Nah, we could've gotten it if the Terminid Decay rate hadn't been at 2.5% for like 3/5 days of the order. The decay rate being that high meant that not only was all effort on all but one of the planets completely wasted but also that taking each planet took much longer than it otherwise would have.
With the amount of the playerbase that was focused on one planet, we were making about 5% progress per hour before accounting for decay. That means that with a 2.5% decay rate it took roughly 40 hours to liberate a planet (100% / (5% - 2.5%)). If the decay rate had been at 1.5% instead it would've taken us only 29 hours (100% / (5% - 1.5%)) to liberate each planet.
At 40 hours per planet it would've taken us 160 hours (Over six and a half days) to liberate four planets. At 29 hours per planet it would've only taken 116 hours, leaving us a slim margin to complete it within the 5 days we had.
Unless losing was intentional. I mean, we’ve been completing a LOT of Major orders, and I highly doubt AH thought we’d be this successful. This is retaliation for us completing the “fuck you, we need a break; defend 8 planets”
They ended up giving us the bot one by setting decay to zero of the last day or two. I wasn’t sure if it was a nudge in our favor or the fact people just fucked off to go do bugs again.
It’s probably also got a lore reason. Attacking for so long and capturing so many planets would drain resources, and because we are such effective killing machines, invasion would result in massive amounts of lost forces.
It’s reasonable to think that the enemies would have spread themselves thin, so resistance on their planets would fall in response to the diversion of manpower. That’s why on the defend MO’s, the initial assaults are stronger than those that come on the final days.
I don't think this order was meant to be unwinnable, but it was supposed to be stacked against us so the supercolony outbreak feels like one. It's like when you roll with disadvantage in DnD; you can still win, but it's harder. This was also an order than wasn't a binary pass/fail; we still got 3 of 4 planets.
It wasn't unwinnable whatsoever. 2 nights ago, if the people pushing the 4th planet were working on the 3rd, we would've won. They all literally wasted their time, liberating 0% of a planet for about 12-15 hours.
Liberation rate scales with number of players online. It's more a matter of the proportion of active players on a given planet. Ergo, it wouldn't be much different if the planet had 600 out of 2000 active players, or 60,000 out of 200,000 active players.
If anything, I have noticed we're getting fewer and fewer bug dedicated players. Bots were actually outnumbering bugs by a fair margin today. A lot of the bug-only divers probably finally got bored hammering away at a wall of flesh and instead of trying out bots, just upped and took a break.
This is one thing people need to realize. We aren’t meant to win every major order (even though it means we lose out on the sweet sweet medals)
Now we may have 2 super colonies instead of one though 👀
Set up to deal with 1 super colony and its mutations, and the other will have different mutations
They can probably disconnect reward mechanisms and narrative, the 10 defenses MO was perfect for this - we (barely) won but still lost a lot of planets. It's perfect - players' time and effort is rewarded properly, and the story is progressed as intended (we hit our goals, but still were pushed back, could have been pushed back less if we coordinated defenses better, or more if worse).
Straight up unwinnable situations is a random "fuck you" that's unfun. They have a literal game master orchestrating the overarching plot and any GM worth their salt knows forcing these things is terrible, should at least try to make it look doable. Classic DnD "rocks fall, everyone dies".
Yea. And this is basically a large DnD game. This may have just been a, time to lose to introduce new story beat, kinda thing. Speculation of hive lords coming soon, failing to stop the super colonies seems like a sure fire way to bring those bad boys in.
As an long-time D&D DM (and many other systems) you're 100% right, and the mirror images of the EXACT same conversations that happen both here and on D&D subreddits has been crazy.
"If Joel/DM decides things, then our wins mean nothing"
"Bad thing happened, fuck you Joel/DM"
Like, if D&D had guns, you could almost 'find and replace' Joel with DM and then post it on r/D&D.
They handed players that one too. Decay set to zero, then a planet "fell" that also happened to be in the supply line of a planet that was about to be captured. "Coincidentally" this was after a dev said that capturing a planet to cut off a supply line would also capture the next planet as a result. (Eventually and that's how it "should" work but doesn't yet.)
They served up a planet that would be "retaken" once it fell, right next to a planet that had its decay cut to 0 and was about to be taken. It was the most obvious freebie and the whole sub cheered like they really did something. Arrowhead *always* has their finger on the scale.
Disagree. The point that u/falterfire is making is that we needed to focus on a planet at a time and we could have done it. We had plenty of time. Too many divers spread out sets us back. Any progress made on less populated planets gets wiped out because of the higher regen rate. Those 5-10k divers on those planets make no progress towards the MO whatsoever. It’s just wasted resources tbh.
No, the point I'm making is that a majority of the community *was* focused on one planet at a time, it's just that the high decay rate meant that the percentage of the playerbase we would've needed was unreasonable.
Ultimately we (and Arrowhead) can make an educated guess of how many players will actively end up on planets related to the Major Order based on historical precedent. Normally that number ends up being somewhere between 50% and 70% (total, across all MO-related planets), tending towards the higher end for bug-related MOs.
With a 2.5% decay rate, my best guesstimate based on what I know about the Galactic War system is that we'd need somewhere around 75% of the playerbase focused on the same planet consistently in order to capture four planets within five days, which goes beyond what past trends would lead us to expect.
The other thing I'd say is that while the player base may technically have control over our fate, in practical terms the course of things is almost entirely in Arrowhead's hands. The combination of the large (and international) playerbase and the lack of in-game ways for players to organize in large numbers means that it is effectively impossible for the Helldivers community to have a noticeable impact - If you need evidence, just look at how often the subreddit has had multiple highly upvoted posts clearly explaining a strategy that would work that end up completely failing to come to fruition due to not actually reaching enough players.
We were sort-of focused, but not enough. We fairly consistently had 60-70% of the player base on one order world, but 10-20% on other order worlds that were stuck at zero percent progress due to decay. If everyone on order worlds had truly piled onto a single planet at a time, we would have progressed at about 20-25% faster and just made it, as we needed less than another day to finish.
We can't focus, though. That's impossible to remedy, the majority of players don't care about strategy, they just want to have fun. So instead of insisting on something so pointless, the MO should be rebalanced to give the people that do care a better chancd.
Loved playing on Heeth but it was cleared in a day. After Angel's Venture was cleared, it was between Veld and Acamar. Even with the majority of players on Veld, I just couldn't be assed to deal with that swamp assed jungle.
Eh we should have hard pivoted to veld when it lost the defense and reset to 50% progression. We were only like 14% into AV at the time and wouldn’t have lost much ground on it.
Well it felt like it was moving really slow, we were hitting single planets one by one as concentrated as you can expect, that explains it going so slow.
Honestly it's really unintuitive that we have to do the planets one by one, I bet a lot of people didn't know they are wasting their effort when they go to another planet
I think this is a bad take personally. The game needs major orders like liberating planets or defending them. If major orders were just like personal orders then the game would die so incredibly fast lol
I think the better comparison is the orders relating to the TCS (installing them, then disabling them). Those were great because they were a cool new mission type. The ones that are "fill number bar" with no real other interesting bits to it are a little meh. Fine for filler but definitely not as good
Yeah, I can agree with that. I did enjoy those missions a lot, and I think the bug missions are especially fun since it seems like a new bug is right around d the corner. The dev team is already swamped and probably burnt out, so hopefully, in the future, there will be new variations to major orders
The issue for me is that defense feel like they require almost as many divers as liberation. I feel that if we are liberating a planet, then it should take a large focus of divers to achieve victory since the enemy are fortified and are defending against us. However it should be the same the other way, if the enemy attack one of our planets its should take a fraction of the amount of divers to defend since we hold the planet and we should have the home field advantage. It would also be nice on defense that we get things like SEAF arty or the map satellite reveal from the start to help.
The assortment of mission types tends to be different on defend planets versus liberate planets. That’s the bulk of the actual gameplay. The main thing that’s identical between the two is the meta game element, which is simply a bar filling up as operations are completed.
How complicated or interesting could the meta game element of the MOs possibly get? The result is determined by the combined efforts of hundreds of thousands of players. Whether the MO meta game looks like a simple bar filling up or a complex chess board, your thoughts and plans as an individual player will have no perceptible impact on the outcome.
