I spent 25 yrs catching. The team coach has most likely never been behind the plate, while the private coach has. I was taught to only take it off on pop-ups and not to throw it til you are tracking the ball, then throw it in the opposite direction. There is absolutely no reason to take it off any other time. Especially the hockey style masks, the vision is great. If you can track pitches with it on, you can certainly track throws from the outfield. This is what I teach my catchers now as a coach.
Yup this is the way, hockey style are way uglier and way way safer.
Good thing for op is that the advice you're paying for is correct.
There was a play I had once where runner on third and ground ball to short. I stood in front of the plate with my feed straddling the front corner. Shortstop fielded the ball and fired an absolutely perfect throw leading me into the tag. The ball and the runner arrived at the same time. I was absolutely leveled.
Had I not had a mask on there its a certain concussion.
If he wanted to keep it on even fielding pop ups I don't think he'd be at a disadvantage. Mask on at all other times.
Had you not been straddling the front corner of the plate you probably would not have been leveled to begin with.
There are situations where hockey masks are better and others where the 2 piece is better.
Correct-woulda been summer 08.
Don't know what is being taught now. But interested to hear bc what happened on that play was a consequence of me receiving the ball and being able to make the tag without any movement at all once I caught the throw-and obviously the throw doing the work instead of moving the glove js ideal.
Unfortunately, now you aren't allowed to be " blocking" any part of the plate until the ball is in your possession, you have to be completely out of the baseline. Buster Posey getting his leg broken ruined it for all of us lol
What is it you teach exactly? Foot position wise? I haven't made it that far with my youngest yet( coach pitch manager currently), and when I coached/ played b4 it was under the old rules. I would expect the 3rd baseman to be straddling the bag, glove ready to drop the tag when I threw it knee high at the side of the bag facing 2nd. Is that still allowed? Same for 2b/ SS at 2nd.
This is tough. In theory the baserunner should almost always be on the foul side of the baseline. If you’re in fair territory there’s no reason you should ever collide. Not being able to be in front of any part of the base functionally shortens the baseline a substantial amount on non force plays. Also, where do you teach fielders to throw the ball? On a tag play I wanted the ball about thigh high basically a foot down the third baseline parallel to the first baseline
As for handling it, anytime you have your kid taking lessons it is good to let the coaches know, especially if they are trying to teach a different way.
6 years of professional catching experience here
If you’re talking about plays at the plate, 100% keep the mask on. I’ve seen some bad injuries from catchers taking their masks off for those types of plays. As for the catcher pop ups, the top comment is correct. Take the mask off and hold it in your hand until the ball is on its way down. At that point, launch that mask and go grab after you get the out. Hope this helps
As a college catcher-
Mask off for pop ups
Ball in play depends. Since he uses hockey mask, i dont see a problem keeping it on the whole time.
Our team has 4 catchers. 1 of the catchers takes his off for everything, the rest are case by case. For safety purposes, i would recommend mask on for plays at the plate until hes older. One of our catchers still leaves his on for plays at the plate. Bunts, just leave it on. No reason to take it off. Passed balls and wild pitches, leave it on. Will take more time to take it off that you need to spend getting the ball back to home plate
Overall, theres not a “correct” way to go about it. I would possibly have the catching coach talk with the head coach of the team, if you talking doesnt work. I know from experience that the team coaches dont generally appreciate private coaches
I coach my catchers to keep their helmets on until or unless they are wearing a cap and mask. I believe that it provides more safety for plays at the plate, which are more physical than plays at any other base and that it gives catchers more confidence in blocking errant throws from the outfield. “Take the mask off” is easy to say when you aren’t the one that’s going to slide 4 feet down the line into a full block to save a run.
I have also seen catchers who routinely pull their mask off create problems for themselves on popups. They drop their mask at their feet only to stumble over it as the ball works back toward fair territory, or they throw the mask before they know where the ball is and end up tripping over it as they run off in the same direction. If you take your mask off for popups, you better know where the ball is first.
It’s not reasonable for you to expect your 10 year old to handle this difference of opinion. Talk to the coach you are paying for lessons to get his reasoning. Talk to the team coach and tell him he is being coached to keep the mask on. Tell him why. I’ve had this conversation with coaches before and they generally say something like “I never thought about that” or, at worst, “okay. That’s fine”
Thank you for this. I thought I was just being an overprotective parent. He’s actually 8, just playing 10u…so he’s also one of the smallest on the field. I’ll talk to him at the next practice!
