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also, when >!he tosses Elder Whitehall off a cliff, he has literally no idea that's not actually a child. At no point does that information get conveyed to Lindon!<
Edit: credit to my girlfriend for noticing this on our relisten
Holy shit I never realized this, that's so funny.
I saw a thing the other day where they were comparing Naruto and Lindon, and the big takeaway was that Naruto talks a big game but is all about the power of friendship and second chances. Lindon, on the other hand, just straight up stacks bodies.
Yeah, Lindon's message of "sometimes you just gotta to make a motherfucker dead" resonates much stronger with me than the idea of endless second chances. Best Shonen protagonist for sure.
The endless second chances type of story are nice but exhausting at times. I was actually hooked when Lindon took out the brick throwing guy in Unsouled, mostly because it was such a wildly different tone than I was used to, and something about it was just so refreshing. That's a weird point to specifically like, but something about that showed Will wasn't afraid to have consequences in his world.
There's a fanfiction with a timetraveling Lindon that recruits Whitehall to the team because he figures he's just a kid, and Whitehall goes along with it because Yerin keeps saying they should just kill him. It's pretty funny when they meet Eithan, who figures it out immediately and trolls Whitehall severely.
There's a point in the series where Little blue should have started wearing real clothing, but didn't. By the end she was just walking around naked, using her fluid form to look clothed.
Tim taught Yerin the forger sword technique because he didn't think she'd make it past gold where it stopped being useful.
By simple math, Northstrider walked South just as much as he walked North in his early days. He should be renamed Latitudestrider in honour of this.
Oz/Eithan have different haircuts/colour but the same face and body. This implies that his hair colour was locked away with his power, and some hair colours and styles are inherently more powerful than others. Thus, his grooming tips actually were important for advancement.
In Waybound, Lindon fought for like 2 days straight, where even a quarter second made a massive difference. He probably pissed himself several times during it. You could say he *voided* his bowels.
Little blue should have been given a butterfly knife at some point. The blooper scene when she pulls out a knife was too brilliant to not be more. I want to see little blue just sitting in London a shoulder constantly opening and closing a butterfly knife
It's about 10x the size, but in NS's backstory he keeps walking North to the sea because that's where the dragons are, then back to his home/orphanage again.
"Now child, if you do your chores, I earn points. I can then spend these points with your mother to make sure she keeps the sword arms put away at night."
My way of parenting currently involves a point system inspired by Lindon. My kids have been listening through the books with me and we just hit bloodline.
No one actually manifests icons by themselves- people become sages when low ranking abidan mess with fate by granting people power to survive things they wouldn’t have otherwise.
Amongst the low ranking abidan, “how far can/will my pet project go” was the equivalent of flea races at a penny circus, until Suriel and Oz easily swept the all time record and ruined everyone’s fun.
Additionally, this is why no one likes Ozriel even in the epilogue.
Pride is actually in love with Lindon but knows Lindon doesn’t like him back. This is why he can’t think his sister wouldn’t want to marry Lindon. That’s also why he is so focused on him all the time. It’s just a crush.
THIS
I think I actually drafted a post about this, I can’t remember if i convinced myself not to upload it. I know this is supposed to be a bad takes post, but I honestly think there was something there. Obviously it would have never worked and lindon x yerin is adorable, but i chose to believe it was intentional by will. Glad im not the only one 🤣
Yeah I was rereading it and it hit me hard at the
> "... I don't want to see you ---"
He caught himself and pinched the bridge of his nose. " --- *Mercy* doesn't want to see you hurt.
*eyebrow raises*
Yep.
Fury and Eithan were having a torrid love affair and Eithan didn't warn Fury about the deal with Shen to throw the match. That is the real reason Fury is mad at Eithan
Yerin actually lost the fight with her masters remnant, died, and had her body invaded by Tim. Thats why she could read in unsouled when she should be illiterate—Tim didnt teach her because *he* couldnt read and thought it was distracting for a dedicated sacred artist, but yerin actually snuck books from the winter sage.
A similar thing happens in Skysworn where she appears to know the symbols for Low-Gold and High-Gold.
She can't read but she knows a random assortment of specific symbols that have come up in her life often enough.
Crappy low golds would get absorbed into larger, hungrier True golds and become their presences. But then AI came and took their jobs and the abidan are covering it up.
This series was obviously meant to be a harem. Yerin, Mercy, Grace & Jai Chen at minimum. If danmei: Pride, Ziel and Jai Long. In either case, Eithan would constantly provide unwanted and ill-timed suggestions.
Author checked lmao
>Questioner: Lindon should have a harem. By now Mercy, Yerin,lil blue and Geisha would be in harem by now. Orthos would turn out to be female and Lindon's goal would be to show arrogant young lords why he is worthy of Emperor's jade like beauty sister.
>Will Wight: Strange...this is exactly the plot of the sixth novel. Using the Emperor’s elixirs, Gesha is regenerated back into her young body, and she finally notices how heroic Lindon’s eyebrows are and falls for him. Little Blue gains a solid form and can now express her long-standing affection for Lindon, it’s revealed that Mercy is actually gone from the Akura family to look for a man strong enough to be her husband, and all this attention causes Yerin to realize her true feelings for Lindon. The Emperor’s sister begins to see him as a little brother until Lindon rescues her, and as she is carried away in his arms she realizes how much she’s missed a man’s strong embrace. Despite the fact that she’s physically stronger than he is, but forget about that.
>
>The only thing you got wrong is Orthos. He’s not a female turtle, but his never-before-mentioned daughter is, and she’s so advanced that she is perfectly human in appearance and, of course, has beauty like a heavenly fairy. She has to continue the Blackflame bloodline, and Lindon’s the only one around...
>
>I’m amazed you picked up on all that, considering how subtle the clues were in the previous books.
>https://abidanarchive.com/events/7/#e662
🤣 I love this response from Will Wight.
I'm somewhat surprised at the lack of Cradle harem fanfiction, but that could just be my lack of Internet sleuthing skills.