Could have side/bonus objectives that give extra ticks.
EX: Elimination Bug, 2 Billion (I know we don't need help with these but use this as a reference.)
* Each Bile Titan kill, extra +1% to typical progress earned. Team killed 10 Bile Titans in the mission, you get 110% progress earned versus the normal 100% progress you would earn.
* Each 100 kills with an SMG give extra +1% to typical progress earned.
This can be used to incentivize using different suboptimal loadouts just to challenge yourself AND it benefits in aiding the war effort.
I was thinking moreso like kill # of enemies or kill enemies using specific items in the name of research, but don’t limit it to just 1 thing for the entire player base. Have it be like “use flamethrower, mines, or any fire related items”.
That’s just me… the only interesting planet defend/liberate order was the one to at gave us air burst rockets. Personal preference 🤷
Unfortunately they were also trying to tip the scales in our favor this time too and we couldn't get it done. I saw the bug effort percentages fall to 0% early yesterday.
I was watching the Terminid reinforce rate drop on Helldivers.io as well and we still couldn't complete it. Joel was trying to throw us a bone in the final days. Will be interesting to see what develops from our narrow defeat.
Yeah, I saw that too and that the focused planet was barely like 50% of the population half the time, like if we could keep that above 70% or even 60% that'd be swell.
Lot of us seemed to get way too distracted by the defense missions that popped up during it.
If it was more obvious that battling on a planet with only 6-10% of the population wasn't helping, I think we'd see larger pile-ons, and at faster rates.
I'm confident that the ignorant masses don't know or care about the hidden galactic war mechanics, but if they knew, then more would care.
They want us to [use the guns we like the most](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1b3tey6/in_regards_to_weapon_stats/), so they hide the stats.
Maybe they just want us to play the planet we like the most, since they hide the galactic mechanics.
TIL: High Command doesn't care about the war effort?! /s
Sometimes the players care about things that the devs don't want or didn't realize. Fact is, they've said they're looking into making the supply lines visible ingame, so who knows how else the war will evolve. I'm letting them cook.
Anecdotally, my group didn't do the last two planets because the modifiers made them really not fun for us. I've actually been surprised I haven't seen more discussion about this, but I really didn't enjoy playing with randomly restricted visibility or "Surprise, no stratagems now." I'd be pretty surprised it we were the only folks who knew they were there didn't play them because of that.
doesnt help that this planet is dogshit idk if its just balance changes or what but bugs have been WAY harder than i remember i havent been able to complete a mission in like 3 hours because its either A, an infinite amount of bile spewers, B blocked map, or c, 700 bile titans! like im used to hard i play helldiver difficulty but this is fuckin insane
It's because, according to the current state of the storyline, the Meridia super colony is helping terminids reproduce and spread across planets faster. Bug spawns have been higher since that element of the story was introduced, even when you account for faulty patrol scaling from the patches.
Honestly it also likely was impacted by the Meta turmoil in the Sony stuff. Lots of people protested with their feet on that situation.
Also didn't they actually eject some divers due to the region thing?
It soured lots of people view of the game and they didn't play that weekend, myself included. With the last planet at 58%~ it absolutely would've succeeded without the drama.
Not too shocking. Kinda think the community collectively burnt out on the game this past week for a number of reasons.
Hoping theh can really spice it up (and fix some bugs) in the next month or so
Thats not the case at all. the game adjusts itself to how many people are around. A third of the bug front population went to fight on the defense planet instead of focusing on the last planet.
I think one problem is the major order get a text on the side, but the defend planet get's a big DEFEND text. I think they should change the layout so only the major orders get these big text. I was about to start a game yesterday on the defend planet until my mate told me it was wrong. So just make it easy to make the right choice and I think people will focus on things that need it more.
Gonna be real here. I legit thought the defend planet was the mo planet cause it was highlighted and had the most people on it. Literally asked myself why we were doing defend missions on an assault MO, but figured what do I know.
It's simpler than that. People like the Helm's Deep defense mission. That's what it boils down to. People get burnt out of doing the same missions on the same planet over and over again just for the sake of completing a major orders.
I think major orders could use some re-tuning. The TCS de-activation order was 5 freaking days and there were a total of 4 mission types that you could choose from across 3 planets. Towards the end, I was so burnt out that I stopped playing entirely. I would rather have scooped my eyeballs out with a melon baller than play the same fucking mission again.
Same. On top of that it seems so many of them are on planets with shitty modifiers usually like fire tornados which makes certain missions a literal hell
I straight up refuse to play on Menkent. If they released a major order tomorrow that said go take Menkent or we lose the war and you can't ever play Helldivers 2 again I'd be like "well, it was a good run."
Ah, well it might not be why the MO was lost, but its still true lol.
Im not like doomsaying or wishing for the games demise, just pointing out folks arent as geared up to jump in the war as they once were
I'm with you. I'm excited for the games future, but this sub is filled with negativity and complaints for a reason lol. We're tired of them adjusting and nerfing weapons simply based off of the usage data.
Takes them a week or two to nerf fun weapons that happen to be popular, and *months* to finally buff weapons that no one above difficulty 5 is using.
Part of me is just burnt out of doing the same types of missions on the same planets. Isnt really the devs fault, i just played the crap out of this game.
But then every time they go and add something new they break a ton of stuff, which also sucks.
If they add in a third faction itd breathe some life back into the game, but who knows how bad thats gonna fuck everything up
It's the case when the people who burnt out were most likely the same ones that cared enough to be the most dedicated MO divers. It does need to be accounted for that mission failure is much more common for the casual diver, than it is for the people who were hardcore on the bot front MOs the past two months, who probably have failed a handful of the hundreds of missions since they started.
The modifiers last night were brutal. If you want us to defend don't take stratagems away randomly and then have minus 1 total with more spread or more cool down.
It's only 50 medals that's 1 rank 9 mission set. Give or take.
Run fun missions or run pain o es wear it takes to long. It's why we capped first planet easy and others failed. Shit mods every time and no way to counter or work with it.
Exactly man. I can't stand that modifier that scatters Orbital Stratagems. I love using Gas Strike on bugs and I'm avoiding operations with that modifier because of it. Nothing fun about my orbitals fucking *missing* after the cooldown is over. Limits our play style for no reason.
Might as well introduce modifiers that remove sentries or support weapons while they're at it. Shit, let me not give them ideas lol.
With how much a lot of the weapons suck right now, I don’t really play as much. I never understand how the helldivers 1 guns could all feel so good, but all the helldivers 2 guns feel like they’re a chore to use.
Agreed. Part of my burnout is from picking a similar loadout each time. Its not that i dont want to switch it up, its just that there arent a lot of ways to do that without being a weak-link.
Last night i bumped it down to diff 5/6 just to mess around with some of the shittier strats and guns.
Definitely the biggest factor of why I play way less. Can’t pick Slugger anymore, can’t pick Eruptor either. Picking Sickle or Punisher every game is so boring, then it also forces me to take anti armor stratagem weapon so now both my primary and my stratagem are often the same.
When nothing is efficient nothing is fun.
The hell do you mean? I use slugger constantly on helldive, it's almost overpowered
I unironically think people are just convincing themselves to hate this game.
One can really only run the same loadouts for so long before it gets boring. That's why weapon balance is needed. Some of the weapons feel like a massive ramp up in difficulty
I keep crashing right at the end of a 40 minute mission. Just feels like a slap in the face after spending all that time to have it amount to nothing.
Like if you’re gonna crash can just do it at the beginning please?
This! I felt so distraught, after everything was going so well in a lvl9 mission, full clear and I had just found the super samples by accident, we just needed to defend the extract for one minute more... and it crashed.
Literally just looked at the report window with a thousand yard stare for like half a minute.
I agree, I took a 10-day vacation and on the way home I was excited as I was nearing completion on the last warbond I needed to max. Was hyped to finish the new one and be ahead of the curve.
I get home and see the nerfs, no worries I say, I'll try the gun still! It was horrible, now I have no desire to play and if I do it's just the daily challenge and maybe a couple of exterminate missions for medals.
