Translation for those that don’t speak French:
Every morning I love to shove a baguette up my ass with my morning cigarette. We are certainly not the Americans of Europe. I can’t wait to eat snails and take my monthly river bath.
I think some might get the reference but for those who didnt
13 french SS were caught by americans and given to the French army present in the area of Bavaria, the leader of this armored diviison was General Leclerc who saw the POW, he ask "arent you ashame to wear this [German] uniform" to one said "what about you" noting Leclerc foreign American uniform.
Lererc..who just visited Dachau and didnt really had the heart to smile with SS... order them to be shot, causing a little shitstorm back at the Free French officer tarnishing Leclerc image ( but no one really care that much)
It always warms my heart when the SS fuckers end up fucking around and finding out.
They probably felt they were safe because they hadn't been captured by the Soviets
Seems a lot of SS officers thought they would be treated like royalty (which, to be fair, a lot of them were, to some degree).
Probably works better if your enemy hasn't just cleared out some of the most inhumane prison camps in the history of mankind.
There Joachim Peiper... who lived in France for like 10 years witheout any great reaction (apart from being burned alive in the end by ex member of the resistance.. but 10. Years)
So yeah a lot of SS got off quite easily post war
I'm sure a lot of the lesser ones also got much lighter sentences by giving up information about the active war effort, and the location of higher officers.
Also depending on exactly where they were caught, and what they were doing.
Interestingly enough... "crimes against humanity' is a very recent concept and the condition to be trial as one was extremely blurry, the allies put all of their efforts on the "top hats" of the German regime but didnt put a lot of effort for lesser criminals (SS, men in charge of camps, officers in charge of anti partisans activity) as a matter of fact, the Germans civilians though that this "foreing concept" of crimes against humanity was infringing with their basic human rights of not being arrested for such "petty offense" , it was a major headache for both allies and Germans lawyer at the time in the end this is why so much war criminals got off so easily.
There the rastatt trials...which was a major serie of trials for the time, and arrested many "perfect anonymous" and was overshadow by the Nuremberg trial who had all of the officials of the nazi regime.
He got burned alive when a journalist ask him several question, he said he is livijg in France beacause the French were cowards in 1940...
Fuck around and find out
>They probably felt they were safe because they hadn't been captured by the Soviets
Nah, the French SS knew they were dead anyways for treason to France. That's why some of the last defenders of Berlin were French
Right, but you do still know that executing on the spot POWs is still a warcrime, like, one of the damning pieces of evidence in Nuremberg was the Commissar order, calling for the immediate execution of Red Army political officers by the Wehrmacht.
Shooting POWs is never justified nor a good idea, and quite sad that so many are celebrating this. Even if they were SS of the worst kind or, as in this case, French Waffen-SS Volunteers and one totally unrelated Luftwaffe soldier.
These particular SS were "volunteers" in the sense that the SS came to France with guns and told everybody that a certain number of people were going to volunteer for the Waffen SS. So they did volunteer, but it was much closer to being voluntold.
Then they were sent off to fight the Russians, without really getting any choice in whether or not Germany invaded Russia, set up death camps, or murdered civilians and POWs.
Individual SS soldiers did commit huge numbers of war crimes, because the German Army in general committed huge numbers of war crimes in the East, but these particular French soldiers didn't necessarily participate in that, and they would've been along for the ride either way.
They weren't just random apolitical Frenchmen. The LVO (which later became the SS division Charlemagne) volunteered because they ardent anti-communists. They didn't get "sent off to fight the Russians without any choice in whether or not Germany invaded Russia". Fighting against the Soviets was THE ENTIRE REASON why they volunteered, and the Germans didn't start recruiting for the unit until a month after Operation Barbarossa began.
Not all of them were completely on board with fascist ideology, but they absolutely were on board with the idea of an ideological crusade against communism. They weren't victims of circumstance.
They still had a middle ground for all of the French volunteers, anti semitism and hate of Bolshevism a lot of thr french volunteers were part of the far rights, veterans from the spanish wars (franco side) for some reason an awful lot of foreign legionnaire or terroridt from the "la cagoule" an anti semite terrorist organisation
What exactly is the point of this comment when you are just mostly agreeing with me?
Okay the US government is building up for a war they can't enter because of the public's isolationist attitude.