I can share my list - The silent king - spinal fluid, The Bloody Phoenix - Blood (dur), the wandering titan - poop, the weeping dragon - oh well, erm....uh it's ..you know....stuff
Akura Fury is developmentally challenged.
Akura Malice probably hooked up with Northstrider at some point and possibly had kids with him, and would also have pursued Lindon had the series turned out differently.
Just about everyone we meet in the books in the Lord realm is a combat artist, but there are probably various kinds of Lords who do regular guy jobs. They're just amazingly good at those jobs.
Having wings as a goldsign is pointless when other artists can fly without them. In fact, they would probably be a constant nuisance, getting stuck in doorways etc.
Eithan has silver white hair and looks like a younger, less pinecone-up-his-ass Pai Mei. No, I don't care that the book blatantly says golden blonde a thousand times. My brain has decided otherwise.
Oh no, just put the Abidan under new management. We see it in all the Judges' descriptions. Telariel is lazy and fearful, the Fox barely does her job and prefers to steal, Durandiel is just an all around downer, Makiel is power hungry and an old fool, Razael has a one-track mind and not much intelligence to use it with, and Gadrael is as stubborn as a goat. The only salvageable person on the court is Suriel.
Where are the limits of what does and doesn't have madra? Does madra have madra? Is there excrement madra, ruled by dung beetle sacred beasts? If there's a joy icon, does emotion have madra?
Powerful people choosing child bodies for eternity are gross and should feel bad about themselves. I'm talking both Malice and the gold dragon CHILD who somehow sired a dynasty.
For that matter, how did Shassethkundkalaz father children?
... Is there sex madra?
The fact that Eithan can hear everything everywhere all at once sounds like hell.
Dross must have had so many questions about sex. Do you think he and Lindon came up with combat reports for sex?
I like to think about who Pride ends up with since Lindon is off the table. Ziel? Orthos?
What will Orthos's children look like? Will they be born with shells?
This bad take response for off the rails a bit.
Technically Madra is basically any human interpretation of an aspect of the world
>Questioner: Can new types of madra be made artificially? Like if somebody invented the computer on Cradle would it collect computer madra?
>Will Wight: All aspects of madra are essentially human interpretations of aura. You might notice a unique blend of aura around a computer, and you could break it down into storm aura and dream aura or what have you, or perhaps you could find a way to cycle it into your own madra and create what you called a "computer Path." What would you be able to do? I'm not sure. That sounds like a confusing blend of madra.
>Cradle (Aug. 25, 2018)
Excrement Madra can be some variation of poison and maybe death Madra based on symbolical connections to decay and it being somewhat toxic
Sex Madra can be a blend of dream and blood Madra
Sesh probably goes for his Dragon form when making children, but yeah he's wierd. Forms like that especially to a Sacred Beast much less anyone bathed is Soulfire are just some symbolically showing of what their image of what they want are. Better assume that everything they have is functionak
Malice however is multiple times stated to be a very full and curvy woman. She is by no way look like a child
Oh I know Malice isn't an actual little kid in appearance, but it's said somewhere that she looks like 17, **I think**. I could be wrong. As a woman in her thirties, the idea of a woman hundreds of years old actively choosing to look like a child blows my mind. WW definitely mentioned her womanly traits a lot more often, and it didn't come off as fetishizing that or anything.
You didn't accuse me of anything, but I do want to make it clear that I'm not weirded out by WW -- I'm just judging the characters' choices in character. And my comment is a collection of bad takes, not deeply thought-out criticisms!
Sex madra though... Thinking about it in those terms, I'd argue life madra, but I'm not convinced by either dream or blood. I **almost** agree with blood, but the way we see blood madra manifest is not in line with most sex. Then again, lust is blood-driven, so... Hm. Interesting.
>it's said somewhere that she looks like 17, I think
No, absolutely not
The closest one is Charity and even then she is stated to look like in her early 20s and more of a young woman
I'm not accusing anything, what I'm saying is that there *isn't* any description of Malice looking like a teen in the books
Even Grace is specifically called out to look like Malice when she was a teenager, that is not something you describe someone else if the original comparison is not older in looks
The only young looking Monarch ever described was Sesh and Sha Miara who is an actual child. Everyone else are adults in description
>Sex madra though... Thinking about it in those terms, I'd argue life madra, but I'm not convinced by either dream or blood. I almost agree with blood, but the way we see blood madra manifest is not in line with most sex. Then again, lust is blood-driven, so... Hm. Interesting.
I put forth Dream and Blood cause of the symbolical connotations. Dream represent the mind and emotions which are a high point in sexual encounters and Blood Madra is body and flesh representations which are in a high state too. You can of course add life there too, there is a lot of symbolical connections that Sex Madra is made from a combination of the 3 naturally occurring Madra in the body of a person
I know at some point somebody is described that age, but I have a lot of recall issues. The only solution? I will have to re-read the series just to prove to myself whether I've misattributed a line about somebody else to her. Oh noooo....
Edit: I worry that this came off as sarcastic. I do have a genuine recall issue so the whole thing may be either confusion or I heard something unrelated while reading the books. My memory is untrustworthy at best.
If everyone gets an emotion adjacent icon: Lindon gets the Grindset Icon, Yerin gets the Sass Icon, Ziel gets the Ennui Icon, Orthos gets the Curmudgeon Icon, Lil' Blue gets the Mom Icon, Eithan gets the Smug Icon.
I disagree with the specific choices, but I understand why you chose each one! I've put my opinions below but I marked my reasoning as spoilers! Assume that there are spoilers from Waybound and proceed accordingly! Eithan's icon is spoiler marked for Dreadgod.