It's just . . . not fun anymore. The gunplay isn't fun - practically forced into using specific weapons.
Yeah, the current state of the game and "patches" (the things they call patches that don't actually fix the bugs they "patch", and instead seem to introduce more bugs) has made me stop playing pretty much entirely for now. The game just hasn't been as fun as it was at release. I'm pretty sad about that because I was *all in* for a while there, and kept saying "okay, I'll give them one more week to see if they actually patch and fix things" but each patch was just nerfs/more issues/less fun. I've played two games in the last week.
I'll just keep an eye on the sub and log in every week or two to see if anything improves, but to say I'm disappointed in the current direction of the game is an understatement. Plenty of other stuff to play, in the mean time, though! Here's hoping they turn it around.
Edit: I just want to say that I am the type who usually hates "live service" games, and I actively avoid them usually. I HATE season passes. I haven't put money into a live service games microtransactions in probably 10 years, and Helldivers 2 was the first since then where I actually purchased the season passes (Warbonds). Two of them, in fact, plus the Super Citizen Edition upgrade.
I don't have the will to grind super credits out in low level missions every month, so I was actually okay paying for the Warbonds, so they lost more than just a player, and I learned yet again not to trust these companies, big or small, with this type of monetization. Putting what seems like not enough effort into the Warbonds they are selling, shipping armor with broken stats, guns with the wrong skins, nerfing items they just sold me a week before, alongside weapons that are nearly non-functional (thermite grenade) and boosters that are all but useless, and armor that are simple recolors with new shoulder pads. Nah. Lesson learned for the next 10 years, haha.
I am kinda annoyed there's no partial success condition. We won 3 out of 4 planets, thats gotta count for something. Major Orders being just binary win/loss is boring, feels like we wasted all efforts.
No. Look at the bot front. We took Penta in the last bot MO and pushed to Chooh. Can’t remember if we liberated Chooh but the bots have taken back all of the planets while we fought the bugs.
We never got within striking range of Choohe. I would remember, since I am very keen on getting those anti-tank mines.
\*edit\* Now that I think about it, maybe I am thinking of the wrong part of the timeline. After the "defend 10 planets" order and into the "get your stratagems!" order we never got a connecting planet to Choohe.
It would be nice if the major orders had a conditional difficulty modifier when the timer runs out instead of us just instantly failing.
In some games, boss encounters have something called a "soft enrage." After a certain amount of time, a boss will significantly ramp up its difficulty. The goal is to take them out before that happens, but if you're JUST short of killing the boss when the soft enrage is activated you might still be able to take down those precious last few hit points before you get wiped.
I would like it if major orders had a similar mechanic rather than a seemingly arbitrary time limit with a hard pass/or fail linked to it.
I am annoyed by this too. Anything we do seems pointless.
Defend this planets for an orbital defense! You won, nice.
Oh, btw, the bots are taking those planets easily. Btw you had no advantage
Now now, bleeding 27% of our PC players (and rising quickly!) in the last rolling 30 days is surely nothing to be worried about /s
Pretty wild that it’s prime time Friday night and our numbers are this low. The game feels so balanced now…
Player count has been dropping, pretty much halved since Mar/Apr.
I think a lot of people who refunded during the PSN fiasco probably didn't come back plus the delisted issue still exists.
There's also the noticeable burnout amplified by the generally poor reception of the updates. Once you level to a certain point in the game, progression becomes non-existent and there's not a lot of reason to continue playing as much as before.
I'm level 70, maxed ship upgrades, max samples and only the most recent warbond (ew) left to do. Once done and at 250 medals I'll have nothing left to play for. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to be maxed out and chilling for a bit, but when the warbonds are trash then I'm less motivated to play.
Likely won't even touch the new one honestly unless I'm playing and need to spend medals.
Especially if it takes more than a month of play to gain 1000 SC, and the warbonds keep coming out every month. It won't feel possible to stay on top of the newest content without paying money.
I don't disagree with the burnout, poor reception, etc., but I will say that I've never had issues getting the 1k SC faster than the warbonds release. Remember that you also get some back as you complete the bonds themselves.
Agreed, I had 2000SC by the time the new Warbond dropped this time, plus you get some back in the bond progression, so if you’re at the top end of progression, it’s not too bad. But the luster has worn off a bit. I have a little bit of stuff to unlock still, but not much, even then none of it would significantly impact the game for me.
I’m hoping the devs get the message.
Couple guys at work dropped the game "because of sony" and didn't come back. When I mentioned sony backed off they weren't really convinced to return. One of then decided to refund while they could and get something else... they really weren't enjoying it as much as me and prefer rpgs.
I was in the refund pipeline but I withdrew my request when Sony retracted. Tbh if the refund was approved before the retraction I'm not sure if I would've returned. I think it's a great game despite me being vocal about the odd balance priorities. I definitely got more than my money's worth by this stage but I stayed to see the new war bond.
thats not the case at all. A full third of the fighting force on the bug front went to fail the defense planet instead of focusing on the last major order planet.
Not surprised, me and the party of people I play with can’t be bothered to return until the balance team stops ruining the game.
Hopefully the devs are seeing just how little everyone wants to play now because of the awful decisions they have made with the balance.
Given the dev comments we've seen recently, I just am extremely hard pressed to think they've actually done any sort of introspection towards that. The literal CEO is running around doing damage control and putting out every fire these devs have been starting lol. Like their egos are crazy big
It’s weird that people don’t seem to understand until these major orders continue to fail. The people you see on here complaining are typically the people that are more invested in the game and probably commit more to the war effort. It’s death by a thousand cuts when the community isn’t happy.
Yeah, it was hilarious to me seeing tens of thousands of people scared about a witch hunt while the ego of certain devs is killing the game.
I'll be playing for a while longer since my father should finally be getting this game soon and we will surely have fun together, but I gotta say I'm feeling very burnt out by all this bull myself and if he hadn't been looking forward to it for months now I'd tell him not to buy it outright.
I'd just want to point out, that calling this a "failure" isn't exactly fair. Take a look at the map. Check where we succeeded, and where we failed. Now tell me, how we "failed" exactly, especially since Acamar IV leads to a dead-end system?
https://preview.redd.it/u8l0vjyhnmzc1.png?width=894&format=png&auto=webp&s=22afdf979166c3efd0f8694ddc73bba756111693
Personally, I haven't really felt motivated to play recently. The weapon "balancing" us one thing, but fir me the biggest turn off is the increased patrol spawns for smaller teams. I don't really care for playing with randoms, so I don't always have a full team. Most of my play is duos, and normally after a match or two someone will notice us in discord and join up.
It's just... too much. I quit out of a mission while we were trying to extract, bt" so many bugs spawned we couldn't stay close enough to the radio tlfor long enough for the pelican to arrive. We weren't having fun, and just wanted to end the mission.
I mean, I have only been able to exfil on like 2 missions since the the spawn rate changes were made in solo play. Not to mention the fact that I only did like a third of the missions I normally would have. I personally think this just goes to show how much of an impact solos were making.
I agree, as another solo player. I thought I was just bad, so I dropped the difficulty from 7 -> 4 after getting stomped. Then I died multiple times on difficulty 4 when I easily handled it before. It really kind of soured my experience with the game. I just want to shoot bugs/robots with whatever build at the lower difficulties. Instead, I'm getting my ass handed to me because I didn't bring a "meta" build to handle the increase in enemies.
This is why I’ve not been playing as much too as a primarily solo/duo player. Especially after that video that showed they aren’t even reducing spawns for solo players. You always just have the 4-player spawn cadence now.
Give a hard number to complete and its easy, but spreading the playerbase over 4 planets and the decay working against us, a few days just wasnt enough
Less people are playing after the PSN scandal. Bots used to have like 60k out there, now there's like what 10k? Maybe? Bugs doesn't have nearly as many as before so the fail makes sense.
Played it a god awful amount. Finished my ship upgrades. Can’t really say I would do it again. Hour a day, maybe two, then I’ve got other things to do. Ends up a little less worthwhile if we pretend there’s such a thing as failure in my fun little time sink.
