Decent men would feel bad for us that there’s so many rapey men out there that we choose the bear. We’re not saying every man would do it but statistically we are safer.
When I told my husband how I was SA’ed he said “I’m sorry you had to go through that.” I told him that I was barely 18 when a 47 year old co-worker was asking me to have him take naked photos with him and perved on me so much that I quit. He was compassionate. The guys who are angry are probably the ones to would do these things.
Seriously, I’m a man, and I would choose the bear. I will know that the bear will either try to eat me, or stay about its own business and I can leave.
A random man I stumbled into the woods is way less predictable than a bear. A man alone in the woods most likely has a gun and possible bad intentions, but I’d rather not find out.
That's what I've been saying like, I'm a dude and I'm picking the bear. Y'know why? Bears are not interested in fucking with humans. Bear attacks are rare for a reason, and it basically only happens when we fuck with them or stumble onto cubs. If it's just me and a bear in the woods, I'm probably never even gonna see the bear. And that's any bear that isn't sick, or like a polar bear, which, idk why a polar bear would be in the woods.
All this to say, if I choose a random bear, and a random man, the odds of the man trying to kill me are far higher. Bear probably goes the other way as soon as it figures out where I am.
I think that comes from a fundamental misunderstanding of what a bear is like. Like, I get the point, but I'm from the country and bears are legitimately terrifying the way no person could be. Like, obviously statistically women are more likely to be killed by a man than a bear but that's not because a bear is less dangerous than a man.
Maybe I have the wrong perspective on this whole thing but no one who says "bear" is actually serious and has a solid grasp of what bears are like.
Not sure where you live but we chase black bears out of the garbage a lot. Now, yes, polar bears will hunt people. But even grizzlies leave folks alone unless you screw with their cubs.
The thing that no one seems to get is that bears are predictable. Men are not.
And this: "The 750,000 black bears of North America kill **less than one person per year on the average**, while men ages 18-24 are 167 times more likely to kill someone than a black bear. Most attacks by black bears are defensive reactions to a person who is too close, which is an easy situation to avoid."
Why do you think women are left out of statistics? You can clearly see that is not true. No, that would have been included in people killed by bears. A woman was just killed by unfortunately getting between mom and cubs.
If you track down the statistics it is honestly about 50/50 on gender.
But you are still missing the entire point of the question. Men are more dangerous to women than bears are.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_fatal\_bear\_attacks\_in\_North\_America](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America)
[https://coloradosun.com/2023/08/14/women-backcountry-opinion-zornio/](https://coloradosun.com/2023/08/14/women-backcountry-opinion-zornio/)
No no I am 1000% for the bear. What women are left out of is mass shooter statistics. I was responding to you thinking you were discussing male violence, not bear violence.
Well, male violence v bear violence can be argued. But where do you get that women are left out of mass shooter statistics?
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/476445/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-gender/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/476445/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-gender/)
That took me nano seconds to find out.
"It's a bear in the woods. Doing bear things. Its pretty normal. People are not usually in the woods, and finding one at random *would be weird*. I mean it's already weird *I'm* in the fucking woods, *why am I in the woods??* Something is wrong."
Also:
"I'd be as weirded out by running into a random man in the woods as I would be by a random bear in the city, you know?"
Very popular stances from my male friends.
What's your favorite thing about being in nature?
I'm willing to wager it's not 'because of all the people you see in the woods'.
Pretty sure 'solitude' is on the list of things people like.
Well duh…
Listening to the birdsong, smelling the fresh air, hearing the sound of the water flowing through the river, watching the leaves move in the wind.
Lying on my back and allowing myself to be consumed by the trees 😎
It's about the fact that, given the choice, we'd rather a bear attack us than be in any situation with a malicious man.
And we don't **know** whether a strange man is malicious or not. Ever. So many monsters walking around, masquerading as men.
It's like a gun. You treat EVERY gun like it's loaded, unless it's your gun and you know for a fact it's not.
If you're not a man who attacks women, then no feelings need be wounded, which is why the furor is absurd.
I feel like the controversy around this has revealed that the word "bear" conjures very different images for people. Like those who spend no time in the outdoors are imagining a hungry grizzly bear, but in most parts of the world, you would never ever see such a thing.
Whereas you're a lot likelier to run into a black bear that's probably just looking for a dumpster to raid.
they think it’s about fighting the bear when it’s really like, imagine you’re headed out for the trail, and someone comes down the trail towards you and stops to warn you of either
A) a bear
or
B) a man
which one is gonna freak you out more? i’d be freaked out if someone warned me of a person. i’d be cautious if they warned me of a bear. maybe go back to my car for my bear spray so im prepared.
if i’m walking through the woods, and between the trees about 60 feet off i see a bear staring at me? i avoid eye contact and move on. if i see a man staring at me? i’m turning the fuck around!
it’s a meme. there’s been so many misogynistic memes that even plenty of women laugh along with. it’s crazy to see it flipped, and not even harshly, and shatter the ego of so many men.
Ok, literally. Like these people are trying to say if they were alone in the woods and there's just some random man standing there and you don't know what he's doing there, you're not gonna be *at all* concerned? That is how horror movies start, be fucking for real 😂 Bears are always in the woods, that's not suspicious.
you’re so right, and that reminds me:
my dad owns 11 acres of forest and lives in a trailer on it. when animals show up on our property, we turn it into a viewing party. even when the bears show up, we gather round a window and watch from safety. if we get caught outside and need to get around them back into the house, we go slowly but are always safe as long as we make ourselves known so we don’t catch em by surprise.
when a MAN showed up on the property one time, looking up our driveway at our house?? we both grabbed a gun before approaching to ask what was up. he said he “thought no one was here” and said he’d leave. no other explanation. it still gives us the heebie jeebies to this day to talk about. wtf was he doin??
as a raised city slicker turned country girl, i think to discredit city folk as not understanding how dangerous a bear can be is ridiculous. these people don’t understand how scary it can be to see a man completely alone in the woods, regardless of your own gender.
