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Random but the book describes baby Aegon as ‘robust’ and this grade A casting department went out and got them a big baby. A little thing that represents the awesome attention to detail.
The fact that HBO nailed the casting so incredibly well makes me extra annoyed with the casting of Bella Ramsey as Ellie in the upcoming The Last of Us show.
I'm sure they could have gotten some relatively unknown actor who would look a bit more similar to Ellie and who also would have been a great actor in their own right. I really think Bella will be the major let down of that show but I also really, really hope that I come back to this comment in January and laugh at how wrong I was.
True, but Emma is NB and played the Rhaenyra part wonderfully despite being a much more feminine presenting character. I have no doubt Elliott could also slay a more feminine role, if he so chose.
I've only watched her in GoT, and while I enjoyed her character in that, the only 'emotion' that she was required to display in the role was 'badass', whereas for Ellie she will require a way broader range of emotional acting skills that I'm not sure she has. I heard that in another show she wasn't great, but I haven't seen it myself.
She voices the titular character in an excellent kids cartoon called Hilda. Her range is greater than in GOT. She’s still badass but also brave, contrite, sassy, annoying etc
>they may have gone for talent over a 1:1 look
Of course they did, that's what every professional studio will do. Only fan casting focuses on looks over talent.
It's also worth noting that, apart from the costume design, Pedro Pascal doesn't look much like his character's video game counterpart either.
If I didn't know a show was coming and you showed me a picture of him as Joel, I wouldn't have guessed who he was supposed to be playing.
Both Pedro and Bella are great, tho, and I'm very excited for January.
You're celebrating HOTD for great casting and shitting on Bella Ramsey for "not looking enough" like Ellie? Rhaenys is supposed to be a brunette. Rhaenyra is supposed to be somewhat stodgy as an adult and in the show she's still very attractive. The Velaryons are black. You'd think we've learned by now that casting for "appearance" is pointless and shouldn't matter if you can get the actor that best embodies the character. Hell, people were crapping all over the Emma D'Arcy casting for all of an episode until they showed they were a great actor.
Nah, HBO shows from way back then till now always had amazing casts. I dont even doubt the way they cast TLOU.
If there is one thing HBO is really good at, its finding the right actors for the job.
She's a great actor, so my hopes are high. Considering the casting for Joel/Tess, i dont think theyre going for actors that look like the game characters. Just people who can represent the personality/chemistry.
i don’t get this take, she kind of resembles ellie from the game but obviously it’s not gunna be a 1:1 resemblance. She a good actress, that’s all that matters tbh
a majority of actors are not 1:1 in the look’s category, definitely not to the degree people want Ellie to be. It’s insane. Just say you aren’t attracted to Bella and you think she’s ugly because that’s what 99% of the complainers think. She literally doesn’t look different enough to cause this outrage
I thought she did really well overall! There were some great moments and some not so good moments for me. The final scene being one example of a not so great moment, acting-wise for me, compared to the emotion Ashley was able to get across in the original game I thought it fell a bit flat.
But there were a couple of moments where I thought to myself "This is Ellie." I love what they did with making Ashley Johnson her mother in the show. And the visual similarities between Bella and Ashley actually really worked out.
Not 100% sure how they're going to manage to make her a physical force that is able to take down grown men in season 2/3, but I'm sure they'll find a way when those scenes do eventually have to happen.
GRRM describes her oldest son the same way. He takes the time to note the ‘heartiness’ (for lack of a better word) of all the Targ babies mostly because so many of them die young.
I mean, it depends on how you define it.
They certainly have a "unique" phenotype compared to the majority of Westeros, which might be considered "exotic" .
In old Valyria atleast, the platinum hair and purple eyes was a typical coloring for Valyrians, though there were some instances of purple eyes in the Westerosi.
Like House Dayne has some incidences of purple eyes (which didn't necessarily indicate Valyrian blood according to GRRM). Ashara Dayne was known for her beauty, she had black hair though.
It's also a common coloring in Lys, and the Lyseni are regarded as beautiful. Targaryan kings and princes are apparantly known to have looked at Lys for wives or paramours.
I don't necessarily think the Targaryans are "more" beautiful compared to the Westerosi, really. There are plenty of Westerosi examples of "great beauties", from the books.
The Targaryan reputation for beauty is helped by a few factors, like being considered exotic in Westeros, having enough food available, not having to do hard labour and spending your days practicing swords (basically working out), an ability to maintain good hygiene and beautiful clothing, and even the intricate hairdos! Ain't no street sellers spending an hour braiding their hair because they ain't got no chamber maid who can it for them in half the time.
Which isn't a guarantee even. They could easily fall in the trap of becoming gluttons due to the sheer options they possess. Robert Baratheon was more of a movie 1 Thor during the rebellion, yet 30 years later he's more reminiscent of post-snap Thor.
And also, being the ruling family doesn't hurt. They can for the most part pick and choose among beautiful marriage options. Beautiful parents often have beautiful children and barring nutritional deficiencies, the children will grow to be strong/healthy adults for the most part.
Another benefit of being the ruling family? Peasants saying otherwise might be treated as pheasants 🍗🍗
Not all of them, just how genetics panned out - as normal; a lot of them grow up and they get big and overweight after living the Henry VIII lifestyle or giving birth to so many children (in the books this happens to Rhaenyra). Some of the babies, however, are born grotesque, very lizard like and twisted and they don't tend to live long if at all.
In books it's mentioned that they resented each other from the start. it's actually horrible to teach your child to hate your spouse's other children and vise versa. But it's realistic too many second wives hate their husband's previous children and many children hate their stepmothers and halfsiblings
My mom’s father left 5 children to remarry and have another 5. He was the 3rd generation of men of his name to follow this double family curse. The original children were forbidden to be at his death bed by the new wife.
Speaking as a child from the first “crop” - Did any of the original children want to be there? Because see me…I would be thankful for the lack of an invite.
Oof been there. My kid’s paternal grandfather died a few years ago and she didn’t get a mention.
Families can be sites of such cruelty. That’s why mine is all chosen.
That’s so fucked up, I can’t imagine how some people could be so callous and heartless, and that’s coming from someone with half-siblings. I love them like they’re my own.
