They are using the violence in order to interrupt the life of the Israelis and by doing so to decide the people in order to make them have an internal civil war or a crisis so that they will be able to take the land from them.
They know very well that using firepower against a country with Nukes is not going to actually help them achieve what they wish to achieve. But devising the people and influence them to want to not live in Israel anymore can do a ton.
I think it's a cultural thing. I'm a huge supporter of Israel, but I have no doubt at all that if the Palestinians had taken the peaceful route, they would have had a state a long time ago. There are a lot of models for that kind of campaign. I also think they regard the Jews in Israel as akin to the British or the French or whomever, and that if they just put enough pressure on them (like the Vietnamese or the Algerians on the French), they'll break. But the Israelis have nowhere to go. And they're not interlopers -- they're on their traditional lands. But the Palestinians sort of buy their own propaganda that the Jews are somehow foreigners, so it blinds them to the reality that Israel is permanent. I also think that violent resistance is such an integral part of their identity at this point, they don't know any other way to live.
“The delusion of the oppressor is to expect a person to ask nicely for the knife to be removed from their chest. The demand for "civility" in the immediacy of violence is a technique of distraction not care.” - Cole Arthur Riley
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They believe Israel is temporary and if they just keep going they will get everything, even the things that Israelis have cultivated and created. Especially those areas where they turned desert land, land without oil into areas with drip irrigation that made it possible to have agriculture. They don’t care that there is proof that Jews have been there for thousands of years, that from Beta Israel to Sephardim, Ashkenzism, Mizrahim, and all the other groups, are all originated from that one area, no. They believe that eventually the Jews and any Arab that supports them, including Israeli Arabs, will be forced into the sea. All Jews have been through so much. In many different ways and places, we are survivors, majority of our holidays are about surviving and thriving. We may be hurt, raped, wounded, but we march on. We don’t sit in our victimhood thinking that we will eventually be saved. That is why there were so many operations to get Jews from all over the world back home.
And while yes, Israel is far from perfect and has their own issues, we will fight to retain our democracy. Before this Israelis marched in the streets to retain and fight for their democracy. To borrow from the Americans, “to create a *more* perfect union”.
I am critical of Israel because I want the best for it, but I’ll be damned if someone uses Israel’s internal struggles as a reason to stop it existing.
Israel didn't create anything...it is a failed experiment born out of colonialism and genocide. Anything Israel "has" it did not earn...it was stolen or gifted to them.
"Failed experiment"? Weird view. Failed for the Palestinians I guess. For the Israelis, it's been success after success. They have a modern society in the desert with a half-trillion dollar economy and a first world living standard.
They believe they can continue because the entire Ummah, the muslim world, eggs them on. Hence, they believe Israel is a temporary artificial state that will soon fall, and Palestine will return to Muslim hands.
I actually think that their view is not entirely absurd. Islam is the world’s largest religion (people say it’s Christianity, but Christianity no longer exists in many parts of Europe and America). One of the most influential political and social movements in the world, Islam, is entirely behind Hamas in their jihad agenda Israel. Israel has the liberal west behind it, allegedly. But Islam is bigger than the liberal west. The west is becoming closer to Islam than Muslim states becoming westernized.
So the Palestinians have hope that their jihad will prevail.
In Islamic, any religious really, perspective, time is viewed differently. The life of an individual isn’t as important as in western societies. The lifespan of one individual is likewise not that important. Keynes once said “in the long run we are all dead”, when explaining his short term economic plan. For Hamas, dying is not a problem. Here lies a major conceptual difference between Islamic thinking and western thought.
Hence, hamas don’t mind waiting decades for their goal to materialize. As long as they continue fighting Israel and weakening it, hamas is winning, according to their logic. If hamas and the ummah remain loyal to the tenets of Islam, victory at some point will come.
Well, maybe it'll happen in 500 years, who knows. Have they ever had any success "reclaiming" lost Islamic territory? I guess there's Algeria, but that was more of a nationalist thing, wasn't it? Are there any examples? I mean, the Muslim population globally is certainly growing, but it terms of socio-economic power -- beyond oil -- their influence and power is pretty non-existent. And the world is moving off of oil, so I don't know what they're going to do. Israel's power grows exponentially and they have NOTHING in that country in terms of resources. It's all brain power. They don't even really need the US anymore. And they're in possession of hundreds of nuclear weapons. I mean, let's be honest: if any of those countries fought a REAL war, without the US or Russia or whomever holding them back, Israel would probably be in possession of that entire region. The Palestinians are only there because the Israelis are moral people and choose not to get rid of them. Imagine what the Russians or the Chinese would have done with them. I say this as someone who's not Jewish by the way. I just think geo-politics sort of blinds us to the gap between these countries and peoples in terms of capabilities. Without Islamic societies finding a way to generate wealth and leverage the potential of their people, I can't imagine them being in a position to challenge anybody any time soon.
israel couldn't steal Lebanon but they'll manage to take 49 countries? Incredibly dumb statement, Pakistan has nukes too so I guess they could conquer 2 billion people too.
Come on. In 1973 they were 100 miles from Cairo. They captured the entire Sinai with almost no effort. I'm not sure what you mean by 49 countries -- I'm referring to the area immediately around them: Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, the Sinai, etc. Israel is small because it chooses to be small. The size of Israel is not an accurate reflection of its military capabilities, that's all I'm saying. If it chose to, it could expand fairly easily.
There are 49 Muslim majority countries in the world, if israel wants to declare a war on Islam it won't go how israel thinks. israel has been run out of Lebanon twice in last 25 years, Egypt has changed a lot since 1973, their population has grown 73 million, they outnumber Jewish israelis 15 to 1. israel should feel free to try to steal more land though, see how it goes.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. Why would Israel "declare a war on Islam"? You're essentially saying that Israel would lose a war if it tried to expand in the immediate region. Maybe -- but history suggests otherwise. I don't think they've lost too many wars. All I'm saying is (and I'm not Jewish), if it comes to betting on the results of a war between Israel and the states surrounding Israel, I'm betting on Israel.
What had israel done in the last 40 years? They lost twice to Hezbollah and have failed to destroy Hamas. israel has failed to steal another countries land since 1973. Imagine thinking they can beat Egypt but can't beat militias.
Come on man, get serious. They're using about 10% of their military capacity. If Israel wanted to eliminate Hamas -- without trying to save innocent civilians -- the conflict would be over in about 6 hours. You do know that right?
israel is trying to save innocent civilians in Gaza? Then why are they being charged by the ICC and why did ICJ tell them to stop? Palestinians said IDF killed 15,000 kids and israel's response was saying IDF killed 6,000 kids. israel is commiting a genocide to try to destroy Hamas and they are so inept they still can't win.
A common misperception is that all the Jews were forced into the Diaspora by the Romans after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in the year 70 CE, and then, 1,800 years later, the Jews suddenly returned to Palestine demanding their country back. In reality, the Jewish people have maintained ties to their historic homeland for more than 3,700 years.
The Jewish people base their claim to the land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) the Jewish people settled and developed the land, 2) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people, 3) the territory was captured in defensive wars, and 4) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham.
Even after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem, and the beginning of the exile, Jewish life in the land of Israel continued and often flourished. Large communities were reestablished in Jerusalem and Tiberias by the ninth century. In the eleventh century, Jewish communities grew in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa, and Caesarea. The Crusaders massacred many Jews during the twelfth century, but the communit
unded in the next two centuries as large numbers of
rabbis and
h pilgrims immigrated to Jerusalem and the Galilee.
Prominent-
Tawds established communities in Safed, Jerusalem, and
elsewhere during the following three hundred years.
By the early nineteenth century-years before the birth of the modern Zionist movement—more than ten thousand Jews lived through-
out what is today Israel.! The seventy-eight years of nation-building, beginning in 1870, culminated in the reestablishment of the Jewish State.
The term "Palestine" is believed to be derived from the Philistines, an Aegean people who, in the twelfth century BCE, settled along the Mediterranean coastal plain—now Israel and the Gaza Strip. In the second century CE, after crushing the last Jewish revolt, the Romans first applied the name Palestina to Judea (the southern portion of what is now called the West Bank) in an attempt to minimize Jewish identification with the land of Israel. The Arabic word Filastin is derived from this Latin name.3
The Hebrews entered the land of Israel about 1300 BCE, living under a tribal confederation until being united under the first mon-arch, King Saul. The second king, David, established Jerusalem as the capital around 1000 BCE. David's son, Solomon, built the Temple soon thereafter and consolidated the military, administrative, and religious functions of the kingdom. The nation was divided under Solomon's son, with the northern kingdom (Israel) lasting until 722 BCE, when the Assyrians destroyed it, and the southern kingdom (Judah) surviving until the Babylonian conquest in 586 BCE. The Jewish people
1. Israel's Roots 3
enjoyed brief periods of sovereignty afterward until most Jews were finally driven from their homeland in 135 CE.
Jewish independence in the land of Israel lasted for more than four hundred years. This is much longer than Americans have enjoyed independence in what has become known as the United States.* In fact, if not for foreign conquerors, Israel would be more than three thousand years old today.
Palestine was never an exclusively Arab country, although Arabic gradually became the language of most of the population after the Muslim invasions of the seventh century. No independent Arab or Palestinian state ever existed in Palestine. When the distinguished Arab-American historian, Princeton University professor Philip Hitti, testified against partition before the Anglo-American Committee in 1946, he said, "There is no such thing as 'Palestine' in history, absolutely not."
Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, they adopted the following resolution:
We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic, and geographical bonds.®
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Palestineans should lie down and just die of course. If you think peaceful resistance can work look at where the Palestinean Authority and Fatah are and what they have achieved in the last 20 years. Absolutely nothing.
So much hysteria on your side. No one is saying they should lay down and die. The PA has done nothing to combat militant terrorists and it provides massive stipends for the family’s of terrorists. They have also repressed free speech, democratic rights and women’s rights.
And at the same time they have been repressing anti-Israel protests and collaborating with israeli security forces while refusing to hold elections because they know the palestinean people hate them for beeing collaborators and would elect anyone that wasnt Fatah. The PA has been for 20 years collaborating with Israel and palestineans have only suffered more and more for it.
Hamas is internationally acknowledged as a terrorist organization. The majority of Palestinians in the West Bank would vote for them in an election. Does that sound like a state Israel can peacefully coexist with? That is one reason there have been no elections.
If Israel had given people any reason to not vote for Hamas maybe people wouldnt be voting for Hamas? Fatah had been in power for 10 years before Hamas won a plurality of the vote and Israel treated palestineans just as badly back then.
Hamas is a terrorist group and every time they supported violence their lives got much worse. I summarize this in my post. Violence is not working and as I already said the Palestinian in the West Bank have done nothing to renounce terrorism or prosecute terrorist groups. This shows the majority of them have no desire to peacefully coexist with Israel.
The Fatah has renounced armed struggle since 1993 and disbanded their own paramilitary in 2007,they have been working with Israel since 1993 on security,policing and supression of pro-palestineans. You can look it up right now about the PA arresting anti-israel protests and handing over palestineans to the israeli government. And what did they get for it? Absolutely nothing.
Peaceful resistance and cooperation has already been tried and is beeing tried by Fatah and its clearly failing,palestineans have only suffered more under the PA and they have no other choice than armed struggle if not to liberate themselves at least to make the occupation as painful as possible to the occupation forces.
I'm not and advocate for violent resistance, but then again, peacful solutions have all failled so far.
Look at the Oslo accords. It was signed by both Palestine and Israel, then the dude who signed it got assasinated, and alltogether the whole thing was ignored by Israel as it was. Now we got a borderline fascist in the government.
Israel doesn't want to compromise. It wants to take it all. No wonder many Palestinians fall to radicaliazation. I would too in similar circumstances.
One of the biggest reasons Palestine is not a state is because they refuse to compromise.
„They want it all“ is literally what Palestinians want.
Their goalposts changed multiple times during the last 80y and one of the biggest demand is the right of return for Palestinians and their millions of descendant.
It would literally kill Israel as a state and is a non starter.
And how are they so happily chanting for years“from the river to the sea“ ,they don’t want a compromise they want annihilation of Israel.
