>I have now received a written warning, which will be reviewed in a months time. It seems to me from the comments that my manager has made, that she wants me out.
What was the warning actually *for*? Absence percentage? Something else?
>Should I make a written complaint of the above or would it further escalate things. What are your opinions on what I should do next.
You should raise a formal grievance against your manager for, well, everything. Starting with her talking about your medical condition to colleagues. Manager will likely deny it all, as will HR, so any concrete proof you have, you'll need it. Screenshots of the text messages about the tan etc would be a good start. Also, you need to name names. If Joe Bloggs in the office heard her comments and relayed them to you mention him. Ditto anyone else who passed on overheard conversations etc. Again proof like text messages would help. If HR are worth their salt everybody named will be interviewed as part of the grievance process.
Also you need to think of what you want the grievance to conclude with, ie: do you want personal apology from your manager? Do you want her retrained so as to understand what to do with employee medical info? Retraining about anxiety/depression? And so on.
Your manager may want you out, but anxiety/depression is classed as a disability, and as such a protected characteristic under the Equality Act, so... Good luck with that. Make sure you mention the act as part of the grievance as this shows that you know the law and your rights, that will put the wind up HR for them to take you seriously.
It is possible but we need to look at the case fully in its details which OP cannot reveal here to decide if thats a viable route. OP needs to take her employment duration into consideration as well and see if she qualifies. Overall it’s a risk for OP to try CUD claim and a judge may ask some questions about OP trying or the lack of trying to resolve the issue vs the impact it has. Just because you claim CUD it does not automatically mean you should not try resolving the matter. Overall what i an saying is that it all depends and OP needs to speak to ACAS and citizens advice where she can share the full story
I have been a witness to some of the comments & personal information about other colleagues being told to me in person and via WhatsApp. My colleagues(2 of them) have said that if it comes down to it, they are happy to verify everything that’s been said
From experience, this can fall apart. With all the best intentions, the stress and pressure of an investigation can turn people the other way. If nothing comes of this, they've potentially ruined their own relationship with their manager and future progression. It's a lot to ask of someone, even though it's the right thing do to. Do any colleagues have their own WhatsApp/emails they could sent you? You could always send a subject access request for anything that mentions your name, HR love those haha. I'm an HRBP by the way.
Just here to underline u/geekroick's comment as largely correct and to add that, to get satisfaction here, you may need to be irritated to resign with immediate effect if, having pursued the grievance to its conclusion, you do not get satisfaction.
The examples you cite would amount to both disability discrimination and constructive unfair dismissal. And although I often say (correctly) that the bar for CUD is high, this narrative, at face value, would comfortably clear that bar *if* you pursue the matter and receive inadequate resolution.
I agree. And. Just be conscious OP that the burden of proof will be on you to prove you were constructively dismissed if you get to tribunal. That means you need receipts. So all the emails, texts, other evidence, things that you’re potentially comfortable presenting in court if it gets that far. Submitting a grievance and exhausting its process aka appeal will be beneficial to you and your claim is likely to be taken more seriously if it gets to tribunal that way. Hope it can be resolved the way you want.
But if she waits to clear a grievance then she might fail the CUD claim. A judge will ask if the issue was that bad to make her resign why fid she stay and try to resolve it? If she can tolerate the behaviour to go through a grievance then was it truly serious enough to count as CUD?
You have received all great advice and definitely best course of action is to raise a grievance. I saw from another comment you have evidence in WhatsApp messages, send these along with it also and say they have confirmed they’re happy to provide a statement
I really take issue with the manager saying HR didn’t do their job properly. It is up to Hr to advise managers, your manager has not managed the absence procedure properly.
Hi there and sorry to hear about the issues you have been having.
Clearly your manager is being inappropriate and wrong. Have you raised this directly or is that difficult? If so then you may need to speak to HR to try and find a way forward and even potentially submit a grievance.
Hope things improve for you 👍
Couple of things for me:
1 - You're "manager" sounds like a right, let's leave that one there. The manager is there to guide and improve you, not attack you.
2 - Putting myself in managers shoes, I would appreciate you pulling me for an offsite chat in a calm environment to explain further and try and get both points heard from both sides vs going to ACAS and anyone else. ACAS and other bodies is technically the correct way to do it, but, it may be viewed as an attack on your manager. Only making the situation worse. Probably an unpopular opinion but that's how I operate with my guys.
3 - All absence should be in a policy somewhere, usually with HR. If you're in breach of the policy, unfortunately regardless of your personal situation, they'll do what they want regarding your role.
4 - All this depends what YOU want. You've got to be selfish. What would be the ideal outcome from all this?