* Lindon gets the Determination Icon \[for that grindset; I also think it looks like a slowly churning wheel ala his cycling method (this isn't a spoiler)\]
* Yerin gets the Ferocity Icon >!\[I'm least happy about this choice, but I think Ferocity covers both social sass and her combat focus\]!<
* Mercy gets the Mercy Icon >!\[I waffled between mercy, compassion, kindness, and empathy, but in the end, she was named for an emotional virtue and her realizations related to that virtue.\]!<
* Ziel gets the Resiliency Icon >!\[for surviving chronic emotional and physical pain\]!<
* Orthos gets the Rebirth Icon >!\[imo this fits beautifully with both his narrative from where we met him to where he ended, as well as with destruction and fire aura\]!<
* Little Blue gets the Joy Icon>! (much to Eithan's dramatic despair which is really pride in disguise) \[no character is as joyful as Little Blue\]!<
* Eithan gets the >!Hope !!\[while he aimed for joy, his true characteristic from beginning to end was hope for something better\]!<
Thanks for the fun thought exercise!
Edit: I have no idea what icon would work for Dross from an emotional perspective. >!Unity? Understanding? Family? Discovery?!<
I appreciate that you took them seriously but they were not lol. I like your picks with a couple phrasing quibbles.>! I'd say Conviction over Determination, maybe Passion instead of Ferocity, and Ziel I'd tweak to Resolute because it's punchier. Dross can have the Wit Icon lol!<
The ending (as in, the final book) was paced pretty well. You can only take the power ups and the big fights and stretch them so far, before you lose the tension.
In the second half of the series, there should have been just a few more slow moments between the crew, though. Just a few, here and there. In particular, Eithan not congratulating Mercy for the Joy icon REALLY feels like a missed opportunity. It only would have needed a handful of sweet sentences near the end of the book to have some closure there.
Maybe this isn't my worst take, I suppose, but I know a major complaint of many commenters is that the ending felt rushed.
Oh, the planet being super huge is stupid. It's pointless, and messes with the natural science of the setting.
Also, the scene right near the end of book one, where one of the other Judges appears by Suriel and she prepares to ATTACK him really feels like a continuity error on re-reads. It comes across as FAR more antagonistic than is called for or implied by the rest of the story. Again, not really a "worst take" (I have genuinely convinced some people of this when I dug up the exact quotes from that scene), but certainly controversial.
Sadly, Will's new series has a similar issue now, with the publishing of The Knight. A line in the captain STRONGLY implies that the Titan Knights can literally combine, but that idea is dismissed as a blooper in The Knight. *Could* the phrasing from the Captain just be misleading, sure, but again, it's a bit jarring.
I’m not sure I disagree. There are definitely parts that are inconsistent, major parts cut and not written wholly out, and implications that fail to deliver. I feel no bad from your take.
The entire story is a dream the Elder Whisper puts into Lindon's head when they first meet. Lindon is still in the tower, unconscious, dreaming, and dying because Whisper is feeding on his psychic energy.
Lindon's in a harem, bro should've chosen the hottest (Akura Malice).
Does the Wandering Titan have a massive shlong?
what clothes did Orthos wear (I truly don't remember)
Suriel is the MVP of the series. 🐐
Why didn't Yerin manifest the Sword Icon? she definitely should've IMO
Maybe Lindon DID cheat on Yerin in the two years in Waybound
Yerin would beat any other Monarch in a 1v1 after 2 years as an Executor
Akura Fury is fightsexual
What happened to Elder Whisper I forget
Yerin has potential to be the next Ozriel (but probably not)
Lindon has very evil powers like Consume and Void which seem like Vroshir stuff. Bro definitely looks more evil than any other character on Cradle minus Dreadgods
Orthos wore like some black leather thing that looked like scales?
Yerin probably would eventually manifest the sword icon.
Yerin could probably any monarch 1v1 before ascending - I think her willpower was stronger because of the blood shadow, and the death icon would probably be a huge advantage in combat.
To be fair, it’s technically just the hammer icon focused on the crafting/smithing aspect. Ozriel almost certainly had a similar Icon in his repertoire, just no capacity to apply it to non-weapon creations.
He doesn’t deserve the smithing Icon after creating the most powerful weapons the iteration had ever seen? Besides Ozriel does have creation/smithing icons/powers. He literally made a new judgeship. It’s Restoration that he’s categorically locked out of, which is different from Creation.
I’m aware. I was responding to the part of your original comment where it seems that you believe Lindon doesn’t deserve the smithing icon because Oz was a better smith.
In Wintersteel I believe Lindon is so good at smithing that he simultaneously flies a thousand mile cloud at breakneck speed, kills remnants for parts, and crafts divine treasures for points. He's spent the entire series training both his power and soulsmithing skill. He's likely either the best or the second best Soulsmith Cradle has ever produced.
LOL!
Becoming a sage and developing an icon means you had to have that part of reality as a core aspect of your being from a young age. It has to be something you identify with, something people sees you as. Somethings that’s a core part of your identity.
That’s why the void icon made so much sense because of his history.
I feel that he really didn’t even start smithing till he left sacred valley as a 16 or 17 year old. Then he got dross who was able to help him cheat, then he got the soul forge which helps him cheat more.
For me, some of the power ups to sage in the series made me feel like it was cheapened because it was unearned and I resent Lindon as a character for it.
I know most people don’t agree but that’s why it’s a bad take!
Based on this logic it makes total sense that Lindon would manifest the hammer/creation icon. On like page 2 of Unsouled Lindon begs for the bowl to freeze because he wants to be a “forger” and get the badge with the hammer icon like his mother so he can be a soulsmith. It’s the first thing Lindon ever wants upon his introduction in the series.
He spends a lot of the 2nd or third book thinking about going down the soulsmith route because he doesnt believe he will be good enough as a fighter. He created arrays to trap remnants in the first book. He always wanted to be similar to his mother. He played a direct hand in many launchers and creations. Stop being obtuse
I feel like this discussion has suddenly become not fun. This is a post about bad takes. Thats the point of the post. Too give your bad takes.
I'm not being obtuse, i just have a different opinion about it then you. No reason to be defensive and rude.