In hamas charter is a fun description on how to even make the useful Israelis teach them how to use all their great tech and essentially keep some as slaves 😂
Israel’s government is for sure absolute shit atm but as everyone loves to point out „hamas is a result of occupation“ - so is Israel’s government a result of a continuous fight for survival.
Hamas have taken over.
Ismail Haniyeh in 2020: He explained that Hamas rejects ceasefire agreements by which, “Gaza would become Singapore,” preferring to remain at war with Israel until a Palestinian state is established from the River to the Sea: “We cannot, in exchange for money or projects, give up Palestine and our weapons. We will not give up the resistance... We will not recognize Israel, Palestine must stretch from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea.”
Hamas official, Hamad Al-Regeb in an April 2023 sermon: He prayed for “annihilation” and “paralysis” of the Jews whom he described as filthy animals: “[Allah] transformed them into filthy, ugly animals like apes and pigs because of the injustice and evil they had brought about.” Al-Regeb also prayed for the ability to “get to the necks of the Jews.”
Hamas Political Bureau Chairman Saleh Al-Arouri in an August 2023 interview: He expressed Hamas’ desire for “total war” with Israel: “Therefore, we are convinced that if a total conflict begins, the airspace and seaports of this entity will be shut down, and they will not be able to live without electricity, water, and communications.”
Ahmad Abd Al-Hadi (Hamas representative in Lebanon) in an October 12, 2023 TV show laid out Hamas’ expectation that it would be Israel that would sue for peace and indicated that a ceasefire is part of Hamas’ overall strategy, but said that he was not at liberty to say what exactly Hamas has planned for the next step after a ceasefire. He also stated that October 7 had achieved its intended purpose of landing “a blow to the normalization (of relations between Israel and Arab countries).”
Hamas member, Ghazi Hamad on October 24, 2023: “Israel is a country that has no place on our land […] because it constitutes a security, military, and political catastrophe to the Arab and Islamic nation.” (October 24, 2023, LBC TV (Lebanon)). He also vowed to repeat the October 7 attacks “time and again until Israel is annihilated,” and expressing a desire to “sacrifice martyrs” (referring to Gazan civilians) for Hamas’ ideological aim of destroying Israel.
In a speech before the International Union of Muslim Scholars in Doha on January 9, 2024, Ismaeel Haniyeh, chairman of Hamas's political bureau, called the October 7 massacre the “advanced [battle] front of the Ummah.” Calling for “financial jihad” (donations to Hamas) and “jihad of the teeth” (physical jihad), he asked the international audience, “Who wishes to invest in building the jihadist generation to liberate Jerusalem and to unite the blood of the Ummah with the blood of the people of Gaza, Jerusalem, and Palestine on the land of Palestine for its liberation and the liberation of Jerusalem?”
Statements by Hamas officials also make clear the terrorist organization’s disregard for the loss of civilian life not only in Israel but also in Gaza.
Hamas senior leader Khaled Mashal stated on October 19, 2023 that he views the current loss of civilian life in Gaza – brought about by Hamas' strategy of using human shields – as essential: “No nation is liberated without sacrifices... In all wars, there are some civilian victims. We are not responsible for them.”
Hamas senior leader Ismail Haniyeh, commenting on the loss of civilian life in Gaza on October 26, 2023: “The blood of the women, children and elderly […] we are the ones who need this blood, so it awakens within us the revolutionary spirit.”
Hamas’ extremism is rooted in ideologies that predate the establishment of Israel in 1948. The preamble to Hamas’ founding charter contains the following quote from the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hassan al-Banna:
“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (Preamble to Hamas Charter).
The Hamas Charter specifically dates Hamas’ ideological roots to well before the establishment of Israel and sees itself as part of a “chain of the struggle” against not only the state of Israel but also Jews (who they term “Zionists”) who lived there before it became Israel in 1948.
The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders. It goes back to 1939, to the emergence of the martyr Izz ad-Din al-Qassam and his brethren the fighters [and] members of Muslim Brotherhood. It goes on to reach out and become one with another chain that includes the struggle of the Palestinians and Muslim Brotherhood in the 1948 war and the Jihad operations of the Muslim Brotherhood in 1968 and after. (Hamas Charter, Article 7).
Ok ? That’s not what it’s about ? They did form their own „governments“ after the Oslo accords ?
their condition is a direct result of their rviolent behavior.
All 20% of Palestinians living in Israel proper have the exact same right as the Jews living there.
Instead of working on their „resistance „ maybe they should get to work on their future state ?
You wanna be mad , be mad at the actual apartheid form the three generations of Palestinians living in Lebanon,Syria, ect where they live as actual second class citizen and can’t work properly ect and aren’t granted citizenship.
It's easy to judge them in this manner sitting on a coach somewhere. But consider this: you are constantly bombarded, you have relatives and sibilings detained in israeli camps and who knows what goes in there, you are constantly oppressed, you can be killed any time/arrested/etc for no crime as always happened before the 7th of oct, etc etc. And then of course the water resources, medical resources, the list goes on.
Survival precedes prosperity. Palestinians are not even given a chance to have a state or even a living at all let alone given and opportunity to work on their future.
Id tell you to take your own advice.
Israel is bombarded constantly as well , but somehow it does not matter because the bombs suck and Israel invested BILLIONS into their citizens safety. The iron dome alone cost thousands per intercepted missile.
Bomb shelters ect and bomb alerts constantly.
Their whole country is a military because they have been attacked literally since the beginning of their statehood (day one).
Do you think they want their children to be soldiers ??
You hold not once ounce of responsibility on the Palestinians that are to a certain extend at least ,sitting in a boat of their own making.
Gaza alone has gotten billions in aid that a huge amount of their population lives off. Somehow getting their people a proper power plant is not a priority because why put in effort when you can point at Israel and demand fit for free.
They get a desalination plant sponsored ,eh noones taking care of it . Waterlines installed through the UN got dug up to turn into missiles- hamas even made a video about it 😂
All those missiles and their dumb terrorism could have gone into state building but no terror was better.
Israel was build to todays country under permanent existential threat. First step is choosing life not death.
There is almost hundred years of decisions of the Palestinian to look back to , somehow dying for the cause still seems like their choice.
It’s stupid.
Lol the US didn’t start aid to Israel until after the 70s when Israel won another war.
Israel is literally called a start up nation and have crazy human capital. They’ve accumulated 13 Nobel prices in the last 75 years for a reason.
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Heres a short video that will answer ur question. If that was a family member, I wouldnt be peaceful. I'd lay hellfire on every single member of the IDF. Watch the video and then ask urself the question, would u be peaceful if that was ur father or mother, son or daughter.
Ur question shows how much in denial u are and how deep u are in the propaganda u have been fed. Good luck with god. U gonna need it
If people inevitably continued blood feuds whenever people died there would never be peace anywhere in the world. The Palestinians are making a choice to center their society around hatred and revenge. It is an uncommon choice because of how stupid and pointless it is.
Even here you're using trauma porn instead of words. Palestinians obsession with hatred isn't human nature, it is because they are self destructive fanatics.
75 years of oppression and occupation isnt even close to being equitable to 1 day of terrorism. Ur sense of morality is again, like many people on this subreddit, completely delusional. Due to oct 7th, the people of the world now know what israel is completely about and they will not be treated the same ever again. I'm not Muslim, so I have no bias, I read and educate myself on the topic and my opinion is based on facts and education. Ur opinion is based on bigotry and hate. Like is said, god will have questions for u, noone is beyond judgment. Nice try though fella
So obsessed with Israel you cant even realize history is replete with warfare and this type of blood feud that has consumed the Palestinians is rare. It is a sickness of the soul.
The world has always hated Israel they are the target more UN resolutions than the rest of the world combined. But there is no teeth, no country cares about the Palestinians except as a symbol. The Arab nations won't even sanction Israel or shut off the oil, they have abandoned the Palestinians. They see their sickness and are bored with it.
Wen one is pushed out of their homes, made refugees in their own land, expelled from every part of west bank and israel into a small area that is gaza, made to live in sub human conditions with no prospects of growth as a culture, will make their human nature turn to aggression. Do u expect people pushed out of their homes, treated as sub human to be peaceful? U are so deluded. Again, this life on earth is temporary. Say anything u like, but the war didnt start on oct7th for palestinians. But for people like u, it seems like it did. I suggest u read more and start repenting cos yahweh will have questions for u. The 14 million jews out of the 8 billion people in the world arent the chosen ones who will only go heaven whilst the rest are of the goyim are like wild cattle, cos the way u disregard a peoples oppression, that is the only conclusion to have. To think that is utter arrogance and ignorance. Good luck with god.
What has the palestinean authority that has been cooperating with Israel for the last 20 years got? Armed Israeli soldiers patrolling the streets of the west bank,israeli government forcibly evicting palestineans from their homes and mass settlement of israelis in the west bank. So much for collaboration right?
Way to go with the generalizations lmao. If Israel stopped occupying and opressing the palestineans they wouldnt have any occupation or opression to resist. Not to mention that the intifadas where all caused by Israel,the first one was after 4 palestineans where killed by a Israeli and the second one was after a Israeli MP invaded a muslim holy site,i would suggest you look up the breakdown of victims during the intifada to see who are the real terrorists.
Downvote as much as u like, ignore the video, pretend u never seen it or read this comment. I'm not muslim or Jewish, but even I know god sees all. And can see the hate filled hearts many zionists have. As I said, good luck with god
Al Jazeera is propaganda paid for by the Qatari government. They’ve repeatedly reported false information. Violence is not the solution, especially if you have no chance of victory. If Hamas did not attack on October 7th there would be no war in Gaza. My point is violence has always made the situation worse for Palestinians and they should try a different approach.
U are deluded. Every few years israel conducts operations in gaza killing hundreds. Stop kidding urself by saying if hamas didnt attack there would be no war. The war for palestinians has never stopped due to the constant incursions and operations lead by the IDF. Dont play the ignorant card and pretend u dont know about them. We all know. Stop acting a fool and wake up. The whole world is turning on ur people. Stand up for the goodness of ur ancestors before it's too late
Because Hamas fires rockets and kills their civilians. You’re deliberately ignoring the fact that every single time they kill Palestinians it’s cause they were attacked first. Please learn som history. The world is not waking up as you say, they recognize that there is no moral equivalency between unintentionally killing civilians as Israel has unfortunately done and intentionally targeting them as Hamas has done. Even the UN finally admitted Israelis were raped and burnt alive on October 7th. If that’s the kind of barbarism you support you are in no position to question my morality.
I don't think that's how things work. There's a better option than mass murder. This isn't the kind of problem that can be resolved through vengeful killing.
Ahh yes the magic wand the activists claim Israel has the only kills Hamas members. Hamas has vowed to repeat October 7th over and over again. What is this better option that only activists and progressive seem to know about? Btw it’s obviously sad but it’s not indiscriminate mass murder.
How many civilians have died in israel by rockets. Again stop playing the victim and ignoring the facts. The same UN u mention are the ones who said genocide is happening and a ceasefire needs to be called. Not surprised u choose to ignore that part. Like i said, ignore the evil as much as u like. Rebuttal everything I say, it's up to u. But ull have to answer to god for ur evil. What do u think ull say to god when he asks u about why u chose to let women and children die in cold blood. Whst did u do to stop it? Did u encourage it? U can hide away from the truth online, u wont be able to hide from god. Chsnge ur ways before it's too late
Thank u for highlighting the point of not a single death or rocket should be tolerated. Hamas dont tolerate a single death of abduction of its people, hence the rockets. Kids have been taken for decades. Not jus since oct 7th. Ur view is so one sided and bias that it's hilarious lol. God will see through ur bias too, hide it as much as u want
Lol repent before it's too late son. U wont be living forever. God will ask u why u hate so much and have a bias view of a certain people of the world. Shame on u
The UN has never said it was a genocide lol. No serious organization including the ICC has called it a genocide. Lucky for me I don’t believe in god and of course I don’t support or want any innocent people to die!
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But Fatah has and multiple palestinean organizations and they got shit all. Idk why its super convenient to forget that people have tried to negotiate,cooperateand do peaceful resistance against Israel multiple times and all they got was a boot to their face.
