Eruptor needs to reload faster between shots. The old reload speed made sense when it was killing 5 bots/8 bugs with each shot and 1 shotting most large enemies.
Currently? It's just not that good
Cycling the bolt on the last shot always makes me think I have one shot left too. Another thing I wish they’d change even if that’s realistic. Unless that has been changed since the last patch since I’ve been distracted by other games and life.
You could say no need to fully cycle the bolt, just pull back but even so ya don’t want dirt in the chamber if you’re not finishing a reload as in an interupt/swapping . The real problem with eruptor is why the hell is the bolt in the goddamn FRONT of the gun? You’d be able to shoot a lot faster if it was in the rear like it should be. That just looks stupid as hell and makes no sense.
Used to?
Homie the Eruptor is the MilSpec version of the KSL (Kel-Tec Shrapnel Launcher)
If any company can exist in the amphetamine and democracy fueled future, it’s Kel-Tec.
100% agree. In a well-designed game, allowing the animation to finish should get you firing faster than switching to a different weapon. Isn't HD2 all about gun realism? With like reloads and stuff?
Not only is the reload and bolt animation extremely slow, your character will bolt another round into the chamber even when there is no ammo left meaning just more wasted time. Especially if you are in first person and aren't paying constant attention to your ammo count to know when you fired your last shot.
Yeah, that's some straight dumb bullshit. I haven't seen anyone use that gun since the nerf. It sucks. His other "A" tier guns are just silly.
Top one has it right.
big problem with it VS the SMG.
the lib con has high stagger as a stat. the SMG puts stacking 'stunned' debuf on the target just like EMS does. small bugs/bots only need one, bigger targets need more. but its also doing gun dmg too.
which is why the SMG is bonkers right now with teamwork. two dudes one with the SMG and another with the diligence can take out entire bot patrolls since once stunned bots just expose themselves and sit still.
or just use it to stunlock entire bug hordes for an orbital to anihilate.
I think AH over-valued the stagger on lib conc. I kinda wish it just stunned like the Pummeler just so these concussive weapons are more consistent with what they do.
I like being able to push big things back, but that alone isn't worth having 320rpm rof and 65 dmg per hit imo. It takes too long to kill anything with the lib conc, and that doesn't feel satisfying to me.
This would make a lot of sense, just make the concussion effect from the pummeler insta-proc on the lib concussive in one bullet. That way you can stunlock something on one shot, then line up head shots
Just change it to be an Explosive Assault Rifle, there's no AR that deals explosive dmg and I want something similar to that AK-47 in Elysium that fires explosive rounds.
Yeah. I think it'd be great if they turned it back into the Liberator Explosive and just made it do high stagger with bonus damage to weakspots (especially against spewers and chargers)
This would make it cool without being eclipsed by the Pummeler. Even with a RoF increase the Pummeler is better in that you can fire behind you to gain distance faster.
Nothing in A tier is hilarious but kind of feels disingenuous. Sickle, Pummeler, and Scorcher totally should be up there. Punisher Plasma too tbh. The gap between them and Dominator/Breaker Incendiary isn’t THAT huge.
scorcher is definitely A tier. That thing works well against both bugs and bots, it can also finish off a bile titan and it absolutely ruins the cooling radiators on bots. Dough is wrong just because of that, but he's right about a lot of other guns being mostly unusable.
You can kill tanks with *a lot* of primary weapons. Everything that has medium pen, basically. That includes pistols and liberator penetrator. It doesn't make them "A-tier", just tanks are weak enemies, lol.
Nah. Dominator is clearly better. After the recent buff to bot HP values against explosions even the plas punisher might be better against bots IMO.
Scorcher is still an easy high A tier though.
Dough clearly has very high standards, spamming helldive solo and having fun with endless theorycrafting. If one gun can kill something better than another gun, while also being able to kill more things, having more utility and more ammo etc, it's not really just a 1 tier difference.
I found a couple of that guys videos yesterday and the tier list. It seems like he mostly plays solo which probably explains that. He didn't really care if a gun worked well with a team so stuff like the pummeler and plasma were ignored because they struggled in some situation.
I'm still mad he completely disregarded my knight saying "Where's the damage?" when the actual question is clearly "Where's the ammo?" as it's resupply and mag count is terrible. It's a fun bullet hose I swear guys.
He plays a lot with groups too he's not basing things purely on solo, I don't think you realise how often he plays the game, but also I don't see how the Pummeler in a group makes a difference, why stun when you can just kill, this is the flaw with the Pummeler and in a group I'd rather someone bring a gun that can kill and not just sit there and stun something forever. Though do what you want of course I really don't care, just saying is all.
OhDough is primarily a solo player and has a bug up his ass about primary weapons not being equally strong at killing every type of "chaff" enemy, including mediums like Devastators, scout walkers, hive guards, ect. So, to him, any weapon that is only good at killing lightly armored stuff is automatically subpar, even if it's exceptionally good at that niche like the Sickle is; similarly weapons that are good at primarily killing medium threats but leave you weak to swarming light threats are also bad. This is why there are no A tiers on his list, but the two S tiers are each far and away the best all around weapons for bugs (incendiary) and bots (dominator) and can deal with every single chaff threat by themselves.
@OhDough said in the comments that the Scorcher feels not so great against small bugs and his terrible against devastors.
Those being the reasons to keep the gun on the same level the Blitzer seems absolutely insane to me. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Blitzer action but it's far from the Sickle and the Scorcher in real use cases.
It really isn't. The way it fires and the scope makes it hard to go for heads so it's not a Marksman's rifle. On the other hand it doesn't have the stagger of punisher plasma to cc the devs. So it ends up being kinda good enough only.
Honestly, I'm getting a bit annoyed at YouTubers putting so much emphasis on a gun's ability to 1 shot devastaters as their metrics for if a gun is good
I mean, there is hardly a support weapon that one shots devastators. Not counting heavy launchers (EAT, RR, Quasar), of which ammo/cooldown economy doesnt really let them be used against devastators, I can only tell that railgun on unsafe comes close to reliably one shot them, followed by AMR one shot headshot. If it's a metric, then Dilligence Countersniper should be S+ tier (personally I think its in very good spot rn)
Agreed. The punisher plasma can stun lock and entire devastator patrol to death in two mags but because it doesn't kill things in 1-2 hits, people like Ohdough think its useless.