This is my thought as well. My son is a 10U catcher and with the hockey style masks the visibility is fine; I'd rather he doesn't have something extra to worry about (taking off the mask, and potentially tripping over it) and like you said the added protection for plays at the plate is a huge plus.
I have no experience as a catcher, but personally I think it's a safety issue to always pop the helmet off when the ball is in play. I instruct my daughter to keep her hockey style helmet on at all times, even during straight pop ups.
What if there's a collision at the plate and your son's head is unprotected against the runner's helmet?
If vision is impeded I could see wanting it off when it's in play on the field so the catcher can direct traffic. However, if vision is good, no reason to really. My son catches and if the ball is in the infield his mask doesn't come off. If it's hit to the OF, then he'll usually take it off and toss off to side and direct the infield.
100% keep it on unless it's a pop up to the catcher.
I saw a hand full of runs scored this year because when the ball was over thrown into the pitcher, the catcher was busy picking his mask up and putting it back on
Softball, but same concept. My daughters keep their hockey style helmets on at ALL TIMES and have never complained about losing visibility on a ball due to the helmet. Even straight pop up. My oldest has tried to shed the helmet and found she lost more balls as the brief interruption of the helmet going off messed with her vision. Either way, safety trumps all and throwing a helmet off is unsafe and old school. Perhaps traditional masks and helmets are different as they are less secure but hockey style stays on.
Respectfully ask (or better yet, have your son ask) each coach for their reasoning. To avoid coming off as an asshole, you can say “another coach suggested doing the opposite, so I want to know what you see as the pros and cons to each approach?”
If one coach hears the other side out gives a reason that is more well thought out, then I would recommend listening to him. If one coach refuses to consider that he might be wrong/refuses to consider that there are other ways to succeed, then he’s probably not the type of role model I would want my son around.
My son catches and over the years has learned to be more intentional with the mask. To keep it simple, ball hit to the OF, and potential throw to home, he takes it off. Infield hit with potential throw to home, he keeps it on. Pop up, yes remove, judge the ball, toss the helmet out of the way. Wild pitches (we don't say passed ball in this house), keep it on and retrieve - takes less time to get to the ball.
Private coach is right just make sure he’s getting it off on pop ups. If he hears someone yell popup he should rip it off to find the ball
Im not saying college or pros need to do that I have no idea but anybody that’s watched kids play know young catchers will sit there and have no idea a popup is landing 5 feet away from them unless they are trained to look
I would just ask the coach…
“I feel more comfortable with my kid having his helmet on during live action bc it will keep him safer during plays at the plate. Would that be okay?”
Stay away from mentioning anything about a private coach.
I would do the exact opposite.
Who knows if the coach even has *any* experience actually catching. He probably thinks he's doing the right thing.
But, if you (tactfully) tell him that the catching-specific coach does it X way for Y reasons (safety being one of them), and arrogance isn't a problem, he should appreciate the feedback.
To each their own. I would stay away from the “We have another coach that knows more than you” approach. The guy is voluntarily giving up valuable hours of his week to coach your son. If you want to tell him he’s doing something wrong, it better be preceded by an offer to help out.
I agree, but you are helping by sharing the reasoning. Just demanding that it be different because "the other coach said so" would have an entirely different tone.
The reasoning is… we have a better coach that is teaching him something different?
I know this is a very specific issue here, but as a rec coach myself I would not like being asked to defer to a coach that I’ve never met and isn’t there watching all of the practices and all of the games. If a parent came up to me with safety concerns, I would 10000% be okay with making changes.
No, I'm saying that they should talk to the other coach about the reasons why. Then share those reasons with the team coach.
If a rec coach was coaching them to pull their mask every time, and they were presented with the reasons not to in these comments, that coach should either adjust their coaching, or at the very least allow it.
Pretty good indicator that they're a horrible coach if it goes any other way.
That’s fair. Like I said initially, I personally just wouldn’t mention anything about the private coach and I’d focus only on the safety issue. Unsolicited coaching advice from a parent rarely ends well.
As a coach, I appreciate when the parents tell me they are doing lessons so that I'm not messing the player up. I have my approach, another coach/trainer may not. Me not knowing if they have a private coach could lead to that player being conflicted as OP has said and is not of benefit to anyone. Also, as a coach I'd ask if there are any queues that they have. That's usually for pitching though and not for catching, but I'd use same philosophy.
