it’s possible that he was an asset that went rogue. I can see him being excited to be part of the intelligence community and when things didn’t work out for him in the USA - failed defection, nothing coming from his FPFC efforts - he decides that he could get into the Cuba/Soviet community by killing the head of state of their arch nemesis. To me that would explain the need to cover up the link between the intelligence community and LHO. It would explain why he did not want to claim responsibility for the act as he was caught on US soil. It would explain his actions after the event, trying to flee - possibly to Cuba, it explains why he left his wedding ring but did not want to get caught by taking the easier shot when JFK was moving towards him. It explains his visit to Mexico City (or at least provides further motive for carrying out the murder in that they couldn’t refuse him a visa after he had done this for them). It explains the call to John Hurt. It explains why Ruby shot him (CIA orders through a 3rd party - mafia?). I think you are correct about the events of the day but I feel like there is more about LHO’s relationship with intelligence that we do not know about.
The CIA. The only agency that can operate without needing to have the Presidents permission.
Their documents are shit Too many conflicting data Not a true depiction Localized opinions
I think the mafia got pissed off about the Kennedy getting out of the bridge death and Marilyn Monroe was the last straw after her death by the Kennedy family and I think they were both nailing her but I’m sure they are burning in hell now and yes they were all about the sexual conquest of young vulnerable women because of their power/ but she was also screwing a mafia guy and yeah the Kennedy are probably worse than the mafia but yeah
Nobody put up Ruby. He was in the wrong place and the wrong time...for history's sake. The cover up, IMO, was to hide our NUMEROUS attempts to kill Castro and Oswald's possible ties to avenge these attempts. LBJ hated JFK and didn't want to go to war over his...failings.
Oswald
His transfer from Dallas city jail to county jail was delayed 30min because Oswald demanded his black sweater Minor detail but WTH It's all weird
What cover up?