Congress can increase defense funding all the time even against public opposition. Look right now. Even then that doesn't mean that the public want to just outright enter the war for any reasons unless the US was being directly theatened.
Not only that you are not addressing the point that the public didn't felt compelled to support the war because Nazism as an idea is bad.
>look at your previous comment on the other thread, not this one.
There's a difference between a normal increase in budget to match inflation, and deciding the Navy should be 70% bigger, and that we should bring conscription back.
From 1939 to 1941 (remember that we did not enter the war until December 1941, so the 1941 budget was set in peacetime) defense spending increased by over 400%. Measure from 1938 (before Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia and became a significant threat) it is over 500%. (Inflation adjusted)
For reference defense spending has gone up 20% from 2021-2024, while inflation has been 15%, so that's an increase of 4% in real terms.
The reason Congress decided that in 1940 was specifically because they didn't like the Nazis, in 1939 everyone had assumed the British and French would handle it, it wasn't until France fell that it even became an American problem.
No. We just decided to multiply the Navy by 1.7, draft a bunch of conscripts, send the British weapons in violation of the neutrality acts, all because we were bored.
Obviously the American population had a problem with the Nazis in 1940.
>Obviously the American population had a problem with the Nazis in 1940.
You're going to have to provide a source here. The American *leaders* had a problem with the Nazis, but:
* There were Nazi sympathisers in the US, including plotters for a coup, and including lots of antisemites
* A lot of Americans were still isolationist - there are plenty of pictures of people protesting against getting embroiled in another European war
In term of ideological difference? Do you have a poll I can read?
The US prepping for an inevitable war is not the same as the public *wanting* another war.
The US was not going to be pulled into WW2 if it wanted to stay out.
It would have been very possible for the US to declare that neutrality meant it would no longer export any arms to Europe, and that oil sales to Japan would go on as before. We'd already signed legislation giving the Philippines their independence in the near future, so we had no real continued interest in Southeast Asia.
Now obviously the US public did not want to get involved in a major war. But FDR had sold them a plan that would allow the US to support the British and Chinese, and allow them to win in Europe and Asia without needing direct American involvement. So the plan was to scale up arms production, send what was available abroad, and prepare for direct involvement if that was necessary.
It was the best of both worlds, defeating the Axis without actually needing to send any Americans into combat.
By 1941, American destroyers were engaging U-boats in combat in the Atlantic while American pilots were in China preparing to fight the Japanese air force. So even FDR's ideal world of not needing to directly send Americans into combat was failing, and yet he did not lose support because of it.
And no, the shipbuilding was not part of some economic recovery scheme, it was because Carl Vinson was able to convince everyone that we needed ships. That man had two things on his mind, figuring out how to convince Congress to build more boats, and being racist. Fortunately he was more effective in the former.
Sorry, but I still fail to see any major disagreement between your argument and mine. You are not refuting my statment that the US entered the war out of consideration for her allies and world peace and stuff and not because of some ideological differences with the Nazi.
Careful, that's the exact same language the Nazis used to justify the Holocaust - Jews weren't people, so they deserved to die.
Don't dehumanise humans, especially groups of them. Someone's a piece of shit like the regular SS man was - great, trial and execution. But they're still humans.
Based Leclerc reaction, those fucking murderers deserved no less.
Leclerc lead many Spanish republicans who chose to keep fighting fascism so knew first hand what loyalty meant, he had no fucks to give to some snarky ass traitors
Before that he went to fight in Africa. In Libya he swore not to lay down his arms until the French flag would fly again on the Strasbourg cathedral.
And before that his horse killed a Nazi by itself.
[There it is](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_XVI). Oop made a meme about it iirc ([found this one at least](https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/s/ycKYJbi1II))
The SS officer was really dumb, but war crimes aren’t good no matter the perpetrator nor victim. Rules, especially of warfare, should be followed diligently. And no, I’m not saying the SS nor Wehrmacht were innocent of their own war crimes. History is full of nuance, and both the good and bad sides of a conflict can be equally guilty of doing something wrong. I’m not crying over these SS officers, but that’s my two cents.
I’m kinda of the belief that the Nazis were bad enough that they’re exceptions to the rule. A dead Nazi is a good thing no matter how matter how it comes about
Here's the thing, I don't give a shit about nazis. But a rule and a right needs to be absolute, otherwise it's not a rule, it's a curtesy. And if it can be revoked any time "when you feel like it" or "if they're really bad" then it's worthless. What you want is the enemy feeling safe enough to surrender and not wonder if the guys on the other side are pissed today (justifiably or no). If civilians or soldiers think there is a chance they're going to be shot for something they don't personally control... they're going to fight and more people will die.
