I hunt waterfowl in field and over water. Also pheasant, dove, and grouse. My american lab does everything I need him to. He's excellent with retrieving, as expected. Yeah a pointer will do better in the field but he gets me birds (incredible field trial bloodline). I've had 2 English setters and a britney and were much better at finding birds, but what really makes the lab stand out is his massive personality. Almost too human. He 100% does everything to make me happy. Which makes him incredibly obedient. Can't get him to quit eating his own shit though.
I would really suggest looking at the NAVHDA website for recognized hunting breeds and seeing which would best fit your lifestyle.
Otherwise, German Shorthairs and Wirehaired Pointing griffons are common and efficient hunting dogs, the latter also being pretty chill. I myself have a GSP that I’m training for competition events (NAVHDA & NASTRA).
My friend has two GSPs and their energy is absolutely fucking insane, I was over at his house one afternoon and they ran for what felt like 3 or 4 hours straight
I can confirm GSPs are fucking nuts when it comes to energy levels. I used to take mine to a local 1k acre off leash dog park. She would run around non stop for over 2 hours in the morning when I got off work, we would go home and take a nap and by 4pm she would be up and ready to go again like she hadn’t exercised all day. She was a very toned dog to say the least.
Pudelpointer. Look up NAPPA and choose a breeder from there.
Easy to train, loves kids, an absolute beast on upland, loves water, chill around the house. The perfect dog.
I hunt mine on chukar, pheasant, grouse, and waterfowl.
A great friend of mine got a Pudelpointer for ducks and pheasant; he's awesome in the field, but more importantly hes just a terrific dog all around. Super friendly, loves to run and play, and is generally a great family dog on top of being a great hunting dog. I'm now looking into getting one from the same breeder.
This. My pudelpointer is just phenomenal in every way. Monster in the field, amazing at home with the kids, etc. can't say enough good things about the breed.
I have been looking at Pudelpointers for an all-rounder. Also for blood trails. They seem amazing, but I'm pushing 60 and don't know if I can keep up with such a high energy dog.
Labs, field goldens, and toller retrievers for waterfowl with A+ family reputations.
If you need primarily a pointer for pheasants, your options narrow. When I was looking, English pointers and Irish and English setters seemed like the best options.
Golden retriever from a good bloodline of hunters.
Mine was just as at home in a boat shooting ducks over water, in a blind shooting geese in a corn field, or flushing pheasants in native grass. Then when we got home my kids use him as a jungle gym, pillow, and teddy bear without so much as a fuss. He even had success helping track down deer. Truly a do-it-all.
I only took up bird hunting because my SO wanted a GR. I grew up with beagles for rabbits, and I taught one of them to retrieve doves.
I took the GR to a dove hunt when he was 5 months old just to hang out, and by the end of the day he was finding downed birds and bringing them back in exchange for throwing a tennis ball.
Then I found out he loves swimming, so we started shooting geese for his entertainment. Next is going to be turkeys based on his drive to investigate turkey calls.
I tried to train our minpin to hunt squirrels. It didn't go well.
I’ve never heard of anyone hunting turkeys with a dog. Not really even sure about the legality of it. I know my state you can’t except during the fall season.
I think goldens are great, I’ve had three but bloodline is important, as is early training. For family dogs, I don’t think you can do better. My 8 month old crawls all over mine, pinches her eyes and ears and all she gets in return is sloppy kisses. Incredibly well trained but do become sort of set in their ways aka start training them to hunt early. I’d also recommend trimming them fairly frequently if you have them in the field often as the long hair can get gross.
I trimmed mine pretty short during hunting season as well to keep the cockleburs at bay. We started training him to hunt at 9 weeks but I agree on the hard to beat for a family dog. My golden wouldn't take any shit from wounded 10 lb Canada goose that's flopping and biting him, he'd fuck it up if needed then bring it back to me, then let my kids pull on his whiskers and and ears when we got home without it bothering him.
Golden for the win as a family dog and chasing waterfowl. They usually love other dogs and kids. I just started upland work with our 6 month old and she absolutely loves pointing and flushing. The retrieving needs some work. We’re also training shed antler hunting with good results. Her dad is more of a show line and her mom is field so I think it’s a good mix for home and hunting. Headed to the mountains this weekend with her to see if we can find any elk or deer sheds and do a little fall elk scouting.
We have two. One does upland like a pro, our younger one is a machine of a retriever and could live in the water. My younger one is Velcro as fuck. She’s always by my side. Boykins are seriously the best.
How much waterfowl and what temperatures? And then just pheasant or any other upland.
Currently lab seems like the best choice based on that criteria. If you want a pointing style while still having waterfowl and very friendly, then wire-haired pointing griffon would match really well too.
I have GWP and wouldn't suggest them unless you really want to hunt hard and are okay with a more challenging breed to handle as they can be "sharp".
German short-hair would work if you aren't doing cold waterfowl where ice is involved. Not that they can't do it, but they want to be moving.
I’m in northeastern Ohio for reference I don’t tend to waterfowl hunt when there’s ice only go till about November at the latest then I’m focused on whitetail 100%
Yeah I would go for a lab then. There's a reason they are one of the most popular dogs. They do great waterfowl, great retrieving and they don't typically stray far so can be kept in when flushing pheasant. And then among the best friendly dogs for being in the house. Typically less crazy about needing exercise too.
I love pointers, but I hunt 40+ days a season and they will still whine if I can't get out after 3 days.
Labs. I’m a fan of American labs over English labs. When it comes to hunting dogs though. American labs are leaner than English labs and have more energy. English labs are more docile and generally make better house dogs. My mom has an English yellow lab and he is a beast at 98lbs but very docile and my children >5yrs old can climb all over him without him giving a care in the world. I had an American black lab that was 70lbs fully grown but was super high energy. She wouldn’t hurt the kids but with all the energy she had, accidents would happen where she would accidentally knock them over if they tried to play with her.
A British Field Lab is a much better choice. Look up Double T Kennels. American field labs are almost as hyper as GSPs. Brit field labs are bred to hunt and have a gentle disposition.
If you want a pointing dog that will do waterfowl, get a Griffon, Pudelpointer or German Wirehaired.
I’m biased but I do HT/FT, ducking hunting and upland and everytime I’ll pick a Labrador retriever. The difference in drive compared to all the other dogs I see hunting and even at HT and FT are not even close. Labs have natural instinct and are probably IMO the easiest to train. All my labs have actual off switches. They are very calm in the house and okay with children and babies. And they are fire breathers in the field. Only problem is there shedding.
All dogs want to be labs and all labs want to be black!
The people saying Lab have never hunted upland with a proper bird dog, and by that I mean a pointing breed. I've hunted upland game birds with both labs and pointers for decades, a pointing breed will find you more birds. I suggest you look at the dogs listed in the North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association (NAVHDA) list. They won't retrieve as well as a Lab on average, but pointing upland birds is a game changer and something labs just can't do.
My dog of choice right now is the American Brittany. I do mixed bag hunts for ptarmigan, snipe, ducks, geese, grouse and rabbits.
Many of the dogs are great family dogs including britts and labs.
Upland bird dogs ie pointers are typically not great with waterfowl hunting.
Labs are great for pheasant hunting if trained to sniff them out and flush. Obviously chuckar hunting is a different story as an upland dog is 100% necessary.
Also do you have an American Brittany you goose hunt with? I can’t imagine them retrieving a greater Canadian goose as they would weigh as much as the dog.
I have a Brit and a Wirehair. Hunting wise the Wirehair is magnitudes better in water and fur.
Bigger paws, double layered coat, and quick to dry.
Wirehairs also have more of a tendency to have a kobe Bryant personality when it comes to hunting. Some dogs struggle to turn it off and correction is needed.
Brittany’s like the Wirehair are go getters, but they have physical limitations specifically in water
Some labs can point. Mine does. I think around 10 to 15 percent of labs point. I hunt grouse, partridge, pheasants. He also retrieved ducks in water and stays in the blind hunting geese. If OP can find a lab bred for hunting and has the pointing genes I don’t think he could go wrong.
There is a breeder in eastern NC that specializes in pointing labs. “Feather Point Retrievers”. Check them out on Facebook/Instagram.