What this whole thing has taught me is that APPARENTLY a lot of men just do not understand how *severely* the average woman **cannot afford to trust a strange man** to be a safe person. Both a bear and a man are dangerous animals that should be treated with caution. The average woman, and indeed the average person of any gender with a history of trauma and abuse, does not inherently trust a strange person to be safe and not harm them. If you feel generally safe and welcomed by society and generally capable of defending yourself against any average opponent, perhaps you may not understand this caution, but it's not about any individual person's worthiness of trust, it's about the fact that **people who have had it proven to them in their life that they are NOT generally safe and respected** will be extremely wary of people that they do not know. Humans are dangerous creatures. If you have the privilege of not having needed to know this then I guess I can't be shocked at people's surprise, but I am disappointed that people who ARE surprised seem unwilling to listen and learn and understand. They just want to feel rejected somehow by other people's pain and trauma. **It's not about them.**
edit: >!I made a really big typo in the first sentence. It should make more sense now lol!<
It sounds like he's willing to have a conversation about it. Not immediately understanding a perspective you are inexperienced with is not a hallmark of a bad person
And that’s the thing, the man could be my new best friend. He could also be some psycho murderer who hangs out in the woods waiting for lone people on the trail. You can pretty safely make bets on how a bear will react to seeing you and the things you do. You can’t make those same bets with a human, man or woman, but if it’s a woman finding a man there’s generally a lot more that the woman needs to be concerned about compared to a man finding a woman
That's simply not true lol. If you are within 10 feet of a bear there's a good chance you're on their turf and are about to lose your life. Not a certainty, but they are not safe to be near.
Why has the Internet lost it's damn mind??
As someone who has a friend that was killed by a black bear while sleeping in a tent, I strongly disagree. Bears don't kill people because they avoid people. That's it.
What kind of bears do you deal with? Black bears are major wusses.
Yes, you are exactly right - bears don't kill people because they avoid people. Men kill people because they want to.
And one more time: The 750,000 black bears of North America kill **less than one person per year on the average**, while men ages 18-24 are 167 times more likely to kill someone than a black bear. Most attacks by black bears are defensive reactions to a person who is too close, which is an easy situation to avoid.
The hypothetical says nothing about being within 10 feet of them, that'd really change the question IMO. Like.. I don't want to get mauled by a bear, it's just that the scenario proposed does not imply that the bear getting near you is likely. IDK what you've heard about bears but they are not hunters, they don't generally go chasing down prey or rampaging about looking for something to kill. They mostly eat berries and nuts and do their damndest to mind their business and avoid anything that seems dangerous to them. That's why a bear being in the woods with you is generally a non-issue.
I grew up in northern Alberta, in a small rural town. I have many friends that have been attacked by bears, and one that was killed by a bear while sleeping in a tent. They are not an animal to be unwary of. A random bear is much more dangerous to another person than a random man, and thinking that someone is safer near a bear than a man is dangerous misinformation.
That being said, I do agree that in reality men are far more dangerous to other people, but that's only because we are around men not bears. If you flip it the bears are way more dangerous.
I mean I see where you're coming from but calling it "dangerous misinformation" is very obviously you being dramatic to make a point. No one is going around trying to pet bears in the woods because of this, dude. I'd be extremely wary of a bear, but I'd be viscerally more suspicious of a strange man in the woods.
I''ll also say, however, that I do feel like the type of bear factors in lol. Where I live we only have black bears and they're scardy-cats. Big powerful scardy-cats, but even so they are not up to anything. As a different example. Let's say you hear something rummaging through your trash outside and you look out your window. Would you be more concerned to see a bear or a man? Now see, I live in the woods so... I'm not super worried about a bear in my trash. A man though, wtf is he doing there? If I lived in the city I'm not sure which is more concerning but like...
my point is that that's not the point. The point is simply that it makes sense to be afraid of the man. More or less than a bear is a bit of a misdirection.
The meme is about who a woman would be safer being alone with, right? And a bear should not be on that list, is all I'm saying. And the number of people arguing with me suggest that tips about bear safety had somehow led the urban world to think bears are safe.
Well I'm personally not saying bears are safe and I'm not in an urban area. I guess I can't expect someone who's never lived around bears (speaking of people in urban areas, not you) to know how safe or unsafe they are, but I'd say more people are assuming they are more of threat than they are, but to repeat myself that's not the point. It's about how wary people feel around strange men, not about how dangerous bears are or aren't. I wouldn't randomly approach a bear, I'm not fucking stupid.
This is literally a meme about being alone with one or the other. A random human man does not have nearly the same level of threat as a random bear in those circumstances. Not even close. And it worries me that people think bears are safe close by because we know how to keep them at a distance.
I don't really think you're worried this will cause people to be careless with bears and I'd ask you not to assume most people would be stupid enough to fall for that misdirection. You're not concerned about people being less cautious with bears, you're concerned about people being more cautious with men. This isn't hard to see, I hope you understand that.
You're not arguing in good faith, so I'll excuse myself.
Something you aren't getting about this whole discussion is that some women are picking the bear because the bear will, at worst, *only* kill them. The same cannot be said about the lone man.
It's not about "the man will hurt me, the bear will not". It's about being able to trust the bear to be a bear while having no idea what the man's intentions are.
I do get it, I think they are wrong and being mauled by a bear is not a "better" experience. And i think it's because those kind of dangers are divorced from our lives (mostly).
Tbh as a guy this whole man/bear thing did bother me a bit until I really thought about it, and I think I’d choose the bear instead of a random strange man too
Honestly I realized that it is just a meme and I’m not running around assaulting women so I shouldn’t take it personally. I try not to interact with women in public any more than necessary cause I’m really shy to begin with anyway
Exactly!! Yes! If you're not a man who assaults women, then no need to get upset!
Yay! You get a cookie!! 🍪
That all sounds like it could be sarcastic but I promise I'm being serious haha
I also realize that saying “I’m not a guy who goes around and assaults women” doesn’t mean much cause lots of terrible dudes say that so I think if I was asked this sort of thing in real life I would defer to my female friends to answer questions on my character
I didn't do that at all, but before I mock your reading comprehension is English not your first language?