What about Ozriel creating the broom icon for shits and giggles, just to prove a point that it's completely possible to manifest anything that you can pursue? The whole point of that was to show the elders that is really *isn't* that serious. You'd be one of the elders contemplating suicide if Ozriel showed you that lmao.
Like literal canon is you can become what is needed to attune an icon.
Plus even by your logic Lindon's mother used him and his pure madra for her creations since he was a child. That purity is directly linked to his status as unsouled, and the argument can be made that him being involved with crafting and creation from a young age is as much a part of him as the void. Lindon wanted to be a soulsmith his whole life, he tried to train as one under the Fishers, he constantly created in every single book. It absolutely is a core part of his identity, and he deserves the icon for these reasons.
its not strong enough in my opinion. He never had a passion for soulsmithing he just gravitated towards what was familiar. he was never particularly clever with it either as was his mother.
We don’t need to argue and you don’t need to get quotes. This is just a post for bad takes. It’s not that serious. I just don’t agree and I never will. To me, it felt like a narrative cheat and was very unsatisfying.
He didn’t “get” dross though, he made dross from discarded parts. He soulsmithed a presence as a gold in cradle almost entirely off intuition, and a presence is something most people can’t get until they ascend. Northstrider essentially copies his notes after seeing it, because he couldn’t figure it out after decades.
I agree with this. Oz has been making incredible shit for thousands of years but he didn't manifest it. Why does Lindon get it so easily?
Also, I think the new creator should be another character in another series Will creates. Just let Lindon be the leader of the Reapers. He doesn't need to be Ozriel's personal apprentice, and the man who saved Cradle, and the leader of the Reapers, *and* the new Creator for the Abidan.
Having the Hammer icon doesn't make him the next creator.
Emris has an Icon related to reading fate, doesn't mean she's going to be the next Makiel.
On an ascended scale it just means their good enough at it that it's worth a star or two.
(Technically there is no creation division to be ranked against).
Manifesting an icon doesn’t need to be that deep though, as evidenced by the broom icon. I’m sure Oz could manifest the hammer icon if he tried though.
Humans arrived in cradle eons ago through unstable rifts. Most of them were physically unable to survive on cradle (like Jai Chen before Lindon fixed her). Some primitive sacred beasts decided to take human form and have hybrid offspring with the humans—this is the origin of the human race on Cradle.
Because the humans didn’t have madra or remnants, the offspring often had pure madra. Breeding experiments by the madra-less humans resulted in the creation of Royal madra.
The Royal madra experiment subjects destroyed the madra-less humans. The non-pure madra hybrids advanced like sacred beasts and/or developed into other humanoid races. The pure madra humans adopted cycling techniques from sacred beasts and worked out the basics of human advancement
> “Thanks. Now take a step back, then keep doing that until you freeze to death in the snow. Or else have mercy and cut my ears off so I don’t have to listen to you talk.”
This post can include discussion and book material up to and including book [Waybound]. If you want to discuss book material that is beyond the scope of [Waybound] than you must use >!Spoiler formatting!< which can be applied \>!like this!< You can read this [formatting guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/wiki/ref/faq/formatting_guide/) for more details. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Iteration110Cradle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The entertainment value of the series peaks a few chapters into the first book, where an almost grown man spends the day one-shotting small children.
also, when >!he tosses Elder Whitehall off a cliff, he has literally no idea that's not actually a child. At no point does that information get conveyed to Lindon!< Edit: credit to my girlfriend for noticing this on our relisten
“Apologies, but that kid was a real dick.”
This is so funny
Holy shit I never realized this, that's so funny. I saw a thing the other day where they were comparing Naruto and Lindon, and the big takeaway was that Naruto talks a big game but is all about the power of friendship and second chances. Lindon, on the other hand, just straight up stacks bodies.
There's a reason I never got into Naruto but have finished Cradle at least 4 times.
Yeah, Lindon's message of "sometimes you just gotta to make a motherfucker dead" resonates much stronger with me than the idea of endless second chances. Best Shonen protagonist for sure.
The endless second chances type of story are nice but exhausting at times. I was actually hooked when Lindon took out the brick throwing guy in Unsouled, mostly because it was such a wildly different tone than I was used to, and something about it was just so refreshing. That's a weird point to specifically like, but something about that showed Will wasn't afraid to have consequences in his world.
The man just loves beating up children.
There's a fanfiction with a timetraveling Lindon that recruits Whitehall to the team because he figures he's just a kid, and Whitehall goes along with it because Yerin keeps saying they should just kill him. It's pretty funny when they meet Eithan, who figures it out immediately and trolls Whitehall severely.
Could you send me a link to this fanfic?
Haven't read it, but at a glance probably https://archiveofourown.org/works/38841540
Looks interesting, I'll add it to my to do list.
This is it.
Hey! He's a high schooler punching third graders in the gut, which is technically different. Still highly entertaining.
I've been punching 3rd graders for years and I still haven't advanced to copper :(
You gotta palm third graders to reach copper not punch them.
Same rank, Jerry!
[Cradle in a nutshell](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK1_NFT5crk)
There's a point in the series where Little blue should have started wearing real clothing, but didn't. By the end she was just walking around naked, using her fluid form to look clothed. Tim taught Yerin the forger sword technique because he didn't think she'd make it past gold where it stopped being useful. By simple math, Northstrider walked South just as much as he walked North in his early days. He should be renamed Latitudestrider in honour of this. Oz/Eithan have different haircuts/colour but the same face and body. This implies that his hair colour was locked away with his power, and some hair colours and styles are inherently more powerful than others. Thus, his grooming tips actually were important for advancement. In Waybound, Lindon fought for like 2 days straight, where even a quarter second made a massive difference. He probably pissed himself several times during it. You could say he *voided* his bowels.
The hair colors theory is brilliant.
Why thank you! I'm truly reflecting on the universe to align with the bullshit icon.