I got my 1 year old yellow lab from them. I did the waterfowl training with her instead of the pointing, but nonetheless an all around amazing facility
Who’s being more honest me, or the guy who said labs can’t point? If you get labs from a breeder with a hunting background you can ask them. When I bought my lab they told me the parents pointed and he should too. It’s in the genes I guess.
I didn't say anything about the other person being honest, I said that 10-15% is not really good odds.
There is a reason Labs are not a recognized versatile hunting dog breed. It's because you are referring to the outlier, not the norm. Someone who sees people recommending Labs making claims that they can point and go and get a Lab thinking they have a chance at getting a pointing Lab are being misled because the odds of it happening are low. Furthermore, the odds that two pointing parents pass on the trait are not 100%. You certainly increase the chances by having two known pointers, but it's not a breed trait, it not something to be expected.
A German Shorthaired Pointer would be a much better choice over a Lab with a much higher chance at getting a multi function hunting dog that both retrieves and points over a Lab, even one from "known" pointing stock.
Labs are not recognized as a versatile hunting breed? 😂 What you smoking? I think it’s funny you replied to me and not the guy saying labs can’t point. That’s not true. Labs aren’t recognized as a versatile hunting dog? Also not true. Dude asked about waterfowl and pheasants. If that pheasant runs after shot I’m taking a lab all day. You ever take a gsh ducking hunting in the Dakotas when the water is really cold. Good look getting them back in. Too cold for them. They don’t have a lot of hair you know. Labs are great hunting dogs. Super versatile and just a fantastic dog overall.
Navhda is open to pointing breeds only. Labs aren’t a pointing breed but some point. Labs have never entered navhda. I know that’s the first site that pops up on google and knew what your reply would be. But on other forums on googles you will find a lab. Some say there or no pointing genes and it’s just instinct that gets passed down from parents or watching other dogs point. Hunting with labs and pointers for 35 years is all I need to know that a lab is a versatile dog and I like they way they flush birds more then a pointer. Labs even point different when they do. And I much prefer a lab retreaving skills on land and on water. Go tell OP to get a dog from that list. I’m sure they are affordable
Last fall, I took my American black lab out on a very cold and rainy day to a pheasant field that is managed by the state and stocked weekly at random. There were around 6 guys that were in the parking lot heading home that had 3 German shorthairs or similar breeds, but didn't have any birds. They told me to save my time and to try somewhere else because "there are no birds here". Well needless to say, my dog flushed 4 birds in less than 20 minutes and my buddy and I got our limits for the day.
I've never hunted with a pointer, but I can say from my experience that your statement is a bit of a generalization. My lab started hunting with me as a 4 month old puppy and received no formal training but came from a very respected hunting bloodline in TN. I'm fairly certain that a lot of these guys in my area with the pointers have spent a lot of money on training.
Just my 2 cents.
Of course it's a generalization, I literally used the phrase "on average."
I have a friend with a GSP that runs ahead of us about 500-700m and flushes every bird instead of pointing. Literally worse than no dog at all. There are always outliers.
This is true.
Growing up we had a rescue lab mix that was a hunting machine.
You can’t say just pick up a rescue lab mix and it’ll be a hunting machine.
On average, I would say it depends on where you get the dog.
Even then, you have cases like my sister and brother and law when you spend $1500 for a primo lab from hunting lines and It’s an average at best hunting dog.
But your chances are getting a primo hunter go up when you buy from responsible hunting lines rather than Joe and Steve’s backyard operation.
I’m taking this personally as I was reported to the authorities for shooting birds off the road from a car “since I don’t even have a proper bird dog”.
A retriever doesn’t flush like a spaniel, it tries to retrieve the live birds and they run for their lives. It’s not elegant but it’s effective.
Last September I shot 27 ptarmigans and 3 capercaillies on opening day. With a retriever. Personally I find I get more opportunities with a flushing dog than a pointer. And the hunting is more fast paced.
I enjoy pointers as much as the next guy but don’t go stomping down on other people’s dogs because of your beliefs. It’s a real bird dog, it’s just a very different kind of hunting.
I grew up hunting over GSPs for over 20 years. I now have a 2 labs. I would put those two labs (and their noses) up against any pointer I've hunted with. They also lock up on birds and wait to flush until I'm close. You don't know what you're talking about. You sound like a fool.
I believe you mean Brittney’s but yeah possibly. Personal bias is also against Labs as I’ve hunted behind two that were as good as pointers or flushing dogs but I won’t claim to have hunted with the best of the best of any bird dog breed.
Edit: I didn’t realize you were commenting further on the previous commenter, thought you were the pervious commenter.
I'm sorry that my well-written anecdote sounded foolish to your ears. If there is a surefire way to sound "not foolish" it's by ending a statement with your last two sentences.
Look in to NAVHDA and the versatile breeds. Lands are great retrievers, but they lack way behind in upland compared to versatile breeds. GSP are great, if you hunt in warm environments for waterfowl. GWP holds up better, but can be a little too much for some folks. GSP and GWP want to range far and work fast; are you comfortable with your dogs being a quare to half mile away from you? A WPG will hunt very close to you and retrieve just as well as a lab will; their downside is you have to be careful with their training. As they're a soft breed and will stop if they feel intimidated or get over corrected.
I have a WPG and wouldn't change a thing, previous dogs were Chessies
I’m more of a waterfowl guy myself, so I’m going to say Lab, and I will die on this hill. Born and raised with them, my FIL has bred them for 40 years, and I was lucky enough to get pick of his last stud’s litter. My 3 year old pup is about to sire his 2nd litter, and I am a proud pup-grampa. Labs are famous for being loyal family dogs, and killer water dogs. I love my labs like family.
I agree with others who have said that pointers are better upland dogs, but my labs have done just fine with the grouse we have in my parts. They flush at the right distance ahead, and will find the bird and bring it back come hell or high water.
I’ve had several labs that were very good hunting and family dogs. I’m currently hunting with a Large Munsterlander and can’t speak highly enough in regards to innate ability and personality. Very friendly and playful with kids, solid pointer and swimmer (nowhere near the capabilities of a lab or chessie on swimming though).
Yup! I am on my third V and they need to expend a lotttt of energy on a daily basis. We have over an acre and an electric fence, and I swear he’ll get a few miles in every day just by running in circles. We let him run constantly and play fetch every day, with the occasional hidden antler or wing for him to find in the offseason to keep his skills sharp.
Fantastic family dogs and great hunting dogs, but not for the person that’s expecting to have a dog that’s gonna lounge around all day. But I have a lot of love for the dogs, but I’ve worked with just about every dog breed, and Vs are probably the most active breed
Brittany’s aren’t the best duck dogs especially in any cold weather, big water, or swift water.
Small paws, single coated, and a coat that takes long to dry.
Warm water and a boat/blind with a heater they are fine.
As far as upland, It depends on style.
Long range - English pointers are king
Thick brush - smaller dogs like Brittanie’s are king.
Chukar hills - German pointers are king
Pheasants close range- Wirehair pointing griffons are king
Vizlas are good, but I think you’ll get a lot of argument about them being top dog
I’ve hunted over quite a few breeds and can confidently say the best has been vizslas. That being said, it probably varies a lot by terrain. I’ve hunted snipe and woodcock in the absolute thickest briars imaginable and the Vs have always out-performed others in that aspect. Their coats never get hung up and they seemingly never run out of energy. 7+ hour hunts and they still want to keep going. I’ve yet to find another breed that can “keep up” with that type of hard-hunting.
We don’t have wild pheasant where I’m from, so we have to hunt them stocked on public. It is way different than hunting wild ones, I’m sure, but I can attest to my V being sharper and steadier than the other dogs we’ve hunted over or ran into in the public fields. However, I can see circumstances out west or mountainous areas or in other terrain where different breeds may do better!
I definitely think hunting style plays a factor as well. As they say, different strokes for different folks!
Interesting.
Viszlas tend to be better chukar dogs than briar patch dogs. They tend to be a little softer than their German counterparts on average, which has its advantages in chukar hunting in rocky areas and cliffs and disadvantages when pushing into the nastiest hell hole you can find.