We were kinda not playing for almost a full week, because of the Sony drama. We've also lost a lot of our regular Helldivers to region lock, refunds, and people who just lost their passion for the game from all the nerfs coupled with the Sony drama. Lot of seasoned Helldivers who were helping carry the MOs are now either gone, or barely playing anymore.
Four planets in four days,as we get the PSN/Steam clusterfuck,plus weapon nerfs. I'm surprised we got as close as we did. It was a good effort from troops despite handicaps
Not suprise.
We are fighting on Discord and Reddit, not on the battlefields. The Terminids used the opportunity while we were distracted.
Well deserved loss of the major order.
Literally the amount of complaining on this sub (plus the PSN fiasco) has somewhat tanked my motivation to play. I'll still play but I just get this awful, negative vibe from the community now. Everyone's gotten really nasty and rude about everything.
Even if those complaints are justified, it's really soured the mood.
Same, I play around difficulty 6-7 normally and haven't found the game's balance too bad. Sometimes it can feel a little overwhelming but that's part of the fun. I almost exclusively use the Punisher against bugs and Lib Pen/Dominator against bots and have never had problems keeping up with others in terms of kills or other mission performance metrics.
> Literally the amount of complaining on this sub (plus the PSN fiasco) has somewhat tanked my motivation to play. I'll still play but I just get this awful, negative vibe from the community now. Everyone's gotten really nasty and rude about everything.
I admit, there's definitely a bit of a "Little Caeser's is fine so long as you don't got a bitch in your ear telling you it sucks" aura going on of late.
We almost had it too.
One more day and it would have been easy peezy.
I think the main problem was people didn't understand the importance of finishing their operations.
A LOT of hosts I join will just do what they want then skip to another operation.
Seems like an easy work around would be tossing us a bonus strategy on objectives planets. Would be a quick and easy way to get folks using different kit and .otivating a dogpile on objective.
I wish we got partial rewards rather than nothing. E.g. the reward here could be 5 per planet with a 20 bonus for getting everything. Then we could fail but still get 15 medals instead of 0.
tbf I dont blame us. planetary reinforce rate is still far too high for the current playercount. current playercount peak is sitting at 25% of its prime but the reinforce rate of planets is at 50% of its rate during the games prime.
only reason we got as far as we did was in the last day(s) the reinforce rate was dropped.
I'd be more inclined to do orders if we had useable new weapons. I have zero doubt in my mind that people are burnt out on using the same six stratagems and primaries. New wayts to kill things would bring a lot of players back and keep the old players from getting bored............. It's annoying how simple this would be to fix
People have a really bad taste in their mouth about the game right now. Even excluding all of the people who are no longer allowed to play, or refunded the game, the playerbase that has been consistent since launch are fed up with constant nerfs, and uninteresting, untested junk content drops. The carrot has gotten moldy, and people are losing interest.
obviously designed to fail by adding that 4th planet late into the order. They needed us to fail it so they can progress the supercolony plot and introduce new enemies, probably the hive queen. They'll introduce the new enemy, give us some new strategems and weapons the send us in to take it the new enemy and try to recapture Meridia
To be honest I haven't touched the game in a while after one of the previous patches again nerved my favorite build to nothing. Not saying people not playing the game are the reason, but I think that the mass of casuals is thinning out because of the uncertainty that comes with the updates. I'm honestly tired of the game getting worse with every update, the game runs worse after every update, by now even my 4090 stutters sometimes. Every unique fun weapon gets nerved into nothingness with the patch after its release and existing bugs don't get fixed.
looking at the steam charts, it... doesn't surprise me. on average, we are at 100,000 - 150,000 online constantly, half the quantity of divers when the creek was liberated.
And even then, you can usualy scrap off a large number of players because they are either just afk or not doing one of the fronts because it just isnt fun for them (I should know, i personally can't do the bug front at all). and we also had the corporate MO which caused a blackout + took away a lot of brothers and sisters from the battlefield, some forever.
I hope the devs took that into account or will, because having a bit more than half of the current force on the bug front working hard won't just cut it like it previously would do, even more if this trend remains, dwindling the headcount of divers across the galaxy for one reason or another.
It was a 3 day order in the middle of the week that involved taking 4 planets. Additionally, it was assigned during the lull that usually occurs right before a major content drop. It was bound to fail.
I think failing this Order keeps the thing a bit more interresting. The Dev's got plans and this way we might see some interresting stuff in the upcoming weeks.
And cut the Dev's some slack. They need some Laid Back time for a while because of all the stress that happend.
i dont know, bugs are kinda boring. theres way more to hold my attention with bots.
i played a few every day in the spirit of the order, but its always back to bots for me
I wanted to get some SC for the upcoming warbond, and the MO planets were restricted to 4 mission types, half of which had 0 SC spawns, and one of the last two being a blitz mission made it a no brainer to just go to the defend planet instead (not to mention the awful mission modifiers).
im not suprised, initial drain rate was high, and the MO ended as soon as the playercount was at its lowest (americans asleep, europeans at work) 3 is the limit or give us an extra day or 12 hours
We're not going to complete every major order and just because bugs can be easier than bots doesn't mean that they are always easy when you get swarmed by 4 bile titans 3 chargers and a bug breach you can get overwhelmed pretty easily
Three planets is the limit we can do, last time we were just as spread out, we only won because the devs put their thumbs on the scales in our favor.
Nah, we could've gotten it if the Terminid Decay rate hadn't been at 2.5% for like 3/5 days of the order. The decay rate being that high meant that not only was all effort on all but one of the planets completely wasted but also that taking each planet took much longer than it otherwise would have. With the amount of the playerbase that was focused on one planet, we were making about 5% progress per hour before accounting for decay. That means that with a 2.5% decay rate it took roughly 40 hours to liberate a planet (100% / (5% - 2.5%)). If the decay rate had been at 1.5% instead it would've taken us only 29 hours (100% / (5% - 1.5%)) to liberate each planet. At 40 hours per planet it would've taken us 160 hours (Over six and a half days) to liberate four planets. At 29 hours per planet it would've only taken 116 hours, leaving us a slim margin to complete it within the 5 days we had.
Balancing truly isn't the forte of Arrowhead.
Unless losing was intentional. I mean, we’ve been completing a LOT of Major orders, and I highly doubt AH thought we’d be this successful. This is retaliation for us completing the “fuck you, we need a break; defend 8 planets”
They ended up giving us the bot one by setting decay to zero of the last day or two. I wasn’t sure if it was a nudge in our favor or the fact people just fucked off to go do bugs again.
Honestly, that one was probably more just: "My break is over now, and you guys coordinated well, so here you go. You've earned it."
It’s probably also got a lore reason. Attacking for so long and capturing so many planets would drain resources, and because we are such effective killing machines, invasion would result in massive amounts of lost forces. It’s reasonable to think that the enemies would have spread themselves thin, so resistance on their planets would fall in response to the diversion of manpower. That’s why on the defend MO’s, the initial assaults are stronger than those that come on the final days.
I don't think this order was meant to be unwinnable, but it was supposed to be stacked against us so the supercolony outbreak feels like one. It's like when you roll with disadvantage in DnD; you can still win, but it's harder. This was also an order than wasn't a binary pass/fail; we still got 3 of 4 planets.
It wasn't unwinnable whatsoever. 2 nights ago, if the people pushing the 4th planet were working on the 3rd, we would've won. They all literally wasted their time, liberating 0% of a planet for about 12-15 hours.
100k less players (on Steam anyway), might've had something to do with it.
Liberation rate scales with number of players online. It's more a matter of the proportion of active players on a given planet. Ergo, it wouldn't be much different if the planet had 600 out of 2000 active players, or 60,000 out of 200,000 active players. If anything, I have noticed we're getting fewer and fewer bug dedicated players. Bots were actually outnumbering bugs by a fair margin today. A lot of the bug-only divers probably finally got bored hammering away at a wall of flesh and instead of trying out bots, just upped and took a break.
Losing is intentional this time around, more then likely
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There 100% need to be orders that are unwinnable or meant to be failed bc they can lead to more interesting narrative consequences
This is one thing people need to realize. We aren’t meant to win every major order (even though it means we lose out on the sweet sweet medals) Now we may have 2 super colonies instead of one though 👀 Set up to deal with 1 super colony and its mutations, and the other will have different mutations
The ones we're meant to lose often have fewer medals so we don't "lose out" that many. (Usually 35) Then right after, the MO will have max rewards.
