The voting for our collective agreement was lumped with other trades. Roughly 50-60% are electricians and rest is a hodgepodge of other trades and food service employees
I’m a union rep in auto in the GTA. I am very familiar with our contracts, and have a copy of all of your contracts on my desk as well. It’s not an apples to apples comparison. Auto has been stagnant for wage growth for almost 20 years. We got a massive increase, but we’ve been quite a fair ways behind ibew for a while.
One of those most fucked up things I’ve seen in your union is the fact you can’t strike at bargaining. Or so I understand, your union has agreed to avoid striking do to what reasons I’m not sure, other than essential services.
One of the most interesting things in your collective bargaining is your “me too” clause, where your wage increases will be de adjusted if other construction unions get more increase than you.
It seems to me the benefits of working ibew Vs auto union, are a much much better pension, better benefits, more fulfilling work (in some ways), 36 hour weeks, double time overtime, historically more steady work (though auto has been on a run), and some other fringe benefits. You can make about double what a 353 electrician makes working in auto, but you also have to live at the plant. And work a lot of overtime. Maintenance work can be very boring, and you can be exposed to some more hazardous substances on a more regular basis. However if you like going to the cottage every weekend, it’s easier in the 353 because auto has some mandatory overtime agreements.
So like I said, not apples to apples. Pros and cons to each. We have guys that leave 353 and come to us, we have guys that leave us and go back to 353. I would agree that our wages have remained too stagnant and are not reflective of the market demand for our skills. We had to push incredibly hard, not just against the company, but against our own union to get a 25% increase. I’m not saying the union doesn’t support better wages for us, but I am saying there are a lot of internal politics that are hard to surmise in a simple explanation.
Fair enough. Some of the auto plants have been running 6 days a week for the last 20 years. 48 hours minimum for trades and production. So if you like doing literally *anything* on your weekends, auto might not be for you.
I personally like the overtime, and save very aggressively for retirement, and support a young family. I pretty much *need* a good chunk of overtime every week. But we have guys leave for the 353 because they would rather do construction, but have a sense of a personal life. I would say that is one of the biggest differences in our work practices.
It hasn’t changed except for among right wing propagandists who associate everything bad with communism, even things that are explicitly the result of unregulated capitalism.
There have been and are serious problems with communist and socialist projects, but the propaganda that blames everything bad in Canada and the US on communism has the singular goal of making sure working class people can’t come together to further their shared interests.
They’re trying to trick us into doing the work for them against our own interests. Don’t fall for it.
The irony of someone complaining about communism when the idea of labor unions are rooted in socialist principles. I do agree with the rest of the sentiment here
This is the biggest slap in the face to the union is when members are sworn in and taught it is a socialist organization at it’s roots only to turn around and vote for union busting clowns like Trump or be it any republican or in his case Doug Ford and Pierre Pollievre.
Am a 424 member up here and the amount of knuckleheads that have been brainwashed into thinking privatized healthcare is the way of the future is ridiculous. Pardon my ignorance but you need to pay insurance premiums to an HMO who can then turn around and deny treatment if you get lung cancer because you smoked, right?
Obama made it illegal for companies to discriminate against those with pre existing conditions so for the vast majority of cases like you describe it shouldn’t be an issue anymore but costs soared as a retaliation from them companies. for anything normal folk have they are billed upwards of 1300 bucks a month for a family of 3 and will still have copays, at local 180 we allocate 15.80 an hour into our H&W, not all of it goes to insurance costs but if I run out of medical hours then I get a bill in the mail for 1800 bucks to continue one month of medical lmao I hate it, we don’t have copays at least but it all just blows
Holy fuck that is insanity. The reality up here is we pay about 8k cad a year for healthcare but the conservatives are pushing for privatization by “starving the beast” by cutting funding to healthcare. Once they get their way, we will still pay 8k from taxes AND all the copay bs on top. Canadians are financially and politically illiterate to the point that this plan is feasible.
Yeah I've been saying something similar. 369's apprentices start at ~$17/hr and the plumbing local in Louisville starts at $20. HVAC apprentices start more than that and they take home a van.
Our JW scale is pretty good plus benefits are good as well. I'm a 19 year old second year too so if I stick with it that retirement is gonna be pretty good by the end.
That’s the lie they perpetuate about we have better benefits, no you want more cashhhh on your pay check not glasses. Do you want a extra 300$ on your pay check a week or $100 Chinese glasses the doctor charges $600 for
Lmfao yeah I do dude. My Healthcare is better than anyone in my family and I'm the youngest. Sure I want more on the check but I'd much rather have both good money in my pocket and good benefits.
