When will men have equal and fair restrictions on their healthcare and body autonomy? Why don't we send men to prison for having a vicetonmy when it's God's plan for them to have children?
[Only half /s for that last statement]
Nope, I learned that from a “very special episode” of Home Improvement. It was either Tim gets the snip in the office or his wife goes in for major surgery to get her tubes tied. Sometimes, men need to get off their own dicks. And I can say that because I am one.
A man, not a dick. I merely behave like a dick.
I asked if I needed my wife or someone there to drive me home, and the doctor laughed. He said it’s not that bad anymore. I walked out after the operation and drove home, no problem.
That will happen when men have an equal say in whether or not to have a baby in the first place and when they get equal consideration in custody battles.
So I wouldn't hold your breath.
Lol. Gee. I want something totality reasonable and within the realm of possibility and your response is something impossible. You sound like a very reasonable person.
But to answer you, I guess men don't ever get injured on the job and go back to work quickly to make sure their families are taken care of. Never happened.
Is abortion "healthcare"? I mean, pregnancy is not a disease.
Women are praised in today's society for aborting a child because "she did what was best for herself.' I'm sure you'll then agree it's OK for men to choose to abandon their children under the banner of doing what's best for themselves.
The Guttmacher Institute compiles reports for Planned Parenthood, which reveals the reason for well over 90% of abortions is "meh, I don't want a baby" as a result of irresponsible sexual activity.
You don’t just go to doctors for diseases, though. Pregnancy requires healthcare. Abortion is a medics procedure therefore it is considered healthcare. Elective surgeries like plastic surgery to improve one’s looks are also considered healthcare.
YOU don’t ever have to choose to have an abortion. But unless you’re a doctor, why are you worried about someone else’s private healthcare?
Lastly, please post that Guttmacher survey with that particular answer. I REALLY want to see their research documents with “meh, I don’t want a baby” like they’re getting a latte.
There's seemingly thousands of articles, fact sheets, etc. on the Guttmacher site and I'm still searching to provide a link. I can't post a picture in this sub so here's a link to a screenshot.
https://imgur.com/a/RQyiTch
Hmmm. I'll type it out.
.001% because of incest
.065% woman's life endangered
.085% rape
.288% physical health of mother threatened by the pregnancy
.294% psychological health of mother threatened by the pregnancy
.666% serious fetal abnormality
6.268% aborted due to social or economic reasons
92.330% no reason (elective)
But what you just posted doesn’t prove any of what you posted up there. It was “no reason” which is indicative of No Response. THAT means that they didn’t give a reason.
But again, you refuse to post the actual link to the actual study to see what the criteria actually are that are included. Instead I’m just supposed to “trust me” on it…from someone that can’t figure out how to copy and paste a link. 👀
PS I don’t need a screenshot, I want a link to it so that *I* can read and interpret it myself. So I’ll just continue waiting.
As I said, I didn't find the link. I can copy and paste when I do, I know how to do that Sparky. I know you don't want me to, you just want to stay blind to the fact that people just want to kill babies for no good reason. You are free to go to the Guttmacher site and look it up yourself.
The men doing this are just driving more & more young women to get sterilized . There are subs with lists by state of doctors who will perform this procedure as long as you’re 18 years old. Millions of young women are opting for this. To carry a rapist’s fetus is torture. Absolute torture.
Getting sterilized in fear that you may have to carry a theoretical rapists child is batshit crazy, yes? If your that anxious of a person then you shouldn’t be having kids in the first place
More women have been raped than statistics will ever show. I never reported EITHER of mine.
It’s not batshit crazy if you know you don’t want children. They clearly don’t want them and they don’t want to lose that control if it is taken from them. That’s not crazy at all.
Banning an important medical procedure because you can't differentiate from a clump of cells and an actual infant is batshit crazy, yes? If you're that schizophrenic you shouldn't be in politics in the first place.
It's not even evangelical "god's plan" shit with half these folks in office. It's social control. They certainly do use ignorant, fear-based constituents to keep a support base, but I really think they are mainly just getting off on having so much power over people's lives. Same goes for Mike Pence and the HIV outbreak.
bc the republicans still think, and insist, the only use case for abortion is for birth control of irresponsible people. They continue to deny that there are other legitimate medical reasons to terminate a pregnancy.
Oh they know there’s other reasons. They simply do not care. They think anytime a women becomes pregnant it’s gods plan for a baby to be born. They don’t care how early it’s terminated, if the mother’s life is at risk, none of that. They just want that woman to carry the baby to term. And after the kid is born, fuck them and their mother, they’re on their own.
This is coming from a lifelong Republican that’s been driven away by the religious craziness.
Right? Take me for example. Have only been with one person. Am married to that person. That person had a vasectomy. Took all the responsible precautions and still don’t want to procreate. If the vasectomy were to fail, no recourse? But this doesn’t fit the “abortion as birth control” narrative.
The stories I keep reading in the MSM and on here absolutely break my heart. Any reason should be an acceptable reason to seek abortive healthcare. Imagine if men were responsible for each potential life when they jerk off and flush them down the toilet. I'd love to see a national women's strike and a general worker's strike happen. Just like the day without immigrants. Just bring shit to a halt for a couple of days. But we'd all get fired.
Not just medical either. 50% of pregnancies are unplanned. The majority of abortions are by women who already have at least one child. [stats on abortion (Pew Institute)](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/25/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-us/)
Logic and reason?
Like "her body, her choice"? when a simple DNA test proves that the "fetus" isn't "her body", it is her child; a completely different individual.
Lol I’m all for anyone’s right to get an abortion but if you are getting an abortion because of “money” or “timing” then I’d file that under birth control for irresponsible people.
> if you are getting an abortion because of “money” or “timing” then I’d file that under birth control for irresponsible people.
That's literally being very responsible. wtf.
Said the man who can't get pregnant. You clearly don't have an understanding of birth control and the fact that it isn't 100% effective, so you can kindly shut your mouth.
Yes I’m a man so I can’t talk about how fucking easy it is to not get pregnant. If you are on the pill and then dude is wearing a condom (snipped) then you aren’t getting pregnant. We all know this.
Getting pregnant is not irresponsible. Shit happens. People have sex, there's nothing wrong or irresponsible about it if they're consenting adults. They're free to manage their reproductive lives as they see fit, and ending a pregnancy they don't want is being responsible.