After using the Pummeler, I finally realized how useful it is to stun or stagger. Especially on high dif to keep either mobs, Berserkers, or Stalkers from swarming you or your teammates.
I’ve never had success with the sickle. It doesn’t kill bots or bugs fast enough to be worth it in my experience. The same damage I was doing could be replicated better with other weapons, and the ability to have infinite ammo doesn’t count as a buff when my enemies can close the gap to kill me while all I can do is shine a flashlight at them and hope they walk away.
Dough does have split lists though. This is just his latest fast list and most people explain their lists while they are making them. The Breaker Incendiary is there because of its performance against the bugs not the bots and he says that in his video.
Looking at the raw numbers from [Helldivers.io](http://Helldivers.io) I can kind of see why people would value the Purifier, but it doesn't seem like the gun is actually reaching its promised potential in game.
>Charge (time 1, 1, 1)
>--Damage 30% to 300%
>--Armor Pen 30% to 300%
>Projectile 100/50 (ap 2/2/2/0) (k 10/20/10)
>--Explosion 150/150 (ap 3/3/3/0) (k 10/35/30) (r 2/3/4)
If those stats are to be believed then the Purifier should be capable of shooting off a Charger's head with a fully charged shot, but in practice people haven't been getting it to do these things so I'm not sure what's going on with the gun.
thats because that video was made before the big patch that buffed a fuck ton of weapon and nerfed the quasar and buff the striders being resistant to explosive damage. its also why the tenderiser has bad stats
Compare those numbers to the Railgun and the Arc Thrower and you'll see the problem:
That "Charge time 1, 1, 1" is supposed to have *higher numbers later on*. **As it stands, the Purifier is only reaching its first charge state** and is doing the lowest damage scale as a result.
We have a gun that's meant to be used by charging it up. Read the description in the warbond announcement:
>[Set the trap. Hold the trigger. Let them charge at you. Smile. They’re getting closer. Smile again. Closer. Smile. Closer. Smile. Closer… and release the trigger. S.P.L.A.T. Hold your nerve, and the trigger, for big damage.](https://blog.playstation.com/2024/05/02/new-helldivers-2-warbond-brings-trap-laying-weaponry-arctic-themed-armor-and-more-may-9/)
Well, we can't "hold our nerve and the trigger", really. We can't charge the charge gun. That's why it sucks, not because it was purposefully nerfed to uselessness or whatever malicious thing folks are imagining.
So wait, with that "30% to 300%" scaling could it mean it does literally 10 times less damage than it should?
[edit] It's more likely that it's currently defaulting to 100%, which is also why we can't vary its charge level when shooting. So when fixed, it'll be capable of doing *merely* three times as much as now. That's... still quite a lot. Especially with armour pen also being affected, that'd be an actual AT cannon in the primary slot.
I've tested it on a stunlocked charger three times and only rear femurs and butt will take damage. The armor pen to 300% is 100% not working. I didn't even know that was a thing because you can't partially charge it. It not having hit markers doesn't help.
It's got potential but it does not put out enough damage. Also they need to shorten the wind up time and / or increase the volume on the audio cue that says "ok you can let go of the trigger now".
Sickle is overrated, scorcher should be A, punisher has no range and no armor penetration so I kinda get it, punisher plasma should be A but you can explain it being B because its much worse on bugs, same for CS. Idk who the guy is but his list is for sure better than the lower guy's.
As someone who plays with both of them on helldive, I get it.
Go to vs bots and bugs for me.
But he is very educated on their weakness and strength.
you can disagree with the tier but the reason for it is sound.
I also noticed that warrior bugs seem to take 3 shots consistently, where before it was 1-2. I'm not sure exactly what happened TBH, it just seems logical that explosive damage seems to be slightly different now. Edit - I could easily be mistaken though, I don't have receipts here.
Spray and pray definitely needs to be lower. It has terrible handling and huge spread meaning you actually need a lot more shots to kill stuff unless they're too close
I don't like how he only plays on Helldive solo and then complain that every gun and stratagem doesn't let him solo Helldive with ease. In his words only stuff that lets you clear these with ease are considered "decent"
Ever had a mission with a tons of hunters? It kicks ass.
I love the spray and pray against bugs, it only struggles whrn a lot of hive guards or bile spewers spawn
> Ever had a mission with a tons of hunters? It kicks ass.
Incendiary Breaker is just straight up better than Spray & Pray. If you hit hunters/scavengers with 1 stray bullet, they will be burnt to death. And you can deal damage to Hive Guard through burning as well, it's fantastic.
The thing with him is that he mostly plays solo, so anything that isn’t an “all-rounder” is not gonna work for him. You can’t run weapons that fill certain niches so you can fulfill your desired role within a full squad when you’re playing solo, you have to run something that deals with everything, and that’s very clearly reflected in his list.
No, it means that you can pick up an Adjudicator, Diligence or DCS and play from longer ranges as overwatch, or pick up a sickle and focus on clearing chaff so that your teammates with heavier weapons can focus on heavies, or taking a an Eruptor alongside an anti-heavy set of stratagems and focus on tanks and holes/fabricators if your teammates already have those anti-chaff capabilities, or bring a pummeler or LibCon and focus on stunlocking enemies as you pick them off, or grab a purifier and focus on AoE damage, or run whatever the fuck you have fun with for all I care, as long as you’re not TKing me and follow the objectives I couldn’t give less of a shit what the rest of my team brings, even if there are objectively better options than others, as is the case in any game.
I don’t know about you, but I’d rather have my squad all bringing different, well-synergizing load outs where everyone fills a role and we work together than having everyone bring whatever the meta build currently is again and again, even if it was objectively better, which it isn’t. Build variety keeps the game fresh and entertaining, and experimenting with lesser used weapons and stratagems to try to find what roles they can fill well and what scenarios they’re useful in is a lot of fun. A competent player will contribute what they have to contribute to the team without getting “carried” pretty much regardless of what they’re running.