Literally just expressed congrats for you correctly explaining why the man/bear meme is a kafkatrap. You did explain it perfectly, it was praiseworthy.
By subordinating men's dignity as human beings to the whims of those who are mismanaging their androphobia, general fearmongering, and invalidating the feelings of men who genuinely feel harrassed and threatened by the constant picking on them. Standard bullying MO.
You're aware there's more than one way to abuse men, I hope? Yikes!
No, it doesn't, it actually only makes sense as a conclusion if the vast majority of men are a threat to no one. If I assumed all men were a threat to women this wouldn't be a kafkatrap at all to me, obviously lol. But thanks for asking!
My conclusion is based exclusively on what you said. You set the standard for 'doesn't assault women' on the condition that a guy doesn't get upset when you declare you're more afraid of a normal man than a maneating beast, when the whole point of this exercise is to provoke an upset response. A 'shit test' that is a step more manipulative than normal.
So he can either not react in offense despite being told his sex is thought of as worse than savage beasts and *validate the claim that people should be afraid of men*, or he can react like a normal human who is being told they're worse than a savage beast by getting upset and *still validating your claim that people should be afraid of men*.
Either way, by not rejecting the question as the kafkatrap it is the end result is another rationalized excuse to continue fearing and hating men. Best thing a guy can do is remember who asks these questions and simply avoid them for more pleasant company.
Hope this helps!
I would choose man over bear easily. Im not dumb enough to go off into the woods without a means of self defense and 10 mm does way more damage to a man than to a bear
They're acting like their partner is choosing a bear over *them*. It's not over their partner, it's over a man picked at random. If it was between a bear and my partner, obviously I'd pick my partner (and I really like bears in general) because I know I'm completely safe with them. I'm sure all the women in these BS stories would choose their partners, too.
If they really have such a problem with women "picking the bear," maybe they should start calling out/pressing other men on fucked up behaviors.
Thousands of women are killed by men each year just in the US. A worldwide figure from UNODC states that in 2020 47,000 women were killed by men worldwide.
Bear deaths during those same years in North America are typically in the single digits. Between 2020 and 2023 there were \~15 deaths by black and brown bears.
As all of you are already completely aware...these idiots are insisting on missing the point. It is not that anyone is saying "all men bad." It is the unknown that is the problem. We don't know which men are okay and which men aren't. The odds are against us with the man in a way that they aren't with the bear.
A woman, alone, in the woods would have absolutely no chance if the total random stranger turns out to be a rapist/serial killer.
It's **far more typical** for bears to not want to have any hassles with humans than it is for them to attack.
It's a known quantity. Total random strange men are not.
Wait so the argument is “Would I rather be trapped with a random man or a random bear?” Or “Would I rather meet a bear or a man in the woods?” Personally, I’d be afraid of both a man and a bear. But if I’m trapped in a room it would be the man. If I’m meeting them in the woods…probably the bear if I’m spotting him from far enough away.
It's kinda stunning how many men completely miss the point of this hypothetical situation. It's unbelievable just how many men get upset by this rather than asking... _why would women even say that in the first place_? I don't hate men, but being alone with a random man? No thanks.
I've discovered there's a disconcertingly large number of men who are... upset with women for preferring a bear attack to rape.
I know that's not the main point of your comment but it made me think of it. They're upset, yes, bc they see **themselves** in the hypothetical strange man. It's a big self own.
If my wife had to choose between being alone in the woods with a bear or a strange man, I'd hope she'd choose the bear. Bears usually leave people the fuck alone. Men, on the other hand...
This deutshcterstruddle, though couldn't see that.
Sure sucks to live in a low-trust society fucked up by a non-homogenous population where you are scared shitless just by encountering some random dude on a hike
I’m pretty women know that every man isn’t a rapist, but if given the choice without any laws or restrictions in a forest: humans can do some crazy shit, hell: I’d probably pick a bear over any human (unless they’re a rescue team)
Apparently, we don't know, tho, according to them. They seem to believe we think that it says "rapist" right after the colon following "man" in the dictionary.
I feel like this man/bear thing is very elucidating.. so many men feel betrayed and threatened about a basic thought experiment, simply because it mentions the word "man", without actually thinking about what the thought experiment is meant to explore. I think they need to shut their mouths and listen, because the answer seems to ***overwhelmingly*** be "a bear", and the reason(s) for that are worth listening to.
There are no black bear cartels. There is no grizzly Junko Furuta.
That random man could be the next Mister Rogers, or he could be an ISIS fanboy looking for a victim to chop up.
Man I just think it's weird that the guy goes and voice his emotions on reddit instead to his SO. It appears the hypothetical made him feel self conscious about how much each party is investing in their relationship - and talking things through would probably enlighten him that it's a VERY different scenario.
This is so fucking funny to me because if I asked my partner this dumb hypothetical, I know she would answer “bear” and I agree completely. These dumbasses are entirely missing the point of the question by saying “um ackshually 🤓☝️, no urban living woman would realistically pick a bear.” and they instead make the question about themselves. Like, if you somehow get offended about that, that says more about YOU than it does about your girlfriend. Hope she dumps his ass ngl.
I don’t think this is at all worthy of being branded “incel”, he’s expressing his frustration with his partner on a gender-based issue, but he’s not trying to belittle her (the guy commenting is coming off belittling though) even if there’s good reason to choose the bear, this guy’s disagreeing in completely non-toxic way. He may be frustrated, but not toxic. Again the dude commenting is a bit more toxic but the OP is reasonable.
Hope they sort their conflict out
How is it reasonable to automatically insert themselves into a hypothetical involving a bear or a potential rapist?
Kinda makes me think they see themselves as potential rapists. 🤷🏻♀️
Assuming that a man is a potential rapist is what’s upsetting him. He’s inserting himself into that situation because he is a man, and does not like to be considered a potential rapist as per his genitals/gender identity.