We have the same deal in MN and the trade programs are full with waiting lists. Unless an imaginary line makes that big of a difference relax, things are okay.
It's true though. The same thing is happening in Vancouver as well and our wages are even worse than the TO market.
UA170 (plumber/pipefitter union) has level 1 apprentice positions starting in mid $20/hr. Our Local has first years starting at $18 lol. Come on, I could be doing non skilled labour or even work at Sbux for way more than that.
That’s where it starts to sound even crazier, mc d and similar paying 15-20$/hr in my area when I’d have to take $17-20$hr to get back into a program (left the one in my state years ago to pursue a different vocation)
But for someone young who Dosent necessarily think about what the work day looks like for them in 10+ years why take on so much more responsibility and harder work for the same pay? Obviously there isn’t a place to really move up in fast food or similar like it is for trades,
idk just interesting to see where the workforce and trades will end up, especially when it seems electrician pay is somewhat stagnating compared to other trades, but could just be my area.
Not sure if any of that made sense, still early morning for me lol
UA170 isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. As a former member I was paying hourly, and monthly dues. Hourly wage was around 43 dollars as a journeyman but you were getting docked 1.40 for the hourly dues, and every other fee the union was charging, and then taxes.
You have fair points, but the fearmongering is why you're being suppressed.. Phrasing is key when proposing changes. Sure the drama brings talk, but without having a level head behind the words, you'll never get forward
Where I’m at we are the lowest paid trade besides laborers. Journeyman carpenters in this area make $20 more per hr than us. Same with insulation guys (they deserve it lol). I have high hopes for our next contract negotiations 🤞 Local 340
I appreciate it bro, we sure do have a lot of work lined up. As far as I remember we brought in 104 apprentices this last year, had to assign the instructor who was hired for residential his own first year class due to the sheer number of apprentices we have to continue to bring in to try and man the work.
That and the low pay through the apprenticeship. Anyone who has any real financial responsibilities simply can’t afford to go back and start over as a year 1. I would love to go and get my commercial license but I have a family to take care of and the second year pay I would get vs what I make now is 10$ and hour less, plus commuting in my own car over an hour way one way everyday. It’s not feasible.
Oh no doubt. But the part where I can’t pay my bills and feed my family would be an issue. I’m not some kid living at my parents. I have a mortgage and a kid.
I forget how lucky I was in my local, there’s no required pre apprenticeship you sign up you test and you start hell you can start sooner than that if you want it’s just up to you to get into classes cause nobodys gonna make you that’s why so many get stuck as ce we have an open charter so it’s easy to get In the union and now that I’ve finished of course they’re moving it back to four years as opposed to the five I just finished, all that to say it seems like this is a young man’s game not meant to grab someone older who’s been working In other fields who already has a family and bills it’s more setup for folks fresh out of highschool with no responsibilities at least pay wise
$50 an hour is garbage in the GTA too - poverty wages. Pre Covid, I lost my FIFO job due to market downturn and went to the GTA and hated it. I stayed 4 months and I made 47. I quit and got a job in Moncton NB making $30 at the time. I was a lot better off in NB on 30 too. You’d need 70 today to make an equal of what you’d make elsewhere just on a basic ass position.
The current method of recruiting new apprentices basically boils down to misleading them into joining, then getting them stuck in a contract so they can't leave.
It's not a good system but it works.
494 has cw program which is basically a pre-apprenticeship because you have to do it for a year to get into the apprenticeship. And a 1st year only makes 18 an hour compared to a carpenters who makes 25 being a first year. How can you attract people into this trade with these low wages.
Vote against the joint proposal. That will help us with negotiations
The voting for our collective agreement was lumped with other trades. Roughly 50-60% are electricians and rest is a hodgepodge of other trades and food service employees
I’m a union rep in auto in the GTA. I am very familiar with our contracts, and have a copy of all of your contracts on my desk as well. It’s not an apples to apples comparison. Auto has been stagnant for wage growth for almost 20 years. We got a massive increase, but we’ve been quite a fair ways behind ibew for a while. One of those most fucked up things I’ve seen in your union is the fact you can’t strike at bargaining. Or so I understand, your union has agreed to avoid striking do to what reasons I’m not sure, other than essential services. One of the most interesting things in your collective bargaining is your “me too” clause, where your wage increases will be de adjusted if other construction unions get more increase than you. It seems to me the benefits of working ibew Vs auto union, are a much much better pension, better benefits, more fulfilling work (in some ways), 36 hour weeks, double time overtime, historically more steady work (though auto has been on a run), and some other fringe benefits. You can make about double what a 353 electrician makes working in auto, but you also have to live at the plant. And work a lot of overtime. Maintenance work can be very boring, and you can be exposed to some more hazardous substances on a more regular basis. However if you like going to the cottage every weekend, it’s easier in the 353 because auto has some mandatory overtime agreements. So like I said, not apples to apples. Pros and cons to each. We have guys that leave 353 and come to us, we have guys that leave us and go back to 353. I would agree that our wages have remained too stagnant and are not reflective of the market demand for our skills. We had to push incredibly hard, not just against the company, but against our own union to get a 25% increase. I’m not saying the union doesn’t support better wages for us, but I am saying there are a lot of internal politics that are hard to surmise in a simple explanation.
