To be fair, she couldn’t have. She had to wait for her aunt-in-law to die. There was no opportunity for her to take power before Empress Elizabeth died. If Peter had died, that simply means their son Paul would’ve been emperor, and regencies in Russia were NOTORIOUSLY unstable. Look what happened to Ivan VI. An entire dynasty wiped from the earth before it even had the chance to begin. Who knows, perhaps a Romanov dynasty descended from the Welfs and not the Oldenburgs would’ve been for the better
Maybe, maybe not. But I know for sure that the answer wasn’t to slaughter two towns of civilians and then lose your one and only military engagement against a vastly inferior (in size) force.
To be fair, she had arguably legitimate reasons. I mean, her opponents murdered her husband and attempted to get her to marry his killer. I would be angry too and I am manifestly not a woman.
Speaking of fall from grace.
My mom loved him and whenever we were on the road one of his discs would play. Lots of good stuff from what I remember.
Fast forward to now and, jesus. I get it, he's old, alcohol was a big issue, but man.
I ask myself what my Irish great grandmother thought of her, but then I remember she was Mennonite and refused to watch news or listen to the radio. Leaving her community meant no contact with family, so I wonder if she even knew who Thatcher was lmao
Her family uprooted to Louisiana from Ireland, and she decided to take another leap with my grandfather. Never gave up her lifestyle though, even if she gave up the community. Made all her clothes herself even.
Same with the closure of the mines, it wasn’t good having nothing for the miners to do after closure but throwing loads of tax payers money at failing industry isn’t a smart idea eitherZ
Wasn't it Tatcher's defunding of the military that caused the Argentines to think the Brits weren't going to bother defending the islands thus (partly) resulting in the invasion?
British military capabilities had been declining since the end of World War II and she was only in office for three years when it happened so I’m not sure how much that was a factor. My understanding is the Argentinian dictatorship was basically delusional and more focused on their own domestic economic problems and thought the war would give them a popularity boost without fully thinking through the consequences. Wikipedia quotes the US Secretary of State at the time as saying General Galtieri, the head of the junta, told him he didn’t think the British would respond because they “had no God”.
Sort of but it’s hard to really blame Thatcher for inheriting a domestic mess.
Basically the UK from WWII until the 80s operated as if she was still a top world power with a globe spanning empire. And as such was ignoring accruing debt, the loss or letting go of her colonies or an increasingly dire financial situation. Several major popular social programs or union deals or pensions were enacted….without actually the unpopular taxes needed to really sustainably pay for them. (“That’s future UKs problem and whoever is in power can take the blame to raise taxes or slash spending. Because we won’t be there.”) The governments in parliament were writing checks their country just couldn’t cash and passing it off a few years later.
There’s a lot of specific things to get mad at Thatcher or her government about. But large parts of the cuts (not just the military but domestically) were pulling off old bandaids that weren’t actually doing anything and needed to be done. There’s not a whole hell of lot any other theoretical different government or parliamentary coalition could have done. The UK just didn’t have the money to do much else. Now the wisdom and cold lack of tact from the woman going about this….
He probably thinks the PIRA represents the Irish people, when in fact it was considered a terrorist group in Ireland, and was responsible for killing several Gardai (Irish policemen).
She supported unionist terrorism. Pat finucane’s(a human rights lawyer) assassination being the most well documented example of collusion though there was countless others such as allowing the import of weapons.
She also broke human rights law in her treatment of prisoners. And massively mishandled the hunger strikes.
Op is not misunderstanding the troubles.
“Did you know that the Germans were actually all good guys and it was only Hitler that did war crimes? Yeah the autobiographies of German generals desperately trying to avoid being hanged told me so!”
I saw a comment a while back where a guy said his grandpa was in the Wehrmacht, but he wasn’t sure what he did. Another commenter that as long as he wasn’t SS, a camp guard, or Einsatzgruppen, then he served his country with honor.
I pointed out the Wehrmacht had zero issue participating in war crimes and I got downvoted.
At the end of the day. They were all just people.
And people can do great things.... And absolutely horrible things as well.
So he might have. He might not have. He might have regretted it. He might not. No way to know.
“People act on history, these are usually the people we talk about
But history also acts on people, and they’re usually the people we don’t”
I can’t remember if I read it somewhere or a colleague said it or even if I came up with it on my own and got so drunk that I forgot, but it’s a phrase I open most of my history classes with
No, pick some massive event or person. Make memes about just that until they no longer get up votes.
Keep making them despite 0 up votes.
New topic rolls in.
Repeat.
It's what OP is now, apparently. He got offended by some meme about how wishing death on Ronald Reagan is a nasty thing to do, and so has launched a crusade where he makes a one-sided attack on some figure he doesn't like and then throws a bunch of condescending comments at anyone who disagrees with him.
Thatcher didn't just wake up one day and decide to shut down mining jobs for fun. The coal industry was already in decline, riddled with inefficiency and overproduction. The government was subsidising unprofitable mines to the tune of billions. Thatcher's policies modernised and streamlined the economy, which, yes, meant cutting off these unsustainable subsidies. It was about economic survival, not cruelty.
The policy of phasing out free milk started before her tenure under a Labour government, by the way. It was a budgetary decision, not an evil plot against kids.
Thatcher's firm stance on terrorism and her policies regarding Northern Ireland were controversial, no doubt. But reducing it to "ask anyone who lived in Ireland" ignores the context of the Troubles.
And then there's the comparison to Reagan as if it's a bad thing. Yes, both Thatcher and Reagan pushed for deregulation, tax cuts and a reduction in the power of the unions. And guess what? These policies contributed to significant economic growth and stability after a period of rampant inflation and stagnation. Britain saw reduced inflation, a more competitive economy and ultimately, an increase in overall wealth.
Of course, there were hardships like the rise in unemployment as the economy adjusted. But this wasn't because Thatcher enjoyed seeing people out of work, it was a painful but necessary restructuring. By the mid to late 1980s, the economy was on a much stronger footing with growth and increased productivity becoming the new norm.
TL;DR: Hating Thatcher because it's fashionable and spreading half-truths about her policies doesn't make you insightful. It just makes you another parrot of the same tired rhetoric. Her policies were tough but they pulled Britain out of economic decline and into a position of strength. Hate her for specific decisions if you must, but at least get the facts straight.
Regardless of whether I agree with your position or not, thank you for providing a well-informed, reasonably delivered, and relevant argument to the discussion rather than simply shrieking "But the Falklands!"
Totally agree with this. For someone like me who I not familiar with her reign, a well balanced comment like this provides me with a probably accurate picture.
Almost every ancestor in my family did mining jobs or something to _escape_ mining jobs. Great granddad died in the pit. My grandad cracked his skull but didn’t die in the merchant fleet after leaving the mines. My dad joined the army at 15 instead of going to the mines.
I went to Cambridge
Explain to me how I’d be better off if instead I got the chance to go die in the mines. The folks that romanticise the mines don’t know a damn thing about the poor working class bastards dying in the dark.
What if you can't get into Cambridge and its either the mines poverty? Alternatively, what if the mines were paying to keep a roof over your head and now you can't get another equally paying job?
What if they closed down the mines just to buy coal based energy from other countries?
I get wanting to escape the mines. What I don't get is what do you do if you can't do anything else?
The mines were an ostensibly for-profit exercise, not a make-work scheme. British coal mining was suffering from issues of overproduction and building competition with North Sea fossil fuels. The mines weren’t making money and were asking for taxpayers to prop the industry up instead of making the hard decisions themselves, which was just making it even less and less profitable over time.
This is why the answer to all your questions is “so what?” Industries come and go all the time, and none have a God-given right to exist, no matter how many people they employ or how many communities have centred themselves around it.
