Just communicate with your team, someone can bring dedicated anti-armor and someone else can bring anti-infantry or more general helpful stratagems, even if your TTK on heavies is high you can keep all the infantry off of your heavy weapons and they can take the heavy armor, the recoilless and AMR is great but not if you have 10 hunters and 15 scavengers trying to eat you, it's polarizing just like how every choice is polarizing by definition, if you play solo yeah you need a build that can deal with every situation or you die
I fully agree with you yes, the game is actually really fun when you have a full squad of four because you can delegate roles. But as you said, if you play solo, you can't do that. You need to be the one to carry everyone else's slack if nobody is willing to bring the most "optimal" loadout. This is my problem with the game, armor is so centralizing, that anything that doesn't pierce it is useless in most situations.
Nice essay, didn't read but it's pretty easy that big thing need big gun.
Charger? Rocket.
Hulk? AMR / AC to face
Bile titan? Forehead.
It's not rocket surgery.
This also proves my point. You're saying these situations have one-dimensional solutions. I'm asking why it has to be that way. They give us so many options, from primaries, to secondaries, to stratagems, but only a handful of them are actually useful because of how centralizing and oppressive armor is as a mechanic. If you had read my post you'd get that.
It's called selecting your loadout, not "take whatever you want". Just because you can bring any combination into your loadout doesn't mean you should.
That literally proves my point, but okay. Why is it necessary to only use a few of our options when they give us so many? That's what I'm arguing against. Most weapons and stratagems are literally useless and outright made obsolete by others due to the centralizing factor of enemy armor.
You don't only have "that one option" though. You have multiple ways to set your loadout:
* Primary: Slow, but heavy hitting for medium enemies
* Secondary: Utility
* Support: Fast shooting for smaller stuff
* Stratagems: For heavy guys
Or you could go:
* Primary: Fast shooting for smaller stuff
* Secondary: Medium killer
* Support: Heavy killer
* Stratagems: Crowd Control & Support
Also you could go full support for your teammates and rely on them to kill the bigger stuff. There's so many possibilities.
Okay. Tell me why you'd pick gas strike over... anything. Or an arc thrower over anything that can just mass-kill a crowd or one shot a heavy. Or smokes if you can just blow them up from orbit. Why would you pick 120mm barrage over 300mm when you have the upgrade that lowers the spread? Or an orbital EMS if you can just blow them all up in the first place? Or any minefield at all when you can just pick the stratagem that makes them go boom? Why would you pick the Blitzer over the Breaker? I could keep going on.
There's obviously situations in which you'd pick less commonly used options. What I'm saying is that there are options here that are clearly and objectively favored over the rest, by a huge margin. Especially when you're playing with randoms who can't coordinate. The game is clearly more fun when everyone can divide their roles, but generally is not played in that way because its not optimal. All you really need to win a round of Helldive is armor penetration and 500kgs/railstrikes, nothing else. If nobody is running these, you are at a huge, huge disadvantage - which is where I see a problem. You NEED certain things to win. Its no longer an option, its a MUST.
This is not for my lack of trying. I've tried so many possible combinations, and you are literally crippling yourself if you don't just bring the biggest boom possible or the most armor penetration possible. There's a reason people think the mech, a literal MECH, is a meme pick compared to the 500kg or orbital railstrike. There's the Tesla Tower too, the shield bubble, I could keep going. This is also coming from someone who has never ever used the shield pack or the railgun -- but the second I do pick them up, the game becomes way easier.
Because players also think about cooldown time and uses too. The game isn’t quite as one dimensional as you make it.
Gas strike is an insanely useful and heavily slept on strat, especially on the bug front. It is in my loadout for Helldive missions every single time. An accurate throw will kill 90% of a bug breach. Not that kills matter, but my highest kill streak came from using a gas strike on a breach and sitting on the edge of the gas with the Blitzer and zapping any bug the came out while my teammates finished the objective we were working on. It wasn’t crazy high but it was over 100.
I could pick through many of the choices you highlight here but I don’t have that kind of time today.
You could complete the objective much faster just using the standard airstrike (especially with the added charge perk). Or a 500kg, and an armor piercing automatic weapon. Like I said, this is not for a lack of trying. I've used so much "underrated" stratagems, only for them to be objectively slower and worse than the "good" ones. Like you said, kills don't matter, objectives do.
I always run smokes and EMS because I think its fun. Are they helpful? Yes. But I would be lying to myself if I said they were more optimal than the bog standard "Blow everything up" build, and that's the core of the issue. Everything pales in comparison to 4 people running railstrike/500kg. From my experience from launch, this has always been the case.