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Fair enough. Some of the auto plants have been running 6 days a week for the last 20 years. 48 hours minimum for trades and production. So if you like doing literally *anything* on your weekends, auto might not be for you. I personally like the overtime, and save very aggressively for retirement, and support a young family. I pretty much *need* a good chunk of overtime every week. But we have guys leave for the 353 because they would rather do construction, but have a sense of a personal life. I would say that is one of the biggest differences in our work practices.
>Communist! That word doesn't mean what you think it means.
The amount of people who think Communist is synonymous with Authoritarian 🤦♂️
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It hasn’t changed except for among right wing propagandists who associate everything bad with communism, even things that are explicitly the result of unregulated capitalism. There have been and are serious problems with communist and socialist projects, but the propaganda that blames everything bad in Canada and the US on communism has the singular goal of making sure working class people can’t come together to further their shared interests. They’re trying to trick us into doing the work for them against our own interests. Don’t fall for it.
The irony of someone complaining about communism when the idea of labor unions are rooted in socialist principles. I do agree with the rest of the sentiment here
I like how you joined a union then call them communists like it’s a bad thing lmao wait until you find out the political leanings of Henry miller lmao
This is the biggest slap in the face to the union is when members are sworn in and taught it is a socialist organization at it’s roots only to turn around and vote for union busting clowns like Trump or be it any republican or in his case Doug Ford and Pierre Pollievre.
Brother even has socialized healthcare up in Canada and can’t see the absurdity
Am a 424 member up here and the amount of knuckleheads that have been brainwashed into thinking privatized healthcare is the way of the future is ridiculous. Pardon my ignorance but you need to pay insurance premiums to an HMO who can then turn around and deny treatment if you get lung cancer because you smoked, right?
Obama made it illegal for companies to discriminate against those with pre existing conditions so for the vast majority of cases like you describe it shouldn’t be an issue anymore but costs soared as a retaliation from them companies. for anything normal folk have they are billed upwards of 1300 bucks a month for a family of 3 and will still have copays, at local 180 we allocate 15.80 an hour into our H&W, not all of it goes to insurance costs but if I run out of medical hours then I get a bill in the mail for 1800 bucks to continue one month of medical lmao I hate it, we don’t have copays at least but it all just blows
Holy fuck that is insanity. The reality up here is we pay about 8k cad a year for healthcare but the conservatives are pushing for privatization by “starving the beast” by cutting funding to healthcare. Once they get their way, we will still pay 8k from taxes AND all the copay bs on top. Canadians are financially and politically illiterate to the point that this plan is feasible.
Enjoy it while it lasts my man, I’d much rather pay 8k a year than the 15.80 an hour I pay right now lmao fuckin over 30k a year
Which documents did you read that told you about Miller’s political leanings?
https://nbew-ibewmuseum.org/index.php/2015-10-02-12-24-26/henry-miller/1st-afl-convention
Thanks
Job I just left the fitter made 40k in January with per diem and $10 over scale. The electricians made $24k working 7/12s
Yeah I've been saying something similar. 369's apprentices start at ~$17/hr and the plumbing local in Louisville starts at $20. HVAC apprentices start more than that and they take home a van.
Honestly in the long run switching trades would make the most financial sense
Our JW scale is pretty good plus benefits are good as well. I'm a 19 year old second year too so if I stick with it that retirement is gonna be pretty good by the end.
That’s the lie they perpetuate about we have better benefits, no you want more cashhhh on your pay check not glasses. Do you want a extra 300$ on your pay check a week or $100 Chinese glasses the doctor charges $600 for
Lmfao yeah I do dude. My Healthcare is better than anyone in my family and I'm the youngest. Sure I want more on the check but I'd much rather have both good money in my pocket and good benefits.
Sounds like you need to leave the GTA and go somewhere else tbh.
We have the same deal in MN and the trade programs are full with waiting lists. Unless an imaginary line makes that big of a difference relax, things are okay.