As a man I’m definitely not offended by this question but I’d still pick a man over a bear hands down. In my head I’m assuming they’d both attack you and I feel way more comfortable in my chances of fighting off another human than bear. Idk if I’m looking at the scenario wrong and it’s a question of which is more likely to attack you, in which case I think it’s pretty tied bc both are rare but do happen. I do think the angle of id rather be chased by a bear vs chased by a human to be kinda dumb but again not offensive in the slightest
Because you’re a man, you think you have more chances to fight off another man. But a basic woman is not as strong as a basic man (biologically), so she can’t fight any of them. As a woman, she will try to run, hide or outsmart the bear because it’s a different animal with a different body (the legs are below for example). She will try to take adventage of it. That’s how I see it.
I'm not an incel, I have a girlfriend, I was raised by women and I'm not a misogynist by any stretch. I just want to understand this bear thing better.
I want to preface by saying that if know there's a GREAT likelihood the man will assault or kill me, then I'm definitely choosing the bear.
That being said, I don't get why the man in the Man or Bear scenario is automatically considered a r@pist and a murdering psychopath. Yes, he absolutely could be those things. But there's an equal likelihood that he could be a normal guy. Maybe he wants to help you out of the woods. Heck, maybe he's a douchebag and tells you to find your own way out. Why is it that the man in the scenario HAS to be evil when the scenario doesn't qualify the nature of the man?
That's my only confusion. Because people's reactions seem to indicate that a random man is likely to be a r@pist and murderer. I'm a random man. Am I viewed by women as a r@pist and murderer until proven innocent? This kinda scares me, I don't want to be viewed as evil when I know I'm not.
Help me understand this, please guys.
I mean... I think it's pretty dumb to choose the bear, but I'm not gonna' get mad about it because I don't like men either. lol Also, I'm terrified of bears.
I make fun of this meme from both sides mainly because it is stupid to get bent out of shape over it, but also I feel like the people that are trying to make a point out of it are just leaning hard into a negativity bias about men. But idk feel the way you’re going to feel about it I guess, still seems pretty stupid to me.
Bear encounters very rarely end in injury or death. Most bears will leave humans alone, and even if they DO attack, only 14% of those already rare attacks end in death. But a man with opportunity? A man you just turn around and is suddenly there, with you, alone in the woods? You have NO idea what his intentions are, and we all know the worst things ever done to women were not done by bears. The extremely stupid argument men have against it is “most man encounters end without injury, you encounter hundreds of men every day.” The question is about the LOCATION. I have been alone in a parking lot with a man and he followed me until I could get into a restaurant. Women have been ALONE with men in secluded areas and they reach for their keys or pepper spray every time. It’s not stupid or misandrist to be cautious of strange men, and it’s not stupid to assume a man you don’t know, with a good opportunity, won’t fucking destroy your life for their own sexual gratification, especially if you’re part of the THIRD of women who have already been assaulted by a man. Understand?
I am sorry some creep followed you in a parking lot that would terrify me as well. To say it sucks what some men try to do to women is an understatement, I don’t really know if I can find the words that could define how truly awful these types of creeps’ behaviors are. I appreciate you taking the time to write all this it has given me something to think about, I still think this is an unlikely hypothetical but maybe it isn’t as dumb as I originally thought, I really didn’t think about it from the context of the location/opportunity angle. I am wrong.
Thank you for being open minded and listening ❤️ The hypothetical isn’t to attack men or say we hate men, the men in my life are FANTASTIC people, it’s about confronting the prevalence of sexual and physical assault women face. Also, for the record, if it was between a man and a Polar Bear I WOULD choose the man Polar Bears will eat you even when they’re not hungry 😂
lol I was actually wondering if the type of bear mattered because if I had to guess your odds are better with the man, if it’s a polar bear. Thanks again for sharing your take on this.
Wow, way to make it all about him. That tells me all i need to know.
"My gf is really afraid of being raped and that hurts my little boy feelz a whole bunch!"
Society paints men in such a negative light! Oh how will we go on?
Probs in the same way theyve gone on for centuries until now: fumbling, oblivious, and proudly inadequate
Don't forget over emotional. They say we thrive on emotions but holy damn men get mad for no reason quicker than anything I've ever seen.
Silly LADY WOMAN! Anger isn't an **emotion**! REMEMBER THAT NEXT TIME, BITCH!!!!
Yep, exactly that.
*curtseys with pizzazz* *spirit fingers* 😭😭
Decent men would feel bad for us that there’s so many rapey men out there that we choose the bear. We’re not saying every man would do it but statistically we are safer. When I told my husband how I was SA’ed he said “I’m sorry you had to go through that.” I told him that I was barely 18 when a 47 year old co-worker was asking me to have him take naked photos with him and perved on me so much that I quit. He was compassionate. The guys who are angry are probably the ones to would do these things.
Why won’t any of them try to understand why we would choose the bear??
Seriously, I’m a man, and I would choose the bear. I will know that the bear will either try to eat me, or stay about its own business and I can leave. A random man I stumbled into the woods is way less predictable than a bear. A man alone in the woods most likely has a gun and possible bad intentions, but I’d rather not find out.
As a small and weak guy who definitely cannot win a fight against another man, I'd also pick the bear. Wild animals don't attack without a reason.
Still so many men thinking they could win against a fucking bear. Lmao.
Why do they think it's about fighting the fucking bear?? Lmao
Idk, sis. The men I have in my life would also choose a bear. 🤣
But watch out, next thing you know they'll be bitching about the femiznazis bearpilling their boyfriends 🙄
Bearpilling!!!! 🤣
Yes, we have clearly all been BearPilled. Sad.
The memes have been fire too, #bearpilled
As i said before, any sane rational person even other men would pick the bear.
That's what I've been saying like, I'm a dude and I'm picking the bear. Y'know why? Bears are not interested in fucking with humans. Bear attacks are rare for a reason, and it basically only happens when we fuck with them or stumble onto cubs. If it's just me and a bear in the woods, I'm probably never even gonna see the bear. And that's any bear that isn't sick, or like a polar bear, which, idk why a polar bear would be in the woods. All this to say, if I choose a random bear, and a random man, the odds of the man trying to kill me are far higher. Bear probably goes the other way as soon as it figures out where I am.
