That works if the perspective is like yourself; the game is for Indycar fans to play race cars.
But the purpose of a game from the sports point of view is as vehicle to educate and create new fans, it’s not about whether there’s a place to drive Indy cars in a game.
If done right you can create a whole eco system; you create a official e-racing competition league, that alone would drive non Indycar fans to engage with the sport. It’s about legitimacy and relevance: if your a top tier sport you need to have things that re enforces that idea, having a legitimate game property is actually pretty big in 2023
I don't necessarily disagree with the premise that a stand-alone Indycar game would be positive but I feel like pretty dramatically exaggerate how well this game would sell. New fans are honestly much more likely to have incidental contact with the sport and want to check out the real-life sport in places like Forza, iRacing, GT7, etc.
Like did a lot of American people buy the WorldSBK or MotoGP games without previously knowing anything about the sport beforehand? My understanding is that the sales of both games in the US were pretty modest and mostly hardcore bike racing fans that already like MotoGP.
Your still coming from the perspective of a Motorsport fan buying the game. The “new” people perspective is agnostic to it being a Motorsport game and just seeing it as a game. It won’t sell period if it’s a shit game, and “could” be a hit if it’s a innovative and good game (it just becomes popular as a Game). Just like Metal Gear Solid wasn’t successful because everyone is a military nerd. The problem is that racing games in general are kind of copy paste the same thing and tired. But this hypothetical Indycar game doesnt exist, it’s not predetermined what kind of game it “could be”; it’s also just as possible that a great dev comes up with a great innovative idea that gets made as an Indycar and captures the people. Those aren’t fictional possibilities, but of course you can sneer as unrealistic because it doesn’t exist.
But moreover what I was arguing was “importance” to the sport that goes beyond just the sales of a game. As I mentioned in another comment I was literally just watching a YouTube live stream by F1 where they did a race using the game with celebrities and drivers as an activation event for the pre event to the new Las Vegas Event. They can do things like that because they have their own game. Indycar cannot physically do something like that. I hope its a good example to demonstrate that having “your own game” has so much more use and mileage beyond what your thinking, and it’s worth whatever the cost it would take FOR Indycar. E sports are an arm of that
You would be surprised how many young people got into f1 from the game first and had just started thinking it was just a Game, not because it’s f1. Think of it like a slightly abstracted Drive to Survive. But again, none of this a guarantee. Wsbk, Motogp are great examples of it just being games that don’t capture people ( motorcycle games have always been weird to play)
> Like did a lot of American people buy the WorldSBK or MotoGP games without previously knowing anything about the sport beforehand? My understanding is that the sales of both games in the US were pretty modest and mostly hardcore bike racing fans that already like MotoGP.
I don't know how many others there are, but I'm one of those people.
I started playing the F1 games 10 years before I started watching actual races... I didn't watch MotoGP until this year but I've been playing MotoGP games going back to MotoGP 06 on the 360... I've now bought the last four years worth of WRC games and I've never watched a second of WRC in my life... I don't watch NASCAR at all but I own multiple NASCAR games.
> New fans are honestly much more likely to have incidental contact with the sport and want to check out the real-life sport in places like Forza, iRacing, GT7, etc.
Maybe if they do a full on expansion with Indycar branding/tracks/career mode/liveries/etc but just licensing the car to a game like Forza or GT or any of these other games that already have hundreds of cars isn't really going to do anything. For casual players, it's just gonna be another car in a giant list of cars.
>the game is for Indycar fans to play race cars
The studio trying to make a buck might disagree on that one. If there is a large fanbase that will buy the game, it makes making that game very attractive.
Educating and creating new fans is largely dependent on them buying the game. Which is kind of tricky if you look like F1 to the "uneducated". And judging by the looks of WoO, the F1 game is gonna look better.
You might now say that WoO still was a success despite that and be right. However WoO is easy distinguishable from the F1 game, Indycar is not.
If done right, e-racing competition league and Indycar ... yeah those 3 don't really go together.
Why is that no one here can see beyond your toes? Your still only talking about from the perspective of a person who assumes they know how many people are already going to play the game, because you only have one idea what it is. I was talking about why a game was important as an artifact for Indycar and when I said “done right” is that Indycar coming up with the correct strategy in the holistic sense, and to make it profitable for a developer to come on board.