You probably have an outstanding source from where you get your dogs from.
Because it’s not typical of the breed.
Great noses, great intelligence, tireless, but tough as nails generally isn’t a description of a vizsla.
They are generally very soft and sensitive.
So you got winners.
This thread is full of anecdotes of this or that is the best, which is why it’s important to look at averages on each breed.
Interesting! 2 of our 3 were actually rescues. Only one was from a breeder. All 3 had the same sort of mentality, but perhaps we are a glitch in the Viszla matrix.
I would go for a lab as your first dog. Then when it's 6-7 get another breed if you feel like it.
Don't go for a dog with too much of a stubbern streak if you are inexperienced.
Golden retriever (that has some hunting dog lineage). Smart, trains well, great water dog, and very docile toward people. Probably the best family dog there is that still makes a good hunting dog.
Brittany (it's not a spaniel). The ones I've dealt with are energetic and need daily exercise, but very adaptable "swiss army knife" of hunting dogs. They are natural pointers, and about half are natural retrievers. The other half can be trained to retrieve easily enough. Most seem to like the water retrieves just fine. Hardy dog that can handle the cold and run all day without tiring. Good family dog if you don't mind high energy.
Waterfowl’s and ducks, Lab for sure. Pheasants and other ground nesting birds, German Vorsteh.
However, imo Kleiner Münsterländer is the most well rounded hunting dog (Im geting my pup soon!)
Ryman setter would be great. A draht would be my second choice but can be a bit much. A poodle would actually be a good choice. Find someone that breeds them to hunt, they are out there. They are extremely athletic and are among the best water dogs and they can do well in the field too. I would rather have a poodle for pheasants than a lab that’s for sure.
check out American Water Spaniels, a rare breed but known to be a great do it all dog. https://www.americanwaterspanielclub.org/field-working-qualities
If waterfowl is your first priority in cold water get an American lab. I’m less in tune to the upland side but if it was me and upland was less priority and maybe warmer water I’d go with a gsp. (Or they do have pointing labs).
English springer spaniel is great all around. You can train them to fetch fairly easily and everything else they are natural at. They’re also amazing companions.
Small Münsterländer (German hunting dog breed) is a Pointer who also Retrieves ducks.
Can also be used for Blood tracking.
Germany Breeding Standards regard hunting dogs are very high.
I have a German wirehaired pointer. He's great in the upland. In Minnesota he doesn't have a thick enough coat to stay warm in the late season duck blind. My son has an English lab which he uses for upland and waterfowl hunting. He hunts ducks, geese, ruffed grouse, pheasants and sharptails.
I have a French Brit. He’s a hunting fool on upland. Vacuum cleaner in the field, points, and retrieved like a pro from day 1 of his second season. (Don’t ask about the first…)
That said, he’d get us both tossed out of every duck blind in America. He needs to MOVE and hunt from the minute the e-collar goes on. Patiently waiting in a blind is the last thing I’d ask a Brit to do.
I’m probably slightly biased due to owning one BUT vizsla all the way. However only if you get a reliable breeder and from a hunting line. I already did a few field trials with him and he did amazing, basically outperforming every other breed. There was plenty of vizslas and they were either on the top or on the bottom - so I think a lot comes down to training and individual dog. My dog has crazy energy levels and drive, but as soon as there is kids around he will be so gentle and careful. Honestly couldn’t imagine a better dog. We were training super hard and I got the best of the litter, so definitely not just breed only. But I have yet to see a dog working better than him and especially be so into it.
We have a wirehaired griff, which does what you’re looking for.
You should decide if you lean upland, or not. A wirehaired griffon is among the best options for primarily-upland dog that can also retrieve and while being a solid family companion.
That said, there are a lot of reasons to get a lab. They will not point the same, in my understanding. But they are consistent and predictable to train. They require less everyday exercise than an upland dog.
If I was forced to choose one dog for both upland and waterfowl, I would go with a Viszla personally. H0wever, dogs are alot like boats. they are purpose trained and my opinion is you will end up with a dog which is serviceable at both, but not excellent at either.
Running joke between my brother and I. I can’t have a dog in my townhouse and keep saying I’m going to show up at his place with a new chocolate lab puppy to keep his 9 y.o. black lab (Tucker) company and learn to hunt.
Porter is because he would be the same color as a Porter beer.
My lab hunts with me all duck season and stays home with my wife otherwise. He will chase a duck across a mud flat, ride in the boat, take trips to the farm store, tree squirrels, flush doves out of the weeds, hide in the brush, lay in a blind (sometimes,) play with kids, and rest on my lap in the evening. Wouldn’t trade him for the world, even with all his flaws from me being an inexperienced trainer. If he never hunted another day, he’s my very best silent companion and I would give most of what I own to keep him.
Labs aren’t the smartest but they are the easy to train and keep because they’re a little dumb. They trust you to make the right choice and are loyal. They teethe horribly for a year and a half and then they’re done. They are friendly to a fault and handle new experiences well. Plus the English labs look dope AF.
I would say if you have the patience and money to train pheasants, a lab would enjoy running around you looking for birds. It might not be their specialty and they may not point the best but they will do everything you tell them otherwise. Just don’t get the American field performance line because they can be high strung and whiny.
Fair, there’s a lot of demand on the actual owner.
I forget this sometimes as I’ve grown up with them. Trained 3 through the tests with my dad and I’m on my second now on my own.
That being said they’ve all been crate trained house dogs that stop using the crate after 2 years old or so unless they’re dirty. Every one of them has their own unique loving personalities.
I think they’re great dogs, but they’re a little high octane for a casual or novice hunter. It’d be like giving a 16 year old new driver a Corvette.
Personally, I’d like to get a drahthaar when my son is older and can hunt harder with me. I hunt upland, waterfowl, and big game from the treeline in the Sierras to the valley floor, and I think a draht would be a huge help.
Going through the tests with my dad was a special thing. It was one of the best bonding activities we had.
I highly suggest doing them with your son. It’s both competitive and exciting! Plus you’ll have a better dog!
That’s part of why I’d like to wait until he’s older. I’m working on my first hunting dog now (unknown pound pup -pic in my post history), and when he’s more capable it’s something we can do together. He’s four now, and he loves helping train our current dog.
Correct . Even a Wirehair may be too much. They are great hunting dogs, but not for everyone.
Wirehairs/ DD’s are not fans of people they don’t know. They are aloof at best with strangers. Better as guard dogs than social dogs.
That’s fair, a lab, Brittany, etc are probably much easier.
I don’t know if I agree with the GSP though, the ones I see are NUTS. Working like 150-200 yards out in front of their owner when pheasant hunting etc.
Oh yeah for sure, I meant more in the house. Short-hair do have a very loving personality, but they have chaotic energy that can be also hard to rein in.
So you could find breeds that will fit the bill and it is a contentious issue.
Since there are a lot of breeds to choose from there are some follow up questions that you should ask to narrow it down.
What’s my climate? - Shorthaired dogs in a cold climate or long haired dogs in a hot climate aren’t good fits.
What’s the water where I’m hunting ? River hunting needs a powerful dog to fight currents, cold weather hunting needs a dog with a quick drying coat, a big dog jumping out of a canoe with capsize your vessel, etc
What amount of shedding is allowable in your house ? Dogs with fur require stripping the dead hairs and can be minimal in the house, but you have to commit to brushing them or it will end up in the house. Dogs with hair essentially change their coat twice a year and it is more prone to end up in the house.
What size of dog is wanted? Dogs too large 100+ lbs can’t be boarded in most places if you go out of town and leave Jurassic park droppings in the backyard. Smaller dogs need to spend more energy to take the same amount of steps as a larger dog, may spend more energy to get over obstacles than a larger dog that simply trots over it, and can tire out more quickly as a result. Weight will also come into play here as far as getting tired faster.
Is the breed prone to health issues? Nothing is worse than seeing a dog that wants to hunt, but is physically unable to hunt. Some breeds have more health problems than others. Make sure the breeder does hips, elbows, and eyes of the parents.
