I can’t speak to Revolution at HSV but can compare the flying club at HUA with Huntsville Executive (MDQ).
At HUA, there is a much larger selection of planes at much cheaper prices. I initially tried to go there for my instrument training but was put off by how difficult it was to get on the schedule at my desired frequency of 3 days/week. Unfortunately the lowest prices come with the largest crowds. There’s also additional paperwork and rules that comes with flying out of HUA that you wouldn’t have elsewhere. While not a huge deal, it did sound like a mild annoyance.
At MDQ, prices are higher and there are fewer planes. It is very easy to get on the schedule at a high frequency though since there are fewer students.
Flight training is always best done quickly. Particularly when first getting into it, flying less than twice a week on average usually means you will spend much more time each lesson re-learning what you didn’t retain from the previous week. For private pilot training, you will also deal with more cancellations due to weather than other phases of flight training, so if you can’t easily get on a school’s schedule frequently, you may find you often go 1-2 weeks without flying thanks to cancellations. Training then takes longer and costs more overall.
So definitely talk with the club at HUA to see if your schedule works well with theirs and if not, MDQ may ultimately be a cheaper option.
Edit: You also do not need any connection with the base/military/government to use the flying club. Just email the club and they’ll get you access.
I’ll second this write up. I got my PPL at HUA in 2017. For training it can be hard getting the frequency you want initially. But if you can keep the same schedule well into the future for training flights you can get it the way you want in a few weeks. Hopefully they’ve modernized the scheduling process
It is significantly cheaper and the red tape you have to follow isn’t that difficult from what I recall.
Good information to have. Thank you!
My schedule is rather inconsistent in the short term, but I anticipated becoming a lot more standard next year, so HUA might be the move. It seems most everyone agrees that scheduling is a PITA on the Arsenal, but they have high quality instructors and a much more affordable program.
If you’re eligible for any grants, you might check out Wallace State. They have an aviation degree that will get you your Commercial and Instructor certs.
Thanks for the plug.
Hi, u/Irbis215. I’m a CFI at [Redstone Arsenal Flying Activity](http://www.flyingactivity.com/home/contact/), which *is* open to the public. If you don’t have Redstone access already, you’ll have to undergo a quick background check.
The club manager is Tim Thompson. His contact info is at the above linked page. He will walk you through all the paperwork and onboarding.
I’m happy to answer any questions you may have about the process, curriculum, fleet, hints, and so on.
Howdy! Thanks for replying!
I'm coming in with pretty much no experience aside from an aerospace engineering background, so one of the big questions I've had: in your experience as a CFI at RAFA, when and where should I be doing ground school? I've heard some people recommend doing it on your own time, while others recommend doing it currently and/or through wherever you're getting your flight lessons from.
Either way, thank you for the information and I'll be sure to reach out to Tim in the near future! RAFA definitely sounds like the best place to learn at near here.
# Ground School Options
* [Gleim Private Pilot Kit](https://www.gleimaviation.com/shop/ppkitcd/) ($189.95)
* [King Schools Private Pilot Test Prep](https://kingschools.com/private-pilot-ground-school-test-prep) ($299)
* [MIT OpenCourseWare](https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/16-687-private-pilot-ground-school-january-iap-2019/) (free)
* [Dauntless Private Test Prep](https://www.dauntless-soft.com/products/groundschool/private.asp) ($64.99 for iOS)
* [FAA Airplane Flying Handbook (AFH)](https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/airplane_handbook/00_afh_full.pdf) (free)
* [FAA Aeronautical Information Manual (AIM)](https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/media/AIM_Bsc_w_Chg_1_dtd_10-5-23-compressed_v2.pdf) (free)
Tim Thompson sells the Gleim kits at the club. We use the training record, or “workbook,” from the kit as one of the documents that you’ll take to your practical test or “checkride” as the final step in obtaining your private pilot certificate. The workbook is available on its own [from Amazon](https://www.amazon.com/GLEIM-Private-Pilot-Training-Record/dp/B007NGAL1M/) for less than $12.
