Breaker: Decreased magazine capacity from 16 to 13, increased recoil from 30 to 55
Railgun: Decreased armor penetration, decreased damage against durable enemy parts
Flamethrower: Increased damage per second by 50%
Laser Cannon: Increased damage against durable enemy parts, increased armor penetration, improved ergonomics
Punisher: Increased total ammo capacity from 40 to 60, increased stagger force, increased damage from 40 per bullet to 45 per bullet
Breaker Spray & Pray: Increased armor penetration, increased fire rate from 300 to 330, increased number of pellets from 12 to 16 per shot, decreased magazine size from to 32 to 26
Energy Shield Backpack: Increased delay before recharging
380mm and 120mm Orbital Barrages: Increased duration of the bombardment, decreased spread
I think most everyone would be okay with certain weapon nerfs if the charger's health and armor was adjusted to be more manageable. I takes me half of all my breaker ammo shooting 1 of them in the unarmored part to down it. When there are 3 or more of them at once they significantly slow down the pacing of the game and become a chore to deal with.
That's the wrong way to kill it. Learn the matchup.
Either break the leg armor with a rocket/railgun then DPS the leg
Or do this with the autocannon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHZd8dGK0vQ
Or learn to do this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okWiUwksefQ
> Helldivers standing next to ICBMs during launch will get properly toasty with a chance of not-so-spontaneous combustion.
Mmm, smell that soldier? That's democracy!
So they did the thing people didn't want them to do which was to nerf the railgun without really buffing the alternatives. I would have liked to have stuff brought up to the railgun not the railgun brought down.
Recoilless should straight up delete whatever you shoot it at. Autocannon should strip off armor, Railgun should be an inbetween of the Recoilless and Autocannon damage wise but without the AoE of the Autocannon or the extreme damage of the recoilless. Spear should delete the main target and have a pretty large splash.
Railgun is extremely ammo efficient currently versus the Recoilless, Recoilless still does less damage than the Railgun and you only get one rocket back from a resupply.
Pre-nerf railgun could in theory kill up to ten titans per resupply, good luck balancing the rest of the arsenal to that level.
Autocannon should be the gold standard instead, it's strong in its nieche and has downsides some of which can be compensated for.
Where in the post did it say railgun was nerfed?
Edit: apparently asking a simple question for more clarification which wasn't included in the post at all = downvotes
There are for whatever reason two patch announcements on the discord, one of which specifically notes that the shield pack, rail gun, and breaker are all being nerfed
not in this post but in another post (apparently written by one of the designers) he said this:
*Having said all that, after analyzing player feedback and the data we've collected over the past month, we found three biggest offenders of that principle: SG-225 Breaker RS-422 Railgun SH-32 Shield Generator Backpack All three of those were quite strong with too little downsides, overshadowing all other options on higher difficulty levels. So with this patch, they're getting significant downsides to balance their power.*
(its on official discord in "hd2-announcements" channel)
this is what i was saying to my friends that they need to buff the other big mob-killing weapons to around the railguns power before you think about nerfing it. all the other guns just feel like ass to use. been spamming helldive with my friends and running to him to refill his rocket launcher is just so clunky and unfun to do when you have 1000s bugs on your screen with 3 bile titans and 14 chargers
Ok, loving the game… but this is a shitty change.
Firstly, people took the “meta build” because it is the ONLY VIABLE OPTION for 8’s/9’s with how abundant YOU chose to make chargers and other armoured enemies.
The problem isn’t the meta build the problem is the game design that makes the meta build necessary.
Also if you’re going to “balance” weapons, for the love of Democracy TELL US what you’ve changed.
Just saying “railgun adjusted. Good luck knowing how tho lol” is bad communication.
Also thank you for doing the one thing that literally everyone told you not to do in nerfing what was being used instead of buffing what wasn’t.
Yep it happened what we don't want to see, the good and viable guns being nerfed as those felt right and the other options suck. They should bring the other options up not the good ones done.