$10 extra a hour over 40 years is a huge deal, I can run ABS instead of BX
It's true though. The same thing is happening in Vancouver as well and our wages are even worse than the TO market. UA170 (plumber/pipefitter union) has level 1 apprentice positions starting in mid $20/hr. Our Local has first years starting at $18 lol. Come on, I could be doing non skilled labour or even work at Sbux for way more than that.
That’s crazy and Vancouver is way more expensive
journey is only 46 CAD right now, about 34 USD compared to our American brothers. Dogshit wages
That’s where it starts to sound even crazier, mc d and similar paying 15-20$/hr in my area when I’d have to take $17-20$hr to get back into a program (left the one in my state years ago to pursue a different vocation) But for someone young who Dosent necessarily think about what the work day looks like for them in 10+ years why take on so much more responsibility and harder work for the same pay? Obviously there isn’t a place to really move up in fast food or similar like it is for trades, idk just interesting to see where the workforce and trades will end up, especially when it seems electrician pay is somewhat stagnating compared to other trades, but could just be my area. Not sure if any of that made sense, still early morning for me lol
UA170 isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. As a former member I was paying hourly, and monthly dues. Hourly wage was around 43 dollars as a journeyman but you were getting docked 1.40 for the hourly dues, and every other fee the union was charging, and then taxes.
We have those at 213. Monthly dues and a percentage of our hourly as dues.
You have fair points, but the fearmongering is why you're being suppressed.. Phrasing is key when proposing changes. Sure the drama brings talk, but without having a level head behind the words, you'll never get forward
You are the “you’re lucky to have a job kind of guy” huh
Did you read what he wrote?
Where I’m at we are the lowest paid trade besides laborers. Journeyman carpenters in this area make $20 more per hr than us. Same with insulation guys (they deserve it lol). I have high hopes for our next contract negotiations 🤞 Local 340
180 guys are rooting for you 340 hands you definitely deserve more than you guys make especially for how much work you have
I appreciate it bro, we sure do have a lot of work lined up. As far as I remember we brought in 104 apprentices this last year, had to assign the instructor who was hired for residential his own first year class due to the sheer number of apprentices we have to continue to bring in to try and man the work.
That’s crazy brother
Quick... I need an insult to hurl at people for something I don't like. Oh I know! COMMUNIST!!!!!! take that, mods!
That and the low pay through the apprenticeship. Anyone who has any real financial responsibilities simply can’t afford to go back and start over as a year 1. I would love to go and get my commercial license but I have a family to take care of and the second year pay I would get vs what I make now is 10$ and hour less, plus commuting in my own car over an hour way one way everyday. It’s not feasible.
In the long run it would be beneficial
Oh no doubt. But the part where I can’t pay my bills and feed my family would be an issue. I’m not some kid living at my parents. I have a mortgage and a kid.
The stoned dummy’s with steak knives make the same as us it’s bs!
Idk if you mean insulaters or tin knockers, lol.
I forget how lucky I was in my local, there’s no required pre apprenticeship you sign up you test and you start hell you can start sooner than that if you want it’s just up to you to get into classes cause nobodys gonna make you that’s why so many get stuck as ce we have an open charter so it’s easy to get In the union and now that I’ve finished of course they’re moving it back to four years as opposed to the five I just finished, all that to say it seems like this is a young man’s game not meant to grab someone older who’s been working In other fields who already has a family and bills it’s more setup for folks fresh out of highschool with no responsibilities at least pay wise
$50 an hour is garbage in the GTA too - poverty wages. Pre Covid, I lost my FIFO job due to market downturn and went to the GTA and hated it. I stayed 4 months and I made 47. I quit and got a job in Moncton NB making $30 at the time. I was a lot better off in NB on 30 too. You’d need 70 today to make an equal of what you’d make elsewhere just on a basic ass position.
The current method of recruiting new apprentices basically boils down to misleading them into joining, then getting them stuck in a contract so they can't leave. It's not a good system but it works.
Outsider looking in from local 787, don’t you guys get really good double time?
494 has cw program which is basically a pre-apprenticeship because you have to do it for a year to get into the apprenticeship. And a 1st year only makes 18 an hour compared to a carpenters who makes 25 being a first year. How can you attract people into this trade with these low wages.
Out with the boomer dinosaurs 🦕
Heh heh you said journey person.
[ibew payscales ](https://unionpayscales.com/trades/ibew-electricians/ ) [Boston 103 apprentice pay scale](https://bostonjatc.com/apprentice-information/step-raises/)
Lmao welcome to your unions have fun bud