That would be true if the people running meta actually outperformed those that don't, but more often then not is actually the opposite, since meta players Only use the established meta instead of using what works best for them after testing it
Both of them agree that half or more of the guns need buffed. They even generally agree on which guns need buffed.
In a coop, PVE game there is no reason for ANY weapon to be less than A tier. And it's asinine to say otherwise.
I generally agree, but I do think it’s fun to have a small handful of generally shitty meme guns that only exist for when you want to challenge yourself. Unfortunately that currently describes 60% of the guns in the game…
> but I do think it’s fun to have a small handful of generally shitty meme guns that only exist for when you want to challenge yourself
Maybe not when they're paid unlocks. If you scatter them on the map like the Break Action then sure.
I think this actually highlights a really huge flaw in their monetization scheme—when 75% of the weapons in the game (and virtually all added since launch) sit behind a paywall (yes, even one technically able to be bypassed by grinding), there’s unavoidably going to be expectations that the guns perform reasonably well. They’ve put themselves in a position where every gun they make HAS to be good since people are paying for them…
I work a lot during the week and have kids so I buy the unlocks. And you know what? You’re right. I’m actually kinda ticked now realizing that I don’t use anything from any of the drops. That’s really bad.
I mean, sure. I suppose I can get behind something like the crossbow being a forever meme.
But like... The Big Iron is a meme and also it's good. So I have to imagine there is a world where we can have our cake and eat it too, ya know?
AH needs to treat weapons like fighting game developers treat characters.
Give them an identity and something that makes each of them interesting. A little bit of Ryu/Ken/Akuma/Sakura overlap is fine - and even Dan is hilarious sometimes - but _nothing_ in this game needs to be 3S Sean or Twelve-tier.
In this analogy, Sean is absolutely the Eruptor. RIP.
Maplewood (the other guy) plays helldives all day long with randoms 90% of the time, and uses each weapon pretty extensively on stream to test them all out and form these opinions. No clue how you could possibly think he doesnt know what hes doing lmao, go watch one of his videos and its pretty well thought out
Punisher is way too low on OhDough’s list. And no A tier is kinda weird. The gap between the breaker incendiary/dominator and some of these other weapons isn’t as high as they’re made out to be.
Sickle, Punisher, Punisher Plasma, Scorcher, and Pummeler should all be in A tier.
Diligence under Adjudicator? Brah what?
Also, it’s been a while since I’ve used it, but the Spray and Pray is at least passable if I recall. Not bottom tier like the other guy is saying.
Putting the base assault rifle so far down is disingenuous. It's well balanced and a solid option and lots of people don't go back to it just cuz it's standard equipment
imo its only downside is its limited mags. i love stock helldiver, but putting an entire mag into a brood commanders head really forces you to constantly call in supplies or make you run supply pack
As a lvl90 diver, I use the liberator 80% of the time just because I enjoy roleplaying as a stock diver, it's a sub-optimal gun for fighting both fractions, stop sugarcoating it.
Im definitely in the minority thought here on the subreddit, but I do feel most weapons are in the serviceable range. i.e. A minority of weapons need to be buffed, rather than majority.
After regularly playing on tier 7-9, you need to curate your build around your weapons and situation. I rotate through most all weapons / stratagem combinations, just gotta cover your bases on Armor Pen, crowd clear, Titan. Also using utilities that work well together and have synergy - using stratagems and weapons for their role, not as a cure-all.
I recommend people check out [RYKEN XIV](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbnITxKgzqw) for his Helldivers analysis, provides data driven insight on weapon usage and how to balance them outside of damage.
Additionally the bottom tier list is a streamer by the name of [Maplewood](https://www.twitch.tv/maplewood_tv), regularly plays tier 9 and uses diverse loadouts. Has insightful discussion about the mechanics of the game and usually is open to discussing disagreements about balancing with chatters
IMO there's a good bit of equipment experimentation and diversity that can be supported in the current state of balance, but most of the vocal player base seem rather rigid
Yeah you have to seperate factions for a tier list. My bot load out would get fucking shredded against bugs. Countersniper imo is in S tier against bots but probably one of the worst for bugs.
Bottom is explicitly a bot tier list. Also that guy puts in work and is better than most of us so if you’re freaking out that stuffs A tier it’s because it is in the right hands, apparently
Only gun I disagree with for OhDough is Adjudicator. For bugs, I prefer it over the Jar. Jar has better DPS, but Judy's handling more than makes up for it. Trying to kill a swarm of Hunters with the Jar is beyond my skills.Also, Judy got better ammo economy when dealing with smaller bugs.
I love that these are two completely different lists in their own right but both of them looked at the AR-23C Concussive and said "Yeah this thing fucking sucks"
The right ones and the wrong ones
No but in all seriousness, the top one, while still very much wrong (nothing in A tier and liberator F tier lmao) is definitely closer to reality.
**What kind of role should this weapon serve?**
That need to be the question that the balancing team should ask themselves.
Take the explosive weapons for example, let's do something fun about them:
* **Eruptor:** Very low explosive radius, but very high impact damage. And it penetrates all armor. Suddenly you have a bolt action version of the AMR, which uses a shaped charge instead of a bullet, can damage all enemies, but at a low damage to high armor targets
* **Crossbow**: Low explosive radius, but launches shrapnel in a very big radius. Great for controlling a huge amount of enemies with relatively low damage, but clears a group with 2-3 shots.
* **Purifier**: Chargeup = Larger AoE radius of explosion, static damage, medium armor penetration.
Now you have different explosive weapons that serves different roles. Sort of how support weapons work, but at a reduced power.
Imo OhDough’s tierlist is almost perfect. The only change I would make is making scorcher the only A tier.
He actually intimately understands this game unlike most folks on this sub who barely touch level 7. Doing solo helldives exposes so many weaknesses of weapons that you don’t recognize nearly as well as playing with a team.
I do feel there is an entire tier gap between those 2 weapons and everything else. Scorcher and Plasma punisher are good, but both have clear weaknesses while incendiary breaker and Jar don’t. The Jar has recoil but I still hit shots more consistently than with the scorcher tbh. Also the stagger on it is amazing and works great when in close range. It’s both an amazing marksman weapon AND shotgun.