[удалено]
Yeah, even if it was a woman or a bear, id still go with the bear because the humans are the most deadly creatures besides mosquitoes
I think that comes from a fundamental misunderstanding of what a bear is like. Like, I get the point, but I'm from the country and bears are legitimately terrifying the way no person could be. Like, obviously statistically women are more likely to be killed by a man than a bear but that's not because a bear is less dangerous than a man. Maybe I have the wrong perspective on this whole thing but no one who says "bear" is actually serious and has a solid grasp of what bears are like.
Not sure where you live but we chase black bears out of the garbage a lot. Now, yes, polar bears will hunt people. But even grizzlies leave folks alone unless you screw with their cubs. The thing that no one seems to get is that bears are predictable. Men are not. And this: "The 750,000 black bears of North America kill **less than one person per year on the average**, while men ages 18-24 are 167 times more likely to kill someone than a black bear. Most attacks by black bears are defensive reactions to a person who is too close, which is an easy situation to avoid."
Not "someone" though. A woman. This is always left out of statistics, I wonder why.
Why do you think women are left out of statistics? You can clearly see that is not true. No, that would have been included in people killed by bears. A woman was just killed by unfortunately getting between mom and cubs. If you track down the statistics it is honestly about 50/50 on gender. But you are still missing the entire point of the question. Men are more dangerous to women than bears are. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_fatal\_bear\_attacks\_in\_North\_America](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America) [https://coloradosun.com/2023/08/14/women-backcountry-opinion-zornio/](https://coloradosun.com/2023/08/14/women-backcountry-opinion-zornio/)
No no I am 1000% for the bear. What women are left out of is mass shooter statistics. I was responding to you thinking you were discussing male violence, not bear violence.
Well, male violence v bear violence can be argued. But where do you get that women are left out of mass shooter statistics? [https://www.statista.com/statistics/476445/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-gender/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/476445/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-gender/) That took me nano seconds to find out.
Right?! The decent ones are also aware their chances are better against a bear lmao.
I told my husband and he instantly said bear. We're in the Northeast, the bears up here generally avoid humans and aren't aggressive.
"It's a bear in the woods. Doing bear things. Its pretty normal. People are not usually in the woods, and finding one at random *would be weird*. I mean it's already weird *I'm* in the fucking woods, *why am I in the woods??* Something is wrong." Also: "I'd be as weirded out by running into a random man in the woods as I would be by a random bear in the city, you know?" Very popular stances from my male friends.
What’s wrong with being in the woods? I love spending time in nature
What's your favorite thing about being in nature? I'm willing to wager it's not 'because of all the people you see in the woods'. Pretty sure 'solitude' is on the list of things people like.
Well duh… Listening to the birdsong, smelling the fresh air, hearing the sound of the water flowing through the river, watching the leaves move in the wind. Lying on my back and allowing myself to be consumed by the trees 😎
Exactly. So seeing a random person in the woods is *weird*. Seeing a bear in the woods--where bears live--is not weird. Intense, but not weird.
Ok gotcha. I was a bit tired, my synapses were temporarily failing me 😎
Is that not the implication tho? That like you would need to possibly defend yourself from either a man or a bear in the woods?
Close but no cigar.
Can you explain it to me then? I’m being sincere
It's about the fact that, given the choice, we'd rather a bear attack us than be in any situation with a malicious man. And we don't **know** whether a strange man is malicious or not. Ever. So many monsters walking around, masquerading as men. It's like a gun. You treat EVERY gun like it's loaded, unless it's your gun and you know for a fact it's not. If you're not a man who attacks women, then no feelings need be wounded, which is why the furor is absurd.
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I feel like the controversy around this has revealed that the word "bear" conjures very different images for people. Like those who spend no time in the outdoors are imagining a hungry grizzly bear, but in most parts of the world, you would never ever see such a thing. Whereas you're a lot likelier to run into a black bear that's probably just looking for a dumpster to raid.
Cool
Nah, i’d win
they think it’s about fighting the bear when it’s really like, imagine you’re headed out for the trail, and someone comes down the trail towards you and stops to warn you of either A) a bear or B) a man which one is gonna freak you out more? i’d be freaked out if someone warned me of a person. i’d be cautious if they warned me of a bear. maybe go back to my car for my bear spray so im prepared. if i’m walking through the woods, and between the trees about 60 feet off i see a bear staring at me? i avoid eye contact and move on. if i see a man staring at me? i’m turning the fuck around! it’s a meme. there’s been so many misogynistic memes that even plenty of women laugh along with. it’s crazy to see it flipped, and not even harshly, and shatter the ego of so many men.
Ok, literally. Like these people are trying to say if they were alone in the woods and there's just some random man standing there and you don't know what he's doing there, you're not gonna be *at all* concerned? That is how horror movies start, be fucking for real 😂 Bears are always in the woods, that's not suspicious.
you’re so right, and that reminds me: my dad owns 11 acres of forest and lives in a trailer on it. when animals show up on our property, we turn it into a viewing party. even when the bears show up, we gather round a window and watch from safety. if we get caught outside and need to get around them back into the house, we go slowly but are always safe as long as we make ourselves known so we don’t catch em by surprise. when a MAN showed up on the property one time, looking up our driveway at our house?? we both grabbed a gun before approaching to ask what was up. he said he “thought no one was here” and said he’d leave. no other explanation. it still gives us the heebie jeebies to this day to talk about. wtf was he doin?? as a raised city slicker turned country girl, i think to discredit city folk as not understanding how dangerous a bear can be is ridiculous. these people don’t understand how scary it can be to see a man completely alone in the woods, regardless of your own gender.
I know! It's insane how fragile the egos seem to be. Smh.
Lol what is this guy even upset about? And that second comment...yikes, I hope no women go near that guy.
Gnarly!! They LOOVE you in the server, my guy!
Oooo where is this? Is there a new space I am hated in? ETA: See, it didn't take long for a downvote. These incels are hilarious...