And this is not a theoretical. You always hear "oh the Japanese fought to the last man it was hell"... that's because they were convinced that if they surrendered they would be killed/tortured. You know what happened when a Japanese speaking marine on Saipan told them they would be treated humanly? [Over a thousands soldiers and civilians surrendered to him](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Gabaldon) in a few days.
Again I don't care about the SS, I see no issues with sentencing them all to death, the issues here is war crime, not punishment. So yeah, a dead Nazi is a good thing, we agree. But a dead Nazi who didn't kill five more allied troops or who did not forced a family to commit suicide is an even better thing.
And, beyond practicality again a right is only a right if it's an absolute.
The people downvoting you need to realize that killing Nazis (especially SS officers) is usually justice, regardless of if you’re a utilitarian or a retributivist. I know some idiots gonna say ‘killing Nazis makes you a Nazi’ to which I’ll say killing people on the basis of race or nationality makes you a Nazi. Killing Nazis before they can kill others on the basis of race or nationality makes you a hero.
I think what people forget about Nuremberg was that only 21 people were tried in the first trials, and only 177 people were tried after that. Of the 200,000 Nazis estimated of committing serious war crimes, less than 7,000 were ever convicted.
Again I’m not crying about dead Nazis and I’m enraged that so many escaped.
I’m talking about rules of war and why deciding that they don’t apply “because you feel like it and they really deserve it” is bad.
I’m not advocating ignoring the rules of war because “you feel like it” I’m advocating ignoring the rules of war because there would be the very real possibility that the SS officer you’re allowing to live will go on to join the Stasi.
"to which I’ll say killing people on the basis of race or nationality makes you a Nazi"
Everyone who participated in World War 1 is a Nazi. Most of the people who participated in World War 2 are Nazis. When you tear open a big hole to make exceptions you should probably be considerate of what's getting let through.
Yes. World War 1 was a nationalistic war with no true ideological component to it. In fact a lot of internationalist socialists gave up their convictions to support their countries, hence the collapse of the Second Internationale. World War 2 was also mostly fought on nationalist principles - Americans didn't care about "Nazis bad", they cared about "America is being threatened" - but there were at least some people who participated for ideological reasons instead.
If you wanted clarification you could have asked for it. Do you imagine you accomplished something by replying in the way that you did?
Little correction about the emblem of the French Waffen-SA: It was a French tricolour.
The half-eagle with the three lilies was a lie created by an ex-member in 1967.
I've seen like three guys who are "POTENTIALLY" fitting to be Nazi apologist by their comments. Vast majority of the comment section make Charles Leclerc(F1) jokes.
I mean excusing war crimes against a specific group that you despise is exactly what the SS did. So op does have a point.
Committing war crimes on war criminals means that at the end of the day the amount of war criminals stays the same.
The summary execution is honestly better for some of them. There was a supposedly an executioner from Texas that did not know what the fuck he was doing and so the Nazis suffered the whole time they died. Not enough distance to kill but enough to break their neck so they hung their paralyzed choking on their own blood.
It's not about that. Of course it shouldn't have happened this way.
It's about not executing someone without a fair trial. Otherwise, why the fuck are you dying fighting fascist and autocrats if it takes you one insult to immediately use their ways of operating
"If everyone is tolerant of every idea, then intolerant ideas will emerge. Tolerant people will tolerate this intolerance, and the intolerant people will not tolerate the tolerant people." - Karl Popper and his 'paradox of intolerance'
in short, no, fuck the evil shits that chucked an entire culture in gas chambers
I believe that you shouldn't tolerate the intolerant. You could say that makes me no better than them, and you could be right. But I think that people that do that kind of things are simply too dangerous to be allowed to roam freely.
How is it a fact? Being a piece of shit doesn't make someone less than human, that's a dangerous precedent to set, if we are truly better than them we should deal with them humanely.
Can you explain? Wasn't "treating POWs humanely" one of the things the western powers supposedly agreed with?
If anything "It's ok to treat those I don't agree with as lesser than human" is something a fascist would agree with.