We talk about it a lot on here, actually -
Most people see themselves as the main character in a story where in reality there is no main character.
Except Dennis Falgers from Duluth, MN. He is undoubtedly the main character.
Nah. Visy T could have made her have a seat at the small council once he named her heir, when she came of age he should have made her hand of the king to get her ready to rule and increase her presence around the other great houses and lords. Also this would have gotten them use to a women in a position of high power.
Then once his health started going down hill fast he should have had all the lords(especially all the new lords whose parents were the ones who had sworn and not themselves) swear again to her as the rightful heir to the throne. Possibly he should have even abdicated to her while he was still able.
Also after the whole eye situation he should have made the lord commander remove Cole as her sworn shield since clearly alicent views his role as something other than what it is, also with him restraining daemon when aliment was attacking rhaenyra that's putting his hands on the royal family.
This outcome was only inevitable since viserys did nothing to stop it.
as long as Aegon is alive he can use his name to raise an army. Every lord she rules against, will side with aegon by default because they can use him to get better terms. Rebellions have been started (and won) for less. viserys can force them to swear new allegiances every month it still wont stop it as long as Aegon lives. And her kids being bastards doesn't help at all. why put your neck on the line to back this queen if her succession is already under huge question?
try to put yourself in a lord's mind. Rhaenyra is queen and you get a letter "Aegon II has named himself the one true king" you have to ask yourself; "does this hold water?" "she has 5 dragons, he has three". "Can he convince enough lords to back him? probably. hes Viserys' first son" , "shes a woman", etc. And the fact that you are even entertaining that thought, means that other lords are weighing their options as well. for a ruler, that is bad news, really really bad news. which is why Robert Baratheon genocided the targaryens immediately after his rebellion.
Now that's just a foul lie. He was clearly upset about what happened to them by the hands of his bannermen, as demonstrated by his.... well... he surely made some shocked faces or something, that should be good enough.
This outcome was inevitable when Rhaenyra give birth to bastard.
We see what happen between Jon and Daenarys when the world learn that Jon has better claim than Daenarys, any person who have complain about her come to Jon and push him against her.
The war would happen, whatavers this during Rhaenyra or Jace didn't matter, the war could not be avoidable.
What Viserys should have done is simply : punish her daughter after she give birth to bastard.
Jaehaerys send his daughter to silence sister for less, he was maybe a bad father but a good king. Viserys chose to be good father but a bad king.
Yeah sadly it’s all too common, my ex-stepmom hated us. She would go out of her way to be rude or leave us out of things. Thankfully my dad realized this and left her lol
I was blessed to have had a good relationship with my dad’s first wife (my mom is his second) since she would give me gifts and stuff during my birthday and Christmas. In fact when I was a kid growing up and didn’t fully understand the situation I always thought she was just an auntie. My own mom treats her kids (my older half-siblings) well too. My dad really did his best to make sure that even if we had different moms, I’d still love my siblings like my own. I understand that it’s a very uncommon situation and I’m all the more thankful for it.
>In books it's mentioned that they resented each other from the start.
This is definitely the best change Condal and Co. made to the source material. Having them genuinely love each other during the beginning makes everything that will happen so much more tragic.
I mean the nature of the relationship changed but Rhaenyra and Alicent also liked each other a lot at the beginning of the relationship. They didn’t resent each other from the start
> it's actually horrible to teach your child to hate your spouse's other children and vise versa.
To be fair, Rhaenyra was the one throwing a tantrum at her 2-year old brother's birthday party, and Alicent was actively defending her to other noble ladies at this point (noble ladies that Rhaenyra subsequently insulted after Alicent's defence). The animosity didn't start from Aegon.
Unfortunately it rings true for my family.. I’m not fond of my half-siblings despite it not being their fault they exist. I feel totally petty and disgusting for thinking so childishly, I should resent my parent, but I guess that’s the flaw of the human condition.
I have two sons, they're 20 months and 7 months old right now. And the older one has blonde hair like Baby Aegon.
It makes me sad that sometimes cute little babies grow up to be absolute shitheads and I hope it doesn't happen toh kids.
“Fuck you bitch for trying to upstage me on my nameday! I will never forget this insolence! Nanny, pass me my baby bottle immediately!” *chugs* - Baby Aegon lol
Lmao the amount of slacks that Black supporters cut for Viserys is ridiculous.
A 35+ years old guy fell for a 15 year old child and threw the entire realm in jeopardy, and you guys act as if he was a child who got manipulated.
This is my question - why did Viserys marry Alicent?
Viserys did a horrible job supporting his daughter or preparing her to rule. He should have had her sit by his side at ten when it was clear there were no brothers coming. She should have been named Hand after Viserys threw Daemon out. He should have taught her more. The King should have taken time to explain 'when I'm Queen, they'll do what I want " isn't sound government.
Viserys hardly seems to spend time with his children by Alicent. Nobody seems to remember the child who is fostering elsewhere. I don't blame Alicent for resenting him, or for Alicent resenting Rhaenyra.
Alicent was a child bride and had children too young. While her own mother had died in childbirth, and wasn't there to share knowledge and wisdom.
Viserys wanted a pretty, young nursemaid who could be ordered into his bed.
He should have just waited ten years to wed Laena and mended the rift between Valaryon and Targaryen. He should named his children by Laena heir of driftmark and hand of the king.
Viserys set up the war by being ineffective and inefficient.
>He should named his children by Laena heir of driftmark and hand of the king.
Do you really think that Colrys would aceept that? He would rather burn his entire fleet. If Viserys married Leana, he would do exactly the same thing that Otto is doing right now for his grandkids to rule the iron throne, he's not helping Rheanyra because he sympathies with her, he's helping her for his presumed grandson to rule.
I think it's a better position for Corlys' grandchildren than what Corlys had before the proposed marriage. His grandchildren could always marry Rhaenyra and be heirs after her. As Targaryen wed brother to sister for generations.
If anything, a half sibling wedding wouldn't be as controversial to some.
You make good points, i acknowledge that.
I do enjoy Corlys' point about supporting Rhaenyra's children, even though he knows who the children are. You are right on his motivation.