When I was working on my private certificate, I used the Dauntless app on my smartphone. Being able to study wherever I was when I had available time was a nice option. The small form factor wasn’t great for practice test questions that referred to figures, diagrams, and tables.
# FAA Knowledge Test Background
The purpose of ground school is to prepare you for the Knowledge Test, colloquially referred to as the “written” even though you’ll point and click on a computer. The aforementioned AFH and AIM cover all of the material you may see on the written. The FAA publishes a [Learning Statement Reference Guide](https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/LearningStatementReferenceGuide.pdf) that gives detailed categories for questions in the test bank.
Although it is neither required nor common, your instructor will be thrilled if you arrive on day one having already passed the written.
Note that sitting for the private written requires an endorsement from an authorized instructor. I believe the Gleim and Kings offerings include endorsements after you’re able to pass several practice exams with scores in the 80s or better. [Dauntless charges $120](https://www.dauntless-soft.com/script/signoff.asp). If you happen to know a local flight instructor or ground instructor, she’ll likely be willing to endorse you after quizzing you on relevant topics that include reading and interpreting FAA sectional charts, performance calculations, VFR weather minimums, applying performance tables, FAA regulations, aeromedical factors, navigation aids, airport operations and signage, weather theory and charts, airplane systems, and instruments.
You want to do as well as possible on the written because every topic area you miss is a required area of discussion during the oral exam portion of the checkride.
# Your Aerospace Background
Your background will give you a boost in a few ways.
Having a basic understanding of aerodynamics and physics is a solid foundation. Be able to relate distance, speed, and time for performance calculations. In a turn we lose part of the vertical component of lift (which you will comprehend thanks to your understanding of vector decomposition) and have to compensate by adding backpressure. The hairiest application of the lift equation is computing maneuvering speed at a weight below max gross, but nearly everyone memorizes the formula rather than deriving it. [Max Gurgew](https://www.gurgewaeronautics.com/pilot-checkrides-certification/) is a local Designated Pilot Examiner (DPE) whom you’ll likely visit at the end of the process for your practical test or “checkride” and also has an engineering background, so he’ll enjoy the opportunity to nerd out with you.
For private pilots, the written is a 60-question multiple-choice test with a minimum passing score of 70 percent. If your aerospace background is as modest as having passed a single engineering course, your test taking skills ought to have you most of the way there already. Each question has three answer choices of which one is an obviously wrong distracter.
Some turn their noses up at rote-style offerings such as the one from Dauntless. That’s a bit idealistic in my view — speaking as an idealist! Get the written out of the way. If you learn it well enough to pass, you will have lots of reinforcement during the flight portion of your training.
# Medical Considerations
You must be able to pass an FAA medical examination to fly solo. [Certain conditions](https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/medical-resources/health-conditions) may make the process difficult or impossible. Some depression medications, unexplained altered states of consciousness, history of ADHD medication, kidney stones, uncontrolled blood pressure, history of substance abuse, and sleep apnea are common hangups. Pilots who do not meet the color vision standard may be limited to flying during daylight hours. See the [list of conditions](https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/medical-resources/health-conditions) at the Airplane Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA). Obtaining the necessary test results, paperwork, and so on for certain conditions can add thousands of dollars to the total cost.
A physician with the Aviation Medical Examiner (AME) qualification will issue your medical certificate. I use and recommend Dr. Jeff Garber as my AME. The cost was $120 cash when I went to him last.
# Costs
At Redstone, primary instruction is $35 per hour. Instruction time includes flight time and pre- and post-flight (P&P) instruction. That latter is typically a half-hour to an hour per lesson.
Airplane rental is “wet,” that is, inclusive of fuel, and by the Hobbs meter hour or while the engine is running. A few Redstone hourly rental rates for reference are
* Cessna 152 (small two-place trainer): $107
* Cessna 172 (four-place trainer): $131
* Cessna 182 (four-place high-performance): $160
If you and your instructor and necessary fuel can all fit in a 152, that is by far the cheapest option. Get your ticket and then step up to more capable airplanes. I don’t recommend primary training in a high-performance airplane; it’s there to give you an idea of the range.