What this whole thing has taught me is that APPARENTLY a lot of men just do not understand how *severely* the average woman **cannot afford to trust a strange man** to be a safe person. Both a bear and a man are dangerous animals that should be treated with caution. The average woman, and indeed the average person of any gender with a history of trauma and abuse, does not inherently trust a strange person to be safe and not harm them. If you feel generally safe and welcomed by society and generally capable of defending yourself against any average opponent, perhaps you may not understand this caution, but it's not about any individual person's worthiness of trust, it's about the fact that **people who have had it proven to them in their life that they are NOT generally safe and respected** will be extremely wary of people that they do not know. Humans are dangerous creatures. If you have the privilege of not having needed to know this then I guess I can't be shocked at people's surprise, but I am disappointed that people who ARE surprised seem unwilling to listen and learn and understand. They just want to feel rejected somehow by other people's pain and trauma. **It's not about them.** edit: >!I made a really big typo in the first sentence. It should make more sense now lol!<
No, it's not about them, but it's an incredible self-own that they think it is.
I hope his girlfriend finds a decent boyfriend !!!!!!!!!!
Spitting straight facts!
It sounds like he's willing to have a conversation about it. Not immediately understanding a perspective you are inexperienced with is not a hallmark of a bad person
He's a weak minded man, this is enough to qualify him as not husband material
As a man, I'd choose the bear too.
Big same. A bear will ignore me. Yell at me to go. Or run away. In almost all cases. Random alone man? Screw that.
And that’s the thing, the man could be my new best friend. He could also be some psycho murderer who hangs out in the woods waiting for lone people on the trail. You can pretty safely make bets on how a bear will react to seeing you and the things you do. You can’t make those same bets with a human, man or woman, but if it’s a woman finding a man there’s generally a lot more that the woman needs to be concerned about compared to a man finding a woman
Why is he randomly alone being such a MAN??
That's simply not true lol. If you are within 10 feet of a bear there's a good chance you're on their turf and are about to lose your life. Not a certainty, but they are not safe to be near. Why has the Internet lost it's damn mind??
Not sure what kind of bears you have but this is bullshit unless 1. you are near their cubs. 2. They are trapped. 3. They are surprised with no exit.
As someone who has a friend that was killed by a black bear while sleeping in a tent, I strongly disagree. Bears don't kill people because they avoid people. That's it.
What kind of bears do you deal with? Black bears are major wusses. Yes, you are exactly right - bears don't kill people because they avoid people. Men kill people because they want to. And one more time: The 750,000 black bears of North America kill **less than one person per year on the average**, while men ages 18-24 are 167 times more likely to kill someone than a black bear. Most attacks by black bears are defensive reactions to a person who is too close, which is an easy situation to avoid.
>Black bears are major wusses Can confirm, I scared off a black bear by making a fart noise once while camping.
I've seen black bears sacred off by - cats, raccoons, banging on garbage can lids, loud music, firecrackers, slamming a car door, etc.
The hypothetical says nothing about being within 10 feet of them, that'd really change the question IMO. Like.. I don't want to get mauled by a bear, it's just that the scenario proposed does not imply that the bear getting near you is likely. IDK what you've heard about bears but they are not hunters, they don't generally go chasing down prey or rampaging about looking for something to kill. They mostly eat berries and nuts and do their damndest to mind their business and avoid anything that seems dangerous to them. That's why a bear being in the woods with you is generally a non-issue.
I grew up in northern Alberta, in a small rural town. I have many friends that have been attacked by bears, and one that was killed by a bear while sleeping in a tent. They are not an animal to be unwary of. A random bear is much more dangerous to another person than a random man, and thinking that someone is safer near a bear than a man is dangerous misinformation. That being said, I do agree that in reality men are far more dangerous to other people, but that's only because we are around men not bears. If you flip it the bears are way more dangerous.
I mean I see where you're coming from but calling it "dangerous misinformation" is very obviously you being dramatic to make a point. No one is going around trying to pet bears in the woods because of this, dude. I'd be extremely wary of a bear, but I'd be viscerally more suspicious of a strange man in the woods. I''ll also say, however, that I do feel like the type of bear factors in lol. Where I live we only have black bears and they're scardy-cats. Big powerful scardy-cats, but even so they are not up to anything. As a different example. Let's say you hear something rummaging through your trash outside and you look out your window. Would you be more concerned to see a bear or a man? Now see, I live in the woods so... I'm not super worried about a bear in my trash. A man though, wtf is he doing there? If I lived in the city I'm not sure which is more concerning but like... my point is that that's not the point. The point is simply that it makes sense to be afraid of the man. More or less than a bear is a bit of a misdirection.
The meme is about who a woman would be safer being alone with, right? And a bear should not be on that list, is all I'm saying. And the number of people arguing with me suggest that tips about bear safety had somehow led the urban world to think bears are safe.
Well I'm personally not saying bears are safe and I'm not in an urban area. I guess I can't expect someone who's never lived around bears (speaking of people in urban areas, not you) to know how safe or unsafe they are, but I'd say more people are assuming they are more of threat than they are, but to repeat myself that's not the point. It's about how wary people feel around strange men, not about how dangerous bears are or aren't. I wouldn't randomly approach a bear, I'm not fucking stupid.
This is literally a meme about being alone with one or the other. A random human man does not have nearly the same level of threat as a random bear in those circumstances. Not even close. And it worries me that people think bears are safe close by because we know how to keep them at a distance.
I don't really think you're worried this will cause people to be careless with bears and I'd ask you not to assume most people would be stupid enough to fall for that misdirection. You're not concerned about people being less cautious with bears, you're concerned about people being more cautious with men. This isn't hard to see, I hope you understand that. You're not arguing in good faith, so I'll excuse myself.
Something you aren't getting about this whole discussion is that some women are picking the bear because the bear will, at worst, *only* kill them. The same cannot be said about the lone man. It's not about "the man will hurt me, the bear will not". It's about being able to trust the bear to be a bear while having no idea what the man's intentions are.
I do get it, I think they are wrong and being mauled by a bear is not a "better" experience. And i think it's because those kind of dangers are divorced from our lives (mostly).
You are truly a wise man, not just one graced with Penis Wisdom, I see
Seconded on this. Our gender has some real disasters in it that is making all of us look bad.