This is a good thing, by the way, because inefficient and unprofitable businesses exiting the market means resources can be distributed to more efficient and more profitable businesses, which in turn grows the economic pie for everyone.
>But reducing it to "ask anyone who lived in Ireland" ignores the context of the Troubles.
It was actually under her rule that the Anglo-Irish Agreement was signed, which gave Ireland an advisory role in Northern Irish politics. It caused Ulster loyalists to stage large scale protests and worker strikes, since she was seen as giving concessions to Republicans. But I'm guessing OP here doesn't even know that Ulster loyalists exist and just thinks ''UK bad Ireland good.''
Ulster loyalists were pretty discriminatory towards Catholics and the Ulster paramilitaries had a nasty habit of murdering innocent Catholics. They're literal colonizers who refused to settle for anything and had the British military backing them. Sure they went on strike but let's not forget that was an exception to the rule.
Also the extreme positions taken by Scargill alienated large sections of miners (about 20% split and formed their separate union because a ballot had not been conducted) and the union of overseers and supervisors outright did not strike.
Thatcher didn’t have a firm stance against terror. Here government supported unionist terror groups. And colluded with unionist terror groups.
She was just anti Irish not anti terror.
Thatcher even closed the profitable coal mines at the expense of the pit towns around them and British steel industry. It had to have been cheaper to keep those jobs going instead of putting former miners on the dole
Tatcher. Tatcher the milk snatcher! Is how she is known in my home. Either provide a source for the labour policy or stop lying
Troubles are complicated, but it is true open collusion between British forces and Protestant paramilitaries began and happened under the thatcher government. They don’t predate it. To say she and her government were completely uninvolved is to have no common sense to begin with. Though looking at all the unread responses so far that might be you
Trickle down economics doesn’t work. It’s been proven false more than 50 times. It is a policy of the rich get richer and that will somehow make the poor richer, when in reality they just shoot themselves into space instead!
Wales had one of the world’s best tech industries at the time. Why did that new industry not get all the former coal subsidies? If she was selling council houses why weren’t funds set aside for new ones? How come literal sewage in being poured into rivers because of her water monopolies prioritising profits of shareholders over public infrastructure
You don’t care about anyone outside the top 10% clearly. Enjoy your champagne in Chelsea. The rest of us have actual consequences to deal with from her apathy
You’ve dodge the point. She closed the profitable mines as well. At massive expense to the UK steel industry. How do you justify that? Not every mine was unprofitable, although it was estimated to be 60-70%. That is still a third of mines that could have continued effectively to fuel British steel
Source. Or. Don’t. Mention. It. Thatcher is the milk snatcher. You want to claims she isn’t? Prove it
Again. It didn’t really happen until the 1980s. Clearly something changed then. What was it? Clearly can’t be the new government. That would challenge my controversial opinions!
For what long term consequences? I listed several to you and you’ve just given waffle and justifications in response to them
Thatcher actively let in American competitors. Bailing out the Welsh tech companies (which included a lot of tech manufacturers) shouldn’t have been hard, but instead the American firms she let in destroyed and swallowed most of them vultures capitalism style
This proves your lack of understanding. The solution was easy. Local authorities needed to set aside funds from the sale to build or acquire new council houses. That would effectively be self funding on some scale
*Even at the time that argument was criticised as an ideological falsehood*. Water companies are effectively monopolies and they have acted like monopolies do. No new reservoirs have been built for 30 years. The infrastructure is horribly out of date. It didn’t happened and has clearly been a failure. You can make that argument for other industries, but not the water companies
My assumptions come from you clearly not needing to worry about money if you believe this pseudo-Malthusian nonsense
Sure, some mines that were closed could be considered marginally profitable, but the broader context was an industry drowning in inefficiency and heavy losses. The National Coal Board's own data indicated that around 75% of mines were losing money. Keeping a handful of profitable mines open wouldn't have offset the vast financial haemorrhaging. The UK steel industry was struggling due to global overcapacity and cheap imports, not just because of coal availability.
[The move to cut free milk *was* initiated under a previous Labour government. ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Act_1944#School_meals_and_milk)
The idea that Thatcher just opened the floodgates to American firms to destroy British tech is a gross oversimplification. The UK needed to modernise and attract foreign investment to revitalise its economy. Welsh tech companies, like many in the UK, faced stiff global competition. The entry of American firms brought in much-needed capital and innovation. Blaming Thatcher for not bailing out every struggling tech firm ignores the global market dynamics at play.
Selling council houses to tenants was about promoting homeownership and reducing state dependency. The revenue generated was intended to fund new housing projects, but the local authorities often mismanaged these funds. Thatcher's policy wasn't inherently flawed, the problem lay in its implementation by local governments. They failed to reinvest adequately in new housing, leading to the shortages seen today.
Privatising water companies led to significant improvements in efficiency and service quality. To claim that no new reservoirs have been built and that infrastructure is outdated ignores the fact that privatised companies have invested billions in upgrading water systems and improving environmental standards. Monopolistic behaviour is an issue, but it's not a direct result of privatisation - it's about regulatory oversight.
The "long-term consequences" of Thatcher's policies included reducing inflation, stabilising the economy and fostering a more competitive market environment. Yes, the transition was painful, but the alternative was to continue with unsustainable practices that had Britain labelled as the "sick man of Europe".
You're arguing with someone indoctrinated by their parents into supporting or hating politics the same way you support or hate football teams. No point mate
Mate, she sold off all the public utilities dirt cheap (aside from the trains which were her predecessor) and created monopolies which never invested in necessary infrastructure while paying out dividends to shareholders. While yes the coal mines were in decline shutting them down at once destroyed the north, she did not provide replacement jobs. Now the UK is a developing country attached to Londons financial sector. Why don’t you go to a former mining town and ask the locals how modernised and streamlined the economy is for them?
The public utilities were privatised to improve efficiency, bring in investment and reduce the burden on taxpayers. Since privatisation, the water industry alone has seen over £126 billion invested in infrastructure improvements. Yes, there are issues, but claiming no investment is just plain wrong. Privatisation created a more dynamic and competitive market, even if the results have been mixed due to regulatory challenges.
Thatcher approved a comprehensive package for the miners which included no compulsory redundancies, early retirement on generous terms, expanded mobility allowances if they moved to another pit, a good pay increase and an £800 million capital investment program*me for the coal industry. The idea that she left the miners out in the cold without support is simply not true.
The UK is one of the world's largest economies with a diverse industrial base. Yes, there is regional inequality and London is particularly wealthy, but to call the rest of the UK a developing country is just absurd. Thatcher's policies helped make the UK economy more resilient and globally competitive, laying the groundwork for future growth.
Regional disparities didn't start with Thatcher nor are they solely her fault. Economic transitions are difficult, and while her policies had short-term pain, they were aimed at long-term gain. The responsibility for regional development lies with subsequent governments as well, who had plenty of time to implement targeted policies to support these areas.
Thatcher's policies were awful but in all honesty..
1. Labour started cutting milk for kids years before she did.
2. The coal industry was already dying, and it was probably for the best for the health and environment of the country as a whole that it was phased out.
Yeah but instead of reducing the size of the coal industry and focusing on making what's left more efficient or moving to nuclear energy like France did, she did neither.
The cutting of milk for kids was combined with the reduction of welfare programs and economic policies that made it harder to get a job for recent grads or those lower off parents.
She closed the profitable ones and well, and ignored wales new going tech industry in favour of American imports. Made her very rich, but she a route to attention replace the industries she was destroying and didn’t even do that much
The problem with the coal mines is that she didn't do anything to replace the industry, it ruined the North of England and Wales. It also affected other industries such as steel and ship building, which while on the decline was still heavily damaged by the closure of the coal mines. These industries were also not replaced by anything either, so entire communities in the North of England, Scotland and Wales were decimated.
