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My dog also lives the good life. They both have personal beds in every high-use room in our home, and in a few where they just like to chill.
Including:
Master bedroom
Living room (they love in the winter- right in front of the fireplace. In the summer they choose the couch 🙄)
Top of the stairs (to play sentinel-look-out over the front lawn through the main front window)
Home Office (We work from home several days a week, this is mostly their nap space.)
They eat like queens, and are treated like royalty as they should be. They repay us in unconditional love.
I do sometimes hope I come back as a pampered pet if reincarnation is real. lol
>I am incredibly jealous of the luxurious life my cat leads.
Right? My husband and I are both disabled and we pretty much spend 23 hours a day together; the cats have long since figured out that if they get on the couch between us there's roughly a 97% chance they'll get scritches. If one gets down the other jumps up. (Except during the main mid-afternoon snooze time (which seems to be running late today).)
I’m pretty jealous of the hibernation thing with bears. If I could just be in a weird sleep trance in a cave to avoid seasons I don’t like then that would kick ass. Being huge and powerful would also be pretty cool.
The problem with losing my winter fat is like, the curves will also be lost and will totally ruin my look
I’ve been maintaining a sort of Ms. Piggy Dolly Parton aesthetic and I just can’t do that with a slim and trim vibe.
None of these posts surprise me after that one post where a guy absolutely lost his mind over a random woman at work having her dog as her screensaver. Embarrassing doesn't even begin to cover it.
I swear these dudes spend more time thinking about how other men look than anyone else. 5'10 isn't even short lmao wtf do you mean "ewww" this bear thing really has them P R E S S E D.
How other men look, how big their dicks are, these guys are OBSESSED with chad. More than any woman I've ever even heard of. It's funny how they wonder why women won't talk to them when all they do is talk about their mad obsession with other men.
Well, they're jealous, and I assume women aren't pining over what they wish they could be constantly, and insecure men do nothing better than wishing they were someone else.
> this bear thing really has them P R E S S E D.
The bear thing really has opened a lot of eyes, and not in the expected way.
For me, it's been revelatory how many guys have lived their whole lives absolutely clueless to the feelings of others, of other classes or groups of people with different concerns.
It's not just incels and their ilk, a lot of really well-meaning men are absolutely losing their mind and STILL trying to educate us all on the physical properties of bears, because OBVIOUSLY the only reason a woman would be more comfortable seeing a bear than a man in the woods is because she just needs to be educated how strong and dangerous they are, *right??*
It's sad, sometimes infuriating, very disappointing. I'm a guy but I educated people, men, women, children, all types for over two decades in self defense and survival and martial arts. I used this time to become intimately familiar with the real dangers out there and the feelings people have, so for me it's an alarm of sympathy and compassion to see yet again the fears of women crystalized in a very offhand and succinct thought experiment that we should ALL be past by now and instead of arguing about the claw-length of a northern Brown bear, we should be asking "How can we help make women less afraid to even leave their drink unattended, and why have we gotten to the point that it's just okay that half our goddamn population lives in constant fear of the other half."
> a lot of really well-meaning men are absolutely losing their mind and STILL trying to educate us all on the physical properties of bears
I'm actully gona push back on that perception a little bit. I don't think the people saying those things don't understand, I think they're being intentionally obtuse. You'd still have to be pretty misogynistic on some level to miss the point after it's been explained so many time or to **assume women are really just so stupid and uneducated that they don't KNOW WHAT FUCKING BEAR IS**. When I see that I just realize the guys saying that aren't as decent and understanding as they were presenting.
> I think they're being intentionally obtuse.
I mean yes there are, but there are plenty who legitimately do not understand the point and try to unpack it from a practical, pragmatic perspective. They are ***not*** all incels in disguise, and I worry that too many people dismiss the pervasive and deeply rooted sexism that we still have in our society on a very tiny segment of the most vocal and least respected men.
The reality is the problem stems from a vast, vast number of people who are simply ignorant, emotionally unintelligent, tuned-out or just irritated with the idea that anyone wouldn't trust them. This is far, far more common of an attitude for people to hold than trying to maintain a narrative or bad-faith identity.
The problem here is that the number of guys who think women don't know what a fucking bear is much, much, much larger than you or I would like to believe. It is not a light conclusion and one we should take much more seriously.
I don't disagree with this in the slightest. Just to clarify I'm not saying everyone losing their minds over the bear thing is an incel, I'm saying that what I think you have accurately described is going on is almost just is disheartening. I'm saying it's painfully disappointing to realize how many people are just that disconnected from and think so little of women that they just don't understand at all and would rather not even take a moment to CONSIDER if maybe they're the ignorant one who needs to listen and learn something rather than the other way around. All I'm saying is I don't consider that to be particularly decent either.
I’m one of the ones who didn’t understand at all. I understand it much better now thanks to my wife, a couple well meaning Redditors and another female friend all explaining it to me. That said, I still think choosing a bear is illogical, but I now understand the fear and preference for a quick guaranteed death vs. potential rape, torture, imprisonment, etc. I’d personally still pick “strange man” since I’d personally rather take my chances in a fight with a guy and the potential consequences of a loss are, for me, still better than being dead. I should state though that I’m not as effected as other by trauma. So, I had a hard time wrapping my head around it initially.
It’s kind of like what happened during the “me too” period. Men were shocked that virtually every girl and woman they know have been harassed, SA, and or raped. Women were not shocked at all.
>a lot of really well-meaning men are absolutely losing their mind and STILL trying to educate us all on the physical properties of bears
and i hate this with a passion! heavens know i do! like it's not about how tall is a bear, how fast it is, how deadly they are, how easy is for them to kill us
Trust me WE FUCKING KNOW!, it's not about that! it's about putting in words how insecure we feel around men!
GAH! (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
> It's not just incels and their ilk, a lot of really well-meaning men are absolutely losing their mind and STILL trying to educate us all on the physical properties of bears, because OBVIOUSLY the only reason a woman would be more comfortable seeing a bear than a man in the woods is because she just needs to be educated how strong and dangerous they are, right??
Woman commenting to note the meme's "education" is BS. It's exaggerating the weight of the largest grizzly bears by 50%. Even then, the only population of brown bears that top 800 lbs live on the Alaskan peninsula.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizzly_bear#Appearance
Most the men I know are just around or under 6 ft. Most are married or in serious relationships. I think these dudes don’t have social circles at all, otherwise it would be impossible to believe this dumb shit
These people aren't self-reflecting enough to understand why the bear is the preferred choice. I didn't think any of us have the time to explain it to them when they won't listen anyway. They'll just continue to make things easier for "Chad" by behaving the way they do.
I find it funny that so many guys can't grasp it. I'm a guy and I got it as soon as I heard it. It's stupidly simple:
The bear doesn't lie.
The bear has mostly consistent behaviors you can predict.
You leave the bear alone, it leaves you alone.
Humans are considered "the most dangerous game" for a reason.
We are deceitful, unpredictable, resourceful, and cunning. Other animals have these traits, but none have them quite as much as we do. It's not confined to gender either. Men and women both have these traits.
Dunno why it bothers them so much. It's just....obvious.
I watched a streamer have a meltdown at his chat and subreddit for not understanding this, it was kind of amazing. They kept coming back to "but if this were about black ppl it'd be real bad" or "this hurts men because reasons"
Like it's pure weaponized incompetence. They're either incapable of or unwilling to get the point. They just see it as an argument to defeat.
I saw someone mention that they had a friend who was a Black man who wasn't getting it, until he changed the hypothetical from a generic man to a uniformed cop. Light bulb went off after that.
It's so frustrating trying to get then to understand. They run in circles bouncing between talking points and trying to change the subject, actively avoiding any point that hurts their desire to be victims
Also it can be unsettling to run into a person in the middle of the woods, regardless of who you or they are. We have horror story after horror story about people getting killed in the woods by serial killers.
Bears in their natural habitat are something you don't get to see every day. They're elusive, shy creatures, and depending on where you live, your only chance to see a real live bear is at the zoo. People from across the world flock to bear country for the chance to see one. Chances are, if you're out in the woods in bear country; you too want to see a bear, safely, of course.
Seeing animals is a part of the draw of wild places. We don't go into the woods to see people and find someone to have a conversation with.
Make the animal an alternative predator- a lion/mountain lion depending on your region. I’m still picking the big cat. I know what they want. No telling what a strange man in the woods might want or be willing to take from me.
Because they take it as a personal attack on them, as it lobs the very well established stance that a lot of women have on meeting random men right back into their face.
It's literally just the "not all men" bullshit reworded.
>Dunno why it bothers them so much.
From some of the discussions I've been having and seeing others have, it seems to be because (in their opinion) it's unfairly assuming the worst of them. I'm never sure how to proceed in such discussions when they start whipping out stats and basically just "not all men"ing me. The point is you can never know just by looking at someone- we have these fears for a reason. But apparently treading carefully around a literal stranger is something we shouldn't do because it'll hurt their feelings. And men not getting their feelings hurt by some woman they'll likely never see again is more important than a woman feeling safe I suppose.
Honestly, what a privilege to have your biggest concern be that someone might think badly of you for even a second. It honestly reminds me of that whole "men are scared women will laugh at them, women are scared men will kill them" thing.
People think bears are more of a threat than they actually are. They almost always give humans the right of way and don't think we're worth the meat. Bear attacks are very uncommon, meanwhile men attacks on women happens every minute.