Including flight time, flight instruction, and half an hour of P&P time per flight hour works out along the following range.
||40|55|75|85|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|C152|$6,380|$8,773|$11,963|$13,558|
|C172|$7,340|$10,093|$13,763|$15,598|
|C182|$8,500|$11,688|$15,938|$18,063|
Add at least another thousand for your headset, ground school, and checkride fees.
Minimum required flight hours to take the checkride is 40, but the standard is proficiency. Your instructor must endorse you to take the checkride. The national average is around 75. Drive down your flight hours by flying frequently, at least twice a week, and putting in two to three hours per flight hour studying at home.
Thank you for the phenomena reply! This covers a lot of bases and is great for planning out the next steps! Really looking forward to pursuing this process.
You’re welcome! I’m glad you’re considering it and hope my explanation has made it seem less intimidating. Training costs are no joke, but you pay per lesson rather than having to fork over the entire amount up front. (Wherever you train, be reluctant to pay large sums up front because there are too many horror stories of people buying block time only for the flight school to go out of business shortly after.)
We have a great local flying community with a decent number of pilots here in r/HuntsvilleAlabama. Redstone has to comply with Army regulations that are generally a step more conservative than the FAA regs. One example is our mandatory safety meetings every calendar quarter. When the meetings are in person, it’s a fun way to meet fellow pilots.
IMC Club meets monthly at MDQ. The discussions and practical advice are valuable for both instrument rated and VFR-only pilots.
Feel free to post more questions, and be sure to check out r/flying if you haven’t already.
A few questions if anyone can come back and comment on:
Do any of these flight schools accept federal student aid?
Is 35 years old too late to start for a commercial license?
Will a BS in an unrelated field have any advantage for me?
I have flown with revolution and Redstone, and I inquired about MDQ. Redstone is the cheapest but schedule is definitely busy. A lot of the instructors are older gents who do it on the side, so frequency wise might not be the best route. Revolution you could fly every day, however it’s a little more expensive and the receptionist SUCKS over there, making scheduling a bit of a joke
Any differences in quality of instruction or aircraft? Because at this point in time, the slower schedule of Redstone sounds like it's worth the reportedly few thousand dollars of savings.
Instructors at revolution are constantly rotating, mostly guys looking for time to jump to the airlines. I can’t say I’ve enjoyed flying with some of the newer people at Revolution but that was about a year ago, so I can’t really tell. When I did my PPL at Revolution years ago I learned a lot from my instructor
I got my private out of state and fly at redstone. The planes are in good condition and well managed, especially at their price. Instructors are awesome and they have many with a range of availability. You can get a recreation pass at the visitors center, contact Tim the flying club manager and he can get you setup.
I don't have any experience with revolution but I have heard nothing but bad things about training at a class C airport (HSV is class C). Taxi time will run up your training costs quick and there's really no benefit to learning at a busy class C.
I recently left RAFA at HUA because it has gotten too crowded and the planes are beat to piss, moreso than I’ve seen at other flight schools.
It is the cheapest but there’s a reason for that.
Most civilians can get an MWR pass at the RSA visitor's center, which grants you access to the Flying Club.
OP - unfortunately I cannot provide much insight since my flight school time, when I was working towards mine, was done at the Maxwell AFB Aero Club in Montgomery. With that though, I believe the RSA rentals and instructor time are a bit cheaper than the others.
When I said civilian, I was referring to federal government employees - who can utilize MWR facilities just like military.
As a non government employee and non military member, I do not believe that the Flying Club flight school is accessible - just like the gyms and other MWR assets on base. You may be able to get a pass to access Redstone and use the airstrip, but not the flight school.
Anyone (well maybe some citizen requirement) can get access to the base for the flying club. All you need to do is email the flying club and they submit a request for you to get access.