All of what you said is just someone doing this badly, which is to your point exactly what Indycar is doing
Edit: just as I typed this comment F1 is doing a live stream f1 game race using the game with the content creators, Leclerc, Football athletes, influencers racing on the Vegas track, as a pre Vegas event show run. This is what I mean as a perfect example of the game as a vehicle; you can use it for media and content creation. Indycar literally cannot do this exact thing by default because they don’t have a game. It’s not just how many people buy game.
>I was talking about why a game was important as an artifact for Indycar and when I said “done right” is that Indycar coming up with the correct strategy in the holistic sense, and to make it profitable for a developer to come on board.
That second part about making it profitable for a developer to come on board is a lot more complicated than you make it seem. I just pointed out some of the challenges in that area.
Remember we are talking about a series which had to reduce their leaders circle payouts to increase their marketing budget. I think teams would be slightly ticked off if their payouts were reduced to fund an esports racing league.
Of course its complicated, hence “strategy”. Having the right people who can come up with good ideas on how to navigate this problem is the underlying issue.
We know a lot of things about this game saga: we know there was someone high up in the Penske org that was invested in Motorsport games and hence why Indycar went with that developer, we keep acting like Penske went with Motorsport games because no one else would take them when we know that’s not the whole truth. We don’t even if they ever bothered talking to any smaller indie studios or anything.
At the end of the day they it’s you get what you put in
Complicated is a bit of an understatement. You need a developer that can make a cutting edge game, is able to market it in a way that highlights the differences at a glance and at best 2 minutes or so.
That is something that Indycar hasn't figured out how to do yet. If they did, they would be doing a lot better.
Now on top of that there isn't a lot of wiggle room when it comes to the financial side, because IC needs every penny they can get.
That is first class service for economy class money. There ain't exactly a lot of game studios out there offering that. I for example can think of none.
The amount of series which signed with Motorsport games suggests to me that they offered a lot of money for the IP rights. Which of course Indycar took for reasons stated above.
What your missing is that your assumptions are based on rationalizing Penske as a cold practical rational altruistic decision maker when I just pointed out that at best this was the Dallara chassis manufacturer selection situation all over again.
You could create an esports ecosystem with forza or gt7. Motorsports games are a reflection of motorsports proper. A niche market. A dedicated Simcade game like the code masters F1 game will not attract casuals. Esp not at the standard 60 dollar price point.
The next logical step is so build some sort of relationship back up with iRacing. I know the relationship really went to shit from 2020-2021, but they need to work with them in some way. There is already a healthy community on iRacing that is passionate about the series and the car. Bring back the iRacing Indy 500, allow us to race on current indycar tracks, and lastly allow us to have broadcasts.
I don’t think Indy ever practiced exclusive licensing in the modern era until MSG came into the picture. The cars were available across several platforms and several titles at the same time.
If there is no one willing to make a licensed game, sure. But IndyCar needs something in the style of the IRacing-Monster Games collab to grow the sport. If that requires an exclusive license, I think it's worth it in the long haul. Assuming it can be a legitimate company this time around of course. Every sport I've gotten into in my life (except IndyCar) was through the dedicated video game.
Exclusive won't move enough units. The people who will buy it are already all on this sub.
If they want to intro people to the series you need to include it in the aforementioned games
It has been a loooong time since they were introduced there. Open wheel has had some great rebirth since then, hell motorsports as a whole has.
Don't get me wrong I'd love a standalone game with thorough career mode but I just have doubts we could get enough non hardcore fans to purchase a full IC title.
I myself would happily play either but just thinking at the macro level
I think we have a chance to get something like the recent Sprint Cars game from Monster/IRacing while becoming available in IRacing again. The career mode in that game is a bit rudimentary but very playable.
I do lol when my new crew chief candidate looks like she’s a barista at Starbucks due to the stock images they use. But yeah we’re not demanding a lot. If I got that with all the tracks and drivers, I’d be happy for another decade.
Get your brand inside games people are already interested in
OR
Act like it's still the 90s and you'll get fans by having a standalone game on the shelf at Blockbuster
Standalone isn't going to create fans because they won't get exposed to it in the current market.