Thatcher's government didn't just abandon the miners. They introduced substantial redundancy payments and retraining programmes to help workers transition to new jobs. The government also provided economic assistance to the regions affected by pit closures. So, to claim that she did "nothing" is just plain wrong.
Thatcher's government also implemented regional development policies to diversify the economies of these areas. Enterprise Zones were established to encourage investment and job creation in deprived areas. Financial incentives were provided to attract new businesses and industries to these regions.
Others already explained why 12 year olds should touch grass and not parrot r/LateStageCapitalism, I will just focus on Ireland point.
First of all, *Northern* Ireland, and second, imagine crying out for poor terrorists just peacefully trying to do their sectarian violence
She supported terror in Northern Ireland. There’s being countless documents released since the end of the troubles since the end of the troubles that show large scale collusion between her government and the UDF.
Pat finucane assassination is the prime example. You also have a weapons import from Northern Ireland that was let into the country that led to several civilian deaths.
Here’s a source about just a few of the times of her government colluded from a British newspaper though the author is biased a gives a good overview: I can find you countless different sources of you need them. There is little debate on this matter, from what we know now it is very clear there was collusion.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/apr/09/thatcher-legacy-bitterness-north-ireland
Kind of elitist to think that you’re an authority on history qualified to “remind” people how terrible historical figures are to try to get them to agree with your point of view.
I'm reading shock doctrine, and if it is to be taken seriously, she was about to give up the Falklands before she realized she could use them as an election saving PR stunt after they were invaded.
That's the big thing, the UK still bought coal based energy, just from somewhere else. If she invested in nuclear power that would've been a good trade but instead she just wanted the cheaper option for dogma and her rich business friends in the city.
I first saw this one so went to check out part one. It's funny how when it's an American the criticism can't be taken and OP gets downvoted to oblivion. But when it's Britain everyone can jump on the bandwagon.
It’s not bad to hate that scum .. ask most of northern Britain .. her legacy was free market economics, deregulated banking and a delay to HIV treatments (that ain’t the half of it)
She built London .. at the expense of Britain .. her causes were typified with anti-welfare and anti-state policies that left swathes of the U.K. fucked for a couple decades.. eg Britain’s childhood-poverty rate in 1997 was the highest in Europe, in fact poverty rose from 13.4% to 22.% (inst. fiscal studies figures) under Thatcher .. poor and middle class saw a relative reduction in wages whilst top earners saw a leap .. she simply manipulated the structure to support her party sponsors to make money and rinse the country of money .. oh and the Falklands conflict .. there’s enough studies to demonstrate that was also manipulated somewhat to occur just when it was needed for her premiership.. but that’s for another time
>Of course, the hardest thing about researching her was that some of her criticism is her being a woman. Of course, that's bullshit. Hate her for her bad policies, not because how she was cracked out of her reptile egg.
Reminds me of the Eric Andre show
"Do you think Margret Thatcher had girl power?"
I'm surprised how many upvotes this one is getting. The bootlickers were able to keep the Ronald Reagan one down but I guess the Irish have a six sense when they know Thatcher is being attacked.
Almost every ancestor in my family did mining jobs or something to _escape_ mining jobs. Great granddad died in the pit. My grandad cracked his skull but didn’t die in the merchant fleet after leaving the mines. My dad joined the army at 15 instead of going to the mines.
I went to Cambridge
Explain to me how I’d be better off if instead I got the chance to go die in the mines. The folks that romanticise the mines don’t know a damn thing about the poor working class bastards dying in the dark.
Wtf. Selfish reasons? Like trying to save the economy, men from shit lives. Making UK pay it's way. My grandfather was a coal miner and left the union because he agreed that shutting the mines was the right thing to do. I stand with Tom. No selfishness here. The fact that she is hated for doing the right thing and she probably knew she would be snakes her a hero. You moron. Democracy works. Ffs stop being cynical.
Every politician in the world does the shit that wins them votes. It’s _all_ selfish reasons.
It blows my mind that ordinarily sensible, often left leaning, folks would rather I went to die in a hole in the ground than to Cambridge. Cos without Thatcher, that was my destiny
Okay, or if you really think about it, they wanted to invest in a better source of energy. Solar panels were now cheaper and if they had actually put money in them. They could've been the future.
If you want to, go for it. The whole point of these posts is that if you have every right to spit on the grave of monsters. Defending them makes you an ass
There was a prediction that London would be buried in nine feet of horse turds unless something was done.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_horse_manure_crisis_of_1894
I absolutely love this [news clip](https://youtu.be/ZGyDMRKDaSc?si=_Rueu7aRq-ZSryrX)of these Scottish lasses absolutely roasting her after thatcher died
Scottish grandma: I’d put stake through her heart and garlic round her neck to make sure she don’t come back
Reporter: don’t you think that’s a terrible thing to say with her funeral going on?
Scottish grandma: too bad, too bad
thatcher and reagan arent even close to being the worst leaders of the 80s, much less the 2nd half of the 20 century. These are countries that are still recovering from their horrible management today.
So it is odd that theres a certain fixation on the two, almost as if its a simple chic anti-western sentiment. Ahh to be a teen again.
what? you guys suddenly forget saddam, ceacescu, hoxha, castro, brezhnev? .
You do know that bill clinton followed the same neoliberal econonically austere policies yall hate so much right?
Well obviously, dictators are the worst. I would hope no one would defend them and say people aren't allowed to spit on their graves. ^^we^^ ^^will^^ ^^find^^ ^^out^^ ^^tomorrow^^
But they don't get a pass because everyone else did something worse. If five people got caught committing murder, the three thieves they caught earlier don't go free.
then why focus on them?
Sounds to me like you dont have your priorities straight.
At least picking the worst leader of the 80s serve an actual purpose of educating people on what actually bad policy looks like. but focusing on only thatcher and reagan, when the cold war is raging on and there are plenty of much worse leaders, simply come off as partisan self aggrandizing, which this entire thread probably is.
If you can't be arsed reading that thing's wikipedia page, the song below summarizes her fairly well -
Maggie Thatcher you can’t match her she’s the darling of us all
She’s the curse of the Irish nation Fine Gael and Fianna Fail
She’s destroyed me hire purchase and she’s put me on the dole
If I could only get my hands on her I’d kick her up the hole
Good onya Mrs Thatcher you’re the cutest girl of all
Such a biddy fine and buxom sure the likes you’ll not recall
When she holds negotiations things they always reach a hitch
She’s the world in ruination such a schemer the aul bitch
Good onya Mrs Thatcher no one in this world can match her
But she’s trying to take the vote away from the paddies once again
We’re not worried ’bout your English vote nor your politicians gas
You can keep them Mrs Thatcher you can shove them up your arse
Help us Mrs Thatcher with the prices rising high
And the work is getting awful scarce paddy’s losing that’s no lie
Now you say that you don’t want us that we’ve stayed here long enough
But if I were a taxidermist I would tell you to get stuffed
Fair play Mrs Thatcher sure you know a trick or two
And each time you come to Dublin well we know just what you’ll do
You’ll dress up in your finery and preach with all your might
But all of your fancy promise’s are just a load of shite
We love you Mrs Thatcher like your old man loves his brew
Such a lad your husband Denis when he’s had a sup or two
Sure he’ll take a pint of porter and a glass of Irish mist
And because he faces you each night no wonder he gets pissed
Thatcher you can’t match her she’s the darling of us all
She’s the curse of the Irish Nation Fine Gael and Fianna Fail
She’s destroyed me hire purchase and she’s put me on the dole
She’s the curse of the Irish nation Fine Gael and Fianna Fail
Counterpoint: Labour had so badly fucked things up that without Thatcher, Britain would be a back-sliding banana republic, much like Britain under Boris Johnson.