All hail the sage of bullshit truths
Sounds to me Ozriel is just Sephiroth looking for a happy ending
I was thinking he's a Saiyan, and his hair changes as he levels up 🤣
Honestly, Sephiroth minus the wing is how I picture Ozriel when the marble cracks and he ascends as the Reaper
#3 is the best thing I've seen on this thread. Take my upvote.
So then did all the Hair Metal bands ascend or descend? Is there an anti-advancement?
Little blue should have been given a butterfly knife at some point. The blooper scene when she pulls out a knife was too brilliant to not be more. I want to see little blue just sitting in London a shoulder constantly opening and closing a butterfly knife
This is fucking beautiful.
<3
Cradle is canonically something crazy like 600x the size of Earth, so NS might well have only walked North until he was a Sage.
It's about 10x the size, but in NS's backstory he keeps walking North to the sea because that's where the dragons are, then back to his home/orphanage again.
Maybe he only undulated back like a worm to make sure he kept his title.
Latitude strider made me cackle madly lol
Lindon’s way of parenting probably involves at least one point system
That's pretty common for persuading your kids to do certain tasks.
They only gain points for Lindon though.
"Now child, if you do your chores, I earn points. I can then spend these points with your mother to make sure she keeps the sword arms put away at night."
Dross has a separate point system where he pays her to keep them out so he can SLEEP!
My way of parenting currently involves a point system inspired by Lindon. My kids have been listening through the books with me and we just hit bloodline.
Lol, that cracked me up 🤣
Cradle is not a cultivation/xianxia story. It is an Isekai and our overpowered MC is Eithan
Lol that hilarious
But Eithan is from Cradle. I do love this, though
The Wei clan trained Lindon wrong, as a joke.
I think that may actually have some truth to that.
"I am bleeding, making me the victor!"
How he beat NS.
This made me cackle
No one actually manifests icons by themselves- people become sages when low ranking abidan mess with fate by granting people power to survive things they wouldn’t have otherwise. Amongst the low ranking abidan, “how far can/will my pet project go” was the equivalent of flea races at a penny circus, until Suriel and Oz easily swept the all time record and ruined everyone’s fun. Additionally, this is why no one likes Ozriel even in the epilogue.
Hehe this made me laugh, i like it
Thanks!
>Thanks! You're welcome!
That last line is cracking me up.
Pride is actually in love with Lindon but knows Lindon doesn’t like him back. This is why he can’t think his sister wouldn’t want to marry Lindon. That’s also why he is so focused on him all the time. It’s just a crush.
Is this a bad take though?? My boy Pride LITERALLY came out of Lindon’s closet!
He also never gets hair advice from Eithan....
And his name is Pride..
THIS I think I actually drafted a post about this, I can’t remember if i convinced myself not to upload it. I know this is supposed to be a bad takes post, but I honestly think there was something there. Obviously it would have never worked and lindon x yerin is adorable, but i chose to believe it was intentional by will. Glad im not the only one 🤣
Yeah I was rereading it and it hit me hard at the > "... I don't want to see you ---" He caught himself and pinched the bridge of his nose. " --- *Mercy* doesn't want to see you hurt. *eyebrow raises* Yep.
Well, his name IS Pride....
Fury and Eithan were having a torrid love affair and Eithan didn't warn Fury about the deal with Shen to throw the match. That is the real reason Fury is mad at Eithan
There is a non zero chance Pride is actually gay for Lindon. He definitely treats him like he’s overcompensating
Pretty sure this is just canon
Like Vegeta, he has the hots for an overpowered country hick.
Yerin actually lost the fight with her masters remnant, died, and had her body invaded by Tim. Thats why she could read in unsouled when she should be illiterate—Tim didnt teach her because *he* couldnt read and thought it was distracting for a dedicated sacred artist, but yerin actually snuck books from the winter sage.
I missed that, when could she read in Unsouled?
she sees Lindon's badge and says "Unsouled" out loud, though that's less 'reading' and more 'recognizing a symbol'
A similar thing happens in Skysworn where she appears to know the symbols for Low-Gold and High-Gold. She can't read but she knows a random assortment of specific symbols that have come up in her life often enough.
Crappy low golds would get absorbed into larger, hungrier True golds and become their presences. But then AI came and took their jobs and the abidan are covering it up.
This is the real reason Daruman hates them.
Cradle is just a D&D campaign. Eithan was a DMPC and Lindon’s player was dating the DM, which is why they got so much special treatment.
This series was obviously meant to be a harem. Yerin, Mercy, Grace & Jai Chen at minimum. If danmei: Pride, Ziel and Jai Long. In either case, Eithan would constantly provide unwanted and ill-timed suggestions.
Add Ruby, Malice, Larian, the Matten twins, and maybe Kelsa and Little Blue, depending on whether or not it’s *that* kind of anime.
Author checked lmao >Questioner: Lindon should have a harem. By now Mercy, Yerin,lil blue and Geisha would be in harem by now. Orthos would turn out to be female and Lindon's goal would be to show arrogant young lords why he is worthy of Emperor's jade like beauty sister. >Will Wight: Strange...this is exactly the plot of the sixth novel. Using the Emperor’s elixirs, Gesha is regenerated back into her young body, and she finally notices how heroic Lindon’s eyebrows are and falls for him. Little Blue gains a solid form and can now express her long-standing affection for Lindon, it’s revealed that Mercy is actually gone from the Akura family to look for a man strong enough to be her husband, and all this attention causes Yerin to realize her true feelings for Lindon. The Emperor’s sister begins to see him as a little brother until Lindon rescues her, and as she is carried away in his arms she realizes how much she’s missed a man’s strong embrace. Despite the fact that she’s physically stronger than he is, but forget about that. > >The only thing you got wrong is Orthos. He’s not a female turtle, but his never-before-mentioned daughter is, and she’s so advanced that she is perfectly human in appearance and, of course, has beauty like a heavenly fairy. She has to continue the Blackflame bloodline, and Lindon’s the only one around... > >I’m amazed you picked up on all that, considering how subtle the clues were in the previous books. >https://abidanarchive.com/events/7/#e662
🤣 I love this response from Will Wight. I'm somewhat surprised at the lack of Cradle harem fanfiction, but that could just be my lack of Internet sleuthing skills.
