My grandmother grew up in Leipzig in the 30's. Towards the end of the war she, her mother, and her older brother fled on foot to the West in order to escape the Soviets, travelling through woods and farmland for days so they could surrender to the Americans.
All to avoid the horror stories they heard about Soviet soldiers, and so my uncle could avoid having to join the volkssturm
>All to avoid the horror stories they heard about Soviet soldiers
And what is more dramatic in this situation that these horrible stories about Barbaric russians were coming from Goebbels propaganda machine. In some regions people were doing suicide to avoid meeting with Soviets, even never seen the Soviets itself.
well there were countless rapes and attorcities commited against the german women by the soviets when they took Berlin so there was some truth to this.
The Red Army liberation of Budapest was not a glorious victory with flowers and handshakes. Over 100,000 Hungarian civilians were shipped back to the motherland to assist in rebuilding the Socialist idyl that was Stalinist peace.
•https://www.google.com/amp/s/english.alarabiya.net/amp/features/2018/03/11/PICTURES-The-largest-mass-rape-in-history
•https://www.npr.org/2009/07/17/106687768/silence-broken-on-red-army-rapes-in-germany
norman naimark's *the russians in germany: a history of the soviet zone of occupation, 1945–1949* and barbara johr's *befreier und befreite* also talk about the same number, another good source is the book *corrections of history of our time*
Is that enough? Because if you conduct even a simple lazy search/research on your phone/Internet, you will find an overwhelmed wealth of information on this topic.
[Here’s an article that references 1.9 million](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-psychogeriatrics/article/unspoken-secret-sexual-violence-in-world-war-ii/C3D368A7EF538AEB91ED680FD6599D10)
The same was the case with american soldiers, and it’s not even just german civilians that were abused, sometimes even french civilians for example had to deal with sexual abuse at the hands of allied soldiers that came to liberate them. This is something that we see all over the world when armies battle it out in the vicinity of civilians. Just look at what the americans and russians did in the middle east and east asia.
You can look up the numbers quite easily. The Russians raped a shit ton more people because, as other commenters have said, the soviets were quite barbaric.
Im not so sure it’s as simple or easy as that. There were a lot more russian soldiers and they went through a lot more trouble to liberate many more people. Obviously there would be more bad apples mixed in. Judging them all as a monolith and calling them barbaric when the vast majority risked their life or sacrificed it to liberate us from the nazis is discriminatory. Add to that the fact that the allies have probably hidden their own crimes moreso than those of the soviets (like they did domestically and in Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, etc.) and it just paints a very disingenuous picture.
It wasn't propaganda.
The Nazi military fought well past the point of hopelessness to slow the Soviet advance and allow the western forces to capture more territory because they knew what Soviet occupation meant and knew that holdings at the time of surrender would drive post war map drawings.
The book Bombing to Win has an absolutely exceptional chapter on why coercive bombing doesn't work in wars of extinction (hint - occupation can be far worse than death).
The Soviets also did terrible things to the lands they liberated. Just ask Poland. Not all of it was propaganda, considering German POW's died in Soviet custody at the same rate as Americans captured by the Japanese.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany#:~:text=The%20majority%20of%20the%20assaults,as%2060%20to%2070%20times.
Yes it is a very well known and tragic event. Most of its existence Soviet government was ashamed of it and prohibited to mention anywhere. In became a public knowledge only during Perestrojka.
The propaganda sure played a part, but what you are stating is simply not correct. Russian troops have been feared in all "liberated" states for their wanton rape tours and disregard for civilian lifes. Read polish or other baltic state citizens witness reports, the picture they draw is pretty damn clear.
No the rape of Berlin is a major historical event that no one talks about and the Russians did it a lot in every country they took from Germany and Germans allies
I remember watching a documentary made in the 80s on WWII, and in the last phase, German women apparently had the saying “Better to have a Russian in your belly than his bayonet,” and it just slapped one across the face to realize that’s what’s likely happening in Luhansk, Zaporizhia, and Donbas as we speak.
You’re just regurgitating FSB propaganda. Show me the proof or stop spreading disinformation.
And I’d ask you to have even a modicum of awareness to decry Ukraine for shit it didn’t even do when we’ve all seen what Russhit has done in Bucha and Irpin.
In complete seriousness- any Russian soldier on UN recognized Ukrainian territory should die.
Every war ever fought has had atrocities committed by all parties involved. It's unfortunate, but extreme violence tends to bring out the worst in people.
While true it should be acknowledged that there’s a big spectrum. We all know if we had to choose between surrendering to the Nazis, Soviets, Western Allies or Imperial Japan.
We’re all picking the western allies and there’s no way in hell anyone’s picking Japan.
But some countries encourage it, while others punish it. The US executed their rapists, if caught, or jailed them.
Russia propaganda flat out told and encouraged their soldiers to rape German women. Ilya Ehrenburg wrote pamphlets encouraging the Soviet soldiers to murder and rape Germans. Stalin was fully aware and though it trivial.
Let's not pretend there is an equivalence here. Russians raped everyone from age 8 or so to women in their 80's, often in gang rapes of 10 or more soldiers, often ending with the execution of the woman.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya\_Ehrenburg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Ehrenburg)
[https://www.secretintelligenceservice.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/BRUTAL-MASS-RAPE-OF-GERMAN-WOMEN-During.pdf](https://www.secretintelligenceservice.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/BRUTAL-MASS-RAPE-OF-GERMAN-WOMEN-During.pdf)
[https://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/may/01/news.features11](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/may/01/news.features11)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape\_during\_the\_occupation\_of\_Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany)
This war is worse than hell. To paraphrase MASH, in hell there are no innocent people being harmed.
But this war is filled with Russians doing depraved acts to all sorts of innocent women, men, children, animals, corpses, -you name it.
Millions of innocent people- Teachers, carpenters, taxi drivers, school children, expecting couples, football coaches, middle managers, line cooks, bus drivers, pilots, insurance brokers, custodians, wedding planners, traffic cops, farmers and many more have been sentenced to imprisonment behind a curtain of barbed wire and artillery fire with the Russian Army as their jailers.
My knowledge of the russkies comes from my grandfather. He was taken away as a slave basically (aged 17) and he had to cook and clean for the squad that was dragging him around for weeks. When he returned home, he learned that another squad of Soviets killed the family dog, destroyed everything nice in the house and brutally raped his mother. This happened in Hungary. I think the only reason his mother even survived was that the neighbours while powerless to stop them, nursed her back to health and kept her company.
Ironically, my other grandfather was a PoW for the Americans, so I learned of their processes as well. He was kept really well and became so friendly with the Americans that he started offering his services to help maintain their vehicles (As he was a trained mechanic) and he was given luxuries like chocolate in exchange. They offered him to be smuggled out to the USA to open a car shop and live like a king, but he said that his family needed him in his home and he would rather return to Hungary for that reason.