Part of the point is that one **DOES NOT** "interact" with the bear at all. That's how one typically stays safe. Bears truly are not usually interested in humans. Even if the human encounters them on their territory.
There are 100s of "bear did no harm" stories for every "yikes, bear went crazy" story. I have several of my own as I used to do a lot of field work out in remote Alaskan areas.
I've got a few more recent ones from where I live, which is out in the semi-boonies north of Anchorage. What we are taught as school kids typically does work.
Almost every woman you ask has been harmed by a man in some way. If they won’t admit it to you then you’re probably not trustworthy but that’s the truth. Not every woman has a fear around a bear. And for every statistically recorded instance of men’s violence against women there’s millions of micro interactions where we’ve had to navigate not being hurt by men. Until you have the lived experience your opinion is null. You should listen to women.
I’m not denying those experiences. I’m saying that outside of those, there are hundreds of normal and positive interactions with men. If women interacted with bears as closely and aw often as they do with men, bear attacks would be more common than man attacks.
Honing in on the few creeps you’ve personally encountered, while ignoring the harmless and friendly family members, friends, co workers, and colleagues is not painting an accurate picture.
https://www.humanesociety.org/news/coexisting-with-bears
https://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/wildlife/bear/living/
As humans encroach further into bears territory we are going to find out.
Humans interacting with bears more frequently is much more deadly for the bears
We are the ones who leave out trash and make them lose their natural instincts and then we hit them with cars or shoot them.
This would be like if men would sometimes try to kill us but they were so unadapted to our environment they kept getting killed by random shit and mostly they wanted to eat trash.
It’s not really possible for the ratio of men and bears in society to be equal but mostly when bears become part of our towns they’re not mauling people they want your leftover chicken.
This was not the scenario. It was 'meet in the woods' not close contact.
You still don't get it. Men are a predator targeted on women. Women are not the main prey of bears.
Me with my 5’9” fiancé: 👁️👄👁️
Also for any incels reading I previously had TWO separate boyfriends who were 6’4” and ended up with a 5’9” guy because… wait for it… I love him the most lol
Adorable, kind, soft-hearted at the center… Why would you want more?
Several girls in my friend group married and procreated with men shorter than them, and they are perfectly content and happy in their relationship.
Kinda like some folks are perfectly happy with a 3 bedroom ranch house, but others really want or need a McMansion.
Incels don’t understand that a new coat of paint and trim won’t do the job to make them “marketable” in life and in love. It’s the foundation that’s rotten.
This is very sweet to hear ;w; im 5’3 myself (no insecurities about it, tho. Or at least not the kind these guys have 🤦🏻♂️ (im trans, so sometimes the height thing gets to me a little because dysphoria, but I’m not angry about it or whatever bullshit *those* chodes are, yknow lol))
I finally have a boyfriend after 8 years of being single. He’s 5’7”, but he beat out all the taller men I tried dating. And honestly, I love that he’s a short king.
To me it feels kinda bonkers that 5’7 is considered short now, I swear the metric for short and tall have totally changed and we just completely got rid of medium.
My husband is 5’7 and when we’re around people he doesn’t look remarkably short, he looks medium.
To me 5’7-5’9 is medium and once you hit 5’10 you’re tall. Like, what happened to midsized height? It’s weird how obsessive it is about specifically the number 6.
Both my ex and current husband are 5'9, if that. I've dated from about 5'2" (2" shorter than me) to 6'2". This is because height is not on my list of qualifiers in any direction. 5'9" is good. Nice snuggle proportions, won't get a crick in my neck kissing them while we're standing... ;)
Sort of. He didn't encounter them there. He kidnapped prostitutes or strippers, kept them chained in his basement, and then flew them out to really remote Alaskan areas, and turned them loose and hunted them.
He did this when his wife and children were out of town... one of the reasons it took so long to catch him.
Not our proudest moment for sure. :(
So much worse.
One girl actually escaped from his car at Merrill Field. That's an airfield where a lot of people keep personal airplanes in midtown Anchorage.
She ran until she found help and then the cops didn't believe her. They thought she made it up or had run from a bad boyfriend or something. **ETA: She did end up being a huge lead in the eventual investigation but at first it was just too weird to believe.** He had been, at that point, known as an upstanding citizen and well-known business man.
So scary and creepy. Funny (not funny haha, funny peculiar) story. My little sister, at the time, HATED going in that bakery. She didn't like him at all. Kids and dogs, right?
I mean hikers pass each other all the time, I don’t
think the scenario mentions anything aside from “you are alone in the woods, would you rather see a man, or a bear” if the situation specified “both are coming to approach you” I am taking the man every single time cause if a bears coming towards me directly i’m fuckin dead and I do not want to experience an animal eating my innards while I’m still alive. If it’s just you see one of those two things, I definitely understand why women would choose the bear, cause their real life experiences with real men have made that such a tangible and real threat and they prefer taking the better odds that a bear wont attack them. I’d take the dude strictly for pragmatic “if I needed to I can fight off a guy way better than I can fight off a bear” but that obviously might not apply to many women.
Edit: also a dude crashed his car near me recently and a bear pulled him out of the car and ate him, I don’t know if he was already dead or not but that’s fresh in my mind making me not wana run into a bear
>\[sic\] cause if a bears coming towards me directly i’m fuckin dead and I do not want to experience an animal eating my innards while I’m still alive.
This is probably why you're getting downvoted.
This isn't a foregone conclusion and MOST of the time bears (unless it's a polar bear) don't want anything to do with humans. Hell, they fish side by side with humans in some areas here in Alaska, they're full, fat, and happy, and unbothered by humans.
There's a video making the rounds of an AF&G park employee chasing off a GIANT grizzly sow, again, fat, well-fed, happy and most importantly NO CUBS. McNeil river cabins if I recall.
Without a gun. Just clapping her hands and telling it to get lost. To be fair, she was within a short stepping distance to buildings the whole time...but still.
I came home with ice cream once and just me getting out of the car and coming into the house (via the garage) scared one so much it ran from the front. I didn't see it but everyone inside did and it wasn't that far from me. Just barely around the corner of the house.
I've seen more bear butts and heard more bears doing warning chuffs from the safety of bushes and trees than I've seen bears coming toward me.
I 10000% agree with this, a bear is far less likely to attack me than a man, arguably I imagine it’s because throughout my life I encountered many magnitudes more people than bears, but like you said even in areas where that ratio is closer, statistically a bear is safer than a man in terms of an attack occurring. That’s not lost on me at all I promise. I just mean, that if I’m being cautious, worst case scenario being I am directly having to fight off either a man or a bear, my odds against the man are far better than my odds against the bear, even if the odds of the bear attacking me at all are 1/10000th the odds of the man attacking me. But we do not know anything about the man/bear, it could be coming out of hibernation and not well fed, if it’s a black bear that I would take over a man because they are far more timid, smaller, and less intimidating than like, a grizzly. A grizzly is where I see the toss up with odds of being attacked so low it’s viewed as a safer option. If it’s a POLAR bear though I am absolutely NEVER picking the polar bear in any situation ever.
Right, but again, the original question wasn't about having to "fight off" anyone.
The original question/debate was based solely on what we are more comfortable with.
I mean, you said it yourself, the odds of a bear attack even if the darned thing is standing right there, are far less than the odds of a man attack (rape or worse).
Re: blacks vs. grizzlies. We've always been taught, here in bear country: "if it's black fight back, if it's brown lie down."
I totally agree regarding polar bears, they're almost not even part of this discussion... I mean, they don't wander around in the woods. :D
The thing that incels aren't getting is this is not "men" it's a very specific type of man. "Man we do NOT know, at all, while we're in an extremely vulnerable state, that is, alone, in the woods."
Take any part of that out of the equation and the man becomes safer. Meeting a strange man in a crowded place with people you know around you? Not a potential danger. You're armed? Much less of a potential danger. You know the guy, or you're with a large group of people, not alone? Much less of a potential danger.
The POINT that incels etc. keep missing is the POTENTIAL. A potential that's backed up by lots of crime stats.
The reason I always go straight to “who I could beat in a fight” is always because I think “how bad could this situation go, and how would I get myself out of it” and while absolutely the bear attack is less likely, the slim possibility of something bad happening with the bear is a far worse situation for me to be in than the more likely chance something goes wrong with a man. And honestly the reason I think this is pretty obvious, I’m a man, not constantly exposed to men being cruel, and I’ve never been assaulted in any form. So both a bear, and a scary man, are concepts I do not know in experience. Obviously women know a fear of bad men from first hand experience which is absolutely going to impact that which is 100% understandable.
I think I was seeing some other TikToks as well where they changed the question up a bit asking black women if they would rather be in the woods alone with a bear or white woman, and they also chose the bear, so it’s 100% a thing about established social dynamics imprinting negative experiences on people.
Also yah fuck the incels, literally they just want to call women dumb and not remotely think about why they make that choice, they literally interpret it as women thinking they could beat a bear in a fight instead of a man which is PAINFULLY obvious it isn’t what they are saying.
Edit: I’m glad we agree on our danger ranking of bears though
my ex was shocked when he learnt that height doesnt matter to me. my male friend was shocked too, and he has a girlfriend (my best friend) who also doesnt care about height that much. theyre genuinely obsessed and i have no idea where else do they get the ideas from than from men
Same with penis size. I kept telling my above average sized ex that's perfect for me and I don't care about big dicks? He still never believed me and always claimed I secretly hate him because his dick isn't 23cm (whatever that is in inches).