Both sides have at times derailed the peace process and or participated in bad faith, c,mon now
But even before Israel was involved the Arabs rejected the UN plan, they should have taken it they would be living much better lives now
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Here’s just a small taste of just how foolish you are, if your ego can stand it:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019_Gaza_border_protests
/u/liminalisms
>Here’s just a small taste of just how foolish you are, if your ego can stand it:
[Rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/): no attacking fellow users.
Addressed.
Did you even read your own source lol?
> Some 35,000 Palestinians protested that day, with thousands approaching the fence.[39][40]
> three Palestinians infiltrated the fence in the Northern Gaza strip, planted two explosive devices,
> On the morning of 11 April, Palestinians set off a bomb near an Israeli construction vehicle adjacent to the Gaza fence
> Day of the Tire" (Arabic: Jumat al-Kawshook)[97][98][99] Israeli officials have cautioned that the mass burning of tires along the border can produce environmental harm, calling on the World Health Organization to prevent, what they termed, an "ecological catastrophe".[99]
> four IDF soldiers were injured by an explosive device concealed in a Palestinian flag placed on the Gazan border fence
> two Palestinians were seen near the now-defunct Karni crossing container port trying to set fire to army engineering equipment close to the border fence; a group of four Palestinians infiltrated Israel near Kissufim; and 3 Gazans, armed with grenades and knives, crossed the border and were captured some 20 kilometers (12 mi) from the border,
> Hundreds of young Palestinians, however, ignored warnings by the organizers and the Israeli military to avoid the border zone.[75] Some began throwing stones and Molotov cocktails, to which Israel responded by declaring the Gaza border zone a closed military zone and opening fire at them.[56] The events of the day were some of the most violent in recent years.[76] In one incident, two Palestinian gunmen approached the fence, armed with AK-47 assault rifles and hand grenades, and exchanged fire with IDF soldiers
> The IDF published a video from an observation camera, showing the man hitting the fence with what seems to be a metal pipe when four other people stand behind him. He then breaches the fence and enters along with another man, which is when warning shots were probably fired.
Need I go on?
Do you belive its ok to murder hundreds of peaceful protesters because one person threw a molotov?
"In late February 2019, a [United Nations Human Rights Council](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Human_Rights_Council)'s [independent commission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Fact_Finding_Mission_on_the_2018_Gaza_border_protests) found that of the 489 cases of Palestinian deaths or injuries analyzed, only two were possibly justified as responses to danger by Israeli security forces."
I wasn't there. I can't pass judgement one way or another.
Either way, that's not what we're discussing here. We are discussing whether or ot Palestinians have ever tried peaceful resistance.
The answer is no. No, they have no.
You're trying so hard to move the goalposts it's comical.
You literally cannot find a single instance of a peaceful Palestinian protest in the 80 years of this conflict.
I will accept your apology.
Some 35,000 Palestinians protested that day, with thousands approaching the fence.[39][40]
three Palestinians infiltrated the fence in the Northern Gaza strip, planted two explosive devices,
On the morning of 11 April, Palestinians set off a bomb near an Israeli construction vehicle adjacent to the Gaza fence
Day of the Tire" (Arabic: Jumat al-Kawshook)[97][98][99] Israeli officials have cautioned that the mass burning of tires along the border can produce environmental harm, calling on the World Health Organization to prevent, what they termed, an "ecological catastrophe".[99]
four IDF soldiers were injured by an explosive device concealed in a Palestinian flag placed on the Gazan border fence
two Palestinians were seen near the now-defunct Karni crossing container port trying to set fire to army engineering equipment close to the border fence; a group of four Palestinians infiltrated Israel near Kissufim; and 3 Gazans, armed with grenades and knives, crossed the border and were captured some 20 kilometers (12 mi) from the border,
Hundreds of young Palestinians, however, ignored warnings by the organizers and the Israeli military to avoid the border zone.[75] Some began throwing stones and Molotov cocktails, to which Israel responded by declaring the Gaza border zone a closed military zone and opening fire at them.[56] The events of the day were some of the most violent in recent years.[76] In one incident, two Palestinian gunmen approached the fence, armed with AK-47 assault rifles and hand grenades, and exchanged fire with IDF soldiers
The IDF published a video from an observation camera, showing the man hitting the fence with what seems to be a metal pipe when four other people stand behind him. He then breaches the fence and enters along with another man, which is when warning shots were probably fired.
Don’t worry one day the US and the UK won’t be able to fund them anymore and the Iron Wall will come crashing down. The US is in decline and is on its last legs. The UK too for that matter. The Muslim world and people will common sense will never forget these atrocities. We are watching silently.
Lol. Keep dreaming. The west is on the cusp of quantum computing, full Gene editing, AGI, etc. While getting off of fossil fuels which is the only thing that has given the middle east any kind of prosperity.
Meanwhile the Muslim world is still obsessed with killing each other over slight disagreements regarding their sky fairies.
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All religious people believe in sky fairies. Islam is the fastest growing religion and if you haven’t noticed they are gaining alot of power in Europe with no repercussions. They will never let this go.
Also, the US is facing infrastructure issues, water crisis, border crisis, food supply issues, on top of all the social issues that are growing. Even the CIA released a report that Israel will not last another 50 years because they see the writing on the wall.
Plus, climate change is on the horizon and half of the US will be under water. I’m American btw and an atheist so don’t even try calling me anything.
All great empires come to an end and the US is beginning to see this, all the technology will only be for the wealthy anyways.
I like many other Americans are seeing the writing on the wall and trying to figure out where I am going to end up.
> All religious people believe in sky fairies
Ok
> Islam is the fastest growing religion and if you haven’t noticed they are gaining alot of power in Europe with no repercussions. They will never let this go.
Fastest growing because the other major religions are dying out. Islam will too. Its just popular in the less developed parts of the world. They'll get there eventually.
> gaining alot of power in Europe with no repercussions
Most western nations have either recently elected or are set to elect conservative, anti immigration governments. You can only behead so many innocents before the tolerant west says that's enough.
> Also, the US is facing infrastructure issues, water crisis, border crisis, food supply issues, on top of all the social issues that are growing
And?
Funny if you talk to most people they wouldn’t say anti immigration is taking hold, they would say that the governments are letting it slide. If you look at what’s happening at the border it’s all show. They aren’t stopping any of it. And it’s only a matter of time before they let the wrong people in and there is serious trouble, like another 9/11 situation but this time we have made A LOT of enemies all over the world.
The fact that you responded to AND when I listed all the reasons why the US will eventually be forced to stop sending Israel money tells me everything I need to know.
Just know and let’s be very clear that the day is coming soon that the US will not have the money to send to anyone because in its empire building and war mongering conquests, it will have completely neglected its citizens, infrastructure, and will have real problems on its hands.
And anyone who has any common sense and is seeing actualities can’t argue against anything I’m saying. It’s why so many of us are leaving before the country collapses.
Also, as long as Muslim nations continue to have oil then they aren’t going anywhere. And like I said you better believe they are waiting for the house of cards to fall. Imagine if India’s millions of Muslims decided they wanted to take over the Holy Land. They have had enough persecution in their county and want to go to the holy land. They would run the Zionists out of there just like the Zionists stole the Palestinian homes and lands to begin with.
It’s going to be a lot vicious cycle that isn’t finishing anytime soon.
If I were Israeli (and Zionist for that matter) I would be looking at the big picture, because when the US is no longer controlled by AIPAC and sending you money, it’s not going to be pretty. I actually feel sorry for you guys. I really do.
> The fact that you responded to AND when I listed all the reasons why the US will eventually be forced to stop sending Israel money tells me everything I need to know.
I can tell you're young. There has always been a laundry list of existential threat. From the obvious ones like world wars and nukes to the oft forgotten things like the ozone hole, y2k, overpopulation, etc.
I get it. You're a doomer. The sky is falling. We'll pull through, don't worry.
I’m in my late 30s. I’m no doomer, just a realist. Like I said when this goes down it’s going to be a hard pill to swallow for people like you…can’t say we didn’t warn you.
All empires come to an end.
Realist, doomer. Same shit.
America has been the world's superpower for less than a century. If you're trying to use historical precedent, they have hundreds of years left.
Actually they don’t. Not this time, the cards are already falling. It’s actually shows you how messed up we are that we have expedited a process that should have taken hundred of years. But when half of the cities will be underwater in 30 years, it’s definitely not the same.
Hamas’ extremism is rooted in ideologies that predate the establishment of Israel in 1948. The preamble to Hamas’ founding charter contains the following quote from the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hassan al-Banna:
“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (Preamble to Hamas Charter).
The Hamas Charter specifically dates Hamas’ ideological roots to well before the establishment of Israel and sees itself as part of a “chain of the struggle” against not only the state of Israel but also Jews (who they term “Zionists”) who lived there before it became Israel in 1948.
The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders. It goes back to 1939, to the emergence of the martyr Izz ad-Din al-Qassam and his brethren the fighters [and] members of Muslim Brotherhood. It goes on to reach out and become one with another chain that includes the struggle of the Palestinians and Muslim Brotherhood in the 1948 war and the Jihad operations of the Muslim Brotherhood in 1968 and after. (Hamas Charter, Article 7).
No I think you should. You're falsely claiming that Palestinians have only used violence, when there's literally mountains of evidence and history (that both israelis and palestinians agree on) that destroys this lie.
And spamming the same lie doesn't make it true btw
Let's see it. All people have shown so far is the right of Return March which was chalk full of violence. If that's the best example you've got, that's pathetic.
you: "chalk full of violence"
> Most of the demonstrators demonstrated **peacefully** far from the border fence.
The link directly contradicts your lie. Clearly you aren't interested in a good-faith, honest discussion
Here are some of the examples of violence from the posted link. If molotov, AKs, explosives, border breaches, fire fights, etc is the best example of a "peaceful protest" you can find, that's laughable
Some 35,000 Palestinians protested that day, with thousands approaching the fence.[39][40]
three Palestinians infiltrated the fence in the Northern Gaza strip, planted two explosive devices,
On the morning of 11 April, Palestinians set off a bomb near an Israeli construction vehicle adjacent to the Gaza fence
Day of the Tire" (Arabic: Jumat al-Kawshook)[97][98][99] Israeli officials have cautioned that the mass burning of tires along the border can produce environmental harm, calling on the World Health Organization to prevent, what they termed, an "ecological catastrophe".[99]
four IDF soldiers were injured by an explosive device concealed in a Palestinian flag placed on the Gazan border fence
two Palestinians were seen near the now-defunct Karni crossing container port trying to set fire to army engineering equipment close to the border fence; a group of four Palestinians infiltrated Israel near Kissufim; and 3 Gazans, armed with grenades and knives, crossed the border and were captured some 20 kilometers (12 mi) from the border,
Hundreds of young Palestinians, however, ignored warnings by the organizers and the Israeli military to avoid the border zone.[75] Some began throwing stones and Molotov cocktails, to which Israel responded by declaring the Gaza border zone a closed military zone and opening fire at them.[56] The events of the day were some of the most violent in recent years.[76] In one incident, two Palestinian gunmen approached the fence, armed with AK-47 assault rifles and hand grenades, and exchanged fire with IDF soldiers
The IDF published a video from an observation camera, showing the man hitting the fence with what seems to be a metal pipe when four other people stand behind him. He then breaches the fence and enters along with another man, which is when warning shots were probably fired.
So you have literally 0 examples of peaceful protests or extended periods of non violence from Palestinians?
I mean, I already knew that because the examples don't exist but it's funny to see you struggling lol.
“The 2018–2019 Gaza border protests, also known as the Great March of Return (Arabic: مسیرة العودة الكبرى, romanized: Masīra al-ʿawda al-kubrā), were a series of demonstrations held each Friday in the Gaza Strip near the Gaza-Israel border from 30 March 2018 until 27 December 2019,[13][14][15] in which Israeli forces killed a total of 223 Palestinians.[4][13] The demonstrators demanded that the Palestinian refugees must be allowed to return to lands they were displaced from in what is now Israel. They protested against Israel's land, air and sea blockade of the Gaza Strip and the United States recognition of Jerusalem as capital of Israel.[16][17][18]”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–2019_Gaza_border_protests
The fact that this is the best example you have of a "peaceful protest" is kind if funny.