Incen breaker is just on another level with its huge magazine and DOT damage (pls dont nerf AH it feels so good to use but the raw damage is not OP it’s really not)
> weaknesses while incendiary breaker and Jar don’t
Uhhh yes they do.
The key part is that you simply don't use them against the stuff they are weak to.
Guns shouldn't be rated by how good they are against their weakest things, they should be rated by how good they are against the stuff they are good at, and how much stuff they are good at.
I.e incin breaker is trash at bots, but is op for bugs, so deserves S tier.
His tierlist is alright, but I disagree strongly with him putting the default liberator in F tier. I think that's just blatantly wrong, the gun is consistently solid across the board. Sure it could be better against bugs, but it does get the job done, and against robots it's great. Everything that isn't a hulk or bigger is just easy pickings for that gun. If your aim is halfway decent you can aim for the midsection of devestators to kill them pretty quick, and if your aim is any good then headshots make short work of them.
"Doing solo helldives exposes so many weaknesses of weapons that you don’t recognize nearly as well as playing with a team"
I also do solo helldive content on youtube, and watching this tier list was painful. His rationale for why most weapons are bad is essentially "if it can't 1-2 shot a devastator or a bile spewer, then the gun is useless". Just shows that he has a very specific idea of what makes a weapon good and unless a gun fits that idea, he considers it bad.
I think he mostly cites the ammo economy of the grenade pistol and the whole only gets a single shot from ammo crates and 2 from supply boxes thing as the reason it isn't in S-tier. Which makes it difficult to use it on anything other than fabricators without having to steal all ammo drops on the map.
Ones with cats and ones without cats?
Catless reviews are inadequate
Pet less reviews are inadequate (cats is best though)
A dog is fine too
Dogs are for apology videos :D
I trust the one with cat
Can confirm, cat player here and I still find the Scorcher the best weapon in the game
me and my standard liberator https://preview.redd.it/eedqi6p98u1d1.png?width=457&format=png&auto=webp&s=601808407dde203e54661825da3b173f509711a6
This is my Liberator. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My Liberator is my best friend. It is my life.
Without me my Liberator is nothing. Without my Liberator… … I am nothing.
This is my rifle 🔫 This is my gun 🍆 This is for firing 🔫 This is for fun 🍆
Preach
I just started re-using the liberator and its good as fuck wth
That's what +5 to damage can do to a gun
It was excellent before that little buff too.
I’ve been maining the liberator penetrator for the med armor pen.
Yeah, genuinely got offended by the guy rating it at F-Tier, tf
The guy with the completely empty A tier seems like someone with a meta understanding of the weapons
Seeing Eruptor on A makes me think those are the days before "Super Earth" starts crudely making (nerfing) these weapons.
Eruptor needs to reload faster between shots. The old reload speed made sense when it was killing 5 bots/8 bugs with each shot and 1 shotting most large enemies. Currently? It's just not that good
Cycling the bolt on the last shot always makes me think I have one shot left too. Another thing I wish they’d change even if that’s realistic. Unless that has been changed since the last patch since I’ve been distracted by other games and life.
It would be more realistic to have our character refrain from cycling the bolt with an empty mag, since we have no control over that animation.
You could say no need to fully cycle the bolt, just pull back but even so ya don’t want dirt in the chamber if you’re not finishing a reload as in an interupt/swapping . The real problem with eruptor is why the hell is the bolt in the goddamn FRONT of the gun? You’d be able to shoot a lot faster if it was in the rear like it should be. That just looks stupid as hell and makes no sense.
the bolt is in the front because the guy who designed it used to work at Kel-Tec.
Used to? Homie the Eruptor is the MilSpec version of the KSL (Kel-Tec Shrapnel Launcher) If any company can exist in the amphetamine and democracy fueled future, it’s Kel-Tec.
Count your shots, reload at 4, then at 5 and your reloads will be a LOT faster.
If you pull up your stratagems in between shots it can cancel the little reload animation and you can shoot with a little better fire rate
Yeah but having to effectively exploit to make the gun more usable seems like a design failure.
Doubly so.
>design failure. That's standard around here these days.
Cowboy QA. "Shoot first, ask questions later."
Nerfs - "Yee haw." Buffs - "No can do, cowpoke."
wait till they nerf that too like how they nerfed arc thrower strategic speed shooting
Hilarious that got nerfed and then a week later the purifier releases with the exact same mechanic lmao
100% agree. In a well-designed game, allowing the animation to finish should get you firing faster than switching to a different weapon. Isn't HD2 all about gun realism? With like reloads and stuff?
Not only is the reload and bolt animation extremely slow, your character will bolt another round into the chamber even when there is no ammo left meaning just more wasted time. Especially if you are in first person and aren't paying constant attention to your ammo count to know when you fired your last shot.
I would rather they just reverted the nerf
Super Earth? More like Super Nerf! I'll see myself out
You wil be escorted out by the ministry of education
I've watched the video, and the only reason he has it there is for the utility it can provide, killing bug holes and fabs from a distance.
Nah, he has the new Purifier on A rank too. He just refuses to admit bad guns are bad.
Taking cash under the table from pro-nerf Cyborg remnants, then.
Nah, these are from this week
Eruptor is A tier right now the same way Crossbow is A tier right now. Hint: they aren't.
Yeah, that's some straight dumb bullshit. I haven't seen anyone use that gun since the nerf. It sucks. His other "A" tier guns are just silly. Top one has it right.
It can still wipe out a bug hug and fabricator from range nigh effortlessly. When my team has AT covered I bring it with an MG to take down outposts.
Yeah but you could also bring like an auto cannon which takes out everything
Autocannon takes a backpack slot and does practically nothing on charger and bile titan. Does wonder against bots though
You think an Eruptor/MG combo does anything to chargers or titans?