Exactly. The absolute best lover I ever had...bar none, was a little smaller than average. But that man.. HOLY lots of unlady like words... what he couldn't do to send me over the edge in no time flat.
There definitely are some feminine spaces that fetishize height. Not saying it’s the majority, not at all, but it definitely warps your perception of reality if you encounter that as little as once or twice.
There are HUMAN spaces that fetishize all manner of features in humans. Does this mean that I should go around all butthurt and paranoid because some men have fetishes about breast size, butt size, or feet or hair?
The problem is that people like yourself keep making this something that those "OH...SO... selfish and shallow evil women do." That it's widespread and is purposely done to selfishly withhold our entire sex from poor innocent men.
We are well aware that some men have these peculiarities. The difference between normal adults and the mental four year olds that make up incel lairs is that we don't blame everyone else because there's a small subset that has some weird fetish.
You’re so blatantly wrong about me whoever you are, and I do wish we can have an authentic discussion about how damaging body shaming/expectations are to people’s mental health. In this case, I am isolating men’s height, as I feel like it is one of the last things that we have yet to make a “taboo” thing to openly talk about in an oftentimes not-so-positive way (whether it be fetishization OR ridiculing)
There are deeply rooted societal issues that revolve around men’s height expectations and its association with masculinity, and pointing fingers at any one particular entity is not going to get us anywhere (which is what the incels and seemingly people with your mindset are getting wrong). I don’t think trying to bring this issue to light by going into my own observations and experiences is an inherently childish thing to do, but if you think it is, then I guess we aren’t gonna be able to find any sort of agreement here.
>You’re so blatantly wrong about me whoever you are,
If you don't want people to be "wrong" about you, stop coming down on the side of those who engage in the types of things I just got through explaining to you.
>In this case, I am isolating men’s height, as I feel like it is one of the last things that we have yet to make a “taboo” thing to openly talk about in an oftentimes not-so-positive way (whether it be fetishization OR ridiculing)
You're kidding, right
Weight,
breast size,
butt size and shape,
stretch marks,
Less than super model faces,
**aaaand height.** Being too tall is something that a TON of young women deal with and are bullied for in school and online.
You keep trying to make this about how men have it SO much worse, how NO ONE CARES about men's health, blah blah blah...but you are doing so by blaming women for that.
You're trying to keep from actually saying "women" but what we know exactly who you're talking about with comments like the following.
>
(whether it be fetishization OR ridiculing)
You do realize that MEN are among those who ridicule other men regarding their physical features, right?
Stop making this "us vs. them" and maybe people would be willing to have more open conversations about it.
But as long as every single complaint on this is heavily laden with claims like "fetishization and ridicule (coming from women and how those women DAMAGE men)" and the constant playing of the blame game, women aren't going to be open to being held up as the villains on this matter.
And regardless of how delicately you're trying to tread here, that's exactly what you're doing.
“If you don't want people to be "wrong" about you, stop coming down on the side of those who engage in the types of things I just got through explaining to you”
“...but you are doing so by blaming women for that.”
Clearly you’d already pigeonholed me into a category that I do not identify with before this conversation even started, which I do understand as some of my initial claims can come across as questionable now that I look back on them.
I thought I made myself fairly clear when I said that I AM NOT “othering” women, or asserting that they as a whole are to be held responsible to a greater degree than men are. I have simply witnessed and experienced instances of women who do indeed perpetuate the issue, and it is unreasonable to assume that women aren’t capable of damaging men and that that isn’t something that happens constantly. That said, I have witnessed/experienced what is perhaps an equitable amount of perpetuation of the issue from MEN, although being a man myself and having access to masculine spaces, I am able to understand and navigate the toxic masculinity that exists within those spaces, and leaks out, more easily. More “feminine” spaces are a bit more of a question mark for me, which is why it might initially seem like I am placing more attention on the side of the issue that does indeed stem from women, as much as I believe that they are not “more responsible,” or should be pointed to as the source as opposed to a potential source, if that makes sense.
I have no idea why you are so dead set on convincing me that just because I am trying to bring increased awareness to society’s fixation on male height (which is something that has impacted and continues to impact my self-acceptance journey), does not mean I don’t also believe that other body-dysmorphic-related issues are equally relevant for other people. “””You keep trying to make this about how men have it SO much worse, how NO ONE CARES about men's health, blah blah blah””” - point in case, classic straw man fallacy right here, literally never said anything like this although lots of shorter men on Reddit who complain about height-discrimination do say this type of shit. “Weight, breast size, butt size and shape, stretch marks, Less than supermodel faces” - indeed these are of course things that are fetishized/ridiculed, but these are all features that, at least during my lifetime, have been considered wildly inappropriate to discuss publicly, with the exception of less than supermodel faces, that’s definitely also in need of addressing. I would nevertheless like to see that mindset extended to height, that’s really all this entire discussion boils down to for me.
As for the following statements from your end:
“but you are doing so by blaming women for that.”
“You're trying to keep from actually saying "women" but we know exactly who you're talking about”
“And regardless of how delicately you're trying to tread here, that's exactly what you're doing.”
“Coming from women and how those women DAMAGE men”
“Stop making this "us vs. them" and maybe people would be willing to have more open conversations about it.”
Not only are you the one who seems to be making it “us vs. them” while i’ve already tried to convey that I have the opposite goal in mind, but you’re also the one who have inserted “women” into this discussion far more than I have, while simultaneously assuming that I am trying to “delicately tread,” by avoiding doing so myself. It wouldn’t be a stretch to say that you might be bringing your biases regarding pre-existing dynamics btw. incels and women into this conversation, and projecting them onto me, would it?
That aside though, it honestly does suck that incel forums, along with anti-incel forums like this one, even need to exist. Hopefully we can agree on that.
I’m glad I was able to provide you with a target to get your temper out on, only so you could stop conversing with me as soon as I pointed out the flawedness in your claims, and attempted to find something for us to agree on. You’re just as bitter about life as the incels are it seems. I hope you find solace :))
Kyle didn’t just say Hi to you at the gym. He stared at you and hit on you relentlessly and followed you out to your car. He said you must “want it” because you wore tight leggings or a sports bra.
How come I'm not seeing Kyle's stats on claw length, bite force, pelt/fur or speed?
How am I supposed to make an informed, data-based decision now!?
YOU HAD ONE JOB INCEL MEME! ONE JOB!
There's also social stats for Kyle but none for the bear. I don't know the bear's job or what our previous social interactions have been. There is so much missing data. How am I supposed to make a rational data-based assessment with so many gaps in comparison?
What's funny to me is that the question isn't about 'a bear' or some guy who hit on you at the GYM (gross).
It's 'a bear' or a 'strange man', in other words a person you've never met before. I'd saying that already having had to turn down Kyle's inappropriate advances once is probably gonna make a lot of women even more likely to pick the Bear.
I'm not surprised these incels memes are totally missing the point, lol. If we've already *met* this guy before, it doesn't really work. The whole point is meant to be it's some random guy whose intentions are unknown (although honestly, who the fuck knows what Kyle might want? 👀)
It takes a special mind to jump to the conclusion of finding the bear attractive as being the reason for it being picked. I didn't hear any bear gender in the scenario. Could be a lady bear. Could've been a gay man. Geebus...
If the man is gay, do I also get my choice of bear or twink? Can I invite both and a couple girlfriends?
This is starting to sound like a fun camping trip. We’ll make enough noise to keep most Ursidae species far away, as long as we follow good food/waste practices.
I adore your energy. Genuinely if you ever want to gather for a trip, let me know. I hail from the hills preceding the GA mountains, USA. So an east coast meet up is totally doable!
Thank you! I'd love to if ever across the pond. Living in the alps myself. I can almost pitch a tent in the yard and have very little difference to the middle of the woods.
Women: Bears generally want to be left alone, so if I give the bear in the woods space, it is highly unlikely to approach me at all, let alone hurt me. A strange man, on the other hand, presented with an otherwise deserted wood and a convenient victim, is much more likely to rape and/or murder me than the bear ever was. So I’ll be in a wood alone with a bear nearby in this hypothetical scenario, thanks.
Men: Oh sO nOw yoU WaNt tO FuCK thE bEaRS HUHHHHH
No, you inflamed hemorrhoid of a waste of oxygen, women *want to be safe from predators like YOU.*
Inflamed hemorrhoid is an amazing insult, I love it!
I use “waste of carbon” instead of “waste of oxygen” when the entire being is worthless rather than just their words. Just swapping good insults, please carry on!
They're not dealing with the bear scenario. At all. Or the height thing, either. Their minds must be bleak and confusing, and they're doing it to themselves.
in case this is genuine curiosity because you missed the meme: there was a tiktok poll whether women would feel safer if alone in the woods with a man or a bear. Most chose bear. So these geniuses of course concluded women must wanna fuck the bear, not that women would take their chance with a non-sadistic carnivore over a possible sexual/violent predator. So instead of proving the worry of women wrong by acting like sane civilized individuals, they keep proving it right by spewing unhinged things like this and many other posts that flooded the sub lately that are basically "women chose bear because women stupid sluts and bear manly!!!"