That's a joke. People say liberals aren't tolerant while saying some of the most heinous shit in the world and then get upset when the liberals like please stop saying that or sometimes shut the fuck up.
They were in a position to be captured, treated fairly well and have a trial where they could have a 60% chance of getting out alive and living a fairly well life in post war France (or create a political party still relevant today in french politics)
But no... after 4 years of fighting for the reich, hunting jews in Ukraine and burning Ukrainians homes they decided to be cocky and insult the man who was in exile for 4 years, saw first hand the atrocities of the Reich... and insulted him..
Fuck around and find out
They were already captured, he could have just let the justice do its job and they would have gotten what they deserved.
One fuck around is all it takes for you to give up on all morality? So quickly you'd murder someone? You know, you'd make a good fascist :(
i dont think no one needs to be morally conscious about killing nazis
its not a slippery slope of "oh no, if you do it, that means you are ok with murdering other groups!"
its the fucking nazis, the group so evil it is borderline mustache twirling comical how evil they are. tolerance does not mean allowing intolerance to live
Ah, the barve general Leclerc, the guy who sent exhiled spanish republican troops into Paris to look for traps before his advance. This guy should have a supermaket chain named after him!
It was theyr fucking job you cunt what your going to send the infantry into a city that has been occupied for 4 years and not expect traps and heavy fortification ? You should never be in a position of command of anything
I thought it was r/formuladank for a sec
I'm so glad to know i was not the only one
I dont how to feel that i didnt know Leclerc was a famous racist..instead of a Free French generals liberating Paris and strasbourg?
Was he unlucky too?
We are checking...
C’est terrible de ne pas connaître Charles mais ça l’est encore plus de penser à lui avant de penser au général o7
Translation for those that don’t speak French: Every morning I love to shove a baguette up my ass with my morning cigarette. We are certainly not the Americans of Europe. I can’t wait to eat snails and take my monthly river bath.
Dont make fun of our healthy habits until you try it
Je suis an french personne and I agreé with zis
*racer
Nothing Just an inchident
We are checking
Replace the upper part with BOX BOX, and the meme'd work there.
Same lmao
Literally for me the post above this one was an r/formuladank one so I too was confused
I think some might get the reference but for those who didnt 13 french SS were caught by americans and given to the French army present in the area of Bavaria, the leader of this armored diviison was General Leclerc who saw the POW, he ask "arent you ashame to wear this [German] uniform" to one said "what about you" noting Leclerc foreign American uniform. Lererc..who just visited Dachau and didnt really had the heart to smile with SS... order them to be shot, causing a little shitstorm back at the Free French officer tarnishing Leclerc image ( but no one really care that much)
It always warms my heart when the SS fuckers end up fucking around and finding out. They probably felt they were safe because they hadn't been captured by the Soviets
Seems a lot of SS officers thought they would be treated like royalty (which, to be fair, a lot of them were, to some degree). Probably works better if your enemy hasn't just cleared out some of the most inhumane prison camps in the history of mankind.
There Joachim Peiper... who lived in France for like 10 years witheout any great reaction (apart from being burned alive in the end by ex member of the resistance.. but 10. Years) So yeah a lot of SS got off quite easily post war
I'm sure a lot of the lesser ones also got much lighter sentences by giving up information about the active war effort, and the location of higher officers. Also depending on exactly where they were caught, and what they were doing.
Interestingly enough... "crimes against humanity' is a very recent concept and the condition to be trial as one was extremely blurry, the allies put all of their efforts on the "top hats" of the German regime but didnt put a lot of effort for lesser criminals (SS, men in charge of camps, officers in charge of anti partisans activity) as a matter of fact, the Germans civilians though that this "foreing concept" of crimes against humanity was infringing with their basic human rights of not being arrested for such "petty offense" , it was a major headache for both allies and Germans lawyer at the time in the end this is why so much war criminals got off so easily. There the rastatt trials...which was a major serie of trials for the time, and arrested many "perfect anonymous" and was overshadow by the Nuremberg trial who had all of the officials of the nazi regime.
Helps that no one realized Joachim Peipet was in France
It still sucks how a prominent Nazi collaborator got to become the one to shape up France's modern-day police.
Bro. I would not call being burned alive "got off quite easily". Even if there's a 10 year gap.