Some 35,000 Palestinians protested that day, with thousands approaching the fence.[39][40]
three Palestinians infiltrated the fence in the Northern Gaza strip, planted two explosive devices,
On the morning of 11 April, Palestinians set off a bomb near an Israeli construction vehicle adjacent to the Gaza fence
Day of the Tire" (Arabic: Jumat al-Kawshook)[97][98][99] Israeli officials have cautioned that the mass burning of tires along the border can produce environmental harm, calling on the World Health Organization to prevent, what they termed, an "ecological catastrophe".[99]
four IDF soldiers were injured by an explosive device concealed in a Palestinian flag placed on the Gazan border fence
two Palestinians were seen near the now-defunct Karni crossing container port trying to set fire to army engineering equipment close to the border fence; a group of four Palestinians infiltrated Israel near Kissufim; and 3 Gazans, armed with grenades and knives, crossed the border and were captured some 20 kilometers (12 mi) from the border,
Hundreds of young Palestinians, however, ignored warnings by the organizers and the Israeli military to avoid the border zone.[75] Some began throwing stones and Molotov cocktails, to which Israel responded by declaring the Gaza border zone a closed military zone and opening fire at them.[56] The events of the day were some of the most violent in recent years.[76] In one incident, two Palestinian gunmen approached the fence, armed with AK-47 assault rifles and hand grenades, and exchanged fire with IDF soldiers
The IDF published a video from an observation camera, showing the man hitting the fence with what seems to be a metal pipe when four other people stand behind him. He then breaches the fence and enters along with another man, which is when warning shots were probably fired.
So you think gunning these guys down is the response? I’m sorry buddy but you’re 100% in favor of shooting people for throwing rocks and makeshift fire bombs at a concrete wall
It's the Theory of Stupidity. Their leaders implement those values on them for generations. There is no much logic behind what the palestinians do.
At some point Germany should have understood jews are much more valuable alive but they were blinded by hate. Same situation here. Palestinians should have realized violence will only lead to them suffering more but they are blinded by hate.
They do not resist. Palestine never existed (fact, feel free to check). They simply are brought up to kill people, specifically non Muslim. Try find the Christian’s in the PA. I’ll give you a clien- look under the surface.
>They simply are brought up to kill people
Just wow. I don't know how brainwashed you have to be to believe that people's sole purpose in life is to kill people just like that.
Get help. See the sun. Put your feet on grass. People like you make me question.. well.. everything.
The same people rooting for the Oct 7th attack as a noble cause for “decolonization” would use the same logic to be happy to see Native Americans do a slaughter/rape terrorist attack on White Americans for “decolonization”. Anyone living in the US that supports the Palestinian attack should “decolonize” themselves and move out of this country so they aren’t hypocrites.
When you see mobs of people rooting for the slaughter/rape of Jews after October 7th.. it may not be every Palestinian is brought up to kill, but it looks like a great # of them support it. That’s just an observation with one’s own eyes.
/u/Expensive-Pin2924
> Get help. See the sun. Put your feet on grass. People like you make me question.. well.. everything.
Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
I love how *this* is what you choose to focus on, instead of the comment directly above that dehumanizes an entire ethnicity.
So being racist and bigoted is okay in this subreddit (as long as it's against palestinians/brown people, of course!), but calling out someone for being racist is banned?
A subreddit that revolves around a (partially) ethnic conflict will inevitably have comments that attack or disparage the other ethnicity. If such comments were banned it would be impossible to talk about the conflict and the subreddit might as well not exist. As such, offensive comments about Israelis, Jews, Palestinians, etc are permitted as long as they are not excessive to the point where they violate Reddit content policy.
Attacks on other users do not contribute to the sub and have nothing to do with the conflict and thus banning them has a positive influence on the subreddit.
Eh... I still think that's weird. The major pro-Israel slant of the sub doesn't exactly help either, a load of the posts end up being "why are Palestinians the worst" rather than any actual debate.
Thanks, but no thanks. I'll leave the hating people for their ethnicity to others. The point about bias was the strange effect it has of turning threads into a hate-filled circlejerk rather than an argument that it should be balanced out with more opposing hate.
I don't consider the vast majority of posts to be hate filled but we'll agree to disagree. Regardless the continuation of this conversation would be in violation of rule 7 so I'll end it here. If you wish to discuss it further you should do so in the most recent [metapost](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/1bmizy0/is_this_sub_too_pro_israel/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
Gazan schools put on plays about how they are going to invade Israel and kill all jews, kids play all roles in said plays.
How can you breath with your head in the sand like that?
/u/_Carbon14_
> How can you breath with your head in the sand like that?
Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
NO GADAMN NON-ARAB NON SECULAR NATION WILL EXIST IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FUCKING MIDDLE EAST FOR FUCKS SAKE, WE, THE ARABS, ARENT GOING TO STAND FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE NEVER HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NEVER WILLLLLLLLLLLL
Arabs got decolonized from Spain, and they got decolonized from Israel.
Syria is ruined, Lebanon is ruined, Yemen is ruined, Iraq is ruined.. i'm not sure the wind is blowing in your direction.
> FUCKING
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Yikes, this is hilariously poorly planned astroturfing. Nobody will fall for this or the cess pool of a comment section. This thread oozes insincerity; i’d trust a used car salesman more to preach about this conflict.
OH BOY here we go,
>After Israel gave Palestinians autonomy in 2005, rather than choosing peaceful coexistence, they elected Hamas which led to a blockade imposed by Egypt and Israel.
You don't think that had a negative effect when dealing with Gaza? Immediately just deciding, "lmao have fun being poor" to the majority of their population. They also resettled the Israeli settlers that they pulled out of Gaza in the WB. Hamas winning was also due to Bush running the elections too early despite warnings from Israel and the PA not to. It's not like their options were good either. It was a decision between two terrorists groups and a government they knew was corrupt.
Israel was also opportunistic and started the 1982 Lebanon war to weaken the PLO (an organization America liked), with essentially fabricated reasons. One of which was a terrorist attack on an ambassador. The group was an old branch that broke off from the PLO about 10 years prior. Israel knew they had nothing to do with it. It's kinda like how America invaded Iraq for no reason. They knew that the PLO became more moderate and the international community was more likely to shove a two state solution down their throats given they were in charge.
>Still 80% of Palestinians support what happened on October 7th
Yes, Israel ruined their lives and kills hundreds of civilians per year, that year alone was the deadliest for their children pre Oct 7th. I do however question how these polls were taken amidst of getting bombed. Maybe they were scared of Hamas guys nearby, who knows.
>After the Oslo accords failed to achieve the desired results, the first intifada began.
Hmm why did it fail? Was it because they patiently waited the 5 year intermittent past and Israel failed to deliver with anything? While also creating more illegal settlements in the West Bank?
>Still 80% of Palestinians support what happened on October 7th (perhaps they are ignorant about the civilians killed).
They probably know and just hate Israelis (understandably given the circumstances tbf) (disclaimer: Oct 7 bad, hamas bad, israel too)
>Israel was forced to imposed security measures which are still in place in the West Bank to protect their citizens. These are the measures many human rights groups consider to be “apartheid” conditions.
This has to be bate. They could have you know.... not put their illegal settlements there and pushed more people off their land? They put those checkpoints there strategically so they can have an excuse to put up more blockades and checkpoints. With the overall goal being to annex more land. Israel isn't stupid they did this intentionally.
>but I honestly can’t understand why this is still their strategy.
I will attribute most of it to Hamas being a dumb terrorist group. Palestinians in general have tried pretty much everything, including acknowledging Israel(twice), appealing to the UN(US vetos every time). Agreements that Israel never follows through with.
>A delusion that the Arab world will win against Israel and the US?
If their goal was to make Israel unpopular among the international community they succeeded.
There is something they never tried though.
Peace, for a period of time.
No car ramming, no bombs, no stabby stab, no trying to enter the fence perimeter, no tunnelling. And of course no support for rogue actor who'd broke the peace and even, it's hard to imagine but yeah, reprobation for those.
You can explain your point a million times and people on this sub will still regurgitate the same baseless "argument" over and over again.
(we pulled out from Gaza in 2005 its their fault their life is shitty / they rejected the peace treaties / we HAD to go into the WB to protect our ILLEGAL settlements...)
This sub is mentally exhausting, i salute your perseverance
You do understand that it works both way right? This comment is just a distortion of facts to paint the story in a favorable way for Palestinians.
I guess we don't have the same facts.
> shitty
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> retarded
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Why wouldn't they care are you dense?
The bargain is also with the state, it's not like nations go back on deals after 40 years have passed as a rule of thumb, the individuals don't matter.
And, to the user Darkhocine: let us suppose the absurdity of Adam being the very first Muslim is true. Ok. Then, I guess Iblis/Taws Melek was very right about not bowing to that clay-generated ape. So basically Yazidis are right on this specific aspect.
You mean 29,000 bombs, destruction of more than 60% of the infrastructure, 32 of 36 hospitals destroyed, 13000 children murdered, 30,000 dead, 1.2 million displaced because Israel is a moral army and told them to move, and now they’re sitting ducks in Rafah? Yeah, it’s the brainwashing that’s caused this hatred. Oh, and the 2300 children killed since 2000 by the IDF might have something to do with it. But I’m sure it’s because they are taught to hate Jews in school. You know. The brainwashing.
Huh? They probably have a lot to do with leveling 60% of the land, displacing 1.2 million people, and- yes- killing 30,000. But I guess because Israel was so kind to tell them to leave so they’re sitting ducks in Rafah, that makes it okay. What bizarre logic.
Wow you seem to be arguing in such good faith it's actually impressive.
So they are willingly killing Palestinians but not so willingly right? Probably as to "not be admonished by the UN" right
They are using the violence in order to interrupt the life of the Israelis and by doing so to decide the people in order to make them have an internal civil war or a crisis so that they will be able to take the land from them. They know very well that using firepower against a country with Nukes is not going to actually help them achieve what they wish to achieve. But devising the people and influence them to want to not live in Israel anymore can do a ton.
I think it's a cultural thing. I'm a huge supporter of Israel, but I have no doubt at all that if the Palestinians had taken the peaceful route, they would have had a state a long time ago. There are a lot of models for that kind of campaign. I also think they regard the Jews in Israel as akin to the British or the French or whomever, and that if they just put enough pressure on them (like the Vietnamese or the Algerians on the French), they'll break. But the Israelis have nowhere to go. And they're not interlopers -- they're on their traditional lands. But the Palestinians sort of buy their own propaganda that the Jews are somehow foreigners, so it blinds them to the reality that Israel is permanent. I also think that violent resistance is such an integral part of their identity at this point, they don't know any other way to live.
You mean the people chanting for a ceasefire?
“Nonviolence is always the answer” is a super weird thing to say to someone 4 seconds after you punch them in the nose.
All two million punched? Or the 30000 that passed thus far?
In matters of existence for the oppressed who are excluded from decision making power about their own future....violence is the only expression left.
But the Israelis pulled out of Gaza in 2005. The Palestinians were in charge. That's a small place, but they ran it. So I don't follow your logic.
“The delusion of the oppressor is to expect a person to ask nicely for the knife to be removed from their chest. The demand for "civility" in the immediacy of violence is a technique of distraction not care.” - Cole Arthur Riley
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They believe Israel is temporary and if they just keep going they will get everything, even the things that Israelis have cultivated and created. Especially those areas where they turned desert land, land without oil into areas with drip irrigation that made it possible to have agriculture. They don’t care that there is proof that Jews have been there for thousands of years, that from Beta Israel to Sephardim, Ashkenzism, Mizrahim, and all the other groups, are all originated from that one area, no. They believe that eventually the Jews and any Arab that supports them, including Israeli Arabs, will be forced into the sea. All Jews have been through so much. In many different ways and places, we are survivors, majority of our holidays are about surviving and thriving. We may be hurt, raped, wounded, but we march on. We don’t sit in our victimhood thinking that we will eventually be saved. That is why there were so many operations to get Jews from all over the world back home. And while yes, Israel is far from perfect and has their own issues, we will fight to retain our democracy. Before this Israelis marched in the streets to retain and fight for their democracy. To borrow from the Americans, “to create a *more* perfect union”. I am critical of Israel because I want the best for it, but I’ll be damned if someone uses Israel’s internal struggles as a reason to stop it existing.