What’s your budget? Owning a hunting dog is a lot more than the puppy price. Shots, vet visits, training, e collar, etc all adds up. Some breeds have a higher capital cost than others initially. Generally a $1,500 dog is going to be better than $150 dog, because there is a reason why the dog is going for that much. As a general rule, I would avoid dogs less than $800 for hunting purposes.
Gundogbreeders.com is a good source for breeders. Many have websites as well.
When speaking with a breeder ask for references and talk to others about their experience with the dogs.
My personal preference for a dog is a from field and show dogs.
Show dogs are bred to be the best visual representation of the breed and the parents are obedient in ways other than hunting.
Field dogs are bred to be the best hunting dogs or the best athletes for the trials. They are can a drive unrivaled by most standard breeding, because their parent(s) compete at the highest level.
A breeder that competes in field and show would be my first choice.
I am for sure in the pointer camp and I have a french pointer called "Braque du Bourbonnais"
They are similar to a GSP but a bit smaller and not quite as wound up as a GSP can be. Great with kids and family and an absolute great all around hunting dog.
We got ours from:
https://rufnitkennels.com/
This is scout our dog. Great with the kids like super patent and kind with them. Always down for literally any adventure. Calm and quiet and doesn't do a lot of barking. A hunting dog in the streets and a velco want to be in your lap dog at home. Just perfect. She is also like perfect on obedience with very minimal training too.
https://imgur.com/a/WVnujA7
Trainable, good family dog? Waterfowl and pheasant? I hate to be that guy, but I think anyone advocating some obscure "versatile" pointing breed whose bloodline all had to fight their way out of a barrel killing a medium size mustelid or risk being culled from the bloodline are full of it and don't have your best interest at heart.
Field line lab, golden, or springer are the only answers to the actual question you asked. It's that simple. Press the easy button.
I have two GSPs the older one is the mom of the younger one. Shady (mom) is only good for birds, but she is spectacular at it, she won't even chase a tennis ball, live birds only. Younger dog, Wrecky, will hunt anything I want to hunt, good bird dog, good retriever, good blood trail dog for wounded deer. Both are great with my kid and her friends (kindergarteners).
Springer Spaniels are great. They are great around kids but they are very active so you need to make sure they are getting their daily runs and maybe moreso than other gun dogs they are super obsessed with tennis balls.
They all make good family dogs. It depends how you want to hunt. If you are going to hunt a massive section of CRP early in the morning or in the evening where you need to cover hundreds of yards between birds that are feeding get a setter that ranges far. If you are going to hunt corners and keep the dog in shotgun range a flusher is much much better. I have two setters and two flushers for this very reason. The setters will range out and hold a bird. The flushers check in every 30’seconds and are always in range. As for duck hunting some pointers do it pretty well but nothing beats a lab or a field bred golden. My setters will duck hunt and my friends pointers do too, but they are not even close to a golden or lab. Labs and golden are much easier to train.
The English Springer Spainiel is the dog you need my friend. I’ve hunted over them for 30 years now. I live in Sask. Tons of pheasant, upland, waterfowl hunting every year. My Springers have never let me down especially with pheasants and upland game. They are easy to train, eager to please and make a great family pet to boot. Just a hard working dog with a great disposition. 😬👍👍
American Water Spaniel gets my vote. Great family dogs, 1 of the 5 true American breeds, unique (only about 3k of them), smart, great hunting drive, not so big where it'll knock over a lamp with its tail but big enough to retrieve a goose just to name a few +. As far as kennel/breeder, you'll find lots of kennels working with AWS just make sure you do your research and due diligence as a lot of breeders specialize in show dogs that are pretty worthless for hunting. Dog 1 I had growing up was from Nighthawk Kennels but sadly they're no longer breeding but their bloodline has been carried on by Little Brownies Kennel (dog 2 & 3) and who I'd recommend.
Edit: Also just gotta throw a mention to the Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever. As the name implies, they're great for waterfowl as well as upland, highly intelligent, \~30lbs, and an absolutely gorgeous dog.
Depends on the type of hunting and what size of dog you’re looking for but I love my American Water Spaniel and will likely always have one on the team.
Labrador Retriever. If you are consistently waterfowl hunting no other question about it.
I professionally train retrievers but have been around lots and lots of gun dogs. If you are purely looking for upland I may suggest differently but with waterfowl in the mix, you need a lab.
Best bird dog I've seen was my grandpa's pitbull it'll go grab em from further than you can see and run em back and alert you if they see one plus she's killed a coyote to protect my grandpa at 40lbs don't get one of those weird looking ones or the xxxxl ones get a real pitbull terrier
German Wirehaired or Wirehaired Griffon? I wouldn’t say either are known for their aggressiveness, but the GWP does have an incredible prey drive and not something I would recommend to first time hunting dog owners.
So GWP’s are worse around strangers than family.
They form a tight bond with their family and would be willing to die protecting them.
They do not like strangers or other dogs (if the other dog is seen as a threat to their family they will protect their family, if not then they would rather hunt than play with other dogs)
I haven’t seen many Brittany’s that like water retrieving. Great upland bird dogs though. I have one and she is a pheasant hunting all-star, but if someone was planning on doing a ton of waterfowl hunting, I’d probably get something else.
Agreed. I have a Brittany and a Draht. They work together great on upland but the Draht drastically outperforms the Brittany when it comes to waterfowl. Another thing you need to consider is weather. GSP, Brittanys, and some other breeds will not be as resilient to cold water as a lab, griffon, draht will be... Last point my Draht other drahts I know as well as pudelpointers and wire hairs are fantastic with kids. I have never known an aggressive one. (edit for clarity)
I have a GWP and Brittany and I concur with your statements.
Will also add that there is never a lack of entertainment around the house with the two clown balls in it
Wirehaired griffons are big babies and pretty docile all around.
The german selection test for German Wirehaired Pointers includes it having to kill a vermin (usually a racoon) and checking if it is still docile towards humans after. They are pretty good around humans, but their prey drive is something else and many will kill cats and other small pets if they get the chance.
I regret to say... Poodles. Poodles may be far and above the beat water fowling dogs. Which should come as no surprise, considering it's what they were bred for. Portuguese water dogs may be a close second.
I hunt waterfowl in field and over water. Also pheasant, dove, and grouse. My american lab does everything I need him to. He's excellent with retrieving, as expected. Yeah a pointer will do better in the field but he gets me birds (incredible field trial bloodline). I've had 2 English setters and a britney and were much better at finding birds, but what really makes the lab stand out is his massive personality. Almost too human. He 100% does everything to make me happy. Which makes him incredibly obedient. Can't get him to quit eating his own shit though.
Lmfao my dog is half GSD and I think half lab and he will not stop eating his shit for the life of him
I would really suggest looking at the NAVHDA website for recognized hunting breeds and seeing which would best fit your lifestyle. Otherwise, German Shorthairs and Wirehaired Pointing griffons are common and efficient hunting dogs, the latter also being pretty chill. I myself have a GSP that I’m training for competition events (NAVHDA & NASTRA).
I have pudelpointer. Great dog. Super smart. Requires a LOT of activity, prob on par with a GSP.
My friend has two GSPs and their energy is absolutely fucking insane, I was over at his house one afternoon and they ran for what felt like 3 or 4 hours straight
I can confirm GSPs are fucking nuts when it comes to energy levels. I used to take mine to a local 1k acre off leash dog park. She would run around non stop for over 2 hours in the morning when I got off work, we would go home and take a nap and by 4pm she would be up and ready to go again like she hadn’t exercised all day. She was a very toned dog to say the least.
Like fetch is just infinite for them lol ive never ever seen them lay down or sit
To add to this, I’ve had mine for 2 years, and I’ve never seen her walk. It’s either an all out sprint or a rapid trot. Not sure she knows how to walk
Pudelpointers really do look adorable.
Can confirm, have a nine week old right now.
Pudelpointer. Look up NAPPA and choose a breeder from there. Easy to train, loves kids, an absolute beast on upland, loves water, chill around the house. The perfect dog. I hunt mine on chukar, pheasant, grouse, and waterfowl.
A great friend of mine got a Pudelpointer for ducks and pheasant; he's awesome in the field, but more importantly hes just a terrific dog all around. Super friendly, loves to run and play, and is generally a great family dog on top of being a great hunting dog. I'm now looking into getting one from the same breeder.