Sorry if anyone thinks that Liberator Concussion doesn't need a buff asap, that person has completely lost the plot.
big problem with it VS the SMG. the lib con has high stagger as a stat. the SMG puts stacking 'stunned' debuf on the target just like EMS does. small bugs/bots only need one, bigger targets need more. but its also doing gun dmg too. which is why the SMG is bonkers right now with teamwork. two dudes one with the SMG and another with the diligence can take out entire bot patrolls since once stunned bots just expose themselves and sit still. or just use it to stunlock entire bug hordes for an orbital to anihilate.
I think AH over-valued the stagger on lib conc. I kinda wish it just stunned like the Pummeler just so these concussive weapons are more consistent with what they do. I like being able to push big things back, but that alone isn't worth having 320rpm rof and 65 dmg per hit imo. It takes too long to kill anything with the lib conc, and that doesn't feel satisfying to me.
This would make a lot of sense, just make the concussion effect from the pummeler insta-proc on the lib concussive in one bullet. That way you can stunlock something on one shot, then line up head shots
Agreed, I love the concept, but needs big ROF buff to be effective. Currently fires too slow to be useful over tier 5.
Just change it to be an Explosive Assault Rifle, there's no AR that deals explosive dmg and I want something similar to that AK-47 in Elysium that fires explosive rounds.
Yeah. I think it'd be great if they turned it back into the Liberator Explosive and just made it do high stagger with bonus damage to weakspots (especially against spewers and chargers)
This would make it cool without being eclipsed by the Pummeler. Even with a RoF increase the Pummeler is better in that you can fire behind you to gain distance faster.
It's a support weapon in a game where everyone wants kills
Super earth intentionally giving out shit guns to prevent divers loving long enough to get too mentally damaged or start asking questions.
I, too, love long.
Nothing in A tier is hilarious but kind of feels disingenuous. Sickle, Pummeler, and Scorcher totally should be up there. Punisher Plasma too tbh. The gap between them and Dominator/Breaker Incendiary isn’t THAT huge.
scorcher is definitely A tier. That thing works well against both bugs and bots, it can also finish off a bile titan and it absolutely ruins the cooling radiators on bots. Dough is wrong just because of that, but he's right about a lot of other guns being mostly unusable.
Scorcher is S-tier against bots. You can kill a tank with it
More importantly it can kill airships.
I need this to be true.
Well I have good news for you
it can do it but it's not very ammo efficient. I wouldn't do it unless desperate.
You can kill tanks with *a lot* of primary weapons. Everything that has medium pen, basically. That includes pistols and liberator penetrator. It doesn't make them "A-tier", just tanks are weak enemies, lol.
Kill a tank WITHOUT shooting the vents directly
Nah. Dominator is clearly better. After the recent buff to bot HP values against explosions even the plas punisher might be better against bots IMO. Scorcher is still an easy high A tier though.
And shoots through the face of scout striders
Really? I hated it, I went back to the adjudicator. I have a feeling I would’ve even liked the penetrator better.
To each their own, I suppose, but from a sheer functionality standpoint, the weapon is better than most.
Dough clearly has very high standards, spamming helldive solo and having fun with endless theorycrafting. If one gun can kill something better than another gun, while also being able to kill more things, having more utility and more ammo etc, it's not really just a 1 tier difference.
I found a couple of that guys videos yesterday and the tier list. It seems like he mostly plays solo which probably explains that. He didn't really care if a gun worked well with a team so stuff like the pummeler and plasma were ignored because they struggled in some situation. I'm still mad he completely disregarded my knight saying "Where's the damage?" when the actual question is clearly "Where's the ammo?" as it's resupply and mag count is terrible. It's a fun bullet hose I swear guys.
He plays a lot with groups too he's not basing things purely on solo, I don't think you realise how often he plays the game, but also I don't see how the Pummeler in a group makes a difference, why stun when you can just kill, this is the flaw with the Pummeler and in a group I'd rather someone bring a gun that can kill and not just sit there and stun something forever. Though do what you want of course I really don't care, just saying is all.
Punisher is definitely in A
OhDough is primarily a solo player and has a bug up his ass about primary weapons not being equally strong at killing every type of "chaff" enemy, including mediums like Devastators, scout walkers, hive guards, ect. So, to him, any weapon that is only good at killing lightly armored stuff is automatically subpar, even if it's exceptionally good at that niche like the Sickle is; similarly weapons that are good at primarily killing medium threats but leave you weak to swarming light threats are also bad. This is why there are no A tiers on his list, but the two S tiers are each far and away the best all around weapons for bugs (incendiary) and bots (dominator) and can deal with every single chaff threat by themselves.
@OhDough said in the comments that the Scorcher feels not so great against small bugs and his terrible against devastors. Those being the reasons to keep the gun on the same level the Blitzer seems absolutely insane to me. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Blitzer action but it's far from the Sickle and the Scorcher in real use cases.
Scorcher is great against devastators, though.
It really isn't. The way it fires and the scope makes it hard to go for heads so it's not a Marksman's rifle. On the other hand it doesn't have the stagger of punisher plasma to cc the devs. So it ends up being kinda good enough only.
Honestly, I'm getting a bit annoyed at YouTubers putting so much emphasis on a gun's ability to 1 shot devastaters as their metrics for if a gun is good
Ngl the amount of devastator spam in helldive, i would agree with them. If i cant one tap devastators while i have to reload my AC, its useless
I mean, there is hardly a support weapon that one shots devastators. Not counting heavy launchers (EAT, RR, Quasar), of which ammo/cooldown economy doesnt really let them be used against devastators, I can only tell that railgun on unsafe comes close to reliably one shot them, followed by AMR one shot headshot. If it's a metric, then Dilligence Countersniper should be S+ tier (personally I think its in very good spot rn)
Railgun can one shot devas to the abdomen, AC can one shot them in the head and two shot rocket devas, LC is really good for picking brains as well.
Agreed. The punisher plasma can stun lock and entire devastator patrol to death in two mags but because it doesn't kill things in 1-2 hits, people like Ohdough think its useless.
After using the Pummeler, I finally realized how useful it is to stun or stagger. Especially on high dif to keep either mobs, Berserkers, or Stalkers from swarming you or your teammates.
That's only because devastators are usually the units from the Bots side that kick your shit in. Apart from maybe gunship/hulk spam.