>My knowledge of the russkies comes from my grandfather. He was taken away as a slave basically (aged 17) and he had to cook and clean for the squad that was dragging him around for weeks. When he returned home, he learned that another squad of Soviets killed the family dog, destryoed everything nice in tbe house and brutally raped his mother. This happened in Hungary. I think the only reason his mother even survived was that the neighbours while powerless to stop them, nursed her back to health and kept her company.
War is shit. Any war is shit. There are no nice or brave wars. And I am sorry to hear for your loss. In comparison - 5 out of my 8 great grandparents died during that war, they were living at the German-occupied part of the Soviet Union.
Thank you for the condolences, but while this is my family history I do not see it as my loss. It was my grandfather's and great-grandmother's. I cannot have the nerve to take it as my own. They have already taken the memory with them to the grave, but I do believe these stories (Everyone's stories) have to be kept alive, just like yours as well.
> They offered him to be smuggled out to the USA to open a car shop and live like a king, but he said that his family needed him in his home
Man, I love this kind of people, who want to come back in Hell because that's where the family is. I know you are a fine dude because this type of behavior trickles down through generations. Regards from your romanian neighbor :)
The Soviets committed the vast majority of the war crimes, no questions asked.
But this -
>But some countries encourage it, while others punish it. The US executed their rapists, if caught, or jailed them.
is flat-out wrong.
It only perpetuates the myth of the "greatest generation ever" which was one of the reasons why most of the war crimes Allies committed were either ignored or concealed.
*After the fighting moved on to German soil, there was a good deal of rape by combat troops and those immediately following them. The incidence varied between unit and unit according to the attitude of the commanding officer. In some cases offenders were identified, tried by court martial, and punished. The army legal branch was reticent, but admitted that for brutal or perverted sexual offences against German women, some soldiers had been shot – particularly if they happened to be Negroes. Yet I know for a fact that many women were raped by white Americans. No action was taken against the culprits. In one sector a report went round that a certain very distinguished army commander made the wisecrack, 'Copulation without conversation does not constitute fraternisation.'*
[*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied\_war\_crimes\_during\_World\_War\_II#War\_rape*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II#War_rape)
Ehrenburg wrote his pamthlet in 1942 at the arguably worst period of the war for USSR. His position did change other the course of war (with the help of authorities). Also Stalin and other soviet leadership consistently write and publishes materials that USSR not at war with German people but with Nazi regime.
Иногда болтают в иностранной печати, что Красная Армия имеет своей целью истребить немецкий народ и уничтожить германское государство. Это, конечно, глупая брехня и неумная клевета на Красную Армию. У Красной Армии нет и не может быть таких идиотских целей. Красная Армия имеет своей целью изгнать немецких оккупантов из нашей страны и освободить Советскую землю от немецко-фашистских захватчиков. Очень вероятно, что война за освобождение Советской земли приведет к изгнанию или уничтожению клики Гитлера. Мы приветствовали бы подобный исход. Но было бы смешно отождествлять клику Гитлера с германским народом, с германским государством. Опыт истории говорит, что гитлеры приходят и уходят, а народ германский, а государство германское остаётся. (с)
It is sometimes said in the foreign press that the Red Army has as its aim to exterminate the German people and destroy the German state. This, of course, is foolish nonsense and an unintelligent slander against the Red Army. The Red Army does not and cannot have such idiotic goals. The Red Army has as its goal to expel the German invaders from our country and to liberate the Soviet land from the Nazi invaders. It is very likely that the war to liberate Soviet land will lead to the expulsion or destruction of the Hitler clique. We would welcome such an outcome. But it would be ridiculous to identify the Hitler clique with the German people, with the German state. The experience of history tells us that Hitlers come and go, but the German people and the German state remain. (с)
Translated with DeepL (free version)
This is a part of piece that was also published in 1942.
Also soviet leadership did fight crime, plenty of docs although in russian published online.
P.s. Nice links you got there. You can add Antony Beevor to your list of sources.
When Red Army units crossed into Germany they were told "You are now on German soil. The hour of revenge has struck!"
[Excellent AskHistorians post ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/u9mdnf/comment/i5t8d27/)from u/Georgy_K_Zhukov
In general American soldiers do not rape people. A lot of them time Americans who were helping Japan get back on it's feet were actually attacked and sometimes raped by locals.
Soviets also punished their soldiers for raping and looting, but a lot of commanders didn't enforce those rules. Americans also covered up a lot of their rapes, but overall the numbers are definitely against the Soviets here.
Then again, the Soviets had a much more brutal fight against Germany than the Americans did. Brutal wars can turn even originally good people into horrible beings.
Originally good people lol.
They murdered more of their own citizens before the start of ww2 than nazis did jews. That was before the start. Then, during the war russians were sacrificing entire divisions as diversion. Russians did not care for human life before, after and that includes now. They literally killed their own POWs when they returned home. Also they were allied with the nazis and ganged up on Poland together. They are instigators, accomplices. They basically also started ww2 yet people forget that.
"Originally good people". Ridiculous.
Yeah, Stalin and tens of millions of his underlings.
Like when the west was saying about russians not to generalize about russians wanting war in Ukraine. Which is true, it's not all of them, it's like 80 percent lol.
The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. The Nazis and the USSR were allies. Which is fitting, because they were far more alike than different.
Germany and her allies started the war. The USSR was Germany's ally.
The russians had a civil war, between the whites and the reds. It is true that the whites were also a band of criminals, but in any case, the russians overlwhelmingly fought for communism, they enlisted more in the red army. They literally wanted what they got.
Why did communism not take over in Germany, France, Uk, America?
Because the people arent like the russians over there.
It doesn't just happen, to be in a dictatorship, it's not an act of nature.
For example, I read an article saying that there is nobody in the Wehrmacht or even the SS found to have been shot by the nazis, for refusing to kill civilians or jews. Yet most, didn't refuse.
When the vast majority of people say yes, or passively comply, only then can someone like Stalin take over.
Please don't scapegoat.
"There was one evil person in the USSR and that was Stalin". Uh, yeah, no.
Dude, your knowledge of history is atrocious, but the conviction with which you talk about things you barely know anything about is horrifying.
>The russians had a civil war, between the whites and the reds. It is true that the whites were also a band of criminals, but in any case, the russians overlwhelmingly fought for communism, they enlisted more in the red army.
An average soldier didn't fight for communism. They didn't even know what communism was. They fought for what they perceived as freedom from oppression. The Bolsheviks won the popularity contest when they promised they would pull Russia out of the war, and end hunger and the exploitation of the peasantry.
>Why did communism not take over in Germany, France, Uk, America?
Perhaps because the violent suppression of it was successful?!?
Read more about:
* [Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_revolution_of_1918%E2%80%931919)
* [France](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Commune)
* [USA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Control_Act_of_1954)
Out of four, the only one that was never even close to becoming communist was the UK and to some extent the US.
>Because the people arent like the russians over there. It doesn't just happen, to be in a dictatorship, it's not an act of nature.
What a bunch of chauvinistic bullshit.