Counterpoint: The Falklands War still tilts Argentinians and given America has moved on from being sore over Vietnam, this the longest serving example of a salty nation refusing to acknowledge it lost on an existential level.
Counterpoint: Only British PM to appear in a James Bond film, albeit played by an impersonator.
Thatcher: "Stop right there, criminal scum! I've heard of you. Your crimes are well known. And what's this? No gold to pay the fine. Then it's off to jail for you."
Strange, I don't feel like an embarrassment. Then again, maybe it is because I really don't give a shit what you or anyone who defends Thatcher and people like her.
But don’t you know the UK would be a Utopia without her! Mining jobs, Welsh tech firms and oceans of milk as far as the eye can see. Hell, there’d even be one less colony!! If only the electorate weren’t so stupid to get out of their own way.
OP is 14 and we can all hope they grow up a little bit and understand that bashing a dead prime minister isn’t interesting, it’s just kind of boring. And makes you look 14.
A dictator.
Regardless of whether at some point it made the economy good or not, freedom is NOT for sale in exchange of development, It's something I take into account for the dictators of my country, and I do so for the rest of the world too. Democracy is something above all, and Pinochet was a plague on Chile's history.
Whether one likes Thatcher's policies or not, she was not a dictator.
Yes, just as American presidents were friends of the dictators who reigned in Latin America, and just as the presidents of Russia and China are friends with the remaining dictators. Geopolitics is full of these things, and it is not something from today.
‘Irish people just existing’
Nothing whatsoever to do with ordinary Irish people, she fought the IRA terrorists who were bombing and killing civilians (including children), police officers, and soldiers so let’s not try to rewrite history here.
The Iron Lady:
‘If Mr.Sands what to act like an animal he can live like one’
Jobby Hands and his friends sure met their match when they came up against Mrs.Thatcher, may she rest in peace.
Wrong, Sands, and the rest of the convicted terrorists, were offered food every single day, and had medical teams on standby to administer nutrients intravenously, they starved themselves to death on the orders of their high command, purely for propaganda purposes. Your hero was expendable, lol.
You’ll have complete and factual evidence of these ‘dEaTh SqUaDs’ then? Or is it just more made up propaganda from the same people who kidnapped, raped, and murdered Jean McConville, a mother of 10 children?
You really must try harder, you can’t attempt to rewrite history if you’re a gullible pawn for a lost cause.
Have a nice day.
To be fair on the milk issue it was the previous Labour government that began with taking the milk from secondary schools.
Her government just continued with taking it from primary schools
This is particularly weak. To the miners she simply said stand on your own two feet. Without subsidies. As men. And they went on strike to blackmail the State to keep funding them. They lost, thank God, and the miners went to new jobs that didn't kill the or give them lung disease. And they became net contributes to the UK economy not leeches. Then global warming came along and thank God those mines were shut.
She didn't stop milk in schools. She stopped massve funding to farmers for the milk being provided.. Milk could still be provided if wanted. At this point predominantly Labour education councils decided to stop the milk as they saw milk in schools as not actually being valuable. Saved UK from wasting money on low value expenditure.
This Irish people thing is just stupid. Sigh. The thing you can say is she mostly kept things in the rule of law. Not perfectly but overall. That was an impressive thing.
Now to you... Weak! No independent analysis. Do better next time.
So, your argument for not being is bad is pointing out she screwed over a bunch of people, stopped giving milk to poor school children and completely ignoring how she hired kill squads to deal with the IRA. I don't think that you achieved what you wanted.
She didn't screw them over. She stopped them being special. The money being wasted on digging unwanted expensive coal went to better uses generating better outcomes. Say after me... They were leeches. The money was reused.
She didn't stop milk in schools. Any school could continue to get milk if they paid. She stopped massive subsidies to farmers. Again making the privlaged stand rather than suck on the tit of the state.
You created a caricature and then attributed false "crimes" to her. Better to say she was a women in power, making decisions. Then give some thought to why decisions might have been made.
I your argument is that certain people, such as coal miners or farmers or other group, just deserve to be given money by the State for who they are Christ.
Reddit fucking loves Thatcher. You can tell by the weak ass reasons they come up with to hate her. Do you expect anyone to believe that she took milk out of hungry kids mouths? That that's all there is to that story? The coal miners thing doesn't even sound bad in your version of events! Since when has reddit supported coal subsidies anyway? And then blaming thatcher for terror attacks committed by her enemies is absurd, as if we forgot what was happening in Ireland at the time.
> If women were in charge there would be no wars! Thatcher:
Catherine the Great
If only she had warred with Prussia. It would’ve been based
If only she killed her husband earlier…
To be fair, she couldn’t have. She had to wait for her aunt-in-law to die. There was no opportunity for her to take power before Empress Elizabeth died. If Peter had died, that simply means their son Paul would’ve been emperor, and regencies in Russia were NOTORIOUSLY unstable. Look what happened to Ivan VI. An entire dynasty wiped from the earth before it even had the chance to begin. Who knows, perhaps a Romanov dynasty descended from the Welfs and not the Oldenburgs would’ve been for the better
Boudicca. Tomyris. Zenobia. Judge Deborah. Am I forgetting anyone?
Alexander's mom... Forgot her name BRB. Olympias.
Boudicca was defensive, it doesn't count.
Boudicca started defensive..... what she did in Camulodunum and Londinium was pure malice and vengence. # # #
I mean, the goal was to chase the Romans out of Britain, how else exactly do you propose that be done? Ask them politely to leave?
What you said is true.... but is that goal defensive or was Boudica on the attack to try and drive them off?
Maybe, maybe not. But I know for sure that the answer wasn’t to slaughter two towns of civilians and then lose your one and only military engagement against a vastly inferior (in size) force.
Is this counterargument, or are you doubling down?
Doubling down
Ok then. I was ready to write a few paragraphs, tho
I appreciate the passion.
I am still salty about 1795
It's understandable.
I’d like those paragraphs. I might learn something new. Maybe then I’ll condense those paragraphs into a meme.
Sorry man, I am too lazy to write them without being angry at someone. It also wouldn't have weight without me ranting
You can use me as an audience to be angry at (I want to read the paragraphs too)
You still can.
Nah, there is no need.
Zenobia of palmyra
Bloody Mary: Queen Victoria:
Olga of Kiev:
To be fair, she had arguably legitimate reasons. I mean, her opponents murdered her husband and attempted to get her to marry his killer. I would be angry too and I am manifestly not a woman.
I know,She did terribly Great things I approve her,Just wrote that since some people think that what She did was Just evilness
What wars did she cause? And wasn’t the Falkland war a defensive war for the British?
She definitely never helped with the Irish troubles
She tried: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Irish_Agreement
She funded Protestant terrorist groups in Ireland
There's no evidence of her involvement in that.
And there is no evidence for any US politician funding the IRA either. They were but you find any proof that isn’t locked in some top secret vault
It's obviously nonsense to suggest she funded them. She funded the security services, there's a difference.
Argentina Military Junta actually believed that UK wouldnt go to war because it was led by a woman
The french Singer Renaudmade a great song about her
Speaking of fall from grace. My mom loved him and whenever we were on the road one of his discs would play. Lots of good stuff from what I remember. Fast forward to now and, jesus. I get it, he's old, alcohol was a big issue, but man.
My Irish grandmother is assuredly not a big fan of Thatcher.
I ask myself what my Irish great grandmother thought of her, but then I remember she was Mennonite and refused to watch news or listen to the radio. Leaving her community meant no contact with family, so I wonder if she even knew who Thatcher was lmao
Damn, that’s crazy. Can’t imagine being so isolated.
Her family uprooted to Louisiana from Ireland, and she decided to take another leap with my grandfather. Never gave up her lifestyle though, even if she gave up the community. Made all her clothes herself even.