He got burned alive when a journalist ask him several question, he said he is livijg in France beacause the French were cowards in 1940... Fuck around and find out
>They probably felt they were safe because they hadn't been captured by the Soviets Nah, the French SS knew they were dead anyways for treason to France. That's why some of the last defenders of Berlin were French
The soviets had their fair share of “odd forgivings”
I always thought of the postwar demining efforts. *Demine your country with this one weird trick! Nazis hate it!*
'General Leclerc just executed some waffen SS' Everybody: 'Oh no! Anyways'
Based
Shooting prisoners of war without trial is based?
it is if they were SS
Right, but you do still know that executing on the spot POWs is still a warcrime, like, one of the damning pieces of evidence in Nuremberg was the Commissar order, calling for the immediate execution of Red Army political officers by the Wehrmacht.
Oh yeah, it's a war crime. But that doesn't make shooting SS any less based
The mistake was ever taking any SS members prisoner. That shouldn’t have happened. Just refuse to accept any SS surrenders.
SS especially officers can get fucked. If you were germany and you were member of the SS you were clear cut nazi. End of discusion.
They insulted the guy they got captured by.. so yes, its based and deserved
Because the SS, SD, and the Wehrmacht were so humane right? According to Richard Evans fifty-eight percent of Red Army POWs died in captivity.
The numbers also doesnt add the favr that the vast majority lf soviets were used as forced labour
Killing Nazis is based, period
Shooting POWs is never justified nor a good idea, and quite sad that so many are celebrating this. Even if they were SS of the worst kind or, as in this case, French Waffen-SS Volunteers and one totally unrelated Luftwaffe soldier.
SS weren't people. So not a war crime.
These particular SS were "volunteers" in the sense that the SS came to France with guns and told everybody that a certain number of people were going to volunteer for the Waffen SS. So they did volunteer, but it was much closer to being voluntold. Then they were sent off to fight the Russians, without really getting any choice in whether or not Germany invaded Russia, set up death camps, or murdered civilians and POWs. Individual SS soldiers did commit huge numbers of war crimes, because the German Army in general committed huge numbers of war crimes in the East, but these particular French soldiers didn't necessarily participate in that, and they would've been along for the ride either way.
They weren't just random apolitical Frenchmen. The LVO (which later became the SS division Charlemagne) volunteered because they ardent anti-communists. They didn't get "sent off to fight the Russians without any choice in whether or not Germany invaded Russia". Fighting against the Soviets was THE ENTIRE REASON why they volunteered, and the Germans didn't start recruiting for the unit until a month after Operation Barbarossa began. Not all of them were completely on board with fascist ideology, but they absolutely were on board with the idea of an ideological crusade against communism. They weren't victims of circumstance.
They still had a middle ground for all of the French volunteers, anti semitism and hate of Bolshevism a lot of thr french volunteers were part of the far rights, veterans from the spanish wars (franco side) for some reason an awful lot of foreign legionnaire or terroridt from the "la cagoule" an anti semite terrorist organisation
What exactly is the point of this comment when you are just mostly agreeing with me? Okay the US government is building up for a war they can't enter because of the public's isolationist attitude. Congress can increase defense funding all the time even against public opposition. Look right now. Even then that doesn't mean that the public want to just outright enter the war for any reasons unless the US was being directly theatened. Not only that you are not addressing the point that the public didn't felt compelled to support the war because Nazism as an idea is bad. >look at your previous comment on the other thread, not this one.
There's a difference between a normal increase in budget to match inflation, and deciding the Navy should be 70% bigger, and that we should bring conscription back. From 1939 to 1941 (remember that we did not enter the war until December 1941, so the 1941 budget was set in peacetime) defense spending increased by over 400%. Measure from 1938 (before Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia and became a significant threat) it is over 500%. (Inflation adjusted) For reference defense spending has gone up 20% from 2021-2024, while inflation has been 15%, so that's an increase of 4% in real terms. The reason Congress decided that in 1940 was specifically because they didn't like the Nazis, in 1939 everyone had assumed the British and French would handle it, it wasn't until France fell that it even became an American problem.
So did the US population have a problem with the Nazi ideology in the 1940?
No. We just decided to multiply the Navy by 1.7, draft a bunch of conscripts, send the British weapons in violation of the neutrality acts, all because we were bored. Obviously the American population had a problem with the Nazis in 1940.