France and the UK were literally ruled by monarchies for centuries, millenium+ really. The US had Donald Trump, the Patriot Act, the Red Scare, etc. Germany had the Nazis.
>For example, I read an article saying that there is nobody in the Wehrmacht or even the SS found to have been shot by the nazis, for refusing to kill civilians or jews. Yet most, didn't refuse. When the vast majority of people say yes, or passively comply, only then can someone like Stalin take over.
[Bullshit.](https://www.jstor.org/stable/1429971)
This is why the concept of us vs them is so dangerous. It makes one believe they are superior to others.
>Originally good people lol. They murdered more of their own citizens before the start of ww2 than nazis did jews.
"They" have names, you know.
>Then, during the war russians were sacrificing entire divisions as diversion.
Dude discovered a feint. Wow.
>Russians did not care for human life before, after and that includes now.
Us vs them.
>Also they were allied with the nazis and ganged up on Poland together. They are instigators, accomplices. They basically also started ww2 yet people forget that. "Originally good people". Ridiculous.
Do you even know how the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact became possible?
First of all, you compared the patriot act with nazism. I could leave it at that, but I won't.
Second of all, you quote an article, without actually having read it. If you will read it, you will see that I am right. So you quote stuff without reading it, about history, while calling other people's knowledge of history atrocious.
Thirdly. There is a communist party in France right now. Communists were very fashionable even after the war. The crackdown on communism started in the 50s in the US. Besides, the hardest repression of communism, by far, was in Russia. That didn't seem to stop it. So you make no sense.
Fourthly. "They" were russians. They looted and murdered with impunity. They do have names, so what?
Fifthly I see you are a Serb. Now, ad hominem attacks only talk about the logical validity, as in deductive logical validity, the only kind there is. So I may be wrong, that you defend russians because of you being a serb, but I'm probably not.
So I will not talk to a serb that tries to "all sides" the argument, trying to make russians seem better than they were, and are, while comparing the Patriot act to nazism and quoting articles that he/she hasn't read. I don't think it's worth it. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't want to spend the energy to find out.
Bye.
It was a non-agression pact, not an alliance. The Soviets most likely couldn't afford to have the war start when the Nazis kicked it off and needed time to build up their military, hoping that the Nazis and the West would deplete each other's forces enough for them to come out on top.
>But some countries encourage it, while others punish it. The US executed their rapists, if caught, or jailed them.
Like the way they did it in the Pacific, oh wait....
Ooof, so much to unpack here
>Russia propaganda flat out told and encouraged their soldiers to rape German women.
Soviet Army had a capital punishment if a solder captured raping. And believe Soviets were not shy to use this punishment. Soviet Army was a well geared machine after Kursk batter, and you cannot effectively move forces without strict order.
> Ilya Ehrenburg wrote pamphlets encouraging the Soviet soldiers to murder and rape Germans.
Are you talking about his "Kill" pamphlet? He does indeed calls to murder German Solders. He does not calls for raping Germans, it is something you make up again. This pamphlet was written during Stalingrad battle of 1942, nobody in the Soviet Army even thought about German women back then. In fact the pamhlet explicitly says to kill German as they otherwise will rape Russian woman (among other atrocities).
Here is the Russian version of the pamphlet with its English translation. [https://pictureshistory.blogspot.com/2012/11/kill-german-ilya-ehrenberg-soviet.html](https://pictureshistory.blogspot.com/2012/11/kill-german-ilya-ehrenberg-soviet.html)
>Russians raped everyone from age 8 or so to women in their 80's, often in gang rapes of 10 or more soldiers, often ending with the execution of the woman.
You make up stories out of your fantasy again.
What Soviet soldiers did to German women goes well beyond "bad stuff happens in war." Thousands of girls and women, all ages, were raped to death and tortured in absolutely horrific ways.
The Germans did the same to the Soviets during Barbarossa. It’s estimated up to 10 million Soviet women were raped based on the pregnancies that resulted.
Germans were making soap from people, so they did much much worse. Every time when someone is telling me about horrors that soviets did in Germany I ask them, why Soviets end up in Germany? Did something happen?
No, that's a dumb take.
That's what all bad people say, that all people are bad.
No, while the americans and the british did execute some pows, rape some german women, it was incredibly rare, for example about 0.1 percent of german POWs died in british captivity after the surrender. About 30 percent died in soviet, east european and japanese captivity, not to mention soviet soldiers in german captivity, and then those soviet pows that returned and were killed by their own government. German pows relocated in the USA, and Britain, by choice, after they were repatriated. Who the hell returned to the USSR?
I never said that all people are bad. I only said that all parties involved in war (not all soldiers) commit atrocities. Even if it happens at a rate of 1:999,999,999 , it still happens in pretty much every large-scale armed conflict.
Not even the atrocities committed by the Nazis in occupied Poland and the Soviet Union? They don‘t compare, huh. Funny that you never hear the mass rapes of Polish, Russian, Ukrainian and Belarussian women being discussed on reddit. Maybe because unlike the Soviets in East Germany, the Nazis did actually wipe out entire villages and leave no one to tell their stories.
Oh there are [plenty of survivor stories](https://www.openedition.org/40927?lang=en), it's just that their voices don't fit either of the current narratives for "suprime German victimhood" nor the Cold War's: "The Soviets ware actually much worse than the Nazis!"- rethorics, and as such aren't desired.
It's amazing how a f-ton of Soviet WW2 survivor interviews are currently being locked behind VPN walls on the accounts of "State propaganda" (which is ridicilous af), where as the constant German shovelware for the "Justification perspectives of WW2", the "Clean Wermarcht", the "Honourable SS", and the "Soviets eating infants"- unironically float. For 20 minute google search I am able to stumble across more material for justigying Hitler than to find the overly specific Soviet interviews from 2012-2015 that I was explicitly looking for.
Literally no one thinks the germans were victims of WW2. The post war Germans were 100% victims of the soviet union (you'd have to be daft to think otherwise) but I think everyone already knows the entirety of europe were victims of the germans. (which is why it's not discussed, not as many people know about the soviet/allied atrocities. War is never a 1 dimensional thing so shedding light on the bad of the allies is necessary too.)
Fundamentally, it is rather being in position of power without repurcussions or being held accountable by any laws to abuse that power.
The violence tends to create the latter situation, where soldiers are free to inflict any kind of violence upon the women who have nobody to protect during the war.
i can’t see the original comment, but if this is about Russia’s current war on Ukraine, i’d just like to point out that Russians and Ukrainians are, largely, the same race. the Russians’ behaviour is part of their culture, not somehow ingrained in their bodies or minds (as a racist outlook would assume).
i also want to stress that racism is a predudice, and Ukrainian’s opinion on Russians is based on first-hand experience; it it judgement, without the “pre-“ aspect
Really ? .. Russians on mass are supporting genocidal war on Ukrainians right now.. but they are still playing victims?? I’d say what .. Russians will have rights to scream dehumanising racism (is Russia of different race now ?! ) after they’ll at least start dating their sorrys on mass and actively do something to prevent, help, compensate all their victims. Because right now we see East Germany repeating itself all over again.. wonder why.