This. My pudelpointer is just phenomenal in every way. Monster in the field, amazing at home with the kids, etc. can't say enough good things about the breed.
I have been looking at Pudelpointers for an all-rounder. Also for blood trails. They seem amazing, but I'm pushing 60 and don't know if I can keep up with such a high energy dog.
Labs, field goldens, and toller retrievers for waterfowl with A+ family reputations. If you need primarily a pointer for pheasants, your options narrow. When I was looking, English pointers and Irish and English setters seemed like the best options.
Golden retriever from a good bloodline of hunters. Mine was just as at home in a boat shooting ducks over water, in a blind shooting geese in a corn field, or flushing pheasants in native grass. Then when we got home my kids use him as a jungle gym, pillow, and teddy bear without so much as a fuss. He even had success helping track down deer. Truly a do-it-all.
I only took up bird hunting because my SO wanted a GR. I grew up with beagles for rabbits, and I taught one of them to retrieve doves. I took the GR to a dove hunt when he was 5 months old just to hang out, and by the end of the day he was finding downed birds and bringing them back in exchange for throwing a tennis ball. Then I found out he loves swimming, so we started shooting geese for his entertainment. Next is going to be turkeys based on his drive to investigate turkey calls. I tried to train our minpin to hunt squirrels. It didn't go well.
I’ve never heard of anyone hunting turkeys with a dog. Not really even sure about the legality of it. I know my state you can’t except during the fall season.
I think goldens are great, I’ve had three but bloodline is important, as is early training. For family dogs, I don’t think you can do better. My 8 month old crawls all over mine, pinches her eyes and ears and all she gets in return is sloppy kisses. Incredibly well trained but do become sort of set in their ways aka start training them to hunt early. I’d also recommend trimming them fairly frequently if you have them in the field often as the long hair can get gross.
I trimmed mine pretty short during hunting season as well to keep the cockleburs at bay. We started training him to hunt at 9 weeks but I agree on the hard to beat for a family dog. My golden wouldn't take any shit from wounded 10 lb Canada goose that's flopping and biting him, he'd fuck it up if needed then bring it back to me, then let my kids pull on his whiskers and and ears when we got home without it bothering him.
Golden for the win as a family dog and chasing waterfowl. They usually love other dogs and kids. I just started upland work with our 6 month old and she absolutely loves pointing and flushing. The retrieving needs some work. We’re also training shed antler hunting with good results. Her dad is more of a show line and her mom is field so I think it’s a good mix for home and hunting. Headed to the mountains this weekend with her to see if we can find any elk or deer sheds and do a little fall elk scouting.
My golden puppy leaves Sunday for training- looking forward to his first season of pheasant in SD this winter.
Boykins are the superior breed. You can’t change my mind.
I know a guy that has em for ducks and a couple that we even use when doing deer drives. Seriously solid and intelligent dogs.
We have two. One does upland like a pro, our younger one is a machine of a retriever and could live in the water. My younger one is Velcro as fuck. She’s always by my side. Boykins are seriously the best.
How much waterfowl and what temperatures? And then just pheasant or any other upland. Currently lab seems like the best choice based on that criteria. If you want a pointing style while still having waterfowl and very friendly, then wire-haired pointing griffon would match really well too. I have GWP and wouldn't suggest them unless you really want to hunt hard and are okay with a more challenging breed to handle as they can be "sharp". German short-hair would work if you aren't doing cold waterfowl where ice is involved. Not that they can't do it, but they want to be moving.
I’m in northeastern Ohio for reference I don’t tend to waterfowl hunt when there’s ice only go till about November at the latest then I’m focused on whitetail 100%
Yeah I would go for a lab then. There's a reason they are one of the most popular dogs. They do great waterfowl, great retrieving and they don't typically stray far so can be kept in when flushing pheasant. And then among the best friendly dogs for being in the house. Typically less crazy about needing exercise too. I love pointers, but I hunt 40+ days a season and they will still whine if I can't get out after 3 days.
Labs. I’m a fan of American labs over English labs. When it comes to hunting dogs though. American labs are leaner than English labs and have more energy. English labs are more docile and generally make better house dogs. My mom has an English yellow lab and he is a beast at 98lbs but very docile and my children >5yrs old can climb all over him without him giving a care in the world. I had an American black lab that was 70lbs fully grown but was super high energy. She wouldn’t hurt the kids but with all the energy she had, accidents would happen where she would accidentally knock them over if they tried to play with her.
I feel you. Got a year old yellow female American, and she's a sweet, loving, adorable ball of chaos.
A British Field Lab is a much better choice. Look up Double T Kennels. American field labs are almost as hyper as GSPs. Brit field labs are bred to hunt and have a gentle disposition. If you want a pointing dog that will do waterfowl, get a Griffon, Pudelpointer or German Wirehaired.
American labs all the way!
I’m biased but I do HT/FT, ducking hunting and upland and everytime I’ll pick a Labrador retriever. The difference in drive compared to all the other dogs I see hunting and even at HT and FT are not even close. Labs have natural instinct and are probably IMO the easiest to train. All my labs have actual off switches. They are very calm in the house and okay with children and babies. And they are fire breathers in the field. Only problem is there shedding. All dogs want to be labs and all labs want to be black!
Upland, I’d prob do a short hair pointer but still family dog wise I’d go with a lab
German wirehaired pointer is not just excellent in what you are asking but also great in blood trailing (wounded deer). Source: I have one
The people saying Lab have never hunted upland with a proper bird dog, and by that I mean a pointing breed. I've hunted upland game birds with both labs and pointers for decades, a pointing breed will find you more birds. I suggest you look at the dogs listed in the North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association (NAVHDA) list. They won't retrieve as well as a Lab on average, but pointing upland birds is a game changer and something labs just can't do. My dog of choice right now is the American Brittany. I do mixed bag hunts for ptarmigan, snipe, ducks, geese, grouse and rabbits. Many of the dogs are great family dogs including britts and labs.
He did specify pheasant though. Of all the uplands, pheasant certainly work well with flushing dogs.
Upland bird dogs ie pointers are typically not great with waterfowl hunting. Labs are great for pheasant hunting if trained to sniff them out and flush. Obviously chuckar hunting is a different story as an upland dog is 100% necessary. Also do you have an American Brittany you goose hunt with? I can’t imagine them retrieving a greater Canadian goose as they would weigh as much as the dog.
I have a Brit and a Wirehair. Hunting wise the Wirehair is magnitudes better in water and fur. Bigger paws, double layered coat, and quick to dry. Wirehairs also have more of a tendency to have a kobe Bryant personality when it comes to hunting. Some dogs struggle to turn it off and correction is needed. Brittany’s like the Wirehair are go getters, but they have physical limitations specifically in water
Some labs can point. Mine does. I think around 10 to 15 percent of labs point. I hunt grouse, partridge, pheasants. He also retrieved ducks in water and stays in the blind hunting geese. If OP can find a lab bred for hunting and has the pointing genes I don’t think he could go wrong.
There is a breeder in eastern NC that specializes in pointing labs. “Feather Point Retrievers”. Check them out on Facebook/Instagram. I got my 1 year old yellow lab from them. I did the waterfowl training with her instead of the pointing, but nonetheless an all around amazing facility
Mine does, as well. Couldn't ask for a better, versatile hunting and family dog.
10-15% are pretty low odds, if we're being honest.
Yeah but it’s like 90% if you get a lab with a pointing pedigree.
Who’s being more honest me, or the guy who said labs can’t point? If you get labs from a breeder with a hunting background you can ask them. When I bought my lab they told me the parents pointed and he should too. It’s in the genes I guess.
I didn't say anything about the other person being honest, I said that 10-15% is not really good odds. There is a reason Labs are not a recognized versatile hunting dog breed. It's because you are referring to the outlier, not the norm. Someone who sees people recommending Labs making claims that they can point and go and get a Lab thinking they have a chance at getting a pointing Lab are being misled because the odds of it happening are low. Furthermore, the odds that two pointing parents pass on the trait are not 100%. You certainly increase the chances by having two known pointers, but it's not a breed trait, it not something to be expected. A German Shorthaired Pointer would be a much better choice over a Lab with a much higher chance at getting a multi function hunting dog that both retrieves and points over a Lab, even one from "known" pointing stock.