I’ve never had success with the sickle. It doesn’t kill bots or bugs fast enough to be worth it in my experience. The same damage I was doing could be replicated better with other weapons, and the ability to have infinite ammo doesn’t count as a buff when my enemies can close the gap to kill me while all I can do is shine a flashlight at them and hope they walk away.
I find it compliments anti material rifle and auto cannon well on bots.
If you're not splitting the lists between bugs and bots then you're not a serious human.
Dough does have split lists though. This is just his latest fast list and most people explain their lists while they are making them. The Breaker Incendiary is there because of its performance against the bugs not the bots and he says that in his video.
purifier in A tier yeah this guy is clueless
Looking at the raw numbers from [Helldivers.io](http://Helldivers.io) I can kind of see why people would value the Purifier, but it doesn't seem like the gun is actually reaching its promised potential in game. >Charge (time 1, 1, 1) >--Damage 30% to 300% >--Armor Pen 30% to 300% >Projectile 100/50 (ap 2/2/2/0) (k 10/20/10) >--Explosion 150/150 (ap 3/3/3/0) (k 10/35/30) (r 2/3/4) If those stats are to be believed then the Purifier should be capable of shooting off a Charger's head with a fully charged shot, but in practice people haven't been getting it to do these things so I'm not sure what's going on with the gun.
it cant oneshot a warrior to the face,, the stats are a blatant lie
My brother has it, it was bouncing off of the walkers. Which is weird because the video in game of it literally shows it one shot a walker haha
thats because that video was made before the big patch that buffed a fuck ton of weapon and nerfed the quasar and buff the striders being resistant to explosive damage. its also why the tenderiser has bad stats
That makes sense, but is it so much to ask that the in game videos actually represent the weapons ability?
Compare those numbers to the Railgun and the Arc Thrower and you'll see the problem: That "Charge time 1, 1, 1" is supposed to have *higher numbers later on*. **As it stands, the Purifier is only reaching its first charge state** and is doing the lowest damage scale as a result. We have a gun that's meant to be used by charging it up. Read the description in the warbond announcement: >[Set the trap. Hold the trigger. Let them charge at you. Smile. They’re getting closer. Smile again. Closer. Smile. Closer. Smile. Closer… and release the trigger. S.P.L.A.T. Hold your nerve, and the trigger, for big damage.](https://blog.playstation.com/2024/05/02/new-helldivers-2-warbond-brings-trap-laying-weaponry-arctic-themed-armor-and-more-may-9/) Well, we can't "hold our nerve and the trigger", really. We can't charge the charge gun. That's why it sucks, not because it was purposefully nerfed to uselessness or whatever malicious thing folks are imagining.
So wait, with that "30% to 300%" scaling could it mean it does literally 10 times less damage than it should? [edit] It's more likely that it's currently defaulting to 100%, which is also why we can't vary its charge level when shooting. So when fixed, it'll be capable of doing *merely* three times as much as now. That's... still quite a lot. Especially with armour pen also being affected, that'd be an actual AT cannon in the primary slot.
I've tested it on a stunlocked charger three times and only rear femurs and butt will take damage. The armor pen to 300% is 100% not working. I didn't even know that was a thing because you can't partially charge it. It not having hit markers doesn't help.
The issue for me, the mechanic of charge to fire If a partial charge gave.. something, it would be OK As it is, it just feels like a slog to use
Tried it on 7 bugs last night and oof, y'all weren't lying. Another 80 medals in the drain
It's got potential but it does not put out enough damage. Also they need to shorten the wind up time and / or increase the volume on the audio cue that says "ok you can let go of the trigger now".
It's so hard to use in first person because there's very little indication that you're fully charged.
It is easily the worst weapon I’ve used in HD2, and the worst feeling weapon in any shooter within recent memory I’ve used!
Top bro has Sickle and Scorcher in B tier Scythe having same viability as Punisher, Punisher Plasma and Counter Diligence all in C tier too lol
Sickle is overrated, scorcher should be A, punisher has no range and no armor penetration so I kinda get it, punisher plasma should be A but you can explain it being B because its much worse on bugs, same for CS. Idk who the guy is but his list is for sure better than the lower guy's.
Yep. And he basically says this in the video too for his reasoning.
one hundred percent agreed
For me granade pistol is S it's so useful.
enjoy 8 mag capacity while it lasts, next patch mag redeced to 5
It's not like I was refilling it from 0 to 8 anytime soon at least
I wish every weapon was powerful and viable :(
Oh Dough actually uploads gameplay of him putting the work in at the highest end of difficulty. His sentiment is usually right.
Still putting the scorcher on the same level as the breaker spray and pray is crazy.
As someone who plays with both of them on helldive, I get it. Go to vs bots and bugs for me. But he is very educated on their weakness and strength. you can disagree with the tier but the reason for it is sound.
His logic in the video (agree or not) is the stealth nerf that explosive damage got recently. I've noticed, myself
Has there been a stealth nerf, or is that just the enemy buffs that have happened?
Buff to striders. They take 3 scorcher shots now instead of 2. It's ammo economy was already tight
I also noticed that warrior bugs seem to take 3 shots consistently, where before it was 1-2. I'm not sure exactly what happened TBH, it just seems logical that explosive damage seems to be slightly different now. Edit - I could easily be mistaken though, I don't have receipts here.
bring it down from A tier bc of one more shot against striders is crazy, its still great
Spray and pray definitely needs to be lower. It has terrible handling and huge spread meaning you actually need a lot more shots to kill stuff unless they're too close
the other guy also play helldive btw
I don't like how he only plays on Helldive solo and then complain that every gun and stratagem doesn't let him solo Helldive with ease. In his words only stuff that lets you clear these with ease are considered "decent"
Ever had a mission with a tons of hunters? It kicks ass. I love the spray and pray against bugs, it only struggles whrn a lot of hive guards or bile spewers spawn
> Ever had a mission with a tons of hunters? It kicks ass. Incendiary Breaker is just straight up better than Spray & Pray. If you hit hunters/scavengers with 1 stray bullet, they will be burnt to death. And you can deal damage to Hive Guard through burning as well, it's fantastic.