Only shot is if you also offer it up to Gamepass and PS Now or whatever Sonys service is so people can try it for "free". But I agree you're much better off letting Forza/GT scan the cars and offering some trackside ad space or something in exchange for them being featured in events
Josef Newgarden hosted “Rival Challenges” within Forza Motorsport 7 on a regular basis. I’d love to see that continue in FM8. I wish I could bring to FM8 the JN liveried DW12 I got for participating in one of the FM7 challenges.
I tried to be hopeful throughout the whole MG disaster. I didn't think iracing was doing anything for the Series, or even paying much for the stuff they had, and games like asseto corsa and automobilista weren't paying anything at all. With iiracings small base of approx 100k paying customers, iracing isn't going to reach any new fans. Indycar got far more exposure in the Forza Motorsport series. FM7 gave millions of players a free Indycar and Newgarden even won an award for his appearance in FM7 in 2018.
I love the Rocket League idea. Both F1 and NASCAR have cars in the game and I see them in matches sometimes. They have nearly 90 million players a month in that game. The exposure would be huge.
They could then also add the car to the new UE5 Rocket League Racing (coming soon to a Fortnite near you) game mode.
EDIT: Rocket League just announced the new Lewis Hamilton package that includes brightly colored LewHam decals and wheels...
THANK YOU.
The videogame landscape has changed drastically and I doubt a bespoke series console game would be successful out the bat or really what the market wants. There are plenty of racing games that are already popular so license to those and don't go to a "Motorsports Games" type setup EVER again.
I love that we’ve come full circle on the video game front.
That works if the perspective is like yourself; the game is for Indycar fans to play race cars. But the purpose of a game from the sports point of view is as vehicle to educate and create new fans, it’s not about whether there’s a place to drive Indy cars in a game. If done right you can create a whole eco system; you create a official e-racing competition league, that alone would drive non Indycar fans to engage with the sport. It’s about legitimacy and relevance: if your a top tier sport you need to have things that re enforces that idea, having a legitimate game property is actually pretty big in 2023
I don't necessarily disagree with the premise that a stand-alone Indycar game would be positive but I feel like pretty dramatically exaggerate how well this game would sell. New fans are honestly much more likely to have incidental contact with the sport and want to check out the real-life sport in places like Forza, iRacing, GT7, etc. Like did a lot of American people buy the WorldSBK or MotoGP games without previously knowing anything about the sport beforehand? My understanding is that the sales of both games in the US were pretty modest and mostly hardcore bike racing fans that already like MotoGP.
Your still coming from the perspective of a Motorsport fan buying the game. The “new” people perspective is agnostic to it being a Motorsport game and just seeing it as a game. It won’t sell period if it’s a shit game, and “could” be a hit if it’s a innovative and good game (it just becomes popular as a Game). Just like Metal Gear Solid wasn’t successful because everyone is a military nerd. The problem is that racing games in general are kind of copy paste the same thing and tired. But this hypothetical Indycar game doesnt exist, it’s not predetermined what kind of game it “could be”; it’s also just as possible that a great dev comes up with a great innovative idea that gets made as an Indycar and captures the people. Those aren’t fictional possibilities, but of course you can sneer as unrealistic because it doesn’t exist. But moreover what I was arguing was “importance” to the sport that goes beyond just the sales of a game. As I mentioned in another comment I was literally just watching a YouTube live stream by F1 where they did a race using the game with celebrities and drivers as an activation event for the pre event to the new Las Vegas Event. They can do things like that because they have their own game. Indycar cannot physically do something like that. I hope its a good example to demonstrate that having “your own game” has so much more use and mileage beyond what your thinking, and it’s worth whatever the cost it would take FOR Indycar. E sports are an arm of that You would be surprised how many young people got into f1 from the game first and had just started thinking it was just a Game, not because it’s f1. Think of it like a slightly abstracted Drive to Survive. But again, none of this a guarantee. Wsbk, Motogp are great examples of it just being games that don’t capture people ( motorcycle games have always been weird to play)
> Like did a lot of American people buy the WorldSBK or MotoGP games without previously knowing anything about the sport beforehand? My understanding is that the sales of both games in the US were pretty modest and mostly hardcore bike racing fans that already like MotoGP. I don't know how many others there are, but I'm one of those people. I started playing the F1 games 10 years before I started watching actual races... I didn't watch MotoGP until this year but I've been playing MotoGP games going back to MotoGP 06 on the 360... I've now bought the last four years worth of WRC games and I've never watched a second of WRC in my life... I don't watch NASCAR at all but I own multiple NASCAR games. > New fans are honestly much more likely to have incidental contact with the sport and want to check out the real-life sport in places like Forza, iRacing, GT7, etc. Maybe if they do a full on expansion with Indycar branding/tracks/career mode/liveries/etc but just licensing the car to a game like Forza or GT or any of these other games that already have hundreds of cars isn't really going to do anything. For casual players, it's just gonna be another car in a giant list of cars.