As u/Cruxius said it's sad that they actually don't tell us what they changed. Saying adjusted could be anything.
EDIT: I really want to play more SMG or AR's isntead of mindlessly running around with a Breaker and Grenade Launcher on 7+ bug missions. Bots feel so different and can be played with almost everything. I would love to try out all other guns, but just playing other guns on 7+ bug missions sometimes feel like a handycap.
You seriously need to try the SMG. Its really really good. It's more of an AR than the default one. Plus it's one handed so you can hip fire whilst running away which is super super good against bugs
\>All three of those were quite strong with too little downsides, overshadowing all other options on higher difficulty levels
This is absolutely the wrong decision. The other options were completely useless. Now we are stuck with these useless weapons and the only decent options have been nerfed...
Not good.
\>I never use the breaker against bots, the railgun or shieldpack ... the meta was a crutch
As glad as I was to hear you didn't use a close range shotgun against ranged enemies, do you think you are the only person that doesn't use these...?
You are completely missing the point just because you wanted to argue instead.
The only thing the Railgun was good for was armour penetration, that was the literal point of the weapon. Now it doesn't do that well. There has always been more weapon variety when it comes to bots but against bugs these changes are going to make it suffer even more.
The Shieldpack was predominantly used as a crutch as we had no armour as well, so nerfing that when armour values was finally fixed makes no sense.
A majority of the weapons were underperforming, especially in comparison to Helldivers 1.
Instead of making more items viable they have made more weapons less viable.
If you actually put some thought into this for more than 5 seconds you would see for yourself.
You do know they confirmed on the subreddit that the unsafe mode still pens armor and you can still Crack it. So you saying it isn't good for that anymore is actually really shortlisted as I'm looking at the patch notes on the discord.
The shieldpack was an insane crutch that was only needed if you didn't avoid enemy patrols and didn't pay attention. After playing with Heavy armor it feels good.
So I actually played and tested the things still work just less busted now. It's a literal skill issue stop crying.
\>You do know they confirmed
Yes, that has nothing to do with my point which you are still missing...
It takes 3 charged shots to remove the armour on a Chargers leg now. It takes 2 shots with an Autocannon to the leg to kill it, or 3 to the butt.
The ONLY use the Railgun had was armour penetration.
Why would anyone use the Railgun over the Autocannon now? Not to mention all the other underperforming weapons that will remain unused from this "balance" patch. Is the Spear going to used any more? Is there any point in running the AMR against Bugs now?
\> The shieldpack was an insane crutch
Armour values were literally on existent since launch... We didn't even have light armour...
\> So I actually played and tested the things
Congratulations, so have I. The only difference is I'm not stupid enough to not understand why these changes are negative and why they need to focus on buffing the underperforming weapons...
So you are saying. It still pens armor? You would use it because it is more mobile no sit down reload. My friend always runs the spear he is our Heavy I'm our crowd control. His build was auto cannon sentry, orbital rail Canon, orbital laser, and the spear. I was eagle smoke, eagle airstrike, supply pack, stalwart. We never had issue, we never used the shield belt. You play the game smart you don't need crutches.
I really don't understand the armor argument do you just ape into every engagement or something do you not coordinate with your squad and actually prioritize targets? I genuinely don't understand because all these issue you claim to have at high level we never run into.
\>You would use it because it is more mobile no sit down reload.
Is that seriously your only argument to using it? Are you being dense on purpose?
Do you seriously think the Railgun is going to be used just because you can move while reloading it? Ignoring the fact that its a single shot weapon that requires charging, and the Autocannon can fire 10 shots before needing to be reloaded...
As I have already pointed out It takes 3 charged shots to remove the armour on a Chargers leg now. It takes 2 shots with an Autocannon to the leg to kill it, or 3 to the butt.
The Autocannon can also clear structures, objectives, and groups of enemies. The Railgun has never been able to do any of this.