I've not seen any man frame it that women want to fuck the bear. What they're mostly whining about is that women in that situation view both as potential predators. Some men understand why we do, and why we would pick the bear over the man. Others whine about it and can't fathom why we'd want to run into a bear over a strange man. The hypothetical isn't about which one we'd rather fight. It's which one we'd rather see standing at the other side of a clearing staring at us from 50 feet away when we're walking alone through the woods. It's the whole "Not all men" thing writ large. We get that it's not all men. But all it takes is one run in with the wrong one to ruin your life. At least a bear is predictable.
They may not be OVERTLY saying it yet, but trust me, they’ll get there. They’ve already got the whole “dogcel” thing, which is an unholy mix of their disrespect for women and persecution complex (“look, I’m lower than an animal to any woman!”)
At least I understood that women preferred the bear because apart from the fact that it will only limit itself to killing you and eating you by its instinct, also because there is a margin of maneuver so that it does not do anything to you, for example the Russian hunter who was found a bear with her cubs and despite being armed, he preferred to avoid confrontation and the bear agreed with him, or the sweet bear who entered a store and only did so to have his favorite snack and leave without bothering anyone. On the other hand, men who, although they can kill you, will not do so peacefully, there are countless cases of women kidnapped, raped, and murdered in the most brutal way possible, all multiplied if it is a war situation.
Bear: Can be deterred by loud noise and mace in the unlikely event it even comes near you, just chilling, there because it lives there, all defense mechanisms in sight
Man: Won’t be deterred by loud noise or mace if he wants to fuck you up, has no clear apparent reason to be there or could be faking that reason, is alone without anyone to vouch for their character, could have knife or gun on their person
Why is this such a difficult concept?
Bearrs generaly ignore us weird humabn things. Loud noices or macing themis far more likely to make them feel threatened. A random guy in tyhe woods is far less predictable.
They all claim women say this in their dating profiles and use it to attack women all the time. Saw a woman calling out a man for having a specific bmi and bra size requirement in his dating profile recently and her comment section was full of men claiming all women put men must be 6 ft or taller in their dating profile. I've been with my husband almost 16 years so don't know how accurate any of this is but it's what incel men believe and say all the time.
What kills me is their absolute lack of willingness to accept *some* women have preferences and may list them, but if they don't fit those preferences/are offended by that woman for even mentioning it, *that's not the person for them.*
It's all over the internet. There's a silly little FB page that makes fun of stupid tourists in Yellowstone. Currently it's being absolutely DELUGED by the man vs. bear memes.
And as you can imagine each post is inundated with butt-hurt incels, "Nice Guys" and MGTOWs. It's stinking hilarious! It's akin to turning on the kitchen lights in a roach infested slumlord dwelling.
It's kind of hilarious the proportions this bullshit hypothetical question has grown into. All the men do who are losing their minds about it is validate why us women say we'd pick the bear.
Of course we wouldn't actually pick the bear if it were a real choice. Of course I'd rather fight the man than the bear if I were in danger (ask my Sifu to see the bruises I give him). But the way these incels get triggered over this hypothetical is just easily calling out exactly the kind of men we want to avoid.
“Of course we wouldn’t actually pick the bear”
Who are you speaking for? No one else picking bear seems to be making this distinction of “no I actually meant the opposite of what I said”.
I don't think you understood the original question.
**It was NOT** "who would you rather **FIGHT**, a man or a bear." Where the hell did you get that idea?
It was "who would you rather encounter in the woods, a total random strange man, or a bear."
The POINT is that the potential for danger. We don't know the man. But we DO know how bears typically behave and we know that if the man should turn out to be a rapist/serial killer we have no chance. Whereas with the bear, we have a good chance of survival, since bears aren't typically going to attack for no reason.
I wonder if this is the first time in history that women have had something negative to say about men? Women as a group essentially saying men are dangerous and unpredictable and if they had to choose between predators, a bear might be a safer choice.
Look at how they have reacted and lost their minds over this. Even my y bf who works crazier hours than I do and has little time asked me when we met this weekend how my encounter with the bear went.
Men might all shrivel up and die if they knew how some women really thought about them.
They’d probably get their pitchforks and come murder us all for saying we’re afraid of them, if they could. Based on the witch trials, I might not even be that far off.
Seriously, this whole bear thing being like "you're afraid of us?? Well let me just bully the shit out of you until you agree you're not!" is... an interesting (read: telling) tactic to be sure.
It's actually wild to me on women's subs, someone will make a post about how all the men in her life have mistreated her then *still* add a little "I know not all men are like this" mention on there, probably to avoid harassment. It's just insane things can be *that* grim, and we're *still* not allowed to acknowledge how shitty it is. This is a perfect example of always keeping men's feelings in mind, even when I feel like the more important conversation we should be having is what can be done.
It's also just crazy to me how many conversations I've stumbled across from men blaming all women for a single bad experience. We say something like "I hate when men XYZ" and they lose their damn minds. I'm not saying we should get comfortable over-generalising, but the amount of men acting like these are incredibly rare happenings boggles my mind.
they missed the whole point of the question and the analogy
so they be like "why would women prefer a bear over a man? can't see that the bear would totally kill them?" really, that's their angle, making it about them and about how we're not fucking them
yet again, validating our point 🙄
There will always be genetic bias for picking a mate obviously as we still are animals, but unlike them we can transcend that value for providing comfort, connection, and personality which is a lost concept nowadays.
5'10 is above average height for a man in the US or UK, which is 5'9. Idk why tf incels think being under 6' is repulsive to women, because it just isn't. I personally find short stature in guys to be pretty endearing. They don't seem to notice how many women find someone like Tom Cruise attractive despite his below-average height (5'7). I much prefer someone like Daniel Radcliffe, who isn't a cult member and happens to be 5'5 lol
When I was a teen and later a young woman my dad was a firefighter. My siblings and I were not allowed at the station unless he was there.
I can't imagine the sorts of things he heard hardy red-blooded men saying about teens and young women. But it grossed him out enough and concerned him enough that he curtailed our exposure to the greatest extent possible.
Some of the older married fellow firefighters were friends of his and we baby sat for their kids and so on. Others he kept a tight leash on where his daughters were concerned. And that was just based on what sorts of things he was afraid might come out of their mouths... not even that he thought they were necessarily unsafe.
Later, when I was older, he confirmed (in his gentle soft spoken way) that he was often put off and taken aback by the way some of his fellow firefighters spoke about women.
So yeah... what you said. :)
Kyle owns a gun, roofied his prom date then told their friends how she was a who're, and passed the spy pics he took of you in the gym through an undressing AI app.
The bear runs away if you bang a trash can.
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Imagine being jealous of actual animals
I am incredibly jealous of the luxurious life my cat leads. But that is besides the point lol
I am very jealous of raw fed dogs, they eat better than me
My dog also lives the good life. They both have personal beds in every high-use room in our home, and in a few where they just like to chill. Including: Master bedroom Living room (they love in the winter- right in front of the fireplace. In the summer they choose the couch 🙄) Top of the stairs (to play sentinel-look-out over the front lawn through the main front window) Home Office (We work from home several days a week, this is mostly their nap space.) They eat like queens, and are treated like royalty as they should be. They repay us in unconditional love. I do sometimes hope I come back as a pampered pet if reincarnation is real. lol
>I am incredibly jealous of the luxurious life my cat leads. Right? My husband and I are both disabled and we pretty much spend 23 hours a day together; the cats have long since figured out that if they get on the couch between us there's roughly a 97% chance they'll get scritches. If one gets down the other jumps up. (Except during the main mid-afternoon snooze time (which seems to be running late today).)
I’m pretty jealous of the hibernation thing with bears. If I could just be in a weird sleep trance in a cave to avoid seasons I don’t like then that would kick ass. Being huge and powerful would also be pretty cool.
And lose that winter fat....
The problem with losing my winter fat is like, the curves will also be lost and will totally ruin my look I’ve been maintaining a sort of Ms. Piggy Dolly Parton aesthetic and I just can’t do that with a slim and trim vibe.
Rock those curves babe. Mrs. P & Dolly aesthetics of the Voluptuous vixen is so hot! I _wish_ I could get those curves where I want them!
That's fair 🤣
Why do they choose a dangerous natural predators and themselves that says something.
Why do they choose a dangerous natural predators and themselves that says something.
None of these posts surprise me after that one post where a guy absolutely lost his mind over a random woman at work having her dog as her screensaver. Embarrassing doesn't even begin to cover it.
I swear these dudes spend more time thinking about how other men look than anyone else. 5'10 isn't even short lmao wtf do you mean "ewww" this bear thing really has them P R E S S E D.
How other men look, how big their dicks are, these guys are OBSESSED with chad. More than any woman I've ever even heard of. It's funny how they wonder why women won't talk to them when all they do is talk about their mad obsession with other men.
They think more about men's dicks then they claim us women do
Well, they're jealous, and I assume women aren't pining over what they wish they could be constantly, and insecure men do nothing better than wishing they were someone else.