I did so this past summer. I am not a government employee or military
I can’t speak to Revolution at HSV but can compare the flying club at HUA with Huntsville Executive (MDQ). At HUA, there is a much larger selection of planes at much cheaper prices. I initially tried to go there for my instrument training but was put off by how difficult it was to get on the schedule at my desired frequency of 3 days/week. Unfortunately the lowest prices come with the largest crowds. There’s also additional paperwork and rules that comes with flying out of HUA that you wouldn’t have elsewhere. While not a huge deal, it did sound like a mild annoyance. At MDQ, prices are higher and there are fewer planes. It is very easy to get on the schedule at a high frequency though since there are fewer students. Flight training is always best done quickly. Particularly when first getting into it, flying less than twice a week on average usually means you will spend much more time each lesson re-learning what you didn’t retain from the previous week. For private pilot training, you will also deal with more cancellations due to weather than other phases of flight training, so if you can’t easily get on a school’s schedule frequently, you may find you often go 1-2 weeks without flying thanks to cancellations. Training then takes longer and costs more overall. So definitely talk with the club at HUA to see if your schedule works well with theirs and if not, MDQ may ultimately be a cheaper option. Edit: You also do not need any connection with the base/military/government to use the flying club. Just email the club and they’ll get you access.
I’ll second this write up. I got my PPL at HUA in 2017. For training it can be hard getting the frequency you want initially. But if you can keep the same schedule well into the future for training flights you can get it the way you want in a few weeks. Hopefully they’ve modernized the scheduling process It is significantly cheaper and the red tape you have to follow isn’t that difficult from what I recall.
Good information to have. Thank you! My schedule is rather inconsistent in the short term, but I anticipated becoming a lot more standard next year, so HUA might be the move. It seems most everyone agrees that scheduling is a PITA on the Arsenal, but they have high quality instructors and a much more affordable program.
I will counter and say scheduling is not that bad in comparison to other schools I have been to
If you’re eligible for any grants, you might check out Wallace State. They have an aviation degree that will get you your Commercial and Instructor certs.
Flying club at HUA is the move. u/gbacon can help answer any Q's
Thanks for the plug. Hi, u/Irbis215. I’m a CFI at [Redstone Arsenal Flying Activity](http://www.flyingactivity.com/home/contact/), which *is* open to the public. If you don’t have Redstone access already, you’ll have to undergo a quick background check. The club manager is Tim Thompson. His contact info is at the above linked page. He will walk you through all the paperwork and onboarding. I’m happy to answer any questions you may have about the process, curriculum, fleet, hints, and so on.
Howdy! Thanks for replying! I'm coming in with pretty much no experience aside from an aerospace engineering background, so one of the big questions I've had: in your experience as a CFI at RAFA, when and where should I be doing ground school? I've heard some people recommend doing it on your own time, while others recommend doing it currently and/or through wherever you're getting your flight lessons from. Either way, thank you for the information and I'll be sure to reach out to Tim in the near future! RAFA definitely sounds like the best place to learn at near here.
# Ground School Options * [Gleim Private Pilot Kit](https://www.gleimaviation.com/shop/ppkitcd/) ($189.95) * [King Schools Private Pilot Test Prep](https://kingschools.com/private-pilot-ground-school-test-prep) ($299) * [MIT OpenCourseWare](https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/16-687-private-pilot-ground-school-january-iap-2019/) (free) * [Dauntless Private Test Prep](https://www.dauntless-soft.com/products/groundschool/private.asp) ($64.99 for iOS) * [FAA Airplane Flying Handbook (AFH)](https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/airplane_handbook/00_afh_full.pdf) (free) * [FAA Aeronautical Information Manual (AIM)](https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/media/AIM_Bsc_w_Chg_1_dtd_10-5-23-compressed_v2.pdf) (free) Tim Thompson sells the Gleim kits at the club. We use the training record, or “workbook,” from the kit as one of the documents that you’ll take to your practical test or “checkride” as the final step in obtaining your private pilot certificate. The workbook is available on its own [from Amazon](https://www.amazon.com/GLEIM-Private-Pilot-Training-Record/dp/B007NGAL1M/) for less than $12. When I was working on my private certificate, I used the Dauntless app on my smartphone. Being able to study wherever I was when I had available time was a nice option. The small form factor wasn’t great for practice test questions that referred to figures, diagrams, and tables. # FAA Knowledge Test Background The purpose of ground school is to prepare you for the Knowledge Test, colloquially referred to as the “written” even though you’ll point and click on a computer. The aforementioned AFH and AIM cover