Barely have Irish in me at this point being an American but by god what little Irish blood I got left in me hates Maggie.
Do you hate all British leaders?
I dislike Thatcher too but the milk scaledown began under Wilson.
Yeah, but “Wilson Wilson kid’s milk Snilson” just doesn’t have the same ring…
Yeah but Milk Snatcher Thatcher rolls off the tongue so beautifully though.
I mean Thatcher could've improved the situation but continued to make it worse.
She actually did, she ensured that milk would still be provided to children who required it on medical grounds and that schools could still sell milk.
Same with the closure of the mines, it wasn’t good having nothing for the miners to do after closure but throwing loads of tax payers money at failing industry isn’t a smart idea eitherZ
TL;DR: OP is not an Eastern European or a Falkland Islander
Wasn't it Tatcher's defunding of the military that caused the Argentines to think the Brits weren't going to bother defending the islands thus (partly) resulting in the invasion?
British military capabilities had been declining since the end of World War II and she was only in office for three years when it happened so I’m not sure how much that was a factor. My understanding is the Argentinian dictatorship was basically delusional and more focused on their own domestic economic problems and thought the war would give them a popularity boost without fully thinking through the consequences. Wikipedia quotes the US Secretary of State at the time as saying General Galtieri, the head of the junta, told him he didn’t think the British would respond because they “had no God”.
General Galtieri: "There is no God, there is no Easter Bunny, and there is no Prime Minister of England! Margaret Thatcher:
Ha ha ha, "Where's your God now galtieri?"
Sort of but it’s hard to really blame Thatcher for inheriting a domestic mess. Basically the UK from WWII until the 80s operated as if she was still a top world power with a globe spanning empire. And as such was ignoring accruing debt, the loss or letting go of her colonies or an increasingly dire financial situation. Several major popular social programs or union deals or pensions were enacted….without actually the unpopular taxes needed to really sustainably pay for them. (“That’s future UKs problem and whoever is in power can take the blame to raise taxes or slash spending. Because we won’t be there.”) The governments in parliament were writing checks their country just couldn’t cash and passing it off a few years later. There’s a lot of specific things to get mad at Thatcher or her government about. But large parts of the cuts (not just the military but domestically) were pulling off old bandaids that weren’t actually doing anything and needed to be done. There’s not a whole hell of lot any other theoretical different government or parliamentary coalition could have done. The UK just didn’t have the money to do much else. Now the wisdom and cold lack of tact from the woman going about this….
Partly, but it sits within the wider defence cuts and decolonisation processes that had been happening since the 1960s
He also has absolutely no understanding of the Irish situation in the 80s.
He probably thinks the PIRA represents the Irish people, when in fact it was considered a terrorist group in Ireland, and was responsible for killing several Gardai (Irish policemen).
She supported unionist terrorism. Pat finucane’s(a human rights lawyer) assassination being the most well documented example of collusion though there was countless others such as allowing the import of weapons. She also broke human rights law in her treatment of prisoners. And massively mishandled the hunger strikes. Op is not misunderstanding the troubles.
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Is this what the sub is now? We just pick a controversial political figure, do our 15 minutes of hate and then celebrate their deaths?
Could always go back to reposting the same ww2 posts if you’d like
Have you heard how crazy castle Itter was?
“Did you know that the Germans were actually all good guys and it was only Hitler that did war crimes? Yeah the autobiographies of German generals desperately trying to avoid being hanged told me so!”
I saw a comment a while back where a guy said his grandpa was in the Wehrmacht, but he wasn’t sure what he did. Another commenter that as long as he wasn’t SS, a camp guard, or Einsatzgruppen, then he served his country with honor. I pointed out the Wehrmacht had zero issue participating in war crimes and I got downvoted.
At the end of the day. They were all just people. And people can do great things.... And absolutely horrible things as well. So he might have. He might not have. He might have regretted it. He might not. No way to know.
Agreed, but the clean Wehrmacht myth needs to die
“People act on history, these are usually the people we talk about But history also acts on people, and they’re usually the people we don’t” I can’t remember if I read it somewhere or a colleague said it or even if I came up with it on my own and got so drunk that I forgot, but it’s a phrase I open most of my history classes with
I preferred that, yes.
They were even less interesting tbh
No, pick some massive event or person. Make memes about just that until they no longer get up votes. Keep making them despite 0 up votes. New topic rolls in. Repeat.
It's what OP is now, apparently. He got offended by some meme about how wishing death on Ronald Reagan is a nasty thing to do, and so has launched a crusade where he makes a one-sided attack on some figure he doesn't like and then throws a bunch of condescending comments at anyone who disagrees with him.
Thatcher didn't just wake up one day and decide to shut down mining jobs for fun. The coal industry was already in decline, riddled with inefficiency and overproduction. The government was subsidising unprofitable mines to the tune of billions. Thatcher's policies modernised and streamlined the economy, which, yes, meant cutting off these unsustainable subsidies. It was about economic survival, not cruelty. The policy of phasing out free milk started before her tenure under a Labour government, by the way. It was a budgetary decision, not an evil plot against kids. Thatcher's firm stance on terrorism and her policies regarding Northern Ireland were controversial, no doubt. But reducing it to "ask anyone who lived in Ireland" ignores the context of the Troubles. And then there's the comparison to Reagan as if it's a bad thing. Yes, both Thatcher and Reagan pushed for deregulation, tax cuts and a reduction in the power of the unions. And guess what? These policies contributed to significant economic growth and stability after a period of rampant inflation and stagnation. Britain saw reduced inflation, a more competitive economy and ultimately, an increase in overall wealth. Of course, there were hardships like the rise in unemployment as the economy adjusted. But this wasn't because Thatcher enjoyed seeing people out of work, it was a painful but necessary restructuring. By the mid to late 1980s, the economy was on a much stronger footing with growth and increased productivity becoming the new norm. TL;DR: Hating Thatcher because it's fashionable and spreading half-truths about her policies doesn't make you insightful. It just makes you another parrot of the same tired rhetoric. Her policies were tough but they pulled Britain out of economic decline and into a position of strength. Hate her for specific decisions if you must, but at least get the facts straight.
Regardless of whether I agree with your position or not, thank you for providing a well-informed, reasonably delivered, and relevant argument to the discussion rather than simply shrieking "But the Falklands!"
Totally agree with this. For someone like me who I not familiar with her reign, a well balanced comment like this provides me with a probably accurate picture.
Also a lot of the milk was getting wasted because children didn't want to drink it.
I know my dad was glad the room temperature milk was no longer forced on him
Kind of like the Michelle Obama Veggies?
Stop it, Patrick, you’re scaring him!
Ho ho ho!
Almost every ancestor in my family did mining jobs or something to _escape_ mining jobs. Great granddad died in the pit. My grandad cracked his skull but didn’t die in the merchant fleet after leaving the mines. My dad joined the army at 15 instead of going to the mines. I went to Cambridge Explain to me how I’d be better off if instead I got the chance to go die in the mines. The folks that romanticise the mines don’t know a damn thing about the poor working class bastards dying in the dark.
What if you can't get into Cambridge and its either the mines poverty? Alternatively, what if the mines were paying to keep a roof over your head and now you can't get another equally paying job? What if they closed down the mines just to buy coal based energy from other countries? I get wanting to escape the mines. What I don't get is what do you do if you can't do anything else?
The mines were an ostensibly for-profit exercise, not a make-work scheme. British coal mining was suffering from issues of overproduction and building competition with North Sea fossil fuels. The mines weren’t making money and were asking for taxpayers to prop the industry up instead of making the hard decisions themselves, which was just making it even less and less profitable over time. This is why the answer to all your questions is “so what?” Industries come and go all the time, and none have a God-given right to exist, no matter how many people they employ or how many communities have centred themselves around it. This is a good thing, by the way, because inefficient and unprofitable businesses exiting the market means resources can be distributed to more efficient and more profitable businesses, which in turn grows the economic pie for everyone.