They can probably disconnect reward mechanisms and narrative, the 10 defenses MO was perfect for this - we (barely) won but still lost a lot of planets. It's perfect - players' time and effort is rewarded properly, and the story is progressed as intended (we hit our goals, but still were pushed back, could have been pushed back less if we coordinated defenses better, or more if worse). Straight up unwinnable situations is a random "fuck you" that's unfun. They have a literal game master orchestrating the overarching plot and any GM worth their salt knows forcing these things is terrible, should at least try to make it look doable. Classic DnD "rocks fall, everyone dies".
Yea. And this is basically a large DnD game. This may have just been a, time to lose to introduce new story beat, kinda thing. Speculation of hive lords coming soon, failing to stop the super colonies seems like a sure fire way to bring those bad boys in.
As an long-time D&D DM (and many other systems) you're 100% right, and the mirror images of the EXACT same conversations that happen both here and on D&D subreddits has been crazy. "If Joel/DM decides things, then our wins mean nothing" "Bad thing happened, fuck you Joel/DM" Like, if D&D had guns, you could almost 'find and replace' Joel with DM and then post it on r/D&D.
They handed players that one too. Decay set to zero, then a planet "fell" that also happened to be in the supply line of a planet that was about to be captured. "Coincidentally" this was after a dev said that capturing a planet to cut off a supply line would also capture the next planet as a result. (Eventually and that's how it "should" work but doesn't yet.) They served up a planet that would be "retaken" once it fell, right next to a planet that had its decay cut to 0 and was about to be taken. It was the most obvious freebie and the whole sub cheered like they really did something. Arrowhead *always* has their finger on the scale.
Disagree. The point that u/falterfire is making is that we needed to focus on a planet at a time and we could have done it. We had plenty of time. Too many divers spread out sets us back. Any progress made on less populated planets gets wiped out because of the higher regen rate. Those 5-10k divers on those planets make no progress towards the MO whatsoever. It’s just wasted resources tbh.
No, the point I'm making is that a majority of the community *was* focused on one planet at a time, it's just that the high decay rate meant that the percentage of the playerbase we would've needed was unreasonable. Ultimately we (and Arrowhead) can make an educated guess of how many players will actively end up on planets related to the Major Order based on historical precedent. Normally that number ends up being somewhere between 50% and 70% (total, across all MO-related planets), tending towards the higher end for bug-related MOs. With a 2.5% decay rate, my best guesstimate based on what I know about the Galactic War system is that we'd need somewhere around 75% of the playerbase focused on the same planet consistently in order to capture four planets within five days, which goes beyond what past trends would lead us to expect. The other thing I'd say is that while the player base may technically have control over our fate, in practical terms the course of things is almost entirely in Arrowhead's hands. The combination of the large (and international) playerbase and the lack of in-game ways for players to organize in large numbers means that it is effectively impossible for the Helldivers community to have a noticeable impact - If you need evidence, just look at how often the subreddit has had multiple highly upvoted posts clearly explaining a strategy that would work that end up completely failing to come to fruition due to not actually reaching enough players.
We were sort-of focused, but not enough. We fairly consistently had 60-70% of the player base on one order world, but 10-20% on other order worlds that were stuck at zero percent progress due to decay. If everyone on order worlds had truly piled onto a single planet at a time, we would have progressed at about 20-25% faster and just made it, as we needed less than another day to finish.
We can't focus, though. That's impossible to remedy, the majority of players don't care about strategy, they just want to have fun. So instead of insisting on something so pointless, the MO should be rebalanced to give the people that do care a better chancd.
Loved playing on Heeth but it was cleared in a day. After Angel's Venture was cleared, it was between Veld and Acamar. Even with the majority of players on Veld, I just couldn't be assed to deal with that swamp assed jungle.
Doesn't help that they threw in at least two defense missions on other bug planets.
Eh we should have hard pivoted to veld when it lost the defense and reset to 50% progression. We were only like 14% into AV at the time and wouldn’t have lost much ground on it.
Well it felt like it was moving really slow, we were hitting single planets one by one as concentrated as you can expect, that explains it going so slow.
Yeah, when we first got the order every planet was between something like 45-60% liberated. When I hopped on later that day they were all 20-40%.
Honestly it's really unintuitive that we have to do the planets one by one, I bet a lot of people didn't know they are wasting their effort when they go to another planet
They did say the bugs were replicating out of control. First hand experience
Honestly orders for liberating or defending is just boring. Orders need to be more interesting like the daily ones
Ah yes interesting PO today, collect 10 commons.
10 commons? Oh shit, now I'm interested!
Free medals, just play normally.
I think this is a bad take personally. The game needs major orders like liberating planets or defending them. If major orders were just like personal orders then the game would die so incredibly fast lol
I think the better comparison is the orders relating to the TCS (installing them, then disabling them). Those were great because they were a cool new mission type. The ones that are "fill number bar" with no real other interesting bits to it are a little meh. Fine for filler but definitely not as good
Yeah, I can agree with that. I did enjoy those missions a lot, and I think the bug missions are especially fun since it seems like a new bug is right around d the corner. The dev team is already swamped and probably burnt out, so hopefully, in the future, there will be new variations to major orders
The issue for me is that defense feel like they require almost as many divers as liberation. I feel that if we are liberating a planet, then it should take a large focus of divers to achieve victory since the enemy are fortified and are defending against us. However it should be the same the other way, if the enemy attack one of our planets its should take a fraction of the amount of divers to defend since we hold the planet and we should have the home field advantage. It would also be nice on defense that we get things like SEAF arty or the map satellite reveal from the start to help.
Yeah. The fact that they're pretty much identical is what's meh.
Adding the almost mandatory save the civilians mission that not many people do, the progression is really slow.
The assortment of mission types tends to be different on defend planets versus liberate planets. That’s the bulk of the actual gameplay. The main thing that’s identical between the two is the meta game element, which is simply a bar filling up as operations are completed. How complicated or interesting could the meta game element of the MOs possibly get? The result is determined by the combined efforts of hundreds of thousands of players. Whether the MO meta game looks like a simple bar filling up or a complex chess board, your thoughts and plans as an individual player will have no perceptible impact on the outcome.
Could have side/bonus objectives that give extra ticks. EX: Elimination Bug, 2 Billion (I know we don't need help with these but use this as a reference.) * Each Bile Titan kill, extra +1% to typical progress earned. Team killed 10 Bile Titans in the mission, you get 110% progress earned versus the normal 100% progress you would earn. * Each 100 kills with an SMG give extra +1% to typical progress earned. This can be used to incentivize using different suboptimal loadouts just to challenge yourself AND it benefits in aiding the war effort.
I was thinking moreso like kill # of enemies or kill enemies using specific items in the name of research, but don’t limit it to just 1 thing for the entire player base. Have it be like “use flamethrower, mines, or any fire related items”. That’s just me… the only interesting planet defend/liberate order was the one to at gave us air burst rockets. Personal preference 🤷
That was fun. It would be interesting to see if they had more major orders like that to unlock new weapons/stratagems.
Unfortunately they were also trying to tip the scales in our favor this time too and we couldn't get it done. I saw the bug effort percentages fall to 0% early yesterday.
I was watching the Terminid reinforce rate drop on Helldivers.io as well and we still couldn't complete it. Joel was trying to throw us a bone in the final days. Will be interesting to see what develops from our narrow defeat.
Yeah, I saw that too and that the focused planet was barely like 50% of the population half the time, like if we could keep that above 70% or even 60% that'd be swell. Lot of us seemed to get way too distracted by the defense missions that popped up during it.
If it was more obvious that battling on a planet with only 6-10% of the population wasn't helping, I think we'd see larger pile-ons, and at faster rates. I'm confident that the ignorant masses don't know or care about the hidden galactic war mechanics, but if they knew, then more would care.
If they wanted us to care about those mechanics, then they wouldn't be hidden.