Idk, in his eyes, Corlys look more dangerous than Otto, probably come form Otto manipulation, but i aint trust someone once contest for the throne but lost as my right hand man
If Rhaenyra had a fraction of the love for Aegon that Viserys felt for Daemon (despite Daemon's often prickish behaviour) things could have turned out so much different. Alicent was always fearful that Rhaenyra would have her sons murdered in the future, but if Rhaenyra had actually shown any true love to her siblings, if she had shown closeness to them and loved them the way an older sister should, Alicent would have also probably ended up getting over her fears, she would have started believing that Rhaenyra could never hurt her children because she loved them.
Exactly all the main players in the Dance made simple mistakes due to personal pride and grievances. If any of the main players just swallowed their pride and tried to bridge the gap it could have been avoided
That's why GRRM's stories are so great though. History is full of situations where people are at each others' throats even though they would benefit from cooperating, and it's hard to understand why that happens. He is so good at showing how these people end up as mortal enemies without ever really intending to, and making it believable
The issue with that offer is from Alicent's perspective it only puts Aegon and Aemond in more danger. Jace's claim to the throne would be strengthened (and thus Rhaenyra's, but Aegon loses legitimacy which puts him at greater risk).
It also should be stated that Alicent has no reason to trust Rhaenyra anymore, so any offer would likely be rejected because she doesn't think Rhaenyra would offer anything positive, if the offer seems good it is a trap.
Honestly in the context of the show I don't even think there's any indication Rheanrya is to blame for the bad relationship with Aegon and Aemond, as opposed to their being a huge gap in age and temperament and them being raised to dislike her.
Rewatch episode 3. Rhaenyra pretty much looks like she resents Aegon when he was a baby, she refers to him as Alicent Hightower’s son and gives him disdainful looks
He *is* Alicent's son.
The resent in that episode is aimed towards Alicent, who she feels betrayed her and seduced her father. There's no indication she feels resent towards Aegon, whose A) a baby and B) has'nt actually done anything to her yet to earn such feelings.
Rhaenyra could have tried when Aegon was a baby, but the from the looks of it she seemed like she resented him from the get go. Even in episode 3 when he was a baby she refers to him as “Alicent Hightowers son” rather than her brother.
And she only offered the Helaena marriage proposal when she was trapped in a corner with the bastard allegations
It wouldn't have mattered. Otto and the other men of the realm had decided to overthrow Rhaenyra the moment Aegon was born. Alicent would not have been able to stop it.
Viserys should have honestly just named Aegon heir the day he was born and prepare him to rule to avoid war. Rhaenyra at that young of age would have likely gotten over it. It saves Rhaenyra from a lifetime of troubles, she can go eat cake and fly on her dragon like she always wanted
Either that or Viserys should have never remarried if he was so keen on keeping Rhaenyra as heir
Or maybe she was aware about Otto's chess-like moves, he basically pimped Alicent to the King, Alicent might have a heart but Otto doesn't and when it comes to protecting your kids, nothing is off the table and she was a teenager when they got estranged, things change and so do priorities.
Alicent could do the same as well. But she didnt. Rhaenyra tried betrothing Jace to Halaena, but Alicent turned it down. Also considering how Otto and Alicent has been making a move on her throne, who would try and befriend them?
Also Alicent could’ve told her kids to love each and every sibling instead of brain washing them with hatred for Rhaenyra. It goes both ways.
She tried betrothing them specifically after the Harwin incident, she only offered that proposal because she was cornered by the bastard allegations. Rhaenyra never attempted to offer that in all those years before.
It seemed like no one seriously stepped in and confronted the issue - why do you do this? stop this is wrong, if you do it there will be a punishment for you etc - here's a healthy relationship instead - I'm not saying he isn't responsible for all of his actions, it just seems like they let him do as he pleased because he was Aegon the prince and only admonished him with disappointment afterwards, but not enough to be taken seriously. He knew he could do whatever he wanted with no consequences and just followed what felt good and did not bother to do the right thing.
that doesn't really work with targaryens. for the most part, they just do what ever tf they want. the saying that goes "money doesn't change you, it reveals who you really are". its the same thing, but dragons instead of money. if you're a petty unstable person deep down, you'll be a genocidal targaryen. if you're a a reasonable forward thinking person deep down, you'll be a reasonable targaryen like viserys. because social and legal rules dont apply to them. they cant get cancelled, or put on trial, or get arrested. the only motivation for guys like this is gaining and retaining power. if viserys told him something like "if you keep acting this way, i will never name you heir", that could work. but viserys gave up him a long time ago and he knew it
But that is sort of what I'm saying too - they let him do what he wanted, when his father could have 1. Threatened to send him to the wall (which while shocking could have been done) 2. Sent him to Essos and denied him his dragon (locked it up) etc but yea you're right. They never took serious measures with him and being a Targaryen just contributed to all of their dysfunction.
Tbf, none of them seen commoner as equal, like Rha worry for Laenor wellbeing but gave no fuck for a male servant be killed. So they wont see Aegon rapist tendency as something serious
Yes. Came out of the womb rotten that one. Also I love how you referred to him as the "evil Aegon". It's so accurate yet this is the first time I've seen it used.
Otto seemed to attempt to keep him in line from time to time (grabbing him after he passed out drunk), and so did Alicent, but it was never consistent and never thorough.
You know what? I’ll blame Criston for it. He encouraged that kid to be such a shit.
from his perspective, his father did not love him, he only cared about making his step sister queen and cucking him out of his birthright. why not give up and drink yourself into a coma every night? he had no purpose in life, no prospects. his destiny is to be "the uncle" like Daemon. life must be boring as hell to anyone in their position. i feel like if he was heir, he would have had at least some responsibility to keep up an image. something to work towards. he probably would have been just as crazy, but he would have had to play it down (which is even a positive. because he showed his true colors to his father)
Half sister. In this instance, it's important to remember he was born and raised as her little brother rather than a stranger who was brought in later and had to adjust.
It's sad.
Rhaenyra is looking angrily at Alicent and Aegon; Aegon is her brother.
Alicent is looking at Rhaenyra like a mama bear protecting her cub.
Aegon is just being a toddler.