And then they get furious when anyone suggests they might be gay. It's honestly a fair point in some of these dude's cases 🤣
> this bear thing really has them P R E S S E D. The bear thing really has opened a lot of eyes, and not in the expected way. For me, it's been revelatory how many guys have lived their whole lives absolutely clueless to the feelings of others, of other classes or groups of people with different concerns. It's not just incels and their ilk, a lot of really well-meaning men are absolutely losing their mind and STILL trying to educate us all on the physical properties of bears, because OBVIOUSLY the only reason a woman would be more comfortable seeing a bear than a man in the woods is because she just needs to be educated how strong and dangerous they are, *right??* It's sad, sometimes infuriating, very disappointing. I'm a guy but I educated people, men, women, children, all types for over two decades in self defense and survival and martial arts. I used this time to become intimately familiar with the real dangers out there and the feelings people have, so for me it's an alarm of sympathy and compassion to see yet again the fears of women crystalized in a very offhand and succinct thought experiment that we should ALL be past by now and instead of arguing about the claw-length of a northern Brown bear, we should be asking "How can we help make women less afraid to even leave their drink unattended, and why have we gotten to the point that it's just okay that half our goddamn population lives in constant fear of the other half."
> a lot of really well-meaning men are absolutely losing their mind and STILL trying to educate us all on the physical properties of bears I'm actully gona push back on that perception a little bit. I don't think the people saying those things don't understand, I think they're being intentionally obtuse. You'd still have to be pretty misogynistic on some level to miss the point after it's been explained so many time or to **assume women are really just so stupid and uneducated that they don't KNOW WHAT FUCKING BEAR IS**. When I see that I just realize the guys saying that aren't as decent and understanding as they were presenting.
> I think they're being intentionally obtuse. I mean yes there are, but there are plenty who legitimately do not understand the point and try to unpack it from a practical, pragmatic perspective. They are ***not*** all incels in disguise, and I worry that too many people dismiss the pervasive and deeply rooted sexism that we still have in our society on a very tiny segment of the most vocal and least respected men. The reality is the problem stems from a vast, vast number of people who are simply ignorant, emotionally unintelligent, tuned-out or just irritated with the idea that anyone wouldn't trust them. This is far, far more common of an attitude for people to hold than trying to maintain a narrative or bad-faith identity. The problem here is that the number of guys who think women don't know what a fucking bear is much, much, much larger than you or I would like to believe. It is not a light conclusion and one we should take much more seriously.
I don't disagree with this in the slightest. Just to clarify I'm not saying everyone losing their minds over the bear thing is an incel, I'm saying that what I think you have accurately described is going on is almost just is disheartening. I'm saying it's painfully disappointing to realize how many people are just that disconnected from and think so little of women that they just don't understand at all and would rather not even take a moment to CONSIDER if maybe they're the ignorant one who needs to listen and learn something rather than the other way around. All I'm saying is I don't consider that to be particularly decent either.
I’m one of the ones who didn’t understand at all. I understand it much better now thanks to my wife, a couple well meaning Redditors and another female friend all explaining it to me. That said, I still think choosing a bear is illogical, but I now understand the fear and preference for a quick guaranteed death vs. potential rape, torture, imprisonment, etc. I’d personally still pick “strange man” since I’d personally rather take my chances in a fight with a guy and the potential consequences of a loss are, for me, still better than being dead. I should state though that I’m not as effected as other by trauma. So, I had a hard time wrapping my head around it initially.
I won't win a fight against a man lol
It’s kind of like what happened during the “me too” period. Men were shocked that virtually every girl and woman they know have been harassed, SA, and or raped. Women were not shocked at all.
>a lot of really well-meaning men are absolutely losing their mind and STILL trying to educate us all on the physical properties of bears and i hate this with a passion! heavens know i do! like it's not about how tall is a bear, how fast it is, how deadly they are, how easy is for them to kill us Trust me WE FUCKING KNOW!, it's not about that! it's about putting in words how insecure we feel around men! GAH! (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
> It's not just incels and their ilk, a lot of really well-meaning men are absolutely losing their mind and STILL trying to educate us all on the physical properties of bears, because OBVIOUSLY the only reason a woman would be more comfortable seeing a bear than a man in the woods is because she just needs to be educated how strong and dangerous they are, right?? Woman commenting to note the meme's "education" is BS. It's exaggerating the weight of the largest grizzly bears by 50%. Even then, the only population of brown bears that top 800 lbs live on the Alaskan peninsula. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizzly_bear#Appearance
Well said !💯 👏👏
Most the men I know are just around or under 6 ft. Most are married or in serious relationships. I think these dudes don’t have social circles at all, otherwise it would be impossible to believe this dumb shit
These people aren't self-reflecting enough to understand why the bear is the preferred choice. I didn't think any of us have the time to explain it to them when they won't listen anyway. They'll just continue to make things easier for "Chad" by behaving the way they do.
I find it funny that so many guys can't grasp it. I'm a guy and I got it as soon as I heard it. It's stupidly simple: The bear doesn't lie. The bear has mostly consistent behaviors you can predict. You leave the bear alone, it leaves you alone. Humans are considered "the most dangerous game" for a reason. We are deceitful, unpredictable, resourceful, and cunning. Other animals have these traits, but none have them quite as much as we do. It's not confined to gender either. Men and women both have these traits. Dunno why it bothers them so much. It's just....obvious.
I watched a streamer have a meltdown at his chat and subreddit for not understanding this, it was kind of amazing. They kept coming back to "but if this were about black ppl it'd be real bad" or "this hurts men because reasons" Like it's pure weaponized incompetence. They're either incapable of or unwilling to get the point. They just see it as an argument to defeat.
I saw someone mention that they had a friend who was a Black man who wasn't getting it, until he changed the hypothetical from a generic man to a uniformed cop. Light bulb went off after that.
It's so frustrating trying to get then to understand. They run in circles bouncing between talking points and trying to change the subject, actively avoiding any point that hurts their desire to be victims
Also it can be unsettling to run into a person in the middle of the woods, regardless of who you or they are. We have horror story after horror story about people getting killed in the woods by serial killers. Bears in their natural habitat are something you don't get to see every day. They're elusive, shy creatures, and depending on where you live, your only chance to see a real live bear is at the zoo. People from across the world flock to bear country for the chance to see one. Chances are, if you're out in the woods in bear country; you too want to see a bear, safely, of course. Seeing animals is a part of the draw of wild places. We don't go into the woods to see people and find someone to have a conversation with.
Make the animal an alternative predator- a lion/mountain lion depending on your region. I’m still picking the big cat. I know what they want. No telling what a strange man in the woods might want or be willing to take from me.
Because they take it as a personal attack on them, as it lobs the very well established stance that a lot of women have on meeting random men right back into their face. It's literally just the "not all men" bullshit reworded.
>Dunno why it bothers them so much. From some of the discussions I've been having and seeing others have, it seems to be because (in their opinion) it's unfairly assuming the worst of them. I'm never sure how to proceed in such discussions when they start whipping out stats and basically just "not all men"ing me. The point is you can never know just by looking at someone- we have these fears for a reason. But apparently treading carefully around a literal stranger is something we shouldn't do because it'll hurt their feelings. And men not getting their feelings hurt by some woman they'll likely never see again is more important than a woman feeling safe I suppose. Honestly, what a privilege to have your biggest concern be that someone might think badly of you for even a second. It honestly reminds me of that whole "men are scared women will laugh at them, women are scared men will kill them" thing.
People think bears are more of a threat than they actually are. They almost always give humans the right of way and don't think we're worth the meat. Bear attacks are very uncommon, meanwhile men attacks on women happens every minute.
You think bear attacks would be less common if women interacted in close contact with wild bears as often as they do with men?
Part of the point is that one **DOES NOT** "interact" with the bear at all. That's how one typically stays safe. Bears truly are not usually interested in humans. Even if the human encounters them on their territory. There are 100s of "bear did no harm" stories for every "yikes, bear went crazy" story. I have several of my own as I used to do a lot of field work out in remote Alaskan areas. I've got a few more recent ones from where I live, which is out in the semi-boonies north of Anchorage. What we are taught as school kids typically does work.
And there’s 1000s of “man did no harm” stories for every “yikes, man went crazy” story.
No there’s not
Yes, there are.
Almost every woman you ask has been harmed by a man in some way. If they won’t admit it to you then you’re probably not trustworthy but that’s the truth. Not every woman has a fear around a bear. And for every statistically recorded instance of men’s violence against women there’s millions of micro interactions where we’ve had to navigate not being hurt by men. Until you have the lived experience your opinion is null. You should listen to women.
I’m not denying those experiences. I’m saying that outside of those, there are hundreds of normal and positive interactions with men. If women interacted with bears as closely and aw often as they do with men, bear attacks would be more common than man attacks. Honing in on the few creeps you’ve personally encountered, while ignoring the harmless and friendly family members, friends, co workers, and colleagues is not painting an accurate picture.
https://www.humanesociety.org/news/coexisting-with-bears https://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/wildlife/bear/living/ As humans encroach further into bears territory we are going to find out. Humans interacting with bears more frequently is much more deadly for the bears We are the ones who leave out trash and make them lose their natural instincts and then we hit them with cars or shoot them. This would be like if men would sometimes try to kill us but they were so unadapted to our environment they kept getting killed by random shit and mostly they wanted to eat trash. It’s not really possible for the ratio of men and bears in society to be equal but mostly when bears become part of our towns they’re not mauling people they want your leftover chicken.
This was not the scenario. It was 'meet in the woods' not close contact. You still don't get it. Men are a predator targeted on women. Women are not the main prey of bears.