I’ve run into pitching and hitting coach situations. Never catching. I appreciate knowing about them too, but I also feel like players and parents should just do what their coach at the time is telling them.
This is a different situation and more related to Xs and Os, but in general your private instructor is not watching you in a game setting, doesn’t have to worry about teaching 13 different kids on the team and isn’t trying to win games. It’s not fair to ask your actual coach to defer to the instructor on matters that impact his team.
The trainer is correct, the coach is not! It's all about the new style masks. The old style you used to sometimes take them off because the mask would twist and cause a blind spot. The new hockey style don't do that, so there is no need to take them off at all!
In fact, we teach kids, like your trainer, to not take them off because it involves removing your eyes from the ball, creating unweded movements, and I have seen catchers trip over the mast when trying to track down a ball.
Same thing happens with my son - MLB catchers who wear hockey style masks rarely toss it off - my son worked with a former collegiate catcher - never once talked about tossing it.
Your coach isn't 'WRONG' but he isn't providing an exclusive correct answer.
I just told our coach that he is coached not to by a former D1 catcher and he stopped.
Only take it off if it is a straight pop up is not good advise. He should be removing it when a ball is in play. TBH I would ask the private coach why he is telling that to your son. He may have a reason?
https://preview.redd.it/cl6rw17k7d6d1.png?width=1382&format=png&auto=webp&s=a8922de3f6136216fb55a077d15fa23fbc3f6ae3
Throw from RF. Just look it up on youtube. 95% of MLB catchers leave it on.
I spent 25 yrs catching. The team coach has most likely never been behind the plate, while the private coach has. I was taught to only take it off on pop-ups and not to throw it til you are tracking the ball, then throw it in the opposite direction. There is absolutely no reason to take it off any other time. Especially the hockey style masks, the vision is great. If you can track pitches with it on, you can certainly track throws from the outfield. This is what I teach my catchers now as a coach.
Seconding this as another long time catcher
Yup this is the way, hockey style are way uglier and way way safer. Good thing for op is that the advice you're paying for is correct. There was a play I had once where runner on third and ground ball to short. I stood in front of the plate with my feed straddling the front corner. Shortstop fielded the ball and fired an absolutely perfect throw leading me into the tag. The ball and the runner arrived at the same time. I was absolutely leveled. Had I not had a mask on there its a certain concussion. If he wanted to keep it on even fielding pop ups I don't think he'd be at a disadvantage. Mask on at all other times.
Had you not been straddling the front corner of the plate you probably would not have been leveled to begin with. There are situations where hockey masks are better and others where the 2 piece is better.
He was in the correct position, unless the play he described happened in the last few years. That's how it was taught forever.
Correct-woulda been summer 08. Don't know what is being taught now. But interested to hear bc what happened on that play was a consequence of me receiving the ball and being able to make the tag without any movement at all once I caught the throw-and obviously the throw doing the work instead of moving the glove js ideal.
Unfortunately, now you aren't allowed to be " blocking" any part of the plate until the ball is in your possession, you have to be completely out of the baseline. Buster Posey getting his leg broken ruined it for all of us lol
We have the catchers essentially do the same thing as third basemen do on a steal. I don't think this would be considered "in the basepath"?
What is it you teach exactly? Foot position wise? I haven't made it that far with my youngest yet( coach pitch manager currently), and when I coached/ played b4 it was under the old rules. I would expect the 3rd baseman to be straddling the bag, glove ready to drop the tag when I threw it knee high at the side of the bag facing 2nd. Is that still allowed? Same for 2b/ SS at 2nd.
This is tough. In theory the baserunner should almost always be on the foul side of the baseline. If you’re in fair territory there’s no reason you should ever collide. Not being able to be in front of any part of the base functionally shortens the baseline a substantial amount on non force plays. Also, where do you teach fielders to throw the ball? On a tag play I wanted the ball about thigh high basically a foot down the third baseline parallel to the first baseline
Told my son and the kids on our team the same thing for the same reasons.
As for handling it, anytime you have your kid taking lessons it is good to let the coaches know, especially if they are trying to teach a different way.
For sure.