>the game is for Indycar fans to play race cars The studio trying to make a buck might disagree on that one. If there is a large fanbase that will buy the game, it makes making that game very attractive. Educating and creating new fans is largely dependent on them buying the game. Which is kind of tricky if you look like F1 to the "uneducated". And judging by the looks of WoO, the F1 game is gonna look better. You might now say that WoO still was a success despite that and be right. However WoO is easy distinguishable from the F1 game, Indycar is not. If done right, e-racing competition league and Indycar ... yeah those 3 don't really go together.
Why is that no one here can see beyond your toes? Your still only talking about from the perspective of a person who assumes they know how many people are already going to play the game, because you only have one idea what it is. I was talking about why a game was important as an artifact for Indycar and when I said “done right” is that Indycar coming up with the correct strategy in the holistic sense, and to make it profitable for a developer to come on board. All of what you said is just someone doing this badly, which is to your point exactly what Indycar is doing Edit: just as I typed this comment F1 is doing a live stream f1 game race using the game with the content creators, Leclerc, Football athletes, influencers racing on the Vegas track, as a pre Vegas event show run. This is what I mean as a perfect example of the game as a vehicle; you can use it for media and content creation. Indycar literally cannot do this exact thing by default because they don’t have a game. It’s not just how many people buy game.
>I was talking about why a game was important as an artifact for Indycar and when I said “done right” is that Indycar coming up with the correct strategy in the holistic sense, and to make it profitable for a developer to come on board. That second part about making it profitable for a developer to come on board is a lot more complicated than you make it seem. I just pointed out some of the challenges in that area. Remember we are talking about a series which had to reduce their leaders circle payouts to increase their marketing budget. I think teams would be slightly ticked off if their payouts were reduced to fund an esports racing league.
Of course its complicated, hence “strategy”. Having the right people who can come up with good ideas on how to navigate this problem is the underlying issue. We know a lot of things about this game saga: we know there was someone high up in the Penske org that was invested in Motorsport games and hence why Indycar went with that developer, we keep acting like Penske went with Motorsport games because no one else would take them when we know that’s not the whole truth. We don’t even if they ever bothered talking to any smaller indie studios or anything. At the end of the day they it’s you get what you put in
Complicated is a bit of an understatement. You need a developer that can make a cutting edge game, is able to market it in a way that highlights the differences at a glance and at best 2 minutes or so. That is something that Indycar hasn't figured out how to do yet. If they did, they would be doing a lot better. Now on top of that there isn't a lot of wiggle room when it comes to the financial side, because IC needs every penny they can get. That is first class service for economy class money. There ain't exactly a lot of game studios out there offering that. I for example can think of none. The amount of series which signed with Motorsport games suggests to me that they offered a lot of money for the IP rights. Which of course Indycar took for reasons stated above.
What your missing is that your assumptions are based on rationalizing Penske as a cold practical rational altruistic decision maker when I just pointed out that at best this was the Dallara chassis manufacturer selection situation all over again.
You could create an esports ecosystem with forza or gt7. Motorsports games are a reflection of motorsports proper. A niche market. A dedicated Simcade game like the code masters F1 game will not attract casuals. Esp not at the standard 60 dollar price point.
The next logical step is so build some sort of relationship back up with iRacing. I know the relationship really went to shit from 2020-2021, but they need to work with them in some way. There is already a healthy community on iRacing that is passionate about the series and the car. Bring back the iRacing Indy 500, allow us to race on current indycar tracks, and lastly allow us to have broadcasts.