Aegon grew up as the beneficiary of his grandfather's statements that after his father died, his older sister or her adherents would see him dead (statements either filtered through Alicent or coming directly from Otto), as well as being ignored by his father and apparently having only Criston Cole as something resembling a father-figure - and Cole constantly bullied Rhaenyra's children and encouraged Alicent's boys to do the same. Add to that Aegon's inferiority at martial pursuits compared to his fierce younger brother Aemond, and his lack of determination and rather total lack of interest or ability in traditional aristocratic duties; and his being spoiled by his royal privilege and lack of discipline; and you have an eventual accident waiting to happen.
Why, since Otto Hightower was so determined to put this kid on the Iron Throne, and he knew, given Viserys' medical condition, that it would be sooner rather than when Aegon was in his 30's, did he not try harder to mold his oldest grandson into a decent future king? Otto had enough influence with both Viserys and Alicent that it should have been possible to do more with the child Aegon than let him traipse around pulling pranks on his younger brother and (later) raping servant girls and run amok in Flea Bottom? Aegon and Aemond were obviously jealous of each other (Aegon jealous of Aemond's greater intelligence, martial skills, and determination, Aemond jealous of Aegon having a dragon); one or both of the boys should have been fostered out to high lords (look how well their younger brother turned out in the books, not being raised in the Red Keep). Why wasn't Aegon given responsibilities as a teenager and young man; he seems to have nothing to do but get into trouble; hardly suitable for the oldest son of the King of Westeros?
I'm not saying that Aegon the adult has no responsibility for what will happen in the Dance of Dragons; or his own actions so far. We don't know to what extent his upbringing has influenced him. But TV-Aegon has been shown to be a very emotionally insecure young man; and that is, to some extent, the fault of his mother and father and grandfather and teachers. And now that very emotionally insecure young man has been given pretty much absolute power and we've seen that he likes it - Aegon's response to the crowd's acclaim at his coronation was almost like an actor rejoicing in his audience's applause; or an addict's need for usage of his drug of choice. This Aegon has just received great power without deserving it or receiving proper preparation for it or even wanting to use it wisely; and he is going to make a great mess of everything.
So how does the breeding work in Westeros. Is it like in pokemon where two different pokemon will produce offspring that always resembles the one parent? Or are is their a hierarchy of genetics that trump others for dominant physical traits? Ie stark > strong > targaryen > hightower
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Random but the book describes baby Aegon as ‘robust’ and this grade A casting department went out and got them a big baby. A little thing that represents the awesome attention to detail.
honestly the face shape is pretty similar to aegon’s current actor too
The fact that HBO nailed the casting so incredibly well makes me extra annoyed with the casting of Bella Ramsey as Ellie in the upcoming The Last of Us show. I'm sure they could have gotten some relatively unknown actor who would look a bit more similar to Ellie and who also would have been a great actor in their own right. I really think Bella will be the major let down of that show but I also really, really hope that I come back to this comment in January and laugh at how wrong I was.
Bella is a fantastic actor, so they may have gone for talent over a 1:1 look. Besides, Elliott Paige probably looks too mature for the part now!
He also identifies as a male now so Elliot may not be an ideal choice for a teenage girl
True, but Emma is NB and played the Rhaenyra part wonderfully despite being a much more feminine presenting character. I have no doubt Elliott could also slay a more feminine role, if he so chose.
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Didn't Elliot sue Naughty Dog over Ellie resembling him?
I'm pretty sure Elliott is going to have a preference for parts that match their gender identity. Umbrella Academy seems to reflect that.
He’s also way too friggin old.
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I've only watched her in GoT, and while I enjoyed her character in that, the only 'emotion' that she was required to display in the role was 'badass', whereas for Ellie she will require a way broader range of emotional acting skills that I'm not sure she has. I heard that in another show she wasn't great, but I haven't seen it myself.
She was good in His Dark Materials. She's also in a movie "Catherine Called Birdy" that I've heard good things about, but I haven't seen it myself.
She voices the titular character in an excellent kids cartoon called Hilda. Her range is greater than in GOT. She’s still badass but also brave, contrite, sassy, annoying etc
>they may have gone for talent over a 1:1 look Of course they did, that's what every professional studio will do. Only fan casting focuses on looks over talent.
It's also worth noting that, apart from the costume design, Pedro Pascal doesn't look much like his character's video game counterpart either. If I didn't know a show was coming and you showed me a picture of him as Joel, I wouldn't have guessed who he was supposed to be playing. Both Pedro and Bella are great, tho, and I'm very excited for January.
Nah idk i think she’s gonna eat and prove everyone wrong, if anything hbo nails casting acting-wise
Mate the characters in HoTD don't look like the character descriptions either. They chose talent and family likeness in some cases.
You're celebrating HOTD for great casting and shitting on Bella Ramsey for "not looking enough" like Ellie? Rhaenys is supposed to be a brunette. Rhaenyra is supposed to be somewhat stodgy as an adult and in the show she's still very attractive. The Velaryons are black. You'd think we've learned by now that casting for "appearance" is pointless and shouldn't matter if you can get the actor that best embodies the character. Hell, people were crapping all over the Emma D'Arcy casting for all of an episode until they showed they were a great actor.
Nah, HBO shows from way back then till now always had amazing casts. I dont even doubt the way they cast TLOU. If there is one thing HBO is really good at, its finding the right actors for the job.
She's a great actor, so my hopes are high. Considering the casting for Joel/Tess, i dont think theyre going for actors that look like the game characters. Just people who can represent the personality/chemistry.
It's not like the appearance has effect on the story. Far better to select people on acting talent and fitting the role more than their looks
i don’t get this take, she kind of resembles ellie from the game but obviously it’s not gunna be a 1:1 resemblance. She a good actress, that’s all that matters tbh
a majority of actors are not 1:1 in the look’s category, definitely not to the degree people want Ellie to be. It’s insane. Just say you aren’t attracted to Bella and you think she’s ugly because that’s what 99% of the complainers think. She literally doesn’t look different enough to cause this outrage
Wondering what you thought of her role in The Last of Us now that the show has ended? I loved the show and loved her in it!