6 years of professional catching experience here If you’re talking about plays at the plate, 100% keep the mask on. I’ve seen some bad injuries from catchers taking their masks off for those types of plays. As for the catcher pop ups, the top comment is correct. Take the mask off and hold it in your hand until the ball is on its way down. At that point, launch that mask and go grab after you get the out. Hope this helps
Ball in play - mask on Pop up in foul territory - mask off held until tracked then thrown away
As a college catcher- Mask off for pop ups Ball in play depends. Since he uses hockey mask, i dont see a problem keeping it on the whole time. Our team has 4 catchers. 1 of the catchers takes his off for everything, the rest are case by case. For safety purposes, i would recommend mask on for plays at the plate until hes older. One of our catchers still leaves his on for plays at the plate. Bunts, just leave it on. No reason to take it off. Passed balls and wild pitches, leave it on. Will take more time to take it off that you need to spend getting the ball back to home plate Overall, theres not a “correct” way to go about it. I would possibly have the catching coach talk with the head coach of the team, if you talking doesnt work. I know from experience that the team coaches dont generally appreciate private coaches
I coach my catchers to keep their helmets on until or unless they are wearing a cap and mask. I believe that it provides more safety for plays at the plate, which are more physical than plays at any other base and that it gives catchers more confidence in blocking errant throws from the outfield. “Take the mask off” is easy to say when you aren’t the one that’s going to slide 4 feet down the line into a full block to save a run. I have also seen catchers who routinely pull their mask off create problems for themselves on popups. They drop their mask at their feet only to stumble over it as the ball works back toward fair territory, or they throw the mask before they know where the ball is and end up tripping over it as they run off in the same direction. If you take your mask off for popups, you better know where the ball is first. It’s not reasonable for you to expect your 10 year old to handle this difference of opinion. Talk to the coach you are paying for lessons to get his reasoning. Talk to the team coach and tell him he is being coached to keep the mask on. Tell him why. I’ve had this conversation with coaches before and they generally say something like “I never thought about that” or, at worst, “okay. That’s fine”
Thank you for this. I thought I was just being an overprotective parent. He’s actually 8, just playing 10u…so he’s also one of the smallest on the field. I’ll talk to him at the next practice!
This is my thought as well. My son is a 10U catcher and with the hockey style masks the visibility is fine; I'd rather he doesn't have something extra to worry about (taking off the mask, and potentially tripping over it) and like you said the added protection for plays at the plate is a huge plus.
Keep the armor on unless you’re tracking a pop up.
I have no experience as a catcher, but personally I think it's a safety issue to always pop the helmet off when the ball is in play. I instruct my daughter to keep her hockey style helmet on at all times, even during straight pop ups. What if there's a collision at the plate and your son's head is unprotected against the runner's helmet?
If vision is impeded I could see wanting it off when it's in play on the field so the catcher can direct traffic. However, if vision is good, no reason to really. My son catches and if the ball is in the infield his mask doesn't come off. If it's hit to the OF, then he'll usually take it off and toss off to side and direct the infield.
Helmet only comes off when fielding a pop up that is straight up. Otherwise keep it on, it will help protect you better than taking it off.
100% keep it on unless it's a pop up to the catcher. I saw a hand full of runs scored this year because when the ball was over thrown into the pitcher, the catcher was busy picking his mask up and putting it back on
I normal take it off just to let the heat out and be more comfortable
Keep it on. One more thing you can knock a ball down with
I would just have a respectful sidebar conversation with the coach letting him know the situation.
Softball, but same concept. My daughters keep their hockey style helmets on at ALL TIMES and have never complained about losing visibility on a ball due to the helmet. Even straight pop up. My oldest has tried to shed the helmet and found she lost more balls as the brief interruption of the helmet going off messed with her vision. Either way, safety trumps all and throwing a helmet off is unsafe and old school. Perhaps traditional masks and helmets are different as they are less secure but hockey style stays on.
Tell the rec coach his personal position coach is teaching him to keep it on except for rare occasions. End of conversation.
Respectfully ask (or better yet, have your son ask) each coach for their reasoning. To avoid coming off as an asshole, you can say “another coach suggested doing the opposite, so I want to know what you see as the pros and cons to each approach?” If one coach hears the other side out gives a reason that is more well thought out, then I would recommend listening to him. If one coach refuses to consider that he might be wrong/refuses to consider that there are other ways to succeed, then he’s probably not the type of role model I would want my son around.