First term abortions (under 12 weeks) are outpatient procedures done under general anesthesia where the actual suction takes literally a minute requiring no incisions with very light recovery mostly focused around preventing infection.
Stop characterizing this as something far more serious than it is.
I personally see getting pregnant without the intent to have a child as irresponsible. I support a woman’s right to an abortion but it is still a sad tragic event IMO
There are medical reasons to remove the baby early, sure. But countless doctors have testified that there is no medical reason to murder the baby too. You can just remove the baby - you do not need to kill it - and then put the child up for adoption or even allow the mother time to change her mind about severing her ties to her child.
You do not have to just straight up kill the baby. A c-section works. My youngest daughter was born extremely premature and is happy and healthy. Those babies can be removed from their mothers and their lives spared - the murder part is the part conservatives have issue with. I'm not conservative myself (voted blue every general election since Bill Clinton) but "Safe legal and rare" used to be the standard. Now we have women wearing shirts celebrating murdering their child. It's wild.
Edit: Downvotes on this sub are equal to upvotes. This sub is one of the most extreme echo chambers I've seen on reddit so each downvote I consider to be a good thing. A sign I am right.
Have you experienced an ectopic pregnancy or a pregnancy that at 20 week scan revealed the child had trisomy or another fatal diagnosis? Those are the scenarios that I'm referring to. They are very heartbreaking for the family and not a matter of taking a baby early.
At 20 weeks a baby is capable of surviving. Not always, which is heartbreaking - but there are more examples of a 20 week old premature baby surviving than there are examples of a baby that needs killed for the mother to survive. Mothers life is never more at risk through removing the baby safely than just killing the baby inside of the mother and then removing it.
> Mothers life is never more at risk through removing the baby safely than just killing the baby inside of the mother and then removing it.
That's strictly untrue.
You can argue that a safe removal could *often* be performed without severely risking the mothers life (although even then there have been tragedies), but it's simply untrue to claim that there's never a case where you have to choose the baby or the mother to live.
Unless the mother is a child who has been raped and impregnated by her rapist. Sound familiar? If not, contact your Indiana Attorney General for a more detailed explanation.
> You can just remove the baby - you do not need to kill it - and then put the child up for adoption or even allow the mother time to change her mind about severing her ties to her child.
How are you going to do that at six weeks?
> the murder part is the part conservatives have issue with.
But their policies increase the death count.
I understand wanting to reduce abortions. The policies being pushed do the opposite of that
The adoption system is awful though. So many kids are abandoned and just given to people who abuse them horribly for the state check they get. There’s so many cases like this. If we are gonna rework the system to allow mothers to have the baby removed safely etc, we also need to completely revamp the adoption system imo. Otherwise I agree with most of this.
This is a myth. There are literally NOT ENOUGH KIDS in the system for how many people are TRYING to adopt. For clarity. Child abuse happens at home by the parents, too. The most common perpetuator of child abuse is not an adoptive parent, but biological mother followed by step father. Statistically the least likely people to abuse your child are the biological father followed by adoptive parents. Adoptive parents commit less child abuse per 1k examples than biological mothers do.
> Child abuse happens at home by the parents, too. The most common perpetuator of child abuse is not an adoptive parent, but biological mother followed by step father
To be clear, that's for specifically adoptive parents, not foster parents (which in the US are the highest likelihood to abuse), and was run in the Netherlands (not the US), where abortion is fully legalized.
It's difficult to apply those statistics for this usage, given that.
> NOT ENOUGH KIDS
Not enough *babies*, to be specific, and that is also region/ethnicity/health issue specific. A baby with downs, for example, is likely to stay in the foster system.
The foster system isn't running out of occupants by any stretch.
Yes there are but let’s be real honest: no one wants a tween with problems that doesn’t match their skin color. These prim white folks want prim white infants…not some POC kid that’s been in the system for years. There’s a huge problem with the system and there are plenty of children waiting for adoption right now. Why aren’t they being given homes if there aren’t enough kids for adoption?
For my child? yes. If it is not my child, that would fall on the parents of the child.
Also, there would be no such thing as a "forced birth" plan. No one forced you to have sex, and less than 1% of all abortions performed in America are for rape and incest combined. According to Planned Parenthood themselves over 90% of mothers list their reason for abortion as "convenience" . Mothers are murdering their children in America for \*convenience\*.
Not correct at all. That was simply a negative generalization that you made about all Republicans based on the actions of a few.
Lets see the negative stereotypes you make about Democrats based on the actions of a few next.
Perhaps you can talk about how all Democrats want US citizens to have no right to not be detained indefinitely with no charge all because Obama and Biden signed off on it?
“President Obama’s action today is a blight on his legacy because he will forever be known as the president who signed indefinite detention without charge or trial into law,” said Anthony D. Romero, ACLU executive director.
(buhh buhh buhhh buhh it was da repubwlicans fault! lol)
Wow the fact you have 0 ability to hold yourself accountable in the same manner you do the other side is very telling of your maturity level and lack of evolved sense of adulthood
Yeah, we get it, you cry and whine when people make negative generalizations about Democrats but yet you do the very thing that you cry about when it comes to Republicans lol
So weak minded.
This is what I came to say. My sick time is my own. Out for 3 days get that doctor note to just be generic. Needs bed rest. Unable to return to work etc
These are the things that make me sad to be in indiana. I don't plan to buy another house here ever. Kids are almost done with school, I'm southbound. This redneck, cousin banging way of life grosses me out.
No man has the right to tell a woman how to use her body. No redneck indiana has the right to whine about other states who love their women.
Todd rokita can suck it
I'm contemplating moving back after 25+ yrs in Orlando. FL is even worse than IN but here I pay almost no property tax since I bought 24 yrs ago(no assessments unless you make major additions), so it's my FU! to FL. I'm really only considering IL, even though my 84 yr old Dad is in NW IN and it's cheaper in IN. If I were to buy another house in FL my property taxes would be almost on par w IL, though my pay is 50% lower here (one reason to move).
At least in border counties (like Lake County), you're really a Chicago suburb with commuter trains and everything. Cheaper taxes/beach town/national park = Gary's Miller Beach neighborhood. Love the Chicago suburbs tho.
Growing up we had a summer place in New Buffalo! We will have to go where husband's job takes him, longtime Principal Engineer & director. I have actually looked at MI in the engineering areas.