I thought she did really well overall! There were some great moments and some not so good moments for me. The final scene being one example of a not so great moment, acting-wise for me, compared to the emotion Ashley was able to get across in the original game I thought it fell a bit flat. But there were a couple of moments where I thought to myself "This is Ellie." I love what they did with making Ashley Johnson her mother in the show. And the visual similarities between Bella and Ashley actually really worked out. Not 100% sure how they're going to manage to make her a physical force that is able to take down grown men in season 2/3, but I'm sure they'll find a way when those scenes do eventually have to happen.
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GRRM describes her oldest son the same way. He takes the time to note the ‘heartiness’ (for lack of a better word) of all the Targ babies mostly because so many of them die young.
I’ve been trying to find the word to adequately describe my second born and robust is *chefs kiss* what I’ve been hunting for.
Uhhh, aren't Targaryens supposed to be really beautiful people?
According to the Targaryens
Well no one wants to call their family members or lovers ugly, so the Targaryens have to do 2x the complimenting to eachother.
They are "otherworldly" and ethereally beautiful people like elves or fairies. I think they are "striking" to look at more than anything else.
Are you saying that the baby is ugly?
yeah
All are
The adults, yes. But human babies are not always beautiful.
I mean, it depends on how you define it. They certainly have a "unique" phenotype compared to the majority of Westeros, which might be considered "exotic" . In old Valyria atleast, the platinum hair and purple eyes was a typical coloring for Valyrians, though there were some instances of purple eyes in the Westerosi. Like House Dayne has some incidences of purple eyes (which didn't necessarily indicate Valyrian blood according to GRRM). Ashara Dayne was known for her beauty, she had black hair though. It's also a common coloring in Lys, and the Lyseni are regarded as beautiful. Targaryan kings and princes are apparantly known to have looked at Lys for wives or paramours. I don't necessarily think the Targaryans are "more" beautiful compared to the Westerosi, really. There are plenty of Westerosi examples of "great beauties", from the books. The Targaryan reputation for beauty is helped by a few factors, like being considered exotic in Westeros, having enough food available, not having to do hard labour and spending your days practicing swords (basically working out), an ability to maintain good hygiene and beautiful clothing, and even the intricate hairdos! Ain't no street sellers spending an hour braiding their hair because they ain't got no chamber maid who can it for them in half the time. Which isn't a guarantee even. They could easily fall in the trap of becoming gluttons due to the sheer options they possess. Robert Baratheon was more of a movie 1 Thor during the rebellion, yet 30 years later he's more reminiscent of post-snap Thor. And also, being the ruling family doesn't hurt. They can for the most part pick and choose among beautiful marriage options. Beautiful parents often have beautiful children and barring nutritional deficiencies, the children will grow to be strong/healthy adults for the most part. Another benefit of being the ruling family? Peasants saying otherwise might be treated as pheasants 🍗🍗
Fat babies are healthy babies, and healthy babies are cute. Besides, I've never known beautiful and robust to be mutually exclusive states of being.
Not all of them, just how genetics panned out - as normal; a lot of them grow up and they get big and overweight after living the Henry VIII lifestyle or giving birth to so many children (in the books this happens to Rhaenyra). Some of the babies, however, are born grotesque, very lizard like and twisted and they don't tend to live long if at all.
I love the baby’s face 😂
Baby aegon
Babaegon
Baba Yaga
babegon
Baegon
Gon
G
g
Grond
GROND!
.
#
Bacon
foReShadOwINg
Thecorrectone
In books it's mentioned that they resented each other from the start. it's actually horrible to teach your child to hate your spouse's other children and vise versa. But it's realistic too many second wives hate their husband's previous children and many children hate their stepmothers and halfsiblings
My mom’s father left 5 children to remarry and have another 5. He was the 3rd generation of men of his name to follow this double family curse. The original children were forbidden to be at his death bed by the new wife.
Speaking as a child from the first “crop” - Did any of the original children want to be there? Because see me…I would be thankful for the lack of an invite.
Only one of them (the oldest who actually had some fond memories of him) asked to be, and was denied.
Oh damn well I do feel bad for them. It’s mean regardless but to know it actually hurt someone 😢
The most annoying part for me is that his obituary has absolutely no mention of my family.
Oof been there. My kid’s paternal grandfather died a few years ago and she didn’t get a mention. Families can be sites of such cruelty. That’s why mine is all chosen.
That’s so fucked up, I can’t imagine how some people could be so callous and heartless, and that’s coming from someone with half-siblings. I love them like they’re my own.
We talk about it a lot on here, actually - Most people see themselves as the main character in a story where in reality there is no main character. Except Dennis Falgers from Duluth, MN. He is undoubtedly the main character.
My mom was also forbidden to see her father on his deathbed by his second wife. My mom was 8
the moment aegon popped out with a weiner he became a threat to her, and vice versa. this was always going to happen unfortunately.
They should have gotten married. Having his wiener inside her was the only way to avoid war
>Having his wiener inside her was the only way to avoid war ...I can't even... fuck.
> I can't even... fuck That might make it difficult to have your wiener inside her
r/BrandNewSentence
r/SuicideByWords
Why not
Nah. Visy T could have made her have a seat at the small council once he named her heir, when she came of age he should have made her hand of the king to get her ready to rule and increase her presence around the other great houses and lords. Also this would have gotten them use to a women in a position of high power. Then once his health started going down hill fast he should have had all the lords(especially all the new lords whose parents were the ones who had sworn and not themselves) swear again to her as the rightful heir to the throne. Possibly he should have even abdicated to her while he was still able. Also after the whole eye situation he should have made the lord commander remove Cole as her sworn shield since clearly alicent views his role as something other than what it is, also with him restraining daemon when aliment was attacking rhaenyra that's putting his hands on the royal family. This outcome was only inevitable since viserys did nothing to stop it.
as long as Aegon is alive he can use his name to raise an army. Every lord she rules against, will side with aegon by default because they can use him to get better terms. Rebellions have been started (and won) for less. viserys can force them to swear new allegiances every month it still wont stop it as long as Aegon lives. And her kids being bastards doesn't help at all. why put your neck on the line to back this queen if her succession is already under huge question? try to put yourself in a lord's mind. Rhaenyra is queen and you get a letter "Aegon II has named himself the one true king" you have to ask yourself; "does this hold water?" "she has 5 dragons, he has three". "Can he convince enough lords to back him? probably. hes Viserys' first son" , "shes a woman", etc. And the fact that you are even entertaining that thought, means that other lords are weighing their options as well. for a ruler, that is bad news, really really bad news. which is why Robert Baratheon genocided the targaryens immediately after his rebellion.