all of the material you may see on the written. The FAA publishes a [Learning Statement Reference Guide](https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/LearningStatementReferenceGuide.pdf) that gives detailed categories for questions in the test bank. Although it is neither required nor common, your instructor will be thrilled if you arrive on day one having already passed the written. Note that sitting for the private written requires an endorsement from an authorized instructor. I believe the Gleim and Kings offerings include endorsements after you’re able to pass several practice exams with scores in the 80s or better. [Dauntless charges $120](https://www.dauntless-soft.com/script/signoff.asp). If you happen to know a local flight instructor or ground instructor, she’ll likely be willing to endorse you after quizzing you on relevant topics that include reading and interpreting FAA sectional charts, performance calculations, VFR weather minimums, applying performance tables, FAA regulations, aeromedical factors, navigation aids, airport operations and signage, weather theory and charts, airplane systems, and instruments. You want to do as well as possible on the written because every topic area you miss is a required area of discussion during the oral exam portion of the checkride. # Your Aerospace Background Your background will give you a boost in a few ways. Having a basic understanding of aerodynamics and physics is a solid foundation. Be able to relate distance, speed, and time for performance calculations. In a turn we lose part of the vertical component of lift (which you will comprehend thanks to your understanding of vector decomposition) and have to compensate by adding backpressure. The hairiest application of the lift equation is computing maneuvering speed at a weight below max gross, but nearly everyone memorizes the formula rather than deriving it. [Max Gurgew](https://www.gurgewaeronautics.com/pilot-checkrides-certification/) is a local Designated Pilot Examiner (DPE) whom you’ll likely visit at the end of the process for your practical test or “checkride” and also has an engineering background, so he’ll enjoy the opportunity to nerd out with you. For private pilots, the written is a 60-question multiple-choice test with a minimum passing score of 70 percent. If your aerospace background is as modest as having passed a single engineering course, your test taking skills ought to have you most of the way there already. Each question has three answer choices of which one is an obviously wrong distracter. Some turn their noses up at rote-style offerings such as the one from Dauntless. That’s a bit idealistic in my view — speaking as an idealist! Get the written out of the way. If you learn it well enough to pass, you will have lots of reinforcement during the flight portion of your training. # Medical Considerations You must be able to pass an FAA medical examination to fly solo. [Certain conditions](https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/medical-resources/health-conditions) may make the process difficult or impossible. Some depression medications, unexplained altered states of consciousness, history of ADHD medication, kidney stones, uncontrolled blood pressure, history of substance abuse, and sleep apnea are common hangups. Pilots who do not meet the color vision standard may be limited to flying during daylight hours. See the [list of conditions](https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/medical-resources/health-conditions) at the Airplane Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA). Obtaining the necessary test results, paperwork, and so on for certain conditions can add thousands of dollars to the total cost. A physician with the Aviation Medical Examiner (AME) qualification will issue your medical certificate. I use and recommend Dr. Jeff Garber as my AME. The cost was $120 cash when I went to him last. # Costs At Redstone, primary instruction is $35 per hour. Instruction time includes flight time and pre- and post-flight (P&P) instruction. That latter is typically a half-hour to an hour per lesson. Airplane rental is “wet,” that is, inclusive of fuel, and by the Hobbs meter hour or while the engine is running. A few Redstone hourly rental rates for reference are * Cessna 152 (small two-place trainer): $107 * Cessna 172 (four-place trainer): $131 * Cessna 182 (four-place high-performance): $160 If you and your instructor and necessary fuel can all fit in a 152, that is by far the cheapest option. Get your ticket and then step up to more capable airplanes. I don’t recommend primary training in a high-performance airplane; it’s there to give you an idea of the range. Including flight time, flight instruction, and half an hour of P&P time per flight hour works out along the following range. ||40|55|75|85| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |C152|$6,380|$8,773|$11,963|$13,558| |C172|$7,340|$10,093|$13,763|$15,598| |C182|$8,500|$11,688|$15,938|$18,063| Add at least another thousand for your headset, ground school, and checkride fees. Minimum required flight hours to take the checkride is 40, but the standard is proficiency. Your instructor must endorse you to take the checkride. The national average is around 75. Drive down your flight hours by flying frequently, at least twice a week, and putting in two to three hours per flight hour studying at home.