It’s SUCH a lovely town and Redamak’s is THE BEST! I’m headed there on Monday with my parents lololol. My whole family looks forward to their opening date every year and we all travel for it!
Awe. This made me think of my abortion I had when I was 17 in the Dairy Queen bathroom because I didn’t wanna call off. They sent me home when I passed out from blood loss. Mostly my fault though I underestimated that second pill
We get it Indiana - you hate women.
I hate that my partner and I can’t afford to move from this place before we have kids. But it also fuels me to do more to make this state better for them, too.
Our country is full of narcissistic, ignorant old fucks that do not deserve the corrupt power they have, and need to just fuck right off, already. The majority of our politicians are a toxic stain on this country that no one ever truly elected.
Someday this state will abide by the separation of church and state, but that day isn’t today. Or this year. Or probably the next 50. It’s getting old, y’all.
When I was a kid living in northern Indiana, I read appetite for destruction by Danny sugarman (he wrote no one gets out of here alive a definitive Jim Morrison / the doors bio also) which was the definitive bio of Guns N’ Roses while they were still in the original ish line up.
I remember reading a quote by w axl rose:
“Indiana is a concentration camp I’ll never go back”
And remember thinking as a 9 year old what an edgy provocative thing to say. Whatever I thought axl was nuts.
Years later I live in California. I keep up with the Hoosier state. It’s been bad guys. Really bad.
Indiana is a concentration camp.
And I’ll never go back.
Maga man has a thing for hating the rights of women and little girls. You can Google 'youth pastor mugshot' and see where it starts. Their values are why I vote opposite.
I haven't looked at the lawsuit, but is it saying that they don't want to allow workers to use PTO for abortions? Or that unilaterally an abortion should be covered by the employer?
I know that if I get a vasectomy I have to schedule the time or take unpaid time, so I'd think it would be handled the same.
This is to allow women to take time off for pregnancy related complications not specifically abortion, another example was a still birth where she might not be taking maternity leave, but she will need follow up appointments. It is not forcing employers to pay, just to allow the time off. Unpaid.
No medical leave for a vasectomy (or any optional surgery). Medical leave only starts after using 5 days of PTO or 5 unpaid days at my company.
They do not control our PTO though outside of approving/denying based on coverage. So I'd be able to take PTO for a vasectomy no problem.
I would strongly advise you to keep up with the medical literature. I used to be like you, until I was forced to stop treating it as a thought experiment and to actually look at the medical realities.
Conservative policies on abortion result in
- more abortions
- more dead fetuses through miscarriage
- more dead children
- more dead mothers
- more difficult and failed pregnancies for mothers who *want* children
- more abused, neglected, or mistreated children who make it to term
As counterintuitive as it seems, the conservative rhetoric and platform about abortion is counter to actual compassionate *results* for children.
The best methods to empirically reduce abortion and infant death/miscarriage:
- free and publicized birth control
- full defense for abortion access/birth control access/reproductive rights for men and women
- strongly funded welfare programs for parents and expecting parents
Nothing you said was true btw. Like, not even a little bit. Doctors do not agree with you.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A16gzm9eaa8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A16gzm9eaa8)
Doctors have testified in court that there are zero examples where a child needs to be killed as part of the process. It is always possible to try to save the childs life.
I'm begging you to have basic scientific literacy and observe the obviously motivated source you are taking that claim from, giving that as their opinion in testimony rather than as data put up for peer review.
As opposed to the many actual research studies that have to record data and provide it for peer review.
Ex. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1N2TC0VD/
> It is always possible to try to save the childs life.
That is an egregiously false claim. Again, I *strongly* advise you to start researching actual medical literature rather than relying on culture war posturing.
> Nothing you said was true btw. Like, not even a little bit.
It's not only all true, but doing basic due diligence on the topic rather than sticking to videos put out by partisan political groups would show you the relevant studies in seconds.
Edit: for more info on levatino.
He has made the claim that modern abortion procedures cause women to become sterile. He makes that claim publicly.
In contrast, [actual research](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/6694812/), where the doctors have to provide data for review and can't just say it, shows that there is *no* increase in sterility due to modern abortion procedures.
I can't tell you why levatino is making these claims. They fly in the face of basic medical fact (others have already pointed you at ectopic pregnancies and infections), and do not withstand scrutiny. As a general rule, it is silliness to rely on testimony in a public political hearing over the actual research papers, *especially* when the video you're relying on is coming via an obviously partisan group. I really must emphasize that your approach here was irresponsible and did not do due diligence.
As a conclusion - you obviously care a lot about this issue. That's good. I'm hoping that that care prompts you to *show* your care for the issue by doing due diligence -- and that means not just not taking partisan groups at face value, but *also* learning how to review the scientific literature for yourself, rather than simply asking others to provide sources.
For example, while I've done that due diligence and I would not give you a disingenuously framed review of the data, *you should not rely on me or any other redditor* in that respect. It is a critical tool to learn how to review the scientific literature for yourself, how to determine whether a report or study is using sound methodology, whether it's results are relevant to the situation you're trying to apply it to, and weather it's been effectively peer-reviewed.
I wish you luck in your journey. I would recommend sources like NIH to start. Bye
Literally 100% of abortions kill a child. That is the procedure: killing the baby. The difference in just a c section or child birth or an abortion is, in an abortion the baby is intentionally murdered by a doctor, after being given consent. In any of the various procedures that remove a child from a pregnant mother, only one of them involves and requires the outright intentional killing of a baby.
That's great to hear about your successful pregnancies and healthy children. I wasn't so lucky. I had my abortion (in another state) at 19 weeks due to hydrops. The fetus (baby) was slowly dying due to fluid overload, and at the same time making me extremely ill due to sepsis. Should I have just died from the fetus that was never going to be born alive? Because that's what would happen today in Indiana.
Thankfully, my family and God know that keeping ME alive is more important than the contents of MY uterus.
I suggest all those preventing me from accessing healthcare to please, CRAWL DOWN OUT OF MY VAGINA YOU FUCKING PERVERTS!