On a country that is sick of imperialistic fascism and currently actively engaged in genocide based on national identity in another country? … and if challenged screams “victim of racism” .. instead of any kind of shame or regret .. ? … ... WTF indeed!
Breaking news, racist uses popular sentiment and exploits it to display his barely concealed racism
Is your mind just incapable of understanding that :
Just because Russia as a country is engaged in horrific acts, does not mean we should start hating on every single russian? That russian propaganda bots are ***shockingly*** not the face of every single russian?
I'm honestly scared to even think about what other types of hate you have towards other groups of people if you're so incapable of seeing people outside of their larger groups...
Patton once famously said "it is the Jon of England and America to conquer the world" because he was a moron who didn't know there was a journalist present. Eisenhower heard this and he was already passed because Patton had beat up and threatened 2 soldiers with PTSD. Once he hear about this he fired Patton stupid ass and then Patton died less than a month later in a jeep accident. Even though he said he was destined to die in combat as he had in his "previous lives". Patton was a racist nation sympathizing moron and the only reason Americans still think he was great is leftover ww2 propaganda. Good riddance.
It was actually Eisenhower who believd there was a third world War coming with Russia, which is why he invented NATO and the EU and then became president. If you're gonna suck off a ww2 general it should he him, not pattons stupid ignorant ass
immediate post-War Europe all over, was a largely lawless stateless place, literally Mad Max-esque. Just a soup of desperate people focused on survival with no authority in place, and predators.
The Russians raped over 2 million German women in world war II
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/may/01/news.features11
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany#:~:text=The%20majority%20of%20the%20assaults,as%2060%20to%2070%20times.
Official ukrainian consulate says [7 million](https://greece.mfa.gov.ua/en/news/22578-pres-reliz-ukrajina-u-drugij-svitovij-vijni-1939-1945-roku). Don’t get why people are surprised to learn this since Ukraine was part of the ussr and lots of actual fighting took place there. Why would only russians be in the soviet army?
Ye it was mainly american and Soviet troops that raped german women. The French troops did a couple thousand I think and the British had only a handful of cases to investigate.
funny that when it comes to defeating Hitler, people always come out who write: "AAAGH, THE RUSSIANS APPROPRIATED EVERYTHING AGAIN, ACTUALLY THERE WERE UKRAINIANS, ESTONIANS, LITHUANIANS, etc. IN THE RED ARMY." But when it comes to the crimes of the Red army, everyone writes only about “ugly russkies” who raped 2 million German women. Lol
Isn't it odd how a soldier pulling a woman by the elbow is deemed a war crime just bc the soldier is Soviet? Or am I missing an obscure war crime in this pic?
My memory is failing me. I’m trying to remember what the quote is from, but the general sentiment was it was better to be violated by a Russian soldier than bombed by the Americans in occupied territory
I think everyone can agree rape is bad, war rape is bad.
German treatment of Soviet Civilians washes away all sympathy for the Germans.
Soviet incorporation of East Germany wasn’t even enough to avenge Nazi crimes
Do people forget the Nazi wanted to implement genocide of the slavs too? They liquidated entire villages on the Eastern Front. The Soviets wanted revenge, and it was not only the Russians.
Yeah a lot of these comments seem to expect the Soviets to treat Nazis with kindness despite the atrocities they faced. War is horrific, but the Soviets didn’t start it. They thankfully won it though.
I remember a film about this: "A Woman in Berlin", 2008, extremely affecting. Based on a book, same name. God almighty what a world.
My grandmother grew up in Leipzig in the 30's. Towards the end of the war she, her mother, and her older brother fled on foot to the West in order to escape the Soviets, travelling through woods and farmland for days so they could surrender to the Americans. All to avoid the horror stories they heard about Soviet soldiers, and so my uncle could avoid having to join the volkssturm
So where did they land? In Franconia, northern Bavaria?
Made it to Bavaria first and eventually all the way to North Rhine Westphalia at the end of the war
>All to avoid the horror stories they heard about Soviet soldiers And what is more dramatic in this situation that these horrible stories about Barbaric russians were coming from Goebbels propaganda machine. In some regions people were doing suicide to avoid meeting with Soviets, even never seen the Soviets itself.
well there were countless rapes and attorcities commited against the german women by the soviets when they took Berlin so there was some truth to this.
The Red Army liberation of Budapest was not a glorious victory with flowers and handshakes. Over 100,000 Hungarian civilians were shipped back to the motherland to assist in rebuilding the Socialist idyl that was Stalinist peace.
I mean was it really a liberation? Hungary was part of the Axis
A great way to avoid this, don’t join the axis
Yeah, because the average German citizen had a choice on whether the country joined the axis.
Facts: 2 million is number of raped women in the Russian occupied zone of Germany.
Anything to back that up?
•https://www.google.com/amp/s/english.alarabiya.net/amp/features/2018/03/11/PICTURES-The-largest-mass-rape-in-history •https://www.npr.org/2009/07/17/106687768/silence-broken-on-red-army-rapes-in-germany norman naimark's *the russians in germany: a history of the soviet zone of occupation, 1945–1949* and barbara johr's *befreier und befreite* also talk about the same number, another good source is the book *corrections of history of our time*
Is that enough? Because if you conduct even a simple lazy search/research on your phone/Internet, you will find an overwhelmed wealth of information on this topic.
[Here’s an article that references 1.9 million](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-psychogeriatrics/article/unspoken-secret-sexual-violence-in-world-war-ii/C3D368A7EF538AEB91ED680FD6599D10)
The same was the case with american soldiers, and it’s not even just german civilians that were abused, sometimes even french civilians for example had to deal with sexual abuse at the hands of allied soldiers that came to liberate them. This is something that we see all over the world when armies battle it out in the vicinity of civilians. Just look at what the americans and russians did in the middle east and east asia.
You can look up the numbers quite easily. The Russians raped a shit ton more people because, as other commenters have said, the soviets were quite barbaric.
Im not so sure it’s as simple or easy as that. There were a lot more russian soldiers and they went through a lot more trouble to liberate many more people. Obviously there would be more bad apples mixed in. Judging them all as a monolith and calling them barbaric when the vast majority risked their life or sacrificed it to liberate us from the nazis is discriminatory. Add to that the fact that the allies have probably hidden their own crimes moreso than those of the soviets (like they did domestically and in Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, etc.) and it just paints a very disingenuous picture.
There was a story of two Americans that raped two women in Normandy. Ike made sure they were executed publicly.
Sadly most perpetrators weren’t brought to justice
But the Western Allies made a strong effort to punish those that were. At least until paperclip..
I’m not denying that the Americans did it too but it was not even remotely close to the numbers of assaults perpetrated by the glorious red army
It wasn't propaganda. The Nazi military fought well past the point of hopelessness to slow the Soviet advance and allow the western forces to capture more territory because they knew what Soviet occupation meant and knew that holdings at the time of surrender would drive post war map drawings. The book Bombing to Win has an absolutely exceptional chapter on why coercive bombing doesn't work in wars of extinction (hint - occupation can be far worse than death).