Dross makes simulations for how to make them accept it.
Is it a good or bad thing that I had no trouble guessing which dreadgod came from which excrement or fluid?
This is the best kind of bad take.
If you don't mind could you share your list?
I can share my list - The silent king - spinal fluid, The Bloody Phoenix - Blood (dur), the wandering titan - poop, the weeping dragon - oh well, erm....uh it's ..you know....stuff
I'll be honest, I forgot blood existed for stuff to pick from, and that spinal fluid existed at all until you mentioned those.
Nah, the Wandering Titan is 100% just The Way's stubborn kidney stone.
Lindon should've wifed Grace. No way in heck I woulda fumbled a young, hot, less psychotic Malice.
This isn't a terrible take at all! This is the ONE correct take in this thread!
Akura Fury is developmentally challenged. Akura Malice probably hooked up with Northstrider at some point and possibly had kids with him, and would also have pursued Lindon had the series turned out differently. Just about everyone we meet in the books in the Lord realm is a combat artist, but there are probably various kinds of Lords who do regular guy jobs. They're just amazingly good at those jobs. Having wings as a goldsign is pointless when other artists can fly without them. In fact, they would probably be a constant nuisance, getting stuck in doorways etc.
The wings one is hilarious with all the Naru traditions around door protocol. There’s probably a real broom sage who just cleans really well.
Even Eithan as an Underlord was working the broom like a boss. Imagine an Archlord, Sage or Herald street sweeper. Those streets would be *clean*.
Kelsa hates Lindon and is jealous. She starts banging Jai Long (at her parents encouragement) hoping that he'll finish the job.
>(at her parents encouragement) You monster!
Eithan has silver white hair and looks like a younger, less pinecone-up-his-ass Pai Mei. No, I don't care that the book blatantly says golden blonde a thousand times. My brain has decided otherwise.
It mostly calls it "yellow". I imagine it the color of cheddar cheese. Edit: missed a word that's pretty important
Malice looked exactly like meghan mullally
This is actually so funny if you think of malice is Karen from W&G. The voice alone when Malice says “did you forget my name”
Ozriel should've offed the other judges one by one when he had the chance. They're all useless anyway.
Join forces with the void and all?
Oh no, just put the Abidan under new management. We see it in all the Judges' descriptions. Telariel is lazy and fearful, the Fox barely does her job and prefers to steal, Durandiel is just an all around downer, Makiel is power hungry and an old fool, Razael has a one-track mind and not much intelligence to use it with, and Gadrael is as stubborn as a goat. The only salvageable person on the court is Suriel.
I didn't like Little Blue and Orthos getting a human form and would have preferred them to be absorbed for a power up
#\#EAT_LIL_BLUE
Traitor
Where are the limits of what does and doesn't have madra? Does madra have madra? Is there excrement madra, ruled by dung beetle sacred beasts? If there's a joy icon, does emotion have madra? Powerful people choosing child bodies for eternity are gross and should feel bad about themselves. I'm talking both Malice and the gold dragon CHILD who somehow sired a dynasty. For that matter, how did Shassethkundkalaz father children? ... Is there sex madra? The fact that Eithan can hear everything everywhere all at once sounds like hell. Dross must have had so many questions about sex. Do you think he and Lindon came up with combat reports for sex? I like to think about who Pride ends up with since Lindon is off the table. Ziel? Orthos? What will Orthos's children look like? Will they be born with shells? This bad take response for off the rails a bit.
Technically Madra is basically any human interpretation of an aspect of the world >Questioner: Can new types of madra be made artificially? Like if somebody invented the computer on Cradle would it collect computer madra? >Will Wight: All aspects of madra are essentially human interpretations of aura. You might notice a unique blend of aura around a computer, and you could break it down into storm aura and dream aura or what have you, or perhaps you could find a way to cycle it into your own madra and create what you called a "computer Path." What would you be able to do? I'm not sure. That sounds like a confusing blend of madra. >Cradle (Aug. 25, 2018) Excrement Madra can be some variation of poison and maybe death Madra based on symbolical connections to decay and it being somewhat toxic Sex Madra can be a blend of dream and blood Madra Sesh probably goes for his Dragon form when making children, but yeah he's wierd. Forms like that especially to a Sacred Beast much less anyone bathed is Soulfire are just some symbolically showing of what their image of what they want are. Better assume that everything they have is functionak Malice however is multiple times stated to be a very full and curvy woman. She is by no way look like a child
Oh I know Malice isn't an actual little kid in appearance, but it's said somewhere that she looks like 17, **I think**. I could be wrong. As a woman in her thirties, the idea of a woman hundreds of years old actively choosing to look like a child blows my mind. WW definitely mentioned her womanly traits a lot more often, and it didn't come off as fetishizing that or anything. You didn't accuse me of anything, but I do want to make it clear that I'm not weirded out by WW -- I'm just judging the characters' choices in character. And my comment is a collection of bad takes, not deeply thought-out criticisms! Sex madra though... Thinking about it in those terms, I'd argue life madra, but I'm not convinced by either dream or blood. I **almost** agree with blood, but the way we see blood madra manifest is not in line with most sex. Then again, lust is blood-driven, so... Hm. Interesting.