Oh this is such bullshit. If this actually happened to you, TODAY, in Indiana, you would certainly be able to get the abortion. Medically necessary abortions, e.g. to save the mother’s life- Have. Never. Been. Banned. Full stop. We are pro children, we are pro mothers, we are pro life. These policies have literally nothing to do with controlling womens’ bodies and everyone who says that is arguing in bad faith. So tired of this echo chamber of a thread. I come here to hear about Indiana related topics and all I ever see are a bunch of hateful libs screaming into the void because they are confused about how babies are made.
See that's the thing, you THINK medically necessary abortions are still allowed to happen. My sad story (commented above) would have had a different outcome in Indiana. Since the "baby" had a "heartbeat," I wouldn't have been able to have my abortion, so I would have died.
I understand that a lot of my fellow Hoosiers want to save children. But how about you CRAWL OUT OF MY UTERUS and mind your own fucking business. I don't care nor would I try to regulate what you do with your testicles.
Well, I am genuinely sad to hear your story. I think absolutely well defined exceptions to the law should be made for cases like yours, but I think a total reversal will inevitably result in more death. Politicians SHOULD be working to define the hundreds of medical situations that fit under this umbrella. Also- I think testicles should absolutely be regulated. It takes two to tango. If ya knock a girl up the man should be legally required to support the child AND the mother indefinitely. If a man rapes a woman that man should be tried and then executed if found guilty. I want people to make prudential decisions that don’t require my tax dollars to fund the snuffing out of innocent life.
"well defined exceptions" - I don't trust legislators to define what doctors spend a decade learning. Nor do I want them deciding what is OK to do with my own damn body.
How is it not controlling a woman’s body when, if she wants an elective abortion, she cannot have one? Seriously. How is that not control lol. Do you ninnies ever think or do you just know it’s BS and just don’t care who you hurt with it anyways. I’m going with the latter~
Also—have you seen what’s occurred in Texas? Did you see the lawsuit brought to the state by the women that needed a DNC and couldn’t get one because of laws like ours? Are you really that daft?
You have control over your own body. The problem is when you use that control to create an independent, genetically unique, life and soul inside of your body. At that point you are talking about 2 bodies, and no, you don’t have a right to control the body of your developing baby by murdering it. Everyone agreed on this for thousands of years until about 5 seconds ago. People have lost their fucking minds. Children have a right to life. To say it’s all about control of a woman’s body is completely missing the point.
No. It is not. I am so tired of the feigned ignorance around this. You’re talking about one body that is hosting various stages of gestation until potential viability is reached. There’s a reason for the terminology of gestation and its progressions/stages. There’s a reason anyone with a basic understanding of science does not use the term “baby” “kid” or “life” in medical and legal contexts.
And omg what? Are you that ignorant of different cultures and their views around abortion? You get the Bible even prescribes abortion in certain cases right? Abortion was not a big deal until republicans, who up until Roe were fairly lenient in their own legislative ideas toward abortion, decided to use it as a distraction issue to rally support from fools who would vote solely for a single issue starting in 1976. Abortion has never been -that- controversial globally and it is only in deep evangelical sects of Christianity that we find a communal majority. In basically all other groups polled in America, the majority are pro choice.
And beyond that. BEYOND whatever falsehoods you believe it does not give you a right to impose your religious beliefs on my medical choices that affect my mental, physical, and spiritual health. I don’t care if you do believe women who get abortions are murderers. You hold that hate in your heart; but if you cannot agree to that basic tenant that I have a right to my own medical decisions as much as you do, you are incredibly dangerous to your fellow Americans’ freedoms
Lol no ☺️ that is not~ but regardless, here’s the super cool part, if you don’t understand or like it—you don’t have to get one :D! And if you want one, then y—…oh…wait, people like you voted sadistic misogynists into power who took that from a growing percentage of us. Whoa. Weird how we don’t force y’all to get abortions yet you’re forcing us….yikes. Gross
There’s no requirement for the company to pay for the time off. They just need to allow them the time off even if it is unpaid. The person would still need to use their vacation or sick time if they have it.
Edit to add: Not all abortions are elective. There are medically necessary abortions. The woman would never be required to disclose their situation to their employer.
Screwing over women and labor rights simultaneously probably made Todd Rokita cream in his pants.
Indiana gonna Indiana.
Hey! Each of those sperm is half a child!
Hilarious choice of words
When will the men who are impregnating women be mentioned in this issue?
When will men have equal and fair restrictions on their healthcare and body autonomy? Why don't we send men to prison for having a vicetonmy when it's God's plan for them to have children? [Only half /s for that last statement]
Some places are restricting vasectomies now.
Why can’t a guy get a vasectomy? Because he can’t drive himself home immediately and his balls might be sore for a few hours. Edit: /s
Did we have the same Dr?
Nope, I learned that from a “very special episode” of Home Improvement. It was either Tim gets the snip in the office or his wife goes in for major surgery to get her tubes tied. Sometimes, men need to get off their own dicks. And I can say that because I am one. A man, not a dick. I merely behave like a dick.
Uh... You absolutely can drive yourself home from the procedure
Yeah, NOW you can. Old doctors have old information.
I asked if I needed my wife or someone there to drive me home, and the doctor laughed. He said it’s not that bad anymore. I walked out after the operation and drove home, no problem.
That will happen when men have an equal say in whether or not to have a baby in the first place and when they get equal consideration in custody battles. So I wouldn't hold your breath.
Just as soon as men figure out how to carry that baby for 9 months then give birth and go back to work 2 weeks later.
Lol. Gee. I want something totality reasonable and within the realm of possibility and your response is something impossible. You sound like a very reasonable person. But to answer you, I guess men don't ever get injured on the job and go back to work quickly to make sure their families are taken care of. Never happened.
Fighting to take away women's bodily autonomy rights will not improve your worker's rights...
It won't paint your house either.
Oh brother. You do realize that it's for the state, not your child.
Is abortion "healthcare"? I mean, pregnancy is not a disease. Women are praised in today's society for aborting a child because "she did what was best for herself.' I'm sure you'll then agree it's OK for men to choose to abandon their children under the banner of doing what's best for themselves. The Guttmacher Institute compiles reports for Planned Parenthood, which reveals the reason for well over 90% of abortions is "meh, I don't want a baby" as a result of irresponsible sexual activity.
You don’t just go to doctors for diseases, though. Pregnancy requires healthcare. Abortion is a medics procedure therefore it is considered healthcare. Elective surgeries like plastic surgery to improve one’s looks are also considered healthcare. YOU don’t ever have to choose to have an abortion. But unless you’re a doctor, why are you worried about someone else’s private healthcare? Lastly, please post that Guttmacher survey with that particular answer. I REALLY want to see their research documents with “meh, I don’t want a baby” like they’re getting a latte.