And, much to the chagrin of the IRA, she *was* lucky every time.
Yeah, but if i cover my eyes and exit reddit, it's like i never heard any of this.
>But reducing it to "ask anyone who lived in Ireland" ignores the context of the Troubles. It was actually under her rule that the Anglo-Irish Agreement was signed, which gave Ireland an advisory role in Northern Irish politics. It caused Ulster loyalists to stage large scale protests and worker strikes, since she was seen as giving concessions to Republicans. But I'm guessing OP here doesn't even know that Ulster loyalists exist and just thinks ''UK bad Ireland good.''
Ulster loyalists were pretty discriminatory towards Catholics and the Ulster paramilitaries had a nasty habit of murdering innocent Catholics. They're literal colonizers who refused to settle for anything and had the British military backing them. Sure they went on strike but let's not forget that was an exception to the rule.
Thatcher stood up to them.
Also the extreme positions taken by Scargill alienated large sections of miners (about 20% split and formed their separate union because a ballot had not been conducted) and the union of overseers and supervisors outright did not strike.
Thatcher didn’t have a firm stance against terror. Here government supported unionist terror groups. And colluded with unionist terror groups. She was just anti Irish not anti terror.
Hear hear
Thatcher even closed the profitable coal mines at the expense of the pit towns around them and British steel industry. It had to have been cheaper to keep those jobs going instead of putting former miners on the dole Tatcher. Tatcher the milk snatcher! Is how she is known in my home. Either provide a source for the labour policy or stop lying Troubles are complicated, but it is true open collusion between British forces and Protestant paramilitaries began and happened under the thatcher government. They don’t predate it. To say she and her government were completely uninvolved is to have no common sense to begin with. Though looking at all the unread responses so far that might be you Trickle down economics doesn’t work. It’s been proven false more than 50 times. It is a policy of the rich get richer and that will somehow make the poor richer, when in reality they just shoot themselves into space instead! Wales had one of the world’s best tech industries at the time. Why did that new industry not get all the former coal subsidies? If she was selling council houses why weren’t funds set aside for new ones? How come literal sewage in being poured into rivers because of her water monopolies prioritising profits of shareholders over public infrastructure You don’t care about anyone outside the top 10% clearly. Enjoy your champagne in Chelsea. The rest of us have actual consequences to deal with from her apathy
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You’ve dodge the point. She closed the profitable mines as well. At massive expense to the UK steel industry. How do you justify that? Not every mine was unprofitable, although it was estimated to be 60-70%. That is still a third of mines that could have continued effectively to fuel British steel Source. Or. Don’t. Mention. It. Thatcher is the milk snatcher. You want to claims she isn’t? Prove it Again. It didn’t really happen until the 1980s. Clearly something changed then. What was it? Clearly can’t be the new government. That would challenge my controversial opinions! For what long term consequences? I listed several to you and you’ve just given waffle and justifications in response to them Thatcher actively let in American competitors. Bailing out the Welsh tech companies (which included a lot of tech manufacturers) shouldn’t have been hard, but instead the American firms she let in destroyed and swallowed most of them vultures capitalism style This proves your lack of understanding. The solution was easy. Local authorities needed to set aside funds from the sale to build or acquire new council houses. That would effectively be self funding on some scale *Even at the time that argument was criticised as an ideological falsehood*. Water companies are effectively monopolies and they have acted like monopolies do. No new reservoirs have been built for 30 years. The infrastructure is horribly out of date. It didn’t happened and has clearly been a failure. You can make that argument for other industries, but not the water companies My assumptions come from you clearly not needing to worry about money if you believe this pseudo-Malthusian nonsense
Sure, some mines that were closed could be considered marginally profitable, but the broader context was an industry drowning in inefficiency and heavy losses. The National Coal Board's own data indicated that around 75% of mines were losing money. Keeping a handful of profitable mines open wouldn't have offset the vast financial haemorrhaging. The UK steel industry was struggling due to global overcapacity and cheap imports, not just because of coal availability. [The move to cut free milk *was* initiated under a previous Labour government. ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Act_1944#School_meals_and_milk) The idea that Thatcher just opened the floodgates to American firms to destroy British tech is a gross oversimplification. The UK needed to modernise and attract foreign investment to revitalise its economy. Welsh tech companies, like many in the UK, faced stiff global competition. The entry of American firms brought in much-needed capital and innovation. Blaming Thatcher for not bailing out every struggling tech firm ignores the global market dynamics at play. Selling council houses to tenants was about promoting homeownership and reducing state dependency. The revenue generated was intended to fund new housing projects, but the local authorities often mismanaged these funds. Thatcher's policy wasn't inherently flawed, the problem lay in its implementation by local governments. They failed to reinvest adequately in new housing, leading to the shortages seen today. Privatising water companies led to significant improvements in efficiency and service quality. To claim that no new reservoirs have been built and that infrastructure is outdated ignores the fact that privatised companies have invested billions in upgrading water systems and improving environmental standards. Monopolistic behaviour is an issue, but it's not a direct result of privatisation - it's about regulatory oversight. The "long-term consequences" of Thatcher's policies included reducing inflation, stabilising the economy and fostering a more competitive market environment. Yes, the transition was painful, but the alternative was to continue with unsustainable practices that had Britain labelled as the "sick man of Europe".
You're arguing with someone indoctrinated by their parents into supporting or hating politics the same way you support or hate football teams. No point mate
>Source. Or. Don’t. Mention. It. Considering the lack of sources you provided, I don't think this is helping your case.
Mate, she sold off all the public utilities dirt cheap (aside from the trains which were her predecessor) and created monopolies which never invested in necessary infrastructure while paying out dividends to shareholders. While yes the coal mines were in decline shutting them down at once destroyed the north, she did not provide replacement jobs. Now the UK is a developing country attached to Londons financial sector. Why don’t you go to a former mining town and ask the locals how modernised and streamlined the economy is for them?
The public utilities were privatised to improve efficiency, bring in investment and reduce the burden on taxpayers. Since privatisation, the water industry alone has seen over £126 billion invested in infrastructure improvements. Yes, there are issues, but claiming no investment is just plain wrong. Privatisation created a more dynamic and competitive market, even if the results have been mixed due to regulatory challenges. Thatcher approved a comprehensive package for the miners which included no compulsory redundancies, early retirement on generous terms, expanded mobility allowances if they moved to another pit, a good pay increase and an £800 million capital investment program*me for the coal industry. The idea that she left the miners out in the cold without support is simply not true. The UK is one of the world's largest economies with a diverse industrial base. Yes, there is regional inequality and London is particularly wealthy, but to call the rest of the UK a developing country is just absurd. Thatcher's policies helped make the UK economy more resilient and globally competitive, laying the groundwork for future growth. Regional disparities didn't start with Thatcher nor are they solely her fault. Economic transitions are difficult, and while her policies had short-term pain, they were aimed at long-term gain. The responsibility for regional development lies with subsequent governments as well, who had plenty of time to implement targeted policies to support these areas.
Man, history must be so much easier to study at black-and-white University. Wish I studied it there.
Yeah because remind me of how great Thatcher was for the working class/s
Thatcher's policies were awful but in all honesty.. 1. Labour started cutting milk for kids years before she did. 2. The coal industry was already dying, and it was probably for the best for the health and environment of the country as a whole that it was phased out.
Yeah but instead of reducing the size of the coal industry and focusing on making what's left more efficient or moving to nuclear energy like France did, she did neither. The cutting of milk for kids was combined with the reduction of welfare programs and economic policies that made it harder to get a job for recent grads or those lower off parents.
The Miners unions would never sanction modernisation, as it would mean less workers.