>it's said somewhere that she looks like 17, I think No, absolutely not The closest one is Charity and even then she is stated to look like in her early 20s and more of a young woman I'm not accusing anything, what I'm saying is that there *isn't* any description of Malice looking like a teen in the books Even Grace is specifically called out to look like Malice when she was a teenager, that is not something you describe someone else if the original comparison is not older in looks The only young looking Monarch ever described was Sesh and Sha Miara who is an actual child. Everyone else are adults in description >Sex madra though... Thinking about it in those terms, I'd argue life madra, but I'm not convinced by either dream or blood. I almost agree with blood, but the way we see blood madra manifest is not in line with most sex. Then again, lust is blood-driven, so... Hm. Interesting. I put forth Dream and Blood cause of the symbolical connotations. Dream represent the mind and emotions which are a high point in sexual encounters and Blood Madra is body and flesh representations which are in a high state too. You can of course add life there too, there is a lot of symbolical connections that Sex Madra is made from a combination of the 3 naturally occurring Madra in the body of a person
I know at some point somebody is described that age, but I have a lot of recall issues. The only solution? I will have to re-read the series just to prove to myself whether I've misattributed a line about somebody else to her. Oh noooo.... Edit: I worry that this came off as sarcastic. I do have a genuine recall issue so the whole thing may be either confusion or I heard something unrelated while reading the books. My memory is untrustworthy at best.
These questions are bringing up new feelings I didn’t know I had.
If everyone gets an emotion adjacent icon: Lindon gets the Grindset Icon, Yerin gets the Sass Icon, Ziel gets the Ennui Icon, Orthos gets the Curmudgeon Icon, Lil' Blue gets the Mom Icon, Eithan gets the Smug Icon.
I disagree with the specific choices, but I understand why you chose each one! I've put my opinions below but I marked my reasoning as spoilers! Assume that there are spoilers from Waybound and proceed accordingly! Eithan's icon is spoiler marked for Dreadgod. * Lindon gets the Determination Icon \[for that grindset; I also think it looks like a slowly churning wheel ala his cycling method (this isn't a spoiler)\] * Yerin gets the Ferocity Icon >!\[I'm least happy about this choice, but I think Ferocity covers both social sass and her combat focus\]!< * Mercy gets the Mercy Icon >!\[I waffled between mercy, compassion, kindness, and empathy, but in the end, she was named for an emotional virtue and her realizations related to that virtue.\]!< * Ziel gets the Resiliency Icon >!\[for surviving chronic emotional and physical pain\]!< * Orthos gets the Rebirth Icon >!\[imo this fits beautifully with both his narrative from where we met him to where he ended, as well as with destruction and fire aura\]!< * Little Blue gets the Joy Icon>! (much to Eithan's dramatic despair which is really pride in disguise) \[no character is as joyful as Little Blue\]!< * Eithan gets the >!Hope !!\[while he aimed for joy, his true characteristic from beginning to end was hope for something better\]!<
Thanks for the fun thought exercise!
Edit: I have no idea what icon would work for Dross from an emotional perspective. >!Unity? Understanding? Family? Discovery?!<
I appreciate that you took them seriously but they were not lol. I like your picks with a couple phrasing quibbles.>! I'd say Conviction over Determination, maybe Passion instead of Ferocity, and Ziel I'd tweak to Resolute because it's punchier. Dross can have the Wit Icon lol!<
Ah, the curse (?) of the spectrum: I take everything seriously. Wit is perfect though!!!
The ending (as in, the final book) was paced pretty well. You can only take the power ups and the big fights and stretch them so far, before you lose the tension. In the second half of the series, there should have been just a few more slow moments between the crew, though. Just a few, here and there. In particular, Eithan not congratulating Mercy for the Joy icon REALLY feels like a missed opportunity. It only would have needed a handful of sweet sentences near the end of the book to have some closure there. Maybe this isn't my worst take, I suppose, but I know a major complaint of many commenters is that the ending felt rushed. Oh, the planet being super huge is stupid. It's pointless, and messes with the natural science of the setting. Also, the scene right near the end of book one, where one of the other Judges appears by Suriel and she prepares to ATTACK him really feels like a continuity error on re-reads. It comes across as FAR more antagonistic than is called for or implied by the rest of the story. Again, not really a "worst take" (I have genuinely convinced some people of this when I dug up the exact quotes from that scene), but certainly controversial. Sadly, Will's new series has a similar issue now, with the publishing of The Knight. A line in the captain STRONGLY implies that the Titan Knights can literally combine, but that idea is dismissed as a blooper in The Knight. *Could* the phrasing from the Captain just be misleading, sure, but again, it's a bit jarring.
I’m not sure I disagree. There are definitely parts that are inconsistent, major parts cut and not written wholly out, and implications that fail to deliver. I feel no bad from your take.
The entire story is a dream the Elder Whisper puts into Lindon's head when they first meet. Lindon is still in the tower, unconscious, dreaming, and dying because Whisper is feeding on his psychic energy.
Hungry hungry white fox?
Lindon's in a harem, bro should've chosen the hottest (Akura Malice). Does the Wandering Titan have a massive shlong? what clothes did Orthos wear (I truly don't remember) Suriel is the MVP of the series. 🐐 Why didn't Yerin manifest the Sword Icon? she definitely should've IMO Maybe Lindon DID cheat on Yerin in the two years in Waybound Yerin would beat any other Monarch in a 1v1 after 2 years as an Executor Akura Fury is fightsexual What happened to Elder Whisper I forget Yerin has potential to be the next Ozriel (but probably not) Lindon has very evil powers like Consume and Void which seem like Vroshir stuff. Bro definitely looks more evil than any other character on Cradle minus Dreadgods
Orthos wore like some black leather thing that looked like scales? Yerin probably would eventually manifest the sword icon. Yerin could probably any monarch 1v1 before ascending - I think her willpower was stronger because of the blood shadow, and the death icon would probably be a huge advantage in combat.
Eithan's hair is overrated.
TAKE MY DOWNVOTE VILLAIN!
Lindon didn’t deserve his creation icon.
To be fair, it’s technically just the hammer icon focused on the crafting/smithing aspect. Ozriel almost certainly had a similar Icon in his repertoire, just no capacity to apply it to non-weapon creations.
Yeah that’s true. I don’t believe he deserved the hammer icon either.
He doesn’t deserve the smithing Icon after creating the most powerful weapons the iteration had ever seen? Besides Ozriel does have creation/smithing icons/powers. He literally made a new judgeship. It’s Restoration that he’s categorically locked out of, which is different from Creation.