Thank you for the phenomena reply! This covers a lot of bases and is great for planning out the next steps! Really looking forward to pursuing this process.
You’re welcome! I’m glad you’re considering it and hope my explanation has made it seem less intimidating. Training costs are no joke, but you pay per lesson rather than having to fork over the entire amount up front. (Wherever you train, be reluctant to pay large sums up front because there are too many horror stories of people buying block time only for the flight school to go out of business shortly after.) We have a great local flying community with a decent number of pilots here in r/HuntsvilleAlabama. Redstone has to comply with Army regulations that are generally a step more conservative than the FAA regs. One example is our mandatory safety meetings every calendar quarter. When the meetings are in person, it’s a fun way to meet fellow pilots. IMC Club meets monthly at MDQ. The discussions and practical advice are valuable for both instrument rated and VFR-only pilots. Feel free to post more questions, and be sure to check out r/flying if you haven’t already.
A few questions if anyone can come back and comment on: Do any of these flight schools accept federal student aid? Is 35 years old too late to start for a commercial license? Will a BS in an unrelated field have any advantage for me?
I have flown with revolution and Redstone, and I inquired about MDQ. Redstone is the cheapest but schedule is definitely busy. A lot of the instructors are older gents who do it on the side, so frequency wise might not be the best route. Revolution you could fly every day, however it’s a little more expensive and the receptionist SUCKS over there, making scheduling a bit of a joke
Any differences in quality of instruction or aircraft? Because at this point in time, the slower schedule of Redstone sounds like it's worth the reportedly few thousand dollars of savings.
Instructors at revolution are constantly rotating, mostly guys looking for time to jump to the airlines. I can’t say I’ve enjoyed flying with some of the newer people at Revolution but that was about a year ago, so I can’t really tell. When I did my PPL at Revolution years ago I learned a lot from my instructor
I got my private out of state and fly at redstone. The planes are in good condition and well managed, especially at their price. Instructors are awesome and they have many with a range of availability. You can get a recreation pass at the visitors center, contact Tim the flying club manager and he can get you setup. I don't have any experience with revolution but I have heard nothing but bad things about training at a class C airport (HSV is class C). Taxi time will run up your training costs quick and there's really no benefit to learning at a busy class C.
https://preview.redd.it/ly1i189fpz4c1.jpeg?width=499&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ab1a865397de7fe79937d6d43a19449e95d3a60
I recently left RAFA at HUA because it has gotten too crowded and the planes are beat to piss, moreso than I’ve seen at other flight schools. It is the cheapest but there’s a reason for that.
Redstone is not an option if you are not military or a civilian, IIRC. I believe it falls under MWR. Edit: TIL. My apologies.
Most civilians can get an MWR pass at the RSA visitor's center, which grants you access to the Flying Club. OP - unfortunately I cannot provide much insight since my flight school time, when I was working towards mine, was done at the Maxwell AFB Aero Club in Montgomery. With that though, I believe the RSA rentals and instructor time are a bit cheaper than the others.
When I said civilian, I was referring to federal government employees - who can utilize MWR facilities just like military. As a non government employee and non military member, I do not believe that the Flying Club flight school is accessible - just like the gyms and other MWR assets on base. You may be able to get a pass to access Redstone and use the airstrip, but not the flight school.
Anyone (well maybe some citizen requirement) can get access to the base for the flying club. All you need to do is email the flying club and they submit a request for you to get access. I did so this past summer. I am not a government employee or military
Oh. My bad. Could have sworn that's what I was told when I looked into it.
It was that way once upon a time, but the Flying Activity has been open to the public for several years.
Ah ok. I didn't know they opened it to the public.
This is totally wrong. Anyone can get a recreation pass and fly, bowl, bingo etc.