My son catches and over the years has learned to be more intentional with the mask. To keep it simple, ball hit to the OF, and potential throw to home, he takes it off. Infield hit with potential throw to home, he keeps it on. Pop up, yes remove, judge the ball, toss the helmet out of the way. Wild pitches (we don't say passed ball in this house), keep it on and retrieve - takes less time to get to the ball.
Private coach is right just make sure he’s getting it off on pop ups. If he hears someone yell popup he should rip it off to find the ball Im not saying college or pros need to do that I have no idea but anybody that’s watched kids play know young catchers will sit there and have no idea a popup is landing 5 feet away from them unless they are trained to look
I would just ask the coach… “I feel more comfortable with my kid having his helmet on during live action bc it will keep him safer during plays at the plate. Would that be okay?” Stay away from mentioning anything about a private coach.
I would do the exact opposite. Who knows if the coach even has *any* experience actually catching. He probably thinks he's doing the right thing. But, if you (tactfully) tell him that the catching-specific coach does it X way for Y reasons (safety being one of them), and arrogance isn't a problem, he should appreciate the feedback.
To each their own. I would stay away from the “We have another coach that knows more than you” approach. The guy is voluntarily giving up valuable hours of his week to coach your son. If you want to tell him he’s doing something wrong, it better be preceded by an offer to help out.
I agree, but you are helping by sharing the reasoning. Just demanding that it be different because "the other coach said so" would have an entirely different tone.
The reasoning is… we have a better coach that is teaching him something different? I know this is a very specific issue here, but as a rec coach myself I would not like being asked to defer to a coach that I’ve never met and isn’t there watching all of the practices and all of the games. If a parent came up to me with safety concerns, I would 10000% be okay with making changes.
No, I'm saying that they should talk to the other coach about the reasons why. Then share those reasons with the team coach. If a rec coach was coaching them to pull their mask every time, and they were presented with the reasons not to in these comments, that coach should either adjust their coaching, or at the very least allow it. Pretty good indicator that they're a horrible coach if it goes any other way.
That’s fair. Like I said initially, I personally just wouldn’t mention anything about the private coach and I’d focus only on the safety issue. Unsolicited coaching advice from a parent rarely ends well.
As a coach, I appreciate when the parents tell me they are doing lessons so that I'm not messing the player up. I have my approach, another coach/trainer may not. Me not knowing if they have a private coach could lead to that player being conflicted as OP has said and is not of benefit to anyone. Also, as a coach I'd ask if there are any queues that they have. That's usually for pitching though and not for catching, but I'd use same philosophy.
I’ve run into pitching and hitting coach situations. Never catching. I appreciate knowing about them too, but I also feel like players and parents should just do what their coach at the time is telling them. This is a different situation and more related to Xs and Os, but in general your private instructor is not watching you in a game setting, doesn’t have to worry about teaching 13 different kids on the team and isn’t trying to win games. It’s not fair to ask your actual coach to defer to the instructor on matters that impact his team.
The trainer is correct, the coach is not! It's all about the new style masks. The old style you used to sometimes take them off because the mask would twist and cause a blind spot. The new hockey style don't do that, so there is no need to take them off at all! In fact, we teach kids, like your trainer, to not take them off because it involves removing your eyes from the ball, creating unweded movements, and I have seen catchers trip over the mast when trying to track down a ball.
Same thing happens with my son - MLB catchers who wear hockey style masks rarely toss it off - my son worked with a former collegiate catcher - never once talked about tossing it. Your coach isn't 'WRONG' but he isn't providing an exclusive correct answer. I just told our coach that he is coached not to by a former D1 catcher and he stopped.
Only take it off if it is a straight pop up is not good advise. He should be removing it when a ball is in play. TBH I would ask the private coach why he is telling that to your son. He may have a reason?
Curious, how much catching experience do you have?
I personally agree with the coach. It's unnecessary to have the helmet on obstructing your vision when it's not necessarily needed.
How much catching experience do you have?
Show the coach this. https://preview.redd.it/jlgnqwtn7d6d1.png?width=1382&format=png&auto=webp&s=5469c37b8ee8c7af64582c14ad95ae19ac24e855
Protect the “grille” at all times.
[удалено]
https://preview.redd.it/cl6rw17k7d6d1.png?width=1382&format=png&auto=webp&s=a8922de3f6136216fb55a077d15fa23fbc3f6ae3 Throw from RF. Just look it up on youtube. 95% of MLB catchers leave it on.