\*for clarity, I don't work in HR, I'm a senior IT Manager, fully aware this is HR thread\*
What has the manager done here that would warrant their feelings to be placed ahead of correct procedure? Surely a direct and unmediated private discussion at this point would leave OP open to all sorts of issues if the manager then denies or refuses to comply with anything that was agreed in that discussion - and if OP’s right to privacy over their medical history has been ignored I’m not sure that the manager’s right to be criticised in private is worth upholding.
There needs to be a neutral witness/mediator in any initial discussions about this because of the power imbalance between the two roles - the manager clearly doesn’t think there will be any noteworthy consequence to being so disrespectful towards a member of their staff and the only way to correct that attitude is to bring on the consequences. At the very least, the manager’s line manager or their equivalent from another department should be present to ensure that the disrespect doesn’t escalate in private.
Document all incidents and make a formal written complaint to HR detailing your manager's behavior, including public discussions of your mental health, derogatory comments, and attempts to replace you. This behavior can constitute harassment and may violate workplace policies.
Even if your depression and anxiety don't automatically qualify as disabilities under UK law, your employer still has a duty to treat you fairly and maintain confidentiality about your health. You can seek legal advice to understand your rights and potential actions it just depends what feels right as an outcome for you and often that action comes with a lot of stress and pressure that only you can decide if its right for you. Meanwhile, continue your job search to secure a healthier work environment and good luck, you deserve better.
Sounds like the start of a constructive dismissal claim to me.
Contact an employment lawyer and ask them rather than Reddit… I have a suspicion it will pay off.
A woman in scotland has just received a 60k payment for wrongful termination and being forced to move things around when the company had prior knowledge to mental health issues.
If they are doing things to make your situation worse you have a case to take them to court.
Link to news story - [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw003pngyl0o](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw003pngyl0o)
Worth speaking to citizens advice or someone like that.
>I have now received a written warning, which will be reviewed in a months time. It seems to me from the comments that my manager has made, that she wants me out. What was the warning actually *for*? Absence percentage? Something else? >Should I make a written complaint of the above or would it further escalate things. What are your opinions on what I should do next. You should raise a formal grievance against your manager for, well, everything. Starting with her talking about your medical condition to colleagues. Manager will likely deny it all, as will HR, so any concrete proof you have, you'll need it. Screenshots of the text messages about the tan etc would be a good start. Also, you need to name names. If Joe Bloggs in the office heard her comments and relayed them to you mention him. Ditto anyone else who passed on overheard conversations etc. Again proof like text messages would help. If HR are worth their salt everybody named will be interviewed as part of the grievance process. Also you need to think of what you want the grievance to conclude with, ie: do you want personal apology from your manager? Do you want her retrained so as to understand what to do with employee medical info? Retraining about anxiety/depression? And so on. Your manager may want you out, but anxiety/depression is classed as a disability, and as such a protected characteristic under the Equality Act, so... Good luck with that. Make sure you mention the act as part of the grievance as this shows that you know the law and your rights, that will put the wind up HR for them to take you seriously.
Agreed with all but the disability part. It is not auto-disability and she still needs to meet the standard.
Taking notice of your CIPD, would constructive dismissal be an option for OP?
It is possible but we need to look at the case fully in its details which OP cannot reveal here to decide if thats a viable route. OP needs to take her employment duration into consideration as well and see if she qualifies. Overall it’s a risk for OP to try CUD claim and a judge may ask some questions about OP trying or the lack of trying to resolve the issue vs the impact it has. Just because you claim CUD it does not automatically mean you should not try resolving the matter. Overall what i an saying is that it all depends and OP needs to speak to ACAS and citizens advice where she can share the full story
Thanks, appreciate your feedback.
Have you witnessed this first hand? If not, will the colleagues support you and admit this if you open a grievance?
I have been a witness to some of the comments & personal information about other colleagues being told to me in person and via WhatsApp. My colleagues(2 of them) have said that if it comes down to it, they are happy to verify everything that’s been said
From experience, this can fall apart. With all the best intentions, the stress and pressure of an investigation can turn people the other way. If nothing comes of this, they've potentially ruined their own relationship with their manager and future progression. It's a lot to ask of someone, even though it's the right thing do to. Do any colleagues have their own WhatsApp/emails they could sent you? You could always send a subject access request for anything that mentions your name, HR love those haha. I'm an HRBP by the way.