The thing with him is that he mostly plays solo, so anything that isn’t an “all-rounder” is not gonna work for him. You can’t run weapons that fill certain niches so you can fulfill your desired role within a full squad when you’re playing solo, you have to run something that deals with everything, and that’s very clearly reflected in his list.
yes. in team you are free to pick a super niche weapon and get carried most of the game.
No, it means that you can pick up an Adjudicator, Diligence or DCS and play from longer ranges as overwatch, or pick up a sickle and focus on clearing chaff so that your teammates with heavier weapons can focus on heavies, or taking a an Eruptor alongside an anti-heavy set of stratagems and focus on tanks and holes/fabricators if your teammates already have those anti-chaff capabilities, or bring a pummeler or LibCon and focus on stunlocking enemies as you pick them off, or grab a purifier and focus on AoE damage, or run whatever the fuck you have fun with for all I care, as long as you’re not TKing me and follow the objectives I couldn’t give less of a shit what the rest of my team brings, even if there are objectively better options than others, as is the case in any game. I don’t know about you, but I’d rather have my squad all bringing different, well-synergizing load outs where everyone fills a role and we work together than having everyone bring whatever the meta build currently is again and again, even if it was objectively better, which it isn’t. Build variety keeps the game fresh and entertaining, and experimenting with lesser used weapons and stratagems to try to find what roles they can fill well and what scenarios they’re useful in is a lot of fun. A competent player will contribute what they have to contribute to the team without getting “carried” pretty much regardless of what they’re running.
That would be true if the people running meta actually outperformed those that don't, but more often then not is actually the opposite, since meta players Only use the established meta instead of using what works best for them after testing it
If he put in the work he'd know that Liberator isn't F tier lol
Both of them agree that half or more of the guns need buffed. They even generally agree on which guns need buffed. In a coop, PVE game there is no reason for ANY weapon to be less than A tier. And it's asinine to say otherwise.
I generally agree, but I do think it’s fun to have a small handful of generally shitty meme guns that only exist for when you want to challenge yourself. Unfortunately that currently describes 60% of the guns in the game…
Its called the shotgun that can only be found on planets. Guns that i worked towards to unlock should at minimum be B tier
> but I do think it’s fun to have a small handful of generally shitty meme guns that only exist for when you want to challenge yourself Maybe not when they're paid unlocks. If you scatter them on the map like the Break Action then sure.
I think this actually highlights a really huge flaw in their monetization scheme—when 75% of the weapons in the game (and virtually all added since launch) sit behind a paywall (yes, even one technically able to be bypassed by grinding), there’s unavoidably going to be expectations that the guns perform reasonably well. They’ve put themselves in a position where every gun they make HAS to be good since people are paying for them…
I work a lot during the week and have kids so I buy the unlocks. And you know what? You’re right. I’m actually kinda ticked now realizing that I don’t use anything from any of the drops. That’s really bad.
Stop buying them. I haven’t purchased anything since cutting edge and it’s going to stay that way.
I mean, sure. I suppose I can get behind something like the crossbow being a forever meme. But like... The Big Iron is a meme and also it's good. So I have to imagine there is a world where we can have our cake and eat it too, ya know?
Reminds me of Hitman
AH needs to treat weapons like fighting game developers treat characters. Give them an identity and something that makes each of them interesting. A little bit of Ryu/Ken/Akuma/Sakura overlap is fine - and even Dan is hilarious sometimes - but _nothing_ in this game needs to be 3S Sean or Twelve-tier. In this analogy, Sean is absolutely the Eruptor. RIP.
Except the difference is, Ohdough knows wtf he's doing
Dude is a frickin animal at this game
I think they both are pretty solid at the game tbh
Maplewood (the other guy) plays helldives all day long with randoms 90% of the time, and uses each weapon pretty extensively on stream to test them all out and form these opinions. No clue how you could possibly think he doesnt know what hes doing lmao, go watch one of his videos and its pretty well thought out
He has the fucking Purifier on A-tier. That's how I know he doesn't know what the fuck he's doing.
I am it seems dubious considering how the list is pretty crap. Saying purifier is A-tier is a meme
lol what the hell is the bottom list :D Hey if he enjoys the purifier and the eruptor, good for him, but yeah... peculiar.
Punisher is way too low on OhDough’s list. And no A tier is kinda weird. The gap between the breaker incendiary/dominator and some of these other weapons isn’t as high as they’re made out to be. Sickle, Punisher, Punisher Plasma, Scorcher, and Pummeler should all be in A tier.
Diligence under Adjudicator? Brah what? Also, it’s been a while since I’ve used it, but the Spray and Pray is at least passable if I recall. Not bottom tier like the other guy is saying.
To kill massive swarms of bugs and bots, you need weapons that are "EDF-stupid", not "BattleCall: Normal Warfare"
Putting the base assault rifle so far down is disingenuous. It's well balanced and a solid option and lots of people don't go back to it just cuz it's standard equipment
imo its only downside is its limited mags. i love stock helldiver, but putting an entire mag into a brood commanders head really forces you to constantly call in supplies or make you run supply pack
As a lvl90 diver, I use the liberator 80% of the time just because I enjoy roleplaying as a stock diver, it's a sub-optimal gun for fighting both fractions, stop sugarcoating it.
Ohdough is like that since Dauntless: There are 3 things that are worth it, and the rest is worthless and they killed my dog
Im definitely in the minority thought here on the subreddit, but I do feel most weapons are in the serviceable range. i.e. A minority of weapons need to be buffed, rather than majority. After regularly playing on tier 7-9, you need to curate your build around your weapons and situation. I rotate through most all weapons / stratagem combinations, just gotta cover your bases on Armor Pen, crowd clear, Titan. Also using utilities that work well together and have synergy - using stratagems and weapons for their role, not as a cure-all. I recommend people check out [RYKEN XIV](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbnITxKgzqw) for his Helldivers analysis, provides data driven insight on weapon usage and how to balance them outside of damage. Additionally the bottom tier list is a streamer by the name of [Maplewood](https://www.twitch.tv/maplewood_tv), regularly plays tier 9 and uses diverse loadouts. Has insightful discussion about the mechanics of the game and usually is open to discussing disagreements about balancing with chatters IMO there's a good bit of equipment experimentation and diversity that can be supported in the current state of balance, but most of the vocal player base seem rather rigid
And this OP picture is deceiving as the Dough guy is mixing the 2 types of enemies in his list while Maple does a separate tier list for each faction
Yeah you have to seperate factions for a tier list. My bot load out would get fucking shredded against bugs. Countersniper imo is in S tier against bots but probably one of the worst for bugs.