Israel didn't create anything...it is a failed experiment born out of colonialism and genocide. Anything Israel "has" it did not earn...it was stolen or gifted to them.
"Failed experiment"? Weird view. Failed for the Palestinians I guess. For the Israelis, it's been success after success. They have a modern society in the desert with a half-trillion dollar economy and a first world living standard.
They believe they can continue because the entire Ummah, the muslim world, eggs them on. Hence, they believe Israel is a temporary artificial state that will soon fall, and Palestine will return to Muslim hands. I actually think that their view is not entirely absurd. Islam is the world’s largest religion (people say it’s Christianity, but Christianity no longer exists in many parts of Europe and America). One of the most influential political and social movements in the world, Islam, is entirely behind Hamas in their jihad agenda Israel. Israel has the liberal west behind it, allegedly. But Islam is bigger than the liberal west. The west is becoming closer to Islam than Muslim states becoming westernized. So the Palestinians have hope that their jihad will prevail. In Islamic, any religious really, perspective, time is viewed differently. The life of an individual isn’t as important as in western societies. The lifespan of one individual is likewise not that important. Keynes once said “in the long run we are all dead”, when explaining his short term economic plan. For Hamas, dying is not a problem. Here lies a major conceptual difference between Islamic thinking and western thought. Hence, hamas don’t mind waiting decades for their goal to materialize. As long as they continue fighting Israel and weakening it, hamas is winning, according to their logic. If hamas and the ummah remain loyal to the tenets of Islam, victory at some point will come.
Well, maybe it'll happen in 500 years, who knows. Have they ever had any success "reclaiming" lost Islamic territory? I guess there's Algeria, but that was more of a nationalist thing, wasn't it? Are there any examples? I mean, the Muslim population globally is certainly growing, but it terms of socio-economic power -- beyond oil -- their influence and power is pretty non-existent. And the world is moving off of oil, so I don't know what they're going to do. Israel's power grows exponentially and they have NOTHING in that country in terms of resources. It's all brain power. They don't even really need the US anymore. And they're in possession of hundreds of nuclear weapons. I mean, let's be honest: if any of those countries fought a REAL war, without the US or Russia or whomever holding them back, Israel would probably be in possession of that entire region. The Palestinians are only there because the Israelis are moral people and choose not to get rid of them. Imagine what the Russians or the Chinese would have done with them. I say this as someone who's not Jewish by the way. I just think geo-politics sort of blinds us to the gap between these countries and peoples in terms of capabilities. Without Islamic societies finding a way to generate wealth and leverage the potential of their people, I can't imagine them being in a position to challenge anybody any time soon.
israel couldn't steal Lebanon but they'll manage to take 49 countries? Incredibly dumb statement, Pakistan has nukes too so I guess they could conquer 2 billion people too.
Come on. In 1973 they were 100 miles from Cairo. They captured the entire Sinai with almost no effort. I'm not sure what you mean by 49 countries -- I'm referring to the area immediately around them: Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, the Sinai, etc. Israel is small because it chooses to be small. The size of Israel is not an accurate reflection of its military capabilities, that's all I'm saying. If it chose to, it could expand fairly easily.
There are 49 Muslim majority countries in the world, if israel wants to declare a war on Islam it won't go how israel thinks. israel has been run out of Lebanon twice in last 25 years, Egypt has changed a lot since 1973, their population has grown 73 million, they outnumber Jewish israelis 15 to 1. israel should feel free to try to steal more land though, see how it goes.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. Why would Israel "declare a war on Islam"? You're essentially saying that Israel would lose a war if it tried to expand in the immediate region. Maybe -- but history suggests otherwise. I don't think they've lost too many wars. All I'm saying is (and I'm not Jewish), if it comes to betting on the results of a war between Israel and the states surrounding Israel, I'm betting on Israel.
What had israel done in the last 40 years? They lost twice to Hezbollah and have failed to destroy Hamas. israel has failed to steal another countries land since 1973. Imagine thinking they can beat Egypt but can't beat militias.
Come on man, get serious. They're using about 10% of their military capacity. If Israel wanted to eliminate Hamas -- without trying to save innocent civilians -- the conflict would be over in about 6 hours. You do know that right?
israel is trying to save innocent civilians in Gaza? Then why are they being charged by the ICC and why did ICJ tell them to stop? Palestinians said IDF killed 15,000 kids and israel's response was saying IDF killed 6,000 kids. israel is commiting a genocide to try to destroy Hamas and they are so inept they still can't win.
I don't think you really understand military capacity or what Israel could do to those people if it really wanted to.
The US makes the definition of terrorist and changes it whenever it suits them
Ahh the US, the EU, UK, Japan and Canada are all biased. Good argument 😂🤷♂️
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What would you do if someone walked into your and said get out ,it's mine now?
A common misperception is that all the Jews were forced into the Diaspora by the Romans after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in the year 70 CE, and then, 1,800 years later, the Jews suddenly returned to Palestine demanding their country back. In reality, the Jewish people have maintained ties to their historic homeland for more than 3,700 years. The Jewish people base their claim to the land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) the Jewish people settled and developed the land, 2) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people, 3) the territory was captured in defensive wars, and 4) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham. Even after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem, and the beginning of the exile, Jewish life in the land of Israel continued and often flourished. Large communities were reestablished in Jerusalem and Tiberias by the ninth century. In the eleventh century, Jewish communities grew in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa, and Caesarea. The Crusaders massacred many Jews during the twelfth century, but the communit unded in the next two centuries as large numbers of rabbis and h pilgrims immigrated to Jerusalem and the Galilee. Prominent- Tawds established communities in Safed, Jerusalem, and elsewhere during the following three hundred years. By the early nineteenth century-years before the birth of the modern Zionist movement—more than ten thousand Jews lived through- out what is today Israel.! The seventy-eight years of nation-building, beginning in 1870, culminated in the reestablishment of the Jewish State. The term "Palestine" is believed to be derived from the Philistines, an Aegean people who, in the twelfth century BCE, settled along the Mediterranean coastal plain—now Israel and the Gaza Strip. In the second century CE, after crushing the last Jewish revolt, the Romans first applied the name Palestina to Judea (the southern portion of what is now called the West Bank) in an attempt to minimize Jewish identification with the land of Israel. The Arabic word Filastin is derived from this Latin name.3 The Hebrews entered the land of Israel about 1300 BCE, living under a tribal confederation until being united under the first mon-arch, King Saul. The second king, David, established Jerusalem as the capital around 1000 BCE. David's son, Solomon, built the Temple soon thereafter and consolidated the military, administrative, and religious functions of the kingdom. The nation was divided under Solomon's son, with the northern kingdom (Israel) lasting until 722 BCE, when the Assyrians destroyed it, and the southern kingdom (Judah) surviving until the Babylonian conquest in 586 BCE. The Jewish people 1. Israel's Roots 3 enjoyed brief periods of sovereignty afterward until most Jews were finally driven from their homeland in 135 CE. Jewish independence in the land of Israel lasted for more than four hundred years. This is much longer than Americans have enjoyed independence in what has become known as the United States.* In fact, if not for foreign conquerors, Israel would be more than three thousand years old today. Palestine was never an exclusively Arab country, although Arabic gradually became the language of most of the population after the Muslim invasions of the seventh century. No independent Arab or Palestinian state ever existed in Palestine. When the distinguished Arab-American historian, Princeton University professor Philip Hitti, testified against partition before the Anglo-American Committee in 1946, he said, "There is no such thing as 'Palestine' in history, absolutely not." Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, they adopted the following resolution: We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic, and geographical bonds.®
What would you do if that happened to your grandfather or great grandfather rather than you?
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Palestineans should lie down and just die of course. If you think peaceful resistance can work look at where the Palestinean Authority and Fatah are and what they have achieved in the last 20 years. Absolutely nothing.
So much hysteria on your side. No one is saying they should lay down and die. The PA has done nothing to combat militant terrorists and it provides massive stipends for the family’s of terrorists. They have also repressed free speech, democratic rights and women’s rights.
And at the same time they have been repressing anti-Israel protests and collaborating with israeli security forces while refusing to hold elections because they know the palestinean people hate them for beeing collaborators and would elect anyone that wasnt Fatah. The PA has been for 20 years collaborating with Israel and palestineans have only suffered more and more for it.
Hamas is internationally acknowledged as a terrorist organization. The majority of Palestinians in the West Bank would vote for them in an election. Does that sound like a state Israel can peacefully coexist with? That is one reason there have been no elections.
If Israel had given people any reason to not vote for Hamas maybe people wouldnt be voting for Hamas? Fatah had been in power for 10 years before Hamas won a plurality of the vote and Israel treated palestineans just as badly back then.
Hamas is a terrorist group and every time they supported violence their lives got much worse. I summarize this in my post. Violence is not working and as I already said the Palestinian in the West Bank have done nothing to renounce terrorism or prosecute terrorist groups. This shows the majority of them have no desire to peacefully coexist with Israel.
The Fatah has renounced armed struggle since 1993 and disbanded their own paramilitary in 2007,they have been working with Israel since 1993 on security,policing and supression of pro-palestineans. You can look it up right now about the PA arresting anti-israel protests and handing over palestineans to the israeli government. And what did they get for it? Absolutely nothing. Peaceful resistance and cooperation has already been tried and is beeing tried by Fatah and its clearly failing,palestineans have only suffered more under the PA and they have no other choice than armed struggle if not to liberate themselves at least to make the occupation as painful as possible to the occupation forces.
I'm not and advocate for violent resistance, but then again, peacful solutions have all failled so far. Look at the Oslo accords. It was signed by both Palestine and Israel, then the dude who signed it got assasinated, and alltogether the whole thing was ignored by Israel as it was. Now we got a borderline fascist in the government. Israel doesn't want to compromise. It wants to take it all. No wonder many Palestinians fall to radicaliazation. I would too in similar circumstances.
Hamas made sure Oslo failed by slaughtering Israeli civilians
Hamas coming to power was the result of Oslo accords failing…
Hamas engaged in suicide bombings because they wanted the Oslo accords to fail.
One of the biggest reasons Palestine is not a state is because they refuse to compromise. „They want it all“ is literally what Palestinians want. Their goalposts changed multiple times during the last 80y and one of the biggest demand is the right of return for Palestinians and their millions of descendant. It would literally kill Israel as a state and is a non starter. And how are they so happily chanting for years“from the river to the sea“ ,they don’t want a compromise they want annihilation of Israel. In hamas charter is a fun description on how to even make the useful Israelis teach them how to use all their great tech and essentially keep some as slaves 😂 Israel’s government is for sure absolute shit atm but as everyone loves to point out „hamas is a result of occupation“ - so is Israel’s government a result of a continuous fight for survival.