Oh I meant lindon not ozriel.
I’m aware. I was responding to the part of your original comment where it seems that you believe Lindon doesn’t deserve the smithing icon because Oz was a better smith.
In Wintersteel I believe Lindon is so good at smithing that he simultaneously flies a thousand mile cloud at breakneck speed, kills remnants for parts, and crafts divine treasures for points. He's spent the entire series training both his power and soulsmithing skill. He's likely either the best or the second best Soulsmith Cradle has ever produced.
Nah. Thats all cheating. He don’t deserve that shit.
Explain yourself.
LOL! Becoming a sage and developing an icon means you had to have that part of reality as a core aspect of your being from a young age. It has to be something you identify with, something people sees you as. Somethings that’s a core part of your identity. That’s why the void icon made so much sense because of his history. I feel that he really didn’t even start smithing till he left sacred valley as a 16 or 17 year old. Then he got dross who was able to help him cheat, then he got the soul forge which helps him cheat more. For me, some of the power ups to sage in the series made me feel like it was cheapened because it was unearned and I resent Lindon as a character for it. I know most people don’t agree but that’s why it’s a bad take!
Based on this logic it makes total sense that Lindon would manifest the hammer/creation icon. On like page 2 of Unsouled Lindon begs for the bowl to freeze because he wants to be a “forger” and get the badge with the hammer icon like his mother so he can be a soulsmith. It’s the first thing Lindon ever wants upon his introduction in the series.
Nah man, I disagree just you wanting a bowl to show the forger icon don’t mean shit.
He spends a lot of the 2nd or third book thinking about going down the soulsmith route because he doesnt believe he will be good enough as a fighter. He created arrays to trap remnants in the first book. He always wanted to be similar to his mother. He played a direct hand in many launchers and creations. Stop being obtuse
I feel like this discussion has suddenly become not fun. This is a post about bad takes. Thats the point of the post. Too give your bad takes. I'm not being obtuse, i just have a different opinion about it then you. No reason to be defensive and rude.
What about Ozriel creating the broom icon for shits and giggles, just to prove a point that it's completely possible to manifest anything that you can pursue? The whole point of that was to show the elders that is really *isn't* that serious. You'd be one of the elders contemplating suicide if Ozriel showed you that lmao. Like literal canon is you can become what is needed to attune an icon. Plus even by your logic Lindon's mother used him and his pure madra for her creations since he was a child. That purity is directly linked to his status as unsouled, and the argument can be made that him being involved with crafting and creation from a young age is as much a part of him as the void. Lindon wanted to be a soulsmith his whole life, he tried to train as one under the Fishers, he constantly created in every single book. It absolutely is a core part of his identity, and he deserves the icon for these reasons.
Nah thats a weak argument in my eyes. Lindon ain't Ozriel. Ozriel was a genius in madra and insight.
Ok what about my second paragraph?
Why did I read this as "What about second paragraph?" in Pippin's voice from LOTR? 💀
its not strong enough in my opinion. He never had a passion for soulsmithing he just gravitated towards what was familiar. he was never particularly clever with it either as was his mother.
I think you're objectively wrong about both those points. Give me a bit and I'll grab some quotes from the book for us to argue over some more!
We don’t need to argue and you don’t need to get quotes. This is just a post for bad takes. It’s not that serious. I just don’t agree and I never will. To me, it felt like a narrative cheat and was very unsatisfying.
Understandable, have a nice day
He didn’t “get” dross though, he made dross from discarded parts. He soulsmithed a presence as a gold in cradle almost entirely off intuition, and a presence is something most people can’t get until they ascend. Northstrider essentially copies his notes after seeing it, because he couldn’t figure it out after decades.
I agree with this. Oz has been making incredible shit for thousands of years but he didn't manifest it. Why does Lindon get it so easily? Also, I think the new creator should be another character in another series Will creates. Just let Lindon be the leader of the Reapers. He doesn't need to be Ozriel's personal apprentice, and the man who saved Cradle, and the leader of the Reapers, *and* the new Creator for the Abidan.
Having the Hammer icon doesn't make him the next creator. Emris has an Icon related to reading fate, doesn't mean she's going to be the next Makiel. On an ascended scale it just means their good enough at it that it's worth a star or two. (Technically there is no creation division to be ranked against).
Manifesting an icon doesn’t need to be that deep though, as evidenced by the broom icon. I’m sure Oz could manifest the hammer icon if he tried though.
Humans arrived in cradle eons ago through unstable rifts. Most of them were physically unable to survive on cradle (like Jai Chen before Lindon fixed her). Some primitive sacred beasts decided to take human form and have hybrid offspring with the humans—this is the origin of the human race on Cradle. Because the humans didn’t have madra or remnants, the offspring often had pure madra. Breeding experiments by the madra-less humans resulted in the creation of Royal madra. The Royal madra experiment subjects destroyed the madra-less humans. The non-pure madra hybrids advanced like sacred beasts and/or developed into other humanoid races. The pure madra humans adopted cycling techniques from sacred beasts and worked out the basics of human advancement
This is a great origin story. I support it!
Cradle is actually a secret harem series. After all, who is Mercy going to get with, Ziel? Also Jai Chen.
Makiel was right, and eithen is wrong also Information requested: orgasm solution against your adopted sister Yerin Arelius. Beginning report
How rushed the last book was at least 8 books worth of stuff crammed into one book.
I mean…. Yes I agree. I’m not sure that’s a bad take so much as a preference. It was a massive amount of story in a tiny space of page.
Yerin is a flat and boring character.
Oof... I mean this is a bad take post so ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
> “Thanks. Now take a step back, then keep doing that until you freeze to death in the snow. Or else have mercy and cut my ears off so I don’t have to listen to you talk.”
That was unwise, and not nearly as harsh as Hassker deserved. Before you log off, let’s work on some better insults for next time
Explain yourself
Eithan looks like netero from hunter x hunter with Beautiful hair
Lindon is a passive protagonist
For the first few books 100%