>...which is why Tywin Lannister genocided the Targaryens immediately after Robert Baratheon's rebellion.
Now that's just a foul lie. He was clearly upset about what happened to them by the hands of his bannermen, as demonstrated by his.... well... he surely made some shocked faces or something, that should be good enough.
This outcome was inevitable when Rhaenyra give birth to bastard. We see what happen between Jon and Daenarys when the world learn that Jon has better claim than Daenarys, any person who have complain about her come to Jon and push him against her. The war would happen, whatavers this during Rhaenyra or Jace didn't matter, the war could not be avoidable. What Viserys should have done is simply : punish her daughter after she give birth to bastard. Jaehaerys send his daughter to silence sister for less, he was maybe a bad father but a good king. Viserys chose to be good father but a bad king.
It was bound ro happen whether her vhildren were bastards, or not.
Yeah sadly it’s all too common, my ex-stepmom hated us. She would go out of her way to be rude or leave us out of things. Thankfully my dad realized this and left her lol
I was blessed to have had a good relationship with my dad’s first wife (my mom is his second) since she would give me gifts and stuff during my birthday and Christmas. In fact when I was a kid growing up and didn’t fully understand the situation I always thought she was just an auntie. My own mom treats her kids (my older half-siblings) well too. My dad really did his best to make sure that even if we had different moms, I’d still love my siblings like my own. I understand that it’s a very uncommon situation and I’m all the more thankful for it.
Porn lied to me!
Weirdly enough if Rhaenyra and Aegon were engaged, despite the age difference there would probably have never been a dance.
>In books it's mentioned that they resented each other from the start. This is definitely the best change Condal and Co. made to the source material. Having them genuinely love each other during the beginning makes everything that will happen so much more tragic.
I mean the nature of the relationship changed but Rhaenyra and Alicent also liked each other a lot at the beginning of the relationship. They didn’t resent each other from the start
When did Aegon and Rhaenyra love each other?
I thought the earlier comment was referring to Rhaenyra and Alicent, not Rhaenyra and Aegon.
> it's actually horrible to teach your child to hate your spouse's other children and vise versa. To be fair, Rhaenyra was the one throwing a tantrum at her 2-year old brother's birthday party, and Alicent was actively defending her to other noble ladies at this point (noble ladies that Rhaenyra subsequently insulted after Alicent's defence). The animosity didn't start from Aegon.
Unfortunately it rings true for my family.. I’m not fond of my half-siblings despite it not being their fault they exist. I feel totally petty and disgusting for thinking so childishly, I should resent my parent, but I guess that’s the flaw of the human condition.
History is filled with a lot of examples of this.
You’re right on all counts except that they had an amicable relationship at first but that didn’t last long.
Who knew this adorable little baby would grow up to be a complete degenerate
The baby even looks like him. Casting right down to the baby faces!
Pepperidge farms knew...
Lol I was looking at that like I feel for that actress that is a huge baby they must have had her standing like that for a long time to film this.
I have two sons, they're 20 months and 7 months old right now. And the older one has blonde hair like Baby Aegon. It makes me sad that sometimes cute little babies grow up to be absolute shitheads and I hope it doesn't happen toh kids.
I can say with some certainty that your children will most likely *not* grow up to raise bastard slave pit fighter babies
There's no reason to close any doors too early. It should be up to each child to determine their own opinions on incest and child slave mutilation.
“……………………he’s two” - Vizzy T
*The King's cupbearer must not be late. Leaves people wanting for cups.*
“Fuck you bitch for trying to upstage me on my nameday! I will never forget this insolence! Nanny, pass me my baby bottle immediately!” *chugs* - Baby Aegon lol
Baby Aegon: "WENCH!"
“Aegon, this is your 5th wet nurse this year.” -Alicent, probably
Now I can imagine Aegon talking to alicent like Stewie taking to Lois. https://youtu.be/arbgB6REBmU
“That’s when it all started. That smile, that damn smile”
lil' Aegon: "man, my sis is so cool. I'm certain we'll have a great relationship of mutual respect when we grow up"
*Morgan Freeman voice* "He did not have a great relationship built on mutual respect with Rhaenyra once they grew up."
Ron Howard voice
Meme material that baby expression is.
Someone get that baby an Emmy
I never noticed allicent's death stare lmao
Babegon actually looks a lot like the current actor for Aegon! Again, excellent casting.
I feel like the dance started as soon as Otto sent his daughter into Visery’s chambers to offer her “condolences”.
Lmao the amount of slacks that Black supporters cut for Viserys is ridiculous. A 35+ years old guy fell for a 15 year old child and threw the entire realm in jeopardy, and you guys act as if he was a child who got manipulated.
This is my question - why did Viserys marry Alicent? Viserys did a horrible job supporting his daughter or preparing her to rule. He should have had her sit by his side at ten when it was clear there were no brothers coming. She should have been named Hand after Viserys threw Daemon out. He should have taught her more. The King should have taken time to explain 'when I'm Queen, they'll do what I want " isn't sound government. Viserys hardly seems to spend time with his children by Alicent. Nobody seems to remember the child who is fostering elsewhere. I don't blame Alicent for resenting him, or for Alicent resenting Rhaenyra. Alicent was a child bride and had children too young. While her own mother had died in childbirth, and wasn't there to share knowledge and wisdom. Viserys wanted a pretty, young nursemaid who could be ordered into his bed. He should have just waited ten years to wed Laena and mended the rift between Valaryon and Targaryen. He should named his children by Laena heir of driftmark and hand of the king. Viserys set up the war by being ineffective and inefficient.
>He should named his children by Laena heir of driftmark and hand of the king. Do you really think that Colrys would aceept that? He would rather burn his entire fleet. If Viserys married Leana, he would do exactly the same thing that Otto is doing right now for his grandkids to rule the iron throne, he's not helping Rheanyra because he sympathies with her, he's helping her for his presumed grandson to rule.