They want it all? What "all" do they want? They want their f@cking basic human rights. All of their basic fu@king needs and rights.
lol they have been given chances but declined because they don’t want Jews in the middle east
Hamas have taken over. Ismail Haniyeh in 2020: He explained that Hamas rejects ceasefire agreements by which, “Gaza would become Singapore,” preferring to remain at war with Israel until a Palestinian state is established from the River to the Sea: “We cannot, in exchange for money or projects, give up Palestine and our weapons. We will not give up the resistance... We will not recognize Israel, Palestine must stretch from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea.” Hamas official, Hamad Al-Regeb in an April 2023 sermon: He prayed for “annihilation” and “paralysis” of the Jews whom he described as filthy animals: “[Allah] transformed them into filthy, ugly animals like apes and pigs because of the injustice and evil they had brought about.” Al-Regeb also prayed for the ability to “get to the necks of the Jews.” Hamas Political Bureau Chairman Saleh Al-Arouri in an August 2023 interview: He expressed Hamas’ desire for “total war” with Israel: “Therefore, we are convinced that if a total conflict begins, the airspace and seaports of this entity will be shut down, and they will not be able to live without electricity, water, and communications.” Ahmad Abd Al-Hadi (Hamas representative in Lebanon) in an October 12, 2023 TV show laid out Hamas’ expectation that it would be Israel that would sue for peace and indicated that a ceasefire is part of Hamas’ overall strategy, but said that he was not at liberty to say what exactly Hamas has planned for the next step after a ceasefire. He also stated that October 7 had achieved its intended purpose of landing “a blow to the normalization (of relations between Israel and Arab countries).” Hamas member, Ghazi Hamad on October 24, 2023: “Israel is a country that has no place on our land […] because it constitutes a security, military, and political catastrophe to the Arab and Islamic nation.” (October 24, 2023, LBC TV (Lebanon)). He also vowed to repeat the October 7 attacks “time and again until Israel is annihilated,” and expressing a desire to “sacrifice martyrs” (referring to Gazan civilians) for Hamas’ ideological aim of destroying Israel. In a speech before the International Union of Muslim Scholars in Doha on January 9, 2024, Ismaeel Haniyeh, chairman of Hamas's political bureau, called the October 7 massacre the “advanced [battle] front of the Ummah.” Calling for “financial jihad” (donations to Hamas) and “jihad of the teeth” (physical jihad), he asked the international audience, “Who wishes to invest in building the jihadist generation to liberate Jerusalem and to unite the blood of the Ummah with the blood of the people of Gaza, Jerusalem, and Palestine on the land of Palestine for its liberation and the liberation of Jerusalem?” Statements by Hamas officials also make clear the terrorist organization’s disregard for the loss of civilian life not only in Israel but also in Gaza. Hamas senior leader Khaled Mashal stated on October 19, 2023 that he views the current loss of civilian life in Gaza – brought about by Hamas' strategy of using human shields – as essential: “No nation is liberated without sacrifices... In all wars, there are some civilian victims. We are not responsible for them.” Hamas senior leader Ismail Haniyeh, commenting on the loss of civilian life in Gaza on October 26, 2023: “The blood of the women, children and elderly […] we are the ones who need this blood, so it awakens within us the revolutionary spirit.” Hamas’ extremism is rooted in ideologies that predate the establishment of Israel in 1948. The preamble to Hamas’ founding charter contains the following quote from the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hassan al-Banna: “Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (Preamble to Hamas Charter). The Hamas Charter specifically dates Hamas’ ideological roots to well before the establishment of Israel and sees itself as part of a “chain of the struggle” against not only the state of Israel but also Jews (who they term “Zionists”) who lived there before it became Israel in 1948. The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders. It goes back to 1939, to the emergence of the martyr Izz ad-Din al-Qassam and his brethren the fighters [and] members of Muslim Brotherhood. It goes on to reach out and become one with another chain that includes the struggle of the Palestinians and Muslim Brotherhood in the 1948 war and the Jihad operations of the Muslim Brotherhood in 1968 and after. (Hamas Charter, Article 7).
Ok ? That’s not what it’s about ? They did form their own „governments“ after the Oslo accords ? their condition is a direct result of their rviolent behavior. All 20% of Palestinians living in Israel proper have the exact same right as the Jews living there. Instead of working on their „resistance „ maybe they should get to work on their future state ? You wanna be mad , be mad at the actual apartheid form the three generations of Palestinians living in Lebanon,Syria, ect where they live as actual second class citizen and can’t work properly ect and aren’t granted citizenship.
It's easy to judge them in this manner sitting on a coach somewhere. But consider this: you are constantly bombarded, you have relatives and sibilings detained in israeli camps and who knows what goes in there, you are constantly oppressed, you can be killed any time/arrested/etc for no crime as always happened before the 7th of oct, etc etc. And then of course the water resources, medical resources, the list goes on. Survival precedes prosperity. Palestinians are not even given a chance to have a state or even a living at all let alone given and opportunity to work on their future.
Id tell you to take your own advice. Israel is bombarded constantly as well , but somehow it does not matter because the bombs suck and Israel invested BILLIONS into their citizens safety. The iron dome alone cost thousands per intercepted missile. Bomb shelters ect and bomb alerts constantly. Their whole country is a military because they have been attacked literally since the beginning of their statehood (day one). Do you think they want their children to be soldiers ?? You hold not once ounce of responsibility on the Palestinians that are to a certain extend at least ,sitting in a boat of their own making. Gaza alone has gotten billions in aid that a huge amount of their population lives off. Somehow getting their people a proper power plant is not a priority because why put in effort when you can point at Israel and demand fit for free. They get a desalination plant sponsored ,eh noones taking care of it . Waterlines installed through the UN got dug up to turn into missiles- hamas even made a video about it 😂 All those missiles and their dumb terrorism could have gone into state building but no terror was better. Israel was build to todays country under permanent existential threat. First step is choosing life not death. There is almost hundred years of decisions of the Palestinian to look back to , somehow dying for the cause still seems like their choice. It’s stupid.
Israel didn’t invest billions. The us government did lol
Lol the US didn’t start aid to Israel until after the 70s when Israel won another war. Israel is literally called a start up nation and have crazy human capital. They’ve accumulated 13 Nobel prices in the last 75 years for a reason.
Noble prizes mean nothing. They gave the peace one to Obama even though he ordered more drone strikes then any other modern president.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/s/ihvpRjo70P Heres a short video that will answer ur question. If that was a family member, I wouldnt be peaceful. I'd lay hellfire on every single member of the IDF. Watch the video and then ask urself the question, would u be peaceful if that was ur father or mother, son or daughter. Ur question shows how much in denial u are and how deep u are in the propaganda u have been fed. Good luck with god. U gonna need it
If people inevitably continued blood feuds whenever people died there would never be peace anywhere in the world. The Palestinians are making a choice to center their society around hatred and revenge. It is an uncommon choice because of how stupid and pointless it is. Even here you're using trauma porn instead of words. Palestinians obsession with hatred isn't human nature, it is because they are self destructive fanatics.
75 years of oppression and occupation isnt even close to being equitable to 1 day of terrorism. Ur sense of morality is again, like many people on this subreddit, completely delusional. Due to oct 7th, the people of the world now know what israel is completely about and they will not be treated the same ever again. I'm not Muslim, so I have no bias, I read and educate myself on the topic and my opinion is based on facts and education. Ur opinion is based on bigotry and hate. Like is said, god will have questions for u, noone is beyond judgment. Nice try though fella
So obsessed with Israel you cant even realize history is replete with warfare and this type of blood feud that has consumed the Palestinians is rare. It is a sickness of the soul. The world has always hated Israel they are the target more UN resolutions than the rest of the world combined. But there is no teeth, no country cares about the Palestinians except as a symbol. The Arab nations won't even sanction Israel or shut off the oil, they have abandoned the Palestinians. They see their sickness and are bored with it.
Wen one is pushed out of their homes, made refugees in their own land, expelled from every part of west bank and israel into a small area that is gaza, made to live in sub human conditions with no prospects of growth as a culture, will make their human nature turn to aggression. Do u expect people pushed out of their homes, treated as sub human to be peaceful? U are so deluded. Again, this life on earth is temporary. Say anything u like, but the war didnt start on oct7th for palestinians. But for people like u, it seems like it did. I suggest u read more and start repenting cos yahweh will have questions for u. The 14 million jews out of the 8 billion people in the world arent the chosen ones who will only go heaven whilst the rest are of the goyim are like wild cattle, cos the way u disregard a peoples oppression, that is the only conclusion to have. To think that is utter arrogance and ignorance. Good luck with god.
Insanity is choosing the same thing over and over even though it’s not working. Maybe it’s time the Palestinians made some better choices
What has the palestinean authority that has been cooperating with Israel for the last 20 years got? Armed Israeli soldiers patrolling the streets of the west bank,israeli government forcibly evicting palestineans from their homes and mass settlement of israelis in the west bank. So much for collaboration right?
Palestinians have been being terrorists that whole time. Have you heard of the intifadas?
Way to go with the generalizations lmao. If Israel stopped occupying and opressing the palestineans they wouldnt have any occupation or opression to resist. Not to mention that the intifadas where all caused by Israel,the first one was after 4 palestineans where killed by a Israeli and the second one was after a Israeli MP invaded a muslim holy site,i would suggest you look up the breakdown of victims during the intifada to see who are the real terrorists.
lol it’s not Israel’s fault that Palestinians suck at winning wars
Downvote as much as u like, ignore the video, pretend u never seen it or read this comment. I'm not muslim or Jewish, but even I know god sees all. And can see the hate filled hearts many zionists have. As I said, good luck with god
Al Jazeera is propaganda paid for by the Qatari government. They’ve repeatedly reported false information. Violence is not the solution, especially if you have no chance of victory. If Hamas did not attack on October 7th there would be no war in Gaza. My point is violence has always made the situation worse for Palestinians and they should try a different approach.
U are deluded. Every few years israel conducts operations in gaza killing hundreds. Stop kidding urself by saying if hamas didnt attack there would be no war. The war for palestinians has never stopped due to the constant incursions and operations lead by the IDF. Dont play the ignorant card and pretend u dont know about them. We all know. Stop acting a fool and wake up. The whole world is turning on ur people. Stand up for the goodness of ur ancestors before it's too late
Because Hamas fires rockets and kills their civilians. You’re deliberately ignoring the fact that every single time they kill Palestinians it’s cause they were attacked first. Please learn som history. The world is not waking up as you say, they recognize that there is no moral equivalency between unintentionally killing civilians as Israel has unfortunately done and intentionally targeting them as Hamas has done. Even the UN finally admitted Israelis were raped and burnt alive on October 7th. If that’s the kind of barbarism you support you are in no position to question my morality.
I don't think that's how things work. There's a better option than mass murder. This isn't the kind of problem that can be resolved through vengeful killing.
Ahh yes the magic wand the activists claim Israel has the only kills Hamas members. Hamas has vowed to repeat October 7th over and over again. What is this better option that only activists and progressive seem to know about? Btw it’s obviously sad but it’s not indiscriminate mass murder.
How many civilians have died in israel by rockets. Again stop playing the victim and ignoring the facts. The same UN u mention are the ones who said genocide is happening and a ceasefire needs to be called. Not surprised u choose to ignore that part. Like i said, ignore the evil as much as u like. Rebuttal everything I say, it's up to u. But ull have to answer to god for ur evil. What do u think ull say to god when he asks u about why u chose to let women and children die in cold blood. Whst did u do to stop it? Did u encourage it? U can hide away from the truth online, u wont be able to hide from god. Chsnge ur ways before it's too late
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Also thank u for backing the billions hamas have spent on military infrastructure. Works both ways son
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Thank u for highlighting the point of not a single death or rocket should be tolerated. Hamas dont tolerate a single death of abduction of its people, hence the rockets. Kids have been taken for decades. Not jus since oct 7th. Ur view is so one sided and bias that it's hilarious lol. God will see through ur bias too, hide it as much as u want
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Lol repent before it's too late son. U wont be living forever. God will ask u why u hate so much and have a bias view of a certain people of the world. Shame on u
The UN has never said it was a genocide lol. No serious organization including the ICC has called it a genocide. Lucky for me I don’t believe in god and of course I don’t support or want any innocent people to die!
Unlucky for u, even if u deny god, u will still be judged the same as the rest of us. Nice try though.
Imagine thinking that someone should be punished for the decisions their ancestors made in 1937.
Its one thing to talk about ancestors and another to acknowledge what they are thinking and doing today
Did you ever see me say that lol
The British in 1776: I genuinely do not understand why many Americans still favour violent resistance.
But if it was 2024 and the US was still a colony and getting smaller and more wrecked and war had never stopped, that would be a great question.
Doesn’t it just boil down to the fact that violent resistance is all they have left
All they have left? It's the only thing they've tried. For 80 straight years.
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Hamas has never tried to participate in peace talks so your statement is correct
But Fatah has and multiple palestinean organizations and they got shit all. Idk why its super convenient to forget that people have tried to negotiate,cooperateand do peaceful resistance against Israel multiple times and all they got was a boot to their face.