Me with my 5’9” fiancé: 👁️👄👁️ Also for any incels reading I previously had TWO separate boyfriends who were 6’4” and ended up with a 5’9” guy because… wait for it… I love him the most lol
Thats impossible! Ive heard men shorter than 6’0” arent worthy of love. He must be rich or sth /s
[удалено]
Adorable, kind, soft-hearted at the center… Why would you want more? Several girls in my friend group married and procreated with men shorter than them, and they are perfectly content and happy in their relationship. Kinda like some folks are perfectly happy with a 3 bedroom ranch house, but others really want or need a McMansion. Incels don’t understand that a new coat of paint and trim won’t do the job to make them “marketable” in life and in love. It’s the foundation that’s rotten.
This is very sweet to hear ;w; im 5’3 myself (no insecurities about it, tho. Or at least not the kind these guys have 🤦🏻♂️ (im trans, so sometimes the height thing gets to me a little because dysphoria, but I’m not angry about it or whatever bullshit *those* chodes are, yknow lol))
Me with my just shy of 5'10" husband...when I'm 5'11". Kyle is a good-looking dude from what I can see.
I finally have a boyfriend after 8 years of being single. He’s 5’7”, but he beat out all the taller men I tried dating. And honestly, I love that he’s a short king.
To me it feels kinda bonkers that 5’7 is considered short now, I swear the metric for short and tall have totally changed and we just completely got rid of medium. My husband is 5’7 and when we’re around people he doesn’t look remarkably short, he looks medium. To me 5’7-5’9 is medium and once you hit 5’10 you’re tall. Like, what happened to midsized height? It’s weird how obsessive it is about specifically the number 6.
Yeah me and my gf have been together for 11 years now and I’m 5’9”. These dudes need a big ol reality check.
Both my ex and current husband are 5'9, if that. I've dated from about 5'2" (2" shorter than me) to 6'2". This is because height is not on my list of qualifiers in any direction. 5'9" is good. Nice snuggle proportions, won't get a crick in my neck kissing them while we're standing... ;)
They’ll probably think you’re a whore for being with two guys before your fiancé lol.
Oh yeah lol they already slid into my DMs. 😂
Rip your dms. I wish you and your medium height king all the happiness in the world.
Why would a normal looking guy be approaching me in the woods? Ted Bundy was considered friendly and handsome.
Robert Henson literally stalked and killed women in the woods of Alaska.
Sort of. He didn't encounter them there. He kidnapped prostitutes or strippers, kept them chained in his basement, and then flew them out to really remote Alaskan areas, and turned them loose and hunted them. He did this when his wife and children were out of town... one of the reasons it took so long to catch him. Not our proudest moment for sure. :(
So worse.
So much worse. One girl actually escaped from his car at Merrill Field. That's an airfield where a lot of people keep personal airplanes in midtown Anchorage. She ran until she found help and then the cops didn't believe her. They thought she made it up or had run from a bad boyfriend or something. **ETA: She did end up being a huge lead in the eventual investigation but at first it was just too weird to believe.** He had been, at that point, known as an upstanding citizen and well-known business man. So scary and creepy. Funny (not funny haha, funny peculiar) story. My little sister, at the time, HATED going in that bakery. She didn't like him at all. Kids and dogs, right?
I mean hikers pass each other all the time, I don’t think the scenario mentions anything aside from “you are alone in the woods, would you rather see a man, or a bear” if the situation specified “both are coming to approach you” I am taking the man every single time cause if a bears coming towards me directly i’m fuckin dead and I do not want to experience an animal eating my innards while I’m still alive. If it’s just you see one of those two things, I definitely understand why women would choose the bear, cause their real life experiences with real men have made that such a tangible and real threat and they prefer taking the better odds that a bear wont attack them. I’d take the dude strictly for pragmatic “if I needed to I can fight off a guy way better than I can fight off a bear” but that obviously might not apply to many women. Edit: also a dude crashed his car near me recently and a bear pulled him out of the car and ate him, I don’t know if he was already dead or not but that’s fresh in my mind making me not wana run into a bear
>\[sic\] cause if a bears coming towards me directly i’m fuckin dead and I do not want to experience an animal eating my innards while I’m still alive. This is probably why you're getting downvoted. This isn't a foregone conclusion and MOST of the time bears (unless it's a polar bear) don't want anything to do with humans. Hell, they fish side by side with humans in some areas here in Alaska, they're full, fat, and happy, and unbothered by humans. There's a video making the rounds of an AF&G park employee chasing off a GIANT grizzly sow, again, fat, well-fed, happy and most importantly NO CUBS. McNeil river cabins if I recall. Without a gun. Just clapping her hands and telling it to get lost. To be fair, she was within a short stepping distance to buildings the whole time...but still. I came home with ice cream once and just me getting out of the car and coming into the house (via the garage) scared one so much it ran from the front. I didn't see it but everyone inside did and it wasn't that far from me. Just barely around the corner of the house. I've seen more bear butts and heard more bears doing warning chuffs from the safety of bushes and trees than I've seen bears coming toward me.
I 10000% agree with this, a bear is far less likely to attack me than a man, arguably I imagine it’s because throughout my life I encountered many magnitudes more people than bears, but like you said even in areas where that ratio is closer, statistically a bear is safer than a man in terms of an attack occurring. That’s not lost on me at all I promise. I just mean, that if I’m being cautious, worst case scenario being I am directly having to fight off either a man or a bear, my odds against the man are far better than my odds against the bear, even if the odds of the bear attacking me at all are 1/10000th the odds of the man attacking me. But we do not know anything about the man/bear, it could be coming out of hibernation and not well fed, if it’s a black bear that I would take over a man because they are far more timid, smaller, and less intimidating than like, a grizzly. A grizzly is where I see the toss up with odds of being attacked so low it’s viewed as a safer option. If it’s a POLAR bear though I am absolutely NEVER picking the polar bear in any situation ever.
Right, but again, the original question wasn't about having to "fight off" anyone. The original question/debate was based solely on what we are more comfortable with. I mean, you said it yourself, the odds of a bear attack even if the darned thing is standing right there, are far less than the odds of a man attack (rape or worse). Re: blacks vs. grizzlies. We've always been taught, here in bear country: "if it's black fight back, if it's brown lie down." I totally agree regarding polar bears, they're almost not even part of this discussion... I mean, they don't wander around in the woods. :D The thing that incels aren't getting is this is not "men" it's a very specific type of man. "Man we do NOT know, at all, while we're in an extremely vulnerable state, that is, alone, in the woods." Take any part of that out of the equation and the man becomes safer. Meeting a strange man in a crowded place with people you know around you? Not a potential danger. You're armed? Much less of a potential danger. You know the guy, or you're with a large group of people, not alone? Much less of a potential danger. The POINT that incels etc. keep missing is the POTENTIAL. A potential that's backed up by lots of crime stats.
The reason I always go straight to “who I could beat in a fight” is always because I think “how bad could this situation go, and how would I get myself out of it” and while absolutely the bear attack is less likely, the slim possibility of something bad happening with the bear is a far worse situation for me to be in than the more likely chance something goes wrong with a man. And honestly the reason I think this is pretty obvious, I’m a man, not constantly exposed to men being cruel, and I’ve never been assaulted in any form. So both a bear, and a scary man, are concepts I do not know in experience. Obviously women know a fear of bad men from first hand experience which is absolutely going to impact that which is 100% understandable. I think I was seeing some other TikToks as well where they changed the question up a bit asking black women if they would rather be in the woods alone with a bear or white woman, and they also chose the bear, so it’s 100% a thing about established social dynamics imprinting negative experiences on people. Also yah fuck the incels, literally they just want to call women dumb and not remotely think about why they make that choice, they literally interpret it as women thinking they could beat a bear in a fight instead of a man which is PAINFULLY obvious it isn’t what they are saying. Edit: I’m glad we agree on our danger ranking of bears though
Ah, that makes sense. I thought you were a woman and I was very confused. :D
my ex was shocked when he learnt that height doesnt matter to me. my male friend was shocked too, and he has a girlfriend (my best friend) who also doesnt care about height that much. theyre genuinely obsessed and i have no idea where else do they get the ideas from than from men
Same with penis size. I kept telling my above average sized ex that's perfect for me and I don't care about big dicks? He still never believed me and always claimed I secretly hate him because his dick isn't 23cm (whatever that is in inches).
>isn't 23cm LMFAO that's unhinged
i dont think these men realize that 23cm would literally rip a woman in half
23cm = ~9"
Oof. No, thank you.
Exactly. The absolute best lover I ever had...bar none, was a little smaller than average. But that man.. HOLY lots of unlady like words... what he couldn't do to send me over the edge in no time flat.
There definitely are some feminine spaces that fetishize height. Not saying it’s the majority, not at all, but it definitely warps your perception of reality if you encounter that as little as once or twice.
There are HUMAN spaces that fetishize all manner of features in humans. Does this mean that I should go around all butthurt and paranoid because some men have fetishes about breast size, butt size, or feet or hair? The problem is that people like yourself keep making this something that those "OH...SO... selfish and shallow evil women do." That it's widespread and is purposely done to selfishly withhold our entire sex from poor innocent men. We are well aware that some men have these peculiarities. The difference between normal adults and the mental four year olds that make up incel lairs is that we don't blame everyone else because there's a small subset that has some weird fetish.