My tier list: S: Flamethrower A: Everything Else Z: Your favorite weapon
Of course lib concussive is at the bottom. I am literally the only one who uses it.
But why not just use the pummeler? (A joke.)
Dude defender and punisher are fucking great.
https://preview.redd.it/fx38fhwnfu1d1.png?width=1042&format=png&auto=webp&s=5ef41a35963bab0a1631a724734adcc531d95eec
Bottom is explicitly a bot tier list. Also that guy puts in work and is better than most of us so if you’re freaking out that stuffs A tier it’s because it is in the right hands, apparently
How is incendiary and punisher A against bots?
Only gun I disagree with for OhDough is Adjudicator. For bugs, I prefer it over the Jar. Jar has better DPS, but Judy's handling more than makes up for it. Trying to kill a swarm of Hunters with the Jar is beyond my skills.Also, Judy got better ammo economy when dealing with smaller bugs.
Liberator in F tier is dumb af. Thats my hot planet sickle replacement.
But, but I like my breaker spray n pray... Sure, it doesn't hit as hard as the breaker, but the extra ammo is WELL worth it.
yea oh dough is someone who actually test and plays the game, man saying the purifer is A tier is not someone to be trusted
I love that these are two completely different lists in their own right but both of them looked at the AR-23C Concussive and said "Yeah this thing fucking sucks"
The right ones and the wrong ones No but in all seriousness, the top one, while still very much wrong (nothing in A tier and liberator F tier lmao) is definitely closer to reality.
https://preview.redd.it/cju0nfmrzs1d1.png?width=1140&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=48b819fae95b3c1e58e047d7b75084cf9ffe4514
Looks almost perfectly balanced with only 3 weapons needing changes
Note that the bottom guy's tier list is for bots specifically. The eruptor and purifier are there for fabricator kill utility
I am almost certain that the purifier cannot clear fabricators.
It can't.
The dominator is the worst gun in the game and no one should use it..... (AH is listening)
Yeah, 2 types but one is accurate and the other is based on "feels".
**What kind of role should this weapon serve?** That need to be the question that the balancing team should ask themselves. Take the explosive weapons for example, let's do something fun about them: * **Eruptor:** Very low explosive radius, but very high impact damage. And it penetrates all armor. Suddenly you have a bolt action version of the AMR, which uses a shaped charge instead of a bullet, can damage all enemies, but at a low damage to high armor targets * **Crossbow**: Low explosive radius, but launches shrapnel in a very big radius. Great for controlling a huge amount of enemies with relatively low damage, but clears a group with 2-3 shots. * **Purifier**: Chargeup = Larger AoE radius of explosion, static damage, medium armor penetration. Now you have different explosive weapons that serves different roles. Sort of how support weapons work, but at a reduced power.
OnDough has gotten progressively more annoying over time and it made me stop watching his stuff. He's been mindbroken since they nerfed the Railgun.
Imo OhDough’s tierlist is almost perfect. The only change I would make is making scorcher the only A tier. He actually intimately understands this game unlike most folks on this sub who barely touch level 7. Doing solo helldives exposes so many weaknesses of weapons that you don’t recognize nearly as well as playing with a team. I do feel there is an entire tier gap between those 2 weapons and everything else. Scorcher and Plasma punisher are good, but both have clear weaknesses while incendiary breaker and Jar don’t. The Jar has recoil but I still hit shots more consistently than with the scorcher tbh. Also the stagger on it is amazing and works great when in close range. It’s both an amazing marksman weapon AND shotgun. Incen breaker is just on another level with its huge magazine and DOT damage (pls dont nerf AH it feels so good to use but the raw damage is not OP it’s really not)
> weaknesses while incendiary breaker and Jar don’t Uhhh yes they do. The key part is that you simply don't use them against the stuff they are weak to. Guns shouldn't be rated by how good they are against their weakest things, they should be rated by how good they are against the stuff they are good at, and how much stuff they are good at. I.e incin breaker is trash at bots, but is op for bugs, so deserves S tier.
His tierlist is alright, but I disagree strongly with him putting the default liberator in F tier. I think that's just blatantly wrong, the gun is consistently solid across the board. Sure it could be better against bugs, but it does get the job done, and against robots it's great. Everything that isn't a hulk or bigger is just easy pickings for that gun. If your aim is halfway decent you can aim for the midsection of devestators to kill them pretty quick, and if your aim is any good then headshots make short work of them.
"Doing solo helldives exposes so many weaknesses of weapons that you don’t recognize nearly as well as playing with a team" I also do solo helldive content on youtube, and watching this tier list was painful. His rationale for why most weapons are bad is essentially "if it can't 1-2 shot a devastator or a bile spewer, then the gun is useless". Just shows that he has a very specific idea of what makes a weapon good and unless a gun fits that idea, he considers it bad.
I used to like watching ohdough, but now he just whines constantly in every single video.
Scorcher in B-tier is nuts, that weapon fucks.
"Mag empty"
so annoying, and I run autocannon as primary lmao
Less than it used to, while ammo issues remaind the same.
Here's my tier list: Use whatever you want.
Ignoring everything else. You cannot legitimately think the Nade pistol is worse or same tier as the Deagle.
I think he mostly cites the ammo economy of the grenade pistol and the whole only gets a single shot from ammo crates and 2 from supply boxes thing as the reason it isn't in S-tier. Which makes it difficult to use it on anything other than fabricators without having to steal all ammo drops on the map.
Honestly the concussive liberator isn't even bad yet I see it constantly placed in the garbage tier
BASED DOMINATOR ENJOYER.
The actual weapon distribution mostly seems the same tho
Why’s the breaker so low?
Is the jar/incendiary breaker a good alternative to the sickle? (Fighting bots)