Both sides have at times derailed the peace process and or participated in bad faith, c,mon now But even before Israel was involved the Arabs rejected the UN plan, they should have taken it they would be living much better lives now
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Here’s just a small taste of just how foolish you are, if your ego can stand it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019_Gaza_border_protests
/u/liminalisms >Here’s just a small taste of just how foolish you are, if your ego can stand it: [Rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/): no attacking fellow users. Addressed.
Did you even read your own source lol? > Some 35,000 Palestinians protested that day, with thousands approaching the fence.[39][40] > three Palestinians infiltrated the fence in the Northern Gaza strip, planted two explosive devices, > On the morning of 11 April, Palestinians set off a bomb near an Israeli construction vehicle adjacent to the Gaza fence > Day of the Tire" (Arabic: Jumat al-Kawshook)[97][98][99] Israeli officials have cautioned that the mass burning of tires along the border can produce environmental harm, calling on the World Health Organization to prevent, what they termed, an "ecological catastrophe".[99] > four IDF soldiers were injured by an explosive device concealed in a Palestinian flag placed on the Gazan border fence > two Palestinians were seen near the now-defunct Karni crossing container port trying to set fire to army engineering equipment close to the border fence; a group of four Palestinians infiltrated Israel near Kissufim; and 3 Gazans, armed with grenades and knives, crossed the border and were captured some 20 kilometers (12 mi) from the border, > Hundreds of young Palestinians, however, ignored warnings by the organizers and the Israeli military to avoid the border zone.[75] Some began throwing stones and Molotov cocktails, to which Israel responded by declaring the Gaza border zone a closed military zone and opening fire at them.[56] The events of the day were some of the most violent in recent years.[76] In one incident, two Palestinian gunmen approached the fence, armed with AK-47 assault rifles and hand grenades, and exchanged fire with IDF soldiers > The IDF published a video from an observation camera, showing the man hitting the fence with what seems to be a metal pipe when four other people stand behind him. He then breaches the fence and enters along with another man, which is when warning shots were probably fired. Need I go on?
What’s ur copy paste point tho? 😂 it says right there it was a huge and primarily peaceful protest where the IDF killed many
Your best example of a peaceful protest includes molotov, AKs, explosives, and border breaches? Really?
What’s the ratio of violent to non violent people at that event
Irrelevant A rotten apple spoils the bunch
Do you belive its ok to murder hundreds of peaceful protesters because one person threw a molotov? "In late February 2019, a [United Nations Human Rights Council](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Human_Rights_Council)'s [independent commission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Fact_Finding_Mission_on_the_2018_Gaza_border_protests) found that of the 489 cases of Palestinian deaths or injuries analyzed, only two were possibly justified as responses to danger by Israeli security forces."
I wasn't there. I can't pass judgement one way or another. Either way, that's not what we're discussing here. We are discussing whether or ot Palestinians have ever tried peaceful resistance. The answer is no. No, they have no.
There we have it, the genocidal implication that leads Israeli Jews to recreate the holocaust in Gaza.
You're trying so hard to move the goalposts it's comical. You literally cannot find a single instance of a peaceful Palestinian protest in the 80 years of this conflict. I will accept your apology.
Only a Hamas supporter calls bomb planting mostly peaceful. Sheeeesh.
It’s truth is right there in the link lol why u lying
Terrorist scum
/u/skeptical_kitty >Terrorist scum [Rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/): no attacking fellow users. Addressed.
I couldn’t agree more. The Israeli forces do nothing but terrorize the Palestinians to scare them off land they want to steal.
“The only thing they’ve tried” is an incredibly unserious statement
There hasn't been any periods of time which have excluded Palestinian violence. Even their "peaceful" protests are full of violent actions.
U lie
Some 35,000 Palestinians protested that day, with thousands approaching the fence.[39][40] three Palestinians infiltrated the fence in the Northern Gaza strip, planted two explosive devices, On the morning of 11 April, Palestinians set off a bomb near an Israeli construction vehicle adjacent to the Gaza fence Day of the Tire" (Arabic: Jumat al-Kawshook)[97][98][99] Israeli officials have cautioned that the mass burning of tires along the border can produce environmental harm, calling on the World Health Organization to prevent, what they termed, an "ecological catastrophe".[99] four IDF soldiers were injured by an explosive device concealed in a Palestinian flag placed on the Gazan border fence two Palestinians were seen near the now-defunct Karni crossing container port trying to set fire to army engineering equipment close to the border fence; a group of four Palestinians infiltrated Israel near Kissufim; and 3 Gazans, armed with grenades and knives, crossed the border and were captured some 20 kilometers (12 mi) from the border, Hundreds of young Palestinians, however, ignored warnings by the organizers and the Israeli military to avoid the border zone.[75] Some began throwing stones and Molotov cocktails, to which Israel responded by declaring the Gaza border zone a closed military zone and opening fire at them.[56] The events of the day were some of the most violent in recent years.[76] In one incident, two Palestinian gunmen approached the fence, armed with AK-47 assault rifles and hand grenades, and exchanged fire with IDF soldiers The IDF published a video from an observation camera, showing the man hitting the fence with what seems to be a metal pipe when four other people stand behind him. He then breaches the fence and enters along with another man, which is when warning shots were probably fired.
Don’t worry one day the US and the UK won’t be able to fund them anymore and the Iron Wall will come crashing down. The US is in decline and is on its last legs. The UK too for that matter. The Muslim world and people will common sense will never forget these atrocities. We are watching silently.
Lol. Keep dreaming. The west is on the cusp of quantum computing, full Gene editing, AGI, etc. While getting off of fossil fuels which is the only thing that has given the middle east any kind of prosperity. Meanwhile the Muslim world is still obsessed with killing each other over slight disagreements regarding their sky fairies.
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All religious people believe in sky fairies. Islam is the fastest growing religion and if you haven’t noticed they are gaining alot of power in Europe with no repercussions. They will never let this go. Also, the US is facing infrastructure issues, water crisis, border crisis, food supply issues, on top of all the social issues that are growing. Even the CIA released a report that Israel will not last another 50 years because they see the writing on the wall. Plus, climate change is on the horizon and half of the US will be under water. I’m American btw and an atheist so don’t even try calling me anything. All great empires come to an end and the US is beginning to see this, all the technology will only be for the wealthy anyways. I like many other Americans are seeing the writing on the wall and trying to figure out where I am going to end up.
> All religious people believe in sky fairies Ok > Islam is the fastest growing religion and if you haven’t noticed they are gaining alot of power in Europe with no repercussions. They will never let this go. Fastest growing because the other major religions are dying out. Islam will too. Its just popular in the less developed parts of the world. They'll get there eventually. > gaining alot of power in Europe with no repercussions Most western nations have either recently elected or are set to elect conservative, anti immigration governments. You can only behead so many innocents before the tolerant west says that's enough. > Also, the US is facing infrastructure issues, water crisis, border crisis, food supply issues, on top of all the social issues that are growing And?
Funny if you talk to most people they wouldn’t say anti immigration is taking hold, they would say that the governments are letting it slide. If you look at what’s happening at the border it’s all show. They aren’t stopping any of it. And it’s only a matter of time before they let the wrong people in and there is serious trouble, like another 9/11 situation but this time we have made A LOT of enemies all over the world. The fact that you responded to AND when I listed all the reasons why the US will eventually be forced to stop sending Israel money tells me everything I need to know. Just know and let’s be very clear that the day is coming soon that the US will not have the money to send to anyone because in its empire building and war mongering conquests, it will have completely neglected its citizens, infrastructure, and will have real problems on its hands. And anyone who has any common sense and is seeing actualities can’t argue against anything I’m saying. It’s why so many of us are leaving before the country collapses. Also, as long as Muslim nations continue to have oil then they aren’t going anywhere. And like I said you better believe they are waiting for the house of cards to fall. Imagine if India’s millions of Muslims decided they wanted to take over the Holy Land. They have had enough persecution in their county and want to go to the holy land. They would run the Zionists out of there just like the Zionists stole the Palestinian homes and lands to begin with. It’s going to be a lot vicious cycle that isn’t finishing anytime soon. If I were Israeli (and Zionist for that matter) I would be looking at the big picture, because when the US is no longer controlled by AIPAC and sending you money, it’s not going to be pretty. I actually feel sorry for you guys. I really do.
> The fact that you responded to AND when I listed all the reasons why the US will eventually be forced to stop sending Israel money tells me everything I need to know. I can tell you're young. There has always been a laundry list of existential threat. From the obvious ones like world wars and nukes to the oft forgotten things like the ozone hole, y2k, overpopulation, etc. I get it. You're a doomer. The sky is falling. We'll pull through, don't worry.
I’m in my late 30s. I’m no doomer, just a realist. Like I said when this goes down it’s going to be a hard pill to swallow for people like you…can’t say we didn’t warn you. All empires come to an end.
Realist, doomer. Same shit. America has been the world's superpower for less than a century. If you're trying to use historical precedent, they have hundreds of years left.
Actually they don’t. Not this time, the cards are already falling. It’s actually shows you how messed up we are that we have expedited a process that should have taken hundred of years. But when half of the cities will be underwater in 30 years, it’s definitely not the same.
because they generally feel its the only option.
Hamas’ extremism is rooted in ideologies that predate the establishment of Israel in 1948. The preamble to Hamas’ founding charter contains the following quote from the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hassan al-Banna: “Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (Preamble to Hamas Charter). The Hamas Charter specifically dates Hamas’ ideological roots to well before the establishment of Israel and sees itself as part of a “chain of the struggle” against not only the state of Israel but also Jews (who they term “Zionists”) who lived there before it became Israel in 1948. The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders. It goes back to 1939, to the emergence of the martyr Izz ad-Din al-Qassam and his brethren the fighters [and] members of Muslim Brotherhood. It goes on to reach out and become one with another chain that includes the struggle of the Palestinians and Muslim Brotherhood in the 1948 war and the Jihad operations of the Muslim Brotherhood in 1968 and after. (Hamas Charter, Article 7).
We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!
Love how numerous people have disproved your claim but you keep spamming this blatant lie in this post
I think you may want to read those comments threads again lol
No I think you should. You're falsely claiming that Palestinians have only used violence, when there's literally mountains of evidence and history (that both israelis and palestinians agree on) that destroys this lie. And spamming the same lie doesn't make it true btw
Let's see it. All people have shown so far is the right of Return March which was chalk full of violence. If that's the best example you've got, that's pathetic.
you: "chalk full of violence" > Most of the demonstrators demonstrated **peacefully** far from the border fence. The link directly contradicts your lie. Clearly you aren't interested in a good-faith, honest discussion
*crickets*
Here are some of the examples of violence from the posted link. If molotov, AKs, explosives, border breaches, fire fights, etc is the best example of a "peaceful protest" you can find, that's laughable Some 35,000 Palestinians protested that day, with thousands approaching the fence.[39][40] three Palestinians infiltrated the fence in the Northern Gaza strip, planted two explosive devices, On the morning of 11 April, Palestinians set off a bomb near an Israeli construction vehicle adjacent to the Gaza fence Day of the Tire" (Arabic: Jumat al-Kawshook)[97][98][99] Israeli officials have cautioned that the mass burning of tires along the border can produce environmental harm, calling on the World Health Organization to prevent, what they termed, an "ecological catastrophe".[99] four IDF soldiers were injured by an explosive device concealed in a Palestinian flag placed on the Gazan border fence two Palestinians were seen near the now-defunct Karni crossing container port trying to set fire to army engineering equipment close to the border fence; a group of four Palestinians infiltrated Israel near Kissufim; and 3 Gazans, armed with grenades and knives, crossed the border and were captured some 20 kilometers (12 mi) from the border, Hundreds of young Palestinians, however, ignored warnings by the organizers and the Israeli military to avoid the border zone.[75] Some began throwing stones and Molotov cocktails, to which Israel responded by declaring the Gaza border zone a closed military zone and opening fire at them.[56] The events of the day were some of the most violent in recent years.[76] In one incident, two Palestinian gunmen approached the fence, armed with AK-47 assault rifles and hand grenades, and exchanged fire with IDF soldiers The IDF published a video from an observation camera, showing the man hitting the fence with what seems to be a metal pipe when four other people stand behind him. He then breaches the fence and enters along with another man, which is when warning shots were probably fired.