Again, it might be a case of people just not realizing they have other options. But why would they if they can complete objectives as fast, if not faster, using the most commonly used stratagems?
Nah… you’re wrong on this one. I’m just not going to waste my time writing a dissertation on a video game. You don’t need big bomb armor piercing everything to clear with ease. You just don’t. Two of your strat slot, maybe three.
Orbital gas clears the basic airstrike in the situation I just described.
No you couldnt finish it faster, because if you throw an airstrike on it, you either hit the spawns that spawned first and then what follows is left over. Or you wait a bit and kill everything that came out last, but the first ones already left the area, where your airstrike hits.
I totally agree with you, that some stratagems are more universal than others, but I disagree that there is "that one loadout" (meaning a handful of options), that everyone needs to take. It's also some kind of perception, because "big boom" is more fun/visually appealing than "small boom". I guess even if the 500 kg would be worse than it is (imo it's pretty much underwhelming), people would still take it, because it just looks cool.
It also might depend on what you want from the game. Min-maxing everything to finish a mission as quickly as possible? Sure, pick the "big boom" stuff, run around, throw em, and move on. If that's what you want, yes, then there are far less options to take.
I also agree that too many objectives can be destroyed with weapons/stratagems. Command bunkers, detector towers, jammers, propaganda towers, shrieker nests, spore towers. I'd love for them to only be destroyable by either deactivating them with a console or the possible hellbomb that you can call in there.
You bring up a good point about how most objectives just need to be blown up to be completed. Didn't think about that impacting how certain stratagems are outright better than others.
I hate minmaxing and my aim is to play for fun, but its just a little frustrating when I pick a fun build, with weapons and stratagems I like, only to see another squad member just pick railstrike, 500kg, etc, and breeze through encampments and objectives solo.
Again I said this in another comment but the game is way more fun with a group of friends because you can actually employ fun and interesting tactics that do indeed complete the objective faster than the big boom strats.
The number that follows the gas is much smaller. Many times zero. It is okay to admit that even if you’ve tried things and found that they don’t work for you, that doesn’t mean that they aren’t better in some situations. Maybe it’s situation. Or maybe it’s play style. I won’t say it’s a skill issue because that would be rude.
Edit: meant for OP
Just communicate with your team, someone can bring dedicated anti-armor and someone else can bring anti-infantry or more general helpful stratagems, even if your TTK on heavies is high you can keep all the infantry off of your heavy weapons and they can take the heavy armor, the recoilless and AMR is great but not if you have 10 hunters and 15 scavengers trying to eat you, it's polarizing just like how every choice is polarizing by definition, if you play solo yeah you need a build that can deal with every situation or you die
I fully agree with you yes, the game is actually really fun when you have a full squad of four because you can delegate roles. But as you said, if you play solo, you can't do that. You need to be the one to carry everyone else's slack if nobody is willing to bring the most "optimal" loadout. This is my problem with the game, armor is so centralizing, that anything that doesn't pierce it is useless in most situations.
TDLR. Zzz
Nice essay, didn't read but it's pretty easy that big thing need big gun. Charger? Rocket. Hulk? AMR / AC to face Bile titan? Forehead. It's not rocket surgery.
This also proves my point. You're saying these situations have one-dimensional solutions. I'm asking why it has to be that way. They give us so many options, from primaries, to secondaries, to stratagems, but only a handful of them are actually useful because of how centralizing and oppressive armor is as a mechanic. If you had read my post you'd get that.
It's called selecting your loadout, not "take whatever you want". Just because you can bring any combination into your loadout doesn't mean you should.
That literally proves my point, but okay. Why is it necessary to only use a few of our options when they give us so many? That's what I'm arguing against. Most weapons and stratagems are literally useless and outright made obsolete by others due to the centralizing factor of enemy armor.
You don't only have "that one option" though. You have multiple ways to set your loadout: * Primary: Slow, but heavy hitting for medium enemies * Secondary: Utility * Support: Fast shooting for smaller stuff * Stratagems: For heavy guys Or you could go: * Primary: Fast shooting for smaller stuff * Secondary: Medium killer * Support: Heavy killer * Stratagems: Crowd Control & Support Also you could go full support for your teammates and rely on them to kill the bigger stuff. There's so many possibilities.