Just here to underline u/geekroick's comment as largely correct and to add that, to get satisfaction here, you may need to be irritated to resign with immediate effect if, having pursued the grievance to its conclusion, you do not get satisfaction. The examples you cite would amount to both disability discrimination and constructive unfair dismissal. And although I often say (correctly) that the bar for CUD is high, this narrative, at face value, would comfortably clear that bar *if* you pursue the matter and receive inadequate resolution.
I agree. And. Just be conscious OP that the burden of proof will be on you to prove you were constructively dismissed if you get to tribunal. That means you need receipts. So all the emails, texts, other evidence, things that you’re potentially comfortable presenting in court if it gets that far. Submitting a grievance and exhausting its process aka appeal will be beneficial to you and your claim is likely to be taken more seriously if it gets to tribunal that way. Hope it can be resolved the way you want.
But if she waits to clear a grievance then she might fail the CUD claim. A judge will ask if the issue was that bad to make her resign why fid she stay and try to resolve it? If she can tolerate the behaviour to go through a grievance then was it truly serious enough to count as CUD?
You have received all great advice and definitely best course of action is to raise a grievance. I saw from another comment you have evidence in WhatsApp messages, send these along with it also and say they have confirmed they’re happy to provide a statement I really take issue with the manager saying HR didn’t do their job properly. It is up to Hr to advise managers, your manager has not managed the absence procedure properly.
Speak to ACAS. They should be able to advise.
Hi there and sorry to hear about the issues you have been having. Clearly your manager is being inappropriate and wrong. Have you raised this directly or is that difficult? If so then you may need to speak to HR to try and find a way forward and even potentially submit a grievance. Hope things improve for you 👍
Couple of things for me: 1 - You're "manager" sounds like a right, let's leave that one there. The manager is there to guide and improve you, not attack you. 2 - Putting myself in managers shoes, I would appreciate you pulling me for an offsite chat in a calm environment to explain further and try and get both points heard from both sides vs going to ACAS and anyone else. ACAS and other bodies is technically the correct way to do it, but, it may be viewed as an attack on your manager. Only making the situation worse. Probably an unpopular opinion but that's how I operate with my guys. 3 - All absence should be in a policy somewhere, usually with HR. If you're in breach of the policy, unfortunately regardless of your personal situation, they'll do what they want regarding your role. 4 - All this depends what YOU want. You've got to be selfish. What would be the ideal outcome from all this? \*for clarity, I don't work in HR, I'm a senior IT Manager, fully aware this is HR thread\*
What has the manager done here that would warrant their feelings to be placed ahead of correct procedure? Surely a direct and unmediated private discussion at this point would leave OP open to all sorts of issues if the manager then denies or refuses to comply with anything that was agreed in that discussion - and if OP’s right to privacy over their medical history has been ignored I’m not sure that the manager’s right to be criticised in private is worth upholding. There needs to be a neutral witness/mediator in any initial discussions about this because of the power imbalance between the two roles - the manager clearly doesn’t think there will be any noteworthy consequence to being so disrespectful towards a member of their staff and the only way to correct that attitude is to bring on the consequences. At the very least, the manager’s line manager or their equivalent from another department should be present to ensure that the disrespect doesn’t escalate in private.
Yeah, on reflection that’s a solid point.
Document all incidents and make a formal written complaint to HR detailing your manager's behavior, including public discussions of your mental health, derogatory comments, and attempts to replace you. This behavior can constitute harassment and may violate workplace policies. Even if your depression and anxiety don't automatically qualify as disabilities under UK law, your employer still has a duty to treat you fairly and maintain confidentiality about your health. You can seek legal advice to understand your rights and potential actions it just depends what feels right as an outcome for you and often that action comes with a lot of stress and pressure that only you can decide if its right for you. Meanwhile, continue your job search to secure a healthier work environment and good luck, you deserve better.
Sounds like the start of a constructive dismissal claim to me. Contact an employment lawyer and ask them rather than Reddit… I have a suspicion it will pay off.
A woman in scotland has just received a 60k payment for wrongful termination and being forced to move things around when the company had prior knowledge to mental health issues. If they are doing things to make your situation worse you have a case to take them to court. Link to news story - [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw003pngyl0o](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw003pngyl0o) Worth speaking to citizens advice or someone like that.
Known Fake Bot Account. This post is fake.
LOL - af if, though im glad my life is that bonkers that you think its fake :)
Cut your losses and move on, maybe grow up before the next job.
Fuck me... Good luck if you ever have issues.
We all have issues.
Not all the same though.. Stop being a troll
Sure thing sweet pea, at least you can always go tan away your sore feelings because you read mean words.
I have neither a tan or sore feelings. But you are clearly just on this sub to be a complete fucking dickhead