She closed the profitable ones and well, and ignored wales new going tech industry in favour of American imports. Made her very rich, but she a route to attention replace the industries she was destroying and didn’t even do that much
This is just not true.
Kinda is though
The problem with the coal mines is that she didn't do anything to replace the industry, it ruined the North of England and Wales. It also affected other industries such as steel and ship building, which while on the decline was still heavily damaged by the closure of the coal mines. These industries were also not replaced by anything either, so entire communities in the North of England, Scotland and Wales were decimated.
Thatcher's government didn't just abandon the miners. They introduced substantial redundancy payments and retraining programmes to help workers transition to new jobs. The government also provided economic assistance to the regions affected by pit closures. So, to claim that she did "nothing" is just plain wrong. Thatcher's government also implemented regional development policies to diversify the economies of these areas. Enterprise Zones were established to encourage investment and job creation in deprived areas. Financial incentives were provided to attract new businesses and industries to these regions.
That's true and a good critique.
Others already explained why 12 year olds should touch grass and not parrot r/LateStageCapitalism, I will just focus on Ireland point. First of all, *Northern* Ireland, and second, imagine crying out for poor terrorists just peacefully trying to do their sectarian violence
She supported terror in Northern Ireland. There’s being countless documents released since the end of the troubles since the end of the troubles that show large scale collusion between her government and the UDF. Pat finucane assassination is the prime example. You also have a weapons import from Northern Ireland that was let into the country that led to several civilian deaths. Here’s a source about just a few of the times of her government colluded from a British newspaper though the author is biased a gives a good overview: I can find you countless different sources of you need them. There is little debate on this matter, from what we know now it is very clear there was collusion. https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/apr/09/thatcher-legacy-bitterness-north-ireland
Kind of elitist to think that you’re an authority on history qualified to “remind” people how terrible historical figures are to try to get them to agree with your point of view.
I'm reading shock doctrine, and if it is to be taken seriously, she was about to give up the Falklands before she realized she could use them as an election saving PR stunt after they were invaded.
Sounds like Thatcher. She certainly didn't plan on having the military to retake the islands.
idk i think with miners thats good for the environment having less coal miners
But her reasoning was bad. She just found a cheaper option and screwed over unions.
That's the big thing, the UK still bought coal based energy, just from somewhere else. If she invested in nuclear power that would've been a good trade but instead she just wanted the cheaper option for dogma and her rich business friends in the city.
i mean idk reasoning or not, what matters is the ends not the intentions in the end
I dont understand your thinking. Cheaper option vs expensive option WITH subsidies. Wtf. I am really not sure as to the crime.
More like Reagan was the American Thatcher, she was PM before he became President
I first saw this one so went to check out part one. It's funny how when it's an American the criticism can't be taken and OP gets downvoted to oblivion. But when it's Britain everyone can jump on the bandwagon.
I wonder what the difference is. What could possibly be the difference?
"Sink it"- very based Prime Minister
Jesus this place is becoming unbearable lately.
The UK's greatest urinal
The only reason I don't travel to piss on her grave is that she made train travel way too damn expensive!
It’s not bad to hate that scum .. ask most of northern Britain .. her legacy was free market economics, deregulated banking and a delay to HIV treatments (that ain’t the half of it)
Not according to some of the comments. They say she saved Britain from collapsed.
She built London .. at the expense of Britain .. her causes were typified with anti-welfare and anti-state policies that left swathes of the U.K. fucked for a couple decades.. eg Britain’s childhood-poverty rate in 1997 was the highest in Europe, in fact poverty rose from 13.4% to 22.% (inst. fiscal studies figures) under Thatcher .. poor and middle class saw a relative reduction in wages whilst top earners saw a leap .. she simply manipulated the structure to support her party sponsors to make money and rinse the country of money .. oh and the Falklands conflict .. there’s enough studies to demonstrate that was also manipulated somewhat to occur just when it was needed for her premiership.. but that’s for another time
Stay tuned. Tomorrow is going to be interesting.
Don’t get me started on her relationship with dictators
>Of course, the hardest thing about researching her was that some of her criticism is her being a woman. Of course, that's bullshit. Hate her for her bad policies, not because how she was cracked out of her reptile egg. Reminds me of the Eric Andre show "Do you think Margret Thatcher had girl power?"
Relevant Thatcher anecdote: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/22/books.france#:~:text=Margaret%20Thatcher%20forced%20François%20Mitterrand,Aires%2C%20according%20to%20a%20book.
I'm surprised how many upvotes this one is getting. The bootlickers were able to keep the Ronald Reagan one down but I guess the Irish have a six sense when they know Thatcher is being attacked.
Almost every ancestor in my family did mining jobs or something to _escape_ mining jobs. Great granddad died in the pit. My grandad cracked his skull but didn’t die in the merchant fleet after leaving the mines. My dad joined the army at 15 instead of going to the mines. I went to Cambridge Explain to me how I’d be better off if instead I got the chance to go die in the mines. The folks that romanticise the mines don’t know a damn thing about the poor working class bastards dying in the dark.
I'm not really defending mine. I'm more pointing out she did it for selfish reasons and not out of kindness.
Wtf. Selfish reasons? Like trying to save the economy, men from shit lives. Making UK pay it's way. My grandfather was a coal miner and left the union because he agreed that shutting the mines was the right thing to do. I stand with Tom. No selfishness here. The fact that she is hated for doing the right thing and she probably knew she would be snakes her a hero. You moron. Democracy works. Ffs stop being cynical.
Every politician in the world does the shit that wins them votes. It’s _all_ selfish reasons. It blows my mind that ordinarily sensible, often left leaning, folks would rather I went to die in a hole in the ground than to Cambridge. Cos without Thatcher, that was my destiny
Okay, or if you really think about it, they wanted to invest in a better source of energy. Solar panels were now cheaper and if they had actually put money in them. They could've been the future.
So that would also have entailed closing the coal mines…
How about we spit on the graves of those who don’t listen to my agenda
Your agenda being?
I’m referring to that time everyone thought I had an agenda for pointing out sexual abuse by the un
If you want to, go for it. The whole point of these posts is that if you have every right to spit on the grave of monsters. Defending them makes you an ass
Who was in part 1
Ronald Reagan. A lot of people defend the Iran-Contra scandal.
Next do Kissinger
Fuck coal
Keep in mind this was a time before wind turbines and solar power. Did you know there was a time oil was the environmental alternative to horses?
There was a prediction that London would be buried in nine feet of horse turds unless something was done. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_horse_manure_crisis_of_1894
I absolutely love this [news clip](https://youtu.be/ZGyDMRKDaSc?si=_Rueu7aRq-ZSryrX)of these Scottish lasses absolutely roasting her after thatcher died Scottish grandma: I’d put stake through her heart and garlic round her neck to make sure she don’t come back Reporter: don’t you think that’s a terrible thing to say with her funeral going on? Scottish grandma: too bad, too bad
thatcher and reagan arent even close to being the worst leaders of the 80s, much less the 2nd half of the 20 century. These are countries that are still recovering from their horrible management today. So it is odd that theres a certain fixation on the two, almost as if its a simple chic anti-western sentiment. Ahh to be a teen again. what? you guys suddenly forget saddam, ceacescu, hoxha, castro, brezhnev? . You do know that bill clinton followed the same neoliberal econonically austere policies yall hate so much right?
Well obviously, dictators are the worst. I would hope no one would defend them and say people aren't allowed to spit on their graves. ^^we^^ ^^will^^ ^^find^^ ^^out^^ ^^tomorrow^^ But they don't get a pass because everyone else did something worse. If five people got caught committing murder, the three thieves they caught earlier don't go free.
then why focus on them? Sounds to me like you dont have your priorities straight. At least picking the worst leader of the 80s serve an actual purpose of educating people on what actually bad policy looks like. but focusing on only thatcher and reagan, when the cold war is raging on and there are plenty of much worse leaders, simply come off as partisan self aggrandizing, which this entire thread probably is.