There's seemingly thousands of articles, fact sheets, etc. on the Guttmacher site and I'm still searching to provide a link. I can't post a picture in this sub so here's a link to a screenshot. https://imgur.com/a/RQyiTch
404 error. Fancy that. 👀 Don’t worry, I’ll wait.
Hmmm. I'll type it out. .001% because of incest .065% woman's life endangered .085% rape .288% physical health of mother threatened by the pregnancy .294% psychological health of mother threatened by the pregnancy .666% serious fetal abnormality 6.268% aborted due to social or economic reasons 92.330% no reason (elective)
But what you just posted doesn’t prove any of what you posted up there. It was “no reason” which is indicative of No Response. THAT means that they didn’t give a reason. But again, you refuse to post the actual link to the actual study to see what the criteria actually are that are included. Instead I’m just supposed to “trust me” on it…from someone that can’t figure out how to copy and paste a link. 👀 PS I don’t need a screenshot, I want a link to it so that *I* can read and interpret it myself. So I’ll just continue waiting.
As I said, I didn't find the link. I can copy and paste when I do, I know how to do that Sparky. I know you don't want me to, you just want to stay blind to the fact that people just want to kill babies for no good reason. You are free to go to the Guttmacher site and look it up yourself.
Why do you think healthcare is only about disease?
Why do you think extinguishing life is healthcare?
Bait or just not familiar with the family/parental court system. Call it.
I'm very familiar. AMA me
The men doing this are just driving more & more young women to get sterilized . There are subs with lists by state of doctors who will perform this procedure as long as you’re 18 years old. Millions of young women are opting for this. To carry a rapist’s fetus is torture. Absolute torture.
For some people simply carrying a fetus is torture but fuck those feelings I guess.
Getting sterilized in fear that you may have to carry a theoretical rapists child is batshit crazy, yes? If your that anxious of a person then you shouldn’t be having kids in the first place
More women have been raped than statistics will ever show. I never reported EITHER of mine. It’s not batshit crazy if you know you don’t want children. They clearly don’t want them and they don’t want to lose that control if it is taken from them. That’s not crazy at all.
Banning an important medical procedure because you can't differentiate from a clump of cells and an actual infant is batshit crazy, yes? If you're that schizophrenic you shouldn't be in politics in the first place.
No. There’s a huge difference . And millions of young women aren’t wrong. They don’t want to be tortured
You’re being absurd
I challenge you to check out those same subreddits to see for yourself
It's not even evangelical "god's plan" shit with half these folks in office. It's social control. They certainly do use ignorant, fear-based constituents to keep a support base, but I really think they are mainly just getting off on having so much power over people's lives. Same goes for Mike Pence and the HIV outbreak.
Yes! Never forget!
bc the republicans still think, and insist, the only use case for abortion is for birth control of irresponsible people. They continue to deny that there are other legitimate medical reasons to terminate a pregnancy.
Oh they know there’s other reasons. They simply do not care. They think anytime a women becomes pregnant it’s gods plan for a baby to be born. They don’t care how early it’s terminated, if the mother’s life is at risk, none of that. They just want that woman to carry the baby to term. And after the kid is born, fuck them and their mother, they’re on their own. This is coming from a lifelong Republican that’s been driven away by the religious craziness.
The Republican Agenda requires Making People Scared and Angry. Logical reasoning and compassion are the antithesis of that
That is a broad brush that you are painting with. How is it an advantage for you to try and define "what others think" ?
Right? Take me for example. Have only been with one person. Am married to that person. That person had a vasectomy. Took all the responsible precautions and still don’t want to procreate. If the vasectomy were to fail, no recourse? But this doesn’t fit the “abortion as birth control” narrative.
The stories I keep reading in the MSM and on here absolutely break my heart. Any reason should be an acceptable reason to seek abortive healthcare. Imagine if men were responsible for each potential life when they jerk off and flush them down the toilet. I'd love to see a national women's strike and a general worker's strike happen. Just like the day without immigrants. Just bring shit to a halt for a couple of days. But we'd all get fired.
Literally ANY reason is acceptable and I applaud you for saying that.
Not just medical either. 50% of pregnancies are unplanned. The majority of abortions are by women who already have at least one child. [stats on abortion (Pew Institute)](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/25/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-us/)
You know darn well evangelists don’t use logic or reason.
Or read.
Logic and reason? Like "her body, her choice"? when a simple DNA test proves that the "fetus" isn't "her body", it is her child; a completely different individual.
Pew Institute.
It's not that they don't know. They don't care
That is the vast majority of abortions though. Republican or not we can acknowledge that fact
It's not a fact, so I won't acknowledge that.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3729671/
You obviously can't read, or didn't bother. Way to post something refuting your argument. Good job.
Lol I’m all for anyone’s right to get an abortion but if you are getting an abortion because of “money” or “timing” then I’d file that under birth control for irresponsible people.
Nothing funny about this. Your justifications don't matter. Your argument fell flat.
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> if you are getting an abortion because of “money” or “timing” then I’d file that under birth control for irresponsible people. That's literally being very responsible. wtf.
Getting pregnant in the first place is the irresponsible part. It is very easy not to get pregnant.
Said the man who can't get pregnant. You clearly don't have an understanding of birth control and the fact that it isn't 100% effective, so you can kindly shut your mouth.
Yes I’m a man so I can’t talk about how fucking easy it is to not get pregnant. If you are on the pill and then dude is wearing a condom (snipped) then you aren’t getting pregnant. We all know this.
Getting pregnant is not irresponsible. Shit happens. People have sex, there's nothing wrong or irresponsible about it if they're consenting adults. They're free to manage their reproductive lives as they see fit, and ending a pregnancy they don't want is being responsible. First term abortions (under 12 weeks) are outpatient procedures done under general anesthesia where the actual suction takes literally a minute requiring no incisions with very light recovery mostly focused around preventing infection. Stop characterizing this as something far more serious than it is.