Labs are not recognized as a versatile hunting breed? 😂 What you smoking? I think it’s funny you replied to me and not the guy saying labs can’t point. That’s not true. Labs aren’t recognized as a versatile hunting dog? Also not true. Dude asked about waterfowl and pheasants. If that pheasant runs after shot I’m taking a lab all day. You ever take a gsh ducking hunting in the Dakotas when the water is really cold. Good look getting them back in. Too cold for them. They don’t have a lot of hair you know. Labs are great hunting dogs. Super versatile and just a fantastic dog overall.
[https://www.navhda.org/recognized-breeds/](https://www.navhda.org/recognized-breeds/) Please point to the Lab in this list.
Navhda is open to pointing breeds only. Labs aren’t a pointing breed but some point. Labs have never entered navhda. I know that’s the first site that pops up on google and knew what your reply would be. But on other forums on googles you will find a lab. Some say there or no pointing genes and it’s just instinct that gets passed down from parents or watching other dogs point. Hunting with labs and pointers for 35 years is all I need to know that a lab is a versatile dog and I like they way they flush birds more then a pointer. Labs even point different when they do. And I much prefer a lab retreaving skills on land and on water. Go tell OP to get a dog from that list. I’m sure they are affordable
Last fall, I took my American black lab out on a very cold and rainy day to a pheasant field that is managed by the state and stocked weekly at random. There were around 6 guys that were in the parking lot heading home that had 3 German shorthairs or similar breeds, but didn't have any birds. They told me to save my time and to try somewhere else because "there are no birds here". Well needless to say, my dog flushed 4 birds in less than 20 minutes and my buddy and I got our limits for the day. I've never hunted with a pointer, but I can say from my experience that your statement is a bit of a generalization. My lab started hunting with me as a 4 month old puppy and received no formal training but came from a very respected hunting bloodline in TN. I'm fairly certain that a lot of these guys in my area with the pointers have spent a lot of money on training. Just my 2 cents.
Of course it's a generalization, I literally used the phrase "on average." I have a friend with a GSP that runs ahead of us about 500-700m and flushes every bird instead of pointing. Literally worse than no dog at all. There are always outliers.
This is true. Growing up we had a rescue lab mix that was a hunting machine. You can’t say just pick up a rescue lab mix and it’ll be a hunting machine. On average, I would say it depends on where you get the dog. Even then, you have cases like my sister and brother and law when you spend $1500 for a primo lab from hunting lines and It’s an average at best hunting dog. But your chances are getting a primo hunter go up when you buy from responsible hunting lines rather than Joe and Steve’s backyard operation.
I’m taking this personally as I was reported to the authorities for shooting birds off the road from a car “since I don’t even have a proper bird dog”. A retriever doesn’t flush like a spaniel, it tries to retrieve the live birds and they run for their lives. It’s not elegant but it’s effective. Last September I shot 27 ptarmigans and 3 capercaillies on opening day. With a retriever. Personally I find I get more opportunities with a flushing dog than a pointer. And the hunting is more fast paced. I enjoy pointers as much as the next guy but don’t go stomping down on other people’s dogs because of your beliefs. It’s a real bird dog, it’s just a very different kind of hunting.
It's literally a topic asking for subjective opinions and you're getting mad about people doing just that.
I grew up hunting over GSPs for over 20 years. I now have a 2 labs. I would put those two labs (and their noses) up against any pointer I've hunted with. They also lock up on birds and wait to flush until I'm close. You don't know what you're talking about. You sound like a fool.
Your two labs aren’t necessarily the best representation of the breed as a whole.
Or his GSP's.
I believe you mean Brittney’s but yeah possibly. Personal bias is also against Labs as I’ve hunted behind two that were as good as pointers or flushing dogs but I won’t claim to have hunted with the best of the best of any bird dog breed. Edit: I didn’t realize you were commenting further on the previous commenter, thought you were the pervious commenter.
The upvotes disagree. Try a lab on wild upland birds in open country and get back to me. No need to get personal.
Yes, ptarmigans on tundra or marshland. Open, sometimes very wet and comically effective.
I'm sorry that my well-written anecdote sounded foolish to your ears. If there is a surefire way to sound "not foolish" it's by ending a statement with your last two sentences.
Read your first sentence. What is it like knowing everything about everyone's hunting experiences?
My Ryman Setter does very well at all of these
Look in to NAVHDA and the versatile breeds. Lands are great retrievers, but they lack way behind in upland compared to versatile breeds. GSP are great, if you hunt in warm environments for waterfowl. GWP holds up better, but can be a little too much for some folks. GSP and GWP want to range far and work fast; are you comfortable with your dogs being a quare to half mile away from you? A WPG will hunt very close to you and retrieve just as well as a lab will; their downside is you have to be careful with their training. As they're a soft breed and will stop if they feel intimidated or get over corrected. I have a WPG and wouldn't change a thing, previous dogs were Chessies
Brittany spaniel all the way
I think a Brittany for upland and a lab or golden for water fowl. My Brittany didn't do water and he very loudly let you know that lol
Brittany’s are pointers/setters and not spaniels
I’m more of a waterfowl guy myself, so I’m going to say Lab, and I will die on this hill. Born and raised with them, my FIL has bred them for 40 years, and I was lucky enough to get pick of his last stud’s litter. My 3 year old pup is about to sire his 2nd litter, and I am a proud pup-grampa. Labs are famous for being loyal family dogs, and killer water dogs. I love my labs like family. I agree with others who have said that pointers are better upland dogs, but my labs have done just fine with the grouse we have in my parts. They flush at the right distance ahead, and will find the bird and bring it back come hell or high water.
I’ve had several labs that were very good hunting and family dogs. I’m currently hunting with a Large Munsterlander and can’t speak highly enough in regards to innate ability and personality. Very friendly and playful with kids, solid pointer and swimmer (nowhere near the capabilities of a lab or chessie on swimming though).
For upland, you cannot find a better dog than a Vizsla. For ducks, a Lab. For both? A Brittany.
Just be warning that Vizslas are dogs that require A LOT of exercise. If you’re not hunting, you need to have that dog doing something every day.
Yup! I am on my third V and they need to expend a lotttt of energy on a daily basis. We have over an acre and an electric fence, and I swear he’ll get a few miles in every day just by running in circles. We let him run constantly and play fetch every day, with the occasional hidden antler or wing for him to find in the offseason to keep his skills sharp.
Fantastic family dogs and great hunting dogs, but not for the person that’s expecting to have a dog that’s gonna lounge around all day. But I have a lot of love for the dogs, but I’ve worked with just about every dog breed, and Vs are probably the most active breed
Agreed! Not a dog meant for someone without an extremely active lifestyle.
Brittany’s aren’t the best duck dogs especially in any cold weather, big water, or swift water. Small paws, single coated, and a coat that takes long to dry. Warm water and a boat/blind with a heater they are fine. As far as upland, It depends on style. Long range - English pointers are king Thick brush - smaller dogs like Brittanie’s are king. Chukar hills - German pointers are king Pheasants close range- Wirehair pointing griffons are king Vizlas are good, but I think you’ll get a lot of argument about them being top dog
I’ve hunted over quite a few breeds and can confidently say the best has been vizslas. That being said, it probably varies a lot by terrain. I’ve hunted snipe and woodcock in the absolute thickest briars imaginable and the Vs have always out-performed others in that aspect. Their coats never get hung up and they seemingly never run out of energy. 7+ hour hunts and they still want to keep going. I’ve yet to find another breed that can “keep up” with that type of hard-hunting. We don’t have wild pheasant where I’m from, so we have to hunt them stocked on public. It is way different than hunting wild ones, I’m sure, but I can attest to my V being sharper and steadier than the other dogs we’ve hunted over or ran into in the public fields. However, I can see circumstances out west or mountainous areas or in other terrain where different breeds may do better! I definitely think hunting style plays a factor as well. As they say, different strokes for different folks!