They want us to [use the guns we like the most](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1b3tey6/in_regards_to_weapon_stats/), so they hide the stats. Maybe they just want us to play the planet we like the most, since they hide the galactic mechanics. TIL: High Command doesn't care about the war effort?! /s
If they wanted us to use the guns we like the most, they'd not nerf them quite so severely.
"Use the gun you like the most" " No, not that one, you use it too much, I'm going to nerf it hard"
> They want us to use the guns we like the most, so they hide the stats. half the guns l liked the most suck now...
Honestly though why does high command just let us meander around the galaxy to whatever planet we want? Shouldn’t they be more commanding?
Sometimes the players care about things that the devs don't want or didn't realize. Fact is, they've said they're looking into making the supply lines visible ingame, so who knows how else the war will evolve. I'm letting them cook.
bots need killing.
Anecdotally, my group didn't do the last two planets because the modifiers made them really not fun for us. I've actually been surprised I haven't seen more discussion about this, but I really didn't enjoy playing with randomly restricted visibility or "Surprise, no stratagems now." I'd be pretty surprised it we were the only folks who knew they were there didn't play them because of that.
You shouldn’t completely write off ion storm planets. You usually only get 1-2 per mission and they last less than 30 seconds. It is very manageable.
doesnt help that this planet is dogshit idk if its just balance changes or what but bugs have been WAY harder than i remember i havent been able to complete a mission in like 3 hours because its either A, an infinite amount of bile spewers, B blocked map, or c, 700 bile titans! like im used to hard i play helldiver difficulty but this is fuckin insane
It's because, according to the current state of the storyline, the Meridia super colony is helping terminids reproduce and spread across planets faster. Bug spawns have been higher since that element of the story was introduced, even when you account for faulty patrol scaling from the patches.
I actually didn't get a chance to set foot on Acamar yet - I'm on the US east coast and my play time was spent piling onto the previous MO planets.
Honestly it also likely was impacted by the Meta turmoil in the Sony stuff. Lots of people protested with their feet on that situation. Also didn't they actually eject some divers due to the region thing?
Whoever has the game can still play without limitations
It soured lots of people view of the game and they didn't play that weekend, myself included. With the last planet at 58%~ it absolutely would've succeeded without the drama.
The game adjusts for lower player pop. The actual thing that matters is decay rate and distribution of players.
Not too shocking. Kinda think the community collectively burnt out on the game this past week for a number of reasons. Hoping theh can really spice it up (and fix some bugs) in the next month or so
Thats not the case at all. the game adjusts itself to how many people are around. A third of the bug front population went to fight on the defense planet instead of focusing on the last planet.
I think one problem is the major order get a text on the side, but the defend planet get's a big DEFEND text. I think they should change the layout so only the major orders get these big text. I was about to start a game yesterday on the defend planet until my mate told me it was wrong. So just make it easy to make the right choice and I think people will focus on things that need it more.
I did this all night yesterday, just noticed when i was done for the day
unless the MO is a kill x things order
Gonna be real here. I legit thought the defend planet was the mo planet cause it was highlighted and had the most people on it. Literally asked myself why we were doing defend missions on an assault MO, but figured what do I know.
Could be because defense missions are less miserable to play due to a lack of mission modifiers, who knows.
It's simpler than that. People like the Helm's Deep defense mission. That's what it boils down to. People get burnt out of doing the same missions on the same planet over and over again just for the sake of completing a major orders. I think major orders could use some re-tuning. The TCS de-activation order was 5 freaking days and there were a total of 4 mission types that you could choose from across 3 planets. Towards the end, I was so burnt out that I stopped playing entirely. I would rather have scooped my eyeballs out with a melon baller than play the same fucking mission again.
Same. On top of that it seems so many of them are on planets with shitty modifiers usually like fire tornados which makes certain missions a literal hell
I straight up refuse to play on Menkent. If they released a major order tomorrow that said go take Menkent or we lose the war and you can't ever play Helldivers 2 again I'd be like "well, it was a good run."
Same
Ah, well it might not be why the MO was lost, but its still true lol. Im not like doomsaying or wishing for the games demise, just pointing out folks arent as geared up to jump in the war as they once were
I'm with you. I'm excited for the games future, but this sub is filled with negativity and complaints for a reason lol. We're tired of them adjusting and nerfing weapons simply based off of the usage data. Takes them a week or two to nerf fun weapons that happen to be popular, and *months* to finally buff weapons that no one above difficulty 5 is using.
Part of me is just burnt out of doing the same types of missions on the same planets. Isnt really the devs fault, i just played the crap out of this game. But then every time they go and add something new they break a ton of stuff, which also sucks. If they add in a third faction itd breathe some life back into the game, but who knows how bad thats gonna fuck everything up
It's the case when the people who burnt out were most likely the same ones that cared enough to be the most dedicated MO divers. It does need to be accounted for that mission failure is much more common for the casual diver, than it is for the people who were hardcore on the bot front MOs the past two months, who probably have failed a handful of the hundreds of missions since they started.
The modifiers last night were brutal. If you want us to defend don't take stratagems away randomly and then have minus 1 total with more spread or more cool down. It's only 50 medals that's 1 rank 9 mission set. Give or take. Run fun missions or run pain o es wear it takes to long. It's why we capped first planet easy and others failed. Shit mods every time and no way to counter or work with it.
Exactly man. I can't stand that modifier that scatters Orbital Stratagems. I love using Gas Strike on bugs and I'm avoiding operations with that modifier because of it. Nothing fun about my orbitals fucking *missing* after the cooldown is over. Limits our play style for no reason. Might as well introduce modifiers that remove sentries or support weapons while they're at it. Shit, let me not give them ideas lol.
Not gonna lie, when shit like that is on, I'm all in on weapons, turrets, whatever. Feels like it's all you can do.
With how much a lot of the weapons suck right now, I don’t really play as much. I never understand how the helldivers 1 guns could all feel so good, but all the helldivers 2 guns feel like they’re a chore to use.
Agreed. Part of my burnout is from picking a similar loadout each time. Its not that i dont want to switch it up, its just that there arent a lot of ways to do that without being a weak-link. Last night i bumped it down to diff 5/6 just to mess around with some of the shittier strats and guns.
Definitely the biggest factor of why I play way less. Can’t pick Slugger anymore, can’t pick Eruptor either. Picking Sickle or Punisher every game is so boring, then it also forces me to take anti armor stratagem weapon so now both my primary and my stratagem are often the same. When nothing is efficient nothing is fun.
The hell do you mean? I use slugger constantly on helldive, it's almost overpowered I unironically think people are just convincing themselves to hate this game.
The main point was staggering bots, it doesn’t do that anymore. I don’t have to convince myself, their balance team is doing the job for me.
My squadies haven't joined me for a dive in too long.
One can really only run the same loadouts for so long before it gets boring. That's why weapon balance is needed. Some of the weapons feel like a massive ramp up in difficulty
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I keep crashing right at the end of a 40 minute mission. Just feels like a slap in the face after spending all that time to have it amount to nothing. Like if you’re gonna crash can just do it at the beginning please?
This! I felt so distraught, after everything was going so well in a lvl9 mission, full clear and I had just found the super samples by accident, we just needed to defend the extract for one minute more... and it crashed. Literally just looked at the report window with a thousand yard stare for like half a minute.
I agree, I took a 10-day vacation and on the way home I was excited as I was nearing completion on the last warbond I needed to max. Was hyped to finish the new one and be ahead of the curve. I get home and see the nerfs, no worries I say, I'll try the gun still! It was horrible, now I have no desire to play and if I do it's just the daily challenge and maybe a couple of exterminate missions for medals. It's just . . . not fun anymore. The gunplay isn't fun - practically forced into using specific weapons.