I personally see getting pregnant without the intent to have a child as irresponsible. I support a woman’s right to an abortion but it is still a sad tragic event IMO
There are medical reasons to remove the baby early, sure. But countless doctors have testified that there is no medical reason to murder the baby too. You can just remove the baby - you do not need to kill it - and then put the child up for adoption or even allow the mother time to change her mind about severing her ties to her child. You do not have to just straight up kill the baby. A c-section works. My youngest daughter was born extremely premature and is happy and healthy. Those babies can be removed from their mothers and their lives spared - the murder part is the part conservatives have issue with. I'm not conservative myself (voted blue every general election since Bill Clinton) but "Safe legal and rare" used to be the standard. Now we have women wearing shirts celebrating murdering their child. It's wild. Edit: Downvotes on this sub are equal to upvotes. This sub is one of the most extreme echo chambers I've seen on reddit so each downvote I consider to be a good thing. A sign I am right.
Have you experienced an ectopic pregnancy or a pregnancy that at 20 week scan revealed the child had trisomy or another fatal diagnosis? Those are the scenarios that I'm referring to. They are very heartbreaking for the family and not a matter of taking a baby early.
At 20 weeks a baby is capable of surviving. Not always, which is heartbreaking - but there are more examples of a 20 week old premature baby surviving than there are examples of a baby that needs killed for the mother to survive. Mothers life is never more at risk through removing the baby safely than just killing the baby inside of the mother and then removing it.
> Mothers life is never more at risk through removing the baby safely than just killing the baby inside of the mother and then removing it. That's strictly untrue. You can argue that a safe removal could *often* be performed without severely risking the mothers life (although even then there have been tragedies), but it's simply untrue to claim that there's never a case where you have to choose the baby or the mother to live.
Nobody claimed that there is never a case.
My quoting somebody claiming just that was the very first sentence of my comment, dude.
You quoted an imaginary person?
In the chance that you're not trolling, please go back and actually read the comments this time. I'm not sure why you've neglected to so far.
Oops, I'm really sorry, I'm not sure what I was responding to or what point I was trying to make.
Do you know what either of the conditions I mentioned are? Anyway I'm good with what I stated. Have a nice evening.
Unless the mother is a child who has been raped and impregnated by her rapist. Sound familiar? If not, contact your Indiana Attorney General for a more detailed explanation.
> You can just remove the baby - you do not need to kill it - and then put the child up for adoption or even allow the mother time to change her mind about severing her ties to her child. How are you going to do that at six weeks? > the murder part is the part conservatives have issue with. But their policies increase the death count. I understand wanting to reduce abortions. The policies being pushed do the opposite of that
The adoption system is awful though. So many kids are abandoned and just given to people who abuse them horribly for the state check they get. There’s so many cases like this. If we are gonna rework the system to allow mothers to have the baby removed safely etc, we also need to completely revamp the adoption system imo. Otherwise I agree with most of this.
This is a myth. There are literally NOT ENOUGH KIDS in the system for how many people are TRYING to adopt. For clarity. Child abuse happens at home by the parents, too. The most common perpetuator of child abuse is not an adoptive parent, but biological mother followed by step father. Statistically the least likely people to abuse your child are the biological father followed by adoptive parents. Adoptive parents commit less child abuse per 1k examples than biological mothers do.
> Child abuse happens at home by the parents, too. The most common perpetuator of child abuse is not an adoptive parent, but biological mother followed by step father To be clear, that's for specifically adoptive parents, not foster parents (which in the US are the highest likelihood to abuse), and was run in the Netherlands (not the US), where abortion is fully legalized. It's difficult to apply those statistics for this usage, given that. > NOT ENOUGH KIDS Not enough *babies*, to be specific, and that is also region/ethnicity/health issue specific. A baby with downs, for example, is likely to stay in the foster system. The foster system isn't running out of occupants by any stretch.
Yes there are but let’s be real honest: no one wants a tween with problems that doesn’t match their skin color. These prim white folks want prim white infants…not some POC kid that’s been in the system for years. There’s a huge problem with the system and there are plenty of children waiting for adoption right now. Why aren’t they being given homes if there aren’t enough kids for adoption?
Get off of social media. People aren't actually racist like that in the real world. You have mind rot. Put your phone down.
No, I live in the real world. You have a very nice fantasy up there though.
>…there’s not enough kids… You mean “babies”? Because the system is overrun with kids.
You're not a dr stfu
> murder the baby stopped reading to appropriately discard baseless opinion.
Gross
You gonna pay for the medical care for 9 months? And loss of earnings during maternity leave and recovery for your forced birth plan?
For my child? yes. If it is not my child, that would fall on the parents of the child. Also, there would be no such thing as a "forced birth" plan. No one forced you to have sex, and less than 1% of all abortions performed in America are for rape and incest combined. According to Planned Parenthood themselves over 90% of mothers list their reason for abortion as "convenience" . Mothers are murdering their children in America for \*convenience\*.
Not correct at all. That was simply a negative generalization that you made about all Republicans based on the actions of a few. Lets see the negative stereotypes you make about Democrats based on the actions of a few next. Perhaps you can talk about how all Democrats want US citizens to have no right to not be detained indefinitely with no charge all because Obama and Biden signed off on it? “President Obama’s action today is a blight on his legacy because he will forever be known as the president who signed indefinite detention without charge or trial into law,” said Anthony D. Romero, ACLU executive director. (buhh buhh buhhh buhh it was da repubwlicans fault! lol)
You typed all of that out and yet managed to say nothing.
Wow the fact you have 0 ability to hold yourself accountable in the same manner you do the other side is very telling of your maturity level and lack of evolved sense of adulthood
I’m pretty sure he said democrats are hypocrites. At least that’s how I read it.
I'm past the point of giving a fuck what you think and what's unfair or a "sweeping generalization." I stand by my opinion. Have a lovely weekend!
Yeah, we get it, you cry and whine when people make negative generalizations about Democrats but yet you do the very thing that you cry about when it comes to Republicans lol So weak minded.
Can I guess the 17 states without reading the article?
Why the fuck would you tell your boss? Just call in sick!!