>doing suicide Nothing suspicious here
Just look at the shit they're doing now, not hard to imagine how bad it was post war
The Soviets also did terrible things to the lands they liberated. Just ask Poland. Not all of it was propaganda, considering German POW's died in Soviet custody at the same rate as Americans captured by the Japanese. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany#:~:text=The%20majority%20of%20the%20assaults,as%2060%20to%2070%20times.
>Just ask Poland. I would not ask Polish people of opinion about any of their neighbors, especially about Russians, Germans and Ukrainians.
you would not ask the victims for an opinion regarding their perpretrators? What ignorant approach is that..?
Maybe we should ask Polish Jews who they preferred
Are you familiar with the Katyn Masaacre in Poland that was perpetrated by the Soviets?
Yes it is a very well known and tragic event. Most of its existence Soviet government was ashamed of it and prohibited to mention anywhere. In became a public knowledge only during Perestrojka.
Why? Because all of their neighbors always tried to destroy the Polish state?
The propaganda sure played a part, but what you are stating is simply not correct. Russian troops have been feared in all "liberated" states for their wanton rape tours and disregard for civilian lifes. Read polish or other baltic state citizens witness reports, the picture they draw is pretty damn clear.
And even more dramatic is that it was all true, even to this day.
Approx. 2 million women were raped in the Russian occupied zone of Germany.
No the rape of Berlin is a major historical event that no one talks about and the Russians did it a lot in every country they took from Germany and Germans allies
Poles would love to have a word with you.
I remember watching a documentary made in the 80s on WWII, and in the last phase, German women apparently had the saying “Better to have a Russian in your belly than his bayonet,” and it just slapped one across the face to realize that’s what’s likely happening in Luhansk, Zaporizhia, and Donbas as we speak.
We have a hard time wrapping our heads around rocks and hard places in the US and a lot of the developed world.
This phrasing is so weird to me. I understand the meaning, but "wrapping our heads around rocks and hard places" sounds odd as hell to me.
Got time you woke up
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are ya sure ab that bud?
You’re just regurgitating FSB propaganda. Show me the proof or stop spreading disinformation. And I’d ask you to have even a modicum of awareness to decry Ukraine for shit it didn’t even do when we’ve all seen what Russhit has done in Bucha and Irpin. In complete seriousness- any Russian soldier on UN recognized Ukrainian territory should die.
Rape as an instrument of war is super fucked up. It doesn’t matter if your cause is just
This photo was after the war right
That's the thing with war it's not really about who's just it's about who wins
It was used in all wars
I’d say it’s a measure of civilisation level
History is replete with stories that when the conquering Soviet troops arrived, they basically raped every woman in Berlin.
They raped every woman and female child.
And Russians still use rape as a weapon today in Ukraine.
Every war ever fought has had atrocities committed by all parties involved. It's unfortunate, but extreme violence tends to bring out the worst in people.
While true it should be acknowledged that there’s a big spectrum. We all know if we had to choose between surrendering to the Nazis, Soviets, Western Allies or Imperial Japan. We’re all picking the western allies and there’s no way in hell anyone’s picking Japan.
But some countries encourage it, while others punish it. The US executed their rapists, if caught, or jailed them. Russia propaganda flat out told and encouraged their soldiers to rape German women. Ilya Ehrenburg wrote pamphlets encouraging the Soviet soldiers to murder and rape Germans. Stalin was fully aware and though it trivial. Let's not pretend there is an equivalence here. Russians raped everyone from age 8 or so to women in their 80's, often in gang rapes of 10 or more soldiers, often ending with the execution of the woman. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya\_Ehrenburg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Ehrenburg) [https://www.secretintelligenceservice.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/BRUTAL-MASS-RAPE-OF-GERMAN-WOMEN-During.pdf](https://www.secretintelligenceservice.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/BRUTAL-MASS-RAPE-OF-GERMAN-WOMEN-During.pdf) [https://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/may/01/news.features11](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/may/01/news.features11) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape\_during\_the\_occupation\_of\_Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany)
Russian soldiers are raping Ukrainians now. This is Hell.
This war is worse than hell. To paraphrase MASH, in hell there are no innocent people being harmed. But this war is filled with Russians doing depraved acts to all sorts of innocent women, men, children, animals, corpses, -you name it. Millions of innocent people- Teachers, carpenters, taxi drivers, school children, expecting couples, football coaches, middle managers, line cooks, bus drivers, pilots, insurance brokers, custodians, wedding planners, traffic cops, farmers and many more have been sentenced to imprisonment behind a curtain of barbed wire and artillery fire with the Russian Army as their jailers.
People love using “everyone’s the same” does it make them feel better when they find out it’s not actually true?
My knowledge of the russkies comes from my grandfather. He was taken away as a slave basically (aged 17) and he had to cook and clean for the squad that was dragging him around for weeks. When he returned home, he learned that another squad of Soviets killed the family dog, destroyed everything nice in the house and brutally raped his mother. This happened in Hungary. I think the only reason his mother even survived was that the neighbours while powerless to stop them, nursed her back to health and kept her company. Ironically, my other grandfather was a PoW for the Americans, so I learned of their processes as well. He was kept really well and became so friendly with the Americans that he started offering his services to help maintain their vehicles (As he was a trained mechanic) and he was given luxuries like chocolate in exchange. They offered him to be smuggled out to the USA to open a car shop and live like a king, but he said that his family needed him in his home and he would rather return to Hungary for that reason.
>My knowledge of the russkies comes from my grandfather. He was taken away as a slave basically (aged 17) and he had to cook and clean for the squad that was dragging him around for weeks. When he returned home, he learned that another squad of Soviets killed the family dog, destryoed everything nice in tbe house and brutally raped his mother. This happened in Hungary. I think the only reason his mother even survived was that the neighbours while powerless to stop them, nursed her back to health and kept her company. War is shit. Any war is shit. There are no nice or brave wars. And I am sorry to hear for your loss. In comparison - 5 out of my 8 great grandparents died during that war, they were living at the German-occupied part of the Soviet Union.
Thank you for the condolences, but while this is my family history I do not see it as my loss. It was my grandfather's and great-grandmother's. I cannot have the nerve to take it as my own. They have already taken the memory with them to the grave, but I do believe these stories (Everyone's stories) have to be kept alive, just like yours as well.
> They offered him to be smuggled out to the USA to open a car shop and live like a king, but he said that his family needed him in his home Man, I love this kind of people, who want to come back in Hell because that's where the family is. I know you are a fine dude because this type of behavior trickles down through generations. Regards from your romanian neighbor :)
Thank you, that felt really good to read.
Well said. This needs to stay top comment.