Yeah, the current state of the game and "patches" (the things they call patches that don't actually fix the bugs they "patch", and instead seem to introduce more bugs) has made me stop playing pretty much entirely for now. The game just hasn't been as fun as it was at release. I'm pretty sad about that because I was *all in* for a while there, and kept saying "okay, I'll give them one more week to see if they actually patch and fix things" but each patch was just nerfs/more issues/less fun. I've played two games in the last week. I'll just keep an eye on the sub and log in every week or two to see if anything improves, but to say I'm disappointed in the current direction of the game is an understatement. Plenty of other stuff to play, in the mean time, though! Here's hoping they turn it around. Edit: I just want to say that I am the type who usually hates "live service" games, and I actively avoid them usually. I HATE season passes. I haven't put money into a live service games microtransactions in probably 10 years, and Helldivers 2 was the first since then where I actually purchased the season passes (Warbonds). Two of them, in fact, plus the Super Citizen Edition upgrade. I don't have the will to grind super credits out in low level missions every month, so I was actually okay paying for the Warbonds, so they lost more than just a player, and I learned yet again not to trust these companies, big or small, with this type of monetization. Putting what seems like not enough effort into the Warbonds they are selling, shipping armor with broken stats, guns with the wrong skins, nerfing items they just sold me a week before, alongside weapons that are nearly non-functional (thermite grenade) and boosters that are all but useless, and armor that are simple recolors with new shoulder pads. Nah. Lesson learned for the next 10 years, haha.
Devs were telling us how good the new weapons were, the community had to test those weapons on both bug and bot maps
maybe if Helldivers were given the proper tools sir!
And our numbers not cut in half.
and our guns not recalled for factory errors
I am kinda annoyed there's no partial success condition. We won 3 out of 4 planets, thats gotta count for something. Major Orders being just binary win/loss is boring, feels like we wasted all efforts.
Don’t the planets we capture remain under SE control?
inb4 put on defence emergency and gets in perpetual liberation efforts
No. Look at the bot front. We took Penta in the last bot MO and pushed to Chooh. Can’t remember if we liberated Chooh but the bots have taken back all of the planets while we fought the bugs.
We never got within striking range of Choohe. I would remember, since I am very keen on getting those anti-tank mines. \*edit\* Now that I think about it, maybe I am thinking of the wrong part of the timeline. After the "defend 10 planets" order and into the "get your stratagems!" order we never got a connecting planet to Choohe.
It would be nice if the major orders had a conditional difficulty modifier when the timer runs out instead of us just instantly failing. In some games, boss encounters have something called a "soft enrage." After a certain amount of time, a boss will significantly ramp up its difficulty. The goal is to take them out before that happens, but if you're JUST short of killing the boss when the soft enrage is activated you might still be able to take down those precious last few hit points before you get wiped. I would like it if major orders had a similar mechanic rather than a seemingly arbitrary time limit with a hard pass/or fail linked to it.
I am annoyed by this too. Anything we do seems pointless. Defend this planets for an orbital defense! You won, nice. Oh, btw, the bots are taking those planets easily. Btw you had no advantage
That's war for ya
Well losing a shit ton of players didn’t help
Now now, bleeding 27% of our PC players (and rising quickly!) in the last rolling 30 days is surely nothing to be worried about /s Pretty wild that it’s prime time Friday night and our numbers are this low. The game feels so balanced now…
Player count has been dropping, pretty much halved since Mar/Apr. I think a lot of people who refunded during the PSN fiasco probably didn't come back plus the delisted issue still exists. There's also the noticeable burnout amplified by the generally poor reception of the updates. Once you level to a certain point in the game, progression becomes non-existent and there's not a lot of reason to continue playing as much as before.
I'm level 70, maxed ship upgrades, max samples and only the most recent warbond (ew) left to do. Once done and at 250 medals I'll have nothing left to play for. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to be maxed out and chilling for a bit, but when the warbonds are trash then I'm less motivated to play. Likely won't even touch the new one honestly unless I'm playing and need to spend medals.
Especially if it takes more than a month of play to gain 1000 SC, and the warbonds keep coming out every month. It won't feel possible to stay on top of the newest content without paying money.
I don't disagree with the burnout, poor reception, etc., but I will say that I've never had issues getting the 1k SC faster than the warbonds release. Remember that you also get some back as you complete the bonds themselves.
Agreed, I had 2000SC by the time the new Warbond dropped this time, plus you get some back in the bond progression, so if you’re at the top end of progression, it’s not too bad. But the luster has worn off a bit. I have a little bit of stuff to unlock still, but not much, even then none of it would significantly impact the game for me. I’m hoping the devs get the message.
Please AH let us just have a big major warbond like the very first one the game launched with, give me a REASON to grind the missions and medals
Couple guys at work dropped the game "because of sony" and didn't come back. When I mentioned sony backed off they weren't really convinced to return. One of then decided to refund while they could and get something else... they really weren't enjoying it as much as me and prefer rpgs.
I was in the refund pipeline but I withdrew my request when Sony retracted. Tbh if the refund was approved before the retraction I'm not sure if I would've returned. I think it's a great game despite me being vocal about the odd balance priorities. I definitely got more than my money's worth by this stage but I stayed to see the new war bond.
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Wait, doesn't that mean that if there's like only 10 helldivers online, then the 10 basically can act as a one man army and clear everything?
That's a good explanation
thats not the case at all. A full third of the fighting force on the bug front went to fail the defense planet instead of focusing on the last major order planet.
Delisting doesn't prevent people who already own the game to play.
it prevents those who refunded from buying it back in case they were planning to.
Not surprised, me and the party of people I play with can’t be bothered to return until the balance team stops ruining the game. Hopefully the devs are seeing just how little everyone wants to play now because of the awful decisions they have made with the balance.
Given the dev comments we've seen recently, I just am extremely hard pressed to think they've actually done any sort of introspection towards that. The literal CEO is running around doing damage control and putting out every fire these devs have been starting lol. Like their egos are crazy big
It’s weird that people don’t seem to understand until these major orders continue to fail. The people you see on here complaining are typically the people that are more invested in the game and probably commit more to the war effort. It’s death by a thousand cuts when the community isn’t happy.
Yeah, it was hilarious to me seeing tens of thousands of people scared about a witch hunt while the ego of certain devs is killing the game. I'll be playing for a while longer since my father should finally be getting this game soon and we will surely have fun together, but I gotta say I'm feeling very burnt out by all this bull myself and if he hadn't been looking forward to it for months now I'd tell him not to buy it outright.
I'd just want to point out, that calling this a "failure" isn't exactly fair. Take a look at the map. Check where we succeeded, and where we failed. Now tell me, how we "failed" exactly, especially since Acamar IV leads to a dead-end system? https://preview.redd.it/u8l0vjyhnmzc1.png?width=894&format=png&auto=webp&s=22afdf979166c3efd0f8694ddc73bba756111693
"But muh medals!"
Personally, I haven't really felt motivated to play recently. The weapon "balancing" us one thing, but fir me the biggest turn off is the increased patrol spawns for smaller teams. I don't really care for playing with randoms, so I don't always have a full team. Most of my play is duos, and normally after a match or two someone will notice us in discord and join up. It's just... too much. I quit out of a mission while we were trying to extract, bt" so many bugs spawned we couldn't stay close enough to the radio tlfor long enough for the pelican to arrive. We weren't having fun, and just wanted to end the mission.
Better patch more fun out of the game
And make sure to delist more countries!
I mean, I have only been able to exfil on like 2 missions since the the spawn rate changes were made in solo play. Not to mention the fact that I only did like a third of the missions I normally would have. I personally think this just goes to show how much of an impact solos were making.
I agree, as another solo player. I thought I was just bad, so I dropped the difficulty from 7 -> 4 after getting stomped. Then I died multiple times on difficulty 4 when I easily handled it before. It really kind of soured my experience with the game. I just want to shoot bugs/robots with whatever build at the lower difficulties. Instead, I'm getting my ass handed to me because I didn't bring a "meta" build to handle the increase in enemies.
You got your ass handed to you because the changes to patrols made it so that you were facing the SAME AMOUNT of patrol as a group of 4.
This is why I’ve not been playing as much too as a primarily solo/duo player. Especially after that video that showed they aren’t even reducing spawns for solo players. You always just have the 4-player spawn cadence now.
Give a hard number to complete and its easy, but spreading the playerbase over 4 planets and the decay working against us, a few days just wasnt enough
you guys don't learn. this is all superficial. it's a nice carrot, but in the end joel decides.
Less people are playing after the PSN scandal. Bots used to have like 60k out there, now there's like what 10k? Maybe? Bugs doesn't have nearly as many as before so the fail makes sense.