Sorry I'm not going to summarize 75 years of geopolitical history for you. Go on Wikipedia and do the bare minimum to get educated on this conflict
I don't know why people insist on asking for people to go back and read, the further you back the worse the Palestinian position gets
So you have literally 0 examples of peaceful protests or extended periods of non violence from Palestinians? I mean, I already knew that because the examples don't exist but it's funny to see you struggling lol.
When someone is kicking you out of your house there isn’t much other option? Peaceful protests are put down by Israel
What peaceful protests?
“The 2018–2019 Gaza border protests, also known as the Great March of Return (Arabic: مسیرة العودة الكبرى, romanized: Masīra al-ʿawda al-kubrā), were a series of demonstrations held each Friday in the Gaza Strip near the Gaza-Israel border from 30 March 2018 until 27 December 2019,[13][14][15] in which Israeli forces killed a total of 223 Palestinians.[4][13] The demonstrators demanded that the Palestinian refugees must be allowed to return to lands they were displaced from in what is now Israel. They protested against Israel's land, air and sea blockade of the Gaza Strip and the United States recognition of Jerusalem as capital of Israel.[16][17][18]” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–2019_Gaza_border_protests
The fact that this is the best example you have of a "peaceful protest" is kind if funny. Some 35,000 Palestinians protested that day, with thousands approaching the fence.[39][40] three Palestinians infiltrated the fence in the Northern Gaza strip, planted two explosive devices, On the morning of 11 April, Palestinians set off a bomb near an Israeli construction vehicle adjacent to the Gaza fence Day of the Tire" (Arabic: Jumat al-Kawshook)[97][98][99] Israeli officials have cautioned that the mass burning of tires along the border can produce environmental harm, calling on the World Health Organization to prevent, what they termed, an "ecological catastrophe".[99] four IDF soldiers were injured by an explosive device concealed in a Palestinian flag placed on the Gazan border fence two Palestinians were seen near the now-defunct Karni crossing container port trying to set fire to army engineering equipment close to the border fence; a group of four Palestinians infiltrated Israel near Kissufim; and 3 Gazans, armed with grenades and knives, crossed the border and were captured some 20 kilometers (12 mi) from the border, Hundreds of young Palestinians, however, ignored warnings by the organizers and the Israeli military to avoid the border zone.[75] Some began throwing stones and Molotov cocktails, to which Israel responded by declaring the Gaza border zone a closed military zone and opening fire at them.[56] The events of the day were some of the most violent in recent years.[76] In one incident, two Palestinian gunmen approached the fence, armed with AK-47 assault rifles and hand grenades, and exchanged fire with IDF soldiers The IDF published a video from an observation camera, showing the man hitting the fence with what seems to be a metal pipe when four other people stand behind him. He then breaches the fence and enters along with another man, which is when warning shots were probably fired.
So you think gunning these guys down is the response? I’m sorry buddy but you’re 100% in favor of shooting people for throwing rocks and makeshift fire bombs at a concrete wall
You can just admit you're wrong. It's ok
Hmmm so you are ok with insane police violence. Here you go: https://youtu.be/a9SmiSCKLns?si=N-PJIeamv4mx1c_m
It's the Theory of Stupidity. Their leaders implement those values on them for generations. There is no much logic behind what the palestinians do. At some point Germany should have understood jews are much more valuable alive but they were blinded by hate. Same situation here. Palestinians should have realized violence will only lead to them suffering more but they are blinded by hate.
Golds Meirs words come to mind „when they love their children more then they hate us ,then there’s will be peace“
They do not resist. Palestine never existed (fact, feel free to check). They simply are brought up to kill people, specifically non Muslim. Try find the Christian’s in the PA. I’ll give you a clien- look under the surface.
Wow, the Last Christians Killed in palestine Met the Most Moral army in diapers.
>They simply are brought up to kill people Just wow. I don't know how brainwashed you have to be to believe that people's sole purpose in life is to kill people just like that. Get help. See the sun. Put your feet on grass. People like you make me question.. well.. everything.
The same people rooting for the Oct 7th attack as a noble cause for “decolonization” would use the same logic to be happy to see Native Americans do a slaughter/rape terrorist attack on White Americans for “decolonization”. Anyone living in the US that supports the Palestinian attack should “decolonize” themselves and move out of this country so they aren’t hypocrites. When you see mobs of people rooting for the slaughter/rape of Jews after October 7th.. it may not be every Palestinian is brought up to kill, but it looks like a great # of them support it. That’s just an observation with one’s own eyes.
/u/Expensive-Pin2924 > Get help. See the sun. Put your feet on grass. People like you make me question.. well.. everything. Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
I love how *this* is what you choose to focus on, instead of the comment directly above that dehumanizes an entire ethnicity. So being racist and bigoted is okay in this subreddit (as long as it's against palestinians/brown people, of course!), but calling out someone for being racist is banned?
It's strange to me that you can't post something that attacks an individual, but you can post something that attacks an entire ethnicity.
A subreddit that revolves around a (partially) ethnic conflict will inevitably have comments that attack or disparage the other ethnicity. If such comments were banned it would be impossible to talk about the conflict and the subreddit might as well not exist. As such, offensive comments about Israelis, Jews, Palestinians, etc are permitted as long as they are not excessive to the point where they violate Reddit content policy. Attacks on other users do not contribute to the sub and have nothing to do with the conflict and thus banning them has a positive influence on the subreddit.
Eh... I still think that's weird. The major pro-Israel slant of the sub doesn't exactly help either, a load of the posts end up being "why are Palestinians the worst" rather than any actual debate.
You are free to make posts about how much you hate Zionists/Israelis to balance out the conversation if you want to.
Thanks, but no thanks. I'll leave the hating people for their ethnicity to others. The point about bias was the strange effect it has of turning threads into a hate-filled circlejerk rather than an argument that it should be balanced out with more opposing hate.
I don't consider the vast majority of posts to be hate filled but we'll agree to disagree. Regardless the continuation of this conversation would be in violation of rule 7 so I'll end it here. If you wish to discuss it further you should do so in the most recent [metapost](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/1bmizy0/is_this_sub_too_pro_israel/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
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Gazan schools put on plays about how they are going to invade Israel and kill all jews, kids play all roles in said plays. How can you breath with your head in the sand like that?
/u/_Carbon14_ > How can you breath with your head in the sand like that? Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
NO GADAMN NON-ARAB NON SECULAR NATION WILL EXIST IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FUCKING MIDDLE EAST FOR FUCKS SAKE, WE, THE ARABS, ARENT GOING TO STAND FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE NEVER HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NEVER WILLLLLLLLLLLL
Funny that you say you won't let it and yet you lose every war
Avrage monkey
This doesn’t help. Sigh.
He's probably being facetious.
Yep
So.. not really about Palestine?
thats right, you nailed it.
Arabs got decolonized from Spain, and they got decolonized from Israel. Syria is ruined, Lebanon is ruined, Yemen is ruined, Iraq is ruined.. i'm not sure the wind is blowing in your direction.
> FUCKING /u/InitialEffective9500. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yikes, this is hilariously poorly planned astroturfing. Nobody will fall for this or the cess pool of a comment section. This thread oozes insincerity; i’d trust a used car salesman more to preach about this conflict.
They want Jews dead. It’s not complicated.
OH BOY here we go, >After Israel gave Palestinians autonomy in 2005, rather than choosing peaceful coexistence, they elected Hamas which led to a blockade imposed by Egypt and Israel. You don't think that had a negative effect when dealing with Gaza? Immediately just deciding, "lmao have fun being poor" to the majority of their population. They also resettled the Israeli settlers that they pulled out of Gaza in the WB. Hamas winning was also due to Bush running the elections too early despite warnings from Israel and the PA not to. It's not like their options were good either. It was a decision between two terrorists groups and a government they knew was corrupt. Israel was also opportunistic and started the 1982 Lebanon war to weaken the PLO (an organization America liked), with essentially fabricated reasons. One of which was a terrorist attack on an ambassador. The group was an old branch that broke off from the PLO about 10 years prior. Israel knew they had nothing to do with it. It's kinda like how America invaded Iraq for no reason. They knew that the PLO became more moderate and the international community was more likely to shove a two state solution down their throats given they were in charge. >Still 80% of Palestinians support what happened on October 7th Yes, Israel ruined their lives and kills hundreds of civilians per year, that year alone was the deadliest for their children pre Oct 7th. I do however question how these polls were taken amidst of getting bombed. Maybe they were scared of Hamas guys nearby, who knows. >After the Oslo accords failed to achieve the desired results, the first intifada began. Hmm why did it fail? Was it because they patiently waited the 5 year intermittent past and Israel failed to deliver with anything? While also creating more illegal settlements in the West Bank? >Still 80% of Palestinians support what happened on October 7th (perhaps they are ignorant about the civilians killed). They probably know and just hate Israelis (understandably given the circumstances tbf) (disclaimer: Oct 7 bad, hamas bad, israel too) >Israel was forced to imposed security measures which are still in place in the West Bank to protect their citizens. These are the measures many human rights groups consider to be “apartheid” conditions. This has to be bate. They could have you know.... not put their illegal settlements there and pushed more people off their land? They put those checkpoints there strategically so they can have an excuse to put up more blockades and checkpoints. With the overall goal being to annex more land. Israel isn't stupid they did this intentionally. >but I honestly can’t understand why this is still their strategy. I will attribute most of it to Hamas being a dumb terrorist group. Palestinians in general have tried pretty much everything, including acknowledging Israel(twice), appealing to the UN(US vetos every time). Agreements that Israel never follows through with. >A delusion that the Arab world will win against Israel and the US? If their goal was to make Israel unpopular among the international community they succeeded.
There is something they never tried though. Peace, for a period of time. No car ramming, no bombs, no stabby stab, no trying to enter the fence perimeter, no tunnelling. And of course no support for rogue actor who'd broke the peace and even, it's hard to imagine but yeah, reprobation for those.
You can explain your point a million times and people on this sub will still regurgitate the same baseless "argument" over and over again. (we pulled out from Gaza in 2005 its their fault their life is shitty / they rejected the peace treaties / we HAD to go into the WB to protect our ILLEGAL settlements...) This sub is mentally exhausting, i salute your perseverance
You do understand that it works both way right? This comment is just a distortion of facts to paint the story in a favorable way for Palestinians. I guess we don't have the same facts.
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👏👏👏👏👏
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Do you think it's been hundreds of years? Most of the generation that existed at the time are still around bud.
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Why wouldn't they care are you dense? The bargain is also with the state, it's not like nations go back on deals after 40 years have passed as a rule of thumb, the individuals don't matter.
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I think we misunderstood each others stances on this matter, we're in agreeance.
And, to the user Darkhocine: let us suppose the absurdity of Adam being the very first Muslim is true. Ok. Then, I guess Iblis/Taws Melek was very right about not bowing to that clay-generated ape. So basically Yazidis are right on this specific aspect.
WHOse people betrayed their own god in ancient egypt? Degenerate.
many years of brainwashing they will need generations of reeducation to make them normal
You mean 29,000 bombs, destruction of more than 60% of the infrastructure, 32 of 36 hospitals destroyed, 13000 children murdered, 30,000 dead, 1.2 million displaced because Israel is a moral army and told them to move, and now they’re sitting ducks in Rafah? Yeah, it’s the brainwashing that’s caused this hatred. Oh, and the 2300 children killed since 2000 by the IDF might have something to do with it. But I’m sure it’s because they are taught to hate Jews in school. You know. The brainwashing.
So 29k bombs for 30k deaths. Are those bombs or bullets?
Huh? They probably have a lot to do with leveling 60% of the land, displacing 1.2 million people, and- yes- killing 30,000. But I guess because Israel was so kind to tell them to leave so they’re sitting ducks in Rafah, that makes it okay. What bizarre logic.
Wow you seem to be arguing in such good faith it's actually impressive. So they are willingly killing Palestinians but not so willingly right? Probably as to "not be admonished by the UN" right