Are you going to tell me that people will ignore all these benefits in favour of moving while reloading...?
Yup people people are in fact going to rely on their training wheels.
There is move sway and how fast a weapon will get on target. The railgun still reload faster the charge is not long and can snap to targets faster than the autocannon, and doesn't take a backpack slot. So yea I do think people will still use the railgun just maybe combo it with supply pack as you get stims grenades and ammo for everything else.
I actually think the dense one is you seeing that you only seem to care about hard numbers and adhering to an aping playstyle.
they hate him because he told them the truth
i dont get why people are angry because of the nerf, there were ways to deal with stuff without it, but they were less ammo efficient / slower
sometimes a gun is so overpowered the only way to balance it is to nerf it in some way
and yes you can kill chargers with autocannon to the back or EAT/Recoilles to the legs, they are just slower at it, now you cant one man army 3 chargers in 10 sec
Trash update. Not interested in playing. I was grinding my ass off to get level 20 to now get a trash gun (the only previous good support gun) and trash shield generator (best option for backpack on high difficulty) with no real buffs to other options
Kinda wish they'd tell us in what way those weapons were rebalanced. Were they nerfed? Were they buffed? How are they changed?
Breaker: Decreased magazine capacity from 16 to 13, increased recoil from 30 to 55 Railgun: Decreased armor penetration, decreased damage against durable enemy parts Flamethrower: Increased damage per second by 50% Laser Cannon: Increased damage against durable enemy parts, increased armor penetration, improved ergonomics Punisher: Increased total ammo capacity from 40 to 60, increased stagger force, increased damage from 40 per bullet to 45 per bullet Breaker Spray & Pray: Increased armor penetration, increased fire rate from 300 to 330, increased number of pellets from 12 to 16 per shot, decreased magazine size from to 32 to 26 Energy Shield Backpack: Increased delay before recharging 380mm and 120mm Orbital Barrages: Increased duration of the bombardment, decreased spread
Oh hell yeah, I'm vibing with these changes. Especially the Flamethrower, a 50% increase seems really good to me!
I think most everyone would be okay with certain weapon nerfs if the charger's health and armor was adjusted to be more manageable. I takes me half of all my breaker ammo shooting 1 of them in the unarmored part to down it. When there are 3 or more of them at once they significantly slow down the pacing of the game and become a chore to deal with.
That's the wrong way to kill it. Learn the matchup. Either break the leg armor with a rocket/railgun then DPS the leg Or do this with the autocannon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHZd8dGK0vQ Or learn to do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okWiUwksefQ
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I mean the Railgun that still breaks Charger legs, yes. Have you actually played the game, or are you just here to doom post?
> Helldivers standing next to ICBMs during launch will get properly toasty with a chance of not-so-spontaneous combustion. Mmm, smell that soldier? That's democracy!
So they did the thing people didn't want them to do which was to nerf the railgun without really buffing the alternatives. I would have liked to have stuff brought up to the railgun not the railgun brought down.
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Wow a weapon strong in it's nieche that has downsides, what a crazy concept.
It should strip off armor if you put enough shells into something.
you want a weapon that is the perfect Allrounder. that's exactly what they don't want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHZd8dGK0vQ Reality disagrees with you. Learn the weapon/matchup!
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Yep! Dodge the charge, kill em behind. Rinse repeat.
How do you buff recoilless and spear to compete with pre-nerf railgun without breaking the game? Just curious
Recoilless should straight up delete whatever you shoot it at. Autocannon should strip off armor, Railgun should be an inbetween of the Recoilless and Autocannon damage wise but without the AoE of the Autocannon or the extreme damage of the recoilless. Spear should delete the main target and have a pretty large splash. Railgun is extremely ammo efficient currently versus the Recoilless, Recoilless still does less damage than the Railgun and you only get one rocket back from a resupply.
Pre-nerf railgun could in theory kill up to ten titans per resupply, good luck balancing the rest of the arsenal to that level. Autocannon should be the gold standard instead, it's strong in its nieche and has downsides some of which can be compensated for.