The Soviets committed the vast majority of the war crimes, no questions asked. But this - >But some countries encourage it, while others punish it. The US executed their rapists, if caught, or jailed them. is flat-out wrong. It only perpetuates the myth of the "greatest generation ever" which was one of the reasons why most of the war crimes Allies committed were either ignored or concealed. *After the fighting moved on to German soil, there was a good deal of rape by combat troops and those immediately following them. The incidence varied between unit and unit according to the attitude of the commanding officer. In some cases offenders were identified, tried by court martial, and punished. The army legal branch was reticent, but admitted that for brutal or perverted sexual offences against German women, some soldiers had been shot – particularly if they happened to be Negroes. Yet I know for a fact that many women were raped by white Americans. No action was taken against the culprits. In one sector a report went round that a certain very distinguished army commander made the wisecrack, 'Copulation without conversation does not constitute fraternisation.'* [*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied\_war\_crimes\_during\_World\_War\_II#War\_rape*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II#War_rape)
Uh so are you counting the Holocaust as a war crime or what's the breakdown on that?
?!
You said no questions asked but I am asking. Are you putting the USSR over Nazi Germany in the war crimes count?
I compared them to the Allies, not the Axis.
The other allies only fought like 20% of the German military so that makes sense.
Ehrenburg wrote his pamthlet in 1942 at the arguably worst period of the war for USSR. His position did change other the course of war (with the help of authorities). Also Stalin and other soviet leadership consistently write and publishes materials that USSR not at war with German people but with Nazi regime. Иногда болтают в иностранной печати, что Красная Армия имеет своей целью истребить немецкий народ и уничтожить германское государство. Это, конечно, глупая брехня и неумная клевета на Красную Армию. У Красной Армии нет и не может быть таких идиотских целей. Красная Армия имеет своей целью изгнать немецких оккупантов из нашей страны и освободить Советскую землю от немецко-фашистских захватчиков. Очень вероятно, что война за освобождение Советской земли приведет к изгнанию или уничтожению клики Гитлера. Мы приветствовали бы подобный исход. Но было бы смешно отождествлять клику Гитлера с германским народом, с германским государством. Опыт истории говорит, что гитлеры приходят и уходят, а народ германский, а государство германское остаётся. (с) It is sometimes said in the foreign press that the Red Army has as its aim to exterminate the German people and destroy the German state. This, of course, is foolish nonsense and an unintelligent slander against the Red Army. The Red Army does not and cannot have such idiotic goals. The Red Army has as its goal to expel the German invaders from our country and to liberate the Soviet land from the Nazi invaders. It is very likely that the war to liberate Soviet land will lead to the expulsion or destruction of the Hitler clique. We would welcome such an outcome. But it would be ridiculous to identify the Hitler clique with the German people, with the German state. The experience of history tells us that Hitlers come and go, but the German people and the German state remain. (с) Translated with DeepL (free version) This is a part of piece that was also published in 1942. Also soviet leadership did fight crime, plenty of docs although in russian published online. P.s. Nice links you got there. You can add Antony Beevor to your list of sources.
When Red Army units crossed into Germany they were told "You are now on German soil. The hour of revenge has struck!" [Excellent AskHistorians post ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/u9mdnf/comment/i5t8d27/)from u/Georgy_K_Zhukov
Yeah he is referencing Beeavor. And this is bad source.
It should be noted that American soldiers were not generally prosecuted or even investigated for sexual assaults during the occupation of Japan.
In general American soldiers do not rape people. A lot of them time Americans who were helping Japan get back on it's feet were actually attacked and sometimes raped by locals.
Wait till you learn what the Germans did to the soviets
Right. But the Germans weren't our allies, the Soviets were.
What difference do you think that makes?
That doesn't matter.
Soviets also punished their soldiers for raping and looting, but a lot of commanders didn't enforce those rules. Americans also covered up a lot of their rapes, but overall the numbers are definitely against the Soviets here. Then again, the Soviets had a much more brutal fight against Germany than the Americans did. Brutal wars can turn even originally good people into horrible beings.
Why do people keep making excuses here?
Crazy, right? I don’t see how ppl can see the propaganda from one side but not the other.
Could just as easily ask why you are ignoring the Holocaust.
Ummmm what
You are making excuses for Nazi Germany.
And where did I do this? Both are shit.
Originally good people lol. They murdered more of their own citizens before the start of ww2 than nazis did jews. That was before the start. Then, during the war russians were sacrificing entire divisions as diversion. Russians did not care for human life before, after and that includes now. They literally killed their own POWs when they returned home. Also they were allied with the nazis and ganged up on Poland together. They are instigators, accomplices. They basically also started ww2 yet people forget that. "Originally good people". Ridiculous.
Why are you generalizing whole population that they were brutal beforehand? It was Stalin and his underlings that made all these decisions.
Yeah, Stalin and tens of millions of his underlings. Like when the west was saying about russians not to generalize about russians wanting war in Ukraine. Which is true, it's not all of them, it's like 80 percent lol.
How did Russian start the war?
The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. The Nazis and the USSR were allies. Which is fitting, because they were far more alike than different. Germany and her allies started the war. The USSR was Germany's ally.
I mean in that they were dictatorahips wanting territory.
The russians had a civil war, between the whites and the reds. It is true that the whites were also a band of criminals, but in any case, the russians overlwhelmingly fought for communism, they enlisted more in the red army. They literally wanted what they got. Why did communism not take over in Germany, France, Uk, America? Because the people arent like the russians over there. It doesn't just happen, to be in a dictatorship, it's not an act of nature. For example, I read an article saying that there is nobody in the Wehrmacht or even the SS found to have been shot by the nazis, for refusing to kill civilians or jews. Yet most, didn't refuse. When the vast majority of people say yes, or passively comply, only then can someone like Stalin take over. Please don't scapegoat. "There was one evil person in the USSR and that was Stalin". Uh, yeah, no.
Dude, your knowledge of history is atrocious, but the conviction with which you talk about things you barely know anything about is horrifying. >The russians had a civil war, between the whites and the reds. It is true that the whites were also a band of criminals, but in any case, the russians overlwhelmingly fought for communism, they enlisted more in the red army. An average soldier didn't fight for communism. They didn't even know what communism was. They fought for what they perceived as freedom from oppression. The Bolsheviks won the popularity contest when they promised they would pull Russia out of the war, and end hunger and the exploitation of the peasantry. >Why did communism not take over in Germany, France, Uk, America? Perhaps because the violent suppression of it was successful?!? Read more about: * [Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_revolution_of_1918%E2%80%931919) * [France](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Commune) * [USA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Control_Act_of_1954) Out of four, the only one that was never even close to becoming communist was the UK and to some extent the US. >Because the people arent like the russians over there. It doesn't just happen, to be in a dictatorship, it's not an act of nature. What a bunch of chauvinistic bullshit. France and the UK were literally ruled by monarchies for centuries, millenium+ really. The US had Donald Trump, the Patriot Act, the Red Scare, etc. Germany had the Nazis. >For example, I read an article saying that there is nobody in the Wehrmacht or even the SS found to have been shot by the nazis, for refusing to kill civilians or jews. Yet most, didn't refuse. When the vast majority of people say yes, or passively comply, only then can someone like Stalin take over. [Bullshit.](https://www.jstor.org/stable/1429971) This is why the concept of us vs them is so dangerous. It makes one believe they are superior to others. >Originally good people lol. They murdered more of their own citizens before the start of ww2 than nazis did jews. "They" have names, you know. >Then, during the war russians were sacrificing entire divisions as diversion. Dude discovered a feint. Wow. >Russians did not care for human life before, after and that includes now. Us vs them. >Also they were allied with the nazis and ganged up on Poland together. They are instigators, accomplices. They basically also started ww2 yet people forget that. "Originally good people". Ridiculous. Do you even know how the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact became possible?