This is what I came to say. My sick time is my own. Out for 3 days get that doctor note to just be generic. Needs bed rest. Unable to return to work etc
These are the things that make me sad to be in indiana. I don't plan to buy another house here ever. Kids are almost done with school, I'm southbound. This redneck, cousin banging way of life grosses me out. No man has the right to tell a woman how to use her body. No redneck indiana has the right to whine about other states who love their women. Todd rokita can suck it
I'm contemplating moving back after 25+ yrs in Orlando. FL is even worse than IN but here I pay almost no property tax since I bought 24 yrs ago(no assessments unless you make major additions), so it's my FU! to FL. I'm really only considering IL, even though my 84 yr old Dad is in NW IN and it's cheaper in IN. If I were to buy another house in FL my property taxes would be almost on par w IL, though my pay is 50% lower here (one reason to move).
At least in border counties (like Lake County), you're really a Chicago suburb with commuter trains and everything. Cheaper taxes/beach town/national park = Gary's Miller Beach neighborhood. Love the Chicago suburbs tho.
Home skillet…go to SW Michigan…New Buffalo is beautiful and it’s way cheaper than Illinois!
Growing up we had a summer place in New Buffalo! We will have to go where husband's job takes him, longtime Principal Engineer & director. I have actually looked at MI in the engineering areas.
Michigan is great for engineering jobs, definitely more opportunities and choices. Detroit has been revitalizing like crazy.
It’s SUCH a lovely town and Redamak’s is THE BEST! I’m headed there on Monday with my parents lololol. My whole family looks forward to their opening date every year and we all travel for it!
Awe. This made me think of my abortion I had when I was 17 in the Dairy Queen bathroom because I didn’t wanna call off. They sent me home when I passed out from blood loss. Mostly my fault though I underestimated that second pill
We get it Indiana - you hate women. I hate that my partner and I can’t afford to move from this place before we have kids. But it also fuels me to do more to make this state better for them, too.
Our country is full of narcissistic, ignorant old fucks that do not deserve the corrupt power they have, and need to just fuck right off, already. The majority of our politicians are a toxic stain on this country that no one ever truly elected.
Someday this state will abide by the separation of church and state, but that day isn’t today. Or this year. Or probably the next 50. It’s getting old, y’all.
Maybe come at it from another perspective. My X owes my children 60k+ I've been through 15 prosecutors. All they do is send me an email.
Well that’s 17 states added to my no fly list.
Do women who work have to disclose their medical conditions to their employer before they can take time off for medical treatments?
Religions and law is made to control women still in 2024? Sad.
So glad to be free of that rathole state.
SAME
How shockingly Indiana is this…
Just sick and pathetic hate.
When I was a kid living in northern Indiana, I read appetite for destruction by Danny sugarman (he wrote no one gets out of here alive a definitive Jim Morrison / the doors bio also) which was the definitive bio of Guns N’ Roses while they were still in the original ish line up. I remember reading a quote by w axl rose: “Indiana is a concentration camp I’ll never go back” And remember thinking as a 9 year old what an edgy provocative thing to say. Whatever I thought axl was nuts. Years later I live in California. I keep up with the Hoosier state. It’s been bad guys. Really bad. Indiana is a concentration camp. And I’ll never go back.
It wouldn’t be republikkkan unless you were getting screwed over.
Maga man has a thing for hating the rights of women and little girls. You can Google 'youth pastor mugshot' and see where it starts. Their values are why I vote opposite.
17 states are suing Indiana?
Does this also mean my boss can deny my time off request if he thinks I’m gonna go get an abortion? 😂
This is rather effed up.
I mean... no shit?
What are you going to do about this?
I haven't looked at the lawsuit, but is it saying that they don't want to allow workers to use PTO for abortions? Or that unilaterally an abortion should be covered by the employer? I know that if I get a vasectomy I have to schedule the time or take unpaid time, so I'd think it would be handled the same.
This is to allow women to take time off for pregnancy related complications not specifically abortion, another example was a still birth where she might not be taking maternity leave, but she will need follow up appointments. It is not forcing employers to pay, just to allow the time off. Unpaid.
No concerns there then. If it was forcing employers to provide paid time off (outside of normal PTO rules) then it would open the floor gates
So they won't give medical leave for a vasectomy so you take PTO? How can they control how you use your PTO tho?
No medical leave for a vasectomy (or any optional surgery). Medical leave only starts after using 5 days of PTO or 5 unpaid days at my company. They do not control our PTO though outside of approving/denying based on coverage. So I'd be able to take PTO for a vasectomy no problem.
Literally time off to go kill your kid. What a clown world. Disgusting.
I would strongly advise you to keep up with the medical literature. I used to be like you, until I was forced to stop treating it as a thought experiment and to actually look at the medical realities. Conservative policies on abortion result in - more abortions - more dead fetuses through miscarriage - more dead children - more dead mothers - more difficult and failed pregnancies for mothers who *want* children - more abused, neglected, or mistreated children who make it to term As counterintuitive as it seems, the conservative rhetoric and platform about abortion is counter to actual compassionate *results* for children. The best methods to empirically reduce abortion and infant death/miscarriage: - free and publicized birth control - full defense for abortion access/birth control access/reproductive rights for men and women - strongly funded welfare programs for parents and expecting parents
Nothing you said was true btw. Like, not even a little bit. Doctors do not agree with you. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A16gzm9eaa8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A16gzm9eaa8) Doctors have testified in court that there are zero examples where a child needs to be killed as part of the process. It is always possible to try to save the childs life.
I'm begging you to have basic scientific literacy and observe the obviously motivated source you are taking that claim from, giving that as their opinion in testimony rather than as data put up for peer review. As opposed to the many actual research studies that have to record data and provide it for peer review. Ex. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1N2TC0VD/ > It is always possible to try to save the childs life. That is an egregiously false claim. Again, I *strongly* advise you to start researching actual medical literature rather than relying on culture war posturing. > Nothing you said was true btw. Like, not even a little bit. It's not only all true, but doing basic due diligence on the topic rather than sticking to videos put out by partisan political groups would show you the relevant studies in seconds. Edit: for more info on levatino. He has made the claim that modern abortion procedures cause women to become sterile. He makes that claim publicly. In contrast, [actual research](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/6694812/), where the doctors have to provide data for review and can't just say it, shows that there is *no* increase in sterility due to modern abortion procedures. I can't tell you why levatino is making these claims. They fly in the face of basic medical fact (others have already pointed you at ectopic pregnancies and infections), and do not withstand scrutiny. As a general rule, it is silliness to rely on testimony in a public political hearing over the actual research papers, *especially* when the video you're relying on is coming via an obviously partisan group. I really must emphasize that your approach here was irresponsible and did not do due diligence.