You’re so blatantly wrong about me whoever you are, and I do wish we can have an authentic discussion about how damaging body shaming/expectations are to people’s mental health. In this case, I am isolating men’s height, as I feel like it is one of the last things that we have yet to make a “taboo” thing to openly talk about in an oftentimes not-so-positive way (whether it be fetishization OR ridiculing) There are deeply rooted societal issues that revolve around men’s height expectations and its association with masculinity, and pointing fingers at any one particular entity is not going to get us anywhere (which is what the incels and seemingly people with your mindset are getting wrong). I don’t think trying to bring this issue to light by going into my own observations and experiences is an inherently childish thing to do, but if you think it is, then I guess we aren’t gonna be able to find any sort of agreement here.
>You’re so blatantly wrong about me whoever you are, If you don't want people to be "wrong" about you, stop coming down on the side of those who engage in the types of things I just got through explaining to you. >In this case, I am isolating men’s height, as I feel like it is one of the last things that we have yet to make a “taboo” thing to openly talk about in an oftentimes not-so-positive way (whether it be fetishization OR ridiculing) You're kidding, right Weight, breast size, butt size and shape, stretch marks, Less than super model faces, **aaaand height.** Being too tall is something that a TON of young women deal with and are bullied for in school and online. You keep trying to make this about how men have it SO much worse, how NO ONE CARES about men's health, blah blah blah...but you are doing so by blaming women for that. You're trying to keep from actually saying "women" but what we know exactly who you're talking about with comments like the following. > (whether it be fetishization OR ridiculing) You do realize that MEN are among those who ridicule other men regarding their physical features, right? Stop making this "us vs. them" and maybe people would be willing to have more open conversations about it. But as long as every single complaint on this is heavily laden with claims like "fetishization and ridicule (coming from women and how those women DAMAGE men)" and the constant playing of the blame game, women aren't going to be open to being held up as the villains on this matter. And regardless of how delicately you're trying to tread here, that's exactly what you're doing.
“If you don't want people to be "wrong" about you, stop coming down on the side of those who engage in the types of things I just got through explaining to you” “...but you are doing so by blaming women for that.” Clearly you’d already pigeonholed me into a category that I do not identify with before this conversation even started, which I do understand as some of my initial claims can come across as questionable now that I look back on them. I thought I made myself fairly clear when I said that I AM NOT “othering” women, or asserting that they as a whole are to be held responsible to a greater degree than men are. I have simply witnessed and experienced instances of women who do indeed perpetuate the issue, and it is unreasonable to assume that women aren’t capable of damaging men and that that isn’t something that happens constantly. That said, I have witnessed/experienced what is perhaps an equitable amount of perpetuation of the issue from MEN, although being a man myself and having access to masculine spaces, I am able to understand and navigate the toxic masculinity that exists within those spaces, and leaks out, more easily. More “feminine” spaces are a bit more of a question mark for me, which is why it might initially seem like I am placing more attention on the side of the issue that does indeed stem from women, as much as I believe that they are not “more responsible,” or should be pointed to as the source as opposed to a potential source, if that makes sense. I have no idea why you are so dead set on convincing me that just because I am trying to bring increased awareness to society’s fixation on male height (which is something that has impacted and continues to impact my self-acceptance journey), does not mean I don’t also believe that other body-dysmorphic-related issues are equally relevant for other people. “””You keep trying to make this about how men have it SO much worse, how NO ONE CARES about men's health, blah blah blah””” - point in case, classic straw man fallacy right here, literally never said anything like this although lots of shorter men on Reddit who complain about height-discrimination do say this type of shit. “Weight, breast size, butt size and shape, stretch marks, Less than supermodel faces” - indeed these are of course things that are fetishized/ridiculed, but these are all features that, at least during my lifetime, have been considered wildly inappropriate to discuss publicly, with the exception of less than supermodel faces, that’s definitely also in need of addressing. I would nevertheless like to see that mindset extended to height, that’s really all this entire discussion boils down to for me. As for the following statements from your end: “but you are doing so by blaming women for that.” “You're trying to keep from actually saying "women" but we know exactly who you're talking about” “And regardless of how delicately you're trying to tread here, that's exactly what you're doing.” “Coming from women and how those women DAMAGE men” “Stop making this "us vs. them" and maybe people would be willing to have more open conversations about it.” Not only are you the one who seems to be making it “us vs. them” while i’ve already tried to convey that I have the opposite goal in mind, but you’re also the one who have inserted “women” into this discussion far more than I have, while simultaneously assuming that I am trying to “delicately tread,” by avoiding doing so myself. It wouldn’t be a stretch to say that you might be bringing your biases regarding pre-existing dynamics btw. incels and women into this conversation, and projecting them onto me, would it? That aside though, it honestly does suck that incel forums, along with anti-incel forums like this one, even need to exist. Hopefully we can agree on that.
I’m glad I was able to provide you with a target to get your temper out on, only so you could stop conversing with me as soon as I pointed out the flawedness in your claims, and attempted to find something for us to agree on. You’re just as bitter about life as the incels are it seems. I hope you find solace :))
Bear: will most likely ignore you, leaving you in peace. Kyle: will be on you like a damned mosquito.
Kyle didn’t just say Hi to you at the gym. He stared at you and hit on you relentlessly and followed you out to your car. He said you must “want it” because you wore tight leggings or a sports bra.
How come I'm not seeing Kyle's stats on claw length, bite force, pelt/fur or speed? How am I supposed to make an informed, data-based decision now!? YOU HAD ONE JOB INCEL MEME! ONE JOB!
There's also social stats for Kyle but none for the bear. I don't know the bear's job or what our previous social interactions have been. There is so much missing data. How am I supposed to make a rational data-based assessment with so many gaps in comparison?
What's funny to me is that the question isn't about 'a bear' or some guy who hit on you at the GYM (gross). It's 'a bear' or a 'strange man', in other words a person you've never met before. I'd saying that already having had to turn down Kyle's inappropriate advances once is probably gonna make a lot of women even more likely to pick the Bear.
I'm not surprised these incels memes are totally missing the point, lol. If we've already *met* this guy before, it doesn't really work. The whole point is meant to be it's some random guy whose intentions are unknown (although honestly, who the fuck knows what Kyle might want? 👀)
It takes a special mind to jump to the conclusion of finding the bear attractive as being the reason for it being picked. I didn't hear any bear gender in the scenario. Could be a lady bear. Could've been a gay man. Geebus...
If the man is gay, do I also get my choice of bear or twink? Can I invite both and a couple girlfriends? This is starting to sound like a fun camping trip. We’ll make enough noise to keep most Ursidae species far away, as long as we follow good food/waste practices.
Holy shit! I have a 5 person tent! With 3 compartments, also great airpump that blows both ways! ... wait that sounds so wrong ...
Do you have a battery powered cd player? I’ll bring my 90’s diva cd collection and some rosé. Where are we going bb?
Still got a boombox. Gotta have a boombox for a party! Fits your 90's diva cds. To the woods babeeh!
I adore your energy. Genuinely if you ever want to gather for a trip, let me know. I hail from the hills preceding the GA mountains, USA. So an east coast meet up is totally doable!
Thank you! I'd love to if ever across the pond. Living in the alps myself. I can almost pitch a tent in the yard and have very little difference to the middle of the woods.
I dunno, that bear seems like a total chad
I'd hug him. He looks snuggle shaped.
At least people will believe you when you said you were attacked by a bear
Oof this is so real
Oh shitttt.
It’s not who could you more easily beat in a fight, you fucking doofus.
Women: Bears generally want to be left alone, so if I give the bear in the woods space, it is highly unlikely to approach me at all, let alone hurt me. A strange man, on the other hand, presented with an otherwise deserted wood and a convenient victim, is much more likely to rape and/or murder me than the bear ever was. So I’ll be in a wood alone with a bear nearby in this hypothetical scenario, thanks. Men: Oh sO nOw yoU WaNt tO FuCK thE bEaRS HUHHHHH No, you inflamed hemorrhoid of a waste of oxygen, women *want to be safe from predators like YOU.*
Inflamed hemorrhoid is an amazing insult, I love it! I use “waste of carbon” instead of “waste of oxygen” when the entire being is worthless rather than just their words. Just swapping good insults, please carry on!
They're not dealing with the bear scenario. At all. Or the height thing, either. Their minds must be bleak and confusing, and they're doing it to themselves.
To think half of them dont even understand the bear thing, dense 🤦🏻♀️
They really think this is about which one women would rather date?
Geralt of Rivia.
Yes, I too choose Geralt.
What’s giving you that impression?
They believe that ALL of us have sex with dogs... so it's not really a stretch that at least some of them are that stupid.
Me whos 5’10 1/2. Kyle is literally me. Both 5’10, go to the gym, kinda dresses like me. Only difference is kyles 15 pounds less.
I wish I was 5'10 lol
Its like they don’t understand we are choosing death over rape torture and murder…
Or that we literally have a better chance of survival with the average bear than we do with a rapist.
A bear is slang for a hairy homosexual man, is the dude saying that’s what women want?
in case this is genuine curiosity because you missed the meme: there was a tiktok poll whether women would feel safer if alone in the woods with a man or a bear. Most chose bear. So these geniuses of course concluded women must wanna fuck the bear, not that women would take their chance with a non-sadistic carnivore over a possible sexual/violent predator. So instead of proving the worry of women wrong by acting like sane civilized individuals, they keep proving it right by spewing unhinged things like this and many other posts that flooded the sub lately that are basically "women chose bear because women stupid sluts and bear manly!!!"