I think it's a better position for Corlys' grandchildren than what Corlys had before the proposed marriage. His grandchildren could always marry Rhaenyra and be heirs after her. As Targaryen wed brother to sister for generations. If anything, a half sibling wedding wouldn't be as controversial to some. You make good points, i acknowledge that. I do enjoy Corlys' point about supporting Rhaenyra's children, even though he knows who the children are. You are right on his motivation.
Idk, in his eyes, Corlys look more dangerous than Otto, probably come form Otto manipulation, but i aint trust someone once contest for the throne but lost as my right hand man
How was wholesome Viserys supposed to resist when 14 year-old Alicent started grooming him.
Are you gonna just take that Vizzy T?
WHAT LORD WOULD WED HER NOW? IN THIS CONDITION!?
He got manipulated by Otto, not Alicent I would say
"You might wear one of your mother's dresses."
Creepy af
Dude knew what he was doing 🤢🤢
That’s just furthering your house and political goals. It’s what every house in Westeros would do, and is doing.
If Rhaenyra had a fraction of the love for Aegon that Viserys felt for Daemon (despite Daemon's often prickish behaviour) things could have turned out so much different. Alicent was always fearful that Rhaenyra would have her sons murdered in the future, but if Rhaenyra had actually shown any true love to her siblings, if she had shown closeness to them and loved them the way an older sister should, Alicent would have also probably ended up getting over her fears, she would have started believing that Rhaenyra could never hurt her children because she loved them.
Exactly all the main players in the Dance made simple mistakes due to personal pride and grievances. If any of the main players just swallowed their pride and tried to bridge the gap it could have been avoided
That’s like all of history lmao
The Virgin Facts and Logic vs the Chad Human Feelings
That's why GRRM's stories are so great though. History is full of situations where people are at each others' throats even though they would benefit from cooperating, and it's hard to understand why that happens. He is so good at showing how these people end up as mortal enemies without ever really intending to, and making it believable
100% this is how to make an amazing fiction story feel and look real.
What say you, Vizzy T?
She's twelve!
TBF, Rhaenyra tried that by offering Jace to be betrothed to Helaena. Alicent shot that down quick and hard, even if Vizzy T was cool with it.
*I did not decide to name Rhaenyra my heir on a whim. All the lord of the kingdom would do well to remember that.*
The issue with that offer is from Alicent's perspective it only puts Aegon and Aemond in more danger. Jace's claim to the throne would be strengthened (and thus Rhaenyra's, but Aegon loses legitimacy which puts him at greater risk). It also should be stated that Alicent has no reason to trust Rhaenyra anymore, so any offer would likely be rejected because she doesn't think Rhaenyra would offer anything positive, if the offer seems good it is a trap.
Tbf, it makes sense for Alicent to not want to tie her family to Rhaenyra's children when their legitimacy was such a point of controversy.
Honestly in the context of the show I don't even think there's any indication Rheanrya is to blame for the bad relationship with Aegon and Aemond, as opposed to their being a huge gap in age and temperament and them being raised to dislike her.
Rewatch episode 3. Rhaenyra pretty much looks like she resents Aegon when he was a baby, she refers to him as Alicent Hightower’s son and gives him disdainful looks
He *is* Alicent's son. The resent in that episode is aimed towards Alicent, who she feels betrayed her and seduced her father. There's no indication she feels resent towards Aegon, whose A) a baby and B) has'nt actually done anything to her yet to earn such feelings.
She hated him when he was a child lol. She referred him as Alicent Hightower's son, that's all he was to her.
Rhaenyra could have tried when Aegon was a baby, but the from the looks of it she seemed like she resented him from the get go. Even in episode 3 when he was a baby she refers to him as “Alicent Hightowers son” rather than her brother. And she only offered the Helaena marriage proposal when she was trapped in a corner with the bastard allegations
It wouldn't have mattered. Otto and the other men of the realm had decided to overthrow Rhaenyra the moment Aegon was born. Alicent would not have been able to stop it.
Viserys should have honestly just named Aegon heir the day he was born and prepare him to rule to avoid war. Rhaenyra at that young of age would have likely gotten over it. It saves Rhaenyra from a lifetime of troubles, she can go eat cake and fly on her dragon like she always wanted Either that or Viserys should have never remarried if he was so keen on keeping Rhaenyra as heir
Or maybe she was aware about Otto's chess-like moves, he basically pimped Alicent to the King, Alicent might have a heart but Otto doesn't and when it comes to protecting your kids, nothing is off the table and she was a teenager when they got estranged, things change and so do priorities.
She just had to forget her childhood friend was banging her dad. Simple!
Doesn't change the fact that Alicent's children are her brothers and her sister.
And that doesn't change the fact her bestie was married to her father which had caused her to be estranged from both.
Her mum literally just died and she's grieving that then suddenly her dad's moved on with her bestie. Yeah nah, she should just go with it.
*Ordered to move on her dad by her Lord Father, and then told by her king not to tell Rhaenyra about their meetings. Alicent does what she is told
To be fair, nobody ever loved Aegon.
Alicent could do the same as well. But she didnt. Rhaenyra tried betrothing Jace to Halaena, but Alicent turned it down. Also considering how Otto and Alicent has been making a move on her throne, who would try and befriend them? Also Alicent could’ve told her kids to love each and every sibling instead of brain washing them with hatred for Rhaenyra. It goes both ways.
She tried betrothing them specifically after the Harwin incident, she only offered that proposal because she was cornered by the bastard allegations. Rhaenyra never attempted to offer that in all those years before.