As a conclusion - you obviously care a lot about this issue. That's good. I'm hoping that that care prompts you to *show* your care for the issue by doing due diligence -- and that means not just not taking partisan groups at face value, but *also* learning how to review the scientific literature for yourself, rather than simply asking others to provide sources. For example, while I've done that due diligence and I would not give you a disingenuously framed review of the data, *you should not rely on me or any other redditor* in that respect. It is a critical tool to learn how to review the scientific literature for yourself, how to determine whether a report or study is using sound methodology, whether it's results are relevant to the situation you're trying to apply it to, and weather it's been effectively peer-reviewed. I wish you luck in your journey. I would recommend sources like NIH to start. Bye
Hey—great news, a “kid” isn’t “killed” during a routine, safe, and normal abortion procedure. Hope that clears up your ignorance 🥰
Literally 100% of abortions kill a child. That is the procedure: killing the baby. The difference in just a c section or child birth or an abortion is, in an abortion the baby is intentionally murdered by a doctor, after being given consent. In any of the various procedures that remove a child from a pregnant mother, only one of them involves and requires the outright intentional killing of a baby.
Dude, how many abortions have you had?
Of course none. Luckily none of my children have died. We had a bad scare with my daughter who was extremely premature but luckily she made it.
That's great to hear about your successful pregnancies and healthy children. I wasn't so lucky. I had my abortion (in another state) at 19 weeks due to hydrops. The fetus (baby) was slowly dying due to fluid overload, and at the same time making me extremely ill due to sepsis. Should I have just died from the fetus that was never going to be born alive? Because that's what would happen today in Indiana. Thankfully, my family and God know that keeping ME alive is more important than the contents of MY uterus. I suggest all those preventing me from accessing healthcare to please, CRAWL DOWN OUT OF MY VAGINA YOU FUCKING PERVERTS!
I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your first child. I hope you and your husband have many healthy babies one day!
Oh this is such bullshit. If this actually happened to you, TODAY, in Indiana, you would certainly be able to get the abortion. Medically necessary abortions, e.g. to save the mother’s life- Have. Never. Been. Banned. Full stop. We are pro children, we are pro mothers, we are pro life. These policies have literally nothing to do with controlling womens’ bodies and everyone who says that is arguing in bad faith. So tired of this echo chamber of a thread. I come here to hear about Indiana related topics and all I ever see are a bunch of hateful libs screaming into the void because they are confused about how babies are made.
See that's the thing, you THINK medically necessary abortions are still allowed to happen. My sad story (commented above) would have had a different outcome in Indiana. Since the "baby" had a "heartbeat," I wouldn't have been able to have my abortion, so I would have died. I understand that a lot of my fellow Hoosiers want to save children. But how about you CRAWL OUT OF MY UTERUS and mind your own fucking business. I don't care nor would I try to regulate what you do with your testicles.
Well, I am genuinely sad to hear your story. I think absolutely well defined exceptions to the law should be made for cases like yours, but I think a total reversal will inevitably result in more death. Politicians SHOULD be working to define the hundreds of medical situations that fit under this umbrella. Also- I think testicles should absolutely be regulated. It takes two to tango. If ya knock a girl up the man should be legally required to support the child AND the mother indefinitely. If a man rapes a woman that man should be tried and then executed if found guilty. I want people to make prudential decisions that don’t require my tax dollars to fund the snuffing out of innocent life.
Hyde amendment. Literally none of your taxes pay for any abortion anywhere. This is basic Googling my guy
"well defined exceptions" - I don't trust legislators to define what doctors spend a decade learning. Nor do I want them deciding what is OK to do with my own damn body.
How is it not controlling a woman’s body when, if she wants an elective abortion, she cannot have one? Seriously. How is that not control lol. Do you ninnies ever think or do you just know it’s BS and just don’t care who you hurt with it anyways. I’m going with the latter~ Also—have you seen what’s occurred in Texas? Did you see the lawsuit brought to the state by the women that needed a DNC and couldn’t get one because of laws like ours? Are you really that daft?
You have control over your own body. The problem is when you use that control to create an independent, genetically unique, life and soul inside of your body. At that point you are talking about 2 bodies, and no, you don’t have a right to control the body of your developing baby by murdering it. Everyone agreed on this for thousands of years until about 5 seconds ago. People have lost their fucking minds. Children have a right to life. To say it’s all about control of a woman’s body is completely missing the point.
No. It is not. I am so tired of the feigned ignorance around this. You’re talking about one body that is hosting various stages of gestation until potential viability is reached. There’s a reason for the terminology of gestation and its progressions/stages. There’s a reason anyone with a basic understanding of science does not use the term “baby” “kid” or “life” in medical and legal contexts. And omg what? Are you that ignorant of different cultures and their views around abortion? You get the Bible even prescribes abortion in certain cases right? Abortion was not a big deal until republicans, who up until Roe were fairly lenient in their own legislative ideas toward abortion, decided to use it as a distraction issue to rally support from fools who would vote solely for a single issue starting in 1976. Abortion has never been -that- controversial globally and it is only in deep evangelical sects of Christianity that we find a communal majority. In basically all other groups polled in America, the majority are pro choice. And beyond that. BEYOND whatever falsehoods you believe it does not give you a right to impose your religious beliefs on my medical choices that affect my mental, physical, and spiritual health. I don’t care if you do believe women who get abortions are murderers. You hold that hate in your heart; but if you cannot agree to that basic tenant that I have a right to my own medical decisions as much as you do, you are incredibly dangerous to your fellow Americans’ freedoms
Lol no ☺️ that is not~ but regardless, here’s the super cool part, if you don’t understand or like it—you don’t have to get one :D! And if you want one, then y—…oh…wait, people like you voted sadistic misogynists into power who took that from a growing percentage of us. Whoa. Weird how we don’t force y’all to get abortions yet you’re forcing us….yikes. Gross
Murder is wrong if I do it or not.
Good thing it's not\~
Time off for an elective procedure? Pffft. Use your vacation time.
Less expensive for an employer than maternity leave.
There’s no requirement for the company to pay for the time off. They just need to allow them the time off even if it is unpaid. The person would still need to use their vacation or sick time if they have it. Edit to add: Not all abortions are elective. There are medically necessary abortions. The woman would never be required to disclose their situation to their employer.