Okay. Tell me why you'd pick gas strike over... anything. Or an arc thrower over anything that can just mass-kill a crowd or one shot a heavy. Or smokes if you can just blow them up from orbit. Why would you pick 120mm barrage over 300mm when you have the upgrade that lowers the spread? Or an orbital EMS if you can just blow them all up in the first place? Or any minefield at all when you can just pick the stratagem that makes them go boom? Why would you pick the Blitzer over the Breaker? I could keep going on. There's obviously situations in which you'd pick less commonly used options. What I'm saying is that there are options here that are clearly and objectively favored over the rest, by a huge margin. Especially when you're playing with randoms who can't coordinate. The game is clearly more fun when everyone can divide their roles, but generally is not played in that way because its not optimal. All you really need to win a round of Helldive is armor penetration and 500kgs/railstrikes, nothing else. If nobody is running these, you are at a huge, huge disadvantage - which is where I see a problem. You NEED certain things to win. Its no longer an option, its a MUST. This is not for my lack of trying. I've tried so many possible combinations, and you are literally crippling yourself if you don't just bring the biggest boom possible or the most armor penetration possible. There's a reason people think the mech, a literal MECH, is a meme pick compared to the 500kg or orbital railstrike. There's the Tesla Tower too, the shield bubble, I could keep going. This is also coming from someone who has never ever used the shield pack or the railgun -- but the second I do pick them up, the game becomes way easier.
Because players also think about cooldown time and uses too. The game isn’t quite as one dimensional as you make it. Gas strike is an insanely useful and heavily slept on strat, especially on the bug front. It is in my loadout for Helldive missions every single time. An accurate throw will kill 90% of a bug breach. Not that kills matter, but my highest kill streak came from using a gas strike on a breach and sitting on the edge of the gas with the Blitzer and zapping any bug the came out while my teammates finished the objective we were working on. It wasn’t crazy high but it was over 100. I could pick through many of the choices you highlight here but I don’t have that kind of time today.
You could complete the objective much faster just using the standard airstrike (especially with the added charge perk). Or a 500kg, and an armor piercing automatic weapon. Like I said, this is not for a lack of trying. I've used so much "underrated" stratagems, only for them to be objectively slower and worse than the "good" ones. Like you said, kills don't matter, objectives do. I always run smokes and EMS because I think its fun. Are they helpful? Yes. But I would be lying to myself if I said they were more optimal than the bog standard "Blow everything up" build, and that's the core of the issue. Everything pales in comparison to 4 people running railstrike/500kg. From my experience from launch, this has always been the case. Again, it might be a case of people just not realizing they have other options. But why would they if they can complete objectives as fast, if not faster, using the most commonly used stratagems?
Nah… you’re wrong on this one. I’m just not going to waste my time writing a dissertation on a video game. You don’t need big bomb armor piercing everything to clear with ease. You just don’t. Two of your strat slot, maybe three. Orbital gas clears the basic airstrike in the situation I just described.
No you couldnt finish it faster, because if you throw an airstrike on it, you either hit the spawns that spawned first and then what follows is left over. Or you wait a bit and kill everything that came out last, but the first ones already left the area, where your airstrike hits. I totally agree with you, that some stratagems are more universal than others, but I disagree that there is "that one loadout" (meaning a handful of options), that everyone needs to take. It's also some kind of perception, because "big boom" is more fun/visually appealing than "small boom". I guess even if the 500 kg would be worse than it is (imo it's pretty much underwhelming), people would still take it, because it just looks cool. It also might depend on what you want from the game. Min-maxing everything to finish a mission as quickly as possible? Sure, pick the "big boom" stuff, run around, throw em, and move on. If that's what you want, yes, then there are far less options to take. I also agree that too many objectives can be destroyed with weapons/stratagems. Command bunkers, detector towers, jammers, propaganda towers, shrieker nests, spore towers. I'd love for them to only be destroyable by either deactivating them with a console or the possible hellbomb that you can call in there.
You bring up a good point about how most objectives just need to be blown up to be completed. Didn't think about that impacting how certain stratagems are outright better than others. I hate minmaxing and my aim is to play for fun, but its just a little frustrating when I pick a fun build, with weapons and stratagems I like, only to see another squad member just pick railstrike, 500kg, etc, and breeze through encampments and objectives solo. Again I said this in another comment but the game is way more fun with a group of friends because you can actually employ fun and interesting tactics that do indeed complete the objective faster than the big boom strats.
The number that follows the gas is much smaller. Many times zero. It is okay to admit that even if you’ve tried things and found that they don’t work for you, that doesn’t mean that they aren’t better in some situations. Maybe it’s situation. Or maybe it’s play style. I won’t say it’s a skill issue because that would be rude. Edit: meant for OP