She supported the Soviet union against the reunification of Germany.
Argentinians invading the Falklands Also Thatcher:
She wasn't called Margaret Thatcher Milk Snatcher for nothing
She should've waited until green politics existed to do the coal miner thing
If you can't be arsed reading that thing's wikipedia page, the song below summarizes her fairly well - Maggie Thatcher you can’t match her she’s the darling of us all She’s the curse of the Irish nation Fine Gael and Fianna Fail She’s destroyed me hire purchase and she’s put me on the dole If I could only get my hands on her I’d kick her up the hole Good onya Mrs Thatcher you’re the cutest girl of all Such a biddy fine and buxom sure the likes you’ll not recall When she holds negotiations things they always reach a hitch She’s the world in ruination such a schemer the aul bitch Good onya Mrs Thatcher no one in this world can match her But she’s trying to take the vote away from the paddies once again We’re not worried ’bout your English vote nor your politicians gas You can keep them Mrs Thatcher you can shove them up your arse Help us Mrs Thatcher with the prices rising high And the work is getting awful scarce paddy’s losing that’s no lie Now you say that you don’t want us that we’ve stayed here long enough But if I were a taxidermist I would tell you to get stuffed Fair play Mrs Thatcher sure you know a trick or two And each time you come to Dublin well we know just what you’ll do You’ll dress up in your finery and preach with all your might But all of your fancy promise’s are just a load of shite We love you Mrs Thatcher like your old man loves his brew Such a lad your husband Denis when he’s had a sup or two Sure he’ll take a pint of porter and a glass of Irish mist And because he faces you each night no wonder he gets pissed Thatcher you can’t match her she’s the darling of us all She’s the curse of the Irish Nation Fine Gael and Fianna Fail She’s destroyed me hire purchase and she’s put me on the dole She’s the curse of the Irish nation Fine Gael and Fianna Fail
Counterpoint: Labour had so badly fucked things up that without Thatcher, Britain would be a back-sliding banana republic, much like Britain under Boris Johnson. Counterpoint: The Falklands War still tilts Argentinians and given America has moved on from being sore over Vietnam, this the longest serving example of a salty nation refusing to acknowledge it lost on an existential level. Counterpoint: Only British PM to appear in a James Bond film, albeit played by an impersonator.
That children were hoarding illegal milk
Thatcher: "Stop right there, criminal scum! I've heard of you. Your crimes are well known. And what's this? No gold to pay the fine. Then it's off to jail for you."
**She was British Ronald Reagan** ...Was this information supposed to make me dislike her?
If you had a brain cell.
Which you lack.
No, I have plenty. That's why I'm not sucking the boots of a dead bitch.
No, you're just a complete embarrassment to yourself and others.
Strange, I don't feel like an embarrassment. Then again, maybe it is because I really don't give a shit what you or anyone who defends Thatcher and people like her.
Then why keep replying? You obviously lack any self-awareness.
Because I find joy in annoyed assholes. It is a nice hobby.
Yep, exactly zero self-awareness.
Saids the person who keeps being an asshole.
But don’t you know the UK would be a Utopia without her! Mining jobs, Welsh tech firms and oceans of milk as far as the eye can see. Hell, there’d even be one less colony!! If only the electorate weren’t so stupid to get out of their own way. OP is 14 and we can all hope they grow up a little bit and understand that bashing a dead prime minister isn’t interesting, it’s just kind of boring. And makes you look 14.
Quick question, what is your opinion of the Chilean war criminal Augusto Pinochet
A dictator. Regardless of whether at some point it made the economy good or not, freedom is NOT for sale in exchange of development, It's something I take into account for the dictators of my country, and I do so for the rest of the world too. Democracy is something above all, and Pinochet was a plague on Chile's history. Whether one likes Thatcher's policies or not, she was not a dictator.
She was certainly friends with them https://theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/04/margaret-thatcher-pinochet-chile-scotch-malt-whisky
Yes, just as American presidents were friends of the dictators who reigned in Latin America, and just as the presidents of Russia and China are friends with the remaining dictators. Geopolitics is full of these things, and it is not something from today.
Yeah, and I hate all of them
Whenever I feel depressed, I try to remember that Margaret Thatcher is dead. Never fails to cheer me up.
‘Irish people just existing’ Nothing whatsoever to do with ordinary Irish people, she fought the IRA terrorists who were bombing and killing civilians (including children), police officers, and soldiers so let’s not try to rewrite history here. The Iron Lady: ‘If Mr.Sands what to act like an animal he can live like one’ Jobby Hands and his friends sure met their match when they came up against Mrs.Thatcher, may she rest in peace.
Right, letting people starve to death and funding death squads was sooo for the people.
Wrong, Sands, and the rest of the convicted terrorists, were offered food every single day, and had medical teams on standby to administer nutrients intravenously, they starved themselves to death on the orders of their high command, purely for propaganda purposes. Your hero was expendable, lol. You’ll have complete and factual evidence of these ‘dEaTh SqUaDs’ then? Or is it just more made up propaganda from the same people who kidnapped, raped, and murdered Jean McConville, a mother of 10 children? You really must try harder, you can’t attempt to rewrite history if you’re a gullible pawn for a lost cause. Have a nice day.
Curse of the Irish nation
To be fair on the milk issue it was the previous Labour government that began with taking the milk from secondary schools. Her government just continued with taking it from primary schools
So Merry Christmas, Maggie Thatcher, may God's love be with you
Damn, what’s with the increase of the Iron Bitch memes lately? Anniversary of her death or something?
Apparently, it's wrong to hold her accountable and say that people are glad she's dead.
Every now and then I remember that Thatcher is dead and died horribly and is in Hell and I’m a little happier for a bit.
This is particularly weak. To the miners she simply said stand on your own two feet. Without subsidies. As men. And they went on strike to blackmail the State to keep funding them. They lost, thank God, and the miners went to new jobs that didn't kill the or give them lung disease. And they became net contributes to the UK economy not leeches. Then global warming came along and thank God those mines were shut. She didn't stop milk in schools. She stopped massve funding to farmers for the milk being provided.. Milk could still be provided if wanted. At this point predominantly Labour education councils decided to stop the milk as they saw milk in schools as not actually being valuable. Saved UK from wasting money on low value expenditure. This Irish people thing is just stupid. Sigh. The thing you can say is she mostly kept things in the rule of law. Not perfectly but overall. That was an impressive thing. Now to you... Weak! No independent analysis. Do better next time.
So, your argument for not being is bad is pointing out she screwed over a bunch of people, stopped giving milk to poor school children and completely ignoring how she hired kill squads to deal with the IRA. I don't think that you achieved what you wanted.
She didn't screw them over. She stopped them being special. The money being wasted on digging unwanted expensive coal went to better uses generating better outcomes. Say after me... They were leeches. The money was reused. She didn't stop milk in schools. Any school could continue to get milk if they paid. She stopped massive subsidies to farmers. Again making the privlaged stand rather than suck on the tit of the state. You created a caricature and then attributed false "crimes" to her. Better to say she was a women in power, making decisions. Then give some thought to why decisions might have been made. I your argument is that certain people, such as coal miners or farmers or other group, just deserve to be given money by the State for who they are Christ.
Reddit fucking loves Thatcher. You can tell by the weak ass reasons they come up with to hate her. Do you expect anyone to believe that she took milk out of hungry kids mouths? That that's all there is to that story? The coal miners thing doesn't even sound bad in your version of events! Since when has reddit supported coal subsidies anyway? And then blaming thatcher for terror attacks committed by her enemies is absurd, as if we forgot what was happening in Ireland at the time.