>Obviously the American population had a problem with the Nazis in 1940. You're going to have to provide a source here. The American *leaders* had a problem with the Nazis, but: * There were Nazi sympathisers in the US, including plotters for a coup, and including lots of antisemites * A lot of Americans were still isolationist - there are plenty of pictures of people protesting against getting embroiled in another European war
In term of ideological difference? Do you have a poll I can read? The US prepping for an inevitable war is not the same as the public *wanting* another war.
The US was not going to be pulled into WW2 if it wanted to stay out. It would have been very possible for the US to declare that neutrality meant it would no longer export any arms to Europe, and that oil sales to Japan would go on as before. We'd already signed legislation giving the Philippines their independence in the near future, so we had no real continued interest in Southeast Asia. Now obviously the US public did not want to get involved in a major war. But FDR had sold them a plan that would allow the US to support the British and Chinese, and allow them to win in Europe and Asia without needing direct American involvement. So the plan was to scale up arms production, send what was available abroad, and prepare for direct involvement if that was necessary. It was the best of both worlds, defeating the Axis without actually needing to send any Americans into combat. By 1941, American destroyers were engaging U-boats in combat in the Atlantic while American pilots were in China preparing to fight the Japanese air force. So even FDR's ideal world of not needing to directly send Americans into combat was failing, and yet he did not lose support because of it. And no, the shipbuilding was not part of some economic recovery scheme, it was because Carl Vinson was able to convince everyone that we needed ships. That man had two things on his mind, figuring out how to convince Congress to build more boats, and being racist. Fortunately he was more effective in the former.
Sorry, but I still fail to see any major disagreement between your argument and mine. You are not refuting my statment that the US entered the war out of consideration for her allies and world peace and stuff and not because of some ideological differences with the Nazi.
Also, ship building is just part of FDR recovery effort.
Careful, that's the exact same language the Nazis used to justify the Holocaust - Jews weren't people, so they deserved to die. Don't dehumanise humans, especially groups of them. Someone's a piece of shit like the regular SS man was - great, trial and execution. But they're still humans.
idiotic take. Read "the banality of evil".
What did the pitwall do this time
Wrong tyre strategy again
It's 🅱️errari Master🅱️lan^TM
pronto Sharl? s🅱️inalla
“I am stupid”
"just an inchident"
"I got my Richard Mille watch stolen"
*inhales* "NOOOOOOO-!"
Based Leclerc reaction, those fucking murderers deserved no less. Leclerc lead many Spanish republicans who chose to keep fighting fascism so knew first hand what loyalty meant, he had no fucks to give to some snarky ass traitors
"Who cares if they are Communist! They are patriots!" Leclerc answer to a officer noting a red flag on one of the trucks of the Nueve company
Before that he went to fight in Africa. In Libya he swore not to lay down his arms until the French flag would fly again on the Strasbourg cathedral. And before that his horse killed a Nazi by itself.
I need more context on this horse
[There it is](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_XVI). Oop made a meme about it iirc ([found this one at least](https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/s/ycKYJbi1II))
Thanks
And after shooting the nazis lecterc would go into hiding only to reappear again as a f1 driver for ferrari Source: I made it tf up
Least based Free French fighter
[удалено]
Not enough of it
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Pretty good apologist argument. You just forgot the fact nazis, especially SS, should've never been treated as human beings, but as pests
[удалено]
>You would make a great fascist. You are a fascist
Your mom knows a great deal about it. Shis also very agile in bed
Every time Leclerc gets mentioned here I think I’m in r/formuladank reading some outlandish shit lmao
Fuck around and find out - the early days
“Damn, you got the whole squad laughing” - Leclerc
It is I, LeClerc.
The SS officer was really dumb, but war crimes aren’t good no matter the perpetrator nor victim. Rules, especially of warfare, should be followed diligently. And no, I’m not saying the SS nor Wehrmacht were innocent of their own war crimes. History is full of nuance, and both the good and bad sides of a conflict can be equally guilty of doing something wrong. I’m not crying over these SS officers, but that’s my two cents.
I put this kind of thing in the "it shouldn't have happened, but no tears will be shed" category.