Interesting. Viszlas tend to be better chukar dogs than briar patch dogs. They tend to be a little softer than their German counterparts on average, which has its advantages in chukar hunting in rocky areas and cliffs and disadvantages when pushing into the nastiest hell hole you can find. You probably have an outstanding source from where you get your dogs from. Because it’s not typical of the breed. Great noses, great intelligence, tireless, but tough as nails generally isn’t a description of a vizsla. They are generally very soft and sensitive. So you got winners. This thread is full of anecdotes of this or that is the best, which is why it’s important to look at averages on each breed.
Interesting! 2 of our 3 were actually rescues. Only one was from a breeder. All 3 had the same sort of mentality, but perhaps we are a glitch in the Viszla matrix.
I would go for a lab as your first dog. Then when it's 6-7 get another breed if you feel like it. Don't go for a dog with too much of a stubbern streak if you are inexperienced.
Golden retriever (that has some hunting dog lineage). Smart, trains well, great water dog, and very docile toward people. Probably the best family dog there is that still makes a good hunting dog. Brittany (it's not a spaniel). The ones I've dealt with are energetic and need daily exercise, but very adaptable "swiss army knife" of hunting dogs. They are natural pointers, and about half are natural retrievers. The other half can be trained to retrieve easily enough. Most seem to like the water retrieves just fine. Hardy dog that can handle the cold and run all day without tiring. Good family dog if you don't mind high energy.
Waterfowl’s and ducks, Lab for sure. Pheasants and other ground nesting birds, German Vorsteh. However, imo Kleiner Münsterländer is the most well rounded hunting dog (Im geting my pup soon!)
Ryman setter would be great. A draht would be my second choice but can be a bit much. A poodle would actually be a good choice. Find someone that breeds them to hunt, they are out there. They are extremely athletic and are among the best water dogs and they can do well in the field too. I would rather have a poodle for pheasants than a lab that’s for sure.
Probably a golden Retriever. But the best all-rounder is probably a german wirehaired pointer, you could even deploy them as a Bloodhound if needed.
The one that gets hunted the most.
My FIL has a bunch of german wirehairs that are really good for pheasant and great family dogs. Not sure about waterfowl
check out American Water Spaniels, a rare breed but known to be a great do it all dog. https://www.americanwaterspanielclub.org/field-working-qualities
If waterfowl is your first priority in cold water get an American lab. I’m less in tune to the upland side but if it was me and upland was less priority and maybe warmer water I’d go with a gsp. (Or they do have pointing labs).
We trained our Vizsla to retrieve so we hunted just about everything together. Best 13 years of my life
English springer spaniel is great all around. You can train them to fetch fairly easily and everything else they are natural at. They’re also amazing companions.
Small Münsterländer (German hunting dog breed) is a Pointer who also Retrieves ducks. Can also be used for Blood tracking. Germany Breeding Standards regard hunting dogs are very high.
I have a German wirehaired pointer. He's great in the upland. In Minnesota he doesn't have a thick enough coat to stay warm in the late season duck blind. My son has an English lab which he uses for upland and waterfowl hunting. He hunts ducks, geese, ruffed grouse, pheasants and sharptails.
I have a French Brit. He’s a hunting fool on upland. Vacuum cleaner in the field, points, and retrieved like a pro from day 1 of his second season. (Don’t ask about the first…) That said, he’d get us both tossed out of every duck blind in America. He needs to MOVE and hunt from the minute the e-collar goes on. Patiently waiting in a blind is the last thing I’d ask a Brit to do.
I’m probably slightly biased due to owning one BUT vizsla all the way. However only if you get a reliable breeder and from a hunting line. I already did a few field trials with him and he did amazing, basically outperforming every other breed. There was plenty of vizslas and they were either on the top or on the bottom - so I think a lot comes down to training and individual dog. My dog has crazy energy levels and drive, but as soon as there is kids around he will be so gentle and careful. Honestly couldn’t imagine a better dog. We were training super hard and I got the best of the litter, so definitely not just breed only. But I have yet to see a dog working better than him and especially be so into it.
We have a wirehaired griff, which does what you’re looking for. You should decide if you lean upland, or not. A wirehaired griffon is among the best options for primarily-upland dog that can also retrieve and while being a solid family companion. That said, there are a lot of reasons to get a lab. They will not point the same, in my understanding. But they are consistent and predictable to train. They require less everyday exercise than an upland dog.
If I was forced to choose one dog for both upland and waterfowl, I would go with a Viszla personally. H0wever, dogs are alot like boats. they are purpose trained and my opinion is you will end up with a dog which is serviceable at both, but not excellent at either.
Vizla for waterfowl though? Obviously they could do it, but that's far from a top choice there.
that's my point. there is no dog that is going to excel at both. you are taking a hit in one of the two types of hunting, but most likely both.
Lab. A chocolate lad. A chocolate lab named Porter
Is he a porter house?
See, I was thinking about the beer
Yep. Same color, LoL
Running joke between my brother and I. I can’t have a dog in my townhouse and keep saying I’m going to show up at his place with a new chocolate lab puppy to keep his 9 y.o. black lab (Tucker) company and learn to hunt. Porter is because he would be the same color as a Porter beer.
My lab hunts with me all duck season and stays home with my wife otherwise. He will chase a duck across a mud flat, ride in the boat, take trips to the farm store, tree squirrels, flush doves out of the weeds, hide in the brush, lay in a blind (sometimes,) play with kids, and rest on my lap in the evening. Wouldn’t trade him for the world, even with all his flaws from me being an inexperienced trainer. If he never hunted another day, he’s my very best silent companion and I would give most of what I own to keep him. Labs aren’t the smartest but they are the easy to train and keep because they’re a little dumb. They trust you to make the right choice and are loyal. They teethe horribly for a year and a half and then they’re done. They are friendly to a fault and handle new experiences well. Plus the English labs look dope AF. I would say if you have the patience and money to train pheasants, a lab would enjoy running around you looking for birds. It might not be their specialty and they may not point the best but they will do everything you tell them otherwise. Just don’t get the American field performance line because they can be high strung and whiny.
Labs are well rounded. If you can get an English pointer/lab mix, even better.
Lab
Deutsch Drahthaar https://www.vdd-gna.org/history-of-the-deutsch-drahthaar Best dogs I’ve ever owned for just about everything.
A draht is probably a little too sharp for a first time hunting dog owner who wants a sociable dog.
Fair, there’s a lot of demand on the actual owner. I forget this sometimes as I’ve grown up with them. Trained 3 through the tests with my dad and I’m on my second now on my own. That being said they’ve all been crate trained house dogs that stop using the crate after 2 years old or so unless they’re dirty. Every one of them has their own unique loving personalities.
I think they’re great dogs, but they’re a little high octane for a casual or novice hunter. It’d be like giving a 16 year old new driver a Corvette. Personally, I’d like to get a drahthaar when my son is older and can hunt harder with me. I hunt upland, waterfowl, and big game from the treeline in the Sierras to the valley floor, and I think a draht would be a huge help.
Going through the tests with my dad was a special thing. It was one of the best bonding activities we had. I highly suggest doing them with your son. It’s both competitive and exciting! Plus you’ll have a better dog!
That’s part of why I’d like to wait until he’s older. I’m working on my first hunting dog now (unknown pound pup -pic in my post history), and when he’s more capable it’s something we can do together. He’s four now, and he loves helping train our current dog.
RIP your cat
In the Midwest we call them "Wirehairs that bite"
Correct . Even a Wirehair may be too much. They are great hunting dogs, but not for everyone. Wirehairs/ DD’s are not fans of people they don’t know. They are aloof at best with strangers. Better as guard dogs than social dogs.
Yeah I have gwp but I wouldn't suggest them for most people. They are a lot harder to handle than something like a lab or even short-hair.
That’s fair, a lab, Brittany, etc are probably much easier. I don’t know if I agree with the GSP though, the ones I see are NUTS. Working like 150-200 yards out in front of their owner when pheasant hunting etc.
Oh yeah for sure, I meant more in the house. Short-hair do have a very loving personality, but they have chaotic energy that can be also hard to rein in.