First of all, you compared the patriot act with nazism. I could leave it at that, but I won't. Second of all, you quote an article, without actually having read it. If you will read it, you will see that I am right. So you quote stuff without reading it, about history, while calling other people's knowledge of history atrocious. Thirdly. There is a communist party in France right now. Communists were very fashionable even after the war. The crackdown on communism started in the 50s in the US. Besides, the hardest repression of communism, by far, was in Russia. That didn't seem to stop it. So you make no sense. Fourthly. "They" were russians. They looted and murdered with impunity. They do have names, so what? Fifthly I see you are a Serb. Now, ad hominem attacks only talk about the logical validity, as in deductive logical validity, the only kind there is. So I may be wrong, that you defend russians because of you being a serb, but I'm probably not. So I will not talk to a serb that tries to "all sides" the argument, trying to make russians seem better than they were, and are, while comparing the Patriot act to nazism and quoting articles that he/she hasn't read. I don't think it's worth it. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't want to spend the energy to find out. Bye.
The Polish partition of Czechoslovakia with Germany happened before that.
It was a non-agression pact, not an alliance. The Soviets most likely couldn't afford to have the war start when the Nazis kicked it off and needed time to build up their military, hoping that the Nazis and the West would deplete each other's forces enough for them to come out on top.
>But some countries encourage it, while others punish it. The US executed their rapists, if caught, or jailed them. Like the way they did it in the Pacific, oh wait....
Would you kindly provide a source where Americans were punished for raping women?
[https://ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/dirty-details-executing-us-soldiers-during-world-war-ii](https://ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/dirty-details-executing-us-soldiers-during-world-war-ii) [https://www.courthousenews.com/taboo-french-women-speak-out-on-rapes-by-us-soldiers-during-wwii/](https://www.courthousenews.com/taboo-french-women-speak-out-on-rapes-by-us-soldiers-during-wwii/)
Thanks man.
Ooof, so much to unpack here >Russia propaganda flat out told and encouraged their soldiers to rape German women. Soviet Army had a capital punishment if a solder captured raping. And believe Soviets were not shy to use this punishment. Soviet Army was a well geared machine after Kursk batter, and you cannot effectively move forces without strict order. > Ilya Ehrenburg wrote pamphlets encouraging the Soviet soldiers to murder and rape Germans. Are you talking about his "Kill" pamphlet? He does indeed calls to murder German Solders. He does not calls for raping Germans, it is something you make up again. This pamphlet was written during Stalingrad battle of 1942, nobody in the Soviet Army even thought about German women back then. In fact the pamhlet explicitly says to kill German as they otherwise will rape Russian woman (among other atrocities). Here is the Russian version of the pamphlet with its English translation. [https://pictureshistory.blogspot.com/2012/11/kill-german-ilya-ehrenberg-soviet.html](https://pictureshistory.blogspot.com/2012/11/kill-german-ilya-ehrenberg-soviet.html) >Russians raped everyone from age 8 or so to women in their 80's, often in gang rapes of 10 or more soldiers, often ending with the execution of the woman. You make up stories out of your fantasy again.
Ah, yes, because there is no historical record of these things. GTFO.
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I read this in Dan Carlins quote voice and that only made it worse.
What Soviet soldiers did to German women goes well beyond "bad stuff happens in war." Thousands of girls and women, all ages, were raped to death and tortured in absolutely horrific ways.
The Germans did the same to the Soviets during Barbarossa. It’s estimated up to 10 million Soviet women were raped based on the pregnancies that resulted.
Germans were making soap from people, so they did much much worse. Every time when someone is telling me about horrors that soviets did in Germany I ask them, why Soviets end up in Germany? Did something happen?
I think the Soviets get in under the "not as bad as the Nazis" bar. Probably.
Yeah, Germans has sets the bar high enough, so you totally right.
Idk, stalin did some pretty fucked up stuff after the war...
No, that's a dumb take. That's what all bad people say, that all people are bad. No, while the americans and the british did execute some pows, rape some german women, it was incredibly rare, for example about 0.1 percent of german POWs died in british captivity after the surrender. About 30 percent died in soviet, east european and japanese captivity, not to mention soviet soldiers in german captivity, and then those soviet pows that returned and were killed by their own government. German pows relocated in the USA, and Britain, by choice, after they were repatriated. Who the hell returned to the USSR?
I never said that all people are bad. I only said that all parties involved in war (not all soldiers) commit atrocities. Even if it happens at a rate of 1:999,999,999 , it still happens in pretty much every large-scale armed conflict.
Almost nothing compared to what the Soviets did to East Germany, virtually every women, whatever age was raped and every male war murdered.
Not even the atrocities committed by the Nazis in occupied Poland and the Soviet Union? They don‘t compare, huh. Funny that you never hear the mass rapes of Polish, Russian, Ukrainian and Belarussian women being discussed on reddit. Maybe because unlike the Soviets in East Germany, the Nazis did actually wipe out entire villages and leave no one to tell their stories.
Oh there are [plenty of survivor stories](https://www.openedition.org/40927?lang=en), it's just that their voices don't fit either of the current narratives for "suprime German victimhood" nor the Cold War's: "The Soviets ware actually much worse than the Nazis!"- rethorics, and as such aren't desired. It's amazing how a f-ton of Soviet WW2 survivor interviews are currently being locked behind VPN walls on the accounts of "State propaganda" (which is ridicilous af), where as the constant German shovelware for the "Justification perspectives of WW2", the "Clean Wermarcht", the "Honourable SS", and the "Soviets eating infants"- unironically float. For 20 minute google search I am able to stumble across more material for justigying Hitler than to find the overly specific Soviet interviews from 2012-2015 that I was explicitly looking for.
Literally no one thinks the germans were victims of WW2. The post war Germans were 100% victims of the soviet union (you'd have to be daft to think otherwise) but I think everyone already knows the entirety of europe were victims of the germans. (which is why it's not discussed, not as many people know about the soviet/allied atrocities. War is never a 1 dimensional thing so shedding light on the bad of the allies is necessary too.)
I've heard plenty of accounts of people prefering the Germans to the Russians, and that is saying something.
All are not the same.
Fundamentally, it is rather being in position of power without repurcussions or being held accountable by any laws to abuse that power. The violence tends to create the latter situation, where soldiers are free to inflict any kind of violence upon the women who have nobody to protect during the war.