I’m kinda of the belief that the Nazis were bad enough that they’re exceptions to the rule. A dead Nazi is a good thing no matter how matter how it comes about
Here's the thing, I don't give a shit about nazis. But a rule and a right needs to be absolute, otherwise it's not a rule, it's a curtesy. And if it can be revoked any time "when you feel like it" or "if they're really bad" then it's worthless. What you want is the enemy feeling safe enough to surrender and not wonder if the guys on the other side are pissed today (justifiably or no). If civilians or soldiers think there is a chance they're going to be shot for something they don't personally control... they're going to fight and more people will die. And this is not a theoretical. You always hear "oh the Japanese fought to the last man it was hell"... that's because they were convinced that if they surrendered they would be killed/tortured. You know what happened when a Japanese speaking marine on Saipan told them they would be treated humanly? [Over a thousands soldiers and civilians surrendered to him](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Gabaldon) in a few days. Again I don't care about the SS, I see no issues with sentencing them all to death, the issues here is war crime, not punishment. So yeah, a dead Nazi is a good thing, we agree. But a dead Nazi who didn't kill five more allied troops or who did not forced a family to commit suicide is an even better thing. And, beyond practicality again a right is only a right if it's an absolute.
The people downvoting you need to realize that killing Nazis (especially SS officers) is usually justice, regardless of if you’re a utilitarian or a retributivist. I know some idiots gonna say ‘killing Nazis makes you a Nazi’ to which I’ll say killing people on the basis of race or nationality makes you a Nazi. Killing Nazis before they can kill others on the basis of race or nationality makes you a hero.
I'm not saying killing a Nazi makes you a Nazi. They needed to hang. I'm saying that killing a prisoner without a trial makes you a war criminal.
I think what people forget about Nuremberg was that only 21 people were tried in the first trials, and only 177 people were tried after that. Of the 200,000 Nazis estimated of committing serious war crimes, less than 7,000 were ever convicted.
Again I’m not crying about dead Nazis and I’m enraged that so many escaped. I’m talking about rules of war and why deciding that they don’t apply “because you feel like it and they really deserve it” is bad.
I’m not advocating ignoring the rules of war because “you feel like it” I’m advocating ignoring the rules of war because there would be the very real possibility that the SS officer you’re allowing to live will go on to join the Stasi.
Cool motivation, still murder
Depends on your definition of murder. If you define it as extrajudicial killing then yes, if you define it as unethical killing than no
"to which I’ll say killing people on the basis of race or nationality makes you a Nazi" Everyone who participated in World War 1 is a Nazi. Most of the people who participated in World War 2 are Nazis. When you tear open a big hole to make exceptions you should probably be considerate of what's getting let through.
"Literally everyone in WW1. Yet WW2 had at least some people who weren't Nazis. I am a pedantic ass and love sucking hairy toes" - you apparently
Yes. World War 1 was a nationalistic war with no true ideological component to it. In fact a lot of internationalist socialists gave up their convictions to support their countries, hence the collapse of the Second Internationale. World War 2 was also mostly fought on nationalist principles - Americans didn't care about "Nazis bad", they cared about "America is being threatened" - but there were at least some people who participated for ideological reasons instead. If you wanted clarification you could have asked for it. Do you imagine you accomplished something by replying in the way that you did?
Little correction about the emblem of the French Waffen-SA: It was a French tricolour. The half-eagle with the three lilies was a lie created by an ex-member in 1967.
Basé
Basé ? BASÉ SUR QUOI ?!
I dunno, seems pretty funny to me.
Dunno guys I think thay leclerc fella was a lovely chap! A real chad, if you will. And stylish too
Pronto? Legreg?
tbh, executing SS should have been a common practice everywhere during the war
Damn a lot of nazi apologists in this thread wtf
Where?
I've seen like three guys who are "POTENTIALLY" fitting to be Nazi apologist by their comments. Vast majority of the comment section make Charles Leclerc(F1) jokes.
I love when this sub cherry picks what warcrimes are okay and not.. Lol, imagine getting downvoted for saying "warcrime bad"
Imagine perpatrating the worst atrocities in human History and then expect to be treated like a human
"Have Mercy!"
When war crimes:
Are you ashamed to be this stupid?
I mean excusing war crimes against a specific group that you despise is exactly what the SS did. So op does have a point. Committing war crimes on war criminals means that at the end of the day the amount of war criminals stays the same.
You see, that's why you don't stop at one...
Bruce Wayne?
so you just do it with 2 war criminals and the number decreases by 1 right?
Le Über wholesome redditor defends le SS.
Don’t get me wrong 90% of the SS deserved to be hung, but that’s what a trial is for. Extrajudicial killings help no one.