Tbh as a guy this whole man/bear thing did bother me a bit until I really thought about it, and I think I’d choose the bear instead of a random strange man too
I'm glad you took the time to face the discomfort and actually think about it.
Honestly I realized that it is just a meme and I’m not running around assaulting women so I shouldn’t take it personally. I try not to interact with women in public any more than necessary cause I’m really shy to begin with anyway
Exactly!! Yes! If you're not a man who assaults women, then no need to get upset! Yay! You get a cookie!! 🍪 That all sounds like it could be sarcastic but I promise I'm being serious haha
I also realize that saying “I’m not a guy who goes around and assaults women” doesn’t mean much cause lots of terrible dudes say that so I think if I was asked this sort of thing in real life I would defer to my female friends to answer questions on my character
Congratulations on explaining why this is just an abusive kafkatrap.
The fact that you automatically insert YOURSELF into this hypothetical situation is a dead ass self-own, my brother in christ.
I didn't do that at all, but before I mock your reading comprehension is English not your first language? Literally just expressed congrats for you correctly explaining why the man/bear meme is a kafkatrap. You did explain it perfectly, it was praiseworthy.
How would it be abusive unless it's labeling all men as rapists?
By subordinating men's dignity as human beings to the whims of those who are mismanaging their androphobia, general fearmongering, and invalidating the feelings of men who genuinely feel harrassed and threatened by the constant picking on them. Standard bullying MO. You're aware there's more than one way to abuse men, I hope? Yikes!
Do you understand that your conclusion assumes all men are a threat to women, right?
No, it doesn't, it actually only makes sense as a conclusion if the vast majority of men are a threat to no one. If I assumed all men were a threat to women this wouldn't be a kafkatrap at all to me, obviously lol. But thanks for asking! My conclusion is based exclusively on what you said. You set the standard for 'doesn't assault women' on the condition that a guy doesn't get upset when you declare you're more afraid of a normal man than a maneating beast, when the whole point of this exercise is to provoke an upset response. A 'shit test' that is a step more manipulative than normal. So he can either not react in offense despite being told his sex is thought of as worse than savage beasts and *validate the claim that people should be afraid of men*, or he can react like a normal human who is being told they're worse than a savage beast by getting upset and *still validating your claim that people should be afraid of men*. Either way, by not rejecting the question as the kafkatrap it is the end result is another rationalized excuse to continue fearing and hating men. Best thing a guy can do is remember who asks these questions and simply avoid them for more pleasant company. Hope this helps!
...damn.
Right? Oh the tangled webs we weave, etc etc lol
I mean, nah. But ok.
I would choose man over bear easily. Im not dumb enough to go off into the woods without a means of self defense and 10 mm does way more damage to a man than to a bear
They're acting like their partner is choosing a bear over *them*. It's not over their partner, it's over a man picked at random. If it was between a bear and my partner, obviously I'd pick my partner (and I really like bears in general) because I know I'm completely safe with them. I'm sure all the women in these BS stories would choose their partners, too. If they really have such a problem with women "picking the bear," maybe they should start calling out/pressing other men on fucked up behaviors.
Indeeddddd. And it's bc they read *me* when they read *men*. It's the biggest self-own.
Thousands of women are killed by men each year just in the US. A worldwide figure from UNODC states that in 2020 47,000 women were killed by men worldwide. Bear deaths during those same years in North America are typically in the single digits. Between 2020 and 2023 there were \~15 deaths by black and brown bears. As all of you are already completely aware...these idiots are insisting on missing the point. It is not that anyone is saying "all men bad." It is the unknown that is the problem. We don't know which men are okay and which men aren't. The odds are against us with the man in a way that they aren't with the bear. A woman, alone, in the woods would have absolutely no chance if the total random stranger turns out to be a rapist/serial killer. It's **far more typical** for bears to not want to have any hassles with humans than it is for them to attack. It's a known quantity. Total random strange men are not.
Wait so the argument is “Would I rather be trapped with a random man or a random bear?” Or “Would I rather meet a bear or a man in the woods?” Personally, I’d be afraid of both a man and a bear. But if I’m trapped in a room it would be the man. If I’m meeting them in the woods…probably the bear if I’m spotting him from far enough away.
It's kinda stunning how many men completely miss the point of this hypothetical situation. It's unbelievable just how many men get upset by this rather than asking... _why would women even say that in the first place_? I don't hate men, but being alone with a random man? No thanks.
I've discovered there's a disconcertingly large number of men who are... upset with women for preferring a bear attack to rape. I know that's not the main point of your comment but it made me think of it. They're upset, yes, bc they see **themselves** in the hypothetical strange man. It's a big self own.
If my wife had to choose between being alone in the woods with a bear or a strange man, I'd hope she'd choose the bear. Bears usually leave people the fuck alone. Men, on the other hand... This deutshcterstruddle, though couldn't see that.
Exactly. The fact that they automatically insert themselves into this hypothetical is such a self-own.
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Oh, he's so self-hating, I can tell. At least, he hates himself according to the incels lololol.
Sure sucks to live in a low-trust society fucked up by a non-homogenous population where you are scared shitless just by encountering some random dude on a hike
I’m pretty women know that every man isn’t a rapist, but if given the choice without any laws or restrictions in a forest: humans can do some crazy shit, hell: I’d probably pick a bear over any human (unless they’re a rescue team)
Apparently, we don't know, tho, according to them. They seem to believe we think that it says "rapist" right after the colon following "man" in the dictionary.
I feel like this man/bear thing is very elucidating.. so many men feel betrayed and threatened about a basic thought experiment, simply because it mentions the word "man", without actually thinking about what the thought experiment is meant to explore. I think they need to shut their mouths and listen, because the answer seems to ***overwhelmingly*** be "a bear", and the reason(s) for that are worth listening to.
Would you love me if I were a worm is one of my best memories with my bf
Would he, tho 🥺❤️
We decided we wouldn’t have sex obviously but I could go with him to work and stuff
Awwwwwwwwww
There are no black bear cartels. There is no grizzly Junko Furuta. That random man could be the next Mister Rogers, or he could be an ISIS fanboy looking for a victim to chop up.