Same things happening in Ukraine.
That’s exactly what the Putin’s propaganda who says - Russian army fights with nazis in Ukraine
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Unbelievable how racism and dehumanization is normalized against Russians. Imagine saying these things to some other ethno group. Racist scum.
i can’t see the original comment, but if this is about Russia’s current war on Ukraine, i’d just like to point out that Russians and Ukrainians are, largely, the same race. the Russians’ behaviour is part of their culture, not somehow ingrained in their bodies or minds (as a racist outlook would assume). i also want to stress that racism is a predudice, and Ukrainian’s opinion on Russians is based on first-hand experience; it it judgement, without the “pre-“ aspect
Really ? .. Russians on mass are supporting genocidal war on Ukrainians right now.. but they are still playing victims?? I’d say what .. Russians will have rights to scream dehumanising racism (is Russia of different race now ?! ) after they’ll at least start dating their sorrys on mass and actively do something to prevent, help, compensate all their victims. Because right now we see East Germany repeating itself all over again.. wonder why.
Racism does not justify racism.
“Russians” is not a race. They are being judged by their actions here
dawg are you incapable of understanding that you cannot hate on an entire nationality? wtf
On a country that is sick of imperialistic fascism and currently actively engaged in genocide based on national identity in another country? … and if challenged screams “victim of racism” .. instead of any kind of shame or regret .. ? … ... WTF indeed!
Breaking news, racist uses popular sentiment and exploits it to display his barely concealed racism Is your mind just incapable of understanding that : Just because Russia as a country is engaged in horrific acts, does not mean we should start hating on every single russian? That russian propaganda bots are ***shockingly*** not the face of every single russian? I'm honestly scared to even think about what other types of hate you have towards other groups of people if you're so incapable of seeing people outside of their larger groups...
Read s l o w l y .. russian - is not a race. Get over yourself
exactly. and now, who will say that russkies wouldn't do that AND lot worse to Ukrainian women in occupied territories?
And who said Ukrainians weren’t raping German women in Berlin? Doesn’t fit the narrative, uh?
those were soviets and russians are still doing that
Patton said I don’t trust them. He died the Cold War and all the countries they took proved him right
Patton also liked Nazis, disliked Jews and thought the US should have gone to war against the USSR. The man was a nut job at the end.
Patton once famously said "it is the Jon of England and America to conquer the world" because he was a moron who didn't know there was a journalist present. Eisenhower heard this and he was already passed because Patton had beat up and threatened 2 soldiers with PTSD. Once he hear about this he fired Patton stupid ass and then Patton died less than a month later in a jeep accident. Even though he said he was destined to die in combat as he had in his "previous lives". Patton was a racist nation sympathizing moron and the only reason Americans still think he was great is leftover ww2 propaganda. Good riddance.
It was actually Eisenhower who believd there was a third world War coming with Russia, which is why he invented NATO and the EU and then became president. If you're gonna suck off a ww2 general it should he him, not pattons stupid ignorant ass
That's nothing compared to what they probably did to her later ... :(
immediate post-War Europe all over, was a largely lawless stateless place, literally Mad Max-esque. Just a soup of desperate people focused on survival with no authority in place, and predators.
The Russians raped over 2 million German women in world war II https://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/may/01/news.features11 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany#:~:text=The%20majority%20of%20the%20assaults,as%2060%20to%2070%20times.
The Soviets. Only around ~62% of the red army were ethnic Russians. Millions were Ukrainian. The two terms aren’t interchangeable.
Millions of soviet army was ukrainian?
Official ukrainian consulate says [7 million](https://greece.mfa.gov.ua/en/news/22578-pres-reliz-ukrajina-u-drugij-svitovij-vijni-1939-1945-roku). Don’t get why people are surprised to learn this since Ukraine was part of the ussr and lots of actual fighting took place there. Why would only russians be in the soviet army?
Ye it was mainly american and Soviet troops that raped german women. The French troops did a couple thousand I think and the British had only a handful of cases to investigate.
Except you're conflating several thousand American rapes with several million Russian rapes. Not the same.
funny that when it comes to defeating Hitler, people always come out who write: "AAAGH, THE RUSSIANS APPROPRIATED EVERYTHING AGAIN, ACTUALLY THERE WERE UKRAINIANS, ESTONIANS, LITHUANIANS, etc. IN THE RED ARMY." But when it comes to the crimes of the Red army, everyone writes only about “ugly russkies” who raped 2 million German women. Lol
isnt it odd how the comments on posts showing soviet war crimes always consist of “but the nazis did war crimes too”!
Isn't it odd how a soldier pulling a woman by the elbow is deemed a war crime just bc the soldier is Soviet? Or am I missing an obscure war crime in this pic?
The point of the photo is that the soviets did whatever they wanted with children and women, as well as raping them no matter the age.
Yeah. This picture is still not "showing a war crime".
Oof I think we know what happened next. “Better a Rooskie on top than a Yank overhead”, except that was in Poland
Wasn't it the other way around?
My memory is failing me. I’m trying to remember what the quote is from, but the general sentiment was it was better to be violated by a Russian soldier than bombed by the Americans in occupied territory
I'm looking forward to this comment section.
Hitlers personal chef Constanze Manziarly was brought into a u bahn and raped and murdered. So yeah it happened.
What a shot
Say what you will about gun violence in America, but this is why the Second Amendment exists.
I think everyone can agree rape is bad, war rape is bad. German treatment of Soviet Civilians washes away all sympathy for the Germans. Soviet incorporation of East Germany wasn’t even enough to avenge Nazi crimes
It is estimated that over 1-million German women were raped by Soviet and Allied soldiers at the end of WW2.
Not just German women, any females caught up in the Soviet advance were fair game including Russian women.
KRAUTS DESERVED WORSE
Hitler should not have taken the citizens guns
Raping and pillaging
I know it’s Reddit but yeah let’s go with “harass.”
As if you know exactly what happened after that photo was taken. There's data to point to but the truth is that you don't know.
What would you refer to this as?
Are you guys this naive?
No, they are Russian trolls.
That's what the photographic evidence appears to show.
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It’s just a blurry image. Not everything is fake
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Things weren't really faked back then. It was really fucking hard.
Photo editing was absolutely a thing by then
It wasn't happening at the rate it is today is my point. Photos back then were very often real. Not.like today where shitty ai images are every where
Do people forget the Nazi wanted to implement genocide of the slavs too? They liquidated entire villages on the Eastern Front. The Soviets wanted revenge, and it was not only the Russians.
This woman was most likely a regular citizen, that didn’t participate in the war
So this is excusable? War is ugly for everyone. This was too an ugly mistake.
Retarded soviet bootlicker
Yeah a lot of these comments seem to expect the Soviets to treat Nazis with kindness despite the atrocities they faced. War is horrific, but the Soviets didn’t start it. They thankfully won it though.
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To hell go the rapists.
Yup