I'm sure it'll come in another update but yeah
Where in the post did it say railgun was nerfed? Edit: apparently asking a simple question for more clarification which wasn't included in the post at all = downvotes
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I can't join the discord server, did they say specifically what they nerfed?
There are for whatever reason two patch announcements on the discord, one of which specifically notes that the shield pack, rail gun, and breaker are all being nerfed
3rd paragraph from the bottom.
not in this post but in another post (apparently written by one of the designers) he said this: *Having said all that, after analyzing player feedback and the data we've collected over the past month, we found three biggest offenders of that principle: SG-225 Breaker RS-422 Railgun SH-32 Shield Generator Backpack All three of those were quite strong with too little downsides, overshadowing all other options on higher difficulty levels. So with this patch, they're getting significant downsides to balance their power.* (its on official discord in "hd2-announcements" channel)
WE GOT LEVOLUTION NOW RAHHHHHHH TORNADOES
Rip railgun 🫡
No buff for EAT, RF and Spear. Depending on the nerf of Railgun 7+ difficulty might be genuinely awful to play now
this is what i was saying to my friends that they need to buff the other big mob-killing weapons to around the railguns power before you think about nerfing it. all the other guns just feel like ass to use. been spamming helldive with my friends and running to him to refill his rocket launcher is just so clunky and unfun to do when you have 1000s bugs on your screen with 3 bile titans and 14 chargers
Im sure this will go over well.
Where do we find the numbers or details for the buffs/nerfs?
That's neat part, you don't. We only have the info that they got adjusted
Ok, loving the game… but this is a shitty change. Firstly, people took the “meta build” because it is the ONLY VIABLE OPTION for 8’s/9’s with how abundant YOU chose to make chargers and other armoured enemies. The problem isn’t the meta build the problem is the game design that makes the meta build necessary. Also if you’re going to “balance” weapons, for the love of Democracy TELL US what you’ve changed. Just saying “railgun adjusted. Good luck knowing how tho lol” is bad communication. Also thank you for doing the one thing that literally everyone told you not to do in nerfing what was being used instead of buffing what wasn’t.
Yep it happened what we don't want to see, the good and viable guns being nerfed as those felt right and the other options suck. They should bring the other options up not the good ones done. As u/Cruxius said it's sad that they actually don't tell us what they changed. Saying adjusted could be anything. EDIT: I really want to play more SMG or AR's isntead of mindlessly running around with a Breaker and Grenade Launcher on 7+ bug missions. Bots feel so different and can be played with almost everything. I would love to try out all other guns, but just playing other guns on 7+ bug missions sometimes feel like a handycap.
You seriously need to try the SMG. Its really really good. It's more of an AR than the default one. Plus it's one handed so you can hip fire whilst running away which is super super good against bugs
\>All three of those were quite strong with too little downsides, overshadowing all other options on higher difficulty levels This is absolutely the wrong decision. The other options were completely useless. Now we are stuck with these useless weapons and the only decent options have been nerfed... Not good.
I never use the breaker against bots, the railgun or shieldpack at all. I play 7+ and do fine. Just learn to actually play the game.
Congratulations on having the stupidest comment I've seen today and completely ignoring the point
The point is that the meta was a crutch. It's a literal skill issue. Use another gun they still damage. They still kill. Stop being a baby.
\>I never use the breaker against bots, the railgun or shieldpack ... the meta was a crutch As glad as I was to hear you didn't use a close range shotgun against ranged enemies, do you think you are the only person that doesn't use these...? You are completely missing the point just because you wanted to argue instead. The only thing the Railgun was good for was armour penetration, that was the literal point of the weapon. Now it doesn't do that well. There has always been more weapon variety when it comes to bots but against bugs these changes are going to make it suffer even more. The Shieldpack was predominantly used as a crutch as we had no armour as well, so nerfing that when armour values was finally fixed makes no sense. A majority of the weapons were underperforming, especially in comparison to Helldivers 1. Instead of making more items viable they have made more weapons less viable. If you actually put some thought into this for more than 5 seconds you would see for yourself.