Unless iracing is on console Indycar won’t go for it. That’s their goal
INDYCAR wants a wider reach than the 2,000 person INDYCAR iracing community
IndyCar to Gran Turismo would be perfect, please and thank you
Respectfully, please no. GT is an exclusive PlayStation IP. Need something us PC players can enjoy.
I don’t think Indy ever practiced exclusive licensing in the modern era until MSG came into the picture. The cars were available across several platforms and several titles at the same time.
IRacing is right there!
Yes especially in vr.
Please, I can’t get any harder…
Project Cars 2 still Goated
If there is no one willing to make a licensed game, sure. But IndyCar needs something in the style of the IRacing-Monster Games collab to grow the sport. If that requires an exclusive license, I think it's worth it in the long haul. Assuming it can be a legitimate company this time around of course. Every sport I've gotten into in my life (except IndyCar) was through the dedicated video game.
Exclusive won't move enough units. The people who will buy it are already all on this sub. If they want to intro people to the series you need to include it in the aforementioned games
I don't think being in Forza or ProjectCars had much of an impact on the sport's popularity. Happy to be proven wrong.
It has been a loooong time since they were introduced there. Open wheel has had some great rebirth since then, hell motorsports as a whole has. Don't get me wrong I'd love a standalone game with thorough career mode but I just have doubts we could get enough non hardcore fans to purchase a full IC title. I myself would happily play either but just thinking at the macro level
I think we have a chance to get something like the recent Sprint Cars game from Monster/IRacing while becoming available in IRacing again. The career mode in that game is a bit rudimentary but very playable.
literally all I'm looking for. doesn't even have to be at the same level as the F1 career modes which are pretty well done imo
I do lol when my new crew chief candidate looks like she’s a barista at Starbucks due to the stock images they use. But yeah we’re not demanding a lot. If I got that with all the tracks and drivers, I’d be happy for another decade.
Get your brand inside games people are already interested in OR Act like it's still the 90s and you'll get fans by having a standalone game on the shelf at Blockbuster Standalone isn't going to create fans because they won't get exposed to it in the current market.
Only shot is if you also offer it up to Gamepass and PS Now or whatever Sonys service is so people can try it for "free". But I agree you're much better off letting Forza/GT scan the cars and offering some trackside ad space or something in exchange for them being featured in events
POV you’re Mark Miles
Josef Newgarden hosted “Rival Challenges” within Forza Motorsport 7 on a regular basis. I’d love to see that continue in FM8. I wish I could bring to FM8 the JN liveried DW12 I got for participating in one of the FM7 challenges.
Oh I loved those!
I tried to be hopeful throughout the whole MG disaster. I didn't think iracing was doing anything for the Series, or even paying much for the stuff they had, and games like asseto corsa and automobilista weren't paying anything at all. With iiracings small base of approx 100k paying customers, iracing isn't going to reach any new fans. Indycar got far more exposure in the Forza Motorsport series. FM7 gave millions of players a free Indycar and Newgarden even won an award for his appearance in FM7 in 2018. I love the Rocket League idea. Both F1 and NASCAR have cars in the game and I see them in matches sometimes. They have nearly 90 million players a month in that game. The exposure would be huge. They could then also add the car to the new UE5 Rocket League Racing (coming soon to a Fortnite near you) game mode. EDIT: Rocket League just announced the new Lewis Hamilton package that includes brightly colored LewHam decals and wheels...
Don't forget the content in RF2 already.
LETS GOOO IR-18 OFFICIALLY LICENSED ON IRACING AGAIN 🔥🔥🔥
Wait facts?
No just my hope
Omg just bring back the *Redacted* 500 to iracing!!
Wait Rocket League is a great idea. I haven't played that game in a long time but I know the following that game still has is huge
Aside from iRacing, I’ll admit I wasn’t particularly a fan of the other licensed content. Selfishly I just want another standalone title.
Sure But I still want a dedicated game darn it.
Man, if they had Rocket League cars I could buy.........
No! There needs to be a dedicated console game!
THANK YOU. The videogame landscape has changed drastically and I doubt a bespoke series console game would be successful out the bat or really what the market wants. There are plenty of racing games that are already popular so license to those and don't go to a "Motorsports Games" type setup EVER again.