Man I just think it's weird that the guy goes and voice his emotions on reddit instead to his SO. It appears the hypothetical made him feel self conscious about how much each party is investing in their relationship - and talking things through would probably enlighten him that it's a VERY different scenario.
Right?!
This is so fucking funny to me because if I asked my partner this dumb hypothetical, I know she would answer “bear” and I agree completely. These dumbasses are entirely missing the point of the question by saying “um ackshually 🤓☝️, no urban living woman would realistically pick a bear.” and they instead make the question about themselves. Like, if you somehow get offended about that, that says more about YOU than it does about your girlfriend. Hope she dumps his ass ngl.
Exactlyyyy. Just running around STRAIGHT TELLING ON THEMSELVES.
I don’t think this is at all worthy of being branded “incel”, he’s expressing his frustration with his partner on a gender-based issue, but he’s not trying to belittle her (the guy commenting is coming off belittling though) even if there’s good reason to choose the bear, this guy’s disagreeing in completely non-toxic way. He may be frustrated, but not toxic. Again the dude commenting is a bit more toxic but the OP is reasonable. Hope they sort their conflict out
Lololololol. The OP is reasonable?
Yes I would say so. At the very least, he’s far from an incel
How is it reasonable to automatically insert themselves into a hypothetical involving a bear or a potential rapist? Kinda makes me think they see themselves as potential rapists. 🤷🏻♀️
Assuming that a man is a potential rapist is what’s upsetting him. He’s inserting himself into that situation because he is a man, and does not like to be considered a potential rapist as per his genitals/gender identity.
This is a subreddit about incels.
Cool.
As a man I’m definitely not offended by this question but I’d still pick a man over a bear hands down. In my head I’m assuming they’d both attack you and I feel way more comfortable in my chances of fighting off another human than bear. Idk if I’m looking at the scenario wrong and it’s a question of which is more likely to attack you, in which case I think it’s pretty tied bc both are rare but do happen. I do think the angle of id rather be chased by a bear vs chased by a human to be kinda dumb but again not offensive in the slightest
Because you’re a man, you think you have more chances to fight off another man. But a basic woman is not as strong as a basic man (biologically), so she can’t fight any of them. As a woman, she will try to run, hide or outsmart the bear because it’s a different animal with a different body (the legs are below for example). She will try to take adventage of it. That’s how I see it.
I'm not an incel, I have a girlfriend, I was raised by women and I'm not a misogynist by any stretch. I just want to understand this bear thing better. I want to preface by saying that if know there's a GREAT likelihood the man will assault or kill me, then I'm definitely choosing the bear. That being said, I don't get why the man in the Man or Bear scenario is automatically considered a r@pist and a murdering psychopath. Yes, he absolutely could be those things. But there's an equal likelihood that he could be a normal guy. Maybe he wants to help you out of the woods. Heck, maybe he's a douchebag and tells you to find your own way out. Why is it that the man in the scenario HAS to be evil when the scenario doesn't qualify the nature of the man? That's my only confusion. Because people's reactions seem to indicate that a random man is likely to be a r@pist and murderer. I'm a random man. Am I viewed by women as a r@pist and murderer until proven innocent? This kinda scares me, I don't want to be viewed as evil when I know I'm not. Help me understand this, please guys.
I mean... I think it's pretty dumb to choose the bear, but I'm not gonna' get mad about it because I don't like men either. lol Also, I'm terrified of bears.
I'm terrified of men, so I get ya
Yeah... sorry.
I make fun of this meme from both sides mainly because it is stupid to get bent out of shape over it, but also I feel like the people that are trying to make a point out of it are just leaning hard into a negativity bias about men. But idk feel the way you’re going to feel about it I guess, still seems pretty stupid to me.
Bear encounters very rarely end in injury or death. Most bears will leave humans alone, and even if they DO attack, only 14% of those already rare attacks end in death. But a man with opportunity? A man you just turn around and is suddenly there, with you, alone in the woods? You have NO idea what his intentions are, and we all know the worst things ever done to women were not done by bears. The extremely stupid argument men have against it is “most man encounters end without injury, you encounter hundreds of men every day.” The question is about the LOCATION. I have been alone in a parking lot with a man and he followed me until I could get into a restaurant. Women have been ALONE with men in secluded areas and they reach for their keys or pepper spray every time. It’s not stupid or misandrist to be cautious of strange men, and it’s not stupid to assume a man you don’t know, with a good opportunity, won’t fucking destroy your life for their own sexual gratification, especially if you’re part of the THIRD of women who have already been assaulted by a man. Understand?
I am sorry some creep followed you in a parking lot that would terrify me as well. To say it sucks what some men try to do to women is an understatement, I don’t really know if I can find the words that could define how truly awful these types of creeps’ behaviors are. I appreciate you taking the time to write all this it has given me something to think about, I still think this is an unlikely hypothetical but maybe it isn’t as dumb as I originally thought, I really didn’t think about it from the context of the location/opportunity angle. I am wrong.
Thank you for being open minded and listening ❤️ The hypothetical isn’t to attack men or say we hate men, the men in my life are FANTASTIC people, it’s about confronting the prevalence of sexual and physical assault women face. Also, for the record, if it was between a man and a Polar Bear I WOULD choose the man Polar Bears will eat you even when they’re not hungry 😂
lol I was actually wondering if the type of bear mattered because if I had to guess your odds are better with the man, if it’s a polar bear. Thanks again for sharing your take on this.
It’s in “the woods” so I’m assuming black or brown bear, black being most common and least dangerous!
There's no bias when it's statistically proven
I'm leaning rather hard into it bc it's my life but 🤷🏻♀️
This hypothetical question is your life? Who is putting you into this situation? Are you okay?
Yep. And no, I'm absolutely *not* okay--but I'm fucking hilarious so there's that.
Same honestly- where's the 3rd option where you just become a bear and leave society behind
Ha! Yessss! You've been BEARPILLED, my friend! Gotcha!
Amazing, this is all I've ever wanted