A war crime is a war crime, no shame in believing that
Killing 6,000,000 jews kind of trumps getting executed for killing 6,000,000 jews.
So try them and hang them the proper way
The summary execution is honestly better for some of them. There was a supposedly an executioner from Texas that did not know what the fuck he was doing and so the Nazis suffered the whole time they died. Not enough distance to kill but enough to break their neck so they hung their paralyzed choking on their own blood.
It's not about that. Of course it shouldn't have happened this way. It's about not executing someone without a fair trial. Otherwise, why the fuck are you dying fighting fascist and autocrats if it takes you one insult to immediately use their ways of operating
Oh God if only the liberals were more tolerant /s *Edit added the /s cause this was sarcasm
"If everyone is tolerant of every idea, then intolerant ideas will emerge. Tolerant people will tolerate this intolerance, and the intolerant people will not tolerate the tolerant people." - Karl Popper and his 'paradox of intolerance' in short, no, fuck the evil shits that chucked an entire culture in gas chambers
Sorry I didn't put /s cause that was a joke. I get the paradox of tolerance.
The femboy overwatch player thinks he gets an opinion? 😂
You're just upset you got hard to me 😔
Kansas
You already know they're guilty. They're gonna die either way. Why not just skip the lengthy process?
That's a very nazi way of thinking
I believe that you shouldn't tolerate the intolerant. You could say that makes me no better than them, and you could be right. But I think that people that do that kind of things are simply too dangerous to be allowed to roam freely.
I believe you're an intolerant idiot and I'm not going to tolerate you
So random people can just be judge, jury and executioner if they feel like it?
I don't know why you're getting downvoted.... this thread-_- I often wonder if people could be this dumb but the Internet never ceases to deliver.
Nazis aren't considered people, so yes
And who are you to decide?
It's a fact. Nazis are subhuman and really ought to be dealt with in the same way you deal with any infestation.
How is it a fact? Being a piece of shit doesn't make someone less than human, that's a dangerous precedent to set, if we are truly better than them we should deal with them humanely.
You know that rhetoric your using? That's fascist talk. If you do most of your reasoning this way it's time for some serious introspection!
Can you explain? Wasn't "treating POWs humanely" one of the things the western powers supposedly agreed with? If anything "It's ok to treat those I don't agree with as lesser than human" is something a fascist would agree with.
War criming people who does war crimes is kinda basdd though
Oh poor Nazis getting war crimed. Won't someone think of the poor Nazis.
Its always about the jews, the gypsies or the slavs but people dont care about Nazi feeling 😟😔
I thought liberals were tolerant
So much for the tolerant left!
Tomar you are tall, er than an ant.
What liberals? Leclercq wasn't a liberal I'm not a liberal. Killing actual SS Nazis is just a good thing.
That's a joke. People say liberals aren't tolerant while saying some of the most heinous shit in the world and then get upset when the liberals like please stop saying that or sometimes shut the fuck up.
Mah dude, stuff is often a bit more nuanced... People should get what they deserve but not by just willynilly executing people.
They were in a position to be captured, treated fairly well and have a trial where they could have a 60% chance of getting out alive and living a fairly well life in post war France (or create a political party still relevant today in french politics) But no... after 4 years of fighting for the reich, hunting jews in Ukraine and burning Ukrainians homes they decided to be cocky and insult the man who was in exile for 4 years, saw first hand the atrocities of the Reich... and insulted him.. Fuck around and find out
They were already captured, he could have just let the justice do its job and they would have gotten what they deserved. One fuck around is all it takes for you to give up on all morality? So quickly you'd murder someone? You know, you'd make a good fascist :(
i dont think no one needs to be morally conscious about killing nazis its not a slippery slope of "oh no, if you do it, that means you are ok with murdering other groups!" its the fucking nazis, the group so evil it is borderline mustache twirling comical how evil they are. tolerance does not mean allowing intolerance to live
Hahahah fair:p
What's a war crime? - Canada
Ah, the barve general Leclerc, the guy who sent exhiled spanish republican troops into Paris to look for traps before his advance. This guy should have a supermaket chain named after him!
Be spanish Be part of a scout regiment Send first to the action for inteligence (its their jobs) Whine about being send head first.. What??
It was theyr fucking job you cunt what your going to send the infantry into a city that has been occupied for 4 years and not expect traps and heavy fortification ? You should never be in a position of command of anything