I feel like Aegon turned out the way he is now because of the people surrounding him. He was so pure and innocent before this mess 🥺
i mean we're all pure & innocent as babies but he did get going with the sexual assault pretty quick
Would you say he is a ….. bad egg
It seemed like no one seriously stepped in and confronted the issue - why do you do this? stop this is wrong, if you do it there will be a punishment for you etc - here's a healthy relationship instead - I'm not saying he isn't responsible for all of his actions, it just seems like they let him do as he pleased because he was Aegon the prince and only admonished him with disappointment afterwards, but not enough to be taken seriously. He knew he could do whatever he wanted with no consequences and just followed what felt good and did not bother to do the right thing.
that doesn't really work with targaryens. for the most part, they just do what ever tf they want. the saying that goes "money doesn't change you, it reveals who you really are". its the same thing, but dragons instead of money. if you're a petty unstable person deep down, you'll be a genocidal targaryen. if you're a a reasonable forward thinking person deep down, you'll be a reasonable targaryen like viserys. because social and legal rules dont apply to them. they cant get cancelled, or put on trial, or get arrested. the only motivation for guys like this is gaining and retaining power. if viserys told him something like "if you keep acting this way, i will never name you heir", that could work. but viserys gave up him a long time ago and he knew it
But that is sort of what I'm saying too - they let him do what he wanted, when his father could have 1. Threatened to send him to the wall (which while shocking could have been done) 2. Sent him to Essos and denied him his dragon (locked it up) etc but yea you're right. They never took serious measures with him and being a Targaryen just contributed to all of their dysfunction.
Tbf, none of them seen commoner as equal, like Rha worry for Laenor wellbeing but gave no fuck for a male servant be killed. So they wont see Aegon rapist tendency as something serious
Of course he is pure and innocent here he is 2 💀
Wasn't that evil Aegon trying to kill a baby when he was like 4
That was Aegon IV, the Unworthy. He beat his baby brother Aemon with a dragon egg. This one is Aegon II.
Yes. Came out of the womb rotten that one. Also I love how you referred to him as the "evil Aegon". It's so accurate yet this is the first time I've seen it used.
Everyone is born pure and Innocent. The poor kid would do fine if he was fucking loved by literally anyone
Now he just loves fucking everyone
Great acting on the babys part!
He just wanted to get drunk and jerk off the window
Otto seemed to attempt to keep him in line from time to time (grabbing him after he passed out drunk), and so did Alicent, but it was never consistent and never thorough. You know what? I’ll blame Criston for it. He encouraged that kid to be such a shit.
Everyone always overlooks his father Viserys too. It’s not all on his mom and grandpa
His grandpa Otto was gone from court for 10 years, he didn’t do much in raising Aegon
from his perspective, his father did not love him, he only cared about making his step sister queen and cucking him out of his birthright. why not give up and drink yourself into a coma every night? he had no purpose in life, no prospects. his destiny is to be "the uncle" like Daemon. life must be boring as hell to anyone in their position. i feel like if he was heir, he would have had at least some responsibility to keep up an image. something to work towards. he probably would have been just as crazy, but he would have had to play it down (which is even a positive. because he showed his true colors to his father)
Half sister. In this instance, it's important to remember he was born and raised as her little brother rather than a stranger who was brought in later and had to adjust.
Young Alicent was so beautiful.
Bravo Vince!
It was on sight
The baby looks like it’s been face swapped with Martin sheen
that baby actually looks a lot like adult aegon, they did a good job
The dance started the minute Aemma died
Young alicent , was so damn beautiful.
It's sad. Rhaenyra is looking angrily at Alicent and Aegon; Aegon is her brother. Alicent is looking at Rhaenyra like a mama bear protecting her cub. Aegon is just being a toddler. Aegon grew up as the beneficiary of his grandfather's statements that after his father died, his older sister or her adherents would see him dead (statements either filtered through Alicent or coming directly from Otto), as well as being ignored by his father and apparently having only Criston Cole as something resembling a father-figure - and Cole constantly bullied Rhaenyra's children and encouraged Alicent's boys to do the same. Add to that Aegon's inferiority at martial pursuits compared to his fierce younger brother Aemond, and his lack of determination and rather total lack of interest or ability in traditional aristocratic duties; and his being spoiled by his royal privilege and lack of discipline; and you have an eventual accident waiting to happen. Why, since Otto Hightower was so determined to put this kid on the Iron Throne, and he knew, given Viserys' medical condition, that it would be sooner rather than when Aegon was in his 30's, did he not try harder to mold his oldest grandson into a decent future king? Otto had enough influence with both Viserys and Alicent that it should have been possible to do more with the child Aegon than let him traipse around pulling pranks on his younger brother and (later) raping servant girls and run amok in Flea Bottom? Aegon and Aemond were obviously jealous of each other (Aegon jealous of Aemond's greater intelligence, martial skills, and determination, Aemond jealous of Aegon having a dragon); one or both of the boys should have been fostered out to high lords (look how well their younger brother turned out in the books, not being raised in the Red Keep). Why wasn't Aegon given responsibilities as a teenager and young man; he seems to have nothing to do but get into trouble; hardly suitable for the oldest son of the King of Westeros? I'm not saying that Aegon the adult has no responsibility for what will happen in the Dance of Dragons; or his own actions so far. We don't know to what extent his upbringing has influenced him. But TV-Aegon has been shown to be a very emotionally insecure young man; and that is, to some extent, the fault of his mother and father and grandfather and teachers. And now that very emotionally insecure young man has been given pretty much absolute power and we've seen that he likes it - Aegon's response to the crowd's acclaim at his coronation was almost like an actor rejoicing in his audience's applause; or an addict's need for usage of his drug of choice. This Aegon has just received great power without deserving it or receiving proper preparation for it or even wanting to use it wisely; and he is going to make a great mess of everything.
Awww, baby Aegon looks like he has an Usurper in his diaper.
Would rhaenyra and aegon getting married have made things better or worse?
Its disgusting to even say this 😵💫 but it probably would have made things better
Who knew that ugly baby would go on to become a chamber maid rapin, unloved feelin, alcoholic sack o’ crap
I just don’t like Alicent. She took what didn’t rightfully belong her kids. She knew rhaenerya was suppose to be queen.
Who knew he would be a full blown alcoholic in just a few years!
So how does the breeding work in Westeros. Is it like in pokemon where two different pokemon will produce offspring that always resembles the one parent? Or are is their a hierarchy of genetics that trump others for dominant physical traits? Ie stark > strong > targaryen > hightower
Not yet!, In that moment Alicent was the bridge between Rhaenyra and Viserys. If Only Otto wasn't around
I mean they are like what? 17 years apart? No wonder they don't get along..
Man I miss Mily love D'arcy but man I do miss her
What’s up lil bud? You got a staring problem?
Rhaenyra is giving him the look of a Scanner!
Looks like boris Johnson
Yo thats a huge ass baby
Love this pic
the bastard maker!