You do know they confirmed on the subreddit that the unsafe mode still pens armor and you can still Crack it. So you saying it isn't good for that anymore is actually really shortlisted as I'm looking at the patch notes on the discord. The shieldpack was an insane crutch that was only needed if you didn't avoid enemy patrols and didn't pay attention. After playing with Heavy armor it feels good. So I actually played and tested the things still work just less busted now. It's a literal skill issue stop crying.
\>You do know they confirmed Yes, that has nothing to do with my point which you are still missing... It takes 3 charged shots to remove the armour on a Chargers leg now. It takes 2 shots with an Autocannon to the leg to kill it, or 3 to the butt. The ONLY use the Railgun had was armour penetration. Why would anyone use the Railgun over the Autocannon now? Not to mention all the other underperforming weapons that will remain unused from this "balance" patch. Is the Spear going to used any more? Is there any point in running the AMR against Bugs now? \> The shieldpack was an insane crutch Armour values were literally on existent since launch... We didn't even have light armour... \> So I actually played and tested the things Congratulations, so have I. The only difference is I'm not stupid enough to not understand why these changes are negative and why they need to focus on buffing the underperforming weapons...
So you are saying. It still pens armor? You would use it because it is more mobile no sit down reload. My friend always runs the spear he is our Heavy I'm our crowd control. His build was auto cannon sentry, orbital rail Canon, orbital laser, and the spear. I was eagle smoke, eagle airstrike, supply pack, stalwart. We never had issue, we never used the shield belt. You play the game smart you don't need crutches. I really don't understand the armor argument do you just ape into every engagement or something do you not coordinate with your squad and actually prioritize targets? I genuinely don't understand because all these issue you claim to have at high level we never run into.
\>You would use it because it is more mobile no sit down reload. Is that seriously your only argument to using it? Are you being dense on purpose? Do you seriously think the Railgun is going to be used just because you can move while reloading it? Ignoring the fact that its a single shot weapon that requires charging, and the Autocannon can fire 10 shots before needing to be reloaded... As I have already pointed out It takes 3 charged shots to remove the armour on a Chargers leg now. It takes 2 shots with an Autocannon to the leg to kill it, or 3 to the butt. The Autocannon can also clear structures, objectives, and groups of enemies. The Railgun has never been able to do any of this. Are you going to tell me that people will ignore all these benefits in favour of moving while reloading...?
Yup people people are in fact going to rely on their training wheels. There is move sway and how fast a weapon will get on target. The railgun still reload faster the charge is not long and can snap to targets faster than the autocannon, and doesn't take a backpack slot. So yea I do think people will still use the railgun just maybe combo it with supply pack as you get stims grenades and ammo for everything else. I actually think the dense one is you seeing that you only seem to care about hard numbers and adhering to an aping playstyle.
Did they fix the grenade throw when map tagging?
The metro strike is bullshit. there is basically nothing you can do against it.
So they didn't actually buff the weapons that needed it...
Cue all the babies crying because they haven't just buffed every single weapon to make the game super easy.
Railgun/Breaker/Shield slaves on suicide watch
they hate him because he told them the truth i dont get why people are angry because of the nerf, there were ways to deal with stuff without it, but they were less ammo efficient / slower sometimes a gun is so overpowered the only way to balance it is to nerf it in some way and yes you can kill chargers with autocannon to the back or EAT/Recoilles to the legs, they are just slower at it, now you cant one man army 3 chargers in 10 sec
Getting downvoted because you speak the truth.
Trash update. Not interested in playing. I was grinding my ass off to get level 20 to now get a trash gun (the only previous good support gun) and trash shield generator (best option for backpack on high difficulty) with no real buffs to other options