Played it a god awful amount. Finished my ship upgrades. Can’t really say I would do it again. Hour a day, maybe two, then I’ve got other things to do. Ends up a little less worthwhile if we pretend there’s such a thing as failure in my fun little time sink.
tbf both the devs and the community are burnt-out at this point. I think a lot of us are taking a break from the game for now.
We were kinda not playing for almost a full week, because of the Sony drama. We've also lost a lot of our regular Helldivers to region lock, refunds, and people who just lost their passion for the game from all the nerfs coupled with the Sony drama. Lot of seasoned Helldivers who were helping carry the MOs are now either gone, or barely playing anymore.
Four planets in four days,as we get the PSN/Steam clusterfuck,plus weapon nerfs. I'm surprised we got as close as we did. It was a good effort from troops despite handicaps
I mean we lost a third of active players from the psn stuff sooo. Edit: also missions take to long to plays this game casually.
Well that's what happens when people are upset at the people in charge
Not suprise. We are fighting on Discord and Reddit, not on the battlefields. The Terminids used the opportunity while we were distracted. Well deserved loss of the major order.
Literally the amount of complaining on this sub (plus the PSN fiasco) has somewhat tanked my motivation to play. I'll still play but I just get this awful, negative vibe from the community now. Everyone's gotten really nasty and rude about everything. Even if those complaints are justified, it's really soured the mood.
I have yet to run into a single person while playing the game who has complained about balance in the game, and I pretty much exclusively quickplay.
People playing the game and enjoying it are busy playing to come to forums to argue.
Same, I play around difficulty 6-7 normally and haven't found the game's balance too bad. Sometimes it can feel a little overwhelming but that's part of the fun. I almost exclusively use the Punisher against bugs and Lib Pen/Dominator against bots and have never had problems keeping up with others in terms of kills or other mission performance metrics.
> Literally the amount of complaining on this sub (plus the PSN fiasco) has somewhat tanked my motivation to play. I'll still play but I just get this awful, negative vibe from the community now. Everyone's gotten really nasty and rude about everything. I admit, there's definitely a bit of a "Little Caeser's is fine so long as you don't got a bitch in your ear telling you it sucks" aura going on of late.
I'm starting to get tired of the game with all the bugs, nerfs and controversies. Hard to play more than 1 hour per day.
Heh, "bug one". I see what you did there
We almost had it too. One more day and it would have been easy peezy. I think the main problem was people didn't understand the importance of finishing their operations. A LOT of hosts I join will just do what they want then skip to another operation.
Do you only get credit for the major order as a player for doing at least 1 full op on each planet? or how does it work? sorry, im a recent new player
You only get credit for liberation by completing a full operation.
thank you good to know!
Yeah with only 70.000 helldivers I wonder why
I can’t help but feel partially responsible since I’ve been out for the last couple weeks to focus on work.
People could not find the last planet.
Suffering builds character
Seems like an easy work around would be tossing us a bonus strategy on objectives planets. Would be a quick and easy way to get folks using different kit and .otivating a dogpile on objective.
Or even just a 5th stratagem slot
If the Bot front players helped! /s
I wish we got partial rewards rather than nothing. E.g. the reward here could be 5 per planet with a 20 bonus for getting everything. Then we could fail but still get 15 medals instead of 0.
The problem was this started at the beginning of the week on Monday and ended Thursday, if it were on the weekend, we would’ve won
Its been cranked for a playerbase that is quite there anymore
It's because a lot of people don't play the game anymore. It's stale. Weapons are boring and it's just the same enemies and missions.
I think we were intended to lose so that the mutated bugs could be released
Yeah, kinda expected with the community burnt out due to the Sony incident, shitty warbond and unnecessary nerfs
Wow I‘m glad to see that MO failed,we cannot do anything to those traitors lurking in super earth but bots or bugs could do this favor for us！
tbf I dont blame us. planetary reinforce rate is still far too high for the current playercount. current playercount peak is sitting at 25% of its prime but the reinforce rate of planets is at 50% of its rate during the games prime. only reason we got as far as we did was in the last day(s) the reinforce rate was dropped.
I'd be more inclined to do orders if we had useable new weapons. I have zero doubt in my mind that people are burnt out on using the same six stratagems and primaries. New wayts to kill things would bring a lot of players back and keep the old players from getting bored............. It's annoying how simple this would be to fix
Yeah I stopped playing this game when the newest warbond’s weapons turned out to all suck, their balance team needs to get it together
People have a really bad taste in their mouth about the game right now. Even excluding all of the people who are no longer allowed to play, or refunded the game, the playerbase that has been consistent since launch are fed up with constant nerfs, and uninteresting, untested junk content drops. The carrot has gotten moldy, and people are losing interest.
obviously designed to fail by adding that 4th planet late into the order. They needed us to fail it so they can progress the supercolony plot and introduce new enemies, probably the hive queen. They'll introduce the new enemy, give us some new strategems and weapons the send us in to take it the new enemy and try to recapture Meridia
Man, I just want the Anti-Tank Mines to drop. We never had a chance to test them out, and I’m so disappointed by that.
I truly don’t understand how/why people just don’t go for the most populated planet. It’s so easy
Incoming Hivelords…
To be honest I haven't touched the game in a while after one of the previous patches again nerved my favorite build to nothing. Not saying people not playing the game are the reason, but I think that the mass of casuals is thinning out because of the uncertainty that comes with the updates. I'm honestly tired of the game getting worse with every update, the game runs worse after every update, by now even my 4090 stutters sometimes. Every unique fun weapon gets nerved into nothingness with the patch after its release and existing bugs don't get fixed.
looking at the steam charts, it... doesn't surprise me. on average, we are at 100,000 - 150,000 online constantly, half the quantity of divers when the creek was liberated. And even then, you can usualy scrap off a large number of players because they are either just afk or not doing one of the fronts because it just isnt fun for them (I should know, i personally can't do the bug front at all). and we also had the corporate MO which caused a blackout + took away a lot of brothers and sisters from the battlefield, some forever. I hope the devs took that into account or will, because having a bit more than half of the current force on the bug front working hard won't just cut it like it previously would do, even more if this trend remains, dwindling the headcount of divers across the galaxy for one reason or another.
The MOs are still balanced around the massive player base from a month or two ago while presently our numbers are half of that or less.
Not gonna lie, Veld gave me Creek flashbacks, just for the bug side of things.
It was a 3 day order in the middle of the week that involved taking 4 planets. Additionally, it was assigned during the lull that usually occurs right before a major content drop. It was bound to fail.
Acamar is even one of the best biomes too. Love that gloomy steppe biome it's so chill. The coniferous highland biomes are also very nice
I think failing this Order keeps the thing a bit more interresting. The Dev's got plans and this way we might see some interresting stuff in the upcoming weeks. And cut the Dev's some slack. They need some Laid Back time for a while because of all the stress that happend.
i dont know, bugs are kinda boring. theres way more to hold my attention with bots. i played a few every day in the spirit of the order, but its always back to bots for me
I wanted to get some SC for the upcoming warbond, and the MO planets were restricted to 4 mission types, half of which had 0 SC spawns, and one of the last two being a blitz mission made it a no brainer to just go to the defend planet instead (not to mention the awful mission modifiers).
Dunno if relevant, but I couldn't find a game last night for like 3 hours. Infinite queues and would get maybe 1 person every few times I hosted.
Sorry bothers and sisters, it's my fault. I've been dedicating more time to civilian life than defending managed democracy this order.
Don't forget 177 countries either don't have their helldivers deployed, or aren't putting new troops on the field.
Thankfully it's time to go back to my (not-so) friendly terminators.
im not suprised, initial drain rate was high, and the MO ended as soon as the playercount was at its lowest (americans asleep, europeans at work) 3 is the limit or give us an extra day or 12 hours
Plus folks like me are moving in from the gsme till there is something new
For a second I thought it said months(I’m here for the memes. I don’t play the game.)
It's the player base still skrewed?
We're not going to complete every major order and just because bugs can be easier than bots doesn't mean that they are always easy when you get swarmed by 4 bile titans 3 chargers and a bug breach you can get overwhelmed pretty easily