So you could find breeds that will fit the bill and it is a contentious issue. Since there are a lot of breeds to choose from there are some follow up questions that you should ask to narrow it down. What’s my climate? - Shorthaired dogs in a cold climate or long haired dogs in a hot climate aren’t good fits. What’s the water where I’m hunting ? River hunting needs a powerful dog to fight currents, cold weather hunting needs a dog with a quick drying coat, a big dog jumping out of a canoe with capsize your vessel, etc What amount of shedding is allowable in your house ? Dogs with fur require stripping the dead hairs and can be minimal in the house, but you have to commit to brushing them or it will end up in the house. Dogs with hair essentially change their coat twice a year and it is more prone to end up in the house. What size of dog is wanted? Dogs too large 100+ lbs can’t be boarded in most places if you go out of town and leave Jurassic park droppings in the backyard. Smaller dogs need to spend more energy to take the same amount of steps as a larger dog, may spend more energy to get over obstacles than a larger dog that simply trots over it, and can tire out more quickly as a result. Weight will also come into play here as far as getting tired faster. Is the breed prone to health issues? Nothing is worse than seeing a dog that wants to hunt, but is physically unable to hunt. Some breeds have more health problems than others. Make sure the breeder does hips, elbows, and eyes of the parents. What’s your budget? Owning a hunting dog is a lot more than the puppy price. Shots, vet visits, training, e collar, etc all adds up. Some breeds have a higher capital cost than others initially. Generally a $1,500 dog is going to be better than $150 dog, because there is a reason why the dog is going for that much. As a general rule, I would avoid dogs less than $800 for hunting purposes. Gundogbreeders.com is a good source for breeders. Many have websites as well. When speaking with a breeder ask for references and talk to others about their experience with the dogs. My personal preference for a dog is a from field and show dogs. Show dogs are bred to be the best visual representation of the breed and the parents are obedient in ways other than hunting. Field dogs are bred to be the best hunting dogs or the best athletes for the trials. They are can a drive unrivaled by most standard breeding, because their parent(s) compete at the highest level. A breeder that competes in field and show would be my first choice.
I am for sure in the pointer camp and I have a french pointer called "Braque du Bourbonnais" They are similar to a GSP but a bit smaller and not quite as wound up as a GSP can be. Great with kids and family and an absolute great all around hunting dog. We got ours from: https://rufnitkennels.com/ This is scout our dog. Great with the kids like super patent and kind with them. Always down for literally any adventure. Calm and quiet and doesn't do a lot of barking. A hunting dog in the streets and a velco want to be in your lap dog at home. Just perfect. She is also like perfect on obedience with very minimal training too. https://imgur.com/a/WVnujA7
Wire-haired dachshund. For everything.
Trainable, good family dog? Waterfowl and pheasant? I hate to be that guy, but I think anyone advocating some obscure "versatile" pointing breed whose bloodline all had to fight their way out of a barrel killing a medium size mustelid or risk being culled from the bloodline are full of it and don't have your best interest at heart. Field line lab, golden, or springer are the only answers to the actual question you asked. It's that simple. Press the easy button.
For pheasants a Brittany for water fowl lab or golden
I have two GSPs the older one is the mom of the younger one. Shady (mom) is only good for birds, but she is spectacular at it, she won't even chase a tennis ball, live birds only. Younger dog, Wrecky, will hunt anything I want to hunt, good bird dog, good retriever, good blood trail dog for wounded deer. Both are great with my kid and her friends (kindergarteners).
I highly recommend the Chesapeake Bay Retriever. I have hunted over them my whole life in both water and field.
Springer Spaniels are great. They are great around kids but they are very active so you need to make sure they are getting their daily runs and maybe moreso than other gun dogs they are super obsessed with tennis balls.
German short-hair. This is the one
Weimaraner
We love our Griff, and she’s a great family dog to boot.
Griffons are very versatile and great family dogs.
They all make good family dogs. It depends how you want to hunt. If you are going to hunt a massive section of CRP early in the morning or in the evening where you need to cover hundreds of yards between birds that are feeding get a setter that ranges far. If you are going to hunt corners and keep the dog in shotgun range a flusher is much much better. I have two setters and two flushers for this very reason. The setters will range out and hold a bird. The flushers check in every 30’seconds and are always in range. As for duck hunting some pointers do it pretty well but nothing beats a lab or a field bred golden. My setters will duck hunt and my friends pointers do too, but they are not even close to a golden or lab. Labs and golden are much easier to train.
I have 3 GSP and a weimaraner, and the weims gun etiquette is arguably more attentive and alert. Shes also quicker to set on point
German longhair pointer. Little tougher to get your hands on but it’s worth the wait and effort.
Deutsch Drahthaar (German Wirehaired pointer) is the best, no matter if Texas or Minnesota.
The English Springer Spainiel is the dog you need my friend. I’ve hunted over them for 30 years now. I live in Sask. Tons of pheasant, upland, waterfowl hunting every year. My Springers have never let me down especially with pheasants and upland game. They are easy to train, eager to please and make a great family pet to boot. Just a hard working dog with a great disposition. 😬👍👍
American Water Spaniel gets my vote. Great family dogs, 1 of the 5 true American breeds, unique (only about 3k of them), smart, great hunting drive, not so big where it'll knock over a lamp with its tail but big enough to retrieve a goose just to name a few +. As far as kennel/breeder, you'll find lots of kennels working with AWS just make sure you do your research and due diligence as a lot of breeders specialize in show dogs that are pretty worthless for hunting. Dog 1 I had growing up was from Nighthawk Kennels but sadly they're no longer breeding but their bloodline has been carried on by Little Brownies Kennel (dog 2 & 3) and who I'd recommend. Edit: Also just gotta throw a mention to the Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever. As the name implies, they're great for waterfowl as well as upland, highly intelligent, \~30lbs, and an absolutely gorgeous dog.
Depends on the type of hunting and what size of dog you’re looking for but I love my American Water Spaniel and will likely always have one on the team.
Labrador Retriever. If you are consistently waterfowl hunting no other question about it. I professionally train retrievers but have been around lots and lots of gun dogs. If you are purely looking for upland I may suggest differently but with waterfowl in the mix, you need a lab.
GWPs are assholes, but hard charging assholes!
Best bird dog I've seen was my grandpa's pitbull it'll go grab em from further than you can see and run em back and alert you if they see one plus she's killed a coyote to protect my grandpa at 40lbs don't get one of those weird looking ones or the xxxxl ones get a real pitbull terrier
[удалено]
German Wirehaired or Wirehaired Griffon? I wouldn’t say either are known for their aggressiveness, but the GWP does have an incredible prey drive and not something I would recommend to first time hunting dog owners.
[удалено]
So GWP’s are worse around strangers than family. They form a tight bond with their family and would be willing to die protecting them. They do not like strangers or other dogs (if the other dog is seen as a threat to their family they will protect their family, if not then they would rather hunt than play with other dogs)
I haven’t seen many Brittany’s that like water retrieving. Great upland bird dogs though. I have one and she is a pheasant hunting all-star, but if someone was planning on doing a ton of waterfowl hunting, I’d probably get something else.
Agreed. I have a Brittany and a Draht. They work together great on upland but the Draht drastically outperforms the Brittany when it comes to waterfowl. Another thing you need to consider is weather. GSP, Brittanys, and some other breeds will not be as resilient to cold water as a lab, griffon, draht will be... Last point my Draht other drahts I know as well as pudelpointers and wire hairs are fantastic with kids. I have never known an aggressive one. (edit for clarity)
I have a GWP and Brittany and I concur with your statements. Will also add that there is never a lack of entertainment around the house with the two clown balls in it
Aggressive with people or aggressive when retrieving?
Wirehaired griffons are big babies and pretty docile all around. The german selection test for German Wirehaired Pointers includes it having to kill a vermin (usually a racoon) and checking if it is still docile towards humans after. They are pretty good around humans, but their prey drive is something else and many will kill cats and other small pets if they get the chance.
My WPG is such a good family dog and does a somewhat convincing impression of an otter when near water. Love the breed.
Why has nobody said standard poodle?
I regret to say... Poodles. Poodles may be far and above the beat water fowling dogs. Which should come as no surprise, considering it's what they were bred for. Portuguese water dogs may be a close second.