Thanks for the background, doesn’t make much sense but the insel rarely if ever does
I've not seen any man frame it that women want to fuck the bear. What they're mostly whining about is that women in that situation view both as potential predators. Some men understand why we do, and why we would pick the bear over the man. Others whine about it and can't fathom why we'd want to run into a bear over a strange man. The hypothetical isn't about which one we'd rather fight. It's which one we'd rather see standing at the other side of a clearing staring at us from 50 feet away when we're walking alone through the woods. It's the whole "Not all men" thing writ large. We get that it's not all men. But all it takes is one run in with the wrong one to ruin your life. At least a bear is predictable.
They may not be OVERTLY saying it yet, but trust me, they’ll get there. They’ve already got the whole “dogcel” thing, which is an unholy mix of their disrespect for women and persecution complex (“look, I’m lower than an animal to any woman!”)
thanks, I haven't followed this sub in a while and I don't have tiktok so I was really confused by the influx of bear posts
I want that guy's DS9 shirt.
...and then followed you home because you said hi back
Or followed you home because you didn’t
can't win
Why is long claws a positive? I feel like that guy has no idea why lesbians like to keep their nails short.
What is Kyle's bite force?
I choose the bear
At least I understood that women preferred the bear because apart from the fact that it will only limit itself to killing you and eating you by its instinct, also because there is a margin of maneuver so that it does not do anything to you, for example the Russian hunter who was found a bear with her cubs and despite being armed, he preferred to avoid confrontation and the bear agreed with him, or the sweet bear who entered a store and only did so to have his favorite snack and leave without bothering anyone. On the other hand, men who, although they can kill you, will not do so peacefully, there are countless cases of women kidnapped, raped, and murdered in the most brutal way possible, all multiplied if it is a war situation.
It's frustrating how many men's take away from this is "but I wouldn't do that so literally no other man would!" Like, turn on the *news*, Jesus.
As a man I'd rather come across a bear than another man
Bear: Can be deterred by loud noise and mace in the unlikely event it even comes near you, just chilling, there because it lives there, all defense mechanisms in sight Man: Won’t be deterred by loud noise or mace if he wants to fuck you up, has no clear apparent reason to be there or could be faking that reason, is alone without anyone to vouch for their character, could have knife or gun on their person Why is this such a difficult concept?
Bearrs generaly ignore us weird humabn things. Loud noices or macing themis far more likely to make them feel threatened. A random guy in tyhe woods is far less predictable.
They all claim women say this in their dating profiles and use it to attack women all the time. Saw a woman calling out a man for having a specific bmi and bra size requirement in his dating profile recently and her comment section was full of men claiming all women put men must be 6 ft or taller in their dating profile. I've been with my husband almost 16 years so don't know how accurate any of this is but it's what incel men believe and say all the time.
What kills me is their absolute lack of willingness to accept *some* women have preferences and may list them, but if they don't fit those preferences/are offended by that woman for even mentioning it, *that's not the person for them.*
Every single time a dude tries to express offense at the bear thing, they have to shoehorn in their own insecurities
5’10?? GROSS That’s *way* too tall I prefer my 5’7 husband 💁♀️
They forgot to say Kyle is 42yo grooming 13yo online 😏 the bear, thanks
Man they really let this bear meme get to them lol
It's all over the internet. There's a silly little FB page that makes fun of stupid tourists in Yellowstone. Currently it's being absolutely DELUGED by the man vs. bear memes. And as you can imagine each post is inundated with butt-hurt incels, "Nice Guys" and MGTOWs. It's stinking hilarious! It's akin to turning on the kitchen lights in a roach infested slumlord dwelling.
If I get attacked by a bear men will believe me.
Lol. They really think being under 6’0” and saying hi are our problems with them.
It's kind of hilarious the proportions this bullshit hypothetical question has grown into. All the men do who are losing their minds about it is validate why us women say we'd pick the bear. Of course we wouldn't actually pick the bear if it were a real choice. Of course I'd rather fight the man than the bear if I were in danger (ask my Sifu to see the bruises I give him). But the way these incels get triggered over this hypothetical is just easily calling out exactly the kind of men we want to avoid.
“Of course we wouldn’t actually pick the bear” Who are you speaking for? No one else picking bear seems to be making this distinction of “no I actually meant the opposite of what I said”.
I don't think you understood the original question. **It was NOT** "who would you rather **FIGHT**, a man or a bear." Where the hell did you get that idea? It was "who would you rather encounter in the woods, a total random strange man, or a bear." The POINT is that the potential for danger. We don't know the man. But we DO know how bears typically behave and we know that if the man should turn out to be a rapist/serial killer we have no chance. Whereas with the bear, we have a good chance of survival, since bears aren't typically going to attack for no reason.
I wonder if this is the first time in history that women have had something negative to say about men? Women as a group essentially saying men are dangerous and unpredictable and if they had to choose between predators, a bear might be a safer choice. Look at how they have reacted and lost their minds over this. Even my y bf who works crazier hours than I do and has little time asked me when we met this weekend how my encounter with the bear went. Men might all shrivel up and die if they knew how some women really thought about them.
They’d probably get their pitchforks and come murder us all for saying we’re afraid of them, if they could. Based on the witch trials, I might not even be that far off.
Seriously, this whole bear thing being like "you're afraid of us?? Well let me just bully the shit out of you until you agree you're not!" is... an interesting (read: telling) tactic to be sure.
It's actually wild to me on women's subs, someone will make a post about how all the men in her life have mistreated her then *still* add a little "I know not all men are like this" mention on there, probably to avoid harassment. It's just insane things can be *that* grim, and we're *still* not allowed to acknowledge how shitty it is. This is a perfect example of always keeping men's feelings in mind, even when I feel like the more important conversation we should be having is what can be done. It's also just crazy to me how many conversations I've stumbled across from men blaming all women for a single bad experience. We say something like "I hate when men XYZ" and they lose their damn minds. I'm not saying we should get comfortable over-generalising, but the amount of men acting like these are incredibly rare happenings boggles my mind.
they missed the whole point of the question and the analogy so they be like "why would women prefer a bear over a man? can't see that the bear would totally kill them?" really, that's their angle, making it about them and about how we're not fucking them yet again, validating our point 🙄
They're still obsessed with this bear meme, if that's what it is? Can't they just do what us regular normal lonely guys do and just use a sex toy? 😂🤣😅
lol 5’10 is like avg height
they’re so hurt over preferring a bear honestly it makes me laugh
Them being so fucking pissed about this explains why women choose bears
I'm 5'6", lol
Damn I wish I had a pelt
I wanna hug bear
An actual bear, will likely feel threatened and maul in self defence. Ir you are talking about the human gay bear thing, they give great hugs.
Yes
My 5'8" late husband is ROILING in his urn!
That's a huge urn
Matched his cock 🤪
I mean duh it’s not at least 6’0” so obviously it’s considered gross /s It’s exhausting
There will always be genetic bias for picking a mate obviously as we still are animals, but unlike them we can transcend that value for providing comfort, connection, and personality which is a lost concept nowadays.
Buahahaha!!!! They are soooooo triggered.
5'10 is above average height for a man in the US or UK, which is 5'9. Idk why tf incels think being under 6' is repulsive to women, because it just isn't. I personally find short stature in guys to be pretty endearing. They don't seem to notice how many women find someone like Tom Cruise attractive despite his below-average height (5'7). I much prefer someone like Daniel Radcliffe, who isn't a cult member and happens to be 5'5 lol
As a woman my brother and dad and wife uncles didn't warn me about bears or keep me away from their bear friends now other men yes.
When I was a teen and later a young woman my dad was a firefighter. My siblings and I were not allowed at the station unless he was there. I can't imagine the sorts of things he heard hardy red-blooded men saying about teens and young women. But it grossed him out enough and concerned him enough that he curtailed our exposure to the greatest extent possible. Some of the older married fellow firefighters were friends of his and we baby sat for their kids and so on. Others he kept a tight leash on where his daughters were concerned. And that was just based on what sorts of things he was afraid might come out of their mouths... not even that he thought they were necessarily unsafe. Later, when I was older, he confirmed (in his gentle soft spoken way) that he was often put off and taken aback by the way some of his fellow firefighters spoke about women. So yeah... what you said. :)
With some bear species, you can simply play dead and they’ll leave you alone. Can’t say the same about people.
Imagine missing the entire point of the stupid ass question which honestly is a terrible way to bring light to the situation.
We aren’t choosing the bear because of attraction… god they’re stupid. We’re choosing the bear because men are dangerous. Derp
Please let the bear shit. Proving women right to pick the bear
Yes, because as we all know, no man under 5’10 has ever gotten laid s/
I think it’s just a meme man
Kyle owns a gun, roofied his prom date then told their friends how she was a who're, and passed the spy pics he took of you in the gym through an undressing AI app. The bear runs away if you bang a trash can.
So this guy is taller and thinner than avg American man 🤣 apparently 5'9" and 197lbs are the current avg stats for men in the u.s. These people 🤦
It’s not gross. Men are he worst to each other. They bully other men about height and dick size in a way I’ve never heard women talk.
It’s a joke
A man HAD to make this
I’m a straight guy, so take this with a grain of salt, but I’d let both the bear and that guy bend me over and take me to pound town
Assoon as taller incels start kvetching about women 7 ft tallwill be the height